really worried for Greece right now...

Posted by: Nikolas

really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 02:06 PM

I'm sorry guys, but I have to let this out... I feel almost like home here and it's one of the nicest Internet places, with people ready to offer some valid advice, etc...

So, In case you haven't heard it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24141246

A 34 year old musician was stabbed to death by neo-nazi 45 year old. Ok, this much is something that can happen elsewhere. Problem is that the neo-nazi political party has 10%, and is in the parliament. In addition to that the austerity measures have torn the country SO MUCH that right now I'm afraid of a civil war.

In all honesty if something like this happens, I'll take my kids, a copy of all EMF scores, plus a few hard drives, an flee the country... And I'm NOT kidding!

[/panic mode off]

I previewed my post (as I advise others to do so) and I can see that the above is very... panicky. But it remains a dangerous situation right now, exactly because Greece has no social network to speak off: We never were a society and right now this is more evident than ever! frown
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 02:36 PM

That is so sad. R.I.P. Pavlos.
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 02:38 PM

Nikolas, if you are really concerned then it might be best to get repositioned in another country starting immediately, probably through connections you can get some sort of artistic employment and/or an artist's permit for many places. Unless you have a very good idea of where you are going and why then it might be best to not choose a Euro country, Japan, the U.K. or the U.S.

If you delay then by the time you leave you might not be able to move any Euros to speak of out of the country as already is the situation in Cyprus.

And whether you stay or go, don't keep your money in Euros or any of the other paper currencies.


M.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
That is so sad. R.I.P. Pavlos.
Shame to me for not mentioning this...

The information is a bit sketchy as of yet, but in any case a young man, a musician, my age is gone... by stabbing. And it's a real pity.

Rest in Peace Pavlos! smile And hope your family can hang in there...
Posted by: Steve Chandler

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 03:39 PM

Nikolas,

I'm very sad for your country and this situation. It seems like civility and decorum have become passe. We don't hear much about Greece in the US, so it's your judgment that matters here. If you don't feel safe then perhaps it's time to leave. I sometimes feel the US has gone crazy but it seems much of that is just media hype. We have Neo-nazis in the US too, but I only hear about them when I get a communication from the Southern Poverty Law Center (a group devoted to exposing hate crimes and teaching tolerance). I know my support won't mean anything but you have it. I respect you, your music and your judgment.
Posted by: Dwscamel

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 03:43 PM

Your panic is for good reason and I agree that it's time to start thinking of a plan incase things become too further out of hand. Keep us updated and stay safe.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 03:51 PM

I'm safe right now and both my kids are fast asleep in their room... So things are, right now, ok.

The right wing party (the neo nazi one) called Golden Dawn is getting ready to appear in the very place that Pavlos was killed.

The left wing party (around 20% in the recent elections) decided that the government is off the law (for whatever reasons of their own) and want to do some sort of a guerilla war inside Athens!

I don't know what on earth is happening right now... I'm keeping a very close eye on what's going on, and I hope that me and my kids will be safe. There's already more than 1 people to accommodate us abroad (including my wife in Azerbaijan) and there's bank accounts in England, where we lived for 4 years...

The one thing that needs to be done is to remain calm right now!...
Posted by: BruceD

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 03:59 PM

My thoughts are with you, your family and your countrymen, Nikolas.

Regards,
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 04:04 PM

Thank you Bruce. And thank you for your PM as well! smile

And thanks to everyone of course! smile
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 04:32 PM

Oh, Nikolas, that's very unnerving. I am reallly sorry to hear news like this and I can imagine all the concerns that are running through your head.

I can also imagine that it is more difficult with your wife being out of the country - no one at home to talk to about all this. Sure there's phone and skype, but it isn't the same.

I pray that this will all settle down very soon.
My thoughts are with you - stay safe!
Posted by: PrestoConFuocco

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 04:46 PM

I think that if a large group of people figures out a way to put the situation in Greece on the world's public agenda Europe will start watching the situation more closely, something that can definitely prevent drastic events like a civil war.
I don't know how much you can actually do, but if there's any way to raise public awareness, it's worth trying.
(Of course, wait and see how the situation developes, maybe things will work themselves out over time, I sure hope they will.)
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 04:55 PM

I'm also hoping that sanity will prevail. It's just that all this pressure is changing people! And our lenders don't seem to care much about the wreckage of Greece in the end.
Posted by: goddangol

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 05:10 PM

Get out of there NOW.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 05:37 PM

You are right to be feeling worried. History is full of tragic examples where people waited until they were "sure" a civil war or other disaster was brewing, and then it was too late.

