2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread

Posted by: Brendan

2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 12:30 AM

The 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition


Please use this thread for all discussion related to the competition, as per our 2009 Megathread. This includes: reviews, predictions, discussion on the performers and their repertoire, pictures, complaints about parking, etc.


FAQ

When and where does the competition take place?


This installment of the VCIPC will be held in Fort Worth, TX from May 24nd - June 9th. As always, we're all interested to hear "live" reports from any PW people who plan on attending the competition. For a complete schedule, click HERE.


Who are the competitors in this illustrious event, and how many times will I have to sit through the Liszt Sonata?

Find a complete list of the contestants and their repertoire, click HERE. Most of the competitors have already won major international competitions (Montreal, Queen Elizabeth, Leeds, etc.), so it's safe to say that it will be a bloodbath. There is only one returning candidate from the 2009 competition - Allesandro Deljavan.

...and while we're relatively light on the Liszt Sonata this time, there are more Rach 3s than you can shake a captive David Helfgott at.


Where's the live stream? I want to make fun of people who have memory lapses!

Info on the webcast can be found HERE. The quality and connection were somewhat spotty last time, so here's hoping that they will be able to support the bandwidth demands.

KTCU's also had an audio-only stream for the 2009 competition: http://www.ktcu.tcu.edu/


What's at stake, aside from internet stardom?

The winner receives three years of management (covering travel), a CD recording, lots of pretty clothes, and a $50k cash prize (increased from $20k in previous editions). Read all about the prizes HERE. The Cliburn's cash award for first prize is now on par with other major international competitions (namely the Cleveland, who will also present their competition this summer with several repeat offenders) and offers an extensive concert schedule for the winner. The total prize amount is valued at over $1 million (cue Dr. Evil laugh).


Competitions are stupid and arbitrary! My favorite competitor was eliminated after the first round! I hate you, Dad!

Yes, they are, and many wonderful pianists were culled in the paper round (not to mention the multi-city screening auditions). However, sometimes people who DON'T win end up getting more exposure than those who do. Read about the esteemed and discerning panel of judges for the competition HERE.


I want to read reviews and find out what kind of food and which movies each competitor likes!

Well then, why are you reading this stupid megathread?!?!? Click HERE before Congress passes CISPA!


That's about it. I'll start off the discussion with my own prediction for this year's results:

1st Prize - Beatrice Rana
2nd Prize - Sean Chen
3rd Prize - Nikolay Khozyainov

Other finalists: Allesandro Taverna, Eric Zuber, Yury Favorin

Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 12:35 AM

Nice! thumb

The only competitor I've heard of is one who didn't make your 'cut,' Jayson Gillham -- not sure exactly from where but I know that I did listen to some performances of his on youtube, maybe from the last Chopin Competition, and I was extremely impressed.

So what the heck, I'll pick him to make the finals. smile

If there are some who are better than him, it's a great field. Which I'm sure it is anyway.

(edit) .....went to youtube and first thing of his that came up was his Chopin Barcarolle from that Chopin Competition. It's beautiful.
I'm be comfortable putting a few shillings on him.
Posted by: ChopinAddict

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Nice! thumb
The only competitor I've heard of is one who didn't make your 'cut,' Jayson Gillham


You don't know Nikolay? shocked
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm be comfortable putting a few shillings on him.

You're be comfortable? grin

And Shillings - what are those all about? ha
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
You're be comfortable? grin

Yes, I'm very be. grin

Quote:
And Shillings - what are those all about? ha

I figured that's maybe what they have in Australia, or else close enough.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:31 AM

The Australian Dollar is about equal to a US dollar. It's slightly more. grin
Posted by: ChopinAddict

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:35 AM

Mark once said that he lived in the 19th century, so he might have the shillings from there. grin
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:36 AM

Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Mark once said that he lived in the 19th century....

No -- I think I said I live in the 19th century! ha
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Mark once said that he lived in the 19th century....

No -- I think I said I live in the 19th century! ha

I want to hear Chopin improvise.
Posted by: ChopinAddict

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:38 AM

Well, I live in the past too then... smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 02:39 AM

I live in the future!
Posted by: currawong

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathr - 05/17/13 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And Shillings - what are those all about? ha
I figured that's maybe what they have in Australia, or else close enough.
We went decimal nearly 50 years ago. ha
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathr - 05/17/13 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
And Shillings - what are those all about? ha
I figured that's maybe what they have in Australia, or else close enough.
We went decimal nearly 50 years ago. ha

(See above posts for what year I'm in.)


On a more serious note, we ought to mention.....

This is the first Cliburn Competition since Van Cliburn's passing, and the event is being dedicated to him. In a way of course they all have been dedicated to Van Cliburn, but this one is specially dedicated.
Posted by: D. S. F.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 03:13 AM

I guess judges will be sick of Petrushka by the end of this. I know of Yuri Favorin and Vadym Kholodenko, and they're great. I feel I should know Claire Huangci, but I may be getting her mixed of with someone else. I LOVE Alessandro Taverna's repertoire! That's my kind of entry.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 11:39 AM

No sh*t, another piano competition coming up? Who would have thought. Having a look at the programs of some of the candidates, there's also one thing that surprises me! Some of them are playing the same rep they've been playing for years and years and years! (more than 10 years in some cases, and I can of course not comment on every single candidate) How can this be!

Here's a thoughtful article on competitions, if anyone's interested: http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/BlogEntry/308890,sydney-international-piano-competition-a-pianist-speaks-out.aspx
Posted by: bennevis

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 12:38 PM

It's a pity that so many pianists do the circuit of piano competitions for several years until (or if, until they get too old to enter...) they win the first prize, which presumably would set them on the career path to stardom.

There are so many names here familiar from several international competitions - including finishing in the top three.

Let's not forget that Mitsuko Uchida and Louis Lortie didn't even win in Leeds (2nd and 4th respectively), yet were able to embark on very successful careers following that....
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
No sh*t, another piano competition coming up? Who would have thought. Having a look at the programs of some of the candidates, there's also one thing that surprises me! Some of them are playing the same rep they've been playing for years and years and years! (more than 10 years in some cases, and I can of course not comment on every single candidate) How can this be!

Here's a thoughtful article on competitions, if anyone's interested: http://www.limelightmagazine.com.au/BlogEntry/308890,sydney-international-piano-competition-a-pianist-speaks-out.aspx


There's one candidate who (very obviously) hasn't leaned a new program in a while. Sad, IMO.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: D. S. F.
I LOVE Alessandro Taverna's repertoire! That's my kind of entry.


Me too! He's a great pianist and I have always enjoyed his playing.

I was also excited to see that Sean Chen originally programmed Bartok 2 for his finals concert but has since changed it to Rach 3. He nailed it at APA a few weeks ago.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 03:50 PM

The majority of the programs are disappointingly predictable, and of the few off-course selections, I was a little dismayed that Grieg Waltzes would be programmed at this level. Was that a joke? The Grieg A minor waltz can be played by 2nd-year beginners.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
The majority of the programs are disappointingly predictable, and of the few off-course selections, I was a little dismayed that Grieg Waltzes would be programmed at this level. Was that a joke? The Grieg A minor waltz can be played by 2nd-year beginners.

Actually I'm surprised you'd say that last part in view of your first part!

I would view the programming of something like the Grieg pieces with very great interest -- because of what you said, both at the beginning of your post and the end. It's interesting because:

-- it's very unusual to do so
-- the fact that the pieces are so 'simple' means (presumably) that the contestant feels that he/she (don't even know who it is) has something very special to offer with them, and it'll be interesting to find out.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 04:07 PM

I was also happy to see some Grieg waltzes thrown in there. And inbetween all of the standard war horses, I'm happy to see that there are some pianists doing interesting and lesser played repertoire. Look through the programs - we have Medtner, Debussy etudes, Busoni, Scriabin 10, heck, someone is doing a...Purcell suite?! Here's a short list of candidates whose programs appealed to me:

Alezey chernow, sean chen, luca buratto, jayson gillham, alessandro taverna, scipione sangiovanni, tomoki sakata
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 04:12 PM

How would you feel if somebody programmed Fur Elise? Or, closer to the level of the Grieg waltzes, C.P.E. Bach's Solfeggieto?
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
There's one candidate who (very obviously) hasn't leaned a new program in a while. Sad, IMO.

Well, I wonder for how many candidates that is true, really. I would guess it goes for quite a few of these pianists.


Looking at it from another viewpoint, though, I understand if someone decides to be very picky with competition repertoire provided that this musician keeps him/herself busy with a lot of other repertoire and projects outside of the competition. Two fairly young cellists I know, both winners of some of the most prestigious cello competitions in the world, entered most of their competitions playing the very same repertoire, but at the same time they were busy doing all sorts of other projects inbetween competitions. That's a healthy way of approaching competitions, IMO. But these pianists that just go from one competition to the next playing the same stuff....why, why?
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Purcell suite?!

I saw that. I didn't know it, so I looked it up on Youtube. Not the most interesting pieces, to say the least.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
How would you feel if somebody programmed Fur Elise? Or, closer to the level of the Grieg waltzes, C.P.E. Bach's Solfeggieto?

As far as I remember, the last winner of the Honens competition included both Kinderszenen and the Moonlight sonata in his program. Programming is a matter of taste. I don't understand why it would be a problem that someone goes for doing a few short and easy pieces inbetween the war horses. Would anyone consider Gaspard, Petrushka and Prok 7 in one go to be a good program...?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
How would you feel if somebody programmed Fur Elise? Or, closer to the level of the Grieg waltzes, C.P.E. Bach's Solfeggieto?

I'm surprised you need to ask!!

(Same answer as in that last post.)

It would be different if it were in an amateur competition or some such. But for this.....to me it absolutely means what I said.
At least to me. smile
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 07:51 PM

If the Grieg Waltzes are the ones from his Lyric Pieces(I can think of only two or three in that collection) I think this is a bizarre choice. There are plenty of non virtuoso works are really great music and musical challenges(Chopin Mazurkas, Brahms 116-119, Schumann Kinderscenen, etc.) so why program works like the Grieg which are very minor pieces even among his Lyric Pieces? Even from just a timing point of view, why would one include several pieces, each of around one minute length, in such a major competition?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/17/13 08:02 PM

If the Grieg Waltzes are the ones from his Lyric Pieces(I can think of only two or three in that collection), I think this is a bizarre choice. There are plenty of non virtuoso works that are really great music and great musical challenges(Chopin Mazurkas, Brahms 116-119, Schumann Kinderscenen, etc.) so why program works like the Grieg which are very minor pieces even among his Lyric Pieces? Even from just a timing point of view, why would one include several pieces, each of around two minutes long, in such a major competition?

My guess is that these are not the well known Waltzes from the Lyric Pieces.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 12:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
-- it's very unusual to do so
-- the fact that the pieces are so 'simple' means (presumably) that the contestant feels that he/she (don't even know who it is) has something very special to offer with them, and it'll be interesting to find out.


1) Just because it's unusual doesn't mean you should program Grieg waltzes.

2) Seriously? Do you know which waltzes have been programmed? Take a look at those, and then get back to me.

I think the Grieg is programmed more for its shock value than anything else. I welcome unusual programming, but my main objection is that there are 10,000 other pieces far, far, far more worthy to be programmed for such a competition. For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
1) Just because it's unusual doesn't mean you should program Grieg waltzes.

Hey, you're not paying attention! grin

The reason I said that -- the reason, the only reason! (and I so indicated in that post) -- was because you had said:

Quote:
The majority of the programs are disappointingly predictable....

....and it was in reference to that.
Of course I didn't mean that this in itself is a justification to program something (although I agree with you that it is of value) -- and I wouldn't have indicated it as a sole reason (and didn't).

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
2) Seriously? Do you know which waltzes have been programmed?

No. I would mean that other reason with regard to any pieces of the nature that you described. It would be applicable if the programmed pieces were from "Teaching Little Fingers to Play."

All I'm saying, really, is that the candidate has something interesting in mind and it will be interesting to see how it comes off. I realize that you don't see it that way (to say the least) grin but I'm not sure what you are meaning to imply about it. Are you saying that the candidate doesn't have any more-challenging pieces in his/her repertoire? I wouldn't think so, because that's impossible. Do you mean that he/she is stupid, or isn't thinking? That doesn't seem very possible either -- not because nobody would be capable of that but because such a stupid or negligent applicant would never have been admitted to the competition. (Right?) I'm willing to see it in some way other than that it's an interesting repertoire choice, but it would have to be something plausible, and I can't see it.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 02:01 AM

P.S. OK -- grin -- I got curious enough to go and see exactly who this is, what the Grieg pieces are, and what's the person's other repertoire.

AZN, I could not disagree with you more. I'll take it further: You're being flat-out unfair to the contestant, and you're just wrong when you say stuff like "there are 10,000 other pieces far, far, far more worthy to be programmed for such a competition. For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself."

I assume the person you're talking about is Alexey Chernov. I went and listened to the pieces on YouTube. I have to disagree with your characterizing them as being so "easy." Sure, 'the notes' are easy -- but the notes of many challenging pieces are easy. Would you say that someone who plays Bach's 1st Prelude in a competition is mocking it? Or Chopin's A minor Waltz from Op. 34? Playing these Grieg pieces in a routine, ho-hum way would be easy, but there is a whole world of possibility to give them the needed "lilts," and to make them fresh and interesting. I'd bet my bippy that Chernov is intending to do that, and that he will.

And anyway, again assuming that you mean him, I simply cannot make any sense of what you said in view of the rest of his repertoire. Here is his entire 1st round:

Preliminary Recital, Phase I
BACH Toccata in G Minor, BWV 915
SCRIABIN Three Études, op. 65
RAVEL Gaspard de la nuit

Preliminary Recital, Phase II
BEETHOVEN Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, op. 111
LIGETI Étude VI: Automne à Varsovie
GRIEG Waltz in A Minor, op. 12, no. 2
Waltz in E Minor, op. 38, no. 7
Valse-impromptu in E Minor, op. 47, no. 1
LISZT Mephisto Waltz No. 1


Especially placed in a program in such a manner, I think the Grieg pieces are wonderful, whether in a competition or in a regular recital. I am at a total loss to understand your being so intensely negative about it.
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 07:41 AM

http://www.qeimc.be/

Just sayin'...
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 08:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Especially placed in a program in such a manner, I think the Grieg pieces are wonderful, whether in a competition or in a regular recital. I am at a total loss to understand your being so intensely negative about it.


I agree completely. They should be a beautiful diversion from the standard repertoire that most other candidates are performing and I'm looking forward to hearing them.

If you recall the 2005 competition, Roberto Plano's prelim recital offered nothing terribly substantial (Danzas Argentinas, Brahms op. 118, and some Scarlatti Sonatas), but he played with a such amazing artistry and style (compared to other candidates who cluster-bombed their way through Prokofiev 7 and the Liszt Sonata) that passing him on was a no-brainer.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 09:26 AM

I also agree with Mark and Brendan.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 09:53 AM

I think the inclusion of the third Waltz, which is not on the beginner level, at least partially justifies the inclusion of the other waltzes. I would have preferred selecting different Lyric Pieces than the first two waltzes because I think those two are such slight works(both technically and musically) that they don't really belong on a competition recital. I'd guess Chernov chose them so he could have the programming idea of playing three waltzes, but I don't think there is much any pianist can say of significance when dealing with such minor works. I don't think the first two Waltzes really allow the contestant to show much artistry, so substituting more significant Lyric Piece(s) would have been better.

For those who liked the three waltz selections, would you feel the same way if Chernov had chosen the very last Lyric Piece(also a waltz) instead of the Valse-Impromptu?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: wr
http://www.qeimc.be/

Just sayin'...



WOW! Thanks for the link.

I just skimmed through a few semifinal videos and guess what?

I stopped by Boris Giltburg and gave his (another) Liszt Sonata a chance.

Well, I wouldn't have imagined myself listening to whole of it, especially with Giltburg's utmost control in every note he plays. But, to my surprise, I ended up listening till the end. Had he performed the last octaves a bit better, I would have left with utmost satisfaction.
Nevertheless it is worth giving it a try.

http://www.qeimc.be/cgi?usr=sajtcua2fy&a...p;flux=65417999
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:21 AM

There are a ton of Rach 3's, but I see two Brahms 1's, a Brahms 2, and a Rach-Pag in the finals, so I'll try to catch those. Also, I see an Alkan Symphony, Rachmaninoff 1st sonata, Beethoven Op. 101, and Busoni Indianisches Tagebuch, so I'm interested to hear those.

Overall, I'm also intrigued to follow Alessandro Taverna for the entire competition, hehe.

I will try to keep up with this thread very often.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I also agree with Mark and Brendan.


I agreed with Mark before he made his first reply to AZNPiano's first post. Or, should I say, Mark agreed with me, and posted first. crazy laugh
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think the inclusion of the third Waltz, which is not on the beginner level, at least partially justifies the inclusion of the other waltzes. I would have preferred selecting different Lyric Pieces than the first two waltzes because I think those two are such slight works(both technically and musically) that they don't really belong on a competition recital. I'd guess Chernov chose them so he could have the programming idea of playing three waltzes, but I don't think there is much any pianist can say of significance when dealing with such minor works. I don't think the first two Waltzes really allow the contestant to show much artistry, so substituting more significant Lyric Piece(s) would have been better.


thumb thumb thumb
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:37 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think the inclusion of the third Waltz, which is not on the beginner level, at least partially justifies the inclusion of the other waltzes. I would have preferred selecting different Lyric Pieces than the first two waltzes because I think those two are such slight works(both technically and musically) that they don't really belong on a competition recital. I'd guess Chernov chose them so he could have the programming idea of playing three waltzes, but I don't think there is much any pianist can say of significance when dealing with such minor works. I don't think the first two Waltzes really allow the contestant to show much artistry, so substituting more significant Lyric Piece(s) would have been better.


thumb thumb thumb




But is that not the wonder of it? The genius of the selections for this program?? What will the artist do to bring these pieces to the level of the sublime??? Is there some as-yet undiscovered nuance in these pieces to be brought forth the first time in history???????? (I would like to think, maybe so!)

Or, are these pieces simply turkeys, and everyone knows what happens when you try to put lipstick on a turkey?

Oh, the suspense!!! grin
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
....I don't think the first two Waltzes really allow the contestant to show much artistry, so substituting more significant Lyric Piece(s) would have been better.

thumb thumb thumb

The only way I can understand where youse guys are coming from is that either in general you don't value rhythms as much as I do (very possible, since I value them very highly), or (probably doubtful) you don't realize how much performances of such pieces depend on the player's flair, subtlety, and creativity with rhythm. Maybe try this: Just imagine playing the pieces with no flair or lilt -- like, basically metronomically -- and compare it to some good performances that you can find online -- and see if you still think what you just said.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 12:15 PM

Wow, the competition hasn't even started yet and the heated discussions/controversies have already begun. This should be fun.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Wow, the competition hasn't even started yet and the heated discussions/controversies have already begun. This should be fun.

No good!
You have to take sides. ha
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
The only way I can understand where youse guys are coming from is that either in general you don't value rhythms as much as I do (very possible, since I value them very highly), or (probably doubtful) you don't realize how much performances of such pieces depend on the player's flair, subtlety, and creativity with rhythm. Maybe try this: Just imagine playing the pieces with no flair or lilt -- like, basically metronomically -- and compare it to some good performances that you can find online -- and see if you still think what you just said.
As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree. I don't think the first two waltzes allow much creativity, flair, or anything else. I think he just chose them because he wanted to make that little segment unified in some way other than just choosing several more random Lyric Pieces.

I listened to Rachmaninov playing the a minor Waltz. He didn't play it metronomically but OTOH I don't see how anyone could think "What a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in that little piece."
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 01:02 PM

Another Liszt performance from the QEC.
Stunning!

http://www.qeimc.be/cgi?usr=cvm2sm4cjq&a...p;flux=65325996
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree.

No. smile

Let me talk about what I know -- I mean facts -- and then about what's "points of view."

What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition.

As for points of view: You may not feel those things are important, although to tell you the truth I don't see how you couldn't (and yes, that's a point of view). smile
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
As you do so often, you assume your point of view is correct, and act shocked that anyone could disagree.

No. smile

Let me talk about what I know -- I mean facts -- and then about what's "points of view."

What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition.

As for points of view: You may not feel those things are important, although to tell you the truth I don't see how you couldn't (and yes, that's a point of view). smile
Mind bogglingly arrogant.

Again, you assume what is just your opinion(calling it "what I know") is fact. Then more arrogance and a put down with the "You may not feel those things are important" part which only makes sense if the first part(your opinion) is true.

Then(again!) the usual shock("I don't see how you couldn't") that someone might not agree with you.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 02:47 PM

PL and Mark -

As is usually the case gentlemen, you BOTH have valid arguments !!!! grin

Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant - even if he plays all three waltzes extremely well. Given the difficulty of everything else he's programmed, and the brevity of the first two of the three waltzes, in the great scheme of things this may not be a big deal. And just because it is a Grieg "Lyric Piece", there is absolutely nothing lightweight about the Opus 47 No. 1.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: carey

Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant


He gets points from me just by not programming Chopin. grin
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: carey

Ultimately, the programming choice will either work for or against the contestant


He gets points from me just by not programming Chopin. grin


And he loses points from me for not programming Brahms !!! grin
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 03:41 PM

I have disqualified Yekwon Sunwoo. wink
Posted by: Schubertslieder

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 03:56 PM

Grieg is one of my favorite composer so he gets extra bonus points from me.

Anyways, I have never been told by any of my teachers that playing extremely difficult pieces will get me better points. They said properly preparing the pieces and performing well is always better.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 04:44 PM

Some observations.......

Hard to believe that Jury Chairman John Giordano has been involved with the Cliburn since 1973. He certainly carved out a wonderful career for himself in Fort Worth.

In looking at the US schools/conservatories attended by the contestants....Juilliard and Curtis are heavily represented. Other schools included in the mix are the Boston Conservatory (2), New England Conservatory (1), TCU (2 - no surprise there), Yale (1), Peabody (1), Indiana University/South Bend (1) and Principia College (1).
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
....[this that and the other, but nothing about the substance]....
grin

Do you have anything to say about the substance of what we were discussing? Do you really want to say that any of those specifics I stated aren't so? Which ones? I welcome you to give it a try. The "it's just your opinion" stuff that you love so much doesn't apply to everything, you know.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/18/13 11:44 PM

Not to backtrack the conversation to Grieg, but I have to say that the only servicing the other end of the spectrum is probably a worse idea than a few delicacies, e.g.:


Preliminary Recital, Phase I
LISZT Hungarian Rhapsody No. 9
MUSSORGSKY Pictures at an Exhibition

Preliminary Recital, Phase II
WAGNER-LISZT Isoldens Liebestod
BRAHMS Sonata No. 3 in F Minor, op. 5

Semifinal Recital
THEOFANIDIS Birichino
BEETHOVEN Variations and Fugue in E-flat Major, op. 35 ("Eroica")
PROKOFIEV Sonata No. 6 in A Major, op. 82

I love all of those pieces, but that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth and such heavy programming really wears down an audience.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 12:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
[...] I love all of those pieces, but that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth and such heavy programming really wears down an audience.


Exactly! The program itself deserves as much artistic attention as the execution of the individual pieces of which it is comprised. Pacing, flow, texture, dramatic arc, etc., apply to the macro (program) as well as the micro (performance). The program itself should "do" something.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 12:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
....that is some truly awful programming, IMO. There's little breadth....

Nonsense! -- he includes the Theofanidis Birichino! grin


(Everybody has to include the Theofanidis Birichino.)
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Preliminary Recital, Phase I
BACH Toccata in G Minor, BWV 915
SCRIABIN Three Études, op. 65
RAVEL Gaspard de la nuit

Preliminary Recital, Phase II
BEETHOVEN Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, op. 111
LIGETI Étude VI: Automne à Varsovie
GRIEG Waltz in A Minor, op. 12, no. 2
Waltz in E Minor, op. 38, no. 7
Valse-impromptu in E Minor, op. 47, no. 1
LISZT Mephisto Waltz No. 1



I feel like if he took out the Grieg, he'd be left playing only the most ridiculous ball-busters in the entire repertoire. Seriously?! Gaspard + the op.65 etudes in one recital, then Op.111 followed by the Ligeti and Mephisto Waltz in another?
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
What I know: There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition.

If that's the case, there are still thousands upon thousands of pieces more worthy to be programmed AND STILL BE effective at showing all that "musical personality."

Obviously, you belong to the camp that believes one can program anything and everything he/she wants, even for an international competition of such caliber. Fine. That's your stance. My stance remains that the Grieg was programmed for shock value, which may engender more than a few chuckles from the audience when the said repertoire's difficulty cliff becomes so apparent and appalling.
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 07:11 AM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself.


And is there something wrong with that? IMO, competition mocking is a great idea, and competitors should do it at every opportunity (especially if Darth Veda is on the jury and you aren't one of her students).
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 07:28 AM

Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself.


And is there something wrong with that? IMO, competition mocking is a great idea, and competitors should do it at every opportunity (especially if Darth Veda is on the jury and you aren't one of her students).

Of course not! I think mockery is indeed the intention.

It's "The Emperor's New Clothes" for the Van Cliburn Competition.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 08:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
....[this that and the other, but nothing about the substance]....
grin

Do you have anything to say about the substance of what we were discussing? Do you really want to say that any of those specifics I stated aren't so? Which ones? I welcome you to give it a try. The "it's just your opinion" stuff that you love so much doesn't apply to everything, you know.
I use "it's just your opinion" in regard to your posts because you regularly, in literally thousands of posts, express your opinion as if it were fact. Virtually never as "I think". Often just as "I'm right...you're wrong". This is incredibly arrogant.

I didn't even write what you quoted above. The "it's just your opinion" clearly applies to what you wrote, and I already explained several posts ago why I think your specifics are not relevant for the two Grieg Waltzes. Of course, I never said the specifics were never important to any piece which is what you keep implying.

I certainly don't think it's a fact...yes, it's just your opinion that the first two Grieg Waltzes have enough musical substance to allow the performer to show enough in the way of interpretation that makes these appropriate for this competition.

=========================================================

From a single post your wrote to another poster in this thread:

"AZN, I could not disagree with you more.

I'll take it further: You're being flat-out unfair to the contestant, and you're just wrong...

And anyway, again assuming that you mean him, I simply cannot make any sense of what you said...

I am at a total loss to understand your being so intensely negative about it."

More of the same arrogant, repetitive, "I'm right , you're wrong, and I'm shocked anyone could think that way" approach.

Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:57 AM

Originally Posted By: carey

In looking at the US schools/conservatories attended by the contestants....Juilliard and Curtis are heavily represented. Other schools included in the mix are the Boston Conservatory (2), New England Conservatory (1), TCU (2 - no surprise there), Yale (1), Peabody (1), Indiana University/South Bend (1) and Principia College (1).

OK - Let's try this again. Does it strike anyone as a bit odd that Juilliard and Curtis students/grads are so prominently represented?????? smile
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
For somebody to pick something so blatantly easy, it's bordering on mocking the entire competition itself.


And is there something wrong with that? IMO, competition mocking is a great idea, and competitors should do it at every opportunity (especially if Darth Veda is on the jury and you aren't one of her students).

Of course not! I think mockery is indeed the intention.

It's "The Emperor's New Clothes" for the Van Cliburn Competition.


You think that's what Alessandro Taverna is doing? smile
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Damon
I have disqualified Yekwon Sunwoo. wink


and Ruoyu Huang!
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 11:09 AM

An article about the competition from yesterday's NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/arts/m....html?ref=music
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 12:27 PM

Not that I'd like to get too into the Grieg debate - after all, we're discussing roughly 4-5 minutes of music from a recital that, I believe, should last 50-60. However, there are some things worth pointing out. Looking through the program of that round, you clearly see that there's an idea behind of playing various pieces in 3/4 time. The Arietta of 111 ain't no real waltz (and yes, it's notated in 9/16), but both the Grieg pieces and the Liszt are. Given the very heavy-weight stuff in the beginning of the program (111 and Ligeti - by the way, a program combo some of you might have experienced in Jeremy Denk's recent recitals - friend of mine heard him doing this in NY), I totally understand why someone would choose to contrast with some emotionally lighter pieces that showcase what you can do in the smaller format, after a Beethoven sonata that doesn't do any of that but rather shows your abilities in the larger format. Also, what I think it all comes down to is how well this particular pianist will be able to make the program work as a whole. I'm having difficulties understanding how these Grieg pieces (lasting no more than a few minutes!!!) are taken as such a serious issue in a program that includes VERY demanding music by Beethoven, Ligeti and Liszt. After another preliminary recital including Gaspard and Scriabin op 65.

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I listened to Rachmaninov playing the a minor Waltz. He didn't play it metronomically but OTOH I don't see how anyone could think "What a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in that little piece."

Words coming from someone who just called a main PW contributor "mind-bogglingly arrogant" - interesting, as it sounds like words one could describe the above comment with laugh Whether one agrees or not with Rach's interpretations, few would disagree that ANY of his recordings are on anything but the highest artistic level. Considering the general legacy of Rach's recordings, I actually cannot think of a single recording of his that couldn't be described "a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in [insert any piece recorded by Rach here]". I would argue that it goes for this 'little piece' too. Surely this is a more straight-forward piece formally than a Liszt ballade, but the rhythms are handled elegantly (like the opening theme, the subtly rushed triplets in bar 11 and elsewhere), the slight tempo changes (at the theme in bar 10 for example) I found effective, and the lyrical major episode is phrased dreamily and more freely. In short, many of the hallmarks of Sergei's playing can be found in this tiny trifle.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

From a single post your wrote to another poster in this thread:
[...]
More of the same arrogant, repetitive, "I'm right , you're wrong, and I'm shocked anyone could think that way" approach.


Not quite. The entire point Mark made was that in the light of the remaining repertoire played by this candidate, it's hard to understand why anyone could criticize him for having a few 'easy pieces' in the program. He's blazing through Scriabin, late Beethoven, Ligeti, Liszt, and all you guys are complaining about is that there's 4-5 min of "easy stuff" in that 1.5+ hour of intricate piano music? Just as Mark, I am at total loss to understand the reasoning here. Is it because this is a competition and we're supposed to merely demonstrate how many demanding works we can play at the highest possible level? What if not 100% of the candidates feel that way? You may be surprised but I know musicians with top prizes in huge competitions (Rostropovich, tchaikovsky, sao paolo cello competition, leeds etc) who try their utmost to make a competition seem just like any other normal performance they have as performers. Now, let's assume that the poor pianist doing Grieg pieces in the Cliburn competition feels similarly and that he feels that those pieces are just what he needs to provide contrast between other larger works? Why are you looking down at him so badly before you've even heard him play a note?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 12:52 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I listened to Rachmaninov playing the a minor Waltz. He didn't play it metronomically but OTOH I don't see how anyone could think "What a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in that little piece."

Words coming from someone who just called a main PW contributor "mind-bogglingly arrogant" - interesting, as it sounds like words one could describe the above comment with laugh Whether one agrees or not with Rach's interpretations, few would disagree that ANY of his recordings are on anything but the highest artistic level. Considering the general legacy of Rach's recordings, I actually cannot think of a single recording of his that couldn't be described "a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in [insert any piece recorded by Rach here]". I would argue that it goes for this 'little piece' too. Surely this is a more straight-forward piece formally than a Liszt ballade, but the rhythms are handled elegantly (like the opening theme, the subtly rushed triplets in bar 11 and elsewhere), the slight tempo changes (at the theme in bar 10 for example) I found effective, and the lyrical major episode is phrased dreamily and more freely. In short, many of the hallmarks of Sergei's playing can be found in this tiny trifle.
Of course Rachmaninov played this piece well, but I think you've exaggerated what he did with it in terms of how much greatness it reveals.

Arrogance is related to thinking one's opinion is the only correct one or better than someone else's opinion. Arrogance is related to presenting one's opinions are facts. Arrogance is not related to how true or false one's opinions are. My posts virtually always use phrases like "I think" or "IMO" as opposed to the posts of the member I criticized. I am particularly careful to not make it sound like my opinions are facts.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus

From a single post your wrote to another poster in this thread:
[...]
More of the same arrogant, repetitive, "I'm right , you're wrong, and I'm shocked anyone could think that way" approach.


Not quite. The entire point Mark made was that in the light of the remaining repertoire played by this candidate, it's hard to understand why anyone could criticize him for having a few 'easy pieces' in the program. He's blazing through Scriabin, late Beethoven, Ligeti, Liszt, and all you guys are complaining about is that there's 4-5 min of "easy stuff" in that 1.5+ hour of intricate piano music? Just as Mark, I am at total loss to understand the reasoning here. Is it because this is a competition and we're supposed to merely demonstrate how many demanding works we can play at the highest possible level? What if not 100% of the candidates feel that way? You may be surprised but I know musicians with top prizes in huge competitions (Rostropovich, tchaikovsky, sao paolo cello competition, leeds etc) who try their utmost to make a competition seem just like any other normal performance they have as performers. Now, let's assume that the poor pianist doing Grieg pieces in the Cliburn competition feels similarly and that he feels that those pieces are just what he needs to provide contrast between other larger works? Why are you looking down at him so badly before you've even heard him play a note?
It was the tone of his post that I objected to, and I think my description of it is valid. Regarding the first two Grieg Waltzes, you happen to agree with Mark and other posters have agreed with me.

As I said in my first post about this, I certainly don't disagree with your idea of having contrast in between highly demanding or virtuosic pieces. My only objection, for reasons I already mentioned, was to this pianist's choice of pieces to use as contrast.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:07 PM

We'll agree to disagree as so often before and that'll be it. Remember to turn off the computer when those dreadful and pointless 3/4 trifles pop up! Now let's discuss something else than Grieg. What candidate has the coolest hair-style, anyone?
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Regarding the first two Grieg Waltzes, you happen to agree with Mark and other posters have agreed with me.

smile

How cute smile First Mark gets called mind-bogglingly arrogant and then you're making it sound as though I'm the only one taking his side while other posters agreed with you. I'll let PW members speak for themselves

smile

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I also agree with Mark and Brendan.

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I also agree with Mark and Brendan.


I agreed with Mark before he made his first reply to AZNPiano's first post. Or, should I say, Mark agreed with me, and posted first. crazy laugh

Originally Posted By: carey
Given the difficulty of everything else he's programmed, and the brevity of the first two of the three waltzes, in the great scheme of things this may not be a big deal. And just because it is a Grieg "Lyric Piece", there is absolutely nothing lightweight about the Opus 47 No. 1.

Originally Posted By: Schubertslieder
Grieg is one of my favorite composer so he gets extra bonus points from me.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:25 PM

Fnork: Thanks for those posts. smile

My final word on that programming thing (I hope, and I'm sure a few others do too) ha ....is that those who feel the Grieg is ridiculous just don't realize or don't appreciate the truly infinite range of rhythmic treatments that are possible and the levels of skill that can be shown and enjoyed in them -- and that only very high-level performers can do this the greatest justice.

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
An article about the competition from yesterday's NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/arts/m....html?ref=music

Thanks for the link. Very good article, except (IMO) for featuring much of anything from Norman Lebrecht whose writings have never seemed to me to be particularly knowledgeable or well-taken.

To wit grin get a load of this:

"Mr. Lebrecht suggested that one solution might be to allow online audience voting to factor into the judges’ decision."

(Yes, terrific idea.)

No need to point out that he's suggesting only that it would "factor into" the judges' decision. The thing is, common sense tells us what kinds of things get into online voting, and experience tells us that those common-sense things hold true. It is an utterly awful idea. If it were to be adopted, it might serve some purposes (particularly, publicity and e-mail lists for the organization) but it wouldn't at all serve the purpose that the article talks about.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Regarding the first two Grieg Waltzes, you happen to agree with Mark and other posters have agreed with me.

smile

How cute smile First Mark gets called mind-bogglingly arrogant and then you're making it sound as though I'm the only one taking his side while other posters agreed with you. I'll let PW members speak for themselves

smile

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I also agree with Mark and Brendan.

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I also agree with Mark and Brendan.


I agreed with Mark before he made his first reply to AZNPiano's first post. Or, should I say, Mark agreed with me, and posted first. crazy laugh

Originally Posted By: carey
Given the difficulty of everything else he's programmed, and the brevity of the first two of the three waltzes, in the great scheme of things this may not be a big deal. And just because it is a Grieg "Lyric Piece", there is absolutely nothing lightweight about the Opus 47 No. 1.

Originally Posted By: Schubertslieder
Grieg is one of my favorite composer so he gets extra bonus points from me.
But I didn't say at all that you were the only one agreeing with Mark. I said you agreed with Mark and some other posters agreed with me(which is true). This was in response to your post that also expressed shock that anyone could object to the Grieg.

In fact, I was not even the first person to say the Grieg Waltzes were not a good choice. But you didn't bother quoting any of the anti Grieg posts. Also, I think the last two posts you quoted are not really relevant. The last only discusses the poster's like for Grieg as a composer and the one before only discusses the brevity of the Grieg.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
"Mr. Lebrecht suggested that one solution might be to allow online audience voting to factor into the judges’ decision."

(Yes, terrific idea.)

A genius has spoken! And guess what, there is at least one international piano competition, where this has been done, in Almaty, KAzachstan ha At least I was told that it was more of an American Idol-type of thing where all candidates weere also interviewed, seen on (national?) TV etc, and people picked their favourites.

In Sweden we recently had a multi-instrumental competition with the finals with a major swedish orchestra, broadcasted on the radio (and online) with an "audience prize" as a part of the win. However, one of the finalists happened to be playign for the 3rd time with that very orchestra, while the two other finalists had their first gig with the orchestra...guess who won the audience prize wink
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
But I didn't say at all that you were the only one agreeing with Mark. I said you agreed with Mark and some other posters agreed with me(which is true).

It's indeed completely true and a very nice way of leaving out information (namely, that it wasn't only me who took Marks side) ha Turning it the other way around, I don't think you'd consider it a fair description if Mark would say that X (as in one person) agreed with you and "other posters" (in plural) agreed with him, would you? wink
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

My final word on that programming thing (I hope, and I'm sure a few others do too) ha ....is that those who feel the Grieg is ridiculous just don't realize or don't appreciate the truly infinite range of rhythmic treatments that are possible and the levels of skill that can be shown and enjoyed in them ...
In other words, you again say that those who don't think the Grieg is a good choice are not as knowledgeable as you. We just don't realize or appreciate things.
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Turning it the other way around, I don't think you'd consider it a fair description if Mark would say that X (as in one person) agreed with you and "other posters" (in plural) agreed with him, would you? wink


I wonder how long it will take pianoloverus to respond that Mark does that all of the time! Which he does indeed! ha

He (Mark C) and you (fnork) are nonetheless 100 % right!
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 01:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
But you didn't bother quoting any of the anti Grieg posts.

You had covered that area already by saying that 'other posters' agreed with you. I wanted to cover up things you simply neglected to mention by saying me and Mark (without mentioning anyone else) were on the pro-Grieg track. As for things said by other PW members, I wouldn't hesitate that all those that I quoted clearly take side for Grieg rather than against.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 02:19 PM

PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.

Also, any poster has the right to disagree with you, similarly you have the same right. It doesn't make a poster arrogant just because he disagrees with another poster. This is an open forum. I am free to express my views the way I like.
You are not a moderator and you are not expected to behave as a teacher who judges the comments of other posters.

Instead of calling other people arrogant, why not stay focused on the topic? IMO, you are the arrogant one around here. Is my last sentence okay since I put the IMO in the beginning? No.

