AcrilyKey II

Posted by: accordeur

AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 08:06 PM

For too long now, I have been replacing Ivory keytops with other recuperated sets.

For too long I have been frustrated at never finding the right match, even though I have hundreds to choose from.

I often prefer just replacing the whole set, instead of trying to match even six of them. It seems whatever I do, they always stand out, even though the customer is happy.

Seeing pictures of these one piece Ivories sent graciously by Dan to me, I wonder how I could even possibly match those.

So, has any of you used the AcrilyKey system, and if so was it successful, and preferable?

Thanks all
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 08:33 PM

I use AcryliKey with great results.
Clients are also very happy when I'm done.
I only change fronts if the chips are not repairable.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
I use AcryliKey with great results.
Clients are also very happy when I'm done.
I only change fronts if the chips are not repairable.


Thanks Rod, I am looking forward to trying it out.

Any tips would be appreciated.
Posted by: David, Las Vegas

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 11:19 PM

I recently tried the AcryliKey product. I repaired ivory chips on my Steinway with results better than I had expected. The small kit has pure white color as well as a slightly yellowed powder. Personally I always whiten my ivory keyboards. The AcryliKey has an almost invisible finish if done properly. The first time I did it I repeated the repair a few times but I eventually got the process down. You only mix enough to do one or two at a time, It sands nicely with emery files in different abrasions for coarse to fine to a pre-polish finish. I have done several field repairs since with customers very pleased with the results.

I have tried applying wafers but getting thickness' to match is difficult and time consuming. Some pianos have way to many chip and splits so I would recommend new keytops. It's a good product and is compact enough to keep in your tool case. I'd say give it a try!
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: David, Las Vegas
I recently tried the AcryliKey product. I repaired ivory chips on my Steinway with results better than I had expected. The small kit has pure white color as well as a slightly yellowed powder. Personally I always whiten my ivory keyboards. The AcryliKey has an almost invisible finish if done properly. The first time I did it I repeated the repair a few times but I eventually got the process down. You only mix enough to do one or two at a time, It sands nicely with emery files in different abrasions for coarse to fine to a pre-polish finish. I have done several field repairs since with customers very pleased with the results.

I have tried applying wafers but getting thickness' to match is difficult and time consuming. Some pianos have way to many chip and splits so I would recommend new keytops. It's a good product and is compact enough to keep in your tool case. I'd say give it a try!


Thanks very much.

I will try to take pictures of my first try.
Posted by: kpembrook

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/18/12 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
I use AcryliKey with great results.
Clients are also very happy when I'm done.
I only change fronts if the chips are not repairable.


Same here.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 12:04 AM

I like it also. I have some jewelers files that work when finishing under the lip....
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 12:17 AM

Thanks very much, I thought this would be another gimmick.

I have tried every kind of combination of epoxy, ca glue, with powdered ivory that I sanded myself, to flour and sugar and every other substance that I could think of. Only to be disappointed. For years...

Then, out of despair and resignation, I would find the best match that I could, and glue it on with every possible clamps and glues that I could think of, only to be disappointed by the result. And believe me I am a key man, I just love them. And I am good at it, judging by my customers.

It's just not good enough for ME.

I feel bad thinking a few keys are from a different nice elephant, who probably died because of his tusks. I just don't want to separate them. If this acrylikey stuff works and can help me to save ivory sets, it will be a tribute to them.

I am looking forward (and due) to trying a new procedure.
Posted by: Emmery

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 01:38 AM

Some techs are also using UV light curing surfboard repair epoxy for key chips. I tried it a few years back but wasn't entirely pleased with the results. Always ended up whiter than the ivory, even when I mixed in tint.
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 02:00 AM

I tried UV curing products. I like the acrylic that the kit contains.
My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak

My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.


I hope it matches the outfit you wear to work.
Posted by: Rod Verhnjak

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/19/12 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak

My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.


I hope it matches the outfit you wear to work.



grin
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 07:00 PM

Received my order today and tried it on a spare Ivory. Very nice results!

