why do I hate jazz?

Posted by: Rostosky

why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 07:27 PM

My taste in music that I love spans many decades and many genres.. I bet some folk would be stunned at some of the music I love..
However, when it comes to jazz, I balk, grow cold and want to have that same injection that my dog had for his very "final" injection.
My brain just seems to reject music that has, what seems to me to be no melody.
I am led to understand it's all very refined and clever, and has great technical merit.
But I still cannot fathom the point in that when you cannot leave humming a tune.
I suppose I am just an old romantic for melodic content.
Or is there a problem with my brain?
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 07:32 PM

Maybe you have a preference for a certain style or era of jazz and not so much for another style or era. It has evolved over the years since Ragtime and Blues, so it has a wide variety of contributors to its evolution, which as well, contributes to its very broad definition. Variety does have a certain spice to it. I find that appealing.

Glen
Posted by: knotty

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 07:36 PM

It seems to me like you've answered your own question.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 07:38 PM

Glen, are songs like "midnight in moscow" and "tiger rag" jazz? because I do like them.. Thing is I can hum them straight off now if asked... It's the stuff that seems to be like everyone speaking at once without saying anything!
I am fully prepared to except its a problem with my brain, because loads of very musical and sensible folk do like jazz.
I must be missing something, I just dont get it. doh.
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 07:44 PM

The two tunes you mentioned are examples of what would be considered older forms of jazz with a heavier blues influence. Perhaps you like some of the old standards (songs, show tunes) where the melodies are defined and as well the lyrics. Bebop and cooler forms of jazz evolved from that and became more abstract for some folks, but not for others. You have lots of choices to find something you like or not.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:04 PM

Ahh I think you may have just hit the nail on the head with one word there "abstract"
I am really trying to understand my shortcomings in this genre.
Oh no, just had second thoughts on the abstract part..
some folk thought The velvet underground were abstract and Tangerine dream., yet I didn't and don't.
This is hard, can it be that my brain has a short and hears modern jazz as too abstract a concept?
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:06 PM

You don't like jazz? Here, try this on...

Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:10 PM

There is nothing wrong with your brain, you just don't like that kind if jazz. It's a personal taste thing. I like it but there's no reason for everyone to like it. Don't try to analyze it why you don't, you just don't.

I can't stand Bach or Mozart, they bore me and I can't listen to them long. I get ridiculed for that by people who think everyone has to like the same things they do. Absurd!

Nope, you're just fine, there's LOTS of music to listen to. Just listen to what you like.

It's all good.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:32 PM

Jazzyprof...
I listened to the Nat king cole, if thats "jazz" then it isn't the sort of jazz I meant...
When I fall in love had a nice melodic line, and the backing was restrained to a memorable rythmic plucking sort of sound, almost like a glen miller band on a valium day.. nice.
The sort of "jazz" I meant is the hectic -not - going - home humming - any - melody type...
Posted by: griffin2417

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:34 PM

Interesting conversation!!
Posted by: TrapperJohn

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
I am fully prepared to except its a problem with my brain, because loads of very musical and sensible folk do like jazz.
I must be missing something, I just dont get it. doh.


Oh, but I somehow suspect that you do get it...and you're just trying to "pull our chains" to get a lively and perhaps heated discussion going just to break the all-pervasive boredom that some are claiming has settled in like a wet blanket over the Forums lately...Nah, you wouldn't do that...or would you?

But on the small chance that you're serious then you can be cured of your affliction by listening to the works of the contemorary (or smooth) jazz group Fourplay - especially when they play their signature piece "Foreplay" laugh

Trap
Posted by: TrapperJohn

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
I can't stand Bach or Mozart, they bore me and I can't listen to them long.


Bach I can almost understand - but the only people who say they don't like Mozart are those who have never heard Mozart...

Trap
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 08:55 PM

Rostosky - I know EXACTLY what you mean. I love and enjoy listening to a very wide variety of music - from Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt and Chopin to Scott Joplin to Muddy Waters to Metallica and Slipknot and Spineshank. I can appreciate the beauty in an even larger body of music (like country and bluegrass and modern pop) even if I don't particularly enjoy listening to it.

But modern jazz.....I just don't get it. The abstract, dischordant, spontaneous stuff that follows no perceivable pattern. The stuff that is played live in bars full of silent Frenchmen smoking long cigarettes and wearing scarfs in the summer and sunglasses at night. The stuff that sounds like each band member is just tooting out a note once in a while to make his presence known. That stuff.

I'm with ya, bro. I don't get it either.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:03 PM

TrapperJohn....
I am being deadly serious, and am not pulling chains..absolutely not..... I am not bored either...
Look here is a link to the sort of jazz i mean, I just went to Youtube and found it, It has nothing to do with the group of musicians who are playing it...it could be anybody (and often is)
This is the sort of thing that I hear in supermarket isles and on films when there is 1970's cocktail party .
I am just trying to get an angle on what must be happening in my mind when i accidentally hear it...
for example, if you gave me a free ticket to a concert that featured this sort of music, I would happily pay £25.00 for someone to take the ticket off me.
Thats how much it actually "jars" in my brain.
The experimental music of tangerine dream and pink floyd as well as the velvet underground never had that effect upon me.
I have never heard Eric Saties vexations in their full "repeat 800 times" entirety, but I would rather than this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:09 PM

Once upon a time I thought I didn't like jazz. But then someone gave me Bill Evans' Waltz for Debbie, and Miles Davis Kind of Blue.

There's all kinds of jazz, just like there's all kinds of "classical". Some of it I like, some of it I don't. I don't, for instance, gasp, "get" Coltrane. Yikes! But the 4-year-old daughter of a poster on another forum I'm in, when asked what she wanted to hear as background music for breakfast, tossed her hair and said, "how about a little Coltrane." We're all different, I guess laugh

Cathy
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:10 PM

The statements you make about jazz applies to any genre of music that's been around for awhile. Some Rock and Roll over its lifespan is pretty lousy, some is great. Same with Metal, same with, Blues, same with Country, same with "classical", etc.

You are not required to understand or even like every form of jazz, classical, rock, blues, country, blue grass. They all have their ups and downs over their lifespan.

Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion and if you are open to learning about more abstract forms, how it is constructed, etc, then you would have a more informed opinion. It matters not, really - whatever you like is fine and what you don't like you can, <<Click --->Next

Maybe you meant to say you "hate some specific aspects/genres of jazz". Hate all of it? I think you don't.

Glen
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Thats how much it actually "jars" in my brain.
The experimental music of tangerine dream and pink floyd as well as the velvet underground never had that effect upon me.
I have never heard Eric Saties vexations in their full "repeat 800 times" entirety, but I would rather than this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs



<snort> Now see, I liked that laugh

Guess there's no accounting for taste, said the old lady as she kissed a cow. . .

Cathy
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:19 PM

gahdzila... YES, thats it, thats what I meant that stuff...
Like six people all talking at once, out loud different stories at different speeds .
My brain warns me if I dont get it out of earshot it WILL grow a tumour.
I was trying to understand why, like you my musical apreciation spans many genres, The only thing that bores me (apart from the "J" word)is if I am at someones house and they have "every record" that blah did, or blah band and nothing else.
If they have Liszt,siouxsie and the banshees,fairport convention,Lou read, beethoven, Be-bop-deluxe, Tchaikovsky, Amy whinehouse even... amongst many others, then I am interested,because they have a diverse love of music, and not a restricted one.
At least my brain is in a minority of two now! lol.

But I wish I understood whats missing in my brain that other folk have working in theirs.
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

But I wish I understood whats missing in my brain that other folk have working in theirs.



That sums it up. You're not alone with that one. Join the human race, as it were. wink
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:23 PM

Oh, and jazzprof, that Nat Kind Cole was the tops.

Cathy
Posted by: Scott Coletta

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Look here is a link to the sort of jazz i mean, I just went to Youtube and found it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs


Hmmm, this is pretty tame I'd say smile. I'm curious, do you find that they don't sound like they are together or does it seem to fit together but just sounds random to you? I'd like to try to help you figure out what it is and maybe even give some tips on how to hear it differently. Of course, no offense if you're just not interested. I will say that I once didn't get this kind of stuff either, but now I'm into things way more "out there" than the MJQ. I just knew there had to be something there that people liked and that's what I wanted to understand... long story short, I ended up with a masters in jazz piano laugh.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:37 PM

Glen, If I understood the more abstract form I would be better informed opinion wise??
Is that the same as If I had the recipe for my mums shepherd pie it would suddenly stop tasting like catfood?

I am totally informed about motorcycle accidents, having worked in a motorcycle shop..but I still dont like them.

