Rapidvoicer.com?

Posted by: rysowers

Rapidvoicer.com? - 12/07/12 12:51 AM

I just noticed this site advertised in the latest PTG Journal. Looks like some quick & dirty voicing tools sold at a premium. The videos did not impress me very much with the so-called improvement.

From the look of the tools, I imagine one of the techniques is to scratch with a dental tool in the string grooves to reduce some of the stridency in the tone. Of course you can buy a dental scraper for a few bucks at Harbor Freight.

He doesn't disclose very much about how this revolutionary system works - I guess you have to pay $150 for the webinar to find out. Hmmmm....

I'd be curious at what others make of this -

http://rapidvoicer.com/

Posted by: beethoven986

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 12/07/12 12:59 AM

I saw this in the Journal as well. My impression was the same as yours.
Posted by: David, Las Vegas

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 12/07/12 09:56 AM

Not impressed with the video either. The results are marginal using the usual tools that most voicing technicians already have. To me the result appears to be the same if I were to do a touch up voicing on a worn strike point just to break the percussive and unpleasant hammer strike without the needed filing. The tools are worth it if the voicer has the experienced ear and knows where to place the pick. String to hammer mating should be discussed as well.
Posted by: Olek

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 12/07/12 10:25 AM

This is not voiced.. Just broken so the tuning does not hurt.

The problem is about knowing what is a good piano tone made of.

But the guy seem to believe in what he say that may be an advantage...

Playing scales with sustain pedal is the oldest trick from pianoI dealers to sell pianos not prepared or with a harsh tone.. Which is the case of that Yamaha. noisy and percussive damped by near crown needling.. Close tone. No elasticity.
Posted by: rysowers

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 12/07/12 02:06 PM

I'm glad we got this discussion going, so at least if someone searches the web for more information they will find some alternative information. It could save a few people some money!
Posted by: studio43

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 05:05 PM

David, This is that guy in the video this thread is about....

This method is not scraping in the grooves or a pre voicing, it is actually using a high quality tool to needle into the hammers. it is much like a glovers needle. It can not be performed the same as with traditional needles as well as with this tool that my mentor found and developed.

He has been using it for 30 years and has probable voiced tens of thousands of pianos. Far more than any average technician. If you don't try it or use it, you can not make an educated comment. That's all, just try it. The tool kit is about $150.00 but the book and DVD are available on Amazon for $29.99 and I have since published a Kindle version for much less. https://www.createspace.com/4038498

Also, its just what I said above, you can't really know until you try it. If you want to read what those technicians have said who have tried this, read it here..... They tell the true story.

http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials
Posted by: studio43

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 05:23 PM

Ryan,

There is no scraping involved in our Rapid Voicer technique.

It is similar to voicing needles but different and woks well when applied to the strike point.

Here, I show it up close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxw4t_ClpCY&feature=share&list=UUr6Y5-1vlbLl4sOa91JpVDQ

or you can see more at the actual web site under videos http://www.pianotunertools.com
Posted by: studio43

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 05:26 PM

Ryan,

You are correct, this is a dental type tool but is a professional grade... In development I tried that cheap stuff from Harbor and it is not sharp enough or strong enough.

The Rapid Voicer is Dr. Grade, will not dull, can't be cut through with a saw type stuff. It is sharper than a needle and it is a must to do the technique.

I can bend and cut that Harbor Freight stuff in a few seconds....

Also, my mentor made some specific additions to the tool to make it work for this application and it is all explained in our web site and tutorials. Hope this helps.

http://www.pianotunertools.com
Posted by: kpembrook

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 06:12 PM

Originally Posted By: studio43
David, This is that guy in the video this thread is about....

This method is not scraping in the grooves or a pre voicing, it is actually using a high quality tool to needle into the hammers. it is much like a glovers needle. It can not be performed the same as with traditional needles as well as with this tool that my mentor found and developed.

He has been using it for 30 years and has probable voiced tens of thousands of pianos. Far more than any average technician. If you don't try it or use it, you can not make an educated comment. That's all, just try it. The tool kit is about $150.00 but the book and DVD are available on Amazon for $29.99 and I have since published a Kindle version for much less. https://www.createspace.com/4038498

Also, its just what I said above, you can't really know until you try it. If you want to read what those technicians have said who have tried this, read it here..... They tell the true story.

http://www.pianotunertools.com/pages/testimonials


I have no doubt that it has an effect which in many cases may be beneficial. However, it is not the only way to get to to the needed 'zone of effectiveness' . Going through the side of the hammer gets to the same zone for all three strings in one stroke. The procedure advocated as "Angel Shot Voicing" also effectively targets the same zone of effectiveness.