Adopt a rational economics perspective: Lay out all the costs/benefits of leaving now/later/not at all, with the situation in Greece either deteriorating/getting better. You should decide to leave if this kind of analysis leads you to conclude that the cost of inaction given a bad outcome FAR outweighs the cost of acting and it turning out to have been unnecessary.

I am so sorry for you and your fellow countrymen. frown
Posted by: ChopinAddict

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 05:41 PM

I am so sorry for you, your family, and Greece as a whole, Nikolas. My thoughts are with you.
Posted by: TheHappyMoron

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 05:48 PM

i echo everyone else - such sad news.
neo-nazis for christ's sake, some people are so pathetic and medieval.

what with the whole syria and egypt thing (plus all the things you don't hear about) i sometimes wonder if people are inherently violent and just use any old excuse.

I sincerely hope you and everyone else in Greece remain safe.
Posted by: gooddog

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 06:00 PM

Nikolas, I am very concerned for you. Unfortunately, when economic conditions become stressful, history has show that the smaller minded people look for someone to blame, thus the hate crimes. In this day and age, sanity usually does pervail and I pray that it will. I can't offer any advice other than to remember that family always comes first.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'm also hoping that sanity will prevail. It's just that all this pressure is changing people! And our lenders don't seem to care much about the wreckage of Greece in the end.

I have always watched the rise of the Golden Dawn with trepidation. It is unfortunate that in such stressful times, people will turn to whoever promises them the quickest, easiest way out, even if those promises come with a loaded weapon pointed at their heads. Violence is never the answer.

I have many Greek friends. Some are still there; some moved here a long time ago. All of them are worried, too.

Stay safe, keep your head down, and if you should need a couch overseas somewhere -- I have two. smile
Posted by: jotur

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 07:55 PM

My thoughts are with you Nikolas.

Cathy
Posted by: sophial

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 08:33 PM

Nikolas,

This is worrisome for sure. What a shame, especially as Greece is the birthplace of democracy! It might be good to have your exit strategy all worked out and ready to use if needed. Take care, friend!

Sophia
Posted by: jmcintyre

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 11:01 PM

Nikolas,

I am definitely a "don't panic" kind of guy, but I will add my voice to the chorus suggesting you and your family consider leaving before it becomes too difficult or complicated to do so, if you're apprehensive about the situation. It may be difficult to know how things will turn out there, but your peace of mind - to say nothing of your family's safety - is of immeasurable value.

-Jim
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 11:09 PM

Golden Dawn's behaviour is both ridiculous and dangerous. They seem to operate by brute force and intimidation, and in the videos I've seen there is hardly anyone who stands up to them. Whatever happens with them the economic situation in Greece is not going to get better in the near future as the persons in power both in the Euro countries and the U.S./U.K., and now the present Japanese Prime Minister, don't seem to ever have read even one economics treatise or studied and spent much time thinking about any papers on monetary theory, and when they do something right it is by chance or because they are forced by circumstances. If I were you I would look to leave regardless of what happens with Golden Dawn. I wouldn't want to live somewhere where the economic situation has deteriorated to the extent that the power companies need government bailouts to keep the lights on. You need to think about what is best for you and your family and about the fact that the process to get securely into another country for the long-term can take a bit of time. A lot of Greek residents are moving to Sweden (and you would not need to learn Swedish as almost everyone here speaks English) but there are other options in Europe which might be better such as Norway and Switzerland.


M.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/18/13 11:22 PM

Nikolas, after Michael's post, you must think very seriously about where you are going to move. Sure, Sweden and Norway have a thousand years of culture, and fjords, and those little wooden shoes -- no, wait, that's Holland. But Philadelphia has the Rocky statue. Just sayin'.. laugh



Edit: got my country-of-origins mixed up!
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 12:43 AM

Nikolas. Sorry to hear this. I too think you need to get out for the sake of children. My prayers for safety of your family.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 12:51 AM

As I wrote my post, I started worried if it is wise to have this thread. Any one can search the web with GD and get this thread. And Nicholas, they can easily uncover you. You may want to ask the mods to remove the thread and going forward you may call the party Gold evening or something.
Posted by: synergy543

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 01:31 AM

Nikolas, it must be terrible living in such fear. Its hard to get a clear picture and assess the situation via the internet. Hopefully any decision you make will be rational and not based simply on fear. Although, it does seem that you could bring your skills to another country and work from there. However, leaving your country and family indefinitely must be a terrible decision to have to make. What about a temporary leave such as visiting your wife? (who if I understand is working overseas already?).