I dont see how mentally disseminating what my brain finds unacceptably abstract ( as in the link example) will allow my ears to enjoy it.
I admit I didn't know Nat king cole and tiger rag , midnight in moscow was all classed as jazz. so indeed I do like somethings that come under the heading Jazz... its the stuff in the link's ilk I think is called modern jazz that I dont seem to be able to get on with. My mind wants a piece of music to have a melody, I need to find out why this is so.
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

I have never heard Eric Saties vexations in their full "repeat 800 times" entirety, but I would rather than this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs



To appreciate this kind of jazz you have to try to understand the structure. You had mentioned earlier that you hate jazz that doesn't have a melody. This one actually does have a melody. The tune is called "Django" and is a tribute to the great gypsy guitarist Django Reinhardt. The piece starts with a statement of the theme (also known as "the head"). This is played by the vibes, with some accompaniment by the others, between 0:44 and 1:24. See if you can identify and hum the melody.

After the statement of the "head" the vibist launches into an improvisation. It is not free improvisation but one that follows the harmonic structure of the piece. You can hear the pianist playing the chords that underlie the piece, along with some embellishments. After the vibist plays his solo the pianist takes his turn at improvisation. It's like a theme and variations.

At the end they restate the theme. Can you recognize the theme when it comes back?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:48 PM

Scott I am totally interested.....and confused, I feel confident that with help I could understand the non-melodic abstract stuff as to how its constructed... I just dont think I could like something without a melody. Yes it does sound random, worse, it sounds like if it was words it would be "speaking in tongues"
Lots of folk do love jazz, and I know they are far cleverer than I could be, so I know there must be something that gives enjoyment to so many people, My brain says people love it, my ears say " Q tips please"
Posted by: Scott Coletta

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 09:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Scott I am totally interested.....and confused, I feel confident that with help I could understand the non-melodic abstract stuff as to how its constructed... I just dont think I could like something without a melody. Yes it does sound random, worse, it sounds like if it was words it would be "speaking in tongues"
Lots of folk do love jazz, and I know they are far cleverer than I could be, so I know there must be something that gives enjoyment to so many people, My brain says people love it, my ears say " Q tips please"



Well, glad to hear that you would like to try! For now I'll just say that the melody is always "there" even during the so-called non-melodic parts. Also, what jazzyprof said about the head and chord changes is right. I'm checking out for tonight but I'll put something together with this tune that I think might help and post it tomorrow and we'll go from there.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 10:11 PM

Jazzyprof....
To answer your question about the theme.. I had to go and listen to it again... (thanks! lol) seriously, yes there was a melodic theme at the begining , but, then when the (procrastination my ears say) "improvisation" happened any theme just seemed to vanish and I had to listen to it all the way through untill the end when the short melodic theme came back ...
I did this because I have respect for Django and the difficulties he overcame as to physical problems what with the fire , but I only found that out on wickepedia a few moments ago.
At first I mixed him up with the great Paco Pena, whom I could listen to all day....Flamenco is melodic to my ears. .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG9ctrS0xQE
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 10:15 PM

Here's the sheet music. Django
Try playing the theme (head). You'll see what a lovely, haunting melody it is. Note the chord symbols written above the melody. During the solos the players follow the chord structure and may play melodic lines that outline the harmony...what some call "harmelody".

You will notice that in this particular piece, the "A" section is the theme. The "B" and "C" sections do not have a melody but are just a set of chord changes over which the players improvise. If you listen to the improvisation carefully you may be able to tell what the underlying harmony is. Try listening to the improvisation while following the chord changes ("B" and "C" sections) on the sheet music.
Posted by: FormerFF

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 10:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Look here is a link to the sort of jazz i mean, I just went to Youtube and found it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs


Hmmm, this is pretty tame I'd say smile. I'm curious, do you find that they don't sound like they are together or does it seem to fit together but just sounds random to you? I'd like to try to help you figure out what it is and maybe even give some tips on how to hear it differently. Of course, no offense if you're just not interested. I will say that I once didn't get this kind of stuff either, but now I'm into things way more "out there" than the MJQ. I just knew there had to be something there that people liked and that's what I wanted to understand... long story short, I ended up with a masters in jazz piano laugh.


I agree, I thought that MJQ piece was quite pleasant. There is some jazz i rather like, and there is some, say like Ornette Coleman, I just don't get.



To me, this sounds like noise.
Posted by: FormerFF

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 10:35 PM

If you need to get that Ornette Coleman piece out of your head, listen to this much more melodic music:



No need to watch, as it's just a static image, just listen.
Posted by: findingnemo2010

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 10:39 PM

classical>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by: steveMac

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 11:06 PM

I know exactly how Rostosky feels. All the voices talking at once is a good analogy. It certainly causes a very strange emotion unlike any other music i have experienced. I too have a wide interest in different types of music but modern jazz, though maybe not all of it, leaves me feeling like screaming. It is akin to having toothache. It really is bizarre.

It just seems to go on and on without ever resolving.
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 11:06 PM

Well, I like SOME jazz. I don't think that makes me more or less intelligent than some one who hates it, though. I do not like what I consider to be the more atonal and almost non musical forms of jazz. I do like MJQ. I really don't think they were "abstract" or atonal at all. Ornette Coleman and the like, though, I can really do without. That is what I would consider as abstract music. I am also not fond of Joe Sample and most other so-called "smooth jazz" artists. I find them overly repetitive and somewhat boring. Maybe there is something wrong with me?

Please discard the idea that there is something wrong with you, Rostosky. That certainly isn't the case. You, like me, just know what you like.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 11:12 PM

Its getting hard to try and answer everyone but here goes....Jazzyprof, (its 4 am in here in the UK!) I will check out the sheet music in the morafternoon tommorrow!
The chords are not very familier with me so I will need to do quite some work....but will try to see just why I find the whole thing distastefull soundwise.
I will get back to you tommorrow night after trying to disect it some. FormerFF that ornette is not so much "dancing in your head " If given the choice I would prefer a running two stroke chainsaw be surgically implanted in my head then hear that ever again.
"Noise" was a very fine attempt at definition Sir, but a whole new word needs to be invented for that particular sound, if God sent an angel to visitate upon me and the angel said "that is played in Hades 24/7"
(a.) I wouldn't be surprised
(b.) I would take a vow of celibacy and become a nun.

Scott , thanks look forward to it.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: FormerFF

I agree, I thought that MJQ piece was quite pleasant. There is some jazz i rather like, and there is some, say like Ornette Coleman, I just don't get.



To me, this sounds like noise.


This is the stuff that I just don't like. The one above was pleasant, but I personally found it boring. I didn't hate it though.

What I really really love though is jazz with other genres like blues and rock. I'm talking about things like Stevie Ray Vaughn's Rivera Paradise or Lenny or anything by the band Morphine. I wish there was more music like that.
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/08/11 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

The chords are not very familier with me so I will need to do quite some work....but will try to see just why I find the whole thing distastefull soundwise.

Don't worry about the chords then. Just play the bass note, i.e. if you see a chord symbol G7 for example, just play a low G. If you follow along with the solo this way while counting the rhythm you'll be able to make sense of the cacophony...um, improvisation.

Here's another cool version of Django: Grant Green
Posted by: kevinb

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 02:52 AM

Rostosky -- it seems to me that you're not really saying you don't like jazz, you're saying that you don't like the kind of jazz that you don't like. But isn't that true for everybody?

Anyhow, what does it matter what kind of music you like? It's not like there isn't a lifetime's supply of music in just about every genre.
Posted by: cruiser

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 04:26 AM

Rostosky, as others have posted, I also know exactly where you're coming from.

In recent months I've tried very hard to "learn" to appreciate the more "purist" kind of Jazz, for want of a better description. I've even spent quite a lot of money on several albums by Bill Evans, Ahmad Jamal, Thelonius Monk, Bud Powell etc. I even bought the de rigeur jazz Mile Davis album, "Kind of Blue". Most of what I've listened to does nothing for me at all, except bore me.

Jazz has so many sub-genres that I don't think one can generalise and say that they "hate jazz" per se. For example, one of my favourite recent discoverys is Keith Jarrett's "Köln Concert".

However, my time and money was not wasted. The process has been illuminating and has clarified for me the kind of music that really moves me, and that is mostly but by no means only, "classical".

Posted by: Cobra1365

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 08:28 AM

I'm OK with a lot of the Jazz music (some of it can be a bit chaotic to me). But, I feel like you do about Ragtime. It just doesn't do anything for me and I have no interest in playing it.
Posted by: griffin2417

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 08:43 AM

Originally Posted By: jotur
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Thats how much it actually "jars" in my brain.
The experimental music of tangerine dream and pink floyd as well as the velvet underground never had that effect upon me.
I have never heard Eric Saties vexations in their full "repeat 800 times" entirety, but I would rather than this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs



<snort> Now see, I liked that laugh

Guess there's no accounting for taste, said the old lady as she kissed a cow. . .

Cathy



I loved it! I just bought one of their albums (MJQ) a few months ago. I love jazz, but can't play it.
Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: TrapperJohn
Originally Posted By: Roger Ransom
I can't stand Bach or Mozart, they bore me and I can't listen to them long.


Bach I can almost understand - but the only people who say they don't like Mozart are those who have never heard Mozart...

Trap


I have listened to and played plenty of Mozart. Still bores me. I really don't think it's necessary to understand why, I just don't like it.