Side-needle and Angel Shot are two ways to make the same thing happen that are quick, easy and effective.

Additionally, there are other zones of effectiveness. Poking around in the 11:00 to 1:00 zone will not increase sustain the way it may in the 3:00 and 9:00 zones, for example.

I'm enough of an experimenter that I might get the tool to try. However, it is unfortunate that we still have procedures being sold in piano technology with the "black box" or hocus-pocus approach that doesn't really disclose the operation or compare one procedure to another. I would rather see someone telling about the tool who has experience effectively voicing pianos using a variety of techniques.




Posted by: bkw58

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: kpembrook

I'm enough of an experimenter that I might get the tool to try. However, it is unfortunate that we still have procedures being sold in piano technology with the "black box" or hocus-pocus approach that doesn't really disclose the operation or compare one procedure to another. I would rather see someone telling about the tool who has experience effectively voicing pianos using a variety of techniques.



My sentiment exactly. This could be the greatest thing since sliced bread. There's not enough information supplied to make a responsible decision one way or the other. Some may wish to take a leap of faith and cut the check. A good demo that actually shows a tech voicing a tuned piano with the tool is what's really needed.
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 08:48 PM

There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?
Posted by: David, Las Vegas

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/30/13 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?



Yes, Whatever happened to the granite bridge? As I recall there was some bonafide experimentation with much improved sustain, clarity, decay etc. I thought it to be a great idea but implementation would be difficult to say the least.
Posted by: bkw58

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 10/31/13 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
There is always the granite bridge top to consider.

Remember that one?


Hmmm. Don't recall that one. confused
Posted by: rysowers

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 11/01/13 01:21 AM

Originally Posted By: studio43
Ryan,

You are correct, this is a dental type tool but is a professional grade... In development I tried that cheap stuff from Harbor and it is not sharp enough or strong enough.

The Rapid Voicer is Dr. Grade, will not dull, can't be cut through with a saw type stuff. It is sharper than a needle and it is a must to do the technique.

I can bend and cut that Harbor Freight stuff in a few seconds....

Also, my mentor made some specific additions to the tool to make it work for this application and it is all explained in our web site and tutorials. Hope this helps.

http://www.pianotunertools.com




Eric,

Thank you for the response! It sounds like the tool is more substantial than it first appeared.

That being said I'm still very suspicious of any quick fixes or "magic" elixirs when it comes to voicing. However, if your clients are satisfied with the results, then you have the most important endorsement.
Posted by: rysowers

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 11/01/13 01:39 AM

From rapid voice website: "The Rapid Voicer System will revolutionize the way you approach voicing. This amazing new system makes service voicing attainable for all technicians. It is the only voicing method ever developed which contains precise and controlled elements for voicing a piano up or down quickly."

If the system is so revolutionary and amazing, why is the only testimonial on your website by someone named Harris Georgallis who doesn't even claim to be a technician.

Eric: If you want seasoned technicians to take your products seriously you need to get some endorsements from some tools to respected names in the business: someone like Don Mannino of Kawai, or Richard Davenport, or Steve Brady etc. You might even consider bringing the tools to a PTG convention.

Maybe it's the way in which the products are marketed that seemed a little "snake oil salesman" like. But I'll try to keep an open mind.
Posted by: RoyP

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 11/03/13 09:38 AM

Ryan, I think you are spot on regarding his advertising. I looked at this thread, and noticed that Eric is in my area. I was curious, as he's someone I've never heard of. So, I went to his website. He prominently advertises that he does the tuning at Wright State University on the front page. Imagine my surprise, since I've been doing the work there for the last 5 years or so. If he is trying to build credibility with technicians, it's lost on me grin
Posted by: William Steward

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 11/04/13 07:14 AM

It would nice to hear a comment from someone who has experience with this tool. Except for Isaac's observations, these comments mostly focus on the quality of ad and credentials which seem beside the point. As a leap of faith I bought the carbon fiber hammer from Eric and like it it a lot - based on that experience his credibility is high with me. I agree that it is a lot to spend on a tool but if it lasts a lifetime, surely worth it.
Posted by: UnrightTooner

Re: Rapidvoicer.com? - 11/04/13 08:08 AM

I am trying to figure out how something that looks like a hawk's talon can be shoved 7/16 inch deep into a hammer. And if you did, how a piece of plastic tubing would prevent it from going too far.