Be safe, Greg
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 01:50 AM

Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
As I wrote my post, I started worried if it is wise to have this thread. Any one can search the web with GD and get this thread. And Nicholas, they can easily uncover you. You may want to ask the mods to remove the thread and going forward you may call the party Gold evening or something.
you're actually right I think... hmmm... I'll have to contact Kreisler to the rescue once more...
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 01:59 AM

Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
As I wrote my post, I started worried if it is wise to have this thread. Any one can search the web with GD and get this thread. And Nicholas, they can easily uncover you. You may want to ask the mods to remove the thread and going forward you may call the party Gold evening or something.

I doubt any Golden Dawn members are keen classical pianists who might chance upon these posts. Their focus seems to be against immigrants in Greece (which Nikolas is not) which shows how ignorant they are of the causes of these economic issues.


M.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 02:04 AM

I'd hate for this thread to be deleted or anything, to be honest. I am grateful for your support and everything and I do think that there's not too much in my posts to indicate much of anything...

In any case, there are no riots currently. 65 people were held in custody from the police last night, but there seems to be an odd silence from the political parties.
Posted by: btb

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 02:13 AM

Amazing how history repeats itself ...
I was a schoolboy when Adolf Hitler (Deutchland) and
Benito Mussolini (Italy) were bosom pals.

After 6 years of tragic WWII when 20 million people lost their lives, Hitler finished up committing suicide while Mussolini was hanged.

But how can 10% neo-Nazis be allowed to terrorize
the present Italian population?

Any thoughts of flight will only increase the Brown-shirt percentage.

How well I remember news of the Allies steadily marching victorious up the length of Italy to defeat the Axis.

It took the Hiroshamo and Nagasaki atom bombs to defeat Japan.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 04:24 AM

It appears that there's movement...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/greece-ban-golden-dawn-pavlos-fyssas

I'm not too sure if this is a rumour or what it is, but in any case it's an indication that something must be done, for the so many things going wrong right now in Greece!
Posted by: Dara

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 04:41 AM

Greetings Nikolas,

I read your posting earlier today. ... and then read further news online about the situation.
I've been attuned from a distance the severity of problems and issues in Greece in recent years.
And the so many constant atrocities in the world at large.
Never ending ....

I sincerely wish you and your children and wife, the best plan of action.
Have you previously thought of making an exit from your homeland and adopt another country?
I know you've lived in England, and perhaps other countries.
Where would you go if you had completely free choice?
I think you have a choice.
And lots of support from the many friends and people who care about you.

It's perhaps difficult to imagine that you are personally threatened by current events ... directly in danger
Do you feel that things are escalating beyond the point of personal safety?

Caring wishes to you and your family,
and to your wonderful country

the little island i live on
has a very generous heart
if you ever find yourself stuck
you'll find a place here !


Posted by: PrestoConFuocco

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 05:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
It appears that there's movement...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/greece-ban-golden-dawn-pavlos-fyssas

I'm not too sure if this is a rumour or what it is, but in any case it's an indication that something must be done, for the so many things going wrong right now in Greece!


It's good to see that people understand the gravity of the situation, so let's hope the government and the people cooperate to get rid of the golden dawn party once and for all. (This needs to be in the head of the priorities)
Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 08:18 AM

Quote:
How well I remember news of the Allies steadily marching victorious up the length of Italy to defeat the Axis.


… and my father's youth was spent marching with that army. Not something he remembered with great fondness, and getting him to "remember" it at all took some doing.
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 09:29 AM

It's a wise decision to keep your wife away. I know the feeling of being foreigner during economic crisis. Even in the States around 2009 / 2010, some people with redder necks (is it correct?) did not view foreigners who "took" their jobs did not look kindly at me. It's quite understandable if you are laid off for 18 months or losing their houses, and see this Asian girl doing well enough to buy a grand piano. The saving grace for me was my husband (an American) who had also been laid off for two years. The moment my neighbors realized thàt I am actually supporting a US citizen I had no more eggs thrown at my car. I can only imagine how much more scary it could have been if it were like Greece now. Hang in there. In one way or another you will escape the situation. You have all our prayers. God bless.
Posted by: btb

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 11:26 AM

Quite right PD ... those in WWII don’t relish war tales ... and when I think how many of my friends lost their lives! ... I was just too young to join up when the war ended.