You, see, I can continue forever. Does this way of posting contribute any value to this thread? No. It is all useless bla, bla, bla...

I hope you get what I am trying to show.
Posted by: Sam S

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 02:24 PM

I'm just a fan, really, and not as knowledgeable as many here about repertoire and programming choices and so forth.

But what I found interesting was that only 5 of the 30 contestants are female - where are all the female pianists?

And oddly, 3 of the 5 females are from the USA. Is it a cultural thing?

Sam
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.
I don't agree at all. How you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.
I don't agree at all. How you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation.


I don't agree at all. How you say something is not very important. Perhaps even less important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation.

Now, what? We don't agree. Should we? No. Why bother?

Do you have something to say on the subject?
That would be far more interesting for me to read.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.
I don't agree at all. When one doesn't include IMO or something similar it can appear as if one thinks one's opinion is fact and a black and white issue. To me it's a question of how one should talk to another person in a respectful way.

I think how you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation. Unfortunately, some use the non face to face aspect of the internet to talk in way they probably would never do in a face to face conversation.

In a similar way, some posters don't mind how certain well known pianists act in master classes, but many find those same pianists extremely obnoxious, cruel, arrogant(whatever you want to call it) because of the way they talk to their students in those classes.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I don't agree at all. How you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation.

You're very welcome to agree or disagree. However, I think most of us would agree that no matter whether you include "IMO" in a sentence or not, it's fairly obvious that it is the opinion of the poster that is being expressed wink
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:37 PM

I can't wait for the performances to begin.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I can't wait for the performances to begin.

Who cares about the performances - let's keep arguing about Grieg waltzes laugh
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I don't agree at all. How you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation.

You're very welcome to agree or disagree. However, I think most of us would agree that no matter whether you include "IMO" in a sentence or not, it's fairly obvious that it is the opinion of the poster that is being expressed wink
If you check the rest of the thread you will see at least "IMO" or "I think". I do not think this must appear in every sentence.

Does the poster appear think his opinion is a fact is the relevant question?

Do they include phrases like "This is a fact" or "I simply cannot understand how anyone would feel differently" or
I must conclude that anyone who doesn't feel this way is lacking in..."?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.
I don't agree at all. When one doesn't include IMO or something similar it can appear as if one thinks one's opinion is fact and a black and white issue. To me it's a question of how one should talk to another person in a respectful way.

I think how you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation. Unfortunately, some use the non face to face aspect of the internet to talk in way they probably would never do in a face to face conversation.

In a similar way, some posters don't mind how certain well known pianists act in master classes, but many find those same pianists extremely obnoxious, cruel, arrogant(whatever you want to call it) because of the way they talk to their students in those classes.


Let me cut this short. Cause I won't write so much bla,bla one more time.

I don't need your moral lessons. In fact who do you think you are to give moral lessons to me. How daring is this? Look at your posts, they are full of "IMO", "I think", "to me" and similar words. So they are your opinions. Fine. But I don't have to agree with all of what you say. Don't impose your opinions insistently on me. If we were talking this face to face, we wouldn't be talking anymore because I would turn around and leave just as we won't be talking anymore here because I will not be listening (reading) to you anymore.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Hakki
PL, IMO, your posts, calling posters arrogant, because they did not include words like "IMO", "I think" is as arrogant as it gets.
Now, what difference would it make if I hadn't put the "IMO" word in my above sentence. It is still apparent that this is my sentence and my point of view.
I don't need to add those words. So please stop basing your argument on that.
I don't agree at all. When one doesn't include IMO or something similar it can appear as if one thinks one's opinion is fact and a black and white issue. To me it's a question of how one should talk to another person in a respectful way.

I think how you say something is very important. Perhaps even more important when posting on the internet vs. face to face conversation. Unfortunately, some use the non face to face aspect of the internet to talk in way they probably would never do in a face to face conversation.

In a similar way, some posters don't mind how certain well known pianists act in master classes, but many find those same pianists extremely obnoxious, cruel, arrogant(whatever you want to call it) because of the way they talk to their students in those classes.


Let me cut this short. Cause I won't write so much bla,bla one more time.

I don't need your moral lessons. In fact who do you think you are to give moral lessons to me. How daring is this? Look at your posts, they are full of "IMO", "I think", "to me" and similar words. So they are your opinions. Fine. But I don't have to agree with all of what you say. Don't impose your opinions insistently on me. If we were talking this face to face, we wouldn't be talking anymore because I would turn around and leave just as we won't be talking anymore here because I will not be listening (reading) to you anymore.
I didn't say you have to agree just because I include IMO.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Does the poster appear think his opinion is a fact is the relevant question?

Do they include phrases like "This is a fact" or "I simply cannot understand how anyone would feel differently" or
I must conclude that anyone who doesn't feel this way is lacking in..."?

You never took on the question of what exactly you thought wasn't a fact in the things I mentioned. You're just falling back on your usual generalities -- which really aren't generalities at all.

Wanna try?

As long as you're not, it looks like you're conceding that they are so -- which pretty much invalidates everything in your last 10 or so posts.

For ease of reference, in case you'd think of saying you're not sure what we're talking about and you don't have the time to look back.... grin

"There are endless ways to play these "simple" pieces, even just in terms of rhythms. The spectrum of such possibilities spans an extremely great range of talent and skill, ranging from just "OK" performances (not to mention bad), like what would be shown by most 2nd year students, as referred to in that earlier post, and all the way through good, very good, and above. And further, within each of those levels, what the performer does shows a lot about his/her musical personality. And all of that is of interest for a competition."


P.S. Sort of on the side of those who are disagreeing, I'll say this: When a contestant programs pieces like the Grieg, he/she better do something pretty special with them, because just a routinely 'good' performance would be felt to be a waste of time. To that extent, I'd say that ironically such a repertoire choice is very high risk -- but also very high reward, because the charm and personality that can be shown are exactly the kinds of things that critics of competitions have said to be usually missing, and which I think juries are looking for more and more.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
As long as you're not, it looks like you're conceding that they are so -- which pretty much invalidates everything in your last 10 or so posts.
I already answered your question three times.

Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
As long as you're not, it looks like you're conceding that they are so -- which pretty much invalidates everything in your last 10 or so posts.
I already answered your question three times.

NEVER AT ALL.

You never said anything about those things.

And it's clear why * : you couldn't.

If you think you can, prove us wrong. smile


* oops, forgot to say "IMO" grin
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
As long as you're not, it looks like you're conceding that they are so -- which pretty much invalidates everything in your last 10 or so posts.
I already answered your question three times.

NEVER AT ALL.

You never said anything about those things.

And it's clear why * : you couldn't.

If you think you can, prove us wrong.

* oops, forget to say "IMO" grin
If you reread the thread you'll see I already explained(a few times I think) that I never said that lack of nuance or anything else on your list was unimportant. That's your claim but it's incorrect. What I did say was that the pieces in question didn't offer sufficient scope to display all the the items on your list.

" I'd guess Chernov chose them so he could have the programming idea of playing three waltzes, but I don't think there is much any pianist can say of significance when dealing with such minor works. I don't think the first two Waltzes really allow the contestant to show much artistry, so substituting more significant Lyric Piece(s) would have been better."

"I listened to Rachmaninov playing the a minor Waltz. He didn't play it metronomically but OTOH I don't see how anyone could think "What a great and musical performance. He had such great insight and ideas in that little piece."

You see, I already answered your question three times.

Of course, my objection all along to your post was how you said things not what you said. So whether what I said or what you said is true or false is not what I would call relevant.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:38 PM

Good -- you're finally trying to answer.
You hadn't before.

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
If you reread the thread you'll see I already explained that I never said that lack of nuance or anything else on your list was unimportant....

Good. smile

Quote:
That's your claim but it's incorrect. What I did say was that the pieces in question didn't offer sufficient scope to display all the the items on your list.

Thanks for being direct.
But, a couple of things. There wasn't any list, just one thing: rhythm. And, if you are not appreciating the possible differences in flair, charm, and personality that are involved in it, you're just missing something. (No IMO needed.) That doesn't mean those things aren't there.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Good -- you're finally trying to answer.
You hadn't before.
I just quoted several places where I had previously answered. So saying I "finally" answered is absolute nonsense.

"Trying to answer"? I afraid that's very arrogant. As was your "good".
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
But, a couple of things. There wasn't any list, just one thing: rhythm. And, if you are not appreciating the possible differences in flair, charm, and personality that are involved in it, you're just missing something. (No IMO needed.) That doesn't mean those things aren't there.

I covered a bit of the rhythm issue before, but it wasn't enough to impress PL as you can see:

Originally Posted By: fnork
Surely this is a more straight-forward piece formally than a Liszt ballade, but the rhythms are handled elegantly (like the opening theme, the subtly rushed triplets in bar 11 and elsewhere), the slight tempo changes (at the theme in bar 10 for example) I found effective, and the lyrical major episode is phrased dreamily and more freely. In short, many of the hallmarks of Sergei's playing can be found in this tiny trifle.
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Of course Rachmaninov played this piece well, but I think you've exaggerated what he did with it in terms of how much greatness it reveals.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I can't wait for the performances to begin.
I will also watch the competition closely although I have to admit I feel somewhat guilty because I think:

1. it's kind of like admitting one enjoys watching extreme fighting or gladiatorial combat

2. I understand to some extent how crushing it can be for some contestants when they do poorly
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 05:05 PM

It's more like admitting that one enjoys listening to interesting (well, hopefully) performances. (no IMO needed) I would never bother to follow any competition CLOSELY, but rather listen a bit here and there to find performers I find interesting. One doesn't listen to a pianist an awful long time to make up ones mind about that. (for example, in spite of defending Chernov's programming, I can't say he seems to be the most interesting of the candidates in this competition)
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 05:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I can't wait for the performances to begin.
I will also watch the competition closely although I have to admit I feel somewhat guilty because I think:

1. it's kind of like admitting one enjoys watching extreme fighting or gladiatorial combat

2. I understand to some extent how crushing it can be for some contestants when they do poorly


I've never had that experience personally. I am just happy to have so much wonderful playing available to enjoy. Everyone usually plays at such a high level that it is a joy to just listen. I have been watching the videos of the performances of the QE competition. Wonderful playing all around.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 08:15 PM

In response to the last two pages:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
In response to the last two pages:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


+1
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:30 PM

Mark and PL'us--

Since you both live in NYC, can't you meet on a street corner and just duke it out? (Come to think of it, I suppose you'd have trouble agreeing on which corner to meet.)
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
In response to the last two pages:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA






Posted by: Schubertslieder

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Mark and PL'us--

Since you both live in NYC, can't you meet on a street corner and just duke it out? (Come to think of it, I suppose you'd have trouble agreeing on which corner to meet.)

lolololol
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 09:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
In response to the last two pages:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



Can we start a new megathread?
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 10:02 PM

106 posts and the competition doesn't start for 5 more days!
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
106 posts and the competition doesn't start for 5 more days!


Isn't it great? laugh
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Schubertslieder
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Mark and PL'us--
Since you both live in NYC, can't you meet on a street corner and just duke it out? (Come to think of it, I suppose you'd have trouble agreeing on which corner to meet.)

lolololol

Y'know, what we do is probably just a civilized version of human beings' hard-wiring for what you said!
(Yes, civilized.) smile
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
106 posts and the competition doesn't start for 5 more days!


The competition here started years ago. grin

I wonder if this thread will survive until the VC actually begins - the way it is going, it seems probable it will be locked before then.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: carey

In looking at the US schools/conservatories attended by the contestants....Juilliard and Curtis are heavily represented. Other schools included in the mix are the Boston Conservatory (2), New England Conservatory (1), TCU (2 - no surprise there), Yale (1), Peabody (1), Indiana University/South Bend (1) and Principia College (1).

OK - Let's try this again. Does it strike anyone as a bit odd that Juilliard and Curtis students/grads are so prominently represented?????? smile


OK - Third and final attempt.... ha

Of the 30 contestants, 15 have attended a college or conservatory in the USA (in addition to whatever other training they received).

Of those 15,
-- 6 attended Juilliard
-- 1 attended Curtis
-- 4 attended BOTH Juilliard and Curtis
(Total 11)

Thus, over 1/3 of the contestants attended either Juilliard, Curtis or both.

Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
.....Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?

I vote for "and." smile

Especially if you substitute "attract" for "produce." Or at least add it.

(See the "Virtuoso" thread, and look under "talent.") grin
Posted by: ScriabinAddict

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/19/13 11:47 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?


Politics?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 12:25 AM

Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Originally Posted By: carey
Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?


Politics?


No. It has been a long time since the cold war days of 1958.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 12:26 AM

Never did me any good; then again, I didn't study with the "right" person.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 12:26 AM

Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Originally Posted By: carey
Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?


Politics?


Say it ain't so!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 12:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Never did me any good; then again, I didn't study with the "right" person.

Even if you studied with the "wrong" person - from what I've seen on your youtube channel you're a WINNER !!! thumb
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: ScriabinAddict
Originally Posted By: carey
Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?


Politics?


No. It has been a long time since the cold war days of 1958.


And only three of the 13 judges for this year's competition seem to have ties to Juilliard. grin
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 06:46 AM

I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 08:40 AM

Originally Posted By: fnork
I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?


Yes. I was going to mention that, also.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: fnork
I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?


Yes. I was going to mention that, also.


Probably a wise decision on their part!!!! grin
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Schubertslieder
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Mark and PL'us--
Since you both live in NYC, can't you meet on a street corner and just duke it out? (Come to think of it, I suppose you'd have trouble agreeing on which corner to meet.)

lolololol

Y'know, what we do is probably just a civilized version of human beings' hard-wiring for what you said!
(Yes, civilized.) smile


Civilized, perhaps, but slower, less effective, and more annoying to others. smile
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 12:24 PM

Quoting an internet article...:

"(...)no less than 11 have studied or are studying in the Juilliard School of Music. Of these 11, seven are or were students of Veda Kaplinsky , one of the judges who presided upon the preliminary auditions. The list of jurors for the finals in May-June also reveals her name among the 13 people who will who decide who wins this competition. "

http://pianofortephilia.blogspot.fi/2013/03/observations-ahead-of-14th-van-cliburn.html

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: fnork
I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?


Yes. I was going to mention that, also.


Probably a wise decision on their part!!!! grin

Certainly, but it makes you wonder how the decisionmaking worked here. At some point, Veda must've been thinking "Umm, I have so many of my own students among the competitors, this will not look very good....better perhaps not include the names of teachers with whom the competitors studied..." - but I imagine she must've made the suggestion in a more...umm, diplomatic way!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Quoting an internet article...:
"(...)no less than 11 have studied or are studying in the Juilliard School of Music. Of these 11, seven are or were students of Veda Kaplinsky , one of the judges who presided upon the preliminary auditions. The list of jurors for the finals in May-June also reveals her name among the 13 people who will who decide who wins this competition. "
http://pianofortephilia.blogspot.fi/2013/03/observations-ahead-of-14th-van-cliburn.html

I went through the list three times - and I could only find 10 candidates with a Juilliard connection - not 11. So it could be that 7 out of 10 Juilliard students studied with Ms. Kaplinsky. She must be one heck of a teacher !!!!
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
[quote=fnork]I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?

Yes. I was going to mention that, also.

Originally Posted By: Carey
Probably a wise decision on their part!!!! grin

Originally Posted By: fnrok
Certainly, but it makes you wonder how the decisionmaking worked here. At some point, Veda must've been thinking "Umm, I have so many of my own students among the competitors, this will not look very good....better perhaps not include the names of teachers with whom the competitors studied..." - but I imagine she must've made the suggestion in a more...umm, diplomatic way!


In my book Ms. Kaplinsky has a conflict of interest - and should resign (or be asked to resign) from the jury. [I managed municipal and state arts grants programs for many years - so I think I can recognize a conflict of interest when I see one !!!!) ha
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/20/13 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
I find it very interesting that one piece of information is withheld from all candidates bios....anyone else noticing the same?


They used to include teacher names - seems there's been a policy change.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/21/13 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: carey

In looking at the US schools/conservatories attended by the contestants....Juilliard and Curtis are heavily represented. Other schools included in the mix are the Boston Conservatory (2), New England Conservatory (1), TCU (2 - no surprise there), Yale (1), Peabody (1), Indiana University/South Bend (1) and Principia College (1).

OK - Let's try this again. Does it strike anyone as a bit odd that Juilliard and Curtis students/grads are so prominently represented?????? smile


OK - Third and final attempt.... ha

Of the 30 contestants, 15 have attended a college or conservatory in the USA (in addition to whatever other training they received).

Of those 15,
-- 6 attended Juilliard
-- 1 attended Curtis
-- 4 attended BOTH Juilliard and Curtis
(Total 11)

Thus, over 1/3 of the contestants attended either Juilliard, Curtis or both.

Is there something inherent in the "culture" of Juilliard and Curtis that expects or encourages graduates to compete in major competitions - OR do these institutions, in fact, simply produce the finest young pianists in the nation?



My impression of Julliard (70s, 80s) has always been that, rather than a conservatory, it is more like a college which aims for multi-oriented artists in the fields of contemporary, jazz, chamber music as well as drama, modern dancing, and singing. Also a place where hardworking, discipline, excellence being not as vital a priority as compared to Russian, Italian, French conservatories. I imagine the atmosphere at Julliard as a rather casual/free/friendly training environment.

Hence, I am a bit surprised to see so many Julliard competitors and really curious about how will they do against their European counterparts.
I don't think more than one will advance to the finals. Even one being a surprise for me.

Edit: My candidate would be Sara Daneshpour.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 03:33 PM

I'm curious about the commissioned work...never heard about the composer I have to admit:
http://www.cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/about-the-competition/commissioned-work/

If I recall correctly, in the previous Van Cliburn there were two or three commissioned works from which the candidates could choose one. This seems a change that now all candidates have to play the same (?).
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
I'm curious about the commissioned work...never heard about the composer I have to admit:
http://www.cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/about-the-competition/commissioned-work/

If I recall correctly, in the previous Van Cliburn there were two or three commissioned works from which the candidates could choose one. This seems a change that now all candidates have to play the same (?).

I'm not sure about how it was in the past, but the whole issue with a comissioned work is slightly problematic to my mind. While I do understand the point with having competitors learn a new and never-before-heard work, let's just face it - many of these comissioned pieces are not good, and most competitors drop it from their repertoire as soon as they have played it in the competition. In the Maj Lind competition here in Helsinki last year, candidates were allowed to either perform one of the two comissioned works, or perform a piece of their own, or alternatively improvise on a theme given to them 20 minutes before the performance. I thought it was great as it gave performers room to show their skills - many opted to improvise, and a few performed their own compositions. The great majority, however, still opted for the comissioned works.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
the whole issue with a comissioned work is slightly problematic to my mind. While I do understand the point with having competitors learn a new and never-before-heard work, let's just face it - many of these comissioned pieces are not good, and most competitors drop it from their repertoire as soon as they have played it in the competition.


Sad, but true. Still, there are exceptions, so there is always hope for some great new pieces. For example, I remember the Gubaidulina Chaconne was commissioned for Rubinstein competition (in 60s?), and it's a good piece, quite prominent nowadays and regularly performed. I'm sure there are other great works that came out of similar commissions that I'm not even aware of. Nevertheless, the majority of works will probably fall into obscurity...
Posted by: D. S. F.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
[quote=pianovirus] In the Maj Lind competition here in Helsinki last year, candidates were allowed to either perform one of the two comissioned works, or perform a piece of their own, or alternatively improvise on a theme given to them 20 minutes before the performance. I thought it was great as it gave performers room to show their skills - many opted to improvise, and a few performed their own compositions. The great majority, however, still opted for the comissioned works.


That's awesome! I'd love to hear that.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
If I recall correctly, in the previous Van Cliburn there were two or three commissioned works from which the candidates could choose one. This seems a change that now all candidates have to play the same (?).

I'm pretty sure (which doesn't necessarily mean anything) ha that it's always been just one specified new work by one composer.

Originally Posted By: fnork
....the whole issue with a comissioned work is slightly problematic to my mind. While I do understand the point with having competitors learn a new and never-before-heard work, let's just face it - many of these comissioned pieces are not good, and most competitors drop it from their repertoire as soon as they have played it in the competition.....

I think it's tremendous.

I don't think that last part is true (not uniformly anyway) but even if it were, I think it would still be a valuable and interesting test for the candidates, IMO extremely so. And besides, it's a way of regularly honoring and highlighting one contemporary composer on an international stage, and experiencing a dozen independent from-scratch interpretations of a new score.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: pianovirus
I'm curious about the commissioned work...never heard about the composer I have to admit:
http://www.cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/about-the-competition/commissioned-work/

If I recall correctly, in the previous Van Cliburn there were two or three commissioned works from which the candidates could choose one. This seems a change that now all candidates have to play the same (?).

I wondered about that, too. I remember that blind Japanese pianist Nobuyuki picked a commissioned work that nobody else picked, and he ended up winning.

I actually liked some of the commissioned works. My personal favorite is Three Impromptus by Lowell Liebermann.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/22/13 10:45 PM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
I wondered about that, too. I remember that blind Japanese pianist Nobuyuki picked a commissioned work that nobody else picked....

Really?

If so, that blows what I said out of the water in one quick stroke. grin


Edit: I checked a little, and darned if you aren't right. thumb
Looking at the programs of the finalists, I see that there were at least 3 selections to choose from.

So, let me take a Mulligan: Originally it was just one piece that everyone had to play, it continued that way for some time, and I think it's been that way most of the time. I think 2009 was an exception; don't know if it was the sole exception.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 01:11 AM

At least three Cliburn commissioned works have made it into the contemporary repertory. Barber's Ballade, Corigliano's Fantasia on an Ostinato, and Bolcom's Bagatelles are published and performed. (Not that often, perhaps, but it does happen!) One also hears, rarely, Copland's Night Thoughts and Higdon's Secret and Glass Gardens.

I do like that the Cliburn continues to make an attempt at promoting new music, although it is rather sad that it's necessitated by the fact that most competitors avoid anything off the beaten path. (Although there are notable exceptions: Russo's Crumb, Wright's Rzewski, and Taylor's Boulez come to mind.)

Also sad is the lack of attention to other composers who I think would be excellent additions to the competition stage: Alkan comes to mind, as does Medtner, Lyapunov, even Field and Dussek. Even some extremely important 20th century composers are rarely represented: Messaien or Shostakovich. And given the news of his passing, I can only hope the Dutilleux sonata starts to get some more attention. I think a well-played Dutilleux sonata would garner every bit as much attention as Vine 1, Barber, or Prokofiev 6. (I also think Shostakovich 2nd or Hindemith 3rd sonata would be extremely effective, but I seem to be somewhat alone in my high regard for those two composers' sonatas. I think Shostakovich 1 ranks right up there with the other great one movement sonatas of the 20th century - Berg, Prok 3, mid-late Scriabin)
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 01:11 AM

(And yes, one of the reasons I won't be watching that much of the Cliburn online is that, quite frankly, I don't have the patience to sit through 394857 performances of Beethoven 111, regardless of how good the piece/pianist is.)
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 02:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
And given the news of his passing, I can only hope the Dutilleux sonata starts to get some more attention. I think a well-played Dutilleux sonata would garner every bit as much attention as Vine 1, Barber, or Prokofiev 6.


Dutilleux's music has turned up in the Queen Elizabeth that is currently in progress - see my post in the Dutilleux thread.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
At least three Cliburn commissioned works have made it into the contemporary repertory. Barber's Ballade, Corigliano's Fantasia on an Ostinato, and Bolcom's Bagatelles are published and performed. (Not that often, perhaps, but it does happen!) One also hears, rarely, Copland's Night Thoughts and Higdon's Secret and Glass Gardens.

That's still a fairly small number, considering how many pieces that have been commissioned. Also, Night thoughts - that's a real piece of cake anyway, isn't it? A pianist I know was asked to play it in concert with less than a weeks notice. I don't remember much of the Corigliano Fantasia now but it also didn't strike me as a particularly difficult. I can say that about countless of competition pieces, really, and perhaps another thing worth thinking of: from a composers perspective, when there are several works comissioned in a competition, you're basically "competing with other composers" about how many performers that pick your piece. Think it aint so? I'm saying it because I know composers of the kind that decide to write exactly whatever that comes to their mind without any thoughts on if anyone will be interested in playing their piece and who end up saddened to see that not a single semifinalist is playing their piece (and only a few out of a total of more than 40 chose to play it), and I know composers who think strategically and avoid putting this or that in the piece because they think nobody would play it if they did. The 'performer-friendly' composer thus thinks that he should write something that SOUNDS sophisticated and clever and APPEARS to be fairly difficult, but without actually demanding TOO MUCH from the performer.
So with all of this in mind, and while I also like the idea itself of having performers play something entirely new, I think the whole issue of commissioned pieces is very problematic.

Quote:
I do like that the Cliburn continues to make an attempt at promoting new music, although it is rather sad that it's necessitated by the fact that most competitors avoid anything off the beaten path. (Although there are notable exceptions: Russo's Crumb, Wright's Rzewski, and Taylor's Boulez come to mind.)

Agreed to all of this, and let it also be said that it's a shame that a huge competition like Cliburn actually makes life difficult for those that want to play something contemporary that demands preparing the instrument in any way. I'm thinking of poor Russo and his Crumb in particular - the guy was not allowed to mark things inside the piano, which is essential in order to be sure how to get which overtone, where to dampen the strings where the hands etc etc...Amazingly enough, he managed to memorize all of that somehow but was kicked out in the first round....
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 10:48 AM

What is the relevance of commissioned works to a piano competition? I really don't get the idea at all. What is its purpose? How will the jury, audience judge on a piece that they have not heard before, whether it is played right or wrong?

To me these are all just some eccentric motives of the elitists who think that they make the competition look intellectual in this way. IMO, almost nobody later remembers the commissioned work and how it was performed.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 10:49 AM

I also hate to single out the Cliburn, since almost every major competition I can think of has the same issue - competitors choosing extremely conservative programs consisting of a relatively small number of standard works.

I noticed a lack of Debussy in competitors' programs, too. Seriously? No Debussy? And when people do play Debussy in competitions, it's usually L'isle Joyeuse. Where's Bergamasque? Where's Images? Wonderful music, passed over in favor of yet another performance of Gaspard. It's insane. I love Gaspard, but it's not the only thing Ravel wrote. (And not even his best - I think Tombeau, Miroirs, and the Sonatine are every bit as strong!)
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I also hate to single out the Cliburn, since almost every major competition I can think of has the same issue - competitors choosing extremely conservative programs consisting of a relatively small number of standard works.

I noticed a lack of Debussy in competitors' programs, too. Seriously? No Debussy? And when people do play Debussy in competitions, it's usually L'isle Joyeuse. Where's Bergamasque? Where's Images? Wonderful music, passed over in favor of yet another performance of Gaspard. It's insane. I love Gaspard, but it's not the only thing Ravel wrote. (And not even his best - I think Tombeau, Miroirs, and the Sonatine are every bit as strong!)


Couldn't agree more; got so sick in nyc of hearing the "nifty fifty", as we started dubbing it.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I also hate to single out the Cliburn, since almost every major competition I can think of has the same issue - competitors choosing extremely conservative programs consisting of a relatively small number of standard works.

I noticed a lack of Debussy in competitors' programs, too. Seriously? No Debussy? And when people do play Debussy in competitions, it's usually L'isle Joyeuse. Where's Bergamasque? Where's Images? Wonderful music, passed over in favor of yet another performance of Gaspard. It's insane. I love Gaspard, but it's not the only thing Ravel wrote. (And not even his best - I think Tombeau, Miroirs, and the Sonatine are every bit as strong!)


Couldn't agree more; got so sick in nyc of hearing the "nifty fifty", as we started dubbing it.


Couldn't disagree more.
Aren't you missing a point? This is a once every four years event. For some of the competitors (due to age limit) their last chance. Everybody is waiting to see how they perform the Gaspard, not the Bergamasque. Why wait four years to hear Bergamasque? Let us be realistic.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I also hate to single out the Cliburn, since almost every major competition I can think of has the same issue - competitors choosing extremely conservative programs consisting of a relatively small number of standard works.

I noticed a lack of Debussy in competitors' programs, too. Seriously? No Debussy? And when people do play Debussy in competitions, it's usually L'isle Joyeuse. Where's Bergamasque? Where's Images? Wonderful music, passed over in favor of yet another performance of Gaspard. It's insane. I love Gaspard, but it's not the only thing Ravel wrote. (And not even his best - I think Tombeau, Miroirs, and the Sonatine are every bit as strong!)


Couldn't agree more; got so sick in nyc of hearing the "nifty fifty", as we started dubbing it.


Couldn't disagree more.
Aren't you missing a point? This is a once every four years event. For some of the competitors (due to age limit) their last chance. Everybody is waiting to see how they perform the Gaspard, not the Bergamasque. Why wait four years to hear Bergamasque? Let us be realistic.


Realistically, I feel sorry for the judges hearing the same pieces ad nauseum.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I also hate to single out the Cliburn, since almost every major competition I can think of has the same issue - competitors choosing extremely conservative programs consisting of a relatively small number of standard works.

I noticed a lack of Debussy in competitors' programs, too. Seriously? No Debussy? And when people do play Debussy in competitions, it's usually L'isle Joyeuse. Where's Bergamasque? Where's Images? Wonderful music, passed over in favor of yet another performance of Gaspard. It's insane. I love Gaspard, but it's not the only thing Ravel wrote. (And not even his best - I think Tombeau, Miroirs, and the Sonatine are every bit as strong!)


Couldn't agree more; got so sick in nyc of hearing the "nifty fifty", as we started dubbing it.


Couldn't disagree more.
Aren't you missing a point? This is a once every four years event. For some of the competitors (due to age limit) their last chance. Everybody is waiting to see how they perform the Gaspard, not the Bergamasque. Why wait four years to hear Bergamasque? Let us be realistic.


Realistically, I feel sorry for the judges hearing the same pieces ad nauseum.


No. Nobody is forced to be a judge there.
Let me make one point clear. This is a competition. Some might not like the idea of a piano competition. But that is another story.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:15 AM

With the relaxation of compulsory pieces, it would be nice if the piano community at large was more enterprising in their programming, from both sides of the aisle.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:39 AM

Piano is an instrument of the past. The roots that made piano so popular belong to the past. This instrument has made millions of families to make their own music in their homes.

There is a tradition of piano playing.
The society of today still require to listen to live performances of the beautiful piano compositions of the past as being performed as close to the way they were once performed in the past. That is why all these music schools are still educating generations of new pianists.
Here and in the other competitions, the music society is searching for the next generation of pianists that will carry on the flag.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:58 AM

Prelim schedule is up!

http://cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/preliminary-round
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:58 AM

Besides the competition's championing of contemporary composers and new works, the ability of a pianist to quickly learn something completely unknown and unfamiliar is of value and of interest. I don't think it would ever be regarded as a total litmus test for a possible winner, but IMO it's worth seeing and worth doing.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Besides the competition's championing of contemporary composers and new works, the ability of a pianist to quickly learn something completely unknown and unfamiliar is of value and of interest. I don't think it would ever be regarded as a total litmus test for a possible winner, but IMO it's worth seeing and worth doing.


One of the nice facets of the QE competition, I think.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Thracozaag
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Besides the competition's championing of contemporary composers and new works, the ability of a pianist to quickly learn something completely unknown and unfamiliar is of value and of interest. I don't think it would ever be regarded as a total litmus test for a possible winner, but IMO it's worth seeing and worth doing.


One of the nice facets of the QE competition, I think.


I am not convinced at all. Why test such a thing? In real life there won't be such a situation. Even if it happens, what is the logic of trying to pick who is best at such a thing through a piano competition based on a short single piece. IMO, the real reason is not any of the above but something else. Something else that nobody is willing to blurt out. Because IMO, it is a King's new clothes situation. To confront the idea of promoting contemporary music is not as easy with the pressure from contemporary composers. But in the end it is meaningless and irrelevant. I am sure all the competitors are hating that they are forced to play those eccentric pieces.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:15 PM

Ok, you win. Enjoy the competition!
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki


I am not convinced at all. Why test such a thing? In real life there won't be such a situation.


Happens all the time, actually. Sometimes composers drag their feet with major commissions, most notably Barber finishing his Piano Concerto only two weeks before the premiere.

Quote:
Even if it happens, what is the logic of trying to pick who is best at such a thing through a piano competition based on a short single piece.


The logic is to see if the pianist is versatile, capable, and willing to take on projects that aren't only related to Rachmaninov. Conversely, do you think that if one of the competitors were offered a premier of a new concerto with a major orchestra, they would turn it down?

Quote:
IMO, the real reason is not any of the above but something else. Something else that nobody is willing to blurt out. Because IMO, it is a King's new clothes situation. To confront the idea of promoting contemporary music is not as easy with the pressure from contemporary composers. But in the end it is meaningless and irrelevant. I am sure all the competitors are hating that they are forced to play those eccentric pieces.


Why make absolute statements? I don't think that all of the contestants hate the commissioned pieces or that the works themselves are "meaningless and irrelevant." There have been quite a few excellent commissioned works from this and many other competitions, and if the competitors hated playing them, it would reflect in their performances (and its easy to detect when they do dislike playing new music).

In any case, I am looking forward to these programs:

http://cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/current-competitors/competitor-details/?ID=523
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:41 PM

When there are zillion of pianists who are waiting to play a Rachmaninov (or similar) concerto with an orchestra, it is meaningful to device a competition to pick up who deserves the ticket.
When there is virtually nobody waiting to play those contemporary pieces -instead composers begging for their works to be performed even by a mediocre pianist- why device a competition for it. That is why I find it meaningless. It doesn't fit the demand supply curve. Hence the absolute statements.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 12:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Hence the absolute statements.


Which are, by definition, untrue.

Anyway, back to practicing!
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 01:51 PM

Also:

http://www.psmag.com/blogs/news-blog/how-to-entice-people-to-buy-symphony-tickets-58211/

Spoiler:

People aren't as turned off by contemporary music as artists think they are; and in some cases, audiences actually like trying new things!

I think there is a demand for contemporary music - just look at the successes Conrad Tao, Gabriela Montero, and Joanna MacGregor have had.

Back to practicing for me, too. (Albeniz and Vine!)
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 01:53 PM

Winning Van Cliburn competition is about not only being a great competitor and performer, but also being ready to be a performing artist. For a competition that not only gives the winner a lot of money, but at lot of exposure, a concert tour, and other means to launch a professional career as a touring pianist, I don't see how forcing the competitors to learn a new piece for the competition is much of a strange thing at all. I mean, there's also a chamber music round - it's yet another situation where the competitor's broader skills as a musician are tested. These are skills that a winner needs to have, not just being able to play demanding solo works after having months to put these pieces together.

As for the yes Gaspard, or no Gaspard...I think it's okay if someone puts it in their repertoire to send a message that they have great technical skills and can perform a transcendentally difficult piece well. Though some people have really stupid programmes...there's some guy playing op.10 no.1, Feux Follets, and Scriabin's op.42 no.5 before playing Gaspard...what the helll?


Back to practicing for me as well...but Ondine this time. laugh . I'm not a conservatory pianist so I don't count.
Posted by: pianovirus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 02:03 PM

Interesting discussion! (before a single note has been played! smile )

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Piano is an instrument of the past. The roots that made piano so popular belong to the past. This instrument has made millions of families to make their own music in their homes.

There is a tradition of piano playing.
[...]
Here and in the other competitions, the music society is searching for the next generation of pianists that will carry on the flag.


I agree with some of the things you write, Hakki, in particular the wonderful tradition of our instrument and how this tradition will be carried on in the future. However, while the roots of the piano are in the past, that doesn't make the piano at all an instrument of the past, obviously!

And this is why I think commissioning works for a piano competition is such a great idea, because it needs to be a composition that makes sense for the competition, i.e. make use of the traditional technique of piano playing (no prepared pianos, no fancy electronics...). In this way, these works carry on the tradition of pianism into the future, keeping it all alive and preventing it from becoming a dusty museum!

Btw, thanks to those (Kreisler, AZNpiano,?) who mentioned other works which were commissioned by the Van Cliburn competition and which have entered the wider repertoire afterwards. I hope they carry on with this; it's a good initiative!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 02:22 PM

I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.
Neither did I listen to any similar pieces from Mr. Cliburn.

For me, the music must be beautiful enough to be agreed upon by everybody, not by a small elitist group claiming that the others are not understanding it. Call me a populist, but then I could call them snobs.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 02:35 PM

Despite my love for a lot of contemporary music, I still think we have to realize that there is a huge number of top-class musicians for whom this kind of music (I'm talking about music that actually sounds modern, rather than something like, say, Pärt's Für Alina or Einojuhani Rautavaara) just doesn't appeal.

For instance, Murray Perahia never plays anything more contemporary than Bartók (and has said he doesn't understand music that doesn't have recognizable melodies and harmonies); Vladimir Ashkenazy has performed Previn and Rautavaara and Ogdon, among others, but their music has similar attributes (and I heard the piece he favored when judging during a contemporary music competition - and it was the most tuneful piece among those submitted).

Those two pianists wouldn't have won the Leeds and Tchaikovsky respectively if they'd been forced to play a contemporary piece. And let's not forget that those competitions launched their subsequent careers.

I've also heard many derogatory comments (on and off the record grin) from orchestral musicians (especially in BBC orchestras, who often have to play newly-commissioned pieces) about some of the modern stuff they have to play.....
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
who often have to play newly-commissioned pieces) about some of the modern stuff they have to play.....


That is the problem, one must never "have to" play something. Music have to be played if you "like to" play it.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 05:45 PM

To enter the Cliburn, one is already forced to choose from one of four composers' piano quintets and must play a chamber concerto by Mozart or Beethoven. If one "liked to" play the Poulenc Sextet or the fifth Brandenburg concerto, they'd be out of luck.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. One of the things the Cliburn competition looks for is a well-rounded pianist, and that includes solo, chamber, concerto, and contemporary music.

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: bennevis
who often have to play newly-commissioned pieces) about some of the modern stuff they have to play.....


That is the problem, one must never "have to" play something. Music have to be played if you "like to" play it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
As for the yes Gaspard, or no Gaspard...I think it's okay if someone puts it in their repertoire to send a message that they have great technical skills and can perform a transcendentally difficult piece well. Though some people have really stupid programmes...there's some guy playing op.10 no.1, Feux Follets, and Scriabin's op.42 no.5 before playing Gaspard...what the helll?


Meaning what, too virtuosic? You left out that he's starting that recital with a Haydn Sonata.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: wr
http://www.qeimc.be/

Just sayin'...



WOW! Thanks for the link.

I just skimmed through a few semifinal videos and guess what?

I stopped by Boris Giltburg and gave his (another) Liszt Sonata a chance.

Well, I wouldn't have imagined myself listening to whole of it, especially with Giltburg's utmost control in every note he plays. But, to my surprise, I ended up listening till the end. Had he performed the last octaves a bit better, I would have left with utmost satisfaction.
Nevertheless it is worth giving it a try.

http://www.qeimc.be/cgi?usr=sajtcua2fy&a...p;flux=65417999


Giltburg had a major, major, major memory lapse in his Mozart Concerto (by my count, he was one of four who had memory lapses in their concertos, one of two with a big, serious, disqualifying lapse) yet still made it to the Finals (which start Monday).