You obviously do like it and that's fine too.
Posted by: Legal Beagle

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 09:33 AM

Originally Posted By: kevinb
Rostosky -- it seems to me that you're not really saying you don't like jazz, you're saying that you don't like the kind of jazz that you don't like. But isn't that true for everybody?

Anyhow, what does it matter what kind of music you like? It's not like there isn't a lifetime's supply of music in just about every genre.


+1.

OP's statement that he doesn't like jazz because it doesn't provide a hummable tune is interesting to me. It put me in mind of a quote I saw on the quote-of-the-day page the other day:

"Classical music is the kind we keep thinking will turn into a tune."
Kin Hubbard (1868 - 1930)

Just goes to show... different strokes for different folks.
Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Glen, If I understood the more abstract form I would be better informed opinion wise??
Is that the same as If I had the recipe for my mums shepherd pie it would suddenly stop tasting like catfood?



That's the best analogy I've heard in quite some time. thumb
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Sparky McBiff
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Glen, If I understood the more abstract form I would be better informed opinion wise??
Is that the same as If I had the recipe for my mums shepherd pie it would suddenly stop tasting like catfood?



That's the best analogy I've heard in quite some time. thumb


Being informed about something often has little to do with whether it will be favored or not. If anything, it might work the other way around.

That analogy does not address my comment. I only offered forth an idea that might help the OP better understand his perspective. I really don't care if the OP embraces jazz or not. Some of it I don't care for either. It matters not.
Posted by: Jazz+

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 10:15 AM

How can this not put a smile on your face, can you really dislike something like this?

"Oh! Good Grief" by Vince Guaraldi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfo2rgq4u10
Posted by: Scott Coletta

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 10:54 AM

Ok, here goes! First off, I decided that Django isn't the best example for trying to do this mainly just because of it having sections where there is no composed melody, just improvisation over set chord changes. Best to save that for later.

So I chose Autumn Leaves which if you don't know it already, has a very beautiful melody. Here's a "non-jazz" version sung by Nat King Cole:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kP8jPa1wCg

Now we'll look at the same tune as played by Joe Henderson on tenor sax, Wynton Kelly on piano, Paul Chambers on bass, and Jimmy Cobb on drums. This was recorded live in 1968 and would be considered by most to be fairly mainstream, straight ahead jazz. It's an interesting example because the melody is never played outright. But nevertheless, the form is adhered to strictly. It starts with an 8 bar vamp on G minor and then goes right into the chord changes. What I've done here is record the melody over the entire tune. This way, hopefully, you can hear how the improvisation is always connected to the melody by the underlying harmonic sequence, which they have in common. It may still seem random at first, but if you listen long enough it should start to jump out at you. This tune is nice and long so you'll have plenty of time to listen. smile

http://www.box.net/shared/bs7yfdmu47

Also, here is the lead sheet, which notates the melody and basic chord changes. This is the framework for how a jazz musician thinks. Melodic and harmonic improvisation is then applied to this based on theoretical relationships. The goal is to create something spontaneous, that is connected to the original form by it's shared harmonic and melodic traits without deviating from the pulse set by the original melody and harmony. I would suggest reading along with this while you listen.

http://www.box.net/shared/qtxa9ubu5f

See what you think and let me know.
Posted by: Inlanding

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 11:08 AM

Well said, well done, Scott!
Posted by: chrisbell

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Ok, here goes! First off, I decided that Django isn't the best example for trying to do this mainly just because of it having sections where there is no composed melody, just improvisation over set chord changes. Best to save that for later. . . . . . .

Well written Scott!
+1
Posted by: ten left thumbs

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 02:01 PM

Scott, this is just the sort of explanation of jazz I needed a few years ago. I did work it out in the end. But it was awful difficult to get jazzers to make any kind of sense to me.

To the OP: some kinds of jazz make me nauseous, like car sickness.
Posted by: MaryBee

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 05:06 PM

Scott, that's great. I, too, am one of those people who don't understand jazz. What a nice introduction you provided! After listening to your version with the melody overlay, I wanted to hear it without. I found this one, which is not quite as long as yours. Do you have a link for another that might be good to listen to?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 06:34 PM

Scott, back now after a sleep.
I thought we were going with django? I should have said I had a chord book to refresh on unfamilier chords like Bbm6/f and Eb7b9 ... anyways I just got back from checking those chords and the goal posts moved to Nat King Cole again!... but not before you mentioned "sections where there is no composed melody" in django.
For me to keep up we have to stick to something...
and django was an example of the type of jazz I cannot abide.

But I went with you onto Autumn leaves....
I was intently listening to Nat singing, hoping that something would happen and it did , it happened at 1min 30 seconds in exactly, Nat stops singing , but more importantly the strings start to play, I listened to the strings and my brain shouted the words "oh wonderfull world, a passing dream, just flight of fancy"
I tried to ignore that but couldn't, and a quick replay of the string section had me routing through my albums like a lunatic....
Something was telling me I had heard a variation on the string theme with added call and answers from something about 35 years ago.
It turned out I had leant the album to a friend, so I phoned him, he emailed me the track in question, I created a youtube account and uploaded it which took ages... it's not jazz, but it seems to have a relation to the string "theme" in Nat king cole...
You have gone to a lot of trouble to explain things, so I went to a lot to show I was listening....
So it's ten mins long, but the Autumn leaves Jazz piece that you were kind enough to play the melodic line on was thirteen minits and I listened to all of that..more on that later.
If you would listen to my link just to let me know If there is a relation between the string theme in autumn leaves and the piece I have given a link to? I guess you will not like it as music, but this is just a theoretical question.
It was written by a band called the Enid, to express fear over nuclear anihilation that spoilt our teenage years in the seventies!

Anyways back to the second link you gave me....
I found myself trying (unsuccessfully ) to tune out the horrendous saxaphone, I just wanted it to stop, so I could only hear the piano and bass. I could do this,but the more I did it, the more the sax annoyed me.
For me this is a classic example of "if there is no melody written , playing what sounds like 'just anything' will not do." And for me the sax sounded like it was just playing "anything" not just like it should be in a different song altogether, but that it should be in a different town altogther.
I do not have problems with the sax per-se , in fact I reckon one of the best solos ever was done by saxophonist wesley magoogan, who tragically will never play again.

my link for autumn leaves string theme comparison......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26dB_5BATNI


And for Saxophonic bliss, this could repeat for ever, and I would never tire..........from "will you" Hazel o conner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMakuuEK30M
Posted by: Scott Coletta

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 08:11 PM

Rostosky... don't sweat it, we tried! Joe Henderson's playing is a bit intense there at times smile. Just in case you feel like trying a little more, here's a version of Autumn Leaves that's a little easier on the ears, especially when Miles plays. Just try to keep the melody in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPHtQn1t1n4

I listened to the track by the Enid. The melody when the lyric is "a passing dream" is the same as the opening fragment of the melody of Autumn Leaves. That's some good hearing on your part! Also, the sax playing from "Will You" is well done. That's improvised... while it's not in a jazz style, it's the same idea as far as playing something connected to an underlying harmonic sequence.

Also, to everyone else who's benefited from the Autumn Leaves recording and explanation... I'm glad I could help!
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 08:45 PM

Scott... I see a cunning plan here, hammer my ears into bleeding with Joe henderson, and then while I am stupified get me to listen to Miles Davis's version knowing that as it isn't "as bad" my brain will tell me that it may be good, using the principal that anything at all can't be as bad as Joe henderson! lol.. I agree,it is easier on the ears..

Thanks for saying good hearing on my part.
So if my ears are OK, its a cranial thing!
Music is so odd we all have ears, we all have brains that process the sound our ears give them yet we all feel differently about it. What a wonderfully complex study it is.
Making connections can be a bugbear sometimes, I cannot help doing it.
Another connection I seem to have made will probably get people angry.....but here goes...

Disregarding personal problems,the media,Hype, and jealousy..
can you here at all any echoes of the great Billy Holiday in Amy whinehouses vocal style?
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 09:09 PM

Scott - that was great! Thanks so much for taking the time do this - it made a huge difference! Well done.

Cathy
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/09/11 10:56 PM

Scott - that was EXTREMELY helpful! Thanks!

It still isn't really my thing, but at least now I can understand it a little more. THANKS!!!!!
Posted by: griffin2417

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 07:50 AM

Thanks EVERYONE for a great discussion! Here is yet another excellent example of the benefit of these forums.

Griffin
Posted by: cubop

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 11:03 AM

Rostosky. You mention Billie Holiday. If you listen to her, you are listening to some of the very best that have been done in jazz. On that level you have only Charlie Parker and Billie Holiday.
The Davis Cannonball version of Autumn Leaves gets better every time I hear it.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 11:57 AM

Sorry should have said I have only heard Billie Holidays most popular songs.. But these have a tune, a tune that you can come away singing or humming or whistling like say "summertime"
I admit I didn't realise that jazz had so many 'sub-divisions'within it as a genre, and I have learnt a lot off the folk here in that respect; many thanks to all.
So , In short the type of jazz I hate is the stuff that doesnt have a written melody line for more bars than there are grains of sand in the desert.Or so it sounds like to me. It just screams elevators, shopping isles, and 1970's films where they are trying to portray a 'trendy' party in a large hotel room,where the men wear green flared pants and when a downstairs neighbour comes up to see what all the 'noise' is about, some 'dude' with an afro haircut has a go at the neighbour with the usual words "hey why are you trying to spoil our vibe man"

These pictures jump into my mind whenever I hear that type of jazz it just sounds to me like much "chatter" were there are many conversations in a foreign language.