Thanks everyone.
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
... I like the acrylic that the kit contains.
My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.

That's what I've been using for a couple of years now.

It's less expensive and seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists.

ddf
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: accordeur
Received my order today and tried it on a spare Ivory. Very nice results!

Thanks everyone.


photos please
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 07:22 PM

I won't be back in the shop until next week Dan, but I will take photos.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
... I like the acrylic that the kit contains.
My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.

That's what I've been using for a couple of years now.

It's less expensive and seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists.

ddf


Thanks Del,

You mean that the fingernail acrilyc works just as well?

Do you still order the powder or is there an alternative as well?

The kit is 64$ plus 35$ shipping to Canada. I don't mind the 64$ but the shipping is way high, and that is with USPS.
Posted by: beethoven986

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: accordeur
The kit is 64$ plus 35$ shipping to Canada. I don't mind the 64$ but the shipping is way high, and that is with USPS.


Whenever I order stuff from the supply houses, I always order multiple items to make shipping more economical. Depending on how close you are to the boarder, perhaps you can find a parcel service just south of the boarder to have your items shipped to.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 10:40 PM

I rarely order stuff outside of Canada. And I have plenty of stock left over from when I had your idea.

Buying more stuff to save on shipping when you don't need it is not economical.

But I understand where you are coming from.

Regardless, even at almost 100$ for the kit, I am satisfied with the product and am confident that, after giving it one try, I will get excellent results.

Maybe I was greedy or cheap by asking if cheaper alternatives could be purchased.

I will post pictures and comments on the results.
Posted by: beethoven986

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 10:44 PM

Originally Posted By: accordeur

Buying more stuff to save on shipping when you don't need it is not economical. But I understand where you are coming from.


True. My situation is probably quite different because I'm still assembling my personal tool collection.


Originally Posted By: accordeur
Maybe I was greedy or cheap by asking if cheaper alternatives could be purchased.


I don't think so. It's smart to pay less if you can.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/28/12 11:57 PM

I sometimes order parts because I cannot be bothered to go and find the ones I know are somewhere.

Guess I am due for a cleanup. And better organizational skills!

Then I refuse to throw stuff away. Many times old parts recycled have saved my butt.

It's a dilemma when you get lots of parts.

Flanges, wippens, let-off rails, hammer rails, fallboards, pedals, pedal springs etc....

Old hammer sets, in case I should need to replace one of them someday. Yeah right!

Ivories, two full big drawers of them, taped together by sets etc... thousands.

You need room for that stuff, and after a while, it takes a lot of room.

Tools? Well that's another story, but the basic principle applies.

I guess my New Years resolution will be to clean-up and make choices.
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/29/12 01:11 AM

Originally Posted By: accordeur
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
... I like the acrylic that the kit contains.
My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.

That's what I've been using for a couple of years now.

It's less expensive and seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists.

ddf


Thanks Del,

You mean that the fingernail acrilyc works just as well?

Do you still order the powder or is there an alternative as well?

The kit is 64$ plus 35$ shipping to Canada. I don't mind the 64$ but the shipping is way high, and that is with USPS.

Seems to. I think I heard about this first from Ryan Sowers and, when I needed something in a hurry, I went to a local beauty shop supply store and picked up a couple of different appropriate-looking colors of powder along with the liquid that goes with the powder. Smells about the same which is to say they both smell equally bad. Use with plenty of ventilation.

I've had some repaired keys out there for several years that are doing just fine.

It's a lot easier and, I think, better than trying to match original ivory heads.

ddf
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/29/12 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: accordeur
Originally Posted By: Del
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
... I like the acrylic that the kit contains.
My wife says it the same stuff she uses for finger nails.
She purchased some today so I'm going to try it.

That's what I've been using for a couple of years now.

It's less expensive and seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists.

ddf


Thanks Del,

You mean that the fingernail acrilyc works just as well?

Do you still order the powder or is there an alternative as well?

The kit is 64$ plus 35$ shipping to Canada. I don't mind the 64$ but the shipping is way high, and that is with USPS.

