fingering for chromatic scales

Posted by: pianojerome

fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 12:32 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=91Byb28Cp50&mode=related&search=

That's a good fingering. It's the same for starting on a black key, also -- just start on 3 (always 3 on the black keys) and then continue as usual.
Posted by: BruceD

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 02:27 PM

That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales.

Regards,
Posted by: Robert Kenessy

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 02:52 PM

Thanks for posting this. Interesting fingering. Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

By the way, Sam, I hope it's not because of the lukewarm (at best) reception of his hair-do in Pianoworld, that mr. Rudess saw a barber... \:D
Posted by: Minaku

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 03:11 PM

So... you mean that chromatic fingering isn't standard? >_> I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.

The comments in the section below make me grind my teeth... with what emotion, I can't tell.
Posted by: argerichfan

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 03:24 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred.
Posted by: Kevin88

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 05:27 PM

I use that fingering also, but I never knew it was "liszt's"
Posted by: David-G

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/03/07 06:58 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by BruceD: That's the fingering that I almost always use for chromatic scales. [/b]
Same for me. That's how I was taught. I find it very straightforward, and easy to pick up if there is a section of chromatic scale in the middle of a piece.
Posted by: Pahl Bankschuler

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 12:08 AM

Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.
Posted by: T.S.R.

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 12:28 AM

I think that's pretty much the standard.
Posted by: BassoonyPianoKevn

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 12:38 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books. [/b]
It's funny how you brought that up because my teacher is currently having me play some studies from those books. I find them pretty interesting and would agree they are unconventional.
Posted by: argerichfan

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 02:05 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Pahl Bankschuler:
Busoni came up with several very interesting and unconventional patterns for chromatic fingerings. When playing at very high speed he often utilized the fourth and fifth fingers. Also of interest are his fingerings for chromatic seconds, thirds, fourths, fifths and sixths. This is all published in his two exercise books.
Very interesting, Pahl. As one with the highest admiration for Busoni, I would be curious to see those books.

Myself, I have always found the so-called "Liszt" fingering more to my liking. I've always felt it's given me more reliable velocity and legato in fast chromatic passages. Personally -and IMHO of course- I wouldn't want to use anything else in the "Grave" of the Pathetique or the Liszt B minor Ballade.
Posted by: iconoclast

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 08:25 AM

for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering?
Posted by: PoStTeNeBrAsLuX

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 08:27 AM

1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required. Though it perhaps takes a while to feel happy with the 'thumb-over' character of getting to the G#...

-Michael B.
Posted by: argerichfan

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 10:11 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by PoStTeNeBrAsLuX:
1234 1234 1234 (thumb on C, E and G#) sometimes works quite well depending on context,especially where a speedy flourish is required.
Dohnanyi gives that fingering (with left hand using 1432 1432 1432 in parallel) for a chromatic scale up two octaves and down. I've found it helpful for practise, though he doesn't imply its use in actual performance, only as an exercise.
Posted by: Amant

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 10:42 AM

3-1 fingering, pincered fingertips:
e.g., RH starting on F sharp:
3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-2-3.....
Posted by: BruceD

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 10:44 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by iconoclast:
for the benefit of those of us unable to view youtube, what exactly is Mr. Rudess' proposed fingering? [/b]
Starting on any key :

RH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on F and C.

LH: 3 on all black keys; 1 on all white keys except for 2 on E and B.

Regards,
Posted by: Shellman

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 02:31 PM

I was taught 3-1 in the same way as others have stated. I've tried Liszt's fingering but find it uncomfortable but this probably is more due to 27 years of doing it the 3-1 way!!
Posted by: BruceD

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/04/07 03:24 PM

I think that the 1-3 fingering will work best for brilliant passages while the 1,2,3,1,2,3,4 fingering probably works best for smooth, legato passages.

Regards,
Posted by: Robert Kenessy

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 03:47 AM

All this fingering discussion makes me wonder whether a chromatic glissando is possible (i.e. black AND white key glissando). One can reach much higher speed than with a finger scale.

Is there any composition than suggests this?

Or am I consciously trying to be innovative \:D ?
Posted by: AndrewG

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 09:48 AM

I use BruceD fingering for normal playing.

For training the weaker fingers I practice with
RH: 5343453434345...
LH: 5454543545454...
These are 13 notes starting on C and ending on C.
Posted by: Bassio

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 01:17 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by argerichfan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Robert Kenessey:
Up until now I used what my previous teacher called 'Liszt's fingering'.
Over two octaves starting at C ending on C, going up:
1234123123412312312341231

That's the fingering I have always preferred. [/b]
Yeah me too.
Posted by: Muzzzz

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 08:37 PM

This fingering is used by Busoni in his edition of Liszt's Chasse-Neige, starting on E:

123 1234 12345

It's benificial in that it's the same pattern for every octave, as opposed to the other Liszt fingering which is for 2 octaves.. it's a tad awkward coming down though...
Posted by: Theowne

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 10:11 PM

Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

 Quote:
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending....
Posted by: kwchang007

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/05/07 10:15 PM

I've always used 1-3-1-3-1-2-3-1-3-1-3-1-2-3 etc.
Posted by: Minaku

Re: fingering for chromatic scales - 10/06/07 08:50 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Theowne:
Yep, this is what I was taught as well.

 Quote:
I love it when he says "my fingering", as if he invented the fingering he's teaching.
Or he could just mean "my fingering" as in "the fingering I use"...Which is the way my teacher speaks, the way that I speak, and the way that most people would speak when comparing or teaching fingerings they have learned.

No need to always be condescending.... [/b]
You can say that when you've originated the fingering, or play that fingering in a piece. But fingering for scales don't really belong to anyone (except for whoever created them) since they've been standardized for the most part.

If he said "my fingering" for a piece he was demonstrating, and then did the editorial fingering versus his fingering, I wouldn't nitpick. Also, "the fingering I use" is to me wholly different than "my fingering". Note that no one in the thread has said, "That's my fingering as well."

As for the Liszt fingering, I tried it and it felt quite uncomfortable passing the thumb underneath the fourth when it's on G. Should I be playing closer to the black keys, or does it always feel that way?