As to miss whinehouse, I just heard some nuances in her voice and vocal inflections that left me thinking I had heard similar before somewhere, what exactly made the connection to Billie holiday I cannot say.

Other music, classical included, conjures up quite different pictures in my mind and has diffeent affects upon my body, like goose bumps etc.
Jazz that has no discernable melody has a seriously negative affect on me.
Posted by: rocket88

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 12:07 PM

Jazz, like classical, is too broad a category to dismiss as one.

I like some Jazz, especially Blues-based Jazz, such as Jimmy Smith, Jimmy McGriff.

Smooth Jazz, however, cuts cross-grain with me, and makes me want to run in the opposite direction. I think I am pre-programmed to not like Major 7ths!

So does much of "Contemporary Christian" --- not the words, but the music.

ps...I have an acclaimed Jazz singer, Ms. Sybil Gage, performing one of my original compositions on my new CD. Google her if you like.

pm me for CD details.
Posted by: cubop

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 12:26 PM

Rostosky. I cannot think of any better approach to Jazz than listening to Billie Holiday. For the very good reason that you are already at the core and the very heart of Jazz. If you have not heard the tune, you will find "Mandy is two" on Youtube. Charlie Parker will be somewhat more difficult to approach.
Posted by: AnonymousInvention

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 03:13 PM

Different people like different music. Pretty much end of story. Doesn't matter if it's the most wonderfully technically composed and performed work. You like it or you don't. I played rock (1960s), then heard Stravinsky and went classical (1970s getting my degree), etc. and it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I became interested in jazz. Now I like all of them and write fusion music borrowing elements from each genre as I think they apply.
Posted by: steveMac

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 04:07 PM

Sorry, it's not end of story at all. There's plenty of music i dislike and plenty music i do like. Only certain styles of Jazz make we want to stick large needles in my ears and start gouging. I have no idea why it makes me feel this way. There is more to it than just disliking it. Much more. It seems as though it may almost be at a neurological level.

Originally Posted By: AnonymousInvention
Different people like different music. Pretty much end of story. Doesn't matter if it's the most wonderfully technically composed and performed work. You like it or you don't. I played rock (1960s), then heard Stravinsky and went classical (1970s getting my degree), etc. and it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I became interested in jazz. Now I like all of them and write fusion music borrowing elements from each genre as I think they apply.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: steveMac
There is more to it than just disliking it. Much more. It seems as though it may almost be at a neurological level.



That is exactly how it affects me too...
I was laying awake last night, and it got light and i was listening to the birds.
call and answer, call, call , ,answer answer.
And I thought of all the composers that use this phrasing in their works.... a replication of what happens naturally in the world.
Then I realised that not one single bird "went off on one" in an unmelodic improvisation such as a jazz player might, and I thought hang on, could my problem be that jazz doesn't happen in the natural world?
Posted by: rocket88

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: steveMac
There is more to it than just disliking it. Much more. It seems as though it may almost be at a neurological level.



That is exactly how it affects me too...
I was laying awake last night, and it got light and i was listening to the birds.
call and answer, call, call , ,answer answer.
And I thought of all the composers that use this phrasing in their works.... a replication of what happens naturally in the world.
Then I realised that not one single bird "went off on one" in an unmelodic improvisation such as a jazz player might, and I thought hang on, could my problem be that jazz doesn't happen in the natural world?



Thats what I was trying to say with this:

Originally Posted By: Rocket88
Smooth Jazz, however, cuts cross-grain with me, and makes me want to run in the opposite direction. I think I am pre-programmed to not like Major 7ths!
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/10/11 08:46 PM

we seem to be in a minority of 5 at the moment. lol Aha, maybe we could start our very own special club. A sort of elitist movement towards the melodic, where any hint of non -melodic form would be viewed with suspician. Knowing my luck there all ready will be a movement and I just haven't heard of it!! lol.
Posted by: Jose Hidalgo

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/11/11 06:58 PM

I will say I used to think like Rostosky until I started to jam a lot and doing interesting things with theory(on guitar because I am just starting with piano), when that happened I totally understood Jazz.

Think if it just like some guys having fun and doing interesting things/accidents !, when you ear it you don't have to try to make sense of it, just put attention on where those guys are going and how the armony moves, etc...
Posted by: FormerFF

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/12/11 09:51 PM

OK, now I get it.

A while back, I read an article on modern art. In it, the author, who was an art historian said that the reason that most people didn't care for modern nonrepresentational art was that it was art about art, as opposed to being art about life. Because most of us aren't that involved in art, modern nonrepresentational art looks like "ugly pieces of crap" (his term) to us.

So, I can see that the soloing/improvisation may well make sense to a jazz musician, it leaves most of the rest of us cold. It's basically jazz music taken to its farthest extreme. I also get the impression that many of the players are trying to "out-improvise" each other.

As far as smooth jazz goes, all I can say is that it's all fun and games until someone pulls out the wind chimes.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/12/11 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: FormerFF
I also get the impression that many of the players are trying to "out-improvise" each other.

As far as smooth jazz goes, all I can say is that it's all fun and games until someone pulls out the wind chimes.


Thats IT !!
Thing is as well, modern Art, now funny enough I do not have a problem with modern art, for instance when Andy Warhol exhibited a pile of bricks, I thought "well you crafty sod, well done,it may be just a pile of bricks but you thought of it first, and if you can sell the establishment that, then good on you"

Tracy Emin, Hilarious , and such a lovely lady, Unmade bed?
yep we all have one of those, and I bet mine has got more stains, toast and marmalade crumbs than most,( and I found something in it last week that could have been there for years) but Tracy thought of it first , and well done that girl for selling it to the establishment.
Maybe the GUy who bought it seriously thought her panties were worth the very cheeky price tag, I dont know.
What I am sure of though is neither of these pieces of art hurt my eyes the way some jazz hurts my ears and brain.
Posted by: Studio Joe

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 04:35 AM

Here is an interesting video thst helps me understand why I don't like modern jazz. And it shouls help those on the other side understand why they do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsnh21ae6YI&feature=fvsr

-
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Studio Joe
Here is an interesting video thst helps me understand why I don't like modern jazz.

-


Studio Joe, that works on so many levels!!
I did not realise that the whole video was 45 mins long, which I admit in hindsight was remiss of me.

However, after listening to five mins, my misses asked me what I was doing.
I told her I was listening to a youtube video that was teaching me how interestingly intellectual jazz actually is. (apparently)

After 15 mins, my misses asked me again what I was doing, and I told her I was listening to a youtube video that was teaching me how laboriously interesting jazz actually is. (apparently)

She then acused me of "untruthfull husband answers" pointing out that no youtube video usually lasts longer than 12 mins.

I now felt persecuted, after all I had the youtube jazz explanetry video in one ear and my misses in the other.

( I seriously hope no one else gets themselves in this particular predicament)

After Twenty mins of listening to the theoretically explanetry jazz video, I had nearly lost the will to live.
My misses asked again with added "rising wife tones" in her voice "what are you doing"

I was just about to answer "accidently commiting suicide love"
When she said "It's porn isn't it?" and went on to say, "why dont you just say, you know I don't mind"

I nearly answered "It is actually porn sweet one, but not as we know it" but chose not to in case she came over and disturbed me and inadvertantly caused me to have to watch the whole video again.

At 35 mins in to the mind numbing laborious theoretical explanetry lnstructional dialogue as to why my ears should accept this form of music as delightful, I began to make plans for the dispersal of my goods and chattels to my immediate dependants ,fearing my demise to be nearer than expected before viewing this video.

My wife, (having strange "lady intuition") asked me why I had turned gray and enquired as to "whats up with you then?"
She went on to state that "you were in a good mood before you went onto the internet" and finished by asking "what happened?"

I believe "what had happened" was that I had actually found something that was on a par with the most unpleasent procrastinations of mindless endless jazz improvisations,( to my ears and senses) vis a vie a seemingly mindless and apparently endless explanation.

Again with Hindsight, maybe it was in the very last five mins of the video that everything "resolved" and became one with the universe. I don't know, I could not take anymore,the nearest hospital with resuscitation equipment happens to be twenty miles away.
Posted by: cubop

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 04:12 PM

Rostosky! Interesting report you have there. As the great lover of Jazz I am, I managed about two minutes of that video - by jumping forward, listen for 10 seconds, and repeating the process a couple of times before I gave up, went over to the piano, put my brain on stand by, and enjoyed myself.
Whether people are playing Jazz to death, or talking it to death, I dont have to listen.
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 05:51 PM

Rostosky - I laughed laugh

Cathy
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 06:05 PM

Rostosky, I laughed too.....and I listened to about 30 seconds of the video.