Seems to. I think I heard about this first from Ryan Sowers and, when I needed something in a hurry, I went to a local beauty shop supply store and picked up a couple of different appropriate-looking colors of powder along with the liquid that goes with the powder. Smells about the same which is to say they both smell equally bad. Use with plenty of ventilation.

I've had some repaired keys out there for several years that are doing just fine.

It's a lot easier and, I think, better than trying to match original ivory heads.

ddf


Thanks very much!!!

I am so tired of trying to match them, and reticent to separate them.

My daughter used to sell Mary Kay products. And I can see how the cosmetics industry, given the profits involved, would have come up with a product.

I believe I can now find what I am looking for.

Thanks again Del!!!!!

PS and thanks to Ryan Sowers as well!
Posted by: Phil D

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/29/12 02:17 PM

I have a couple of questions, this is an interesting thread!
Is this kit for repairing cracks or filling in chips? How would one apply if you were to use fingernail acrylic?
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/29/12 02:18 PM



I believe it is chip fill and done in the same way that false nails are filled in at the cuticle as they grow.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/29/12 02:58 PM

I have not used it for cracks but I believe it would work.
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/30/12 11:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Phil D
I have a couple of questions, this is an interesting thread!
Is this kit for repairing cracks or filling in chips? How would one apply if you were to use fingernail acrylic?

We're not talking about "fingernail acrylic" as in the stuff women paint on their fingernails to make them colorful.

This is the powder/liquid stuff used to build up and/or create "artificial nails" and to make repairs to broken or damaged fingernails. Your beauty shop supply people will know the difference.

ddf
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/30/12 11:58 AM

Originally Posted By: accordeur
I have not used it for cracks but I believe it would work.

It does but you generally have to open up the crack a bit. Rather like opening up a soundboard crack to work the shims in. But in miniature. You have to be able to get the material down in there.

ddf
Posted by: Minnesota Marty

Re: AcrilyKey II - 12/30/12 12:22 PM

Please forgive me, but this thread has caused some delightfut chuckles from the way it has turned.

It's time for a new forum called the Tuner-Technician-Fingernail Salon.
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/10/13 02:00 PM

I have find the white powder and monomer (not expensive)

They are very easy to use, but the final colour is slightly translucide.

Do some tried to mix with some white powder (as titanium white) ?

The mix is so strong and hard once set (very fast) I suppose it can accept a little neutral power and/or a trace of yellow acrylic colour.

The smell is awful !
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/10/13 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Kamin
I have find the white powder and monomer (not expensive)

They are very easy to use, but the final colour is slightly translucide.

Do some tried to mix with some white powder (as titanium white) ?

The mix is so strong and hard once set (very fast) I suppose it can accept a little neutral power and/or a trace of yellow acrylic colour.

The smell is awful !

If you are getting the stuff from a source that sells to "beauty shops" you are probably getting the translucent stuff intended to emulate human fingernails. Go back and ask them for the opaque variety.

In the U.S., at least, both types are available. As are powders of slightly different colors.

ddf
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/10/13 02:43 PM

Thanks Del, I thought it was white because of the poweder , indeed it emulate natural fingernails.

I asked if yellow was available, and get a smile ! may be to emulate heavy smokers fingernails wink

Anyway a very interesting product, I used it to reinforce the plate of a speaker (where the wiring is, it was broken)

The guy told me to use the product little by little, no mix just pour the brush in the monomer then in the powder, it is almost immediate...
Posted by: Jeff Clef

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/11/13 10:19 PM

"...seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists..."

I was just thinking that very thing--- that is, "Ask a dentist." They use all kinds of interesting and durable materials, which would certainly stand up as keytops, if they can stand up to living in a mouth. And, they do pretty close color-matching.

Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.
Posted by: ando

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/11/13 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...seems to work as well as the stuff used by dentists..."

I was just thinking that very thing--- that is, "Ask a dentist." They use all kinds of interesting and durable materials, which would certainly stand up as keytops, if they can stand up to living in a mouth. And, they do pretty close color-matching.

Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.


Yeah, but have you seen how much a dentist charges?!

(And what if one of your keys needs a root canal...)
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/18/13 09:32 PM

I used it today. I wanted to make a short video on the procedure, but was time constrained. So here is the final result, recorded with my iPhone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piOrzv5TFMM&feature=youtu.be

The key on the right, had the right corner chipped. The key on the left had a typical half moon chip in the middle.

I am very happy with the result.

I did experiment on quite a few spares. Seems to me that the recipe in the literature provided does not ask for enough powder.

I used the pure white at first, given the excellent state of the ivories, and ended up with a darker shade. The reason was that is was still translucent. By adding more powder, the acrylic becomes more opaque, but dries a lot faster. It turns into a paste as you apply it, which, now that I have worked with it. is actually nice. You can even reapply more and it sticks.

So, all in all, I will be visiting my local fingernail specialist soon.
Posted by: Jerry Groot RPT

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/18/13 10:42 PM

Very nice job Jean. I couldn't see it!
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/18/13 10:54 PM

Thanks Jerry,

It's very difficult to properly photograph or film. The video is not very good.

If you look at the reflections, the repairs can be seen. Then again it might be because I know where they are.

But it sure beats trying to match a new head. And the stuff sands and buffs just like ivory. The challenge is the mix of powder and acrylic and proper preparation.

Who knows, if the piano business goes as some pessimists say, I can always go into the fingernail business.!!!
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 02:38 AM

The product I find does not need to be mixed, the brush is dipped in monomer, and a small quantity of powder grips on it, not mixed but begin to melt,

When you apply it with the brush, more monomer is added from the brush and the product have the perfect consistency. They use cat tongue shaped brush so the monomer is in the brush as in a bottle.

I was explained to make small touches , not one big. Little powder.

I used a covering white acryl an monomer for nails . Thanks Del for the opaque info, the natural quality is not adequate

It can be used to repar usual acryl glass keys too, I suppose.

Used some masking tape to avoid too much thickness on the top if the key, but it fies not make a clean surface. A brushing with almost only monimer smooth the surface if wanted .

I will go to fingernails institute to see how they use it and also how thwy work with the Dremel. They polish with grit 1000 - 4000 but the acryl is covered with Uv drying products, may be harder.

Excellent tip, the nail trade have also excellent hammer files 100-180, white and large.
Posted by: Del

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 02:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
[i]Some guys might not want to be seen going into a beauty parlor, anyway. But a dentist's office is ok.

You don't go into a "beauty parlor" to get this stuff, you go into the store that sells supplies to beauty parlors.

Men, even "manly" men, are allowed. Just bring money.

ddf
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 11:30 AM

But you can go to a beauty parlor to ask for addresses (and telephone number) ...
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 03:51 PM


Nice job Jean. I will have to order some of that product and try it out. The video is good for showing the repair. The only thing missed was turning the key over to see the underside of the repair, the overhang of the ivory.

Next video….
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 04:10 PM

Here you go Dan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWJ7fVvU9z4
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 05:49 PM


Good one Jean, looks nice both sides.

I will order some of the materials. Speeding up the drying/curing process by adding more powder makes sense as a certain percentage of the drying process will happen by absorption.( into the powder.)
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/19/13 05:54 PM

for the nail product, it dry fast and harden totally alittle later.
For that one I was said to use little powder.

After a few tests you know how much powder is necessary with the brush you use.

I just made about ten chipped ivories . once poilished it is neat.
But I only have white, (I will try some yellow tint if necessary)
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/20/13 04:04 AM

Isaac,

Post videos, Ideally with the products you used, their names and composition.

Maybe even your procedure.

I am now sold on the fact that we can repair old sets of ivory.

Much easier than trying to match. And a kind of apology to the animals that died for it. If their tusks can live for decades, I feel good giving them another few.

Jean
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/20/13 04:43 AM

The stuff dries fast, and stinks. What is really nice is that you can work it as it hardens.

So if it's a big chip, when it's fresh, 30 seconds or so, it runs. Too liquid.