But the long and short of the Greek crisis is “filthy lucre” ... it was the Americans who got the world into a frenzied pickle with their over-sale of house mortgages ... and now we all have to pay the piper ... and Greece, for some reason which defeats my non-accountant brain, is presently holding the short straw.

It might be of interest to know that many Italian Prisoners of war (captured in North Africa with Montgomery’s push west from Alamein) were sent to Cape Town and helped build some magnificent local scenic drives ... such as that around Chapman’s Peak ... hairpin curves on a narrow two-lanes with a breathtaking view of the Atlantic.
(Keep your eye on the road!!)

The story goes that the Italians weren’t frontline soldiers, lacking the steely single-mindedness of the Deutche Wehrmacht.

My advice is for Nikolas and family to hang in there ...
if the American economy perks up (and we in South Africa
have been grateful for a recent huge jump in the gold price) ... it might just be a matter of time before things stabilize.

Kind regards, btb
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 12:03 PM

Thank you everyone! smile

I feel blessed to be here! smile

There are sooo many things to fix, that by just making a semi-political party illegal, doesn't help too much. But in the end we all need to keep calm and not further aggravate the situation, by replying to violence with violence!

As for leaving Greece...

I've lived in London for 4 years and have travelled quite a bit. My wife is in Asia, so certainly it is a possibility and one that I'm constantly exploring. Still I strongly believe that
a. We (Greeks) shouldn't just abandon Greece in such situations (as a precaution somehow). Assuming that we are the sane ones, then how can we leave our country to the thugs (of any direction...).
b. If I am to leave I'm trying very hard to do it in my own terms. We still have all the necessities available and the country is not (yet) in war. Hopefully it won't be. I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials), but I don't think it too probable. Or at least I'm still expanding on that...

For the moment, as I said earlier, I'm keeping a close eye on what's going on...
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials)

Check out Drexel in Philly. We used to call it the Greek mafia.. entire administration was Greek, and half the professors. smile
Posted by: FarmGirl

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 11:19 PM



What Nikolas told us made me think of this. This is a picture of a German piano called Hupfer. It's preserved in Japan and belong to a high school located in a remote village in Japan. There's a story behind this. During the end of World War Two the piano got two visitors. They were kamikaze pilots. They walked two days to get to the piano. They told the school master that they used to be students at Tokyo music conservatory ( this is like Juliard in Japan) but they have to fly on a kamikaze mission as soon as they go back to the base. They heard that there is a piano and wanted to come to play it before they die. They got a leave and came to the school. They asked for a score and the school master gave them the only score he had, moonlight sonata. After the soldier played all the movements everyone there were touched by emotion. The soldiers said with a clear face "thank you I feel better now I can die". Then children told them "solders I will follow you". The soldiers scolded the kids immediately. "Don't be absurd. You have to rebuild Japan. We are dying for that. We won't win".

I hate wars. It's a complete waste. These young man could have performed in Carnegie hall rather than dying in vain. They knew they have no chance. But they could not escape from the stupid kamikaze thing. It's a small island. If you resist you get killed. Music majors and literary majors were the first ones to be sent to front lines as kamikaze pilots or etc. my apologies for digress. It's just this while thing makes me mad
Posted by: La_plus

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/19/13 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: FarmGirl
But they could not escape from the stupid kamikaze thing. It's a small island. If you resist you get killed.


I think I would have tried to fly to a peaceful nearby country, land safely and figure out what to do from there.
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/20/13 03:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'd love to come to the US, or any western place to teach in a university, or something (considering I have the academic credentials)

Check out Drexel in Philly. We used to call it the Greek mafia.. entire administration was Greek, and half the professors. smile


There aren't many things I would say are certain, but a U.S. technical default is one of them, it is certain to happen, followed by a major economic depression in the U.S.

Anyone can collect the data, do the math, and chart the curves and equations to see this.