Interesting. So the jury thinks Giltburg is so good they're willing to overlook such a huge mistake? I think he's good, but I don't think he's that good.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Sam S
I'm just a fan, really, and not as knowledgeable as many here about repertoire and programming choices and so forth.

But what I found interesting was that only 5 of the 30 contestants are female - where are all the female pianists?

And oddly, 3 of the 5 females are from the USA. Is it a cultural thing?

Sam


Some of the female contestants who probably would have been in the Cliburn went for the Queen Elisabeth instead. After attrition, their initial 75 candidates shrank to 63, of whom 25 were female. The finals begin on Monday, with women representing 3 of the 12.

It's an interesting question, though. I don't know if there's an answer.
Posted by: pianogirl87

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


I've heard of him before too. Though I have to admit, I'm not quite sure where from.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.
If someone has little or no interest in something it could expected they are not familiar with much of what that something involves.

"Did you see how Nakamura surpised his last round opponent with the double edged Noteboom Variation?" would probably get blank stares from those who don't follow chess.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
As for the yes Gaspard, or no Gaspard...I think it's okay if someone puts it in their repertoire to send a message that they have great technical skills and can perform a transcendentally difficult piece well. Though some people have really stupid programmes...there's some guy playing op.10 no.1, Feux Follets, and Scriabin's op.42 no.5 before playing Gaspard...what the helll?


Meaning what, too virtuosic? You left out that he's starting that recital with a Haydn Sonata.

You're correct that I left it out. But it's just a dumb programme (IMO), because it's just stunt after stunt. He just picked the hardest Chopin etude, Liszt etude, and the hardest "familiar" Scriabin etude, then decided to plonk on top of that Gaspard for good measure. And added in a Haydn sonata.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/23/13 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
He just picked the hardest Chopin etude...

Indeed he did not. wink
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:19 AM

Getting ready for tomorrow by reading the bios and repertoire. Some programs seem overly familiar as do the pictures. Maybe when the program changes so does the picture?

It seems to me the first Grieg waltz is completely out of place and context for such a competition. Not that Grieg is not welcome, on the contrary. To be fair we'll have to see how it all plays out.

Interesting that there will be a Goldberg. Can't wait to hear it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:37 AM

I'm not really looking forward to sitting through the Goldbergs, myself.

Who will be this year's Evgeni Bozhanov, I wonder? (Most clownish expressions.) Who will conduct from the piano whenever one of their hands goes idle?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


Have you studied any of his piano works?
Do you have any CD of his piano works?

According to wiki he seems to have a total of three piano works.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
My impression of Julliard (70s, 80s) has always been that, rather than a conservatory, it is more like a college which aims for multi-oriented artists in the fields of contemporary, jazz, chamber music as well as drama, modern dancing, and singing. Also a place where hardworking, discipline, excellence being not as vital a priority as compared to Russian, Italian, French conservatories. I imagine the atmosphere at Julliard as a rather casual/free/friendly training environment.

Hence, I am a bit surprised to see so many Julliard competitors and really curious about how will they do against their European counterparts.
I don't think more than one will advance to the finals. Even one being a surprise for me.

Edit: My candidate would be Sara Daneshpour.


Your impressions about Juilliard could not be further from actuality. It is one of the most competitive conservatories in the world. The standard of excellence there is as high as any, and anyone without the ability to engage in unflagging and disciplined hard work will not make it there. I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-oriented" artists, but students at Juilliard tend to be totally focused on their major instrument.

Far from being a rather "casual/free/friendly training environment," the competition at Juilliard is intense. Students arrive highly accomplished already, and many are performing professionally while still there. The peer group is outstanding, especially in piano, but broadly in all instruments, and there is a "best of the best" spirit that infuses the institution. Rigor, rather than casualness, predominates.

As Mark C points out, Juilliard attracts (and produces) so many highly accomplished pianists. It is not an anomaly that several are always in the Van Cliburn competition, as well as other major global competitions.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: Hakki
My impression of Julliard (70s, 80s) has always been that, rather than a conservatory, it is more like a college which aims for multi-oriented artists in the fields of contemporary, jazz, chamber music as well as drama, modern dancing, and singing. Also a place where hardworking, discipline, excellence being not as vital a priority as compared to Russian, Italian, French conservatories. I imagine the atmosphere at Julliard as a rather casual/free/friendly training environment.

Hence, I am a bit surprised to see so many Julliard competitors and really curious about how will they do against their European counterparts.
I don't think more than one will advance to the finals. Even one being a surprise for me.

Edit: My candidate would be Sara Daneshpour.


Your impressions about Juilliard could not be further from actuality. It is one of the most competitive conservatories in the world. The standard of excellence there is as high as any, and anyone without the ability to engage in unflagging and disciplined hard work will not make it there. I'm not sure what you mean by "multi-oriented" artists, but students at Juilliard tend to be totally focused on their major instrument.

Far from being a rather "casual/free/friendly training environment," the competition at Juilliard is intense. Students arrive highly accomplished already, and many are performing professionally while still there. The peer group is outstanding, especially in piano, but broadly in all instruments, and there is a "best of the best" spirit that infuses the institution. Rigor, rather than casualness, predominates.
Exactly.
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:34 AM

Good afternoon.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug

As Mark C points out, Juilliard attracts (and produces) so many highly accomplished pianists.


True.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
It is not an anomaly that several are always in the Van Cliburn competition, as well as other major global competitions.


Yes it is!
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


Have you studied any of his piano works?
Do you have any CD of his piano works?

According to wiki he seems to have a total of three piano works.


I know him more from his orchestral and choral works, especially Rainbow Body which made a huge splash when it won the 2003 British Masterprize in competition.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:06 AM

Originally Posted By: landorrano
Good afternoon.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug

As Mark C points out, Juilliard attracts (and produces) so many highly accomplished pianists.


True.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
It is not an anomaly that several are always in the Van Cliburn competition, as well as other major global competitions.



Yes it is!


Good news then for those who have raised their skepticism against Juilliard in this thread.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:09 AM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


Have you studied any of his piano works?
Do you have any CD of his piano works?

According to wiki he seems to have a total of three piano works.


I know him more from his orchestral and choral works, especially Rainbow Body which made a huge splash when it won the 2003 British Masterprize in competition.


Really? Isn't it quite surprising that he has been commissioned for a piano competition.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


Have you studied any of his piano works?
Do you have any CD of his piano works?

According to wiki he seems to have a total of three piano works.


I know him more from his orchestral and choral works, especially Rainbow Body which made a huge splash when it won the 2003 British Masterprize in competition.


Really? Isn't it quite surprising that he has been commissioned for a piano competition.


Not really. He was trained as a pianist and I have heard from those who have heard him play, he is quite accomplished. The 2005 Cliburn had piano pieces by several contemporary composers, including Jennifer Higdon whose instrument is the flute.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Good afternoon.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug

As Mark C points out, Juilliard attracts (and produces) so many highly accomplished pianists.


True.

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
It is not an anomaly that several are always in the Van Cliburn competition, as well as other major global competitions.



Yes it is!


Good news then for those who have raised their skepticism against Juilliard in this thread.
What you quoted is not news...it's one poster's opinion.
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:08 PM

Is anyone trying to watch? All I keep getting is the "teaser." It is supposed to be on right now. aaarrrrgh!
Posted by: Goldberg

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: opus119
Is anyone trying to watch? All I keep getting is the "teaser." It is supposed to be on right now. aaarrrrgh!


Me too! It's annoying...the one time I'm actually available and online to watch it live!
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:14 PM

Listen via http://www.ktcu.net (click on "Listen Live" at the top).

Not surprisingly, the webcast is DOWN!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:15 PM

Well, I sure hope they get their technical issues solved ASAP!!!
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:19 PM

To quote the SDC:

diz webcazt iz a bit :comme:

tru
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:20 PM

Listening on KTCU. Live radio stream.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:21 PM

It's working for me now as well. Who is playing? 101 fugue now.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
It is not an anomaly that several are always in the Van Cliburn competition, as well as other major global competitions.
Yes it is!
Good news then for those who have raised their skepticism against Juilliard in this thread.

Not if it isn't really an anomaly, which it isn't. smile

Is it an anomaly that so many people from, say, Yale Law School wind up in politics and on the Supreme Court, or is that the school attracts and produces people who are geared for those things?

Is it an anomaly that so many football players from, say, Ohio State U. wind up in pro football?

Is it an anomaly......heck screw it, you don't need any more analogies. grin
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:28 PM

Claire Huangci is playing. I am getting video but no sound:(
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:30 PM

.....I'm getting the whole thing with no problem, here. She's playing Mendelssohn's Fantasy in F# minor (right now, recap of 2nd mvt).

edit: Now in the last mvt.....dunno how good anyone else might be, but all I can say is I feel bad for anyone who plays this well who doesn't win. She's super.

2nd edit: Now Rach.....wonderful also. If she keeps playing like this for the whole competition, I don't see how she doesn't make the finals. But then again I might feel like saying that about way too many people.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:42 PM

Agreed, she's great. She (unfortunately) hasn't had the best luck in competitions, but she may go far in this one.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:42 PM

Rach G# minor: To die for.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 12:54 PM

We sure have different tastes.

To me this is just robotic playing without any personality. With such facilitated fingers I wished she had a good teacher who would teach her how to make real music. What a pity.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:04 PM

To me, not robotic at all.
("Diff'rent strokes for different folks.") smile

This guy now: Good but not as good.

Edit: Looking forward to hearing if he plays the rhythms of the last 2 mvts of the 6th Partita 'as written' or interpreting them as triplets. If he does the latter I'll be impressed. smile

BTW, liking him better as he goes along, including that he's doing some nice ornamentation in repeats. Before, I felt like he was 'trying too hard,' and pushing to 'do' things that sounded forced and stressed.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Agreed, she's great. She (unfortunately) hasn't had the best luck in competitions, but she may go far in this one.

Getting to the 3rd stage of Chopin is not a small accomplishment! Don't recall the first two rounds much, but I felt she was rather disconnected with the music in the 3rd (and oh my, doing both Chopin sonatas in one round plus the pol-fantasy - awkward programming!). Also surprising to see someone these days take the repeat in op. 35 not from the first measure but from the 5th - people should know better nowadays.

In any case, the little I heard of her now, three years after the Chopin competition, sounded very accomplished.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:10 PM

Oh no, Scipione is conducting with his left hand.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:10 PM

...a la Katsaris!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:12 PM

He is definitely more connected with the music. What matters for me in the end is, am I feeling myself as if I am listening to this at an atmosphere where it was originally performed. And with this guy it is close.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
...a la Katsaris!
Maybe he'll do Katsaris's "the thinker's pose" with his fingers under his chin?
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:47 PM

I liked it. The programming might have been more of a connoisseur's approach, but it was great nonetheless.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:48 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Brendan
...a la Katsaris!
Maybe he'll do Katsaris's "the thinker's pose" with his fingers under his chin?


Yes, we've termed that "il Penseroso", heh.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:53 PM

One advantage to the new format -- you can put together something like that Bach/Busoni program and still have another prelim recital to show something like a Beethoven Sonata.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 01:53 PM

Terrific camera work IMO. All the different angles are interesting and the switching between them seems done at an appropriate rate. Also, none of the two inches away from their face views.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:09 PM

Neat to be hearing some CLEMENTI! (And very well played.)

I have to admit, without looking at the program I didn't know what it was. I recognized it as being something I've looked through and never heard otherwise -- but couldn't recall it as Clementi. From the opening I was guessing Scarlatti but not with confidence.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Neat to be hearing some CLEMENTI! (And very well played.)


Wow! This is just terrific!!
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:14 PM

Agree. A very interesting sonata and performance.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:17 PM

Great Clementi! I'm compelled to learn it.
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:22 PM

Looks like it went down again.

Was enjoying the Clementi... http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y44BXehdCqg/UKHDCdILy_I/AAAAAAAABeE/clLl9SeND9M/s1600/3ps5zq.jpg
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:26 PM

Feed is working fine for me. Nice to hear Schumann op. 13. which we will also hear twice in the Semis, if Huangci and Chernov advance.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:27 PM

Awesome Clementi, but her balance of sound in the Schumann is too thick too often. The theme was great, but the variations don't seem to vary enough.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Awesome Clementi, but her balance of sound in the Schumann is too thick too often. The theme was great, but the variations don't seem to vary enough.


Yes indeed. The Schumann is not very good until now. But I also suspect from the broadcasting quality. There are some distortions in the sound. I hope they are not applying some sort of normalizing, compression etc. broadcasting technique on that live feed.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:36 PM

XI was very beautiful.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:41 PM

I loved the whole thing!
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:42 PM

Oh, good coda, thick sound was suitable again.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:42 PM

However this was one of the cleanest versions I have ever listened to. Bravo.
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:43 PM

I also can't click on "Interviews and Featurettes", "Competitors",....nothing
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:46 PM

Really quite a striking performance. I am not very fond of this particular Schumann and have heard many boring performances. This performance was not boring at all. I loved her tempos. It has made me rethink my attitude towards it.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Awesome Clementi, but her balance of sound in the Schumann is too thick too often. The theme was great, but the variations don't seem to vary enough.

I thought the Schumann was wonderful - plenty of variety in the variations - Etude XI was absolutely exquisite.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
However this was one of the cleanest versions I have ever listened to. Bravo.

Ditto !! thumb
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:51 PM

Aww am I the only one can't see anything?? frown
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 02:53 PM

I'm with Brendan, Myra, and Carey: I thought the Schumann was fabulous.
Posted by: vers la flan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 03:12 PM

Hi all,

I really enjoyed Rana's Schumann a lot. There was an emphasis on inner voices that I hadn't ever really noticed before. In one variation her pedal releases were pretty harsh, though, making a noticeable thump and reverberation in the strings. I hope that doesn't count too much against her, though, as I'd like to hear more from her.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: CleverName
Aww am I the only one can't see anything?? frown


Try a different browser...if nothing works complain at Cliburn Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/thecliburn
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 03:18 PM

Good call...it works in Safari, and *was* working in Firefox, but no longer. Shrug. Thanks!
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm with Brendan, Myra, and Carey: I thought the Schumann was fabulous.


I only heard the end, but I add my voice.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:08 PM

Lin's Bach is not Bach, but a Bach imitation.

Edit: And an almost amateur level start to the Mendelssohn. Continuing in a similar manner. Not to be expected in a competition of this caliber.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:22 PM

Steven Lin's Bach Overture - particularly the opening section - was impressive !! But it seems like he lost a little steam as the performance progressed...

Now listening to the Mendelssohn.......
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:27 PM

Lin seems nervous to me. It was almost like he expected bigger applause after the Bach, and he was a little discomposed as he began the Mendelssohn.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:30 PM

He must calm down, or he will loose this phase altogether.
Meaningless rush. And unfortunate support from the less acknowledged audience. Hope it does not reflect to his Vine Sonata.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:33 PM

Two Mendelssohn Op. 28 in one day and I'd never heard this piece in 50 years of concerts before! I really like this piece. Dubal calls it Mendelssohn's second greatest work.

Is Lin playing the same piano as the others played today? Maybe I'm just in a better listening mood than earlier, but all the others before Lin sounded a bit too thick or overpedalled in general. And Lin is the first one where I really like the tone all the time...hence the question if the piano is a different one?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:35 PM

Nope. He is too nervous to make it. Vine is not going well too.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Two Mendelssohn Op. 28 in one day and I'd never heard this piece in 50 years of concerts before! I really like this piece. Dubal calls it Mendelssohn's second greatest work.

Is Lin playing the same piano as the others played today? Maybe I'm just in a better listening mood than earlier, but all the others before Lin sounded a bit too thick or overpedalled in general. And Lin is the first one where I really live the tone all the time...hence the question if the piano is a different one?


The announcer said he's playing the Hamburg Steinway but I haven't been paying attention to what anyone else has been playing.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Two Mendelssohn Op. 28 in one day and I'd never heard this piece in 50 years of concerts before! I really like this piece.....

Yes, not often enough played. I've heard it a fair amount, but that's because I seek it out. I've heard Perahia perform it. And also BTW the Cliburn winner in 1981 featured the piece at the competition. It was the piece that was played at end of the TV broadcast of the final announcements, while the credits were scrolling.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:39 PM

Is he the only competitor playing the Vine sonata? He's clearly in for making a big show out it, but he's ignoring a lot of details and rushes horribly - he was close to having some serious slips.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Two Mendelssohn Op. 28 in one day and I'd never heard this piece in 50 years of concerts before! I really like this piece.....

Yes, not often enough played. I've heard it a fair amount, but that's because I seek it out. I've heard Perahia perform it. And also BTW the Cliburn winner in 1981 featured the piece at the competition. It was the piece that was played at end of the TV broadcast of the final announcements, while the credits were scrolling.

I was going to mention Perahia, but you beat me to it.

It's a fantastic piece! I thought Lin did very well.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:41 PM

Competitors "choose from two American Steinways and two Hamburg Steinways". That's all I know.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Is he the only competitor playing the Vine sonata?


Yes.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: fnork
Is he the only competitor playing the Vine sonata?


Yes.

Thank god.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:44 PM

The Vine is really getting more of a garbage and banging.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Two Mendelssohn Op. 28 in one day and I'd never heard this piece in 50 years of concerts before!

Same here !!

Quote:
I really like this piece. Dubal calls it Mendelssohn's second greatest work.

It certainly is appealing and substantial !!!!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:50 PM

I'll be interested to hear if Lin can do a convincing Reminiscences de Don Juan in the next round.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:50 PM

Using Twitter has been an interesting, but pretty neat form of media to follow this competition, along with Facebook, Piano World, and the live streaming on the website itself. smile Does anybody else here use Twitter? If you by chance do, follow me @OrangeSodaKing (surprise, surprise :P)
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:51 PM

Linsanity returns!!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Is he the only competitor playing the Vine sonata? He's clearly in for making a big show out it, but he's ignoring a lot of details and rushes horribly - he was close to having some serious slips.

You obviously know the piece !! For someone like me (an amateur) who was hearing the Vine Sonata for the very first time - without benefit of following the score - Lin's rendition was impressive. But then - that's ultimately up to the judges to decide.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:53 PM

As much as I liked the Vine Sonata, I don't get the last three or four notes? They sound almost comical after all the seemingly more serious and dramatic music before?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 04:58 PM

I'm not sure this piano is doing Koziak any favors. There are times I can barely hear his left hand.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:01 PM

Thanks to Martin that he brought back fine music making.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Linsanity returns!!


Now in two cities in Texas!! (Since Jeremy Lin was traded to the Rockets last year)
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:04 PM

Marcin Koziak - Once he got into it, there were some beautiful moments in the Scherzo !!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Thanks to Martin that he brought back fine music making.

I see what you mean !!!!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:08 PM

That was a lovely Nocturne.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:08 PM

A very elegant pianist.
Posted by: Opus_Maximus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:12 PM

I wish I had more time to follow this than I do, but here are my impressions of the first four I've seen so far. I'll go ahead and preface this by saying this is probably the most impressive group of competitors I've seen in a row in any competition, ever.

Claire Huangci - Really charmingly elegant pianist, with a nimble technique and musicality.
Everything she did was shaped naturally and beautifully.

Scarpio - I enjoyed him...more of a "musician's musician" than the others who've played today. (Though perhaps just his choice of rep gave that impression). Introverted and non-flamboyant...

Beatrice Rana- FANTASTIC!! Never heard of her before, but she was exquisite in every way..and bonus points for playing Clementi (which is hardly ever played) and making it so convincing. If she keeps up this standard, she might fulfill Brendan's initial prediction of winning the competition.

Steven Lin - He sounded impressive at first..but the more I listened the more I felt like his playing was too intense for the sake of being intense - like he was trying to prove to everybody how much darkness is in his soul. This might have worked better for some early Rach or Scriabin..but did not bode will with his two relatively light pieces (Bach and Mendelssohn...I much preferred Huangci's Mendelssohn).
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:31 PM

Though a fine performance, he is yet to experiment more with Rachmaninoff style pedaling. His lines are too detached. Unfortunately, I am not convinced with this performance so far. He has learned the notes and playing the score, but not the music. He really does not feel it.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:36 PM

Koziak's Rachmaninov -WOW!!!!!!
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:37 PM

I like the Rachmaninov.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 05:48 PM

So (according to the webcast) Evgeni Bozhanov did not want to talk to the media and newspaper feature stories had to be written "around" him by talking to his host family and others. Why is that not surprising?
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:05 PM

I loved the Rachmaninoff a ton.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:07 PM

a lot of mistakes already in the Liszt sonata.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:07 PM

I was impressed with McDonald's Haydn but so far he is letting the Liszt Sonata get away.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:18 PM

Idk, I think Liszt is pretty good. There are occasionally incorrect notes, but I can't imagine ever playing it without wrong notes. It's powerful.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
You obviously know the piece !! For someone like me (an amateur) who was hearing the Vine Sonata for the very first time - without benefit of following the score - Lin's rendition was impressive. But then - that's ultimately up to the judges to decide.

I dont know, I think even without following the score, what you hear comes out as bangy and lacking in nuance most of the time. Of course, if you do know the score, you quickly realize that here's someone who doesn't care much about tempo markings, dynamics, inner voices (where did the accents in the middle register aroudn page 2-3 in the first movement disappear?) etc etc but is more obsessed with creating a "flashy" impression. Didn't hear the previous pieces in his program, however.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: OSK
Idk, I think Liszt is pretty good. There are occasionally incorrect notes, but I can't imagine ever playing it without wrong notes. It's powerful.

It's a little too labored sounding for my taste. Maybe he can summon some energy at the fugue and salvage this.



edit: no, this is slipping away
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:25 PM

I know the piece pretty well, too. In fact, my friend played this for his senior recital a couple years ago. smile
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:26 PM

I've never heard a Liszt Sonata that didn't sound labored, except maybe Laplante. But I have heard it played flawlessly, by Khozyainov who's playing it in the second round.

McDonald does have a beautiful, singing tone.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:31 PM

Martha Argerich is my favorite Liszt Sonata. Laplante's is also amazing.

But for a Cliburn competitor, I think this was great. I haven't heard Khozyainov, but I'm excited to smile
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:38 PM

Zuber did a pretty good Liszt sonata at the Rubinstein competition. I'll be interested to hear Fei-Fei Dong's version.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:41 PM

Fine decent playing of the Liszt sonata by McDonald, but not up to the competition standards.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:42 PM

Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 38th anniversary today !! wink
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 39th anniversary today !! wink


Congratulations on your anniversary !

Don't worry, you didn't miss much.
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki


Don't worry, you didn't miss much.

Fine decent playing of the Liszt sonata by McDonald, but not up to the competition standards.

Though a fine performance, he is yet to experiment more with Rachmaninoff style pedaling. His lines are too detached. Unfortunately, I am not convinced with this performance so far. He has learned the notes and playing the score, but not the music. He really does not feel it.


The Vine is really getting more of a garbage and banging.

Nope. He is too nervous to make it. Vine is not going well too.

He must calm down, or he will loose this phase altogether.
Meaningless rush. And unfortunate support from the less acknowledged audience. Hope it does not reflect to his Vine Sonata.

Lin's Bach is not Bach, but a Bach imitation.

Edit: And an almost amateur level start to the Mendelssohn. Continuing in a similar manner. Not to be expected in a competition of this caliber.

Yes indeed. The Schumann is not very good until now.

To me this is just robotic playing without any personality. With such facilitated fingers I wished she had a good teacher who would teach her how to make real music. What a pity.


I'm all for critical listening, but sheesh...:)
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: carey
Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 39th anniversary today !! wink


Congratulations on your anniversary !

Don't worry, you didn't miss much.


Thanks - that's good to know !! smile
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 07:13 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 38th anniversary today !! wink


HAPPY HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!! laugh
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I have never heard of Theofanidis, or the names Kresiler mentioned.


Really? That's quite surprising. Theofanidis is pretty well known.


Have you studied any of his piano works?
Do you have any CD of his piano works?

According to wiki he seems to have a total of three piano works.


I know him more from his orchestral and choral works, especially Rainbow Body which made a huge splash when it won the 2003 British Masterprize in competition.


Really? Isn't it quite surprising that he has been commissioned for a piano competition.


Here's a clue for you: he was born in Dallas, Texas.

But, regardless of that, no, it's not surprising he was commissioned for a piano competition. After all, it only takes one composition to demonstrate whether one has the ability to compose for the instrument or not, and he's written more than that, including a substantial multi-movement concerto.

Here's a solo piece of his, which, whether you like it or not (and you won't, since it is not an antique museum piece and the composer is not yet dead), does show that he is unlikely to seriously embarrass himself or the Cliburn with this commission -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNLJ3bQzZVE
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:43 PM

Beethoven trumps Bones.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 08:53 PM

His Beethoven second movement is quite enchanting.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:00 PM

Unbelievable.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:01 PM

Anyone else having trouble with the performance continually breaking up?
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:02 PM

That was my unbelievable comment. At the worst possible moment, too.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:03 PM

Not in the last 20 minutes, no.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:03 PM

I loved his Arietta.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:14 PM

Yes, it broke up there at the end of the Chopin.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:18 PM

I missed the Beethoven, and only heard part of the Chopin - but I thought the Prokofiev was well played !!
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:29 PM

Prokofiev is good, but not the second half of Beethoven and Chopin. Missed the first half of Beethoven; busy doing my homework then.

Haydn is too heavy so far. Wish a bit more of wit, color, and humor here and there.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:32 PM

Does anyone else hear that creaking noise? Is it coming from the piano? Maybe the pedal mechanism?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:35 PM

Good God, he's waving like the Queen at a parade.
Posted by: Quaver Pyjama

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 09:51 PM

Oh GODDDDD
He blocked............ frown
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Does anyone else hear that creaking noise? Is it coming from the piano? Maybe the pedal mechanism?


Soft pedal is my guess.

Also quite a few times he doesn't release the sustain cleanly.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Quaver Pyjama
Oh GODDDDD
He blocked............ frown


How badly? I swear it sounded like he was improvising for about 4 minutes.

But Mndoyants' Chopin op. 61 sounded like that to me too...and he looked pleased at the end of his recital.

It's been awhile since I listened attentively to either work.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:09 PM

This performer is difficult to watch. He looks like he's miserable up there.
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:11 PM

I really loved this Schumann.
Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Quaver Pyjama
Oh GODDDDD
He blocked............ frown

Who? What? I missed it!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:17 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
This performer is difficult to watch. He looks like he's miserable up there.


I think that's his version of looking joyful. When he started out he looked like a happy little kid.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:19 PM

https://twitter.com/TheCliburn/status/338087635375493122/photo/1

Alex McDonald leaving by the stage door. He looks downcast.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:19 PM

They just interviewed Steven Lin and he did say he got nervous before he performed and he wished a few spots had gone better in his recital.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:19 PM

The interview with Steven Lin was a little difficult to watch. Not sure about some of those questions.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:34 PM

This Beethoven E flat major is fantastic!! laugh Goodness gracious, this competition is STACKED this year!!
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:34 PM

If I could play 1/1000th of these pianists, I'd be a happy camper!
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 10:37 PM

Nice username, opus119 wink
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 11:08 PM

Loved the Liszt ballade. (Greco)
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 11:10 PM

The video and audio isn't quite synced here. Anyone else?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/24/13 11:11 PM

Greco was certainly a crowd pleaser.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Damon
The video and audio isn't quite synced here. Anyone else?


Hasn't been synced all day !!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:52 AM

A local music critic summarizes the day's performances.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/05/24/4882399/critic-italian-beatrice-rana-already.html

"Luca Buratto of Italy ... gave a playful account of a Haydn sonata and would have helped himself with some abridgement in a Schumann fantasy that rambled on too long."

Meaning what, that he stuck some extra passages in the Schumann? I thought so too, it sounded like he was kind of stuck and forced to play some stuff over and over, but I don't know the piece well enough to know if that was the case. You don't normally "abridge" a work of music, you play all the notes that are on the page.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:53 AM

"Alex McDonald of Dallas gave a performance that was impressive for its virtuosity — he even gave Lin a run for the money — but was not always convincing artistically. The Liszt Sonata in B minor never seemed to rise above the status of a technical exercise."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/05/24/...l#storylink=cpy

I thought the opposite, I thought he was convincing artistically but his virtuosity wasn't up to snuff, for that piece.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:58 AM

The Dallas music critic summarizes the day's performances, but evidently he left before Giuseppe Greco.

http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/...rmance-hall.ece
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:03 AM

Hmmm, I'd still have to say that Rana and Huangci were my overall favorites today. Greco also had some fine moments, but most everyone else didn't really do it for me.

(Too many facial expressions and mouthing, not enough music)
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:06 AM

I liked Huangci and Rana as well, currently listening to Steven Lin's Vine sonata. He takes it pretty fast..let's see how it turns out.

Quite excited to hear some of these performances!
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:12 AM

Steven Lin's Vine sonata is a bit disappointing, it's pretty much the opposite of how the piece should be played (like Joyce Yang's rendition too). The Vine sonata should be rhythmic, driving, full of large sonorities, and most importantly, in careful time. Metric modulation is a key compositional technique used by Vine here, and the piece was originally conceived as ballet music. Rushing and romantic gestures do it a disservice (there's actually an explicit direction in the score to avoid tempo rubato and romantic phrasing unless otherwise indicated, and to take indicated metronome markings as exact tempi, not suggestions).
Posted by: AldenH

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Hmmm, I'd still have to say that Rana and Huangci were my overall favorites today. Greco also had some fine moments, but most everyone else didn't really do it for me.

(Too many facial expressions and mouthing, not enough music)


Glad that I caught both of them in first webcast today, then! They were both very striking in different ways, and the competitor in between them suffered from his good company.

I can't wait until tomorrow: I've been at PianoTexas in Fort Worth, getting psyched for the Cliburn by festival masterclasses (Bernd Goetzke is a god in mortal guise) and concerts, but I had to run down to Houston and I missed the first day of the competition. I will be making notes and posting as we continue on this wild ride...
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: carey
Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 39th anniversary today !! wink


Congratulations on your anniversary !

Don't worry, you didn't miss much.


Hey, you can't talk about his wife that way!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:26 AM

Ok. I am listening to the evening session from the on demand page.

Nikita Mndoyants:

Solid, reliable, balanced performer. His Beethoven was good and Prokofiev too. Chopin was also nicely played with some emphasize on inner voices, but the ending could have been better.
Overall, not a spectacular performance, but definitely a pianist that you won't go wrong.

Now the next performance...
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:15 AM

Luca Buratto:

The Haydn was just a flat out uninteresting performance, without spirit, dynamics and all the elements that would make a Haydn sonata a Haydn Sonata.

Well nothing much to say about the Schumann, it just doesn't grab you and you get bored after awhile.

On a side note, I had to listen to him without watching the video after a few minutes.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:05 AM

Giuseppe Greco:

Beethoven, not to my taste. Overall too rushed, without much attention to detail and phrasing.

Liszt, he certainly has the chops for it. Musically it was not as deep.

Debussy, well the crowd was very pleased, if that matters.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:10 AM

To sum up the first day.

I would like to hear more from:

Huangci
Rana
Sangiovanni
Mndoyants
Koziak
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:39 AM

Huangci has come across as competant and some what detached but not any more. She's a new person! Exquisite Rach preludes and a spirited Kapustin.

I would include Koziak, Mndoyants and Rana in my short list.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: carey
Unfortunately, I missed McDonald's performance - had to go out and buy flowers for my wife - our 39th anniversary today !! wink


Congratulations on your anniversary !

Don't worry, you didn't miss much.


Hey, you can't talk about his wife that way!

grin ha
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:11 PM

Is anyone else just getting yesterday's stream? I can't seem to find the live stream going on right now...frustrating.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: opus119
Is anyone else just getting yesterday's stream? I can't seem to find the live stream going on right now...frustrating.


Refresh the page.

Same thing happened to me, I missed the first couple minutes of this contestant.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:12 PM

Getting the live stream now at http://cliburn.org/landing.html , though there were a couple hiccups.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:15 PM

Wow! Wonderfull Liszt playing from POLIYKOV. Very impressive indeed.

edit: they cranked up the volume. why do they do this? The sound quality was just okay. Now it is a bit distorted.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:23 PM

For me it was just the opposite -- the Liszt was coming out of my computer sounding muffled even when I turned the volume up. Now I can adjust the volume back down and it sounds much clearer.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:27 PM

Mine gets out of sync from time to time too. I thought it was my computer.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:37 PM

They are yet to solve the sync problem.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
They are yet to solve the sync problem.


Their facebook page says they are working on it.
Posted by: Works1

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:48 PM

Poliykov Pitures at an Exhibition, very nice!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:51 PM

Whew! The exhibition is over.

Not a very good choice for a competition. Though there were a few slips Poliykov managed to deliver a good performance of it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:51 PM

Hopefully Jade won't tell any dirty jokes or bash any competitors, they are catching some of her "off-mic" comments.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:53 PM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Don't know about Pictures. Could be a game ender.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:56 PM

Modest tempo for the Haydn.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Modest tempo for the Haydn.


YES.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:00 PM

Thats risky.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:03 PM

I hate to nit pick, but I would like him to stay off the pedal just a little more.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:13 PM

IMO stylistically incorrect for the Haydn. The Schubert/Liszt should be better.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:30 PM

I'm liking Kuan-Ting's delicate touch on the Liszt, and the Schubert/Liszt.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:36 PM

He doesn't look too happy.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:37 PM

He did get a bad case of overeager applauders just a few seconds before...
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
He doesn't look too happy.


And he shouldn't be either.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:39 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
He did get a bad case of overeager applauders just a few seconds before...


That was hilarious. His fault for throwing up his hands like that so melodramatically.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:41 PM

Even if one is not happy with their performance, they should at least smile and acknowledge a very appreciative audience.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Even if one is not happy with their performance, they should at least smile and acknowledge a very appreciative audience.


Right. Its called professionalism.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:02 PM

Interesting. No applause after the Mozart Fantasia. Right into the Brahms.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Interesting. No applause after the Mozart Fantasia. Right into the Brahms.


The audience didn't know it was over. Waiting for a possible 2nd movement...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:14 PM

This performer (Nikita Abrosimov) is one of the two replacements for the original two contestants who dropped out. (Yekwon Sunwoo is the other one.)
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:17 PM

I didn't know that.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:18 PM

Looks like everyone is playing either the Hamburg Steinway or American Steinway. Any other pianomakers represented?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
Looks like everyone is playing either the Hamburg Steinway or American Steinway. Any other pianomakers represented?


No.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:27 PM

This sonata always seems so much longer than 25-26 minutes.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:31 PM

Jade's having some trouble gettter her facts straight.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:33 PM

Anxious to hear Sean Chen. Wishing him well.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:41 PM

Do you know what happened to Sakata 19 years old Japanese pianist? Is he playing today? I just came back to see him and nothing is on now.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:45 PM

I believe Sakata's not on until the afternoon session (3 PM Central time)
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Anxious to hear Sean Chen. Wishing him well.

Ditto on that! I'm very happy about some of his repertoire choices - the Bartok etudes and Hammerklavier in particular, having studied and performed them both myself (though not to Cliburn competition level, ha!)

Is he performing today?
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 02:59 PM

Sean Chen is performing tomorrow at 3:50pm Central Time. For a full list of performers and times for the first prelim, check out This Dallasnews link
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:00 PM

As I know nothing about computers, I have a basic question about the live streaming from the VCC.

Today there was zero problem, last night I gave up because there would be long 1-2 minute periods when the live stream stopped, yesterday afternoon was not much of a problem...about 5 second delays every minute. Is there any way of getting more consistently good reception by doing something from my end?
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:01 PM

A lot of it's down to your ISP and their connections, along with the Cliburn and their bandwidth. I think one thing you can do is make sure you're not downloading any large files or doing any other resource heavy stuff at the same time that you're trying to stream.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:03 PM

Thank you. Phew! I thought I missed him. I have never heard him play but locals say that he is the future of classical music in Japan.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:26 PM

As far as applause between movements, audience seems to be on best behavior. Especially after KT Lin finished "Orage", then complete silence before "Vallee de Obermann". That would never happen on the concert stage at Walt Disney LA.
Posted by: Schubertslieder

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 03:42 PM

Glad to see many Americans in this competition.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:00 PM

19 yo and playing the Appassionata at the Cliburn. Ah to be young again.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:02 PM

Opps. Thought I saw F minor. Sorry. Still I'm jealous.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:13 PM

The Beethoven was amazing !!!
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:20 PM

His Dante sonata sounds awfully straight...I wish he injected more freedom and fantasy into his playing! (so far)
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
The Beethoven was amazing !!!



Yes. And the Dante is very convincing until now too.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:22 PM

Hahaaa, the Dante Sonata is pretty convincing up until this point anyways, the piece itself gets weak around its development.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:23 PM

The Dante is losing steam/verve.

And speaking of programming, I'm not sure why you'd program La Campanella right after the Dante. Oof.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:27 PM

Congratulations on the tuner too. The piano is holding fairly well.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:28 PM

I agree. The souls wailing in heck have lost their wail, with a few split notes thrown in.

Risky playing something so well known as Campanella early on.
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:28 PM

I don't know, I don't mind having the Campanella afterwards - it's a lot lighter than the Dante, so it is a welcome contrast.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:29 PM

BUSONI CAMPANELLA?! (is it?)

EDIT: nvm, it's not
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:33 PM

So whose version is this? Seems totally different from well known version(s)?
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:34 PM

My friend and I just found it, it's the 1st version - from the transcendental etudes after Paganini. It's S140, not the usual S141.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:35 PM

Was that the Hamelin Campanella? (Edit: nevermind, saw other post.)

At first I thought he was nervous, but now I just think he's careless. He's ending these pieces really carelessly and abruptly. Maybe it's youth.
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:35 PM

It's #3 from the Transcendental Paganini Etudes, here:

Liszt Campanella
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:37 PM

I believe it is the Busoni arrangment.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:38 PM

He is risking too much. And he will probably pay for his carelessness.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:40 PM

Scriabin not erotic enough...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:41 PM

Hard to be convincingly erotic at 19.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:42 PM

Not an excuse if you live in Japan. :P

I kid! (not really actually).
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:45 PM

And I always tell my students, "Bow IN FRONT of the bench!"
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:46 PM

This audience is way too easy. Sorry but that recital did not deserve a standing ovation.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:50 PM

Lindsay is a Yale alumnus like Sean. Glade to see she will be playing the American Steinway.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:52 PM

Who is operating this mixer?
Is this rocket science to turn a knob from Jade's mic to the announcer's mic.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:53 PM

Love Lindsey's Game of Throne-sy outfit. Looking a bit Cersei Lannister out there.
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:53 PM

I love the phrasing on the contrasting second theme in the ballade. I've heard it so many times through practice room walls, but I never liked those ones.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:54 PM

Kuan, I think you would like to hear the Scriabin from her.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:54 PM

I am just so glad my country man Sakata completed his pieces well. Don't want to see anyone have memory problems. Next up is a woman from US, my adopted country:) It's so much fun.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Hard to be convincingly erotic at 19.
thumb
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 04:58 PM

So far she has my vote.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:00 PM

So far her Liszt is rather bloodless for me. (Dead.)
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
Love Lindsey's Game of Throne-sy outfit. Looking a bit Cersei Lannister out there.


It's a little distracting. I'm having trouble concentrating on her playing.....

I don't know the Ballade all that well - but she seems to be doing a beautiful job with it. Looking forward to the Schubert.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
So far her Liszt is rather bloodless for me. (Dead.)


What (in your opinion) is lacking???? Just curious.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:06 PM

I thought it was very good.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
So far her Liszt is rather bloodless for me. (Dead.)


