The whining partial that I eliminate when I tune unisons. (I don't think I even hear the fundamental when I tune unisons, I just eliminate the whine which I was surprised to learn when i analised it, is only the second partial. I always hear it as much higher in the spectrum. I still do even tho I know it isn't.
Hello, that is interesting, I agree the whine is mostly coming from the second partial, but I am sure there is also something coming from the fundamental. In fact when the whine is suppressed at the partial level ( it can raise up to the 5th partial on some pianos, when listening closely to the partials and tuning you hear a real rainbow with one partial coming more in front then another - of course that depend of the iH level of the piano)
Interesting that you say you don't listen to the fundamental, doe sit mean that you "know" (because of a long habit) when the fundamental is good ?
I learned at some point to listen to the way the fundamental energize the partial spectra : more, or less.
It can be very well perceived in the basses, where a neat and clean partial spectra provokes sometime a large inflation of the thickness of the fundamental, that may sound as a beat, but obviously it is not one, as the partials are not beating, you agree with me ?
I learned to recognize the dynamic behavior of the coupling in regard of the fundamental, that mean (as a result) a tone that projects more or less that is also more or less strong, attack wise.
As this is somewhat mysterious, I finally relate it to a slight delay in coupling at the 2nd partial level, that change the crispness of the attack.
FOr some time I was so much listening to the fundamental behavior and the way the note "speaks" that I could leave some moaning in the partials without noticing (and the strongest full tone at the attack time)
Actually I take care of having that jump from the fundamental energy immediately in a clean 2nd partial, then I focus on the high partials beginning with the second one.
High partials are often confused with mating and voicing problems , but the global energy sensation tell us if we are on the good track or no.
It is possible to tune "only the fundamental" for the stronger and no beating tone, and then there is a slow moaning coming from the partials. Some pianos may even benefit of that (pianos with limited spectra for instance) , but the dynamic range is reduced ,too much energy is used for the fundamental , seem to me.
IUt makes a sort of "vulgar" tone, closed and non expressive (but the whine is not to be considered as a "beat" if we follow the usual terminology, it is a very slow beat due to the iH or discrepancies between partials.
So it sound evident to me that to build tone, the tuner have to listen to the partials (even in the top regions) and manage them so their energy flow is gentle, quiet and calm.
AT some point that flow create the most expressive and the most manageable tone, it is very easily noticed because the piano is providing a large dynamic plague, beginning with a neat and crisp attack.
I consider recognizing the attack quality for a given piano allows to gain some time in unison tuning. unfortunately some delay is necessary for the moved elements to settle back, be it the tuning pin or the wire.
So we are obliged to spend some time on each note or to make a second picky pass.
Tuning a violent attack is possible, as tuning a delayed one (you feel the tone builds a little late in the key ,as opposed to an immediate feeling of power, which is possible without real moaning)
I find the differences between unison tuner's tone there, even if generally the attack is not worked precisely so many have a similar tone where the attack is the automatic result of the partial's tuning, hence a similar tone for most tuners.
At some point the tuner is more at ease concentrating on the pin's behavior and does not have to analyse so precisely what he is doing, hopefully.
Our ears tend to get tired, and age, however, A friend I have is producing turnings that are more brilliant today than they where. I probably begin to hear less well the last upper notes partials.
About unison shape, I wonder if I do tune 2 strings focused on fundamental, and the 3d focused on 2nd partial. That is probably the case, and the 2nd partial is higher than fundamental, hence a different coupling, but a tone reinforcement between the strings at that point.
That is what is called "largeness of tone" or "opening " of the unison. (and why it is easier to obtain a thicker body on a STeinway than on a Fazioli)
That "quadratic effect" (I hardly find more info on this) that was stated lately is also may be explaining why when tuning playing extra strong one can access to very different unison, that allow the tone at FFF to be really neat. Very probably the justness can change also.
Top treble may be coupling with a maximum notes below in the scale, that is why extra stretch only on the last notes is not so excellent. The tone reinforce naturally usually.
I often perceive too high notes in the treble as being too low, while I did not find a correct explanation for that out of the iH of the piano tending to push the envelope to more stretch as soon as a certain level is passed)