So long term I think Nikolas if he goes to a Western country might not want to choose one definitely headed for a financial and economic catastrophe. Norway, Sweden and Switzerland surely are relatively safer and more secure long term on that basis and as well unlike most European countries never committed the mistake of adopting the Euro currency.

Sweden is on the opposite path from the U.S., Eurozone and Japan, reducing taxes and government spending every year while keeping government debt levels at least relatively stable. And Sweden seems to be pervaded by a face-the-facts mentality and has various safe-haven attributes which let it recover during the Great Depression more rapidly than any other country, and also which enabled its unrivalled recovery from the 2008-09 crisis.

If Nikolas decides that he wants to visit Stockholm for some interviews or to get situated he can stay with me for free!


M.
Posted by: btb

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/21/13 07:01 AM

In provisioning for the weekend at our local food store ,
I met an elderly Greek gent called Johannes,
recently flown in from Athens ... he didn’t seem concerned about the unrest earlier mentioned by Nikolas ... however, he did say that Greece is in a financial pickle ... it would appear that Ireland is slowly sorting itself out.

Of special interest for me was hearing that Johannes was born on the somewhat distant Greek island of Rhodes ...
reading up on Internet has revealed an eventful, often violent past spread over 2,500 years and more.

PS I’ve just lunched on a sausage roll, gravy and chips ... and am ready for my afternoon zizz ...
not forgetting a medicinal brandy and soda on the side-table.
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/21/13 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
[...] a. We (Greeks) shouldn't just abandon Greece in such situations (as a precaution somehow). Assuming that we are the sane ones, then how can we leave our country to the thugs (of any direction...). [...]


It would be wonderful, imho, if you Greeks would emulate Iceland. (It would be wonderful if we United Statesians would emulate Iceland, as well! frown ) Here's to the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act. 'Nuff said, I suppose.
Posted by: RealPlayer

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/21/13 11:34 PM

Nikolas, I only now (so late!) clicked on your thread, and I'm very sorry for you and the Greek situation; I don't know what to say. Recently I was in another country in Europe for a music festival and (while I was in rehearsals) there was apparently an unexpected neo-Nazi rally in the park across from my hotel, with police surrounding, tear gas, etc. We have these types in the US as well, but I don't think they assert themselves so boldly.

I wish you and your family the best; please stay safe and if you must, consider leaving. My goodness. My thoughts are with you.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/22/13 01:22 AM

Joe thank you very much.

It woulnd't be verbien, would it? (Switzerland)...

The problem exactly, if I may say so (which is sad) is that the problem is not the neo nazi, or the various violent acts. Sure they are hugely ugly, and they should be thrown to jail, but the problem is that the society (if we can call it that) is falling apart rapidly... frown
Posted by: Marco M

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/25/13 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
I doubt any Golden Dawn members are keen classical pianists who might chance upon these posts.


Unfortunately you will find bad people among the better educated ones the same as you will find good people among the lower educated ones, whatever topic, profession, carreer or hobby they might be in.
This is one of the reasons why Nazis could take over Germany in the last century. Some are loud and visible on the street, and some are quite and active at their bureau. Both are a danger and it needs a lot of courage to stand up against those estrays without civilisation if your neighbourhood wouldn´t publicly be with you anymore. The joint danger unfortunately can only be faced by joint courage. Therefore everybody is encouraged to early join in and never again let space to Nazis, but actively curtail them.
Nikolas, all the best for you and your country.
Posted by: David-G

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/25/13 08:18 PM

Nikolas, I wish you all the best in this difficult situation. Unless the Germans change their policy, which they show no sign of doing, I cannot see how the economic situation in Greece is going to improve unless and until it leaves the Euro. But even though that might ultimately lead to a happier situation, exit from the euro would cause a severe crisis in the short term. So I do wonder if it might be prudent for you to come to the UK for a few years until things hopefully improve in Greece; we do here have the advantage of not being in the euro, and the economy is actually growing (so they say).
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 12:20 AM

Small update...

The government is actively looking into the 32 (!!!) crimes that this particular party seems to be connected to. Several parliament members seem to be linked to such crimes.

Of course if this happens, big chances are that we would have to go to elections once more... laugh One happy country once more! grin

It was a bit hellishly last night, since anarchists (by definition leftists here in Greece) rallied on the office of the party... Athens lighted up...