What?
It was just fine for me.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:07 PM

I thought that was a rather wonderful performance. A piece, sadly, I dislike intensely and she made it very interesting and listenable for me.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:08 PM

She has a very mature sound. Schubert sounds wonderful so far.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
So far her Liszt is rather bloodless for me. (Dead.)


What (in your opinion) is lacking???? Just curious.


For me it had no zest, and not much sense of momentum.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
She has a very mature sound. Schubert sounds wonderful so far.


Agreed !!!!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:14 PM

This is mysterious to me...maybe it's the piano. But this is a beautiful, lovely piece and she's not bringing much warmth of tone to it. I'd like to hear Alex McDonald play this, he had a wonderful, singing tone.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:14 PM

Liszt is not an important composer for me (sorry). Just a necessary evil for competitions. Beethoven separates the amatuers from the professionals.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:14 PM

I am mesmerized.
Posted by: Works1

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:16 PM

My favorite non-Sonata Schubert piece and she is playing it beautifully!
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This is mysterious to me...maybe it's the piano. But this is a beautiful, lovely piece and she's not bringing much warmth of tone to it. I'd like to hear Alex McDonald play this, he had a wonderful, singing tone.


I think part of what she is doing, at least for me, is drawing me in to listen, as an intimate secret. I love it! (The Schubert).
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This is mysterious to me...maybe it's the piano. But this is a beautiful, lovely piece and she's not bringing much warmth of tone to it. I'd like to hear Alex McDonald play this, he had a wonderful, singing tone.


I think part of what she is doing, at least for me, is drawing me in to listen, as an intimate secret. I love it! (The Schubert).


Agree +2. Love her playing.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:18 PM

I think the audience is tone deaf!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:25 PM

Funny - as I was listening to her play the Schubert, I wondered if she'd programmed ANYTHING by Bach for the competition.......and she didn't. Somehow I just had a hunch that Baroque music might not be her forte. In fact the "oldest" work that she's programmed is the Mozart K.333.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:33 PM

Unfortunately, the 2nd movement of the Prokofiev has been interrupted twice now by signal loss.

Certainly an engaging performer !!!
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:37 PM

What a pity making dirty just the last note! smile

I appreciated her: good sound and virtuosity, quite complete artist... not just an athlete, as the impressive body may suggest!
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:38 PM

I think she advances.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:38 PM

Didn't have any signal loss here. And, WOW!!!
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:39 PM

I really liked her performance. Very mature playing. Wonderful stage presence.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:39 PM

She is good. And wish she had a better ending with the Prokofiev.
Nevertheless I would like to hear more from her.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:41 PM

The last movement of the Prokofiev was a dissapointment for me...she started so loud and fast there wasn't anywhere to grow to.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:41 PM

The tension build in the ending of the Prokofiev was brilliant. One long line without cessation. Her clarity gets a +1.

At first I was taken by the Hamburg-D but now I think I prefer the NY-D.

I've only heard these two instruments. What are the other two?
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:42 PM

Her Prokofiev was quite good. She took some chances and thus lost some control, which I think is fine. She brought out quite a few interesting things, which I like a lot. Just overall she was too nice for my taste. I hope she can advance so that I can hear more from her.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:42 PM

I felt the final movement of the Prokofiev was somewhat lacking in momentum and excitement - not that she didn't do a great job with it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty


At first I was taken by the Hamburg-D but now I think I prefer the NY-D.

I've only heard these two instruments. What are the other two?


There are two Hamburgs and two Americans to choose from.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:42 PM

I was expecting more with the last movement of the Prokofiev 7th. She didn't quite knock it out of the park.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:44 PM

People who want to hear more from her - you will, in the second recital, Phase II. Everyone gets two recitals before the first cut.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:44 PM

Thanks Eduard!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:45 PM

You're welcome.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
People who want to hear more from her - you will, in the second recital, Phase II. Everyone gets two recitals before the first cut.

Thanks - that's good to know !!!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
People who want to hear more from her - you will, in the second recital, Phase II. Everyone gets two recitals before the first cut.


I don't know about others, but when I say this I mean I will be listening to her other recital too. Whereas I won't be bothering to listen to S.Lin, Buratto and Sakata once more.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:51 PM

The Precipitato was lacking, but then I heard it live played by Yefim Bronfman and I can't get that sound out of my head.
Posted by: AZNpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:52 PM

Looking forward to the Adams...
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 05:52 PM

I watched a video of Lindsay the other day (youtube). Schumann Fantasie. I felt that she started out very strong but had some control issues in the second movement. It was obvious that she is a very thoughtful, gifted musician. It seemed like her nerves were maybe getting the best of her (in the Schumann), so I was so happy to see her perform SO WELL today! She seemed very much in control and if nerves were a factor, they certainly weren't apparent. Looking forward to her next performance!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Looking forward to the Adams...


Yes, I enjoyed that. Poor Kholodenko, no applause.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: opus119
I watched a video of Lindsay the other day (youtube). Schumann Fantasie. I felt that she started out very strong but had some control issues in the second movement. It was obvious that she is a very thoughtful, gifted musician. It seemed like her nerves were maybe getting the best of her (in the Schumann), so I was so happy to see her perform SO WELL today! She seemed very much in control and if nerves were a factor, they certainly weren't apparent. Looking forward to her next performance!

Agreed. I did not hear her entire performance today, but parts of it was indeed very well played (very good Schubert!) and the control issues I took note of in her youtube clips were not as much apparent now.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:05 PM

I heard what I had to hear, Kholodenko is on my list.
Inpatient to hear his second recital already.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:06 PM

Wow, this Rach 1st sonata is SO slow... I guess John Ogdon spoiled me, haha.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:10 PM

Kholodenko - Rach - Beautiful voicing, both melodically and chordally. Musically very mature. I'm going to be following him.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:11 PM

Yes, I'm liking Kholodenko. I don't know this piece but he's convinced me he knows what he's doing. He won an international Schubert competition last year but is not playing any Schubert here.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:17 PM

Maybe too early to say, but Kholodenko might head for the finals.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: opus119
..... so I was so happy to see her perform SO WELL today! She seemed very much in control and if nerves were a factor, they certainly weren't apparent.

Perhaps she felt we "had her back." smile
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:21 PM

Even if I consider such a program a "tactic choice" for competitions... I must admit that I remain stunned listening to him and watching his hands...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:21 PM

Groan.

That was about 40% too much back for me.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: titowsky
Even if I consider such a program a "tactic choice" for competitions... I must admit that I remain stunned listening to him and watching his hands...


Agreed, this performance is mesmerizing. He's completely inhabiting the music.
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Wow, this Rach 1st sonata is SO slow... I guess John Ogdon spoiled me, haha.


Ha! It's because when you play it live, sometimes you automatically go into safe mode ..... and take slower tempos than you usually would....
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:29 PM

I love the facial expressions in the 'march.' He's so into it!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:34 PM

That was brilliant. And he has such a humble appearance.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:35 PM

Magnificent!
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:38 PM

If he makes the semifinals Kholodenko's got the Franck Quintet and 11 of Liszt's Transcendental Etudes lined up (all but #9, maybe due to time constraints).
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
If he makes the semifinals Kholodenko's got the Franck Quintet and 11 of Liszt's Transcendental Etudes lined up (all but #9, maybe due to time constraints).

I do hope we'll get to hear him play the Liszt etudes! A little odd that Ricordanza is left off - but perhaps it really is a time issue.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 07:21 PM

Scott Cantrell at Dallas News seems even more crotchety than 4 years ago. So far from his reviews I've learned:

-That the Bach-Busoni transcriptions are "pompous" and should never have been composed in the first place.
-More generally, any Bach played with crescendos or any hint of romanticism is an abomination.
-Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #9 is "trashy" , so should be played that way.
-The Liszt B-Minor Ballade is "empty bombast" that even a pianist finding "magic gardens of sound" can't redeem. Meanwhile, Lizst's Dante Sonata is "pompous, pretentious twaddle". Why do I get the impression he doesn't like Liszt that much?
-The Rachmaninoff First Sonata is rarely played "for good reason".
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 07:31 PM

Wow, those are incredibly ignorant comments of him...
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 07:55 PM

Those are not the first ignorant comments from Scott Cantrell. It is fun to guess which liner notes, from which issue, that he is paraphrasing in a review. A musician? I don't think so. Once in Kansas City he "reviewed" the floral arrangements at a recital. He 'reviews' rather than offering a valid critique.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 07:58 PM

Well, everyone has their opinions. I find a certain portion of Liszt virtually unlistenable, same for some Busoni. I don't like the Hungarian Rhapsodies. The pieces coming up in the competition I am NOT looking forward to:

Grunfeld Soiree de Vienne, op. 56 (Sunwoo)
Kreisler-Rachmaninov Liebesfreud (Garritson, if she makes it to the Semi)
Kreisler-Rachmaninov Liebesleid (same)
Spanish Rhapsody
Wagner-Liszt Overture from Tannhauser

And more classical works:

Mozart Variations on a Minuet by Duport, K. 573
Mozart Variations on Gluck, K. 455

Also the Eroica Variations which Alessandro Taverna is beginning with tonight make my skin crawl.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:02 PM

I wonder what he's going to say about Khozyainov's Liszt-Busoni Marriage of Figaro.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I wonder what he's going to say about Khozyainov's Liszt-Busoni Marriage of Figaro.


That they should get divorced.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:13 PM

Not the worst idea ever.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Scott Cantrell at Dallas News seems even more crotchety than 4 years ago. So far from his reviews I've learned:

-That the Bach-Busoni transcriptions are "pompous" and should never have been composed in the first place.
-More generally, any Bach played with crescendos or any hint of romanticism is an abomination.
-Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #9 is "trashy" , so should be played that way.
-The Liszt B-Minor Ballade is "empty bombast" that even a pianist finding "magic gardens of sound" can't redeem. Meanwhile, Lizst's Dante Sonata is "pompous, pretentious twaddle". Why do I get the impression he doesn't like Liszt that much?
-The Rachmaninoff First Sonata is rarely played "for good reason".


"Pompous," "trashy," and "empty bombast??"

Perhaps Cantrell is describing his own reviews !! ha
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:27 PM

Moving on to tonight. For those who complain about the same old programming...First up is Taverna, and he's playing Medtner, Ligeti and Messian (and Mendelssohn).

Nikolay K. will surprise you, if you have not heard him before.

Deljavan is playing a Bach Partita and Chopin Etudes. Looking forward to this evening!
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: opus119
Moving on to tonight. For those who complain about the same old programming...First up is Taverna, and he's playing Medtner, Ligeti and Messian (and Mendelssohn).

Nikolay K. will surprise you, if you have not heard him before.

Deljavan is playing a Bach Partita and Chopin Etudes. Looking forward to this evening!


Meant to SAY that his NEXT preliminary recital has Medtner, Ligeti, etc. So sorry......
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:30 PM

Okay, Mr. Taverna. I've been incredibly intrigued by your program, and in a good way. But now we get to see what you're all about...
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:37 PM

Oh my goodness!!! His playing of this Beethoven is absolutely unbelievable!! Riveting, exciting, masterful!!! Love it!!
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Oh my goodness!!! His playing of this Beethoven is absolutely unbelievable!! Riveting, exciting, masterful!!! Love it!!


YES!
Posted by: kippesc

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:57 PM

Elegant playing by Taverna. He's one of small number of contestants (maybe 2 so far) to choose a NY Steinway rather than a Hamburg. I was beginning to think it was because the NY Steinways might not be as controllable, but this guy seems to have no problem getting exactly the sound he wants out of the piano.

Greensleeves! Cool. I've not heard this piece before.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:59 PM

It suddenly feels like Christmas.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 08:59 PM

I didn't know Busoni wrote Christmas music. smile
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:04 PM

It's bizarre that everything is from something else for the whole program.

He's not doing it for me at all.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:06 PM

I love Busoni's White Christmas and his Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire!
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:09 PM

Because when you think "Turandot", you think "English Folk Music"!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:10 PM

Who doesn't love Busoni's chestnuts?
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:11 PM

I couldn't agree more, OSK. Taverna's performance of the Eroica Variations was out of this world. The only other Beethoven I've heard that I enjoyed nearly this much was Claire Huangci's Op. 101.

Passing by the Busoni (which, even in the interest of non-tradtional programming, seems a bit out of place here), I'm listening now to his Petrouchka. Not as brilliant or as accurate as Haochen Zhang's rendition in the last Cliburn, but plenty good enough to get him to at least the semis IMHO.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:13 PM

This Petrouchka isn't doing it for me as much as Sean Kennard's last week in the Queen Elisabeth. I highly recommend that performance (on video on their website) as well as his Mozart concerto which I loved.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:16 PM

There are EIGHT Petrouchkas programmed for this competition.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:17 PM

I agree that the Petrushka may not be the best, but still, it's masterfully done. It's incredibly colorful and orchestral. But the Beethoven and Busoni were truly legendary. You all also know me well, and he gets bonus points in my book just for programming a work by Busoni in the first place. But seriously... Isn't that such a nice piece? laugh
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:19 PM

I'd advance him just to hear the Alkan Symphonie (he's doing it, right?)

The dude with the etude-mishmash+Gaspard is up soon!
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
[...]Isn't that such a nice piece? laugh


Sorry, OSK. Gets a "meh" from me.
Posted by: Works1

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:22 PM

Get ready for a treat with Nikolay!
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:23 PM

Watch G#2 (I think... bass key) is not level. (Sorry. Just had to say something. It's been bugging me.)
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Watch G#2 (I think... bass key) is not level. (Sorry. Just had to say something. It's been bugging me.)


laugh You just can't get good pianos anymore!
Posted by: ChrisKeys

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Watch G#2 (I think... bass key) is not level. (Sorry. Just had to say something. It's been bugging me.)

Argh! Now *I* see it!
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:33 PM

The Haydn is truly an elegant performance.

(That G# was bugging me all through Taverna's performance. At least they touched up the A-3 unison in the break.)
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The Haydn is truly an elegant performance.

(That G# was bugging me all through Taverna's performance.)


Yup. As soon as I saw it, I couldn't not see it anymore.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:36 PM

PARTY STARTS NOW!
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:37 PM

Thank god that's over
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:38 PM

LOL, unexpected ovation after the Chopin. The tour de force continues...
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Thank god that's over


LOL! A programming mistake if ever there was one.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:40 PM

It's weird, his Feux Follets sounds like Berezovsky, just heavier. Though he's like 50lbs lighter than Berezovsky probably... interesting use of inner voices.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
[...]Isn't that such a nice piece? laugh


Sorry, OSK. Gets a "meh" from me.


You get a "meh" from me!! Just kidding, of course wink wink

Nikolay Khozyainov has a much more standard program, (less interesting, I'm afraid), but he is actually very good, too. This competition really is stacked this year...
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:43 PM

Khozyainov is one very talented young man. He's just a kid!
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
It's weird, his Feux Follets sounds like Berezovsky, just heavier. Though he's like 50lbs lighter than Berezovsky probably... interesting use of inner voices.


I liked it. There was a little bit that was uneven but was still okay.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:48 PM

He actually played pretty well, just the programming was hilarious! I'm not liking his balance of hands with Ondine though..Where's the moon? The waves?
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:49 PM

I do not like his Ondine either. The voicing is problematic.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 09:54 PM

Left and right hands out of sync in the Feux Follets early on then it was a race to the end.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:00 PM

I didn't get any waves either.

Scarbo starting now ... not liking the approach much. The imagery is not there for me. Too literal. It's also slower than I thought he would play it.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:02 PM

Seems like Khozyainov is have a few mishaps in his Scarbo. Anyone know why he programmed so many etudes?
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:05 PM

I'm really impressed by the people doing the camerawork...lots of little nice touches like the zoom in on the far left of the keyboard right before a low passage in Scarbo.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:06 PM

Scarbo - WOW!

He not only proved his chops, but did it with quite a range of styles.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:09 PM

The Haydn was definitely a mistake in programming...I've completely forgotten that he played it after he went through his tour de force...

I had some issues with his playing, but he's really young and talented, so we'll see what happens to him..
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:10 PM

He is talented, but didn't seem like he was an absolute master of every aspect. Some parts were a bit much, and he executed well, but not masterfully. I'm still sold on Taverna. Just my humble two cents...
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:10 PM

Well my feed locked up. looks like nothing but Chopin etudes anyway, good night.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:13 PM

Sorry to be jumping around out of sequence, but I just caught Lindsay Garritson's performance. This is a serious musician. It can be hard to find the music in Liszt's 2nd ballade, but she did. Lovely rubato and dynamic shading in the softer parts, not too much sound in the louder parts. I've never heard the Schubert before and thought it was beautifully played. Gorgeous, intimate tone and graceful shaping of phrases.

The Prokofiev was a mixed bag. I thought the first movement was wonderful -- sharp, crisp staccato alternating with mysterious slower themes. As for the finale, though I didn't find it lacking in "momentum", it did seem like it started very loudly and left little room for the titanic buildup one expects from the last several pages. Nonetheless, I look forward to hearing more of her playing.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:13 PM

Important quiz:

1. What American figure skater does Cozy Enough look like?

2. What top ten in the world chess player does Tavern look like?
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:17 PM

It's interesting that some of you are concerned by programming. I keep thinking that it is a competition, rather than a recital. I appreciated the spectrum of programming from Khozyainov. It shows his command and range.

He's only twenty! There's a ton of talent there.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Important quiz:

1. What American figure skater does Cozy Enough look like?

2. What top ten in the world chess player does Tavern look like?



2. Topalov? and why is it important?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By: opus88
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Important quiz:

1. What American figure skater does Cozy Enough look like?

2. What top ten in the world chess player does Tavern look like?



2. Topalov? and why is it important?
The "important" part was a joke.

Topalov is not the look alike for Tavern.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: opus88
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Important quiz:

1. What American figure skater does Cozy Enough look like?

2. What top ten in the world chess player does Tavern look like?



2. Topalov? and why is it important?
The "important" part was a joke.

then it must be Aronian or Topalov without the goatee

Topalov is not the look alike for Tavern.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
He actually played pretty well, just the programming was hilarious! I'm not liking his balance of hands with Ondine though..Where's the moon? The waves?


What's the "actually" for? Nikolay was a finalist (one of ten) at Chopin in 2010 at age 18; he won Dublin last year and placed second at Sydney.

I listen to him quite a bit, and he always brings it. I thought his Haydn was pretty much perfection. I've heard him play the Chopin and Feux Follets a little better, but that's because I listen to him a lot. I thought his control tonight was superb.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:37 PM

Oh no, I'm just saying that in spite of his insane programme, he did a good job with it! Sorry about that. The idea of putting the three etudes in front of Gaspard is like a competition gimmick IMO, but he got through it well and I'm not trying to take anything away from what he did.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:37 PM

Deljavan - Bach - Can't watch him without cracking up. Eyes closed, very odd Bach. Too Mozartian.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:38 PM

Deljavan seems to have gotten just a bit of a haircut between his pre-competition photo and now.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:47 PM

Okay.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:49 PM

Deljavan's Bach had good amount of articulation. His fingers were hammer-like, which is a good approach for Bach. For Chopin, his fingers and hands approach differently because of different music.

His Bach was odd and not natural because his rhythm was problematic and there were quite many "holes" here and there.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:50 PM

Deljavan seems to be singing some opera only he can hear.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:51 PM

I love all three of the ladies who have played so far. I also enjoyed both Taverna and Mndoyants.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:52 PM

Thus far, the etude interpretations are interesting - and unique. His facial contortions are a real distraction, however.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:54 PM

I am LOVING the etudes right now. Op. 25 is one of my favorite piano works ever, and he giving them the full bodied, almost boisterous sound that they deserve.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:56 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
His facial contortions are a real distraction, however.


Perhaps he's this year's Evgeni Bozhanov.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:57 PM

Yes, the facial expression was pretty crazy. I like his etudes so far as well.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:58 PM

There is something strangely impressionistic about Deljavan's Chopin. I can't put my finger on it, but I find it confusing. I think it might have been better on the NY-D.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 10:59 PM

Seven was exquisite.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
His facial contortions are a real distraction, however.


Perhaps he's this year's Evgeni Bozhanov.


I've already started employing the same defense mechanisms I did for Bozhanov (keep the video window securely minimized and enjoy the music).
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:03 PM

Beautiful etudes. Musical, expressive, great technique subordinated to the music.

Unfortunately offset by the extreme facial mannerisms.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
His facial contortions are a real distraction, however.


Perhaps he's this year's Evgeni Bozhanov.


I've already started employing the same defense mechanisms I did for Bozhanov (keep the video window securely minimized and enjoy the music).


Excellent.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:07 PM

"Butterfly" (#9)- not so great.

Seems to be struggling a little with "Winter Wind"
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:07 PM

Ummmm... Is he rolling the left hand chords or what? I hear some grumbling in the bass that I shouldn't.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
It's interesting that some of you are concerned by programming. I keep thinking that it is a competition, rather than a recital. I appreciated the spectrum of programming from Khozyainov. It shows his command and range.

He's only twenty! There's a ton of talent there.


As I'm sure you know, one's own program can work to one's advantage or disadvantage. Using your comments as a springboard, I would say Khozyainov's program showed technical command across the board, but also showed some lack of depth, or, perhaps, understanding in the Scriabin and Ravel. The Haydn was gorgeous all the way around, but to end with an impressionist piece that had very little impressionist moisture and color is a good example of one's own program working to one's disadvantage. I have no doubt he will grow into Ravel.

The first few pages of this thread included a good deal of discussion and speculation regarding the "politics" and "strategy" of programming.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:14 PM

Further apologies for jumping around, but here's a late entry re: Vadym Kholodenko. This was a very interesting program, played with grace, heart and intelligence. I really felt for the guy when the end of his John Adams piece was greeted with stony silence. OK, so the music was mildly interesting for the first minute, then degenerated into the same, repetition-for-its-own-sake style Adams made famous. But the playing was finely nuanced, and watching his hands playing on top of each other with what sounded like flawless tone articulation was fascinating.

Although I've been working on the Rachmaninoff 2nd sonata (2nd movement only) for a while, I've only heard the 1st sonata one other time. I had no preconceived notions as to how fast the piece should go or what it should sound like, but I was very impressed with Kholodenko's performance. The tone was golden, the musical lines were well conceived and executed, and the music was much easier to listen to than Scott Cantrell seems to think. My only concern about this gifted pianist is that he seems to hold a lot of tension in his upper body when he plays. This is hard to understand, since his arms and fingers appear perfectly relaxed and fluid, and it shows in his wondrous tone. During the first half of his program, his shoulders appeared tight as a drumhead. But by the time he got to the sonata's march movement, he opened up and gave the audience some truly memorable playing.

Finally, this seems like a good place to add congratulations to the marvelous camera work being done for the competition. The director(s) have a real flair for finding just the right times to concentrate on hands and faces. I loved watching Kholodenko's face at around the 29:00 mark when he started mugging (in a playful, non-Bozhanov kind of way) to give emphasis to the rhythm of the music. A round of beers for the control booth!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:16 PM

Couldn't believe how quickly he jumped from Winter Wind into the Ocean !! Whew !!

I think he had better luck with the first 7 etudes than he did with the final 5.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
but to end with an impressionist piece that had very little impressionist moisture and color is a good example of one's own program working to one's disadvantage.


Wow, I could not disagree more.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Further apologies for jumping around, but here's a late entry re: Vadym Kholodenko. This was a very interesting program, played with grace, heart and intelligence. I really felt for the guy when the end of his John Adams piece was greeted with stony silence.


They've been saying in the webcast that he preferred no applause after the Adams, that he wanted to segue right from the Adams to the Rachmaninov because he felt the two pieces really spoke to each other.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:22 PM

My teacher programmed Op. 25 on several occasions when she was younger. She said the endurance needed was absolutely unbelievable. She mentioned that she started really feeling the fatigue when she got to the Etude in Sixths (#8).
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:25 PM

Alessandro Taverna is the boss of me and has my permission to take over the world. LOL!!!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Further apologies for jumping around, but here's a late entry re: Vadym Kholodenko.

the 1st sonata ...... I had no preconceived notions as to how fast the piece should go or what it should sound like, but I was very impressed with Kholodenko's performance.


Agreed. I am not really predisposed to like Rachmaninov solo piano works but I thought his performance was lovely, even masterful.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:27 PM

The Chopin Etudes are so familiar to me that I don't really want to hear giant chunks of them performed in competition. I have no problem hearing one here and there but all of either opus tends to exhaust my ears and bore me.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:29 PM

Thus far, I'm putting Kholodenko's Rachmaninoff at the top of the chart.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:30 PM

Only got back in time to hear Op 25 No 12 and it was choppy. Not in a good way. I prefer the arpeggios here to be like big rolling waves. Now to hear earlier programming ...
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
but to end with an impressionist piece that had very little impressionist moisture and color is a good example of one's own program working to one's disadvantage.


Wow, I could not disagree more.


That is one thing that makes discussion forums so interesting! smile

Let me just add that I thought his playing of the Scriabin and the Ravel was incredibly clean and far too precisely dry. There were things I expected to hear come from the piano that I did not hear. That's all. The man is brilliant. No doubt. I am looking forward to the next performance of his!
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The Chopin Etudes are so familiar to me that I don't really want to hear giant chunks of them performed in competition.

That's exactly how I would describe No. 12. Chunky.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Thus far, I'm putting Kholodenko's Rachmaninoff at the top of the chart.


I'd like to put Garritson's Schubert up there somewhere, too.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Thus far, I'm putting Kholodenko's Rachmaninoff at the top of the chart.


I'd like to put Garritson's Schubert up there somewhere, too.

It's hovering mighty close!
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Further apologies for jumping around, but here's a late entry re: Vadym Kholodenko. This was a very interesting program, played with grace, heart and intelligence. I really felt for the guy when the end of his John Adams piece was greeted with stony silence.


They've been saying in the webcast that he preferred no applause after the Adams, that he wanted to segue right from the Adams to the Rachmaninov because he felt the two pieces really spoke to each other.


I heard them say that. Perhaps they interviewed him back stage after his performance. But lacking that, how do they know what was on his mind? As Marisa Tomei said in "My Cousin Vinny," this explanation "does not hold wattah." It's hard to imagine how these utterly different pieces "speak to each other." As to their suggestion that this was a planned "segue", he paused for a full minute between pieces (noticeably longer than other conpetitors who didn't leave the stage at the same point). Whatever spell he was trying to cast was broken when he pulled out his handkerchief and wiped his brow, after a long, awkward silence.

I just think the audience didn't appreciate the Adams. Neither did I.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/25/13 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Further apologies for jumping around, but here's a late entry re: Vadym Kholodenko. This was a very interesting program, played with grace, heart and intelligence. I really felt for the guy when the end of his John Adams piece was greeted with stony silence.


They've been saying in the webcast that he preferred no applause after the Adams, that he wanted to segue right from the Adams to the Rachmaninov because he felt the two pieces really spoke to each other.


I heard them say that. Perhaps they interviewed him back stage after his performance. But lacking that, how do they know what was on his mind? As Marisa Tomei said in "My Cousin Vinny," this explanation "does not hold wattah." It's hard to imagine how these utterly different pieces "speak to each other." As to their suggestion that this was a planned "segue", he paused for a full minute between pieces (noticeably longer than other conpetitors who didn't leave the stage at the same point). Whatever spell he was trying to cast was broken when he pulled out his handkerchief and wiped his brow, after a long, awkward silence.

I just think the audience didn't appreciate the Adams. Neither did I.


Jade Simmons said she spoke to him about it. I don't recall if her words were "he didn't want applause there" but she definitely said he thought those two pieces communicated with each other.

I liked the Adams. I just think the audience doesn't know when an unfamiliar piece ends, and when the pianist begins mopping his brow, they feel like it's too late to applaud.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:53 AM

Guess Claire Huangci's Phase 1 recital didn't make the on demand list. Too bad, she was the very first competitor and gave a solid reading of Ludwig's Opus 101. Looking forward to her Phase 2 recital where she will play Pletnev's transcriptions of "Sleeping Beauty" by Tchaikovsky -- really difficult to pull off.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:47 AM

They were experiencing technical difficulties during Huangci's recital (the first of the competition), and the stream didn't start until roughly 15 minutes in. Maybe they're either fixing it or not wanting to put up something that starts in the middle of a recital.
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Damon
I didn't know Busoni wrote Christmas music. smile


He even wrote some piano music that was really supposed to be Christmas music (unlike this piece).

This was a wonderful and remarkable performance of this piece. Really first-rate Busoni interpretations aren't exactly easy to come by, and this was one, IMO.

It's good that the performances are available on demand. I have no interest in trying to follow the competition live, but am sampling some of the more interesting repertoire choices later. And so far, there are no technical issues in the video-on-demand for me.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:01 AM

Originally Posted By: wr
And so far, there are no technical issues in the video-on demand for me.


I came across a glitch in Sakata's Dante sonata. I prefer the on demand also, the sync between video and audio is better.
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick

I liked the Adams. I just think the audience doesn't know when an unfamiliar piece ends, and when the pianist begins mopping his brow, they feel like it's too late to applaud.


To me, it seemed that they had been asked not to applaud. There's no way that the entire audience (unless they are far more provincial than I imagine) would have kept quiet at that point unless there was some kind of specific cue.

I thought the Adams performance was quite beautiful - I kept thinking of how Debussy-ish it was, and what gorgeous sounds he was getting out of the instrument. Of course, since the jury seems to be mostly made up of reptiles and dinosaurs musical conservatives, he probably struck out with them.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: wr

I thought the Adams performance was quite beautiful - I kept thinking of how Debussy-ish it was, and what gorgeous sounds he was getting out of the instrument. Of course, since the jury seems to be mostly made up of reptiles and dinosaurs musical conservatives, he probably struck out with them.



John Adams is hardly a reactionary figure these days.

Now, if a competitor was to play Philip Glass...... grin
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Damon
I didn't know Busoni wrote Christmas music. smile


He even wrote some piano music that was really supposed to be Christmas music (unlike this piece).

This was a wonderful and remarkable performance of this piece. Really first-rate Busoni interpretations aren't exactly easy to come by, and this was one, IMO.

It's good that the performances are available on demand. I have no interest in trying to follow the competition live, but am sampling some of the more interesting repertoire choices later. And so far, there are no technical issues in the video-on-demand for me.


I agree, wr. I was happy the Busoni was programmed, but even more blown away that it was played well. It goes to show that sometimes, music that fell at the wayside did so unjustly, and not because of its quality.

Fortunately, I think all of these performances are archived. I think they are also made available for purchase on iTunes... I know exactly where I am heading soon! laugh I could download them for free, but I should do it the right way and purchase it legally.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick

I liked the Adams. I just think the audience doesn't know when an unfamiliar piece ends, and when the pianist begins mopping his brow, they feel like it's too late to applaud.


It didn't seem to end as much as it seemed to stop. It's a pretty piece but not really competition material, IMO.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:15 AM

Just a thought: The pause between the Adams and the Rachmaninoff has caused much interest here and at the competition. If it was meant to draw attention to a performance, it achieved its goal. The Rach sonata performance becomes even more noteworthy.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:30 AM

Listening to the evening session of second day from ondemand video, here are my impressions:

Alessandro Taverna:

Beethoven, not the sound I am looking for. Too much pedal at times, inconsistent tempo choices, unfinished phrases here and there, generally incoherent Nice trills though.

Busoni, nice execution, but the phrasing and incoherency problems are present here too.

Stravinsky, general tempo and rhythm problems present here too. Some places are not executed very well. Too much struggle.

Moving to Khozyainov....
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:18 AM

Khozyainov:

Haydn, a bit on the dry side. He could have used more pedal and dynamics.

The Chopin Etude is almost his trademark, he is executing it very well. Liszt had a few glitches, but generally well executed. Scriabin was the one that I liked the least. These etudes really need a Hamburg Steinway.

Gaspasd, he seemed to have some troubles with Scarbo.

IMO, New York Steinway does not fit his touch, he needs a brighter piano.

Nevertheless, he is on my list.

Next Deljavan...
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:19 AM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
They were experiencing technical difficulties during Huangci's recital (the first of the competition), and the stream didn't start until roughly 15 minutes in. Maybe they're either fixing it or not wanting to put up something that starts in the middle of a recital.

Hopefully that's the only reason it didn't make the on-demand. I thought it finals-worthy.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:52 AM

Welcome back Cliburnians!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:03 PM

BTW, just noticed that the webcast (including the associated features like the taped interviews and other features) is being produced by Lori Miller, who produced "They Came to Play" (about the '07 amateur Cliburn competition) and who has occasionally posted on our site. Great to see her back at the Cliburn! thumb
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:04 PM

Deljavan:


Bach, well it might be a personal taste, but I really don't like those little rubatos in Bach. His rhythms are almost spread everywhere. No need to waste time I think I will skip to the etudes right away.

IMO, the highlight of the set was no.7. And the middle part of no.10 was very good too. Generally the second half of the set was better because they were more suitable for his excessive rubato. However, at times his tone was too harsh for my taste.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:07 PM

To sum up the second day, for me it is:

Kholodenko
Khozyainov
Poliykov
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Khozyainov:

IMO, New York Steinway does not fit his touch, he needs a brighter piano.

Nevertheless, he is on my list.



He normally plays/prefers to play a Yamaha. He's a "Yamaha artist."
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:12 PM

Gillham is always an elegant pianist. I enjoy listening to him.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:13 PM

I liked his Bach a lot, including the little rubatos. grin

BTW, any bets on whether he'll take the repeat in the 1st mvt of the Chopin 3rd Sonata....

(I'm sure the judges and audience will appreciate if he doesn't.) ha

IMO it's one of the most beautiful pieces there is. But still.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:13 PM

Gillham - Bach - Rhythmically very accurate with good articulation and phrasing. Hewett like. Recit was odd and a bit romantic. Good performance.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:19 PM

"Why the Chopin B minor sonata is harder than the Liszt B minor sonata"

A blog post by Stephen Hough.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/ste...B_minor_sonata/
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:27 PM

Is Gillham nervous? While generally fine, some weird things also happened so far.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Is Gillham nervous? While generally fine, some weird things also happened so far.

Yes.

He seemed to be sailing so comfortably, and then these things suddenly happen. (At least suddenly to my ears; didn't notice any touch of it before.)

First thing I noticed: He sort of left out a beat or half a beat near the beginning of the dev. section -- as though this were an LP and it "skipped." And then in the recap there was a strange clinker.

Nothing bad by usual standards. But for this event, those things stand out. And they did sound "nervous" (as you said).
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:32 PM

He wore a shirt that perfectly matches the felt inside the piano.

He doesn't look nervous.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:33 PM

Oh dear, audience really doesn't know this piece. Ha!

Hint: He's in the final work. His recital will end at approximately 11:45. You shouldn't be clapping at 11:33.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Oh dear, audience really doesn't know this piece. Ha!....

We like hearing applause after that 1st mvt. ha

About the 3rd mvt: He's doing the thing of playing the dotted rhythms almost like triplets, with the short notes not quite as short as written. I like him, but I hate that. To me, those kind of short notes should (almost) never be any shorter than the literal value -- if anything, shorter, but not longer.

We're talked about this on other pieces, like the Chopin Funeral March (from the 2nd Sonata), also the F minor Fantasy (the opening) and even talked about oscilloscope measurements of what different people do there....
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:40 PM

I am stressed waiting on my feet for another memory slip.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:43 PM

I'm not feeling particularly worried about that.

But, IMO he held that last chord of the 3rd mvt way too long, so long that I had to wonder if the video froze. This movement and the next have more continuity than that.
And he waited way too long after the intro of the last mvt.

I'm feeling disappointed about a lot of details. I was surprised how 'nothingly' he marked the surprise modulation to E-flat major (after the second appearance of the theme).

Ouch on those downward cascades at the start of the coda.
The finish was good otherwise.

I had 'picked' him in advance as a finalist. But I don't think he gets beyond this round.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:49 PM

I'm sure there were a few points in that he'd like to have back, but I don't think I heard anything disqualifying.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C


I had 'picked' him in advance as a finalist. But I don't think he gets beyond this round.


Don't forget he still has one more recital before the first cuts.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:51 PM

I didn't forget. smile
I think that in this field, some of what happened already will be very hard to overcome.

And not so much the slips per se, but the nervousness that they seemed to reflect. I would think that one of the things they look for, big-time, is poise, and in this field, there's plenty of that to go around. I think it will also count that the nervousness (presumably it was the nervousness) made him miss some musical aspects.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:51 PM

I don't know, whether these kind of slips are forgiven, but if not he will have problems. I missed for the left hand voices that he left out at the final movement.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 12:55 PM

A performance like that in the Chopin Competition and you'd be gone, for sure.

On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Boris Giltburg had a massive memory lapse in his Mozart concerto in the Queen Elisabeth competition (which in my mind is more prestigious than the Cliburn, I have no idea what the rest of the world thinks) and advanced to the finals, which shocked me.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:06 PM

In my opinion Eric is really suffering in Chopin's op.10 n.1, and n.2 is not relaxed ...arghhh.... bit of panic... he is trying to save himself with inner voices...
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:06 PM

Things are not going well for Zuber.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:08 PM

Yeah he seems nervous. Calm down, calm down. Two major hiccups in #2. That's what #3 is for, to regroup.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:14 PM

#4 was perfect except for that small smudge on the last note.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:23 PM

Last notes of 4 and then 5, slips in 2 as I type one more slip in 7, and 8 performed quite well.

The jury (or at least some of them) have heard Nobuyuki Tsujii in the same set 4 years ago. It was wonderful musically.

Programing these etudes as a set are rewarding, but if you do exceptionally well, otherwise it works against you.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:29 PM

Also n10 has problems... the central part has changed tempo without real musical intention; anyway, the technical limits are often quite visible. (of course we are always talking about a very high level here)
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:31 PM

I love his heart and feel for these Etudes. Unfortunately, he is not "painting the corners today" as they say in another field of competitive endeavor. Love the sound and phrasing when its working, though, which it seems to be more often than not...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Programing these etudes as a set are rewarding, but if you do exceptionally well, otherwise it works against you.


Yes.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:41 PM

Zuber just didn't do it for me. I was dying for some melodic clarity and it just never surfaced. The Mozart was just plain dull. The Chopin muddled.

Based on the comparison today, I much prefer Gillham. His musicianship and understanding soared. Beautiful phrasing throughout.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:49 PM

Oh my goodness, Marty! Did you just hear our host spend time talking about programming? wink
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:51 PM

Aha! - The other Hamburg.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Oh my goodness, Marty! Did you just hear our host spend time talking about programming? wink

Yep - It's the competition game and strategy.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:55 PM

Bach damper pedal alert!
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:56 PM

My impression is that the judges always consider the contestant's programming choices as part of their evaluation of the performer. That this is a given(as I think it should be).
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 01:57 PM

At last proper Bach from Chernov who makes me feel as if I am listening in one of those places where Bach was performed at his time.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:16 PM

Oh, this is the Grieg waltzes guy.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:17 PM

This is the second of 5 scheduled Gaspards de la nuit.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Oh, this is the Grieg waltzes guy.


Interesting that our host would choose to segue into his performance with a note about what programming says about the person, no?

I am having an easier time catching the imagery in his playing of Ravel than that of that young fella from last night. wink
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:21 PM

What host? I must have missed that discussion.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
What host? I must have missed that discussion.