After a minute to a minute and a half, it starts to gel. Now you can actually shape it. The kit comes with wooden type tooth picks, one end flat and the other rounded, they work all right.

Preparation is key. Gutters and flow patterns etc... Small plastic spatula type tools work better.

Timing is everything, this stuff dries FAST.

At five minutes you are already too late.

So, preparation is crucial.
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/20/13 10:42 AM

Jean, we certainly use similar products. I made pics but it does not show the process.

I could make a video for the last ivory I have to do. The backing tope of double face tape can help to mold. I did not shape the paste much, only file later, (it is shaped a little while pouring it, with the brush) you gain time with the spatula Iwas afraid that the product did not hold well.

I wanted to see how they do in the nail trade , so to be sure to understand how they mix the powder, quantities.
Taking the powder directly in a cup, with the brush dipped in the liquid (in a small glass jar) is efficient to regulate the amount of liquid.
If the brush is dipped too frankly, too much powder adhere on it, but it you only take a little, you may put it without too much pressure on the brush.

On the akrylikey instructions, do they say make the mix on a glass plate ? I frankly find the mix easy to do, I am just unsure of the quantity to have the stronger bond. I also did not find any yellowish or cream looking powder, so I will make tests with yellow stain if necessary (concentrated stains for laquer and polyester) difficult to find the good color probably.

That is the kind of powder , it comes from Germany. I find the monomer in a beauty shop, and baught small jars and glass jar on the net, same supplier. All those products must be cheap, I have seen prices from 1 to 4 so some web sites may be exagerating.

Their burnishers may be worth a try (sanding block 1000-4000)
Posted by: phacke

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/24/13 01:27 AM

Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing the information.
Posted by: Olek

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/24/13 02:46 AM

About molding, it is done with a brush, in the nail trade.

A good solution (the adapted brush contsins quite some monomer)
Because it soften the paste better than a wooden spatula. The paste hardens very fast

They use an agent for better adhesion. Possibly only a cleaner with isopropyl.

This is worth to be tested if the adhesion is better. I just use pure isopropyl.
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 06:40 PM


Hey Jean,

I wanted to thank you once again for starting this thread and the videos of this kind of repair.

I ordered some of this stuff after you showed me the video in this thread which was a year ago. I finally had time this week to mess around a bit and I like the results.

A tip about usage for yourself and everyone who tries this product;

At times when ivory gets thin along the leading edge (overhang) of the head, the ivory itself can appear opaque while the overhang appears more grey in colour, because there is nothing backing it from underneath.

I found today that while the mixture is still runny, a very thin coat can be painted on the underside of the overhang so that it appears opaque too. I used the runny mixture in the channel cut underneath the ivory head to do that part. This way the chip fill disappears completely.

Another way to do that;

When using the ivory glue wafers the excess wafer has to be cut away prior to heating the clamps and setting the ivory. I have been saving up a small tin cup of the cut away pieces of glue wafer, melted them in the glue pot with a bit of water and the glue that comes off gives the same result if painted on the underside of the overhang.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 06:45 PM

Thanks Dan!! I will give that a try next time. Did you take before and after photos?
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 06:59 PM

And by the way, this thread is, to me at least, what this forum is all about. DIYers can easily search for them and there are no egos involved.
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 07:35 PM

Hi Jean,

I didnít think to take any before/after photos, as I am real busy at the moment. I have more to do next week and will take some and post them.

Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 07:35 PM

Thanks!
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 07:38 PM


Originally Posted By: accordeur
And by the way, this thread is, to me at least, what this forum is all about. DIYers can easily search for them and there are no egos involved.


This is a good point Jean, I agree completely. Bonne santť.
Enjoy the cold there,at least you have power.
Posted by: accordeur

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 07:42 PM

And a Happy New Year to you Dan!
Posted by: Silverwood Pianos

Re: AcrilyKey II - 01/08/14 08:03 PM



Thanks Jean. I hope you had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year with lots of family, and friends present to enjoy the Holiday Season with.
Best of luck for 2014.