Marco and David: Thank you guys!
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 01:27 AM

Well, 8 days later, and so far so good. Of course, the US gov't said the same thing on 9/10/2001. Hope things continue to improve, even if the steps are small..

Edit:

PS: You didn't thank me for the couch offer, which leads me to only one conclusion. When have you seen my couch before? grin
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 01:57 AM

Yikes!

Indeed I didn't thank you, or Michael, or anyone offering help!

Guys you made my every minute when I'm reading this! I know that I've got friends all across the globe! smile

And the coach can't be THAT bad derulux! grin
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 02:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Yikes!

Indeed I didn't thank you, or Michael, or anyone offering help!

Guys you made my every minute when I'm reading this! I know that I've got friends all across the globe! smile

And the coach can't be THAT bad derulux! grin

It's from a place called "The Dump"... laugh
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 11:36 AM

I just read on "Inside Higher Education" that the University of Athens and "several other Greek universities" have suspended operations because of the austerity programs taking place in Greece. frown It is sad to think that the cradle of Western civilization cannot support universities any more...
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 03:24 PM

Monica: It's true, but I have some reservations on what exactly is happening... Media are being sketchy (at best) about this...

If I may offer some insights on the Greek universities:

1. Civil workers (college/university professors) can't get fired. however they retain their right to participate in strikes. You can imagine what this means.

2. At the same time, of course, those who work in the public sector and CAN get fired, they get fired every 8 months (otherwise legally they can claim they are necessary to the nation and enter the "not being fired" zone)!!!!

3. In any case the universities are run by political side parties! There are side parties of the big political parties inside the universities, which create some huge problems. By large a lot of the problems (including looting of equipment, BUILDING A BRICK WALL in the doors of professors, and sabotaging elections, etc) are all happening thanks to the existence of such parties inside the university.

4. In addition to the above, you can imagine that a large % of the funds that come for research, never reach their destination.

5. Not to mention that because of the late junda (more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374) the university has total immunity to outside laws, etc. The police actually CANNOT get into the university without license/permission from the top head of each university (which always is met with doubt from anyone working in a university)...

If you were to ask me, I'd say that no university should be shut, but there are so many things that need to change...
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 06:17 PM

Now in the news from Greece it is written that a union of army reservists has demanded resignation of the Greek government:

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2013/09...-of-government/

I located their website which is here:

http://keed-hellas.blogspot.com/


M.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/26/13 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Monica: It's true, but I have some reservations on what exactly is happening... Media are being sketchy (at best) about this...

If I may offer some insights on the Greek universities:

1. Civil workers (college/university professors) can't get fired. however they retain their right to participate in strikes. You can imagine what this means.

2. At the same time, of course, those who work in the public sector and CAN get fired, they get fired every 8 months (otherwise legally they can claim they are necessary to the nation and enter the "not being fired" zone)!!!!

3. In any case the universities are run by political side parties! There are side parties of the big political parties inside the universities, which create some huge problems. By large a lot of the problems (including looting of equipment, BUILDING A BRICK WALL in the doors of professors, and sabotaging elections, etc) are all happening thanks to the existence of such parties inside the university.

4. In addition to the above, you can imagine that a large % of the funds that come for research, never reach their destination.

5. Not to mention that because of the late junda (more about this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374) the university has total immunity to outside laws, etc. The police actually CANNOT get into the university without license/permission from the top head of each university (which always is met with doubt from anyone working in a university)...

If you were to ask me, I'd say that no university should be shut, but there are so many things that need to change...


That's eye-opening, Nikolas, and I promise never to complain about American higher education bureaucracies again.

The system in Greece seems so broke, I don't know what to even suggest as a fix. frown

Posted by: Piano*Dad

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/27/13 08:16 AM

Monica,

If you want to read a good, short, generalist introduction to some of the issues in European academies, read

"Technology, Research, and Universities," which is a chapter from The Future of Europe, by Alesina and Giavazzi. I suspect you can grab it online, or from your friendly neighborhood university library.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/27/13 03:56 PM

Thanks, P*D, I'll look it up.
Posted by: SBP

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/27/13 06:11 PM

I'd suggest taking an extended vacation to Switzerland, Britain, France, Sweden, Canada, the US, or pretty much any place else. It's better to be safe than sorry with this sort of thing.