Hostess? Jade. In her introduction to this performance.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:32 PM

Chernov is definitely on my list. IMO he can make the finals.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Chernov is definitely on my list. IMO he can make the finals.


Yup. Can't wait to hear what he does with Grieg! grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:36 PM

Oh, Jade's been making comments about programming choices from the beginning. In fact what she and Buddy said about Khozyainov's programming was that in op. 10 no. 1, Feux Follets, and Scriabin op. 42 no. 5 he had chosen several little jewel-like pieces in a row, which Buddy said was something Van Cliburn also tended to do. I'm not reading too much into Jade's comments, her role seems to be to put a happytalk PR spin on everything.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:38 PM

I thought Chernov was solid but his interpretations didn't bowl me over. Certainly good enough to advance.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I thought Chernov was solid but his interpretations didn't bowl me over. Certainly good enough to advance.


It seems that you've joined PW just to post in this thread. Do they have a link on the Cliburn web site? smile
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:12 PM

Where is the link to listen to past performances? I want to hear this Rachmaninov 1st sonata.

And their website is unclear..
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I thought Chernov was solid but his interpretations didn't bowl me over. Certainly good enough to advance.


It seems that you've joined PW just to post in this thread. Do they have a link on the Cliburn web site? smile


No.

I'm really only interested in the competition threads. I like hearing new (or old) talent play in the competitions, and I generally do searches to see if anyone is talking about them in blogs or forums like this. I imagine I read through some threads here during the Chopin competition, but never joined in.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Where is the link to listen to past performances? I want to hear this Rachmaninov 1st sonata.

And their website is unclear..


http://www.cliburn.org/ondemand.html

Competitors listed on the left, Kholodenko is the Rach 1st sonata.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Where is the link to listen to past performances? I want to hear this Rachmaninov 1st sonata.

And their website is unclear..


If you found the live feed, just click on "view full webcast" and the performers will be listed on the left. Click a check-box by their name and their video will appear below the live feed. Click on that and it will replace the live feed.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I thought Chernov was solid but his interpretations didn't bowl me over. Certainly good enough to advance.


It seems that you've joined PW just to post in this thread. Do they have a link on the Cliburn web site? smile


No.

I'm really only interested in the competition threads. I like hearing new (or old) talent play in the competitions, and I generally do searches to see if anyone is talking about them in blogs or forums like this. I imagine I read through some threads here during the Chopin competition, but never joined in.


Well then, welcome to PW!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 03:24 PM

Thanks!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:06 PM

I heard this pianist playing in the grand lobby at Neiman Marcus the other day....

Only kidding. That was mean.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:07 PM

Do you have to be in your 80s to love Strauss paraphrases?

My dad would love this.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:10 PM

Good start from Sunwoo. Grunfeld performed nicely.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:13 PM

I'm not in my 80s and I love Strauss paraphrases!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:18 PM

I like his Beethoven. Very good indeed.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I like his Beethoven. Very good indeed.

So do I. Thoughtful, mature playing.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:22 PM

I thought the Beethoven started out lacking focus and cohesiveness, but it seems to have come together and I am enjoying it.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:28 PM

I with they could switch pianos in mid recital - I'm dying to hear the NY-D in the Wanderer.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:32 PM

Wonderful Wanderer too. He is on my list.

I am impatient to hear his Scarlatti, Schumann and Ravel.

Edit: Thanks for the correction ha
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:33 PM

Hakki - You're in the hospital ???
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:35 PM

I like him too... and I appreciated the choice of an old-fashioned Paraphrases. Sometime it is the case, why not?! smile
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:37 PM

If Strauss needs to be paraphrased, might I offer Rosenkavalier as more suitable?
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:46 PM

The Wanderer was beautifully played! I have nothing else to say.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:47 PM

That was a very convincing and melodic Wanderer, I thought. I liked Sunwoo's sound very much.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:50 PM

Ah....the guy who just played was the winner of the most recent William Kapell Competition.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:54 PM

Sean Chen's hands appear miniscule compared to some of the other contestants'.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:54 PM

Chen - French cuffs and no tie?
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:55 PM

I like the way the his Bach sounds on this piano! I can't wait to hear his Sarabande! Let's see....
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:56 PM

Ahhhh. I like.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Chen - French cuffs and no tie?


And an American flag pin. Send a tweet to Jade, she can ask him about his clothing choices when she interviews him. (Beatrice Rana's dress was handcrafted.)
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:02 PM

Lovely Bach.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:04 PM

Exquisite ornamentation work in Bach from Chen.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:07 PM

Awesome ornaments, great dance feeling, and beautiful voicing. Overall, excellent.
Posted by: Goldberg

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:09 PM

I'm so happy I was able to tune in to this afternoon's performances! Chen is fantastic. I saw his winning performance of Bartok 2 at APA a few weeks ago and was blown away! I hope he gets to the finals here.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:14 PM

Even the etudes have a great dance feeling. This is one of the best performances so far, IMO!
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:17 PM

Yes. One of the best interpreters so far. Very compelling.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:17 PM

Wow! I wonder if the people in the audience know just how truly demanding those etudes are.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:18 PM

I thought the Bartok were very strong.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:18 PM

Big shift in gears to the Chopin.
Posted by: Goldberg

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:19 PM

The Bartok were incredible, and already this first Chopin mazurka is captivating. I'm excited to hear the rest!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:23 PM

I'm lovin' the Mazurkas !!

and yes, the Bartok etudes were amazing !!
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:23 PM

So, he can play Chopin too.

The second round will bring the op. 106
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:25 PM

Great control of dynamics and rubato.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:29 PM

Those mazurkas were absolutely wonderful.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:29 PM

This is the second of three performances of Scriabin sonata 5.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
So, he can play Chopin too.

The second round will bring the op. 106


Separating the men from the other... men. grin Or, the adults from the other... adults. wink
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:37 PM

Will he wear Hammer pants?
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Ralph
So, he can play Chopin too.

The second round will bring the op. 106


Separating the men from the other... men. grin Or, the adults from the other... adults. wink


And so it will. The great equalizer can bring the best of them to their knees.


His Scriabin, btw, I think is wonderful.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:40 PM

Yeah, I think that was overall the best recital so far. It really had everything.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:41 PM

Top o' my list. With some others... grin
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:42 PM

Quite frankly I hope he wins.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:44 PM

Great! Also for me one of the best. No weak point, always interesting, mature and exciting!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:45 PM

Well, not the best of Chopin and Scriabin, but probably good enough to advance him. Of course it will also depend on how his Hammerklavier will come out.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Will he wear Hammer pants?


We can hope. I liked the blue shirt. But the nicest suit, so far, imho, goes to Khozyianov.
Posted by: opus119

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:51 PM

I think Jade is doing a great job! But...(as an added bonus, in addition to Jade)..wouldn't you love to see John Rubenstein as a "roving reporter"? I loved their commentary at the Tchaikowsky Competition. I miss him!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Will he wear Hammer pants?


We can hope. I liked the blue shirt. But the nicest suit, so far, imho, goes to Khozyianov.


Not to mention the nicest pocket square.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I thought Chernov was solid but his interpretations didn't bowl me over. Certainly good enough to advance.
It seems that you've joined PW just to post in this thread. Do they have a link on the Cliburn web site? smile
No.

I'm really only interested in the competition threads. I like hearing new (or old) talent play in the competitions, and I generally do searches to see if anyone is talking about them in blogs or forums like this. I imagine I read through some threads here during the Chopin competition, but never joined in.

No problem in any event! We always appreciate having dead people here. grin

BTW, I'd be interested in why you picked that for your user name. I know a bit about Hanslick but not that much. The main thing I remember is how much he HATED the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, and I thought his opinion on that sukked. smile


P.S. LOVING the discussion here, including because it gives me good images of the people I missed, and whets my appetite extra for their next appearances.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 05:55 PM

Hakki, I agree with you. He didn't blow me away either. Actually, I disliked his Bach.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:04 PM

I don't have the score, but why isn't Fei-Fei Dong using finger legato but only pedal legato in the Clementi Sonata.
Is it meant to be played detached?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
No problem in any event! We always appreciate having dead people here. grin

BTW, I'd be interested in why you picked that for your user name. I know a bit about Hanslick but not that much. The main thing I remember is how much he HATED the Tchaikovsky violin concerto, and I thought his opinion on that sukked. smile


Oh, I don't have an especially good reason. I had been reading some about Liszt, and listening to various renditions of the B minor sonata, and I happened to read Hanslick's comment about it:

"It is impossible to convey the nature of this musical monster in words. Never have I heard a more impudent or brazen concatenation of utterly disparate elements, such savage ravings, so bloody an assault on all that is musical. . . . Anybody who has heard this thing and liked it is beyond hope."

Which was funny (although I disagree with it, I actually love the sonata). So it was either Hanslick, or Mitsuko Uchida.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
[...] Actually, I disliked his Bach.


???

Marty, could you please elaborate?

(Personally, I didn't care for his timings in the Loure, and the Gigue kind of fell apart, but I thought it was very baroquely Bach-ie. crazy )
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
[...] So it was either Hanslick, or Mitsuko Uchida.


O, for crine-out-loud. Thanks for NOT using Mitsuko Uchida for a screen name. "Uchidafan," yes. Mitsuko Uchida, no! I mean, there are limits...
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick

So it was either Hanslick, or Mitsuko Uchida.


I think you chose wisely !! grin
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
[...] Actually, I disliked his Bach.


???

Marty, could you please elaborate?

(Personally, I didn't care for his timings in the Loure, and the Gigue kind of fell apart, but I thought it was very baroquely Bach-ie. crazy )

Andy, I tried to PM you, but your box is full. I knew you would react to my statement.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:18 PM

I don't get where Fei_Fei Dong is getting with the Schumann. The piece has lost its coherence IMO.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:18 PM

What's wrong with Mitsuko Uchida?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I don't get where Fei_Fei Dong is getting with the Schumann. The piece has lost its coherence IMO.


I tend to agree. It's not holding my attention, which surprises me. From her.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I don't get where Fei_Fei Dong is getting with the Schumann. The piece has lost its coherence IMO.


Part of that might simply be due to the episodic nature of the work itself !! smile
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
[...] Actually, I disliked his Bach.


???

Marty, could you please elaborate?

(Personally, I didn't care for his timings in the Loure, and the Gigue kind of fell apart, but I thought it was very baroquely Bach-ie. crazy )

Andy, I tried to PM you, but your box is full. I knew you would react to my statement.


Again?!? Sorry, Marty. I am too much a social butterfly. Try it now. Inquiring minds want to know!!! grin
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:24 PM

The whole program is on the low tide of musical substance. I keep wandering too. Pretty playing, but ....
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:25 PM

Andy, I'll respond at the break. See, you're wandering from this performance, too!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:25 PM

I can't focus on the Chopin as well. IMO, Fei-Fei Dong has some serious rhythm and phrasing issues.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
What's wrong with Mitsuko Uchida?

I believe the name is currently being used by someone else !! grin grin grin
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
The whole program is on the low tide of musical substance. I keep wandering too. Pretty playing, but ....


Gotta agree with you !!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
What's wrong with Mitsuko Uchida?

I believe the name is currently being used by someone else !! grin grin grin


Well if you want to get technical, okay.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:30 PM

Remind me, why do we need fools like this getting paid to spread their trash around?

"I admit it: I always dread the Cliburn Piano Competition for the inevitable onslaught of noisy, vulgar pieces by Franz Liszt.

I understand Liszt’s importance as a mid-19th-century musical innovator, and he did compose some fine music. But a lot of what gets trotted out at the Cliburn is all about showing how fast and how loudly one can play octaves, runs and chock-a-block chords. That, to me, is not music. The two performances so far of the B minor Ballade–awful piece–were two too many, and I find it hard to defend the pretentious–and prolonged–twaddle of “Apres une lecture de Dante.”

If I ran a piano competition, and at the risk of eliminating some worthy individual pieces, I would forbid performance of Liszt, period. Maybe that would encourage competitors to demonstrate virtues subtler than “anything you can play, I can play faster–and louder.”

Ugh."

~Scott Cantrell, from the Dallas News.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:31 PM

I thought her Rondo was quite nice. I forgot she's a sweater.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:32 PM

More variations on Bouncy and Bubbly!
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
~Scott Cantrell, from the Dallas News.

Posted by: CleverName

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Remind me, why do we need fools like this getting paid to spread their trash around?

"I admit it: I always dread the Cliburn Piano Competition for the inevitable onslaught of noisy, vulgar pieces by Franz Liszt.

I understand Liszt’s importance as a mid-19th-century musical innovator, and he did compose some fine music. But a lot of what gets trotted out at the Cliburn is all about showing how fast and how loudly one can play octaves, runs and chock-a-block chords. That, to me, is not music. The two performances so far of the B minor Ballade–awful piece–were two too many, and I find it hard to defend the pretentious–and prolonged–twaddle of “Apres une lecture de Dante.”

If I ran a piano competition, and at the risk of eliminating some worthy individual pieces, I would forbid performance of Liszt, period. Maybe that would encourage competitors to demonstrate virtues subtler than “anything you can play, I can play faster–and louder.”

Ugh."

~Scott Cantrell, from the Dallas News.



Yeah, he's a dick. I could say a lot more, based on what I've read of his in the past. But I'll just let my first sentence stand.


Does anyone know when we can expect to be able to watch any "interviews and featurettes?"
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:38 PM

There have been interviews between recitals, from what I've seen so far. Huangci and Rana were interviewed on air yesterday.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:38 PM

I'm digging the Gargoyles.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I'm digging the Gargoyles.


She finally showed us her "chops." Impressive !!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 06:42 PM

I was almost tired of this slow down, speed up circle, glad that it is over. IMO, this phase alone can't take her anywhere. The Liszt Sonata will solve the puzzle I think.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 07:26 PM

A late entry about Alexey Chernov. Wonderful Bach performance. The tempi were a little wayward for my taste, but the ornaments and voicing were spot on. I have a hard time connecting with late Scriabin, but his performance of the etudes was convincing. And Gaspard left me breathless. In so many ways, he reminds me of Grigory Sokolov: his all-business stage presence and intense concentration, the golden tone and precise dynamic control, even those beefy hands. I think we'll be listening to him a lot over the next two weeks.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
....I think we'll be listening to him a lot over the next two weeks.

.....and a couple of people were swearing he's mocking the event....

When one reaches such a conclusion in such a situation, the thing to do is to question the assumptions. smile
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

.....and a couple of people were swearing he's mocking the event....


+1. This should put an end to the catcalls about Grieg waltzes. He could play them backwards with one hand, followed by a Kuhlau sonatina, and still deserve high standing in this very talented field.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I can't focus on the Chopin as well. IMO, Fei-Fei Dong has some serious rhythm and phrasing issues.


She has some serious "shouldn't be in this competition" issues.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Awesome ornaments, great dance feeling, and beautiful voicing. Overall, excellent.


Agreed. I thought his Bach was even better than Chernov's: very disciplined tempi, ornamentation that was imaginative, tasteful and beautifully executed. The Gigue just blew me away.

The Bartok etudes were spectacular. I recall being impressed with Jon Nakamatsu's Stravinsky etudes several competitions back. These pieces don't move me musically the way the Stravinsky did, but their technical difficulty is staggering. He played them wonderfully. Also loved his mazurkas.

Chen's Scriabin 5th was very impressive. That's about as far out on the Scriabin spectrum as my ears will take me. He may not have the dynamic range and sense of the long line that Richter does with this piece, but I'd listen to him play it again any day.

The depth of talent in this field is astounding. Listening to these musicians makes me very glad I went to law school.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Will he wear Hammer pants?


We can hope. I liked the blue shirt. But the nicest suit, so far, imho, goes to Khozyianov.


And the nicest gown, imho, goes to Lindsay Garritson, for that backless black spangled outfit. Looking much like Cersei Lannister from Game of Thrones. Her Prokofiev Sonata 7 was deadly.
"When you play a game of thrones, you win or you die".
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:34 PM

Talking about look alikes, I wasn't sure if I was watching Jayson Gillham or Bobby Flay. Van Cliburn Iron Chef competition. Seriously his Chopin had some very fine moments with an impressive presto. Surprising number of slips.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
The depth of talent in this field is astounding. Listening to these musicians makes me very glad I went to law school.


I know what you mean. Seems the world is saturated with gifted concert pianists. Thankfully, there are other career options for us mere mortals. grin

Does anyone know the name of the female moderator?????? Obviously a pianist herself (she says so).
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:37 PM

Sara has come out swingin'.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:38 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
The depth of talent in this field is astounding. Listening to these musicians makes me very glad I went to law school.


I know what you mean. Seems the world is saturated with gifted concert pianists. Thankfully, there are other career options for us mere mortals. grin

Does anyone know the name of the female moderator?????? Obviously a pianist herself (she says so).


Jade Simmons.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:38 PM

And....just went off air.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Does anyone know the name of the female moderator?????? Obviously a pianist herself (she says so).


Just found the answer....

"Jade Simmons, webcast host, is one of the most exciting and versatile artists on the scene today-a powerful combination of passion and innovation. Essence magazine featured her alongside First Lady Michelle Obama and Olympic Gold Medalist Gabby Douglas on their first Style & Substance List. Additionally, she has been recognized by Symphony and Ebony magazines, named Houston's Best Arts Ambassador, and affectionately labeled Classical Music's "No.1 Maverick" by arts journalist Greg Sandow. Simmons' commitment to expanding the boundaries of classical music and its presentation began during her tenure as inaugural New Music/New Places Fellow for the prestigious Concert Artist Guild organization. Today, she offers a diverse mix of repertoire from the classics to the cutting edge, and audiences have come to expect creative projects backed by riveting performances. Her multiple talents take her in the direction of webcast host, arts presenter, Huffington Postarts writer, and lecturer and creator of Emerge Already!,a career-building platform for emerging artists."
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 08:54 PM

The 4th Scherzo has never been my favorite Chopin work - but Sara's performance was something else. Beautiful.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:00 PM

Her musical maturity is coming through. She plays very well.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:03 PM

Sara can really play. I've seen her at Curtis during her studies there.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:09 PM

Pretty sure we'll be hearing her in the semi-finals.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:10 PM

She played very well. But I like my version of Rach etude better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBIvND4wERI

smile
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:11 PM

I think she'll move up.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:12 PM

Really? I thought the Chopin scherzo was a complete train wreck.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:13 PM

Wow, nice playing from Sara Daneshpour! Her Rach reminds me of Idil Beret or Ruth Laredo, who was a Rach specialist. Hope she makes it to the next round. Waiting to hear her Goyescas and Prokofiev next.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:13 PM

Actually I missed the Chopin. Was it really that bad?
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:14 PM

Does anyone know if there is a source to download the score for the Theofanidis Birichino? I'd like to do a little studying and playing as prep.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Actually I missed the Chopin. Was it really that bad?

No
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Actually I missed the Chopin. Was it really that bad?


It wasn't to my taste, but I don't think I'd call it a train-wreck.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:17 PM

Really happy to hear that Sean played well; had the pleasure of "teaching" him for about a month during an extended leave of Lowenthal's, and was astounded by his talents. Plus he's a helluva nice guy to boot.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Originally Posted By: Ralph
Actually I missed the Chopin. Was it really that bad?


It wasn't to my taste, but I don't think I'd call it a train-wreck.


Far from it. grin
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:20 PM

Wednesday night Sean plays the Hammerklavier.
Posted by: Thracozaag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Wednesday night Sean plays the Hammerklavier.


He played that for me--it's freakin' awesome.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:25 PM

I'm excited to hear it. He's my pick to win.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:27 PM

OMG, visions of LL.
Posted by: Schubertslieder

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:28 PM

It sounds great about Sean doing so well.
I want him to win too. thumb He is an American.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:32 PM

Gustavo hasn't removed the label from is left jacket sleeve.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:33 PM

It's a nice looking suit.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:34 PM

They didn't touch up the tuning in the break. Yikes.

I thought the tag was a fashion statement.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Gustavo hasn't removed the label from is left jacket sleeve.


Maybe it's a paid endorsement?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:36 PM

He could be a male model, with those bee-stung lips.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:36 PM

Sorry, this is killing me. Somebody stick an ice pick in my ear and gouge my eyes out. Is that too harsh?
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:36 PM

I am surprised by his choice for this first preliminary round. Nothing virtuosic at all.Very, very risky.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Originally Posted By: Ralph
Gustavo hasn't removed the label from is left jacket sleeve.


Maybe it's a paid endorsement?


Very Nascar.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Sorry, this is killing me. Somebody stick an ice pick in my ear and gouge my eyes out. Is that too harsh?


A little, yes.

Look away!
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:38 PM

Not removing the label, yikes wrong note, sorry, is like not removing the paper ring from your cigar. Not to do so is just showing off.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:38 PM

Not only that, he's also one of only a couple competitors to avoid any sonatas in the Prelim recital (though he does have a the Schumann Fantasie programmed).
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:39 PM

That has to be Botox.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:40 PM

Is it over yet? I'm averting my eyes and ears.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
It's a nice looking suit.


And easy to return when the competition is over.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Originally Posted By: Ralph
Gustavo hasn't removed the label from is left jacket sleeve.


Maybe it's a paid endorsement?


Maybe return it after the competition?
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
I am surprised by his choice for this first preliminary round. Nothing virtuosic at all.Very, very risky.


Not paying off, IMO.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
It's a nice looking suit.


And easy to return when the competition is over.

ROTFL !!!!!!!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:42 PM

This by itself is an odd program, but the Schumann op. 17 is a big nice chunk.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Is it over yet? I'm averting my eyes and ears.


Yes, it's all over.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
I am surprised by his choice for this first preliminary round. Nothing virtuosic at all.Very, very risky.


The entire Opus 142 is a strange choice indeed.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:45 PM

I am sure he is a fine pianist, but he just doesn't seem at the same level as the others in this competition. The Schubert is okay, some parts are lovely, but nothing that I wouldn't expect from a talented undergrad. His phrasing seems very studied and his voicing leaves a lot to be desired. Waiting to hear the Chopin.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:47 PM

I think it'll be tough to recover from this.

Maybe he can get a refund on the suit. He won't need it for as long as he thought.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:47 PM

Undergrad is the right word. He's well prepared for his juries.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
I am sure he is a fine pianist, but he just doesn't seem at the same level as the others in this competition. The Schubert is okay, some parts are lovely, but nothing that I wouldn't expect from a talented undergrad.

Precisely !!
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:49 PM

I think it says "Penney's"
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:50 PM

I have never seen such raw cruelty.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:51 PM

He won first prize in the 2011 Juilliard Concerto Competition, he can't be chopped liver.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:52 PM

OMG, we're still in this opus??
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:54 PM

He's got the Brahms Concerto 2 programmed (if he ever gets that far). If he has mastered that, he certainly is not chopped liver.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:54 PM

See!!!!!
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:55 PM

It's interesting that Jie Yuan, who plays next, has the same set of Impromptus programmed for his semi-final round.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:56 PM

My Gad, I'm going to have to take a nap before the Brahms. Hopefully it won't turn out to be another Bernstein/Gould fiasco.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I have never seen such raw cruelty.


Welcome to the internet. Sometimes, not even Piano World can avoid the temptation to dip its toes into the YouTube Comment Cesspool. frown
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
It's interesting that Jie Yuan, who plays next, has the same set of Impromptus programmed for his semi-final round.


NOOOOO!!!

(Why???)

Why, God, WHY??
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:57 PM

I wouldn't call it undergrad level. (I'll be nice!) I think he has a beautiful sound, and level of technical control is better than I've heard in undergrads, even for non-virtuosic pieces such as these Schubert Impromptus. That said, however, it's too predictable, and whatever emotions he has are going into his physical expression instead of musical expression.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 09:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
It's interesting that Jie Yuan, who plays next, has the same set of Impromptus programmed for his semi-final round.


NOOOOO!!!

(Why???)

Why, God, WHY??


Because they both study at Juilliard? Maybe under the same teacher?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:04 PM

It has not been a good day for F. Chopin.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:04 PM

He has control issues.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
It's interesting that Jie Yuan, who plays next, has the same set of Impromptus programmed for his semi-final round.


NOOOOO!!!

(Why???)

Why, God, WHY??


Because they both study at Juilliard? Maybe under the same teacher?


Miranda-Bernales studies with McDonald and Jie Yuan with Kaplinsky.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:05 PM

You know, the backstage "mother" has a sewing kit. She could have taken off his tag for him...
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:07 PM

More like a braciole than a Barcarolle.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:14 PM

Well, he smudged that Barcarolle a bit. And missing on some details. But not in the same league as others (but have to hear his Phase 2 recital). I'll be honest, I'm too spoiled by Richard Goode and Radu Lupu though.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
You know, the backstage "mother" has a sewing kit. She could have taken off his tag for him...

BTW, speaking of the backstage mother: This deserves a mention.

Sadly, the very longtime backstage mother, Louise Canafax, passed away in March (obituary). She was a beloved fixture at all the Cliburn competitions for the last 20+ years, amateur as well as professional competitions. She will be missed greatly, for a long time. Of course the event is not the same without Van Cliburn, but it is not the same without Louise Canafax too.


Originally Posted By: Schubertslieder
It sounds great about Sean doing so well.
I want him to win too. thumb He is an American.

Not to criticize anyone who views it that way (really!), but I never have. Likewise the Olympics -- I almost resent those tabulations of how many medals have been won by each country. I see the contestants as individuals, not representing countries. I wouldn't say the same about 1958 (when Cliburn won in the Soviet Union), but now, it's a different time. I wouldn't get any particular extra pleasure if a U.S. contestant wins; I'd just be interested in how he/she plays.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
They didn't touch up the tuning in the break. Yikes.

Very unusual. I think even in the amateur competition they at least check out the piano during every break. But maybe there it's easier, because there's just one piano.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:22 PM

Lindsay Garritson sounds so cool right now. Violin + piano + swimming + pro musical family!

Interested to hear that the competitors live with "host families"?
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:24 PM

She's great. One of my favorites.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:24 PM

Plus the hostess!!!

"Dats right sista, the kids loved my Prok 7 too"

Didn't know she was so pro!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
Well, he smudged that Barcarolle a bit. And missing on some details. But not in the same league as others (but have to hear his Phase 2 recital).

I'd be a happy camper if I could play half as well as this young man. But based on his performance this evening, he is not in the same league as the majority of other candidates. His programming choices didn't help much either.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:29 PM

Jie doesn't look 27 yo. Is that right?
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:30 PM

He chose the American Steinway.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:36 PM

I was not trying to be nasty or catty with my reference to "a talented undergrad." I think that if you choose to program something like the Impromptus, you have to play them at the very highest level in order to stand out in this competition. (I am talking Radu Lupu level.)You really have to have something to say.

And I also would be very happy to play half- make that a quarter - as well as Mr. Miranda-Bernales.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:37 PM

Big difference between the younger and older players. Lots of good things going on with his Schumann.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
He chose the American Steinway.

My ear is telling me that this is the 'other' American Steinway, which I don't believe we have heard before.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:39 PM

Oh yes, best Haydn thus far.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Ralph
He chose the American Steinway.

My ear is telling me that this is the 'other' American Steinway, which I don't believe we have heard before.


What does your eye tell you? (Hint: G#)
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:40 PM

Yep - I was wrong, my bad.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Ralph
He chose the American Steinway.

My ear is telling me that this is the 'other' American Steinway, which I don't believe we have heard before.



You could be right.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:41 PM

Wonderful Haydn.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Yep - I was wrong, my bad.


Or not.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:42 PM

Lots of liberties with the score in the Abegg. Mostly stemmed or slurred or accented inner voices that aren't coming out. Seems to be concentrating on the general articulation and forgetting some of the interesting details. Also didn't really interpret the famous pedal-lifting thing at the end in the usual way. (And not effectively, IMHO.)

Can't really hear details of articulation in Haydn, either. Accents missing here as well.

I'm a bit puzzled. I'm all for taking liberties with the score, but the choices need to be done for some kind of musical effect, and he's homogenizing things and I'm losing interest. frown
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:44 PM

Jie's Haydn is pretty. The tone is nice. Overall, sweet and mild so far.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:46 PM

I honestly haven't really enjoyed anyone's playing in the evening session. Sure, they're solid, but there's nothing really captivating about their playing.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:46 PM

For me playing Haydn successfully is playing it in the correct style. I think he's done that. It's clean and pure sounding without threatening voices which would have been distasteful in the classical period.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:50 PM

I'll agree with Kreisler: far too many liberties all-around in Yuan's playing.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:50 PM

For this evening I would have to fail Sara and Gustavo. Jie's playing is pleasant, but it's not rising to the level of greatness.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:51 PM

Hmmm, as much as I liked the first two movements, I disliked the last movement. Trying to understand why I feel that way.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
For this evening I would have to fail Sara and Gustavo. Jie's playing is pleasant, but it's not rising to the level of greatness.



Right. Nothing too impressive tonight.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:57 PM

I'm with Brendan and Kreisler. There is no cohesiveness or architectural plan in his interpretation. The Petrouchka is disjointed and pushed over the top.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Hmmm, as much as I liked the first two movements, I disliked the last movement. Trying to understand why I feel that way.



The third movement was goofy. Falling onto the keyboard and all. Too many theatrics and not enough pianism.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
For this evening I would have to fail Sara and Gustavo. Jie's playing is pleasant, but it's not rising to the level of greatness.

Right. Nothing too impressive tonight.

I wouldn't fail Sara yet .......
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:01 PM

This Petrouchka is too nice so far. Need more guts.

Also I noticed that in the past few days, all the Petrouchka's tended to start a bit too fast, and then slowed down fairly quickly when things became really difficult with those big left-hand jumps. Things could not get worse than this pattern.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:01 PM

I am starting to fear for strings and hammer shanks.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:02 PM

Well I'm done. This Petrouchka isn't doing it for me.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:03 PM

Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Hmmm, as much as I liked the first two movements, I disliked the last movement. Trying to understand why I feel that way.



The third movement was goofy. Falling onto the keyboard and all. Too many theatrics and not enough pianism.


I think you are right. I think he tried too hard to make more of it than what was there. Less would definitely have been more.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
I wouldn't fail Sara yet .......


Stick a fork in her.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
I wouldn't fail Sara yet .......

Stick a fork in her.


You're bad !! grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:06 PM

How does the jury keep fresh ears? Surely some of them are dozing off during some of these contestants.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:07 PM

His Petrouchka has some interesting moments, but it's like he's trying for a different effect/thing to bring out every few seconds. I'm missing the forest somewhere among all the trees.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:08 PM

The audience loved his bland, unstructured Juilliardiosity.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.

What's wrong with the Schubert?

Edit: I thought you were talking about the piece, but you were talking about a specific performance. Never mind. grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.


I know, it's like asking if you'd like to be murdered with a carrot peeler or a tire iron.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
I honestly haven't really enjoyed anyone's playing in the evening session. Sure, they're solid, but there's nothing really captivating about their playing.


I can't understand this as applied to Daneshpour. I expected not to like her here; heard her when she took 2nd at the 2007 Kapell Competition and thought she was some distance behind the winner, Sofya Gulyak (who later went on to win Leeds). But tonight was something very different. I loved her Abegg variations -- full of sparkle and sweetness (with some occasional bite). Her Chopin had clarity, though I agree it would benefit from more personality. But I thought her Rachmaninoff was terrific. The C minor and F# minor were especially satisfying: powerful, sinister at times and very well conceived by the artist. I'll be stunned if she doesn't make it to the semis.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.

What's wrong with the Schubert?

Edit: I thought you were talking about the piece, but you were talking about a specific performance. Never mind. grin

Well actually - both. ha I could do without the #2 in A Flat - particularly in a competition such as this.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.


I know, it's like asking if you'd like to be murdered with a carrot peeler or a tire iron.

Hey - that's your best one yet !!!!! thumb
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.


I know, it's like asking if you'd like to be murdered with a carrot peeler or a tire iron.

How about a cheese grater? grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Agreed, this Petrouchka is empty. The audience must be getting sick of Petrouchka, I know I am.


I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.

What's wrong with the Schubert?

Edit: I thought you were talking about the piece, but you were talking about a specific performance. Never mind. grin

Well actually - both. ha I could do without the #2 in A Flat - particularly in a competition such as this.

I really like #1 though.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Ralph
Well I'm done. This Petrouchka isn't doing it for me.

I've never heard a Petrouchka on the piano that I didn't wish wasn't happening.

Originally Posted By: carey
I don't know what's worse - multiple hearings of Petrouchka or the Schubert Opus 142.

I do. ha

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
How does the jury keep fresh ears? Surely some of them are dozing off during some of these contestants.

They must 'pace themselves' quite a bit -- sort of turn themselves off and rest for small or large stretches at a time, in a way that doesn't take away from their ability to judge effectively.

I mean, don't we? Don't we form our major idea of a piano performance pretty promptly, and then usually just have our view tweaked thereafter? I imagine that the judges decide pretty soon after a given contestant starts playing how closely they need to listen the rest of the way.

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The audience loved his bland, unstructured Juilliardiosity.

smokin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Ralph
Well I'm done. This Petrouchka isn't doing it for me.

I've never heard a Petrouchka on the piano that I didn't wish wasn't happening.

Has BACHMACH2 ever done it? grin

That would be like the cheese grater, the carrot peeler, and the tire iron all in one. sick
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:24 PM

BTW...this may already have been mentioned, but Claire Huganci's performance is now available in the "on demand" section. (And it's very good!)
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:24 PM

The entire opus 142 is just too much, way too much opus 142. Pick two of them, maybe.

Buddy in his post-recital happytalk called Gustavo's programming "brave." (That's obviously a euphemism for ghastly.) Opus 142: "they're just so hard to put across" Um, YES.

And in their discussion of Sara they didn't mention her Chopin scherzo....the way you don't mention your uncle in prison when you gather for Thanksgiving dinner, I guess.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
....I could do without the #2 in A Flat....



Quote:
.....- particularly in a competition such as this.

Indeed I'd say (as I did on the Grieg) that if you play this in such a competition, you'd better be intending to do something pretty special with it.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The entire opus 142 is just too much, way too much opus 142. Pick two of them, maybe.

I vote for #1 and #4. thumb
Quote:
Buddy in his post-recital happytalk called Gustavo's programming "brave." (That's obviously a euphemism for ghastly.)

crazy
Quote:
And in their discussion of Sara they didn't mention her Chopin scherzo....the way you don't mention your uncle in prison when you gather for Thanksgiving dinner, I guess.

And who said the Cliburn isn't political !!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: carey
....I could do without the #2 in A Flat....


Quote:
.....- particularly in a competition such as this.

Indeed I'd say (as I did on the Grieg) that if you play this in such a competition, you'd better be intending to do something pretty special with it.

Yes - this reminded me of the Grieg as well !! Unfortunately that "special something" proved to be elusive this evening!!

The Opus 142 No. 2 was the first piece I played in a student recital in college. I worked very hard on it - and did fine - but, let's just say, familiarity sometimes breeds contempt. wink
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:48 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
The Opus 142 No. 2 was the first piece I played in a student recital in college. I worked very hard on it - and did fine - but, let's just say, familiarity sometimes breeds contempt. wink

It was also the first piece I played in my "debuts" as well as in earlier concerts, and it's still the first piece I usually play when I try out a piano and when I'm 'warming up' before a performance. For me, familiarity has bred more and more love.

BTW, I played it as the first piece at my first amateur Cliburn. I didn't do enough with it to justify having programmed it.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/26/13 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
BTW...this may already have been mentioned, but Claire Huganci's performance is now available in the "on demand" section. (And it's very good!)

Loving the Beethoven, and I liked her Rachmaninoff + Kapustin. Didn't listen to the Mendelssohn before, I'll listen now. Wish that she took the repeat in the 4th movement of op.101!

Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The audience loved his bland, unstructured Juilliardiosity.


Of course they did..
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:51 AM

Not to keep harping on Sara, but her program was only 39 minutes. Weird. Why would you give up 6 minutes? Jade had to show her home movies to fill up the extra time.

I listened to her Chopin scherzo again and it wasn't quite as bad as I originally thought, but it did have mistakes, and it was weirdly quiet and subdued. I listened to three other performances (Rafal Blechacz, Daniil Trifonov, and Yuliana Avdeeva) to check my memory and no one else played it as quiet and subdued as Sara did, it seemed to barely reach mezzo forte in parts where it was supposed to be louder.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:35 AM

Or maybe it was as bad as I thought. Here's the Cliburn blogger for the Fort Worth Weekly:

"She [Daneshpour] started with a bubbly version of Schumann’s “Abegg” Variations and launched into a pastel-colored version of Chopin’s Fourth Scherzo, a personal favorite of mine. But she made a weird error, skipping about 40 measures at the beginning, forgetting the opening statement of the main theme. Either that or I had a blackout..."

http://www.fwweekly.com/2013/05/26/blogging-the-cliburn-day-3/

I swear I heard something similar.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:39 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The entire opus 142 is just too much, way too much opus 142. Pick two of them, maybe.

I vote for #1 and #4. thumb

Thats exactly what a pianist I know did for several competitions, and with a fair amount of success (winning prices in at least 2-3 international competitions with that - sure, there was also the Liszt sonata on the program and other more virtuosic pieces).
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:45 AM

They're both in F minor - that's the problem.

Op 142 is sort of like a sonata, come to think of it. Moderately fast first movement, fast finale with Presto coda, and the key scheme works too. Pity to break it up. ha
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:25 AM

It's one of those things you wouldn't do in a normal recital situation, but within the time frames of a competition it can be accepted as a creative solution. I think.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Or maybe it was as bad as I thought. Here's the Cliburn blogger for the Fort Worth Weekly:

"She [Daneshpour] started with a bubbly version of Schumann’s “Abegg” Variations and launched into a pastel-colored version of Chopin’s Fourth Scherzo, a personal favorite of mine. But she made a weird error, skipping about 40 measures at the beginning, forgetting the opening statement of the main theme. Either that or I had a blackout..."...

I swear I heard something similar.

The such-different hearings of her scherzo made me itch to go and hear it, and so I did.

As is often the case, everybody has a point. smile

It wasn't terrible. She did most of the piece excellently. But, it was indeed also a fair bit of a train wreck.

I wouldn't be calling it a train wreck if the only memory glitch were what it says up there. But it was more than that, in a remarkable and almost unbelievable way.

Yes, that's what she did in the opening. She jumped from measure 19 to measure 52, leaving out the whole thing in between, which is a pretty weird lapse because it makes it seem like she didn't have a basic sense of being just at the beginning of the piece; the stuff at m. 52 can't even really exist until the prior stuff happens. But wait, we're just getting started.

The whole section basically repeats when the theme returns at the end of the exposition -- with some variants but it's basically the same. And would you believe, she did the exact same thing again!!! To me that's utterly incredible. The blogger didn't catch this, and actually it seems like most people didn't realize there were any such missing chunks at all. But the judges surely did. The problem with something like this is that it seems to reflect more than mere nerves; I think it suggests a less-than-adequate feel for structure. I'm not saying it proves it, but I do think it suggests it. I think it's unlikely that someone with a very good sense of that would be prone to this kind of "where am I" error, especially twice like that. It would almost be funny ("Holy carap, she did it again!"), if not that it's not funny. I had an extreme curiosity to see if she'd finally get it right the third time, in the recap -- and she did! It was a strange pleasure (and relief) to finally hear that section be played.

