How to play this ?

Posted by: Carion

How to play this ? - 02/26/13 09:54 AM

I would be glad anyone could give me a tip that what kind of fingering should be used for these two measures. for treble clef bar (for example 12234...)

tempo is 180



Posted by: Derulux

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 10:09 AM

180 is nuts. What is this from?

If you want to play it with one hand, I think this is probably the best bet:
4321 3213 4321 3213
4321 3212 4321 3212

If this repeats many more times, you may take advantage of the whole note in the bass and split the work between the right and left hands (recommend sostenuto pedal):

RH232 LH2 RH3 LH2 RH2 LH2 | R3 L2 R2 L2 R3 L2 R2 L2
RH321 (alt)

Takes a little getting used to, but once you do, it's pretty easy and helps prevent fatigue in the long run. Only took me a couple minutes to get this up to tempo.
Posted by: Carion

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 10:14 AM

It is only played once and it is supposed to play with one hand. The song is Cirnos perfect math class. Here is a good performance of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y7SI6BJc2Y

measure 45 around 0:57
Posted by: Carion

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 10:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Derulux


If you want to play it with one hand, I think this is probably the best bet:
4321 3213 4321 3213
4321 3212 4321 3212



Why is there fingering for 32 notes even tough there is 26 notes on the sheet? I'm confused.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 10:58 AM

It's two different options for the same thing.

Originally Posted By: Carion
Originally Posted By: Derulux


If you want to play it with one hand, I think this is probably the best bet:
4321 3213 4321 3213
4321 3212 4321 3212



Why is there fingering for 32 notes even tough there is 26 notes on the sheet? I'm confused.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 06:17 PM

Thanks Kreisler. smile I guess I didn't make it as clear as I normally do.

Originally Posted By: Carion
It is only played once and it is supposed to play with one hand. The song is Cirnos perfect math class. Here is a good performance of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y7SI6BJc2Y

measure 45 around 0:57

I don't fall into the, "It's supposed to be done this way," crowd. I believe you should play it whatever way you can. If you have to redistribute because you can't play repeated notes quite that fast, then do it. The person in the video uses the top fingering I suggested, I believe, but you can hear it is not very clear in the performance. (Could be the upright he's playing on.. you really need a grand's action for this kind of speed.)

Interesting piece. Very fast, but I did like some of the rhythmic stuff. Is this from a video game?
Posted by: adak

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 06:32 PM

newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?
Posted by: ando

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: adak
newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?


Because it's really, really fast! You have to change fingers for such fast repetitions.
Posted by: Damon

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Derulux

4321 3213 4321 3213
4321 3212 4321 3212


or:

4321 4323 4321 4323

or:

3214 3212 3214 3212
Posted by: adak

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?


Because it's really, really fast! You have to change fingers for such fast repetitions.


Can you not use the same finger pressed rapidly? It will be even faster than moving between fingers.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: adak
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?


Because it's really, really fast! You have to change fingers for such fast repetitions.


Can you not use the same finger pressed rapidly? It will be even faster than moving between fingers.


Have a look at this, and try doing the repeated notes at that speed with one finger...
http://youtu.be/wjghYFgt8Zk
Posted by: pianogirl87

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 08:51 PM

Not every fingering suggested is going to work for every person. You have some good suggestions from various users here (and I'd strongly suggest not using the same fingers). Find one that works for your technique personally. I actually like the idea of using multiple hands for this one, as long as you're quick with the sostenuto pedal and jumping two octaves with the left hand.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Derulux

4321 3213 4321 3213
4321 3212 4321 3212


or:

4321 4323 4321 4323

or:

3214 3212 3214 3212

Yeah, there's a hundred variations easily. I know I didn't do anything special by pointing out the most common ones. smile
Posted by: ando

Re: How to play this ? - 02/26/13 10:45 PM

Originally Posted By: adak
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?


Because it's really, really fast! You have to change fingers for such fast repetitions.


Can you not use the same finger pressed rapidly? It will be even faster than moving between fingers.


No, it really isn't faster - far from it. I suspect you aren't at the stage where you could perform a fast tremolo repetition, but you could try this: use a finger from each hand and play a single note as fast as you can alternating between left and right hands. Now compare that to using a single finger from one hand. You will find using two fingers in this way increases the repetition speed dramatically. Somebody who can use 3 or 4 fingers efficiently will be able to repeat so fast, it is limited only by the speed of the action mechanism. A single finger will not even outpace an upright piano action which isn't capable of fast repeats.
Posted by: BruceD

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: adak
newbie question here: why not go with 1111 1112 3333 3334 5555 555 455 since it is the most obvious finger setup?


Because it's really, really fast! You have to change fingers for such fast repetitions.


Can you not use the same finger pressed rapidly? It will be even faster than moving between fingers.


No, it really isn't faster - far from it. [...]


To say nothing of the fact that trying to play rapidly repeated notes with one finger invariably and dramatically increases the tension in the hand/arm to the degree that fatigue sets in in short order and to continue playing rapidly repeated notes becomes nearly impossible.

The whole point of using alternating fingers in playing repeated notes is to maintain the relaxation necessary for speed.

Regards,
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 10:24 AM

I wonder if Argerich could play that Scarlatti just as beautifully on something other than a concert-prepped top-level instrument. Well, she probably can, but probably also has such an instrument at home.

I can't on mine, but I wonder if this is the kind of thing where it's 50% pianist skill and 50% action conditioning.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
I wonder if Argerich could play that Scarlatti just as beautifully on something other than a concert-prepped top-level instrument. Well, she probably can, but probably also has such an instrument at home.

I can't on mine, but I wonder if this is the kind of thing where it's 50% pianist skill and 50% action conditioning.

I would say it's one of those cases where it's 100% pianist's skill, but if you're not playing on a top-level instrument, you may only hear 70% of the pianist's skill or less..
Posted by: ando

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 01:25 PM

Originally Posted By: RealPlayer


I can't on mine, but I wonder if this is the kind of thing where it's 50% pianist skill and 50% action conditioning.


It's impossible to play without a good action - true, but to get that sort of speed, control and evenness in a piece like that takes a true virtuoso like Argerich.
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 01:26 PM

Re: Derulux: That's true enough. Of course, the proof is in what you hear, so a 70% successful result will be regarded as unsuccessful.

It is amazing pianists can play that music at all, as it was composed to exploit the possibilities of the harpsichord. Amazing in the same way as a big sedan winning the Indy 500.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: How to play this ? - 02/27/13 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: RealPlayer
Re: Derulux: That's true enough. Of course, the proof is in what you hear, so a 70% successful performance will be regarded as unsuccessful.

It is amazing pianists can play that music at all, as it was composed to exploit the possibilities of the harpsichord. Amazing in the same way as a big sedan winning the Indy 500.

Get enough torque to the wheels and anything is possible. wink