It's a damn shame that the birthplace of democracy is now slowly crumbling into an unstable nightmare. And don't get me started on the issue of the Parthenon and all the other architectural treasures of the ancient Greeks 0_o
Posted by: Michael Sayers

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/27/13 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: SBP
I'd suggest taking an extended vacation to Switzerland, Britain, France, Sweden, Canada, the US, or pretty much any place else. It's better to be safe than sorry with this sort of thing.

I think more than an extended vacation is needed. Remember that when it became clear Lehman Brothers would be liquidated and have its true market value disclosed it was said that the world financial system was hours from shutdown. Behind the Greek crisis is this issue with all the banks, and also the debts and obligations in most Western countries which these countries' economies are not competitive enough to service. Articles talk about debt to G.D.P (gross domestic product) but this is not the issue - production is one thing, profit is something else, and viable taxation and/or repayment of debt must emerge out of profit at the same time that profit is the avenue of savings and reinvestment to grow an economy.

Nothing against Greece - it is a beautiful country - but I would not want to be living there when the lights go out because there can be no further government bailouts for the power companies.

I'm not saying that will definitely happen, but there are entirely plausible scenarios in which it does happen.

The risks involved with staying in Greece while all of this plays out need to be acknowledged.


M.

Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/28/13 08:00 PM

Keed is bull*ahem*.

And in other news today: http://news.yahoo.com/greek-far-leader-other-legislators-arrested-185146978.html

In a rather superficial way, the above news makes me feel nice...
Posted by: gooddog

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/29/13 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Keed is bull*ahem*.

And in other news today: http://news.yahoo.com/greek-far-leader-other-legislators-arrested-185146978.html

In a rather superficial way, the above news makes me feel nice...
It's a relief to see the majority quashing a violent, intolerant minority. What gives me pause is when I think of how something like this would be handled in my country where freedom of speech is so carefully guarded. I wonder where the fine line is between individual rights and what is best for a free, democratic society. I wonder if these awful people might get away with what they are doing here. Scary.

Looking at the pictures on your link, Nikolas, reminds me that people are the same everywhere. The Greek people look like, well, people. Those pictures could have been taken anywhere. I find it uplifting that we are all connected.
Posted by: btb

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/29/13 01:47 AM

VOA news this morning

"Greek police have arrested five parliament members of a far-right party following allegations that a party activist has killed a leftist musician.

Founding leader of the Golden Dawn party Nikos Michaloliakos, spokesman Ilias Kasidiaris and three other far-right lawmakers were arrested Saturday on charges of belonging to a criminal organization.
More than 10 other party members also were arrested."


regards, btb
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/29/13 02:11 AM

I'm just wondering if it's right of me to use a pianoworld thread as a kind of a blog for something that is rather political in nature...

In any case I think that I'm much calmer now (evidently) and things seem to be moving to the right direction, so there's no reason for this thread to stay floating for much longer.

Many many thanks for all the support here and in PMs. And thanks for reading, listening, thinking and posting and all that... I'll try not to post here again with news update.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/29/13 02:16 AM

Nikolas, I sent some information about my couch to a few Greeks I know, and their reactions clearly have led directly to this recent development. I wish I could say I did more than buy a crappy couch, but I'll take all the credit I can get. haha laugh

Glad to hear some of the tensions are easing. I certainly hope the trend continues, for you, for Greece, for the EU, and ultimately (and honestly) potentially for the global economy.
Posted by: wr

Re: really worried for Greece right now... - 09/29/13 07:54 AM

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I'm just wondering if it's right of me to use a pianoworld thread as a kind of a blog for something that is rather political in nature...

In any case I think that I'm much calmer now (evidently) and things seem to be moving to the right direction, so there's no reason for this thread to stay floating for much longer.

Many many thanks for all the support here and in PMs. And thanks for reading, listening, thinking and posting and all that... I'll try not to post here again with news update.


Don't worry about it - it's apparently okay or else the hall monitor would have reported it to the principal and got the thread shut down. Or deleted.

The only thing I'd suggest is that if you feel compelled to do another like it at some time in the future, putting a simple "OT" at the beginning of the subject line shows us that you recognize that it not really the right place, but you need to post it here anyway. After all, people have posted utterly [censored] inane sports [censored] here in the past and got away with it. This thread certainly rises above that kind of thing in terms of worth, IMO.