There were also some important details glossed over, like a failure to do anything with some of the little variants, and in one case -- the expanded/rolled chord in m. 732 -- to not even do it (or at least I don't think she did -- I didn't hear anything of it). Again, this seemed like something that can pretty much only happen if someone is proceeding through the narrative mechanically rather than with a real sense of the architecture. That chord isn't just a stray large rolled chord; it marks something amidst the peaks and valleys of the piece. And the ending: She didn't really 'do' it. She got the notes, but she was just "finishing," not ending. She raced right through it.

As skillful performances go, this was pretty much a disaster. I see that some people felt it was quite good, and that some feel she's likely to advance. I'll be shocked if she does.
Posted by: wr

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Remind me, why do we need fools like this getting paid to spread their trash around?

"I admit it: I always dread the Cliburn Piano Competition for the inevitable onslaught of noisy, vulgar pieces by Franz Liszt.

I understand Liszt’s importance as a mid-19th-century musical innovator, and he did compose some fine music. But a lot of what gets trotted out at the Cliburn is all about showing how fast and how loudly one can play octaves, runs and chock-a-block chords. That, to me, is not music. The two performances so far of the B minor Ballade–awful piece–were two too many, and I find it hard to defend the pretentious–and prolonged–twaddle of “Apres une lecture de Dante.”

If I ran a piano competition, and at the risk of eliminating some worthy individual pieces, I would forbid performance of Liszt, period. Maybe that would encourage competitors to demonstrate virtues subtler than “anything you can play, I can play faster–and louder.”

Ugh."

~Scott Cantrell, from the Dallas News.



Well, it's Texas, and in that milieu...oh, well, I better not go on, since I think there are some members here from there.

But I think the idea of some more restrictions on repertoire is good. If I were running it, I would place a moratorium of sixteen years on any piece that had been played three or more times during the course of the last two competitions.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:30 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Hakki
I don't get where Fei_Fei Dong is getting with the Schumann. The piece has lost its coherence IMO.




Part of that might simply be due to the episodic nature of the work itself !! smile


I loved the Schumann and the Liebermann.

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I can't focus on the Chopin as well. IMO, Fei-Fei Dong has some serious rhythm and phrasing issues.


Maybe if Chopin ended with 2 n's, I would have liked it. Too much exaggeration in the phrasing, or exaggeration in the wrong places. Trying to be too romantic. She lost me on the Chopin.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C

As skillful performances go, this was pretty much a disaster. I see that some people felt it was quite good, and that some feel she's likely to advance. I'll be shocked if she does.

Apparently she shot herself in the foot - big time !!

I don't know the piece that well so I didn't pick up on the two omissions. Nor did I listen to the entire thing from beginning to end (my bad). My "streaming signal" kept cutting in and out, but the snippets I heard were engaging and seemed well played - thus my "enthusiasm." And yes, the Chopin was not as effective as the other parts of her recital. Since she had 6 minutes left, instead of watching Jade's home movies (which I turned off after 30 seconds) I think I would have preferred hearing Sara's rendition of the Opus 142 No. 2. grin
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
They're both in F minor - that's the problem.

Op 142 is sort of like a sonata, come to think of it. Moderately fast first movement, fast finale with Presto coda, and the key scheme works too. Pity to break it up. ha

Good point about the identical keys.

I guess my problem is that the #2 is very repetitious (even though I like the middle section) and #3 works best (IMO) as a stand-alone work.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

As skillful performances go, this was pretty much a disaster. I see that some people felt it was quite good, and that some feel she's likely to advance. I'll be shocked if she does.

Apparently she shot herself in the foot - big time !!

I don't know the piece that well so I didn't pick up on the two omissions. Nor did I listen to the entire thing from beginning to end (my bad). My "streaming signal" kept cutting in and out, but the snippets I heard were engaging and seemed well played - thus my "enthusiasm." And yes, the Chopin was not as effective as the other parts of her recital. Since she had 6 minutes left, instead of watching Jade's home movies (which I turned off after 30 seconds) I think I would have preferred hearing Sara's rendition of the Opus 142 No. 2. grin


Like carey, I don't know the Chopin well enough to have detected her omissions without Mark C's help. Having compared Mark's comments with the score, I have to agree that two consecutive "boo boos" on the same thematic material followed by a third, accurate rendition is likely to go down badly with the jury. But I also noticed as I followed the score that her dynamically restrained interpretation is more consistent with the score than I realized on first listening. The piece is replete with pianissimos, leggieros and other indicators that it's not all about big sound. I still prefer more energetic and varied performances, but I can't fault her for paying close attention to the rest of the score after glossing over two 10-second snippets that most of us didn't seem to notice.

In all of this discussion, not a word about her Schumann or Rachmaninoff, which I think were marvelous. In the context of 40 minutes (OK, 39) of highly musical playing, I find it hard to accept references to train wrecks and foot shootings. Are we getting a little too focused on the dark side here?
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:57 AM

I think competitions like the Van Cliburn unfortunately attract some, what I would call, overly critical and arrogant listeners who love to criticize the performers every chance they get. For some reason, they enjoy finding fault in almost every performance(with an occasional compliment thrown in)despite the fact that the contestants are among the the most accomplished pianists their age and have generally studied with some of the best teachers. Not only do they find fault, but they often express their view in what I would call an arrogant and mean spirited way.

I think the reality is that not all, but many of these critics have a level of musical understanding and pianistic skill that most of the VCC contestants surpassed in their early teens. And in some cases, those being the most critical probably have even far less skill/knowledge than that.

I'm talking about the reviewers who have five, or in some cases far more, highly negative, dismissive, and mean spirited comments for each positive one. When someone basically posts one negative comment after another I think that says a lot more about them then it does about the contestants they are commenting on. And I don't mean it says they are highly perceptive, highly knowledgeable, or reasonable.

I think it's a shame that what should be a celebration of piano playing and piano music turns into an exercise/opportunity for endless criticism for some listeners.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli

In all of this discussion, not a word about her Schumann or Rachmaninoff, which I think were marvelous.


Some people wish everything was a Chopin competition.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:15 AM

I'm curious if the panel is given a copy of the score for each work being performed? More helpful for the less familiar works chosen (like the Vine sonata, the Busoni, China Gates, or Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata). Because, for example, Steven Li's performance of the Vine sonata was (IMO) unacceptable, but nobody knows the music, will he still get away with it? Personally, if one performed a Beethoven sonata, or a common romantic work like that, they'd be severely penalized.

The same goes for obscure works that don't work with the audience that well: would the performer (I forgot the name) be penalized for giving a great rendition of Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata, but is unable to move the audience due to the work's inherent weaknesses in some aspects?

How important is fidelity to the score in this competition? I'm sure it's much less than in the Chopin competition, but I'm still wondering. Amongst everybody, there seems to be a lot of liberty taken in their readings of the score.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli

In all of this discussion, not a word about her Schumann or Rachmaninoff, which I think were marvelous.


Some people wish everything was a Chopin competition.

laugh , loved this!
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
But I also noticed as I followed the score that her dynamically restrained interpretation is more consistent with the score than I realized on first listening. The piece is replete with pianissimos, leggieros and other indicators that it's not all about big sound.

That's what initially struck me about her performance.
Quote:
In all of this discussion, not a word about her Schumann or Rachmaninoff, which I think were marvelous. In the context of 40 minutes (OK, 39) of highly musical playing, I find it hard to accept references to train wrecks and foot shootings. Are we getting a little too focused on the dark side here?

In the great scheme of things, perhaps she simply stubbed her toe. grin I agree with you about Sara's renditions of the Schumann and Rachmaninoff. Let's hope she does well in the next round.

Speaking of "train wrecks," I have old tapes of some recitals I played that fit into that category...... crazy
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:32 AM

Actually, I find the Rachmaninoff 1st also a bit unacceptable - NOT that it wasn't well played, on the contrary, the guy has mastery of the keyboard - but things like not following basic markings - backing away from major climaxes which just messes with the structure of the piece, and it's already confusing enough in the 1st movement, or actually changing notes to make the span smaller and easier (and he had big hands so I was a bit confused), and redistributing a lot of runs and stuff.

But, in the end the redistributing doesn't matter I guess. Just didn't make sense musically, that's all.

I still wish I had his control. I can only dream of playing the piece that cleanly.
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think competitions like the Van Cliburn unfortunately attract some, what I would call, overly critical and arrogant listeners who love to criticize the performers every chance they get. For some reason, they enjoy finding fault in almost every performance(with an occasional compliment thrown in)despite the fact that the contestants are among the the most accomplished pianists their age and have generally studied with some of the best teachers. Not only do they find fault, but they often express their view in what I would call an arrogant and mean spirited way.

I think the reality is that not all, but many of these critics have a level of musical understanding and pianistic skill that most of the VCC contestants surpassed in their early teens. And in some cases, those being the most critical probably have even far less skill/knowledge than that.

I'm talking about the reviewers who have five, or in some cases far more, highly negative, dismissive, and mean spirited comments for each positive one. When someone basically posts one negative comment after another I think that says a lot more about them then it does about the contestants they are commenting on. And I don't mean it says they are highly perceptive, highly knowledgeable, or reasonable.

I think it's a shame that what should be a celebration of piano playing and piano music turns into an exercise/opportunity for endless criticism for some listeners.


I actually agree - some of these arrogant bastards have no idea what it entails to be on that stage, the pressure, the hard work, the psychological training NOT to mention musical training, they just have no idea... all they care about is being the holy "judge" of it all, with their fat pens writing evil things. I remember in the pre screening, some asinine critic was focusing on stupid crap like what the contestant was wearing, or wrote that the Mendelssohn variations were "not worth playing" because it's apparently bad music, etc. Makes me want to give them a swift kick in the balls.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:51 AM

Just skimmed through last 3 performances of yesterday.

I was disappointed with Sara Daneshpour. I had some expectations from her, but her Chopin is indeed a train wreck as said. I don't think she will advance.

Both Jie Yuan and Gustavo Miranda-Bernales (especially) were below the current level of competition.

So my list from Sunday consists of:

Alexey Chernov
Yekwon Sunwoo
Sean Chen
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:08 PM

Could not load the media!
Please reload the page or try again later.

I am getting this error.
Anybody else?
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:10 PM

Stream is working here, his tone is very muscular for Mozart. Right now he's playing very simply, it sounds good. (not a Mozart expert here though).
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
As skillful performances go, this was pretty much a disaster. I see that some people felt it was quite good, and that some feel she's likely to advance. I'll be shocked if she does.


I will too! As I've been saying.

I don't have my Chopin scherzo music here with me otherwise I'd have listened to it with the score to verify what the heck was going on. But when I listened to her the second time I timed it, because the first time it seemed so long and rambling and going-nowhere. It was 10:40, which is pretty much just right/normal.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
In all of this discussion, not a word about her Schumann or Rachmaninoff, which I think were marvelous. In the context of 40 minutes (OK, 39) of highly musical playing, I find it hard to accept references to train wrecks and foot shootings. Are we getting a little too focused on the dark side here?


I did like her Rachmaninoff. I think it was more that I was so shocked by the Chopin it was hard to focus on it completely.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:25 PM

I don't see why anybody has to hold back on their criticism of these performers. Every one of them may have more musical intelligence in their little finger than any of us has in our entire body, and they may have obtained such excellence as pre-teens, but that is the point after all. They have all been performing for fifteen or more years on main stages, often with orchestras or in chamber recitals, all the while obtaining the very finest teaching advice at the world's greatest conservatories. These are PROFESSIONALS and most of them already have careers (look at their performing histories). They chose to be in this high-wire event, and if at this stage they don't have the poise to control their nerves then they don't belong at this competition. And it is a competition, after all, with winners and losers and the potential for major mistakes ruining careers. That's why they have put in millions of hours of practice on these pieces and been specifically drilled in this music for years by their teachers, who have also given them invaluable training in dealing with the pressures of a major competition. They did all this knowing they will be subject to criticism from anonymous, puny little internet amateurs like ourselves, because we are the people with the desire and interest to pay $45 to hear them perform live. We're their audience, and maybe the last of a dwindling audience. If they want a career in front of the public, their job is to cater to us, not the other way around.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I'm curious if the panel is given a copy of the score for each work being performed? More helpful for the less familiar works chosen (like the Vine sonata, the Busoni, China Gates, or Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata). Because, for example, Steven Li's performance of the Vine sonata was (IMO) unacceptable, but nobody knows the music, will he still get away with it? Personally, if one performed a Beethoven sonata, or a common romantic work like that, they'd be severely penalized.

The same goes for obscure works that don't work with the audience that well: would the performer (I forgot the name) be penalized for giving a great rendition of Rachmaninoff's 1st sonata, but is unable to move the audience due to the work's inherent weaknesses in some aspects?

How important is fidelity to the score in this competition? I'm sure it's much less than in the Chopin competition, but I'm still wondering. Amongst everybody, there seems to be a lot of liberty taken in their readings of the score.


I have to think they're all looking at the score for everything. (And they certainly will be for the Theofanidis.) My guess is that fidelity to the score depends on each individual juror and how much importance they give that. I'm not an insider though, so take my guesses as just that.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:36 PM

This Gaspard is really good, Ondine was really atmospheric, and Scarbo is violent and colourful.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:38 PM

I think Dumont's my favorite of the Gaspards so far.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
This Gaspard is really good, Ondine was really atmospheric, and Scarbo is violent and colourful.


Outstanding Gaspard! I like this every bit as much as Chernov's -- perhaps even more in the case of Le Gibet.

His Mozart is also beautiful, especially the 2nd movement. Another diamond in this jewel-laden field.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:46 PM

Chrome did the job, but I could only catch by the Scherzo. Will listen to his Gaspard from ondemand later.

Oh my god what an unlucky moment for such a wonderful Scherzo.

Nevertheless IMO he will advance.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:53 PM

Dumont was quite good. Still, I liked Nikolay's Gaspard better.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:54 PM

Ah, the Chopin Preludes. This is where we separate the angels from the mortals.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 12:55 PM

Did the first movement of Huang's Haydn just fall apart?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:00 PM

That's an interesting (or odd) programming choice: all the Chopin preludes, preceded by one Chopin etude.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Oh my god what an unlucky moment for such a wonderful Scherzo.

Nevertheless IMO he will advance.


What "unlucky moment" does this refer to? Maybe he was talking about his browser's hiccup. I haven't heard all of the prelims, but this was the best Chopin performance - and overall the best recital -- thus far, IMO.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
That's an interesting (or odd) programming choice: all the Chopin preludes, preceded by one Chopin etude.


And the etude played at a junior recital level.

Followed by the weirdest no.1 prelude I have ever heard.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Numerian
I don't see why anybody has to hold back on their criticism of these performers. Every one of them may have more musical intelligence in their little finger than any of us has in our entire body, and they may have obtained such excellence as pre-teens, but that is the point after all. They have all been performing for fifteen or more years on main stages, often with orchestras or in chamber recitals, all the while obtaining the very finest teaching advice at the world's greatest conservatories. These are PROFESSIONALS and most of them already have careers (look at their performing histories). They chose to be in this high-wire event, and if at this stage they don't have the poise to control their nerves then they don't belong at this competition. And it is a competition, after all, with winners and losers and the potential for major mistakes ruining careers. That's why they have put in millions of hours of practice on these pieces and been specifically drilled in this music for years by their teachers, who have also given them invaluable training in dealing with the pressures of a major competition. They did all this knowing they will be subject to criticism from anonymous, puny little internet amateurs like ourselves, because we are the people with the desire and interest to pay $45 to hear them perform live. We're their audience, and maybe the last of a dwindling audience. If they want a career in front of the public, their job is to cater to us, not the other way around.


1. There is a difference I think between "holding back criticsm" and:
-writing mean spirited, nasty, or arrogant sounding criticism
-writing numerous critical comments and only the most occasional positive one

2. If one thinks the competition pianists have "more musical intelligence..." etc., then I think one would be less likely to endlessly criticize them. When one endlessly criticizes and rarely compliments, this gives the impression that one think they have far more musical intelligence than the pianists being criticized. This is even more serious when the criticism is done in a nasty way.

3. Just because they realized that anonymous internet posters could criticize their performances, I don't see how that is a justification for doing so in the way I described in #1 and #2. Kind of like someone who detonates a subway bomb saying..."You knew it was a possibility and you chose to take the subway anyway".

4. If they don't have the poise or are too nervous to do their best, why should someone slam them? That just seems incredibly nasty to me. They may usually be OK with their nerves but have had a bad day. I don't see the point (or truth) to "they don't belong at this competition".

I see no reason to refer on the internet to someone's performance as a "train wreck". Why don't some people realize that posting something on the internet should be different than saying the same thing to someone in private?

5. "Catering"(I certainly wouldn't phrase it like that...sounds like they're the audiences paid help or slave)to us doesn't IMO mean it's OK for the audience to be endlessly mean spirited and arrogant. It means they should always give 100% etc.

Conversely, we don't have to cater to them...but I think they deserve our respect even if we don't like their performance.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Originally Posted By: Hakki
Oh my god what an unlucky moment for such a wonderful Scherzo.

Nevertheless IMO he will advance.


What "unlucky moment" does this refer to? Maybe he was talking about his browser's hiccup. I haven't heard all of the prelims, but this was the best Chopin performance - and overall the best recital -- thus far, IMO.


No, I was referring to the left hand trill at the very end of the Scherzo.
Otherwise it was very well executed. Those things can happen, but I don't think it will pose any real problem for his advance. Not at all.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:19 PM

Chopin preludes in the style of "Play it again Sam" mixed with "Final Fantasy" style.
Posted by: boo1234

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:25 PM

16 was a trainwreck ...
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
16 was a trainwreck ...


I thought there were only 4 wheels of the train left already before that. Now there are only 3 wheels left.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
16 was a trainwreck ...
Hoping you're just "joking" in light of my recent post or

did the pianist's pained expression at the end of it make you happy?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:47 PM

Jayson Gillham is so charming and delightful.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:49 PM

Agreed, 16 was a total hot mess.

Just like with the etudes, playing all the preludes is a big risk, and Huang couldn't pull it off. He tried way too hard to be soulful. The pretty preludes rarely rose above pretty salon music, and the big hairy preludes didn't have enough muscle or toughness, except for perhaps 22, or else he overreached, as in 24.

Basically he just seemed really, really young.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:50 PM

I'm also not a fan of gripping the edge of the piano with one hand while you play with the other.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:50 PM

ALEATORIC PIECE!! SO EXCITED!!! (Orion 3)

Stoked for the Tannhauser too!
Posted by: boo1234

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: boo1234
16 was a trainwreck ...
Hoping you're just "joking" in light of my recent post or



I didn't read it. Nor do I care.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:03 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: boo1234
16 was a trainwreck ...
Hoping you're just "joking" in light of my recent post or


I didn't read it. Nor do I care.
So I can assume you enjoyed the pianist's pained expression?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:03 PM

I think Yury Favorin is taking too much liberty with the Schubert. I don't like it.
Posted by: boo1234

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: boo1234
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: boo1234
16 was a trainwreck ...
Hoping you're just "joking" in light of my recent post or


I didn't read it. Nor do I care.
So I can assume you enjoyed the pianist's pained expression?


Actually I didn't see it as I have the browser minimized while doing other things, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did make a pained expression after the final clunker.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
ALEATORIC PIECE!! SO EXCITED!!! (Orion 3)

Is this the same "Andre Boucourechliev" who wrote a little book on Chopin? (Actually it's a big book, in length and width grin ....but still little.) They had it in my school library back in the day. I remember it because of the writer's unusual name.

I looked it up, and yeah -- same guy! I had no idea he was a composer. I see that he also wrote books on other composers. Anyone else ever come across any of them?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:08 PM

I figured he was just channeling Chopin's angst after a coughing fit on Majorca.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
I think Yury Favorin is taking too much liberty with the Schubert. I don't like it.

.....and to me, this sounds like a potential winner and a shoo-in for the next round.

Both enchanting and exciting, and beautifully paced.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:19 PM

Argh...now I've got Elmer Fudd stuck in my head.

"Oooh Brunnhiwlde, you're so wuvewy!"
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:22 PM

Is this supposed to be so LOUD? ha

I don't know the piece but it felt to me like most performances of the Bach-Busoni Chaconne: too loud too soon, and nowhere to go.

Oh OK -- now he got quiet. grin
But I wonder about that stuff before.....

Anyway he can sure tickle the ivories. And he has an excellent variety of touch and expression.
Just like I'll be shocked if certain players advance, I'll be shocked if he doesn't.


Old joke about identifying music:
If it's too loud it's Wagner.
If it's too soft it's Chopin. (Substitute "Schubert" if you like.) smile
If it's alternately too loud and too soft it's Beethoven. grin
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:26 PM

I like this performance!! Just wait until the end, the real climax is there!

Though I do admit his playing climaxed a bit too much in the beginning...let's see how he can lead us to the finale.

Edit: Okay nvm, he's maybe a bit nervous, but it sounds sort of rushed, too much momentum. And by momentum, I mean high speed, low mass, rather than high mass, low speed (which is more suitable here I think).
Posted by: boo1234

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:30 PM

the wheels are starting to come off..
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:30 PM

If this is not another train wreck, what is?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
the wheels are starting to come off..

Originally Posted By: Hakki
If this is not another train wreck, what is?

Was it? I don't know.

I thought it was very well played (except for that part near the beginning, per the above) but I think it's a stupid piece. ha
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:33 PM

And with the next piece it is free to hit wrong notes. In fact the more the better.
Posted by: boo1234

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:34 PM

I don't like this Orion 3 piece at all. It sounds like a cat could play it by jumping all over the keyboard.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:36 PM

Cats can't trill....:P

I'm excited where this is going.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: boo1234
I don't like this Orion 3 piece at all. It sounds like a cat could play it by jumping all over the keyboard.

....and I loved it.

BTW, how do y'all know about Boucourechliev?


Anybody doubt that Favorin makes the next round?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:38 PM

Way too much rubato in the Orion 3.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:38 PM

Now, this is the dilemma. I say the King is naked.
But he will probably advance. Go figure.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:40 PM

I know zero about Boucourechliev. I looked for this piece on Youtube a few days ago and couldn't find anything. I'd be surprised if Favorin doesn't advance. After all his name can be rearranged to spell In Favor...
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Way too much rubato in the Orion 3.

Sounds like you're serious and you know what you're talking about, but....I didn't notice much of what I'd call "rubato." It felt more like how this goes -- which I guess means it worked for me.

He's in the next round.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:42 PM

Favorin's next recital is entirely Liszt from Harmonies poetiques et religieuses, and his semifinal includes Messaien and Alkan. Pretty ballsy I guess.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Way too much rubato in the Orion 3.

Sounds like you're serious and you know what you're talking about, but....I didn't notice much of what I'd call "rubato." It felt more like how this goes -- which I guess means it worked for me.

He's in the next round.


Sorry, I was totally joking.

I'm too lazy to use the posting box with all the winky faces.

I heard no rubato.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:43 PM

One thing I'm curious about...I've never heard the Orion III played before (and have no basis for judgment on it), but the composer's website lists it as a 10 minute long piece with a "slow and tempestuous" beginning and end.

Favorin's performance was about 4 and a half minutes and ended with a bang. Anyone familiar with the piece know if this is because of the choices he made for the open form, if he only played part of the piece, if the website's wrong, or if there's more than one version?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:45 PM

We're only an hour 20 min. away from more Claire Huangci! Get ready for a lot of Tchaikovsky-Pletnev.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:45 PM

Is anyone putting any bets on possible winners judging by what we've heard so far? I've been traveling a bit and haven't had enough time to listen the last 2 days, I better try to catch up soon. It seems Claire Huangci made a very strong overall impression, but I'd have to do some serious listening to many others before making up my mind. Just skimming some performances through, I heard some great things, some dull things, and some plain bad things.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
We're only an hour 20 min. away from more Claire Huangci! Get ready for a lot of Tchaikovsky-Pletnev.


I've been looking forward to this!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Sorry, I was totally joking....

Oh OK -- now I can admit it: I laughed. ha

I was like, this is ridiculous -- but you seemed serious and I thought I didn't know the music well enough to know what's ridiculous. But yeah -- I was like, what rubato, and how could anyone say a piece like this has too much (or little) of anything....

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Now, this is the dilemma. I say the King is naked.
But he will probably advance. Go figure.

I really don't get your negativity about him. He'll advance and IMO it will be very well deserved.

Remember, one of the purposes of such competitions is to identify possible future STARS. Do you have any doubt that this guy shows signs of qualifying on that (not highly common in this field, or any), and that he was easily good enough on any other criteria?
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:48 PM

The choices seem pretty clear so far:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wildcard 12th spot: either Kholodenko or Sunwoo
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wildcard 12th spot: either Kholodenko or Sunwoo



I would take out Garritson and Gillham and insert Kholodenko and Sunwoo in there.

But I know I'm the only person on the face of the earth who didn't love Garritson's playing so she'll probably advance.

I like Gillham a lot, but I think he had too many rough spots.

Edit: actually, I'm not sold on Taverna. I'm going to have to rethink the list.
Posted by: Pogorelich.

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Numerian
We're their audience, and maybe the last of a dwindling audience. If they want a career in front of the public, their job is to cater to us, not the other way around.


They are not there to "cater" to you, it's not a food service. They're there to provide you with an experience of very carefully crafted art. It's sad that music is seen like such an athletic endeavor and people often forget that it's still a form of art.

As for criticism, no one is stopping you from criticizing performers, however unfair it MAY be at times, but you have to understand that critics have the unfortunate power to influence a lot of people, and when an article is written by someone without sufficient knowledge or skill, you have to sometimes wonder about their credibility. Not to mention, how does the artist feel to be judged by someone who often doesn't understand a lot of things?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far....

I would take out Garritson and Gillham and insert Kholodenko and Sunwoo in there....

I agree that it's not clear on as many people as Brendan said, and I agree that Gillham is questionable. I think he's on the bubble at best. Besides the rough spots, I think his playing showed an edge of discomfort almost throughout.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Remember, one of the purposes of such competitions is to identify possible future STARS. Do you have any doubt that this guy shows signs of qualifying on that (not highly common in this field, or any), and that he was easily good enough on any other criteria?


They've been very clear that the main purpose of this competition is to pick someone who is seasoned and ready right now to go out and have a full fledged concert career - they're giving the winner full artistic management and a full concertizing schedule. So it's much more likely to be someone who is older, and it won't be anyone who's making booboos.

My fave is Khozyainov, but I'm afraid his age (and that alone) will go against him here. It also makes Huangci, Rana, and a few others doubtful winners.

So yeah, I do think Favorin could win based on that.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wildcard 12th spot: either Kholodenko or Sunwoo



This is my list too, with two exceptions: Daneshpour instead of Garritson and Kholodenko rather than Favorin.

Now watch the second prelim recitals turn things upside down.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Remember, one of the purposes of such competitions is to identify possible future STARS....
They've been very clear that the main purpose of this competition is to pick someone who is seasoned and ready right now to go out and have a full fledged concert career - they're giving the winner full artistic management and a full concertizing schedule. So it's much more likely to be someone who is older, and it won't be anyone who's making booboos.

Remember, all I said was, "one of" the purposes, although I'd add that IMO it's the main wish. One of the main criticisms of competitions is that at least in recent decades they haven't generally identified future stars. You know that the Cliburn is thrilled and proud to have someone like Radu Lupu as one of their past winners -- and you know that it's one of their dreams to pick more Lupus.

All I was saying in the prior post was that someone who does show signs of being a possible future star (which most don't), provided he/she is at least 'good enough' on all other reasonable criteria, will make the next round, and very rightly so.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:18 PM

The monkey on the Cliburn's back is that they've only picked one real star, Lupu, and that was in 1966. But really it's a monkey common to all competitions, because today's stars aren't picked in competitions (perhaps Trifonov will be an exception), they're plucked from teenagehood and given recording contracts before they even have to enter the major competitions: Kissin, Lang Lang, Benjamin Grosvenor, Jan Lisiecki, that young French woman whose name I can't think of.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far....

I would take out Garritson and Gillham and insert Kholodenko and Sunwoo in there....

I agree that it's not clear on as many people as Brendan said, and I agree that Gillham is questionable. I think he's on the bubble at best. Besides the rough spots, I think his playing showed an edge of discomfort almost throughout.

I checked his performances and his website out of curiosity - turns out he cancelled many performances this month due to injury according to his website?

http://www.jaysongillham.co.uk/concert-cancellations/

However it may be, the performances of Ligeti sounded VERY secure and convincing to my mind. Checking the Chopin sonata now - brave of him to program the 3rd sonata...A nice blog post by Stephen Hough comparing the b minor sonatas by Chopin and Liszt:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/ste...B_minor_sonata/
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:23 PM

Jayson told Jade he had sprained his ankle.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:28 PM

Yeah, broken ankle.
Posted by: Turn-Table

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The monkey on the Cliburn's back is that they've only picked one real star, Lupu, and that was in 1966. But really it's a monkey common to all competitions, because today's stars aren't picked in competitions (perhaps Trifonov will be an exception), they're plucked from teenagehood and given recording contracts before they even have to enter the major competitions: Kissin, Lang Lang, Benjamin Grosvenor, Jan Lisiecki, that young French woman whose name I can't think of.


Lise de la Salle?

www.lisedelasalle.com
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:35 PM

BTW I think there's a star in the making at the Queen Elis. competition, Rémi Geniet. Another 20 year old. I'm so impressed with his playing. Really exquisite, and he's not one of these people flailing around and overemoting and grimacing. I'm probably going to have to cut away from my Cliburn watching to see his concerto tomorrow, 1 p.m. central.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Turn-Table
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The monkey on the Cliburn's back is that they've only picked one real star, Lupu, and that was in 1966. But really it's a monkey common to all competitions, because today's stars aren't picked in competitions (perhaps Trifonov will be an exception), they're plucked from teenagehood and given recording contracts before they even have to enter the major competitions: Kissin, Lang Lang, Benjamin Grosvenor, Jan Lisiecki, that young French woman whose name I can't think of.


Lise de la Salle?

www.lisedelasalle.com


Yep! Thanks.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
....he cancelled many performances this month due to injury according to his website?....

Assuming the jury knows this (and I have to think they do), it improves his chances to advance. I don't mean that they routinely cut slack on things like this, but, on the idea that they're also looking for who and what the candidate is, not just how he/she plays on this occasion (and I think they are), they'll be able to feel that he's better than exactly what he showed. I doubt they'd cut any slack on this in deciding who goes to the finals, but I think they would for the semis.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wildcard 12th spot: either Kholodenko or Sunwoo



I pretty much agree based on the first recitals. And I'd give 12th to Sunwoo.
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
they're also looking for who and what the candidate is, not just how he/she plays on this occasion (and I think they are), they'll be able to feel that he's better than exactly what he showed.



Great stuff! The very definition of fair play in a competition. smile
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: landorrano
Great stuff! The very definition of fair play in a competition. smile

Sarcasm?

What's your problem with it? Do you think there's something wrong with looking under the surface sometimes to pick who will really be a better pianist and musician and who will better represent the organization.

Piano competitions aren't just horse races. You're not just looking for who runs the best race. You're looking for the best horses. smile

Obviously there's a lot of overlap -- close to 100% overlap.
I was just saying that the situation with someone who has recently been injured is arguably an example of an exception, legitimately so -- and I think that's the case for Gillham.
Posted by: landorrano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:05 PM

Great stuff, MarkC, really great stuff.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:07 PM

I love this Schubert! I should programme it sometime soon. Claire's playing really well.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: landorrano
Great stuff, MarkC, really great stuff.

Well I thought so too. grin

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I love this Schubert!....Claire's playing really well.

I agree -- confirming the impression from her first program, probably even a bit better. I didn't understand that some found her playing ho-hum.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Turn-Table
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
The monkey on the Cliburn's back is that they've only picked one real star, Lupu, and that was in 1966. But really it's a monkey common to all competitions, because today's stars aren't picked in competitions (perhaps Trifonov will be an exception), they're plucked from teenagehood and given recording contracts before they even have to enter the major competitions: Kissin, Lang Lang, Benjamin Grosvenor, Jan Lisiecki, that young French woman whose name I can't think of.


Lise de la Salle?

www.lisedelasalle.com


Yep! Thanks.


Not all 1st place winners but all of these have had, I would say, fairly big careers.

1962 - Cecile Ousset (4th)
1966 - Radu Lupu (1st)
Blanca Uribe (3rd)
Rudolf Buchbinder (5th)
1969 - Cristina Ortiz (1st)
1973 - Christian Zacharias (2nd)
1977 - Steve DeGroote (1st)
Ian Hobson (5th)
1981 - Jeffrey Kahane (4th)
Christopher O'Riley (5th)
1985 - Barry Douglas (3rd)
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:11 PM

....there was the part that the theme from Schindler's List was "borrowed" from.... grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:20 PM

So nice to hear these Drei Klavierstucke.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Not all 1st place winners but all of these have had, I would say, fairly big careers.

1962 - Cecile Ousset (4th)
1966 - Radu Lupu (1st)
Blanca Uribe (3rd)
Rudolf Buchbinder (5th)
1969 - Cristina Ortiz (1st)
1973 - Christian Zacharias (2nd)
1977 - Steve DeGroote (1st)
Ian Hobson (5th)
1981 - Jeffrey Kahane (4th)
Christopher O'Riley (5th)
1985 - Barry Douglas (3rd)


Yes, I think you can make the case that bigger stars usually emerge from 2nd place and lower than from the first prize winners. Louis Lortie and Boris Berezovsky, both 4th at Leeds. Mitsuko Uchica, 2nd at Leeds. Although Lortie did win 1st at the Busoni.

Which means that most of the time, competitions aren't picking the right winners.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:35 PM

(DELETED -- I talked about a possible disadvantage that the old scoring system caused for the first player. Kcostell and Marty then pointed out that it's different as of this competition. Thanks for the info!)
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Not all 1st place winners but all of these have had, I would say, fairly big careers.

1962 - Cecile Ousset (4th)
1966 - Radu Lupu (1st)
Blanca Uribe (3rd)
Rudolf Buchbinder (5th)
1969 - Cristina Ortiz (1st)
1973 - Christian Zacharias (2nd)
1977 - Steve DeGroote (1st)
Ian Hobson (5th)
1981 - Jeffrey Kahane (4th)
Christopher O'Riley (5th)
1985 - Barry Douglas (3rd)


Yes, I think you can make the case that bigger stars usually emerge from 2nd place and lower than from the first prize winners. Louis Lortie and Boris Berezovsky, both 4th at Leeds. Mitsuko Uchica, 2nd at Leeds. Although Lortie did win 1st at the Busoni.

Which means that most of the time, competitions aren't picking the right winners.


The point I was making had to do with the other part of your original post which read:

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
. . . today's stars aren't picked in competitions (perhaps Trifonov will be an exception), they're plucked from teenagehood and given recording contracts before they even have to enter the major competitions.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:40 PM

This year the scoring's pass/fail: Each judge chooses 12 contestants to advance and 3 "next best", and whoever is chosen by the most advances.
Posted by: signa

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:40 PM

good try for Huangci to play the sleeping beauty, but she's no equal of Bozhanov's (on YT).
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
This year the scoring's pass/fail: Each judge chooses 12 contestants to advance and 3 "next best", and whoever is chosen by the most advances.

Thank you! Are you saying that's official, and that's all -- i.e. there are no longer any numerical scores for each candidate? If so, indeed that avoids the problem I talked about.
(And I'll edit out the wrong stuff from the previous post.)
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: kcostell
This year the scoring's pass/fail: Each judge chooses 12 contestants to advance and 3 "next best", and whoever is chosen by the most advances.

Thank you! Are you saying that's official, and that's all -- i.e. there are no longer any numerical scores for each candidate? If so, indeed that avoids the problem I talked about.
(And I'll edit out the wrong stuff from the previous post.)

This should help:

http://www.cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/about-the-competition/jury/voting-procedures/
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:45 PM

Here's an interview where Giordano (the jury chair) discusses the scoring this year.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:48 PM

Thank you, Marty and Kcostell.
Meanwhile also I had found this article that refers to "the new 'pass/fail' scoring system." Apparently it is new this year.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:56 PM

Good start for our Scipione! smile I like ther power he is conveying to the Sonata...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 04:58 PM

I like his Beethoven except he's laying on the pedal too thickly.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far....

I would take out Garritson and Gillham and insert Kholodenko and Sunwoo in there....

P.S. Someone I didn't hear but thought (from the comments on this thread) would get more consideration is KOZIAK -- not being mentioned by anyone yet for the next round.

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I like [Scipione's] Beethoven except he's laying on the pedal too thickly.

+1

This hit me over the head right away -- in that passage starting at measure 12, where he pedaled through the 2nd and 4th beats. But this is darn good -- he's doing A LOT of terrific things. If he doesn't advance, I have to say he's darn good for someone who doesn't advance. smile
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:04 PM

Koziak's on my own list of people I want to see advancing (along with Sangiovanni, Kholodenko, Chernov, Chen, and Dumont), but I'm not sure if I'd put him on the list of people I think will advance.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far....

I would take out Garritson and Gillham and insert Kholodenko and Sunwoo in there....

P.S. Someone I didn't hear but thought (from the comments on this thread) would get more consideration is KOZIAK -- not being mentioned by anyone yet for the next round....


True. He played so long ago that I'd almost forgotten him. His first recital was Chopin/Szymanowski/Rachmaninov; next he turns to Beethoven and Brahms, so we'll get to hear a different era.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:10 PM

This piano has such a liquidy sound he barely needs any pedal at all. Ack, he's drowning this puppy.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
The choices seem pretty clear so far:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wildcard 12th spot: either Kholodenko or Sunwoo



Put in Kholodenko, Sunwoo, Poliykov
Take out Taverna, Gillham, Favorin/Garritson
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This piano has such a liquidy sound he barely needs any pedal at all. Ack, he's drowning this puppy.


He also got a teeny bit sloppy in the last movement. Minus the overpedaling, I liked most of what he did.

This Franck is a beautiful piece, why do we never hear it?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
....This Franck is a beautiful piece, why do we never hear it?

Come to the amateur competitions and you'll hear it your share! smile
Not a whole lot, but several contestants have played it.

And I think it does get played a fair amount in recital.

(BTW, I had forgotten about Franck when I did this post on the Clementi thread.....just added him.)
Posted by: signa

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:24 PM

i like this Italian guy so far, good Beethoven and Franck!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
....This Franck is a beautiful piece, why do we never hear it?

Come to the amateur competitions and you'll hear it your share! smile
Not a whole lot, but several contestants have played it.

And I think it does get played a fair amount in recital.


Ok, yeah, those are not my milieux.
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:27 PM

It's a beast to memorize and the technical stuff isn't flashy , while still being brutal on the fingers. seems like the antithesis of a good competition piece. (not to say I dont LOVE the franck)
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:29 PM

The 'chorale' passage that he just finished is, I think, unintentionally funny, because you're always wondering if the player will get to each next high note in time -- it's not easy -- and very often, people don't. He didn't particularly.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:29 PM

I had only heard all three Schubert played together once before(Kraskovsky) and after that concert I thought they didn't work together so well(too long). But Huangci's performance made me change my mind about that. I also thought her Tchaikovsky was sensational although I like Pletnev's Nutcracker transcription more.

I thought Sangiovanni's Beethoven was sensationally good and his Franck equally terrific so far. Maybe he will even make me like the fugue(which I have not previously liked).
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:35 PM

We're also forgetting Giuseppe Greco, who I thought was very good.
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:36 PM

funny? never thought I'd see that word connected to this piece. Franck was a good keyboard player, and would have known the physical implications of those wide arpeggios, and I think the slightly "late" top note works beautifully.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:36 PM

I'm really enjoying the Franck. It has a great balance between fantasy and structure. The Beethoven might have been a little rough here and there, but this is really excellent playing. It's a very hard piece to bring across!
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:36 PM

Okay, okay can't he just cut this short, I don't want to wait more to hear Rana.
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:39 PM

Agree with Brendan - I usually lose interest listening to this piece because it tends to just ramble on. Sangiovanni pulled it off really well.
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:39 PM

then theres the prelude aria & finale, talk about hard to bring across...
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:40 PM

Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
funny? never thought I'd see that word connected to this piece. Franck was a good keyboard player, and would have known the physical implications of those wide arpeggios, and I think the slightly "late" top note works beautifully.

Yes, "funny" wasn't the right word.
But I did mean something close to it. smile

I agree that slightly late -- slightly -- works beautifully and was probably intended. But I'm talking about where the delay is of an amount or sort that seems non-musical and entirely technical, and thought that was the case on a few of them here.

Originally Posted By: Arghhh
Agree with Brendan - I usually lose interest listening to this piece because it tends to just ramble on. Sangiovanni pulled it off really well.

Me too, despite the above.
Posted by: Piano Person16

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:45 PM

My favorite so far has definitely been Alessandro Deljavan. stunning bach and utterly original chopin.
I also liked Rana a great deal.
So my list, in order of my liking so far would be
Deljavan
Rana
Kholodenko
Gillham
Chernov (for his Gaspard)
Khozyainov
Chen
Koziak
Zuber
Mndoyants (?)
Greco
McDonald

I'm sure it's going to change after this second prelim round is done.

THIS IS SO FUN TO WATCH!!!!!!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:50 PM

While they're on break....

I see that the composer of the commissioned work (Theofanidis) is expected to be in attendance during the semi-finals. Something I wish they'll do with the video, but feel sure they won't grin ....is to show him on-and-off during the performances of his piece. It's probably not in keeping with the event. But I think it would be fascinating.

When I'm at a performance where the composer is present, I always try to steal some looks at him during the piece.
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:50 PM

For those of you keeping track, this'll be the third Abegg variations and fourth Gaspard we've heard so far. I was expecting the latter to be popular, but not the former...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
For those of you keeping track, this'll be the third Abegg variations and fourth Gaspard we've heard so far. I was expecting the latter to be popular, but not the former...


Oh, I'm keeping track. I made a spreadsheet... grin
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:00 PM

Ondine is one of my favorite pieces but I find I cannot look forward to listening to pieces I consider to be sensationally terrific so many times within such a short time span.

Edit:Rana just entranced me with the opening of Ondine...one of my favorite moments in all music. I remember not enjoying the second and third Gaspard performances and not listening closely so maybe this is only my second official listening.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:01 PM

Rana, has just raised the bar even higher. Fantastic Schumann.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:02 PM

Love Rana's Abegg. Absolutely brilliant!

For me, this is one of those pieces where you really hear Schumann's love for Mendelssohn. Once you see it as a Mendelssohnian scherzo and nothing more than that, it starts to shine a bit brighter. (As opposed to Opp. 9, 16, or 17, which have more of a heart-on-sleeve depth about them.)
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:02 PM

Rana's "Abegg" was beautiful. She shows her technical command with such fluidity and she has the most controlled trills in the competition. Beautiful playing.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:03 PM

Definitely the best Abegg of the three.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I see that the composer of the commissioned work (Theofanidis) is expected to be in attendance during the semi-finals. Something I wish they'll do with the video, but feel sure they won't grin ....is to show him on-and-off during the performances of his piece. It's probably not in keeping with the event. But I think it would be fascinating.

Better not let that happen! In any case, most composers in a situation like this will probably remain diplomatic and basically happy to hear their piece performed, as long as it doesn't come out as a disaster. Whatever they actually think they'll keep to themselves and to friends....


....or share on facebook walls, as I remember one composer friend doing while pianists were doing either well or not so well with his piece as a part of their semifinal program in an international competition laugh I vaguely remember his comments going from: "So apparently all those dynamics, pedal markings and harmonies are strictly optional. Good to know. smile " to more positive stuff like "was thrilled (and quite relieved) to hear so-so absolutely nail his piece tonight. Simply lovely."
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Definitely the best Abegg of the three.


And then the best Ondine.
So?
If you are the best, you WIN.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:08 PM

Is it just because I am italian or... this Ravel is incredibly better than any other one I listened up to now here?
Go on like that Bea! smile
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:09 PM

"If you are the best, you WIN."

Wouldn't that be nice?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
Better not let that happen! In any case, most composers in a situation like this will probably remain diplomatic and basically happy to hear their piece performed, as long as it doesn't come out as a disaster. Whatever they actually think they'll keep to themselves and to friends....

Sure -- but we can look for tension in their necks and how they wrinkle their foreheads and noses. That tells the story. grin
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:11 PM

She is playing beautifully. She has me completely drawn in.

-- The members of the string quartet and the composer have the chance to express their opinions with the judges.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: titowsky
Is it just because I am italian or... this Ravel is incredibly better than any other one I listened up to now here?
Go on like that Bea! smile


No, not because you are Italian. Really this Ravel so far is incredibly better than any other one.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
"If you are the best, you WIN."

Wouldn't that be nice?

I love how it's shaping up. We can see that there are surely some very worthy winners.

And here's one right here. smile

Plus, it looks like they'll have a nice choice of different kinds of possible winners. I can easily see them giving two gold medals, as they sometimes have. (They're allowed to give up to 3, but I don't think that's ever happened.)
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:15 PM

Footsteps of a new Argerich...
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Footsteps of a new Argerich...


I was just about to past that. She's nailing it.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:22 PM

We can be witnessing history...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Definitely the best Abegg of the three.


And then the best Ondine.
So?
If you are the best, you WIN.


She will definitely have the best Bartok Out of Doors. I still liked Khozyainov's GDLN better though.
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:26 PM

I didn't hear Ms. Rana's first recital- but that Gaspard was good! Nice to see someone playing Bartok! Too bad Sean Chen whimped out of the 2nd Concerto for the finals.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:26 PM

Great drive in Bartok so far! 1st movement came off very convincingly - the barcarola is faster than I usually hear it, but I quite like it. VERY refined sound and phrasing!
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:27 PM

Wonderful Gaspard. Dark, mysterious and shape shifting. As good as anything Benjamin Grosvenor has played among the young pianists (and he already has a burgeoning career).
The women have acquitted themselves quite well so far. I hope to see and hear Rana, Daneshpour, Garritson and Haugnci into the next round.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:29 PM

I keep thinking about her piano choice. She picked the perfect piano for this program. She is totally aware of its sustain, pedals accordingly, and how to best draw the color from it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:29 PM

What's really weird is before the competition I tracked her down on the Youtube and listened to a concerto she did in another competition, and it was so lackluster, completely phoned-in. It's impossible to reconcile that with what I hear today.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:31 PM

Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
I didn't hear Ms. Rana's first recital- but that Gaspard was good! Nice to see someone playing Bartok! Too bad Sean Chen whimped out of the 2nd Concerto for the finals.


Too risky given the amount of rehearsal time and difficulty of the orchestral part. I have no doubts Chen's Bartok would be fine. Whether or not the orchestra and conductor could keep up is the issue. (Not saying that FW Symphony couldn't do Bartok 2, I think they could handle it easy under normal circumstances - a solid week of rehearsals with the pianist and only one concert worth of repertoire.)
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
I didn't hear Ms. Rana's first recital- but that Gaspard was good! Nice to see someone playing Bartok! Too bad Sean Chen whimped out of the 2nd Concerto for the finals.


Too risky given the amount of rehearsal time and difficulty of the orchestral part. I have no doubts Chen's Bartok would be fine. Whether or not the orchestra and conductor could keep up is the issue. (Not saying that FW Symphony couldn't do Bartok 2, I think they could handle it easy under normal circumstances - a solid week of rehearsals with the pianist and only one concert worth of repertoire.)


I think you're right, the rules say "the pianist may choose any work scored for piano and symphony orchestra. The choice is subject to approval by the president, jury chairman, and conductor of the Final Round, based on rehearsal requirements and other considerations."
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
I didn't hear Ms. Rana's first recital- but that Gaspard was good! Nice to see someone playing Bartok! Too bad Sean Chen whimped out of the 2nd Concerto for the finals.

Indeed, especially since there are so many Rach 3's already...He would've stood out in the finals with Bartok 2nd.

While his Bartok etudes were very fine and polished (and I'm so happy someone dared to program them!), there were still verious details that weren't quite there. The first one didn't quite work well to my mind - he started out in a very fast tempo but slowed down quite drastically already early on, and there was some amount of slowing down and speeding up depending on the difficulty on each passage (like in the difficult "decima scales" in the last page). I lost sense of tempo proportions. The other two went much better as far as I remember. In any case, kudos to him for performing them - very few dare to play them in public! I have a few times, but it's been nervous and one is never prepared enough!
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:37 PM

Rana's playing is sheer magic. It's impressive enough to have played the best Abegg and Gaspard in this field. She also makes amazing music with Bartok -- no mean feat with this piece. Just unbelievable.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:37 PM

Holy [censored], this Bartok!
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:37 PM

Really liking Rana's Bartok...very atmospheric and sharply characterized between the different movements.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:38 PM

It's totally disappointing how shrunken the list of second concertos is. Does no one ever play Saint-Saëns in competition? It's all Rach, Tchaik, and Prokofiev. Three people chose a Brahms, one (Daneshpour) chose Chopin.
Posted by: jonnyboy126

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:40 PM

Wow! Wedged in between these powerfrau's, Mr. Sangiovani will really have a hard time standing out.
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: jonnyboy126
I didn't hear Ms. Rana's first recital- but that Gaspard was good! Nice to see someone playing Bartok! Too bad Sean Chen whimped out of the 2nd Concerto for the finals.


Too risky given the amount of rehearsal time and difficulty of the orchestral part. I have no doubts Chen's Bartok would be fine. Whether or not the orchestra and conductor could keep up is the issue. (Not saying that FW Symphony couldn't do Bartok 2, I think they could handle it easy under normal circumstances - a solid week of rehearsals with the pianist and only one concert worth of repertoire.)

Well, that's of course a very valid point, which I didn't consider at first. In the Maj Lind competition in Helsinki back in 2002 (the first time it became an international event), the policy that time seemed to be a focus on lesser-performed concertos. In a way, it was absolutely wonderful and a terrific idea - people could choose between things like Rach 4, Barber, Bartok 2nd, Einar Englund, Hindemith etc etc. I'm sure it gave the audience, performers and jury members a different experience:





The reason why the competition committee ended up going for more standard repertoire for later competitions was pretty much what you said, however. I'm sure the pianists found the oddball repertoire choices fine, but the complaints afterwards came mainly from...the orchestra. It's not easy keeping up with so much rep the same week.

ON THE OTHER HAND...In a competition like Cliburn, when we can be sure to hear a bunch of Rachs, Prokofievs and Tchais that the orchestra of FW should be able to play in their sleep, well...having ONE piece that the orchestra would actually have to work on isn't an awful lot.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:53 PM

Jumping around again -- just caught Claire Huangci's second recital and was blown away. I loved her first program, especially the Beethoven 101 and the Kapustin. The second was equally convincing, gorgeous Schubert and real flair in the Pletnev trascription. I still give the edge to Rana tonight, but by a thin margin. Two finalists in the first three of 30 performers? We'll see.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:54 PM

You never hear Liszt either, I suppose because they're so short.
Posted by: Piano Person16

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 06:54 PM

Actually, I have been semi-following Rana since I was very little and she tied for first (as an.. I think 11 year old?) in the youngest category of San Marino.
I've never liked her playing at all, and discounted her as a competitor here at the cliburn, but nevertheless, listened to a bit of her first round. I was shocked, and thoroughly impressed. Her Gaspard was spellbinding (as well as her Schumanns).
It's always interesting when someone suddenly improves to a level you never imagined possible. I'm guessing it's to do with how young she is (and thus, was), but I noted the same occurrence in a friend of Rana's also from the south of Italy. Maybe there's something in the air...
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:09 PM

Steven Lin up next. Too bad "Linsanity" never jump started here. His competition will probably end at this round. Don't think his Vine Sonata will be enough to carry him next. And he's programmed the Chopin 3 Impromptus (thankfully not including the posthumous Fantasie Impromptu), hardly virtuoso knuckle busting material.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:14 PM

Also this will be the third Haydn Sonata in C Major, Hob. XVI:50. Can he bring anything fresh to it? I'm already completely sick of it.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
Steven Lin up next... And he's programmed the Chopin 3 Impromptus (thankfully not including the posthumous Fantasie Impromptu), hardly virtuoso knuckle busting material.
Why would he have to include more virtuoso material on his program if he has included the Liszt Don Juan Fantasy?
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:23 PM

Fair enough. Which means his renditions of the Impromptus needs to be beautifully played enough to leave a strong impression on the jury. At least on the level of a Pollini or Zimerman. We shall hear.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:26 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
Fair enough. Which means his renditions of the Impromptus needs to be beautifully played enough to leave a strong impression on the jury. At least on the level of a Pollini or Zimerman.


Uh...
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:49 PM

What site are you guys watching the livestream on? I don't feel like fishing through thousands of comments for it. Thanks. grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
What site are you guys watching the livestream on? I don't feel like fishing through thousands of comments for it. Thanks. grin


http://www.cliburn.org/landing.html
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:54 PM

Thank you.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:56 PM

It says Steven Lin is at 7:30, but here that's already passed. What time zone are they in?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
It says Steven Lin is at 7:30, but here that's already passed. What time zone are they in?


Central.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:57 PM

Starts in half an hour.
Posted by: ScriabinAddict

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: BZ4
At least on the level of a Pollini or Zimerman.


whistle
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 07:58 PM

Okay, they're an hour behind me I guess. Thanks.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:00 PM

Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

He's not playing Petrouchka...?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

He's not playing Petrouchka...?


Alex McDonald, third player of the evening, is.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:06 PM

I'm looking forward to hearing McDonald's Ravel.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Nobody's forcing you to listen... wink

(I hope! grin)
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
ON THE OTHER HAND...In a competition like Cliburn, when we can be sure to hear a bunch of Rachs, Prokofievs and Tchais that the orchestra of FW should be able to play in their sleep, well...having ONE piece that the orchestra would actually have to work on isn't an awful lot.

The problem is not the orchestra learning or even playing the music. Consider that the conductor is not their own, who may or may not know the work, a totally different soloist at each performance, and very limited rehearsal time. Trying to squeeze in a 'rare' concerto does not promote good ensemble. Limiting it to repertory which can produce a satisfactory performance is a very logical choice. It is time constraint which is the factor, not the ability.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Nobody's forcing you to listen... wink

(I hope! grin)


The torture is part of the fun.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Nobody's forcing you to listen... wink

(I hope! grin)


The torture is part of the fun.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... wink

(I, for one, would have no qualms about instantly shutting off a bad performance of either of these works.)
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
(I, for one, would have no qualms about instantly shutting off a bad performance of either of these works.)


I like to feel "fully informed." Only by hearing every note from every competitor will I know if I agree with the jury's verdicts.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?


I'm looking forward to the Reminiscences. Where did you get Petrouchka?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
(I, for one, would have no qualms about instantly shutting off a bad performance of either of these works.)


I like to feel "fully informed." Only by hearing every note from every competitor will I know if I agree with the jury's verdicts.

Fair enough.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:22 PM

Another issue with rarely-performed concerti is that most of the competitors likely have more experience playing the usual warhorses with orchestra.

Even if one learns the Barber or Corigliano or Lutoslawki, chances are they haven't performed them very often with orchestra. Given the repertoire requirements for the competition, it might be difficult to keep an unfamiliar concerto in your fingers with all the other material you have to have performance ready.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?


I'm looking forward to the Reminiscences.

Evidently Eduard isn't. laugh
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Where did you get Petrouchka?

Tonight's third performer, Alex McDonald, is playing it. This has been addressed already.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:23 PM

I believe that both Huangci and Rana are studying with Arie Vardi in Germany. They must know each other quite well.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?


I'm looking forward to the Reminiscences. Where did you get Petrouchka?


The last performance tonight.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Where did you get Petrouchka?

Tonight's third performer, Alex McDonald, is playing it. This has been addressed already.


Well excuuuuuuuuuse me!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Which will be more painful, Reminiscences de Don Juan or Petrouchka?

Where did you get Petrouchka?

Tonight's third performer, Alex McDonald, is playing it. This has been addressed already.


Well excuuuuuuuuuse me!

?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
I believe that both Huangci and Rana are studying with Arie Vardi in Germany. They must know each other quite well.


That would be a good question to have Jade ask them (you can pose questions via Twitter). How well do you know each other? Do you like her? What do you really think of her playing?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:32 PM

The announcer for the Queen Elisabeth competition is a lot hotter than Steve Cumming.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
I believe that both Huangci and Rana are studying with Arie Vardi in Germany. They must know each other quite well.


That would be a good question to have Jade ask them (you can pose questions via Twitter). How well do you know each other? Do you like her? What do you really think of her playing?


At this time being, I do not know either of them personally. I have watched their Youtube videos in the past and followed their performance at the competition. I like both of them very much. I particularly like Huangci for her control; I particular like Rana for her rather unpredictable musicianship. They are both very good, but in slightly different way.

I am personally interested in Huangci's playing because she and I will be in the same music festival this coming summer where she will be a visiting artist whereas I will be a student of Arie Vardi. I hope that I can learn a few things from her as well. smile I wish her the best.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile

It's incorrect grammar. grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:44 PM

Is he done with the Haydn yet, and on to the Chopin?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:47 PM

I don't like the way he's rolling the chords in the middle section of the A-flat Impromptu.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile

It's incorrect grammar. grin


You should be my humanities teacher. smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile

It's incorrect grammar. grin


You should be my humanities teacher. smile

grin

All right, back to Steven Lin.
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile

It's incorrect grammar. grin


You should be my humanities teacher. smile


BTW, in our humanities course, we just learned about how to use comma properly. smile
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:48 PM

Not a fan of this idiosyncratic and overpedalled Impromptu no. 1.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Not a fan of this idiosyncratic and overpedalled Impromptu no. 1.

You probably won't like his 3rd either then.

I think it's OK, not the greatest though.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ABC Vermonter
At this time being,

? wink


! smile

It's incorrect grammar. grin


You should be my humanities teacher. smile


BTW, in our humanities course, we just learned about how to use comma properly. smile

It wasn't that, it's the phrase "At this time being."

The expression you intended is "For the time being." smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:53 PM

His performance just doesn't grab me. He's not doing anything with the piece.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:53 PM

I sense a no-tie trend amongst the guys at the competition??
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:56 PM

He's playing Petrouchka in the semifinal round as well. A LOT of that piece in this competition, it seems.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Not a fan of this idiosyncratic and overpedalled Impromptu no. 1.

You probably won't like his 3rd either then.

I think it's OK, not the greatest though.


No, I'm not liking any of them.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:57 PM

Anyone here ever play these Impromptus? smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:57 PM

I just realized that the 2nd and 3rd Impromptus are in the same key. Why did I never pick up on that before? grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He's playing Petrouchka in the semifinal round as well. A LOT of that piece in this competition, it seems.


Well, he intended to play Petrouchka. I can't see that happening.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Not a fan of this idiosyncratic and overpedalled Impromptu no. 1.

You probably won't like his 3rd either then.

I think it's OK, not the greatest though.


No, I'm not liking any of them.

He's playing the G flat like it's Debussy. wink
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I sense a no-tie trend amongst the guys at the competition??


I'm still waiting for the first guy to come out in short sleeves. Why should only the women be able to have their arms free while playing?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He's playing Petrouchka in the semifinal round as well. A LOT of that piece in this competition, it seems.


Well, he intended to play Petrouchka. I can't see that happening.

That's what I meant. grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Anyone here ever played these Impromptus? smile


Why?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Anyone here ever played these Impromptus? smile

Just the first one, many years ago. grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 08:59 PM

Whew, that's over.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:00 PM

First note of the Liszt...NOW! grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:01 PM

He's going to cut it real close with the time limit. Do you think the judges will let him finish if he's a minute over?
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:01 PM

No. 2 & 3, also many moons ago.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:01 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
I sense a no-tie trend amongst the guys at the competition??


I'm still waiting for the first guy to come out in short sleeves. Why should only the women be able to have their arms free while playing?


Well, that's an interesting question. Is there a dress code? I don't see why a male couldn't wear short sleeves. Or, there are plenty of men in the competitions who wear a shirt rather than a jacket, and it could be of a stretchy material so you wouldn't be restricted.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: carey
Anyone here ever played these Impromptus? smile

Why?

Just curious.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:03 PM

Oh boy, those thirds were a mess.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
He's going to cut it real close with the time limit. Do you think the judges will let him finish if he's a minute over?


I would think so. Last time I heard someone get cut off was Dublin 2012, a female contestant, I can't remember who. All of sudden you heard a bell ringing....the humiliation must have been intense.

I believe there was a female contestant who went significantly over at the 2010 Chopin. It may have been Claire Huangci, does anyone know about that? I know the person didn't advance after that point, but I don't know if the time issue was related to her not advancing.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
All of sudden you heard a bell ringing....

During what piece?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I know the person didn't advance after that point, but I don't know if the time issue was related to her not advancing.

I doubt it. It wouldn't be fair to let the person go on and then fail them for being over the time limit.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:08 PM

Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't. Lin isn't.

Sorry, I just can't get into any of his performance.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
All of sudden you heard a bell ringing....

During what piece?


I don't remember.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:09 PM

I loathe this piece.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I loathe this piece.

Why?

It's not too bad, when played well of course.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:12 PM

Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:12 PM

He's got another 3 minutes. Anyone know how far along he is in the piece in terms of time?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:14 PM

Wow, he just royally screwed up those chords there...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...


It's both, I assure you.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:14 PM

30 seconds on the clock! Let's see what happens.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...


It's both, I assure you.

Have you enjoyed any of the competitors' performances so far? laugh
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:15 PM

This piece should have been destroyed before it ever saw the light of day.

Of course, then Marc-Andre Hamelin would have had to write it himself.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.

So my guess is you prefer Chopin's Opus 2?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This piece should have been destroyed before it ever saw the light of day.

Of course, then Marc-Andre Hamelin would have had to write it himself.

You really hate this piece (and Liszt and Hamelin), don't you? wink
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...


It's both, I assure you.

Have you enjoyed any of the competitors' performances so far? laugh


OF COURSE!
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: carey
Anyone here ever play these Impromptus? smile


No. 2 about 2 years ago.

It should be played somewhat freely with structure. Lin's playing of this piece was not great.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=Eduard Hanslick]Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...


It's both, I assure you.

Have you enjoyed any of the competitors' performances so far? laugh


Whose was that?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:17 PM

Lol. I have to admit I have a soft spot for this utterly philistine audience.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:17 PM

All right, he's done. wink

So there's how long of a break before the next competitor?
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This piece should have been destroyed before it ever saw the light of day.

Of course, then Marc-Andre Hamelin would have had to write it himself.


Scott Cantrell, is that you?
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:18 PM

Wow!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:18 PM

There goes the announcer...
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


Exactly. It's one of those "everything including the kitchen sink" Liszt pieces. And I do like a lot of Liszt.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:19 PM

Brahms Opus 1 for the next guy...I'll have to listen to a bit of that. Going to skip the Beethoven though.

I'll be back in 10 minutes, everyone.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:19 PM

Now - Back to real music.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


Exactly. It's one of those "everything including the kitchen sink" Liszt pieces. And I do like a lot of Liszt.

Like what? You have to like the Sonata, at least.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This piece should have been destroyed before it ever saw the light of day.

Of course, then Marc-Andre Hamelin would have had to write it himself.


Scott Cantrell, is that you?


I was thinking the same thing, but no. I'm not that reactionary or knee-jerk.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Now - Back to real music.

All right, we get the idea: you don't like the Liszt piece. Let's move on, shall we? wink
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This piece should have been destroyed before it ever saw the light of day.

Of course, then Marc-Andre Hamelin would have had to write it himself.

You really hate this piece (and Liszt and Hamelin), don't you? wink


NO!!!! I love much Liszt, and I'm a huge Hamelin fan.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:22 PM

I will always love this piece. I find that this piece is overflowing with passion. Maybe it's just because this is the piece that made me get "serious" about the piano. Note errors aside (which were a plenty), I don't think he "got" this piece. I didn't feel heck's fire at the beginning nor an overwhelming fount of joy at the end. I can tell that he was really trying to get the piece back under control after he "lost it" at the first set of double thirds, but wasn't really successful.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:24 PM

Now, after watching intermittently for the last few days, the only people that have really impressed me have been Claire Huangci and Beatrice Rana.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=Eduard Hanslick]Literally, this piece is making me feel ill.

Maybe it's Lin, and not Liszt, who's making you feel ill...


It's both, I assure you.

Have you enjoyed any of the competitors' performances so far? laugh


Whose was that?


Just off the top of my head: Khozyainov, Rana, Huangci, Sunwoo, Kholodenko, Mndoyants.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Now - Back to real music.

All right, we get the idea: you don't like the Liszt piece. Let's move on, shall we? wink

I haven't been in that battle. Look at the names.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


Exactly. It's one of those "everything including the kitchen sink" Liszt pieces. And I do like a lot of Liszt.

Like what? You have to like the Sonata, at least.


I love the Sonata. Love the Dante Sonata, Mephisto Waltz 1, most of the Transcendental Etudes, much of the Annees de Pelerinage. Like the Concertos.

May I be excused now??
Posted by: ABC Vermonter

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:28 PM

This Beethoven is not very exciting. BTW, his shoulders look stiff.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:32 PM

I'm not really liking this guy. I don't really know why he would pick Pathétique for a competition of this caliber unless it was something super special to him, and I'm not getting that feeling at all.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
I'm not really liking this guy. I don't really know why he would pick Pathétique for a competition of this caliber unless it was something super special to him, and I'm not getting that feeling at all.


At least it's not Gaspard.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


Exactly. It's one of those "everything including the kitchen sink" Liszt pieces. And I do like a lot of Liszt.

Like what? You have to like the Sonata, at least.


I love the Sonata. Love the Dante Sonata, Mephisto Waltz 1, most of the Transcendental Etudes, much of the Annees de Pelerinage. Like the Concertos.

May I be excused now??

Almost. grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
I'm not really liking this guy. I don't really know why he would pick Pathétique for a competition of this caliber unless it was something super special to him, and I'm not getting that feeling at all.


At least it's not Gaspard.

Very true! grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:41 PM

I really like the grin emoticon, don't I? grin

( grin )
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:43 PM

OH GOD why did he miss that G at the very beginning of the piece...
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
At least it's not Gaspard.


True. What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty, and not because they have anything significant to say through the piece. The only Gaspards that have captivated me so far have been those of Dumont and Rana.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
Originally Posted By: Damon
At least it's not Gaspard.


True. What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty, and not because they have anything significant to say through the piece. The only Gaspards that have captivated me so far have been those of Dumont and Rana.

Same reason people pick the Liszt Don Juan, I guess.

(or any notoriously difficult work.)
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
OH GOD why did he miss that G at the very beginning of the piece...

I was wondering the exact thing, especially after taking a solid 90 seconds to wipe down the keys.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=Minnesota Marty]Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


Exactly. It's one of those "everything including the kitchen sink" Liszt pieces. And I do like a lot of Liszt.

Like what? You have to like the Sonata, at least.


I love the Sonata. Love the Dante Sonata, Mephisto Waltz 1, most of the Transcendental Etudes, much of the Annees de Pelerinage. Like the Concertos.

May I be excused now??

I only started it with a comment, but I didn't join in. All of these quotes on quotes make lovely Op Art.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:46 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:48 PM

Why did he do those chords staccato just now? Very bad musical decision...
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:51 PM

Too slow in the coda...much too slow...it drags, very boring.

I don't feel like he really gets the music.

Whew - end of movement.

Those missed notes in the LH arpeggiated chords were awful.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:52 PM

How slowly mounts the silver moon
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:52 PM

I could have flown around the world in the time it took him to transition between movements.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)


Thank you! It's time someone gave 'it's" its due . . . wink
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:53 PM

Piano Hygiene-101 is a very popular class at TCU.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)


Thank you! It's time someone gave 'it's" its due . . . wink

You used a single quote mark on one side of the "it's", and a double quote on the other side. You're a terrible person. ha
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)


Argh! That's why I don't need type so fast without proofreading. As for the double meaning, are you referring to your use of it's to refer to the apostrophe? (I think I see it, but it's hard to express in words without pointing to what I'm referring to.)
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Piano Hygiene-101 is a very popular class at TCU.

Ah, yes. Everyone's favorite.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)

That's why I don't need type so fast without proofreading.

laugh
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:56 PM

Brahms fell asleep when Liszt played Liszt's new Sonata in B minor for him. And now I'm falling asleep for this Brahms sonata.

It would help if they would turn up the volume on the webcast.
Posted by: Arghhh

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:56 PM

Here's another review of this afternoon's performances (Huangci, Sangiovanni, Rana): review
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)

As for the double meaning, are you referring to your use of it's to refer to the apostrophe? (I think I see it, but it's hard to express in words without pointing to what I'm referring to.)

Yes, I think that's what I'm referring to. I can't describe it though. ha
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:57 PM

This OCD piano-wiping must work against him in the jury's minds....
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Brahms fell asleep when Liszt played Liszt's new Sonata in B minor for him. And now I'm falling asleep for this Brahms sonata.

It would help if they would turn up the volume on the webcast.

It's pretty loud for me, and I'm only on 2/3 volume.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This OCD piano-wiping must work against him in the jury's minds....

That's my guess as well.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 09:59 PM

All his tempos drag - this scherzo is pretty boring ATM, he needs to speed it up.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:00 PM

This jolly part of the sonata is based on the spring afternoon when Brahms seduced Liszt's daughter Cosima behind a Dairy Queen.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This OCD piano-wiping must work against him in the jury's minds....

That's my guess as well.

I wonder why he's doing it? Maybe he does have OCD. laugh
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This jolly part of the sonata is based on the spring afternoon when Brahms seduced Liszt's daughter Cosima behind a Dairy Queen.

A beautiful nugget of musical knowledge... wink
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)


Thank you! It's time someone gave 'it's" its due . . . wink

You used a single quote mark on one side of the "it's", and a double quote on the other side. You're a terrible person. ha


I was trying to give " 'it's" " respect where it's due. Was that not obvious? crazy
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:01 PM

He does random things staccato - it's getting on my nerves.
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:02 PM

I give up. I've been up too long. ha
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Piano Doug
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
What has been irritating to me is that it seems like the contestants have been picking Gaspard just for it's difficulty...

In this case you'd use "its" without the apostrophe, because the apostrophe is only used when it's a contraction of "it is." smile

(Did you catch the double meaning in there? grin)


Thank you! It's time someone gave 'it's" its due . . . wink

You used a single quote mark on one side of the "it's", and a double quote on the other side. You're a terrible person. ha


I was trying to give " 'it's" " respect where it's due. Was that not obvious? crazy

It's about time we gave up this business with " " 'it's" " " and its due. It's getting a little confusing... wink
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:04 PM

It might just be the keys are slippery.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
It might just be the keys are slippery.

Nobody else had to do it though...
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:06 PM

Tooooo....muuuuch...rubaaaato...
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:07 PM

This sonata has lost all of its cohesiveness due to his lengthy wiping rituals.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:07 PM

Based on the various postings during this young man's performance, it seems like he's not really capturing people's attention in a positive way. Certainly not mine . . . yawn
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:08 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
This sonata has lost all of its cohesiveness due to his lengthy wiping rituals.

It's about time you learned its proper usage. grin

And I agree.
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:08 PM

I could see taking all this time between individual pieces, not between movements of a sonata. The movements of a sonata are not random pieces thrown together. They were composed as parts of an organic whole. Everything is lost with these long pauses between movements. Thank God, he isn't performing the Goldbergs.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:10 PM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
I could see taking all this time between individual pieces, not between movements of a sonata. The movements of a sonata are not random pieces thrown together. They were composed as parts of an organic whole. Everything is lost with these long pauses between movements. Thank God, he isn't performing the Goldbergs.

That would be very painful...a 2 hour performance of the Goldbergs. Half piano, half wiping. ha

(And that, ladies and gentleman, is my 1300th post! grin)

He's done with his performance - a relief. And with that I will retire for the night, sadly skipping the third performance and all the glory of Petrouchka... laugh
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:13 PM

The piano is being removed to the key drying unit. ha
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:17 PM

I'm still hoping Koziak advances -- his first recital (particularly the Rachmaninov) was tremendous, and even if this wasn't quite at the same level I'd like to hear more from him.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:37 PM

Steven Lin had never heard of Tupac Shakur or Biggie Smalls. I like that about him. They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:38 PM

McDonald is doing a great job with this Ravel. Maybe he could advance after all.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:40 PM

He's playing much better in this stage.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
McDonald is doing a great job with this Ravel. Maybe he could advance after all.


I don't think one piece can save any competitor!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Steven Lin....They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.

Unwise! If you do name any instrument (which I'd try to avoid), you name one that you'd never in your life actually have to play together with -- especially not an orchestral instrument. You want to make friends with the people who play them, not enemies -- or else they might not practice their parts of your piano concertos very well. grin

If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
McDonald is doing a great job with this Ravel. Maybe he could advance after all.

I don't think one piece can save any competitor!

True - but the Liszt seems to be going well too !!
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha

Why didn't anyone program any P.D.Q. Bach? I dislike the oud.

Mr. McDonald is playing very well!
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: kcostell
I'm still hoping Koziak advances -- his first recital (particularly the Rachmaninov) was tremendous, and even if this wasn't quite at the same level I'd like to hear more from him.


I was hoping too based on his Chopin but having just watched his Pathétique there was a major blunder.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Steven Lin....They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.

Unwise! If you do name any instrument (which I'd try to avoid), you name one that you'd never in your life actually have to play together with --
If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha


Banjo is a safe pick.
Posted by: signa

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:50 PM

he is really dragging this nocturne, unbearable now!
Posted by: kcostell

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Steven Lin....They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.

Unwise! If you do name any instrument (which I'd try to avoid), you name one that you'd never in your life actually have to play together with --
If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha


Banjo is a safe pick.


You never know when Mumford and Sons might cross over into classical...
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Why didn't anyone program any P.D.Q. Bach? I dislike the oud....

That's one I missed! (What's the "oud"?) I remember a lot of them, include the hardart (which I still hope eventually to build) ha but.....that's a new one on me!

Originally Posted By: Damon
Banjo is a safe pick.

Seriously folks (I mean really, for a change) grin ....what would we say if we were asked that??

I think I'd be at a total loss -- even without any attempt to be political or diplomatic, I think I just wouldn't have an answer. I think that after just phumphing for a few seconds, I'd probably wind up saying something stupid like "anything that they blow right into my ear"....and I'd laugh, hoping that the interviewer would laugh too, and we'd be on to the next thing....
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:55 PM

This is only the third of our eight Petrouchkas, right?
Posted by: DameMyra

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Steven Lin....They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.

Unwise! If you do name any instrument (which I'd try to avoid), you name one that you'd never in your life actually have to play together with -- especially not an orchestral instrument. You want to make friends with the people who play them, not enemies -- or else they might not practice their parts of your piano concertos very well. grin

If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha


Or bagpipe?
Posted by: DonaldLee

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:57 PM

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about McDonald's playing tonight that's keeping my attention.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:58 PM

Well, it is a very unfair question coming from a Cliburn staff interviewer, and Lin was apologetic about disliking flutes. They asked Scipione what his favorite body part was.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
....They asked Scipione what his favorite body part was.

ARE YOU KIDDING? ha

I think I'd have to say "coccyx" and see what she did with that. grin
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: DonaldLee
I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about McDonald's playing tonight that's keeping my attention.


Mine too !! grin
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
....They asked Scipione what his favorite body part was.

ARE YOU KIDDING? ha

I think I'd have to say "coccyx" and see what she did with that. grin


This was a dude, not Jade. These are the pre-filmed interviews where they click the little film thingy. But coccyx would be a good answer.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:01 PM

I think that McDonald is giving a career building performance.

Mark_C - It's a real instrument. Google it. My favorite of all time is the double reed slide music stand.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:03 PM

Quite a performance so far (third mvt Petrouchka). Great tone from the American Steinway.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
This was a dude, not Jade. These are the pre-filmed interviews where they click the little film thingy....

I'm very glad to hear that. I was surprised that she would have asked such a dumb thing -- and she didn't.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
....It's a real instrument. Google it.

Did! And came up empty!

Quote:
My favorite of all time is the double reed slide music stand.

Woulda mentioned that one if I'd thought of it. smile
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:08 PM

He seems to be getting tired.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:11 PM

Sounds OK enough to me. smile
Not my cup of tea but I think he has a very good chance to advance. I think he will.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
He seems to be getting tired.


Understandable.

But it was still an amazing and exciting performance.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:12 PM

When he put his hanky down on the floor I was afraid he was going to give a speech. Horrors!
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:15 PM

OMG - Very Special Performance - Amazingly skilled pianist.

Mark_C - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oud
Posted by: Goldberg

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:19 PM

I missed most of today, but backtracked to find Rana's performance that everyone was talking about. Glad I did! This is the first I've heard of her, and this Gaspard is unbelievable. She's definitely a strong contender. Out of the ones I've heard so far, my favorites have been (including her, now):

Chen
Chernov
Deljavan
Gillham
Khozyainov
Mndoyants
Sangiovanni--haven't heard his 2nd recital though
Sunwoo

I'm enjoying most of these performances, though. Great selection of talent!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:21 PM

I feel like Deljavan has a bit of an edge making it to the next round simply because he's the only contestant from the last competition.
Posted by: Piano Doug

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
OMG - Very Special Performance - Amazingly skilled pianist.


thumb

Very impressive!
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I feel like Deljavan has a bit of an edge making it to the next round simply because he's the only contestant from the last competition.

I don't think that helps at all, except to the extent that it might help someone be more poised and therefore to be more likely to play well. I think they still judge the person just on how he plays. (BTW there have been people who entered again and fared less well the second time.)
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:27 PM

I'm now listening to McDonald's first performance. He's got me hooked!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/27/13 11:59 PM

Scott Cantrell on Steven Lin: "The Liszt Reminiscences of Don Juan indulged every possible excess of crashing chords, stormy octaves, glittering thirds and whipped up noises of astonishing ugliness."
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:01 AM

And Scott Cantrell again: "Yury Favorin (26, Russia) gets my award for most annoying player so far. Here was yet another formidable technique, but in the Wagner-Liszt Tannhäuser Overture brutal pounding yielded the ugliest sounds I can remember emerging from a piano. Did he not listen to what he was doing? All his efforts at artistry couldn’t salvage one of Schubert’s least inspired sonatas (in E-flat major, D. 568). As if ears hadn’t been adequately assaulted by the Wagner-Liszt, he closed by unleashed the late Bulgarian-French composer André Boucourechliev’s Orion 3, all turbulent crashes and clusters."
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
...."Yury Favorin....in the Wagner-Liszt Tannhäuser Overture brutal pounding yielded the ugliest sounds I can remember emerging from a piano. Did he not listen to what he was doing?

True, I think, for an early part of the piece; not otherwise.

Quote:
All his efforts at artistry couldn’t salvage one of Schubert’s least inspired sonatas (in E-flat major, D. 568).

I liked the piece, and I thought the performance was excellent.

Quote:
As if ears hadn’t been adequately assaulted by the Wagner-Liszt, he closed by unleashed the late Bulgarian-French composer André Boucourechliev’s Orion 3, all turbulent crashes and clusters."

I thought it was very well played and found it interesting, enjoyable, extremely impressive, and a good program choice. I have him in the next round, and a plausible potential winner.


Also: I had a pleasant surprise when I went and listened to a couple of the players I hadn't heard, who I knew were fairly excoriated here -- went and listened with curiosity, and some dread. But I was surprised and relieved at how good they were. From what I had read, I expected Gustavo Miranda-Bernales to be an embarrassment, but IMO he wasn't at all. I thought he played beautifully, with many wonderful things; yes, not as technically capable as most of the others, maybe all of the others, but more than all right. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not picking him to advance either -- but I wouldn't consider it ridiculous if he did. And Steven Lin -- after what I'd read, I expected him to be abominable. Granting that I didn't listen completely through -- just skimmed, as I did with Gustavo also -- I thought he was quite good, and a worthy budding professional performer. I thought at least that they were both deserving of being there, and I didn't expect to.
Posted by: rachpag

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
I feel like Deljavan has a bit of an edge making it to the next round simply because he's the only contestant from the last competition.


Alexei Koltakov was a finalist in 2001, and didn't even make it past prelims in 2005.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:42 AM

Unfortunately Rana in my mind dropped out of contention with a timid and humorless Abegg followed by a rather bland Ondine. Wanted to like Favorin now without his glasses but couldn't connect with his Tannhäuser.


Short list,,,

Chernov - a strong first phase.

Garritson - Prokofiev 7. Is it enough to buy a ticket to the finals?

Huangci - still a front runner but not convinced she has enough to win it.

Khozyainov - been hard on his playing because he's the most talented here, just needs to gain maturity. Anticipating his Liszt sonata.

Mndoyants - a dark horse. Need to hear more.

Poliykov - admired his Pictures , need to hear more.

Sakata - interesting beethoven op 54. The Scriabin was a bit too cerebral needs to let loose. Seems I'm the only one with him on the short list.

Chen - impressive Scriabin 5 and Bartok. Could blow everyone out of the water with the hammer.

Dumont - wasn't prepared to like but a creditable and compelling Gaspard. Chopin scherzo less so. Will be a challenge to get to the finals.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:53 AM

Originally Posted By: opus88
Unfortunately Rana in my mind dropped out of contention with a timid and humorless Abegg followed by a rather bland Ondine.....

Are you sure you had the sound turned on? grin
Posted by: AldenH

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:54 AM

Okay y'all, time to get one thing straight: things sound VERY different in the hall. Among those lauded for their color, Taverna (for example) did not sound clear in the hall. Koziak's sound was sweetly ringing and from the mezzanine, he sounded noble, and frankly glorious. The composite effect of his performance (minus the stage habits, which will in the end work against him) was emotionally overwhelming: his subtlety and absolute life-or-death conviction were breathtaking. I don't think he's what the competition is looking for, but make no mistake: he is one of the very few timeless artists present at this competition. I am kicking myself for missing his first recital.

With that said, it's late and I'll post my thoughts on more performers later, but here's my semifinalist list with highlights:

Chen (Bach ornamentation, Bartók atmosphere, Scriabin intensity - the occasional roughness of his Bach may work against him)
Daneshpour (exquisite fleet and light touch, distinct and original personality - a double-edged sword.
Deljavan (perhaps too eccentric, but his Op. 25/6 and 7 were otherworldly)
Dumont (extremely solid overall, perhaps a bit too straight-ahead at times)
Favorin (magical Schubert, and hypertechnique in the Boucourechliev, but perhaps his rough start in the W-L Tannhaüser will set him back. His second recital may silence doubts)
Kholodenko (beautiful sound and stunning contrapuntal delineation, I want to hear more)
Koziak (main points above - his semifinal program looks like it will play to his strengths)
Rana (real fire, but I'm not really looking forward to her semifinal programming choices)
Sunwoo (truly subtle and sensitive artistry, and I'm excited about his second prelim round programming)
Yuan (I don't understand the backlash against him on this forum: his Stravinsky was buoyant, effortless, and a total joy to hear)

For the final two, McDonald (for color, tone, and character) and Khozyainov, or perhaps Taverna, Sangiovanni, or Sakata.

Didn't hear Mndoyants K-T Lin, Sangiovanni second round, Huangci, Greco, Garritson, Buratto, or Abrosimov. I'll catch most of them in the coming days.

I think it's a bit too early to call the winner, but most seem to have their money on Rana at the moment.
Posted by: Ferdinand

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
....They asked Scipione what his favorite body part was.

ARE YOU KIDDING? ha

I think I'd have to say "coccyx" and see what she did with that. grin


This was a dude, not Jade. These are the pre-filmed interviews where they click the little film thingy. But coccyx would be a good answer.

I'd have said "the clavichord." (It's in the spinal canal.)

A prize for the first person to identify the reference.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: AldenH
....Rana (real fire, but I'm not really looking forward to her semifinal programming choices)....

My goodness gracious! grin

Her solo semifinal program:

SCRIABIN Sonata No. 2 in G-sharp Minor, op. 19 (“Sonata-Fantasy”)
THEOFANIDIS Birichino
CHOPIN Twenty-four Preludes, op. 28

Quote:
I think it's a bit too early to call the winner, but most seem to have their money on Rana at the moment.

Good! That echoes the main impression here. I don't think ours is exactly like that -- I don't think we have anyone quite so singled-out -- but I think most of us would be very happy with her as a winner.

And BTW, no need to be saying "the" for winner; there can be up to 3 gold medals, and there have sometimes been 2.
Posted by: opus88

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: opus88
Unfortunately Rana in my mind dropped out of contention with a timid and humorless Abegg followed by a rather bland Ondine.....

Are you sure you had the sound turned on? grin


During the Schumann or Ravel? wink

Yes it was loud and clear. Abegg was too delicate and careful. Need more abandon. Ondine compared to all versions played so far was plain bland except for a sudden spark in the middle of the piece where it is unexpected but she did not carry it forward.
Posted by: MathGuy

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I'd have said "the clavichord." (It's in the spinal canal.)

A prize for the first person to identify the reference.
Catcher in the Rye, is it not?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:39 AM

Originally Posted By: MathGuy
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I'd have said "the clavichord." (It's in the spinal canal.)

A prize for the first person to identify the reference.
Catcher in the Rye, is it not?

Yeah -- I got it by googling, but didn't post it, because that was cheating. grin
I didn't remember it at all.
Posted by: pianojosh23

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 04:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mozart made it interesting. Liszt didn't.

Really?

Yep. It's nothing more that Lisztian pyrotechnics with no form or shape as a set of variations.


I think this comment (and some others about this piece) show ignorance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for what Liszt did in this work. I agree with Charles Rosen that the Don Juan Fantasy is one of Liszt's greatest compositional achievements.

It's perfectly fine to have opinions, but I feel ones like this are born out of prejudice and a lack of study. So often with Liszt's music opinions born out of this are stated as being factual.

As for Scott Cantrell, I don't know why they even pay such a tunnel-visioned critic. His reviews show a complete lack of interest in broadening his horizons and making sense of what he doesn't understand. Not only that, they are so pompous and lack any degree of objectivity.
Posted by: Damon

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 07:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Scott Cantrell on Steven Lin: "The Liszt Reminiscences of Don Juan indulged every possible excess of crashing chords, stormy octaves, glittering thirds and whipped up noises of astonishing ugliness."


Yes it was glorious.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:05 AM

My Thoughts on Alex McDonald – 2nd Program

A very accomplished pianist, Alex McDonald produces his excitement through careful control of tempo and dynamics. He is a master of building up tension through steady tempos and accelerandi at critical moments. He releases tension gradually and through pronounced diminuendos – the volume he gets from the piano exceeds most artists in the competition and his moments of quiet and contemplation are therefore all the more noticeable. His Chopin Nocturne best displayed his use of tempo and dynamics to create compelling interest in the music. He has a great deal of coloration at his disposal, which he shows off in his programming choices of Ravel, the Petrushka Ballet Suite, and the Liszt Les Jeux d’eaux a la Villa d’Este.

Strengths – Alex McDonald can be described as an impressionist player from the muscular school of pianism. This sounds like a contradiction in terms, and in fact you will find no shimmering pools of water in Alex’s fountains at Villa d’Este. But you will find exciting splashes of water as they leap and cascade down from the fountains, and so much of that comes from Alex’s control of tempos and gradations in tone. He is a master of timing – of letting phrases breathe but never breaking their (or your) concentration. He is also the best Liszt performer in the competition, on the basis of his tremolos alone. Liszt is so difficult to play convincingly, not because of his technical demands, but because the tricks at his disposal sound shallow in the hands of most pianists. Alex is not one of those pianists. His Les Jeux d’eaux was gripping because of the momentum, the balance of effect against melody, and those tremolos, which were always under complete control, evenly played, murmuring or thundering their way as necessary, and never overtaking the performance.

Drawbacks – There comes a point, and tonight it was at the third section of Petrushka, where a lot of Alex goes too far. There is only so much volume and tone a listener can take from the piano, and notwithstanding all of his best endeavors to create tonal contrast, too much forte and fortissimo over a span of five minutes starts to grate on the audience.

Stage Mannerisms – Alex has the “I’ve finished playing” routine down well. Right hand thrust up in the air at the end of a piece, or head bowed to the knees at a quieter moment. The audience gets it immediately. He is refreshingly restrained when it comes to facial distortions, but every so often the right hand when it is not busy has to play a pretend tremolo on the cello. He did not have the presence of mind at the curtain call to leave his glass of water backstage, so he had to place it on stage to take his last bow. He did have the presence of mind to place his small doily under the glass of water so as not to stain the wood finish. Maybe he’ll win some points for charming naivete. The bows were certainly well-deserved.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Lol. I have to admit I have a soft spot for this utterly philistine audience.


I'm going to print this out, frame it, and hang it above my workstation, with a goal of looking at it before every time I log onto Piano World.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:10 AM

My Thoughts on Beatrice Rana – 2nd Program

Beatrice Rana went from a very high level of performance in her first program, to a pinnacle for this competition in her second program. She is now unofficially the person to beat in the competition, but there is a long way to go. She accomplished this by solidifying her reputation as a colorist at the very highest level of the art. Moreover, it is nearly impossible to find any other aspect of her pianism to fault. She is technically supreme, in the sense that technique disappears as a concern, and the high-wire risk of her having one error to mar her performance falls to the wayside. She adapts her style of playing, at least somewhat, to the composer at hand and the period in which the music was composed. She creates her excitement through mesmerizing tonal affects, and knows how to let these effects propel the music forward, rather than allow it to fall apart into small sections of deliciousness that don’t mean anything as a whole. In all these skills, she is so consummately ahead of all others in this competition that you are forced to compare her to professionals on the stage today.

Strengths – Piano teachers like to talk about coloration as the highest artistic accomplishment of a pianist. The concept, however, is very difficult to explain, especially when you suggest that the piano can sound like an orchestra in the right hands (this was always one of the encomia placed at the feet of Franz Liszt). Beatrice Rana gave a rare textbook example of the art of coloration at the keyboard in tonight’s performance, especially in the fourth section of Bartok’s Out of Doors suite. This quiet, slow movement features short motifs that are repeated – quick, pianissimo riffles in the left hand, a single note then picked out in the right hand, a chord two octaves higher, a hint of a melody four octaves lower. All of these motifs have a different sound to them, like individual instruments of an orchestra. Their individuality is created because Beatrice knows how to put exactly the same amount of pressure on the keys each time a motif appears. This delivers a certain force to the hammers and then the strings that produces one sound and one sound only. If she were to deliver more or less force to the hammers on those same keys the tone would be different, as it would if she were to use the same force five or six notes away from that particular motif. It takes an amazing sensitivity to piano tone to produce such different tones consistently – most professionals would falter now and then. Earlier we heard Beatrice use this skill to great effect in the Gaspard de la Nuit second movement. There is a two note repeated pattern throughout the movement, played pianissimo, that is meant to replicate a distant funeral bell. Professionals struggle just to keep this repeated note pianissimo. Beatrice succeeds in maintaining exactly the same force on this note no matter what she is doing with her other fingers. This is remarkable because you hear the distant, quiet, muffled funeral bell so consistently that it becomes emotionally disturbing, as it would in real life. The Gaspard is the most frequently played virtuoso piece in the competition, which now appears to be a major mistake in programming, because everyone else’s version is shallow in comparison to what Beatrice performed. The good news is that we have someone like Beatrice Rana to take over for the master colorist Grigory Sokolov when he retires.

Drawbacks – Beatrice is no architecturalist. She is not going to force you to pay attention to the magnificent structure of a piece of music – its A and B themes, the development, the variations, etc. Beatrice’s Beethoven will be very convincing; it will be filled with many delicate moments befitting music from the early part of the 19th century. It will also fit together well. What it will lack is that overwhelming sense of passion Beethoven creates through structure, repetition and development. Secondly, her delicate style of playing has caused her in the past to turn in underwhelming concerto performances when her volume does not match that of the orchestra. Concert pianists spend most of their time performing piano concerti, and not playing solo recitals. It will be vital for Beatrice to show later on in the competition that she can be a formidable presence on stage with 100 other musicians.

Stage Mannerisms – Beatrice is a delight to look at in her camera close-ups, because there is nothing to see other than an occasional fluttering eye. She keeps a stern demeanor on stage and rarely smiles, even when accepting applause. There is nothing about her that will distract you from listening intently to the music. While she will never win a Miss Congeniality award (though in person she is probably a delightful individual to know), she is the hands-down winner of this year’s “I’m Not Lang Lang” award. In a just world that alone would earn her at least $10,000 in prize money for helping move the piano world away from its reliance on distracting and silly facial and body mannerisms.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:15 AM

My Thoughts on Scipione Sangiovanni – 2nd Program

Advancing to the semi-finals of a competition of the caliber of the Van Cliburn requires at a minimum that the artist be technically self-assured. Sciopine Sangiovanni passed this test; he’s perfectly relaxed at the piano, he doesn’t have wrong notes, or dropped notes, and he gives you the impression he’s there to make music, not just win a competition. His selection of the Beethoven third sonata and Cesar Franck’s Prelude, Chorale and Fugue played to his strengths. He handles blocks of music admirably, builds up tone as necessary, maintains tension, and balances voices with care. He is a first-rate pianist, but still in search of something special, something that will distinguish him from many other first-rate pianists. Whatever that something special is, it was not on display in tonight’s program.

Strengths – Scipione Sangiovanni does an excellent job of holding together lengthy compositions that require a keen sense of structure and development. He does this by playing whole sections in the same tone and tempo, and slowing them down somewhat when he is moving to another section of the music. This is a perfectly respectable interpretive style for music such as Beethoven’s third piano sonata in C major, or moreso the Franck Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue. The Franck piece used to be a masterpiece, and it probably will come back as one someday if someone wins a competition playing it. That won’t be Scipione. He gave you a sense of confidence in playing this music. He had the internal voices brought out properly in the Fugue, and he recognized he was not playing Bach. Franck was more comfortable composing for the organ than the piano, and this composition has the aural majesty of an 19th century organ showpiece (think Widor). Scipione brought some of this out in his playing, but only up to a point. His playing was always controlled, but the Franck in particular could have benefited from more abandon, more contrast, more bravura.

Drawbacks – Scipione is a fine colorist, but again, he presented his different tonal shades in blocks at a time. If he is playing 16 bars of music that constitute one section of development, it will all be in mezzo-forte, for example. That is fine as a contrast with what came before or after at some other tonal level. There is little of interest within these sections, however. He did not add any interesting shading to the Beethoven melodic motifs that might last a bar or two; the difficult chordal runs in the last movement, for example, were played forte. There was no attempt to soften them or slow them down slightly at their peak. It’s not necessarily that Scipione cannot do this – it’s that he does not want to do this. Fair enough; he is producing first-rate music doing things his way. A different artist might outshine him by adding some sparkle to his runs, keeping his damper pedal cleaner, and shaping and shading the music more. Speaking of pedaling, Scipione had a well-prepped Hamburg Steinway to work with, which meant that the una corda shift really moved the hammers over to a softer strike point. This gave a pronounced change in tone whenever the una corda was used, and you could hear it clearly. This worked against Scipione in an otherwise beautifully played slow movement of the Beethoven. He would use finger control to produce piano and pianissimo tones, and then at the end of the phrase he would kick in the una corda and the pianissimo shifted dramatically lower. The pedal was doing its work well enough, but it gave the impression Scipione was not doing his job well enough by controlling tone through his fingers alone. This is, however, a minor criticism, as most pianists when faced with a really excellent concert grand will fall into the habit of using the una corda for quietness, and not just a change in timbre.

Stage Mannerisms - Scipione has sad eyes. He keeps them closed most of the time when playing, which makes him look sadder still, and when he reaches an emotionally moving section of the music, his whole face looks as if he is suffering some physical pain. He has the appearance at times of a grown-up Haley Joel Osment seeing dead people. His stage mannerisms could be much worse, so he deserves credit for an overall unassuming and calm demeanor. But when playing happy, happy music, such as is often found in early Beethoven (before his hearing problems), Scipione’s tinge of facial sadness takes away from the mood somewhat.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: pianojosh23
I think this comment (and some others about this piece) show ignorance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for what Liszt did in this work. I agree with Charles Rosen that the Don Juan Fantasy is one of Liszt's greatest compositional achievements.

I happen to disagree with Charles Rosen. It is not one of the great compositions of Liszt, and there is no prejudice involved. It is a technical showpiece devoid of great inspiration. Fireworks? Yes. Masterpiece? No.

It is best to use technique to express great music, rather than just blissfully pound away to impress an audience with a composition of little musical merit.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:21 AM

Originally Posted By: DameMyra
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Steven Lin....They also asked him to name an instrument he hated and he said flute.

Unwise! If you do name any instrument (which I'd try to avoid), you name one that you'd never in your life actually have to play together with -- especially not an orchestral instrument. You want to make friends with the people who play them, not enemies -- or else they might not practice their parts of your piano concertos very well. grin

If I had to name an instrument, I'd say harmonica or left-hand sewer flute. ha




Or bagpipe?



My college roommate once expressed an intention to compose a sonata for bagpipe and carillon.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:31 AM

Well, like they say, there's always room for Jello. We need fireworks from time to time as much as we need solemnity. For every Rudolph Serkin the concert stage has to have a Horowitz, and the Don Juan fantasy is a superb vehicle to display the technical skills of the performer and leave the audience humming the tunes on the way out the door. My absolute favorite performance of the Don Juan fantasy is by Lang Lang - I think at a live televised production at the Met or Avery Fisher. His was a supreme technical accomplishment, showing what he could really accomplish with his incredible skills put under some necessary self control.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:35 AM

I've got high hopes for Chens Hammerklavier on Wednesday because I'd like to see him win, but I must agree Rana's performance was excellent.
Posted by: pianojosh23

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 08:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: pianojosh23
I think this comment (and some others about this piece) show ignorance and a lack of understanding and appreciation for what Liszt did in this work. I agree with Charles Rosen that the Don Juan Fantasy is one of Liszt's greatest compositional achievements.

I happen to disagree with Charles Rosen. It is not one of the great compositions of Liszt, and there is no prejudice involved. It is a technical showpiece devoid of great inspiration. Fireworks? Yes. Masterpiece? No.

It is best to use technique to express great music, rather than just blissfully pound away to impress an audience with a composition of little musical merit.


If by little musical merit you mean Mozart's themes and harmony, and Liszt's ingenious (and unprecedented) use of the piano to adequately transfer the sound of an opera....Liszt used his profound understanding of the opera and his unique pianistic weaponry to summarize and provide a philosophical commentary for the entire opera, in only 16 minutes. Not only that, it's tremendously exciting, tuneful, and rich. What more could one want?

To me, both the Don Juan and Norma Fantasies are tremendous (and tremendously underrated) works, and works of great distinction -yes, masterpieces- in their own way.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:16 AM

Numerian's review of Rana's performance is the most intelligent, comprehensive and balanced assessment of any I've seen in this thread. Please keep them coming, at least for the pianists who are worthy of the time and attention it takes to listen and write like this.

It's enough to shame me into silence for the rest of the competition. Well, almost.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:25 AM

Some terrific and highly musical performances and some interesting PW comments for the evening performances.

Too bad some posters seem mostly interested in just criticizing the performers with perhaps a rare positive comment thrown in. I find it particularly off putting when a negative criticism deals with an interpretive issue as if it was black and white. Seems like these posters main motivation is to see how critical they can be in order to impress others with their great knowledge. I think most reading these endlessly negative arrogant comments are just turned off.

Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:40 AM

Point taken, plover. It was a valid point the first time you made it too.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:52 AM

Moderator's note:

Let's try to have more discussion and less play-by-play comments (and fewer digressions into grammar) in the thread. If you don't like someone or something, try to tell us why instead of just a one-sentence pan that won't make sense to anyone who isn't watching the webcast at that very moment. Yes, I'm also guilty of that, but let's try to keep the level of discussion higher from here on in. Thanks!

With that in mind, thanks to Numerian for the great reviews - keep 'em coming!

An explanation to my earlier ranking of the semi-finalists: the level of some of the contestants truly speaks as to whether they are ready for the "big time" or not. IMO, Huang, Dong, Lin, Birnales, and Daneshpour, while fine players, don't seem to be ready for the level of commitment that winning this competition will present. A few more years of performance experience and more exposure in international competitions will help them be more comfortable onstage. Right now, it seems as if they're just doing what their teacher tells them to instead of trusting their intuition.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Numerian
Point taken, plover. It was a valid point the first time you made it too.
Thank you.

I enjoyed your reviews. The only part I somewhat disagree with is your comments on facial expressions. I think very few audience members can really see the type of extreme expressions some contestants make. These super close up non profile views can be distracting to some when viewed by the cameras for live or YouTube performances but I think they pose far less of a problem for audience members. OTOH at live concerts I always sit near the center of the hall so the facial expressions may be more visible to those sitting on the far right and close to the stage.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:55 AM

It's always advisable to be sure all the cows have come in from pasture before closing the barn door. I posted my list of favorites for the semis yesterday afternoon before I'd listened to Alex McDonald. Now that I have, I'm relieved to see that my list only had 11 nmaes, so I'm adding him to the twelfth spot, though he's well into the top half of that group for my money.

How nice to hear Ravel other than Gaspard, played with such incredible mastery of tone and phrasing. Oiseaux Tristes was almost as good as Rana's Le Gibet in its near-perfect production of colorful tone. The Liszt Jeux d'Eau was also a thing of beauty, and his Nocturne was spellbinding. My only reservation about his programming for this second recital is the absence of anything from the baroque or classical eras. But I think the Goldbergs will fill that hole in the next round. I'm confident we'll get a chance to hear them.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Right now, it seems as if they're just doing what their teacher tells them to instead of trusting their intuition.
How can you tell about something like this? can you you give a specific example to explain this a little more?
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: pianojosh23
... Liszt's ingenious (and unprecedented) use of the piano to adequately transfer the sound of an opera...

Sorry, it sounds nothing like the opera.
Posted by: Numerian

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Numerian
Point taken, plover. It was a valid point the first time you made it too.
Thank you.

I enjoyed your reviews. The only part I somewhat disagree with is your comments on facial expressions. I think very few audience members can really see the type of extreme expressions some contestants make. These super close up non profile views can be distracting to some when viewed by the cameras for live or YouTube performances but I think they pose far less of a problem for audience members. OTOH at live concerts I always sit near the center of the hall so the facial expressions may be more visible to those sitting on the far right and close to the stage.


I thought very carefully about this before putting in any comments on stage mannerisms (and admittedly my comments can be overly-cute). Still, I think it is time. The age of video performances is definitely upon us, and vastly more people are going to see the artist close, in gory hi-def detail, than are going to see them from a distance in the auditorium. Even then, the audience seems to have a Jumbotron at their disposal at the back of the stage, so I think it is time to elevate the aspect of stage presence and facial mannerisms to a higher level when it comes to rating artists.

You might be able to answer this better, but does it seem to you like teachers are getting this message? The performers in this competition are far less flamboyant and distracting in their facial expressions than four years ago. Is the message coming down on high from teachers and conservatories to cut that stuff out?
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
How can you tell about something like this? can you you give a specific example to explain this a little more?


Things like repertoire choices (one competitor's programs are almost identical to Joyce Yang's, which is very contrived, IMO), stage demeanor, chronic lack of control and focus, and facial grimacing when things don't go as planned. It all goes back to performance experience and knowing what you're good at and what you can rely on under any circumstance.

On the other hand, Chen, who is the same age as many of those mentioned and from the same pedigree, was obviously comfortable onstage, knew what to program, and projected confidence and assurance throughout.
Posted by: Ferdinand

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 10:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: MathGuy
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I'd have said "the clavichord." (It's in the spinal canal.)

A prize for the first person to identify the reference.
Catcher in the Rye, is it not?

Yeah -- I got it by googling, but didn't post it, because that was cheating. grin
I didn't remember it at all.

The prize goes to MathGuy.
Good sportsmanship award goes to Mark_C.
Posted by: carey

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli
Numerian's review of Rana's performance is the most intelligent, comprehensive and balanced assessment of any I've seen in this thread. Please keep them coming, at least for the pianists who are worthy of the time and attention it takes to listen and write like this.

All three of Numerian's recent reviews were absolutely superb. Perhaps he should consider applying for the music critic job at the Dallas Morning News. Mr. Cantrell obviously needs to take a sabbatical. I'm sure the competition contestants would be wiling to take up a collection to buy him a one way plane ticket to Siberia. grin
Posted by: MathGuy

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: MathGuy
Originally Posted By: Ferdinand
I'd have said "the clavichord." (It's in the spinal canal.)

A prize for the first person to identify the reference.
Catcher in the Rye, is it not?

Yeah -- I got it by googling, but didn't post it, because that was cheating. grin
I didn't remember it at all.

The prize goes to MathGuy.
Good sportsmanship award goes to Mark_C.
Hey, I didn't google it either! But I suppose it's bad sportsmanship to complain about not getting the good sportsmanship award. wink
Posted by: kippesc

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Thank you.

I enjoyed your reviews. The only part I somewhat disagree with is your comments on facial expressions. I think very few audience members can really see the type of extreme expressions some contestants make. These super close up non profile views can be distracting to some when viewed by the cameras for live or YouTube performances but I think they pose far less of a problem for audience members. OTOH at live concerts I always sit near the center of the hall so the facial expressions may be more visible to those sitting on the far right and close to the stage.


I'm pretty sure that hanging above the piano in Bass Hall is a giant screen on which the camera feed that we all are watching during the webcast is shown in the hall. They've been doing that for a few years at Bass Hall which, among other things, allows ticket purchasers to choose seats that sound good without worrying about whether they will miss any of the visuals.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Moderator's note:

Let's try to have more discussion and less play-by-play comments....

Brendan: Can we say that there's room for both?
Besides that some people might not feel like doing anything more in-depth than "play-by-play"-type things (and so might just participate less or not at all if you really want to press that), I've found those kinds of posts very useful, in various ways. I like the mix of what we've had here.

That said, a huge bravo to NUMERIAN! thumb
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 11:51 AM

I also enjoy the immediacy of the running comments and reactions.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 11:59 AM

After watching phase 2 performances of Lin, Koziak and McDonald my list is like the below.

I was hoping that Koziak would do better, but the choice of programming works against him IMO.

Lin's performance was not adequate both technically and musically. IMO he is yet not ready for this level of competition.

McDonald actually surprised me. I worried in Ravel about his repeated notes, but if the jury does not deduce much points because of that I think he can advance.

I have yet to hear Garritson, but she seemed calm and confident in phase 1 and her programming for phase 2 is not that risky. I think she will manage to present a solid performance of these works. So IMO she might advance.


Rana
Huangci
Mndoyants
Khozyainov
Chernov
Chen
Kholodenko
Dumont
Sunwoo
McDonald
Poliykov
Garritson
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:00 PM

There is room for both, but one-sentence quips seem to have been majority of the thread as of late. I'm not asking for a soliloquy, just a little more content to keep the discussion at a high level. smile
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:03 PM

Is anyone else having trouble receiving the web stream?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Is anyone else having trouble receiving the web stream?


I did yesterday, switching to Chrome solved the problem.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
There is room for both, but one-sentence quips seem to have been majority of the thread as of late. I'm not asking for a soliloquy, just a little more content to keep the discussion at a high level. smile


But right at the moment I am thinking that Mndoyant's piano selection is not right and want to ask other's opinion on that. Obviously only who are following the live cast can answer.
Am I allowed to?
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:15 PM

C'mon. ha

He already said it's OK for the posting to be flexible. smile
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:16 PM

This Haydn is playful and fun! I'm also excited to hear the Taneyev. I know his piano concerto, which is quite good.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Lol. I have to admit I have a soft spot for this utterly philistine audience.


I'm going to print this out, frame it, and hang it above my workstation, with a goal of looking at it before every time I log onto Piano World.


Thank you? I guess?
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
C'mon. ha

He already said it's OK for the posting to be flexible. smile


Well then I want to say that I am enjoying Mndoyant's Haydn more and more.

Don't ask me to give a detailed analysis on his strengths, drawbacks and stage mannerism and why I like his playing. I just like it.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:35 PM

I missed all of Mndoyants' Bach due to lack of streaming. I really enjoyed his Haydn and Taneyev.

Yeah...my comments are probably going to continue to be brief and impressionistic because I don't want to stop listening long enough to craft any kind of detailed analysis. Please accept my apologies in advance.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 12:56 PM

Buratto has chosen one of Marta's signiture pieces with the Bach C minor.
Posted by: Fiorentino

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:11 PM

I love the sound of the NY D that Buratto is playing.
Posted by: Hakki

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:23 PM

"Definition of FORUM
1
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

2
a judicial body or assembly : court

3
a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion
b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities"

from the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Posted by: fnork

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:28 PM

There's one thing regarding the voting system that's not clear to me. Okay, so everyone votes for 12 pianists to pass to the next round and three maybe's. Are jurors allowed to include their own students among the 12 or not? What's the policy?

I remember a competition in europe where they even made public who the jurors had voted for/against. I know it wouldn't happen in Cliburn, but still...for fairness and transparency, it would perhaps be nice to see something like this happening. To add to the competitors stress in Maria Canals, they publish a list of all candidates and who got how many points at the end of each round...which was not so nice for a friend of mine for example, who did pass to semis but was ranked among the lowest of those who passed (he did get to finals in the end luckily, and got 3rd prize).
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Hakki
"Definition of FORUM....

But not necessarily of a thread! grin

Anyway.....I think you don't need to worry so much about it. Especially because I think Brendan (and others probably) will mind posts like these more than the play-by-plays.

Originally Posted By: fnork
There's one thing regarding the voting system that's not clear to me. Okay, so everyone votes for 12 pianists to pass to the next round and three maybe's. Are jurors allowed to include their own students among the 12 or not? What's the policy?....

We have to assume they can't. They have to list 12 + 3 people who aren't (and presumably haven't been) their students.

OK, let's see what is stated. This is from the link given by Marty:

"Any juror having, or having had during the preceding four years, a familial, teaching, or professional relationship with a competitor must declare such relationship. Master classes do not count as teaching relationship. The juror may, if he/she sees fit, include the name of this competitor on the ballot. However, in such cases, the juror's opinion will not count as a vote on behalf of that particular competitor. When counting the votes for each competitor, the computer program will express that juror's vote as the ratio between the total number of votes received and number of jurors eligible to vote for that competitor."

So.....that means (as near as I can tell) if a juror includes his/her students, those mentions don't count -- but effectively it enables the juror to grant votes to fewer than 12 + 3 other people.

BTW, I really don't get what exactly they mean by that last sentence: "When counting the votes for each competitor, the computer program will express that juror's vote as the ratio between the total number of votes received and number of jurors eligible to vote for that competitor." Does anybody? I wonder if there's some mistake in there, like a wrong word or something.

P.S. I wish they didn't restrict it to "the preceding 4 years."
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: fnork
There's one thing regarding the voting system that's not clear to me. Okay, so everyone votes for 12 pianists to pass to the next round and three maybe's. Are jurors allowed to include their own students among the 12 or not? What's the policy?


"Jurors with familial, teaching, or professional relationships with competitors
Any juror having, or having had during the preceding four years, a familial, teaching, or professional relationship with a competitor must declare such relationship. Master classes do not count as teaching relationship. The juror may, if he/she sees fit, include the name of this competitor on the ballot. However, in such cases, the juror's opinion will not count as a vote on behalf of that particular competitor. When counting the votes for each competitor, the computer program will express that juror's vote as the ratio between the total number of votes received and number of jurors eligible to vote for that competitor."

http://www.cliburn.org/cliburn-competition/about-the-competition/jury/voting-procedures/
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:34 PM

At the Queen Elisabeth, candidates who don't pass on to the next round are invited to speak to jury members to get feedback. Which I think is fascinating.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:42 PM

I've never been a huge fan of the Bartok sonata, but Burito Buratto is doing a nice job with it. Too bad I missed the Schumann and Bach, but I will go back to the on-demand!

I'm interested in hearing the next competitor's Polonaise Fantasy... A piece that really grew on me when I heard Cortot's recording smile

This interview after Buratto is VERY interesting and eye opening... Juilliard experience, repertoire choices for competitions, etc.
Posted by: BZ4

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:48 PM

Frustrating, missed Claire Haungci's Phase 2 recital, and they won't post it on the on demand replays. Wanted to hear how she did with the Pletnev transcriptions of Sleeping Beauty!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:49 PM

Great interview with Sean Chen. He says he's been working on his posture (but didn't say what he's trying to change). He also said he selected Bartok 2 concerto for this competition but it wasn't accepted.

He said he tries not to play pieces he doesn't feel strongly about, because if you don't feel strongly about it you're not going to have anything to say.

He said he doesn't play transcriptions for competitions anymore. He used to (Godowsky, Grainger) but he got negative feedback from juries about them, because they're considered second-level pieces.

Giuseppe Greco doesn't like fruit. His girlfriend is a soprano. A very warm, funny guy.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Lol. I have to admit I have a soft spot for this utterly philistine audience.


I'm going to print this out, frame it, and hang it above my workstation, with a goal of looking at it before every time I log onto Piano World.


Thank you? I guess?


It was a memorable remark.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Things like repertoire choices (one competitor's programs are almost identical to Joyce Yang's, which is very contrived, IMO)


And what was Joyce Yang's repertoire?
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 01:58 PM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
It was a memorable remark.


Oh, merci.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:01 PM

A brief word about Mndoyants. For someone 24 years old, he shows impressive musical maturity and incredibly calm stage presence. I thought his Bach toccata was outstanding -- crystal clear articulation and a great sense of architecture. The Haydn was full of good humor. And the Taneyev fugue was fascinating -- a rare example of late romantic counterpoint. Here too, Mndoyant's ability to communicate a clear musical line in the face of this density was wonderful. And the rhythmic energy and momentum he brought to the last modern work was terrific.

Another star in the making.
Posted by: prokof

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Giuseppe Greco doesn't like fruit. His girlfriend is a soprano. A very warm, funny guy.


I was only listening in the background, but I thought he said his favorite color is yellow because it reminds him of fruit. Then he said he doesn't like fruit.

I'm enjoying this Polonaise-fantaisie. Really can't wait to hear his Prok 8.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: prokof
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Giuseppe Greco doesn't like fruit. His girlfriend is a soprano. A very warm, funny guy.


I was only listening in the background, but I thought he said his favorite color is yellow because it reminds him of fruit. Then he said he doesn't like fruit.


Yes. Exactly correct.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:09 PM

Moderator Postscript:

Look, just post whatever you want. I'm not going to delete or edit anyone's posts, so stop fretting. smile

ANYWAY...

Lovely Chopin by Greco! It seemed more refined than Mndoyants from a few days ago.
Posted by: Brendan

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
Things like repertoire choices (one competitor's programs are almost identical to Joyce Yang's, which is very contrived, IMO)


And what was Joyce Yang's repertoire?


Vine 1st Sonata, Don Juan, Beethoven 31/3, Bach Overture in the French Style, and Prokofiev 2 are the common pieces between the two programs.
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
Originally Posted By: Eduard Hanslick
Originally Posted By: Brendan
Things like repertoire choices (one competitor's programs are almost identical to Joyce Yang's, which is very contrived, IMO)


And what was Joyce Yang's repertoire?


Vine 1st Sonata, Don Juan, Beethoven 31/3, Bach Overture in the French Style, and Prokofiev 2 are the common pieces between the two programs.


Ah. smirk
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:21 PM

Brendan, I certainly agree with you about Greco's Chopin. He totally understands the architecture of the piece. His balance and voicing is particularly fine.

He is bringing the same skills and understanding to the Prokofiev. He gets the angularity of the structure.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:25 PM

I loved the Chopin, very warm playing with good tone. The Prokofiev is great too, one of my favourite pieces!
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:25 PM

Greco could easily make the next round.
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:30 PM

Wow... This has been a FANTASTIC job by Greco, both the Chopin and Prokofiev! Definitely would love to see him in the next round smile
Posted by: Eduard Hanslick

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:31 PM

We'll be hearing this Prokofiev 8 again in the next chunk of recitals, from Abrosimov.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:32 PM

Note to piano techs at the competition: Please adjust or lube the damper pedal mechanism. It is clicking and is very annoying.

(Lot of good that will do. I just had to say it!)
Posted by: prokof

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:34 PM

Tons of mistakes in the vivace, but I loved it nonetheless.
Posted by: Emanuel Ravelli

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:35 PM

I missed Greco's first recital Saturday night, but I'm loving his performance of the Prokofiev 8th. Perhaps the most musical account of the 2nd movement I've ever heard, and the finale is a beautiful study in contrasts between his steely, hard sound (played at inhuman speed) and occasional detours into Cinderella-style lyricism.

This jury is going to have its hands full.
Posted by: Ralph

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:36 PM

I thought Greco's Prok 8 was very strong. Comparing it to the Prok 7 by Garritson, well I think I have to give the edge to Greco. I missed his Chopin.
Posted by: Kuanpiano

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:37 PM

Huge ovation, and he really deserves it. The coda at the end of the Prokofiev was sort of fudged, but it's impossible, so it's not a big problem. Good to hear so much energy, to contrast with a really good reading of the Chopin Polonaise-Fantasy. Hope he advances!
Posted by: prokof

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
The coda at the end of the Prokofiev was sort of fudged, but it's impossible, so it's not a big problem.

Especially at that tempo. IMO the trade-off was worth it. He carried the momentum straight to the end.
Posted by: Mark_C

Re: 2013 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Megathread - 05/28/13 02:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Brendan
....Lovely Chopin by Greco! It seemed more refined than Mndoyants from a few days ago.

I've been wanting to re-quote your tentative 'list' from yesterday, because I keep going back to it for reference -- and now I have a good excuse for it. grin

It seems a lot of us (probably you too!) have been getting some different ideas with this second phase. Like, I imagine you might now want to give some mention to Greco and McDonald, maybe others too. Here's your list from yesterday. Who would you now add? And, would you dare to say who you might then remove? (If not, then we'd have to say the last 1-2-3 spots are very up-for-grabs.)

Previously from Brendan:

Huangci
Rana
Mndoyants
Garritson
Taverna
Khozyainov
Gillham
Chernov
Chen
Dumont
Favorin

Wild