I don't like (most) jazz because I find it irritatingly unpredictable.
Or irritatingly repetitive.

There is a bit of jazz I like - mostly Miles Davis, Oscar Peterson, some Duke Ellington -but a lot of jazz just makes me cranky.

My husband REALLY likes jazz and there are times when I just go to another room and let him enjoy his music. (I even BUY him records (yes, records) and CDs too, I just don't like listening to them for the most part).
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 10:54 PM

Minority of 8 and rising slowly !! Thanks folks for being very brave in what you say ! what did Arlo Guthrie say? cannot remember precisely but it was something like "X amounts and we have a movement" (From Alices restaraunt) wow I'm humming that now. lol.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Minority of 8 and rising slowly !! Thanks folks for being very brave in what you say ! what did Arlo Guthrie say? cannot remember precisely but it was something like "X amounts and we have a movement" (From Alices restaraunt) wow I'm humming that now. lol.


Well I think I fit in your minority, but I do love elements of jazz, minus the dissonance, married with other types of music.

This is one of my favorite bands and they have a lot of jazz in what they play, but they're melodic and don't have that dissonance you don't like.





Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/13/11 11:59 PM

Lefty chev, that's fine, it has recurring satisfying base lines,melody and harmony !! I like "you look like rain" best out of the two..... The sax in that reminded me of Angelo Badalamenti who wrote the music for Twin Peaks and Julie Cruise,

Which has made me think of David lynches "Industrial symphony no.1" ( Dream of the broken hearted) This isnt an example of Badalamentis sax sounds that I meant, but nevertheless.

As an aside, If I had a "Julie Cruise" in the boot of MY car, I would give her biscuits and some soda and offer her some blankets, and ask her if she would say she hadn't a clue how she got there if my misses was to ask.

Welcome to the minority of 9 lol. (its a non elitist movement)




enjoy.....

Posted by: beeboss

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 04:36 AM

Please can someone tell me if there is an ignore button on this forum?
Posted by: jotur

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 04:51 AM

Originally Posted By: beeboss
Please can someone tell me if there is an ignore button on this forum?


Yes, there is. Click on the user name, choose View Profile, and then near the top is the option to Ignore This User.

Cathy
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 03:13 PM

Just to clarify, select "Rostosky" click "view my profile"
then click "ignore this user"
Then hope you never need any help that "rostosky" might be able to give, say for example being the one underneath a piano that is being moved downstairs. Or giving your vehicle a jump start should you ever flatten your battery in winter.
Or sharing some very nice home baked biscuits my granma bakes.
Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 04:47 PM

Don;t worry Rostosky, I too don't like "Jazz", in the same sense that you don't.
The problem is Jazz is a VERY wide-encompassing term.
I certainly like some of the old standards (eg. Misty, That's Life, Autumn Leaves, etc.) but to me that's not the "jazz" that we're talking about here. At least not the free-form exploratory (masturbatory to me) style that you are referring to. Bores and irritates me to no end.
But that's just a personal thing and I certainly don't let it bother me, why should I?
Just like I like some classical but a lot of it is boring as well.
Some Bach I like (and play) but a lot of that seems pointless to me also.
But I never consider any of these preferences as anything other than a personal preference and certainly never judge anybody else by their preferences either.
I enjoy being able to appreciate a wide style of pieces, as well as play a wide style. The fact that I don't completely appreciate everything in one style has never entered my mind really and certainly is nothing for me to even think twice about.
Heck I have even begun to take "jazz" lessons recently but that is more to learn to play and improvise working with chord structures (and cheat sheets) since I can already read fairly well. But I definitely limit myself to working on pieces in the style that I like and completely avoid those that do absolutely nothing for me (except irritate me).
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 04:54 PM

I guess if you water down Baroque music it sounds like something for an elevator too.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Sparky McBiff
Don;t worry Rostosky, I too don't like "Jazz", in the same sense that you don't.
The problem is Jazz is a VERY wide-encompassing term.
I certainly like some of the old standards (eg. Misty, That's Life, Autumn Leaves, etc.) but to me that's not the "jazz" that we're talking about here. At least not the free-form exploratory (masturbatory to me) style that you are referring to. Bores and irritates me to no end.


Ah Sparky, you actually went "full frontal" so to speak by using the one word that has always been in my head to describe this, but that I avoided. lol.
At least with real masturbation,you have interesting "themes"
A good "build up"
And (usually) a satisfying "resolution"
Also, if your doing it right, it shouldn't be hurting anyone elses ears.
laugh
Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

At least with real masturbation,you have interesting "themes"
A good "build up"
And (usually) a satisfying "resolution"
Also, if your doing it right, it shouldn't be hurting anyone elses ears.
laugh


As long as you don't practice "aural sex".

(Sorry). smirk
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 07:03 PM

swiftly moving back to my failure to understand why I hate "those" types of jazz previously mentioned..
I got to wondering, has anyone ever improvised themselves to death or serious illness? I did a search on Google for "jazz musician fatally over-improvises" but didnt turn up anything.

I then wondered if a jazz musician had ever over improvised to the point where he ( or she, but its usually a he)had been rejected by his community?

so did another search; "jazz musician achieves 1000 metre social exclusion zone around his own person"

again Google failed me.

I then re-thought what Sparky had said, and wondered "is there such a thing as wanky - jazz?"

Googling in a bored sort of non expectant way could not have prepared me for the surprise and shock that followed.

Yes there is such a thing.. I dont know what it is, and I am not going to look, to be totally honest I am only really surprised that someone is finally admitting to calling it that.

Then I found that there is a help and support group for folk that say they hate jazz, with true personal stories, where one can get advice and chat, and share experiences in a caring loving safe enviroment.

Whilst it's not for me, as my life has not be as seriously affected by this genre as these poor souls lives have, I do feel justified in aquiring the 22 members numbers and accepting them into the movement on an honoury basis.

so thats 9 from here, + 22 honoury members from here;

http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Hate-Jazz/17945

making a grand total of 31 to date.
I must admit great surprise and a sense of awe at the sheer number of brave souls that have come forward so far,knowing the risk of ridicule to be high, accepting the strong likelyhood of being labelled intellectually bankrupt cannot have been easy. Standing up alone in a desert of scorching sand and having the nerve to ask for a glass of water takes some doing.
In these hard times of melodic revival being in it's infancy, I take great comfort in the 31.
Posted by: J Cortese

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 09:53 PM

It can be okay. Some of it at least. A lot of people equate jazz with bebop, which I do despise. It sounds like someone had a mouthful of 32nd notes and sneezed into a trumpet. I feel like I'm being attacked by a swarm of flies when I listen to bebop. I prefer the kind of music where you can tell if there's wrong notes.
Posted by: cubop

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 10:06 PM

Of things people love to hate, Jazz seems to be sorted out for special attention. I really dont mind, as long as a bit of humor is attached.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: J Cortese
I prefer the kind of music where you can tell if there's wrong notes.

32 and rising,soon no one will be able to slight us because its not politically correct to slight minorities.

I totally apologise if I gave the impression that Jazz is the only thing I dont like.
And to emphasise this particular point and address the issue immediately, here is a list of things that I also dont like, in order of importance.

My list of things I also dont like by Rostosky.
(1.) More jazz.
(2.) Accidently getting entangled under a 48 ton vehicle and being dragged down the highway in my underpants.
(3.) "Some" modern Jazz.
(4.) My own Mums shepherd pie (regardless of knowing the recipe)
(5) The thought of Zombies rising from the village graveyard, before I can get in touch with Milla Jovovich.
(6.)"some more" modern jazz.
(7.) Being ejected from under the 48 ton truck in my now torn underpants outside the local school just as the dinnertime bell is ringing.
(8.) Peas and other unnecesary greens that take space up on a dinner plate where good stuff like meat and pastries should go.
(9)Mormons calling at my front door; I cannot tell the difference (just from looking behind the curtains) between mormons and FBI.
(10)Cleo lane singing songs from all her albums which are all called "jazz essentials for the uninitiated"
(11) The Old lady on the bus who sat next to me on the 4th August 1992 and explained that the slurry smell from the fields might,just might, be her colostomy bag.
(13)Jazz musicians trumpet mutes; they dont help, I can still hear them play.
(14.) Heartburn from greasy food, the sort that makes you go cold when you think its actually the begining of a heart attack, and causes a panic attack,and sweats which makes it all seem worse,especially if you are in your bed alone at the time, with only your own fears to counter with.
(15)A dream I once had where every single sexual partner I had ever had in my life, were all in a room together, and I walked in, and they all stopped talking and pointed at me.
(16)Improvised jazz.
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/14/11 11:12 PM

I saw an episode of Sex in the City recently and this topic is what Sarah Jessi#a P#arker says. She says, "I hate jazz", and maybe you saw the episode. I won't spoil it in case you haven't seen it. But when I saw this topic I thought maybe that inspired it or else you need to read the episode online somewhere. ha.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:02 AM

LindaR hya , no not at all, it comes from my own brain, We do get Sex I T City here in the UK but my misses never has it on the telly, because it's about shoes and stuff.
My misses does have shoes of course, but only ones she needs, she doesn't have for example a wardrobe that only has shoes in it.
I don't like Sarahs chin. I know this is not an acceptable way to judge folk in general and I dont usually.
If I combine the thought of Sarahs chin with the expense of all the shoes in a walk in wardrobe,I lose the ability to function sexually.

I am however very glad to hear that Miss Parker does not like Jazz, I am sure she has her reasons even if they differ from mine, for example, she may not like jazz purely based on the cost of the musicians shoes or where they purchase them from,that's not a criteria that I have adopted.

So now we are a minority of 33 with an all inclusive expensive to maintain girl in our midst vis a vie Miss P.

I hasten to add, she will not get any special preferential treatment from this movement,but is welcome nevertheless.

As an aside,(according to folk who know)the girls from sex in the city always seem to have sex in the SAME city. I dont know if this is some sort of "repressed" trait or what. I feel it would be far more interesting if they had sex in lots of different cities,as variety is the spice of life and all that.

For obvious reasons I would not advocate New Orleans.

I once watched a whole episode of this soap,and I had the distinct notion that Miss P's head was actually too large for her body, like if you drew what you saw acurately an art teacher would say "dont be stupid, thats anatomically incorrect"

The upside to that would be that the art teacher would then go on to explain how usually in modern humanoids,the head is about 1/7 the size of the overall body.

That does not include high heels.

If a child drew a picture of Miss P accurately, I believe the childs mother would say "thats lovely dear,I will put it up on the fridge, now go and play nicely while mummy has her jazz time."

The downside would be the whole family may develop an eating disorder, as everytime they went into the fridge, they would subconciously associate food with developing an abnormal physique.

Saying that I would rather have an eating disorder than say, a disorder with my ears where every genre of music sounded like improvised jazz, that would be truly awfull.
I hope miss P's claims to not like jazz are genuine, and not just some girl excuse to go buy more shoes.
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:13 AM

I haven't really watched the Sex in the City series until very recently I saw a couple. smile Done.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:24 AM

LindaR you didnt explain why Miss P doesn't like jazz..
If I "get caught" on the internet looking up "Sex in the city"
My misses will think I (a.) dont like her shoes anymore,or (b.)
think I am looking at other women.
Or (c.) may be developing an eating disorder.
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:33 AM

Rostosky, I thought you might of watched the show and then made this topic. I guess I'm wrong you say. She didn't like Jazz because it didn't make sense or it wasn't melodic and then she meets a man who plays Jazz and she starts listening to Jazz and then when she breaks up with him she doesn't know why she ever liked Jazz. Now you have forced me to spoil the episode. I'm done okay?
Posted by: Dara

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:57 AM

So you hate jazz....
and have expressed it many times over in this thread
with arrogance,
a cowardly sense of humor and intelligence
in respect to
a vast spectrum of music.

I don't wish to be included in your #'s please.

Dara
Posted by: Myster Keys

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 02:19 AM

i can't really get jiggy with jazz either. i believe that i will enjoy it more when i'm older. i'm only 26.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 02:23 AM

Okay, just curious! I will provisionally count miss P in then; Total in minority 33 (but may change back down to 32 if miss P meets another man who likes jazz, a member who will need "watching" for a while)
Anyways dont worry any over giving the plot away, I wont tell anyone I promise.
I am sorry for pressing you, I hope you will accept some of my granmas biscuits by way of apology. Unlike my Mum, my grandma can cook and bake to a high standard , she does have a "make do and mend" and "waste not want not" attitude left over from WWII though,

So sometimes the biscuits may contain what some may consider "unusual and innapropriate ingredients" but they taste nice, I can recomend them most highly,furthermore it's not that difficult to pick out the cat hairs.(she doesn't put them in on purpose,its just her eyesight isnt what it used to be since the jazz related accident)

As an aside, my gran was born before modern Jazz was invented,
so her biscuits can honestly be advertised as "organic" and "Impro free" in so far as they are baked whilst Vera lynn plays quietly in the background from her wind up gramaphone.

When asked she said she would be delighted to bake for 33 people. ( I did not bring up miss P from sitc, because I promised I wouldnt tell anyone and it's best not to mention s.e.x to my gran as she embarresses easy)

MY gran once got terrible wind from accidently hearing a clarinet solo on a glen miller album, so I think it best not to actually mention "jazz non appreciation society" as well.

Thing is, this will be hard to explain to her, I cant just say "gran can you bake for 33 members of a non specific organisation?" she aint totally daft...she will suspect something and may think its "Ruskies" or some other subversive cult.

If I say "gran can you just bake for 33 members of that club that dont like that thing" ( she will think "that thing " is s.e.x because she calls it that as well)

If I say "gran can you bake for 33 members of the group against non-specific improvisation?"

She may twig, and say "it's not modern jazz is it"

And there lies the dilemna, I cannot lie to my own gran and say "no."
But If I say "yes" even if its followed by a "but" like "yes but"
she may have a fatal seizure and then no one will get biscuits.
I feel my gran has earned the right not to like modern jazz the hard way, she only owns one pair of shoes (very sturdy Clarkes T bar) that she has mended and carefully polished since 1923.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 02:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Dara
So you hate jazz....
and have expressed it many times over in this thread
with arrogance,
a cowardly sense of humor and intelligence
in respect to
a vast spectrum of music.

I don't wish to be included in your #'s please.

Dara



No probs Dara, I will leave the offer of biscuits open in case you change your mind though.
I do love mostly every other type of music to Modern jazz so would point out that as there is more music that isnt modern jazz than is, I have actually championed the cause of the vast spectrum of music. I do thank you for saying I have expressed it with inteligence, I appreciate that.
Whilst I was posting the number went up to 34,because another member who is only 26 included himself.

I take your point on board about being a coward, I would not like to go fighting in wars mainly because I really, really like my legs.

I think landmines are terrible things and would not want to step on one by accident.
I do like watching Sharpe though,(sean bean) he is very brave, and goes fighting wars all the time, he usually wins as well overcoming great odds with just a sword sometimes against cannons. There is also a theme tune they sing usually just before fighting Napoleon or "boney" as they call him... Sharpe is ever so brave,I hope you agree.
the song is a medieval ballad though and not modern jazz..so you may not approve..
Posted by: Teodor

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 04:27 AM

I don't understand jazz either. Don't hate it but I certainly rarely listen to it. To me it seems like a huge mess and I can't make sense of it at the moment.
Posted by: Dara

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 05:00 AM

why do I hate jazz?
By: Rostosky


Is it really your intention to initiate and prolong a 'hate' thread?

Surely you can do better,
in making a contribution to the diverse world of music.

How does your hate,
help anyone.
Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Dara

and have expressed it many times over in this thread
with arrogance,
a cowardly sense of humor and intelligence
in respect to
a vast spectrum of music.


Cowardly sense of humor?
At least he has one.

Quote:
Is it really your intention to initiate and prolong a 'hate' thread?

Surely you can do better,
in making a contribution to the diverse world of music.

How does your hate,
help anyone.


How does your snarkyness help anyone?

If this "hate thread" bothers you then perhaps you should go spread your enlightened intolerance in another thread.
Posted by: Dara

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Sparky McBiff
How does your snarkyness help anyone?
If this "hate thread" bothers you then perhaps you should go spread your enlightened intolerance in another thread.


Sparky's feeling snarky?

I'm not really into hate.
I'll leave you be, with your enlightened tolerance for hate.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Dara
Originally Posted By: Sparky McBiff
How does your snarkyness help anyone?
If this "hate thread" bothers you then perhaps you should go spread your enlightened intolerance in another thread.


Sparky's feeling snarky?

I'm not really into hate.
I'll leave you be, with your enlightened tolerance for hate.



Then why do you keep opening the thread? I agree that it's being carried a little far, but if you don't like it, there's an easy solution. Don't open the thread and read the posts.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 02:40 PM

Hya Guys ! I think it has been established by folks educating me that I dont "hate" all forms of jazz, just modern improvisational jazz that goes on for ages.
Maybe "hate" was a strong word to put in the title, In my defence,I only put it because "why do I find this tedious and a painfull physical assault on my ears and senses?" Didnt fit.

To clarify, to both jazz "buffs" and the uninitiated alike, I have drawn a pie chart that should explain things better.

Please feel free to mock my drawing skills, I am not an "artist" and am not claiming to be.
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 02:57 PM

-Maybe you are trying to express hate but its not really for jazz. Maybe you haven't even listened to much jazz. Jazz is just a substitute for something else grating on you. ?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:05 PM

Is the pie chart confusing?
Posted by: LindaR

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Is the pie chart confusing?


No. How are you doing with Lost Happiness?
This is my last message here Rostosky.
tired
Posted by: Elssa

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:22 PM

I don't mind modern jazz so much if it's played very softly as background music at a nice restaurant where I have a good meal, drinks and interesting dinner companion to talk to so that I don't have to concentrate at all on actually listening to that music. laugh Oh, what the heck, you can add me to the list of not liking most forms of modern jazz (I like some kinds that have latin rhythms). smile
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:28 PM

I am glad the pie chart was clear, I spent all night colouring it in. The main problem was my red felt pen had gone dry, because it had been kept without its lid on properly,a problem I have now rectified.
I had to keep licking it, which not only made my tongue go red but also made the paper so wet I nearly made holes in it.

Lost happiness, allthough I can now play it from memory has proved more difficult, I watched both Baremboims version on youtube and also Ignaz Friedmans version for guidance.

I posted to try and find out what folks thought of these two very different versions,but did not get many replies. So, being and old romantic decided to lean towards the Friedman version which I totally prefer.
friedman puts so much expression into it that it sounds like it will all come to a full stop on a couple of occasions, almost, but it never does of course.

As an aside, both Baremboim and Friedman only play what is written in the score, neither improvise endlessly.
I take comfort in this,as I think Mendelssohn may have intended this to be the case.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Elssa
laugh Oh, what the heck, you can add me to the list of not liking most forms of modern jazz (I like some kinds that have latin rhythms). smile


Ellsa you are so totally welcome. I believe that you may be number 35 at the moment.
As a special introductory privilege for "oustanding bravery in the face of possible social exclusion"
I have set aside 3 biscuits for your enjoyment.
Also if you don't like the number 35, and you have your own favourite number, like a lucky number or something, do say and we should be able to work out a "swap" with that member.

I would imagine bribery with granmas biscuits will achieve this to both parties satisfaction.
Posted by: jazzyprof

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

To clarify, to both jazz "buffs" and the uninitiated alike, I have drawn a pie chart that should explain things better.

Please feel free to mock my drawing skills, I am not an "artist" and am not claiming to be.

Since you've drawn such a nice flag of Japan, may I present, for your enjoyment...
Hiromi!

Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzyprof

Since you've drawn such a nice flag of Japan, may I present, for your enjoyment...
Hiromi!




Holy friggin smokes! shocked
Posted by: Auver

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Rostosky

To clarify, to both jazz "buffs" and the uninitiated alike, I have drawn a pie chart that should explain things better.

Please feel free to mock my drawing skills, I am not an "artist" and am not claiming to be.

Since you've drawn such a nice flag of Japan, may I present, for your enjoyment...
Hiromi!




That woman is so skilled and so joyful to watch!
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 04:25 PM

Thanks jazzyprof,
Hiromi is certainly an extremely talented pianist, and she seems very amused at what she is doing as well, which seems a little unusual for improvisors.
I am glad she is obvoiusly happy in her work.
However I feel that the Japanese sunami and subsquent breakdown of reactors 1 through to 6 isn't an appropriate subject for mirth.

Hiromi would probably better express this tragedy by playing something like The warsaw concerto, or even a smaller song that expressed sadness like say Death of Aase from the Peer Gynt suite.
I feel confident that her remarkable talents would allow her to do a stunning piano version that would be both moving and appropriate to the current situation in Japan.

Posted by: Roger Ransom

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 06:17 PM

I LOVE this thread. Rostosky, do you write books or essays? You should.

I like jazz and I'm enjoying your discussion. I don't know why anyone cares what each of us likes.
Posted by: Peyton

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 06:29 PM

How could anyone hate any kind of music when it's done well?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/15/11 06:56 PM

Please refer to the above pie chart, "hate " has allready been dismissed out of this thread. It was used in the title because what I wanted to say did not fit , it was about this long;

"why when I hear modern jazz........and then.......... ......also.........procrastinate................makes me ..............and then I am ill for ages?" (mostly)

Doing something very well, does not of itself mean that everyone will like it. To illustrate this, I would like to remind folks of the case of "The curious nasel whistling boy from Bolivia"
In 1879 the aforementioned boy broke onto the carnival circuit in a blaze of glory, he had the unique gift of being able to whistle the entire works of Motzart (on request) purely from his nose, note perfect I might add.
Whilst not only his parents but the entire media frenzy that followed approved of this ability, many Ladies of the time (and three trainee nurses) found it distastefull.

A quote from a lady of leisure taken from a newspaper cutting reads; " I was full of anticipation of hearing the Bolivian nasel whistling boy and put on my most expensive corset just for the occasion. Little did I expect that his performance would bring me out in shingles and cause me to eject my dinner, I regret buying a ticket now, and would not wish to hear him ever again, I do count myself fortunate,it could have been worse, he might have started improvising"







Posted by: cubop

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/16/11 02:57 PM

I can only agree with Roger, Peyton and Rostosky. Seems this thread is on the right track now.
Posted by: Elssa

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/16/11 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
As a special introductory privilege for "oustanding bravery in the face of possible social exclusion" I have set aside 3 biscuits for your enjoyment.

Great, thank you.. Love furry biscuits. grin confused

I have cats as well - shedding season now. That's fine.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/16/11 05:01 PM


Here is an illustration of the sort of Jazz I love...
Club members 1 through to 35 inclusive dont panic.....
Its cool.
Posted by: Sparky McBiff

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/16/11 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

Here is an illustration of the sort of Jazz I love...
Club members 1 through to 35 inclusive dont panic.....
Its cool.


That's pretty amazing how he makes his vibraphone sound like a full string orchestra.
That's some mad skills right there.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/16/11 11:59 PM

Strange what one finds out by accident, and today was no exception.
I woke up in a normal enough fashion, one of the neighbours petrol strimmers had entered one of my favourite dreams and changed it for the worse.
In that dream ( before the strimmers) I am explaining to Kate Bush that all teenage boys loved "That Poster" and were prepared to put up with the sqeaky upper registers of her voice all those years ago purely on the basis of a nipple.

Needless to say the strimmers changed the dream into something a little more frightening, in this case putting me in the same building as prohibition era jazz musicians,(no alcohol either, so no chance of blotting it all out) but not to dwell,I had a whole day to get on with.

Breakfast was good, I had part of a large Halibut, a ciggerete , some more halibut, jelly babies,and finished off with last nights left over chinese takaway.A whole pot of tea and some more ciggeretes.
I knew the takeaway would leave me hungry again in an hour or so , but I would be passing a very good pie shop on my morning outing.

As I bimbled down the road, my mind turned to music again, and I pondered the "melodic content issues" that have tormented me on and off since the 4th August 1979. (But not during the periods 11th Sept 83 through 17th sept 83 when I was having fun with a dubious lady who kept me occupied on other matters)
I stopped by pure chance next to the local parish church to have another ciggy, sit on the wall, and peruse the graveyard.

It was at this point that the village vicar appeared and came over for a chat, as there are only seven known persons in the entire Parish who will engage in conversation with him,(since the choirboy/jazz party scandle of 92) he doesn't miss an opportunity to partake of social discourse.

The first thing he asked me, was sort of accusatory; "your not still worried about Zombies are you?" and pointed to the gravestones.

That actually had a bit of a detrimental affect on me, because I hadn't been worried about Zombies today (up till that point) but now I was becoming worried,my main fear of course was that he was going to be the bearer of the news that I most feared like "well you should be worried, because last night...."

I just said "no" for the sake of not having to explain that I hadn't "bothered" Milla Jovovich on facebook since the injunction.

I mentioned I had been contemplating Jazz improvisation, I just mentioned it in a casual way with no facial expression at all , and I definately did not wretch or put my ciggerette out on my tongue or anything like that.

Imagine my surprise when he got violent.
Don't forget here, I had not been awake for very long so was still a bit fragile.
The absolute last thing I expected him to say during this clerical psychotic episode, (which strangly turned out to be the very first thing he did say) was ; "Do you really want all our churches to be smashed up again?"

"Padre" I said, "padre, I have not got the slightest Idea of what you are going on about, I swear, I really haven't"

"Then my son, ( I know it sounds stereotypicall, but he really did say that) you better come into the vestry with me and I will tell you all about it "
I fruitlessly racked my brains for the info on how the choirboy/jazz party scandal of 92 had actually ended,and indeed if any charges were brought, but drew a complete blank.

Once tea and biscuits ( his own ,not my grans, so some dissapointment) had been served by his curiously dressed housekeeper, he got down to the dusty business of pulling old books and parchments off the vestry shelves.

with a knarly finger, and a curled lip that still had biscuit crumbs on it he both pointed to a page in a book and questioned me at the same time with

"you've heard of the Ellwyn family curse boy" he hissed.

(please dont let it be zombies ,please dont let it be zombies was all I could think)
I managed to say " No vicar, I cant say I have"

"cant say you ave boy?,cant say you ave? can e not? "

At this point I have to say the vicars whole accent had changed dramatically, it was now a cross between victorian cockney and Circa 1643 pirate. I was strangly engrossed.

"well I tell e, Brother Tobias Ellwyn the 7th was of the order of the "secluded sect of uncommunacative brothers that ardly goes out of monastic grounds and nevers eats peas", so e was"

( I decided not to question the lengthy title of said brotherhodd, this was getting weird)

"And" I said,
"well boy, well might you "and", e had unatural family traits so e did, passed down through generations of the hideous Ellwyn line" "got caught red anded with pen and paper in is and, so he did"

Before I got a chance to say "doing what" the vicar just carried on " got it of his great grandfather they says, he tried to do it to greensleeves of all things"
And with a great sigh of woe, he carried on "greensleeves of all things, the Kings own song an all, made him so mad he burnt down all the monastries"

I really needed to get my pie and wanted this to make some sense before I left, so I got a bit "short" with him.

"Listen" I said, "just what did brother Ellwyn do, or try to do with the pen and paper, that his great great grandfather also did to greensleeves, that brought down the monastries, because everyone in his family had some sort of genetic irregularity?"

( I really hoped that covered everything)

"can do better than tell e, can show e" said the vicar and in a triumphal manner showed me the above score with the unnacceptable improvisational ideas that Brother Ellwyn had scribbled in for the lovely hymn of Jerusalem. His ancester having of course done the same with greensleeves and brought down the wrath of the king on the monastries.

"see boy, see" said the vicar, "thats the sort of trouble we be talking here, excomunication, family madness, a cursed line, looky boy, look at ye proposed score of Ellwyn, does that look normal to you?"

I had to admit on examination, that it didn't , I dont know if it was because it actually didn't or if I was worried all the pies may have gone.
He was good enough to give me a copy of Brother Ellwyns work "as an example of cloistered foolishness"
So I thought I would put it up for perusal.
Posted by: Jazz+

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/17/11 12:46 AM

Rostosky

Can you really dislike something like this?

"Oh! Good Grief" by Vince Guaraldi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfo2rgq4u10
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/17/11 01:44 AM

Yes. I hasten to add though, the picture of Charlie Brown showed him turning green which is a sure sign of being unwell.

I know this for absolute certainty because this happened to my sister on the "Pepsi-Max" Rollercoaster at Blackpool (UK).
My sister had eaten her usual dinnertime sustanence of Two halibuts and an average sized bag of chips. She was still holding her half eaten candy floss whilst on the rollercoaster.

I say "still holding" but technically it was stuck all over her face and hair owing in part to the forward motion of the rollercoaster, and to be fair also in part to her somewhat unorthodox eating habits.
In a nutshell, she went that exact same shade of green that Charlie seems to be, Immediately prior to showering the folk on the ground with her partially digested halibut.

I believe Charlie to not be on a rollercoaster in the video, neither do I understand him to be eating candy floss or Halibut.
I can only conlude that the reason for his turning an unearthly shade of deathly green be solely down to that particular piece of music.
It may be all those repeated high notes (possibly suggestive of a rollercoaster?) played on a piano that sounds much too "bright"
My Digital Piano once sounded too "bright" I was extremly worried about it because it cost £500 including the stand.

( It should have cost £580 and the stand should have cost £35. but the man in the music shop enjoyed talking to me about Mott The Hoople for ages and did me a good deal)

Anyways, getting back to the brightness issue on my piano, I was very worried, and then I saw a sliding control that said "brightness + or -"
well, can you imagine how happy that made me?
I toyed with the Idea of turning the brightness right up for devilment, but lacked the improvisational skills neccesary in this form of tomfoolery.

Needless to say, I turned it down, and have kept it that way since. I really like that control,it doesn't mess me about, (like my shoelaces do sometimes and cligfilm does allways)
and stays in the exact position I left it in, I feel this most satisfying for modern technology.

I like the sustain pedal on my piano as well, I dont use it all the time because there are laws about when to use it and when not too.
As an aside to mentioning that in the charlie brown piece the player may not have had access to a sustain pedal, did you know that folk sometimes think if you play motzart you should not use the sustain pedal?
Thats because in the past folk could not see the sustain pedal on motzarts pianos, they only looked in the obvious place.
Motzart was very clever though, he had a sneaky pedal operated by his knee!
That way, if one tried to copy what he was playing everyone would say " how awfull, nothing like motzart,all the notes are so stunted"

Back to the present, I know everyone will be happy and relieved to know by sister is feeling better.

I enclose a picture of charlie brown not listening to jazz.
I trust you agree he looks much better too, I fully understand he looks a bit cold, but it was winter and snowing.
There is no need to worry, he has what looks like an adequate coat on, and it's "character building" to play out in the snow. My Gran told me, my Gran makes lovely biscuits and I value her advise as much as she values her recipe , which she sticks to without improvising upon it ever.
Posted by: hoffy

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/17/11 08:32 AM

Well, what a return to the forum after a little break. What an entertaining thread. I can't believe I got through all 5 pages.

Oh, Hi Rostosky!

Now, here's a thought Sir, something that might be moderately entertaining for the rest of us now.

1) Setup a Web Cam. Find some place to stream it over the intardweb so we can all have a look
2) Find/buy a copy of Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew". Don't open it, don't play it....yet
3) Turn on Web Cam, start streaming so we can all watch
4) Listen to newly acquired Bitches Brew album.
5) Wait and watch with Much hilarity as Rostosky's head explodes. Should take about 2 to 3 minutes I think.

*Notes - If you can, get a few web cam's at different angles and see if someone can do some action replays for us!

OK, this is in jest as well. As you could have probably guessed, I like Jazz. I agree, there is quite a bit of Jazz not to like, but there is a lot to love. (BTW, I love Bitches Brew. It has an hypnotic rhythm that I just can't put my finger on!)

Do keep up the good work!
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/17/11 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: hoffy
Well, what a return to the forum after a little break. What an entertaining thread. I can't believe I got through all 5 pages.

Oh, Hi Rostosky!
.

1) Setup a Web Cam. Find some place to stream it over the intardweb so we can all have a look
2) Find "Bitches Brew".

*Notes - If you can, get a few web cam's at different angles and see if someone can do some action replays for us!



Do keep up the good work!

Hya Hoffy, thanks.
To show my immediate gratitude, I have capitalised your user name, I know technically this is improvisation, but I will edit it back down to a lower case h if you prefer.

I took your suggestion on board and enquired of "the keeper of the financial accounts on sensible husband spending"

If an allowance could be made for a series or multitude of webcams.
Unfortunately, on this occasion the answer was rather negative. It would appear that paying this months water bill, and the imminent need for hoover bags has taken priority.Also the kitchen flourescent tube has gone, and it's not just the "starter" either and using a chip pan has become seriously hazardous, you only get to see the boiling oil for a milli-second once every 7 seconds, I feel confident that you will understnd this has become one of those things that "we better sort out soonish"
Also, I was reminded by the keeper of said accounts that there are no immediate available funds for "girl-toys" either, which I understood to mean shoes.

I did try, but didn't push as hard as usual because of the trouble you caused me with Angelica Housten.
I know it wasn't intentional, and may have been partly my fault.

What happened was this;
I navigated away from this forum with the unfortunate quote "Bitches brew" in my head.
By the time I got to youtube I inadvertantly improvised this to "witches brew" and then to "witches" and "Brew" and then obviously I had a brew and a cigerette.

Whilst I was thinking of "brew" I noticed a strange taste in my brew, with hindsight I should have washed the cup that I had used for washing my hair the night before, suffice to say that was the cause.

So back to youtube to follow up your excellent suggestion,and naturally I searched "strange brew" and found the wonderfull song you must have originally meant by Cream.
I am not the worlds biggest fan of eric clapton ( and didn't even bother to capitalise his name)
but I do like this song, and am immpressed that ginger baker has always looked the same for centuries.

Obviously I was listening to this whilst I went and looked up the "witches" part, I soon found "The Witches" film by roald dahl that you was refering to, and I must admit I totally agree that Angelica Housten does look fantastic in that movie.

Herin lies part of the problem, I think I may have got a little overexcited and too engrossed, because I asked the keeper of the houshold accounts on sensible husband spending, if she would dress up like Angelica Housten for fun Before asking about spare funds for webcams.

With hindsight I can now see the mistake in this.
I have actually made this mistake on a few previous occasions,
once I asked the keeper of the houshold accounts on sensible husband spending "will you dress up like Milla Jovovich for fun"
She immediately answered "only If I can chop off your head like Milla does to zombies in the films"

As you may imagine , this was not the anticipated outcome that I had in mind, so I was forced into saying "okay then shall we have some tea and biscuits instead?"

I did take some satisfaction in consuming one of the biscuits all to myself in the kitchen and then claiming there was only four left to share.
Just to recap on "strange brew" by Cream, I fully understand that some folk may believe this was an attempt to emulate the Beatles, but this was England in the 1960's and some folk were confused.
As an aside eric clpton went on to make one more good song it was called "layla" a lot of folk liked this song.
Unfortunately, later on in life eric decided to make another version of "layla" which was awfull, so unless one is familier with the first version, it's probably best to assume that eric didn't actually go on to make "one more good song" at all.














Posted by: Coltrane59

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/20/11 08:49 PM

Simple answer: you haven't listened to enough Oscar Peterson smile

Also, you like it more when you study and learn the structure of the music.

So, here's something that will give you a little of both:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-FrnaU0rs&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Jazz is a tough style to dismiss entirely. Like any style, there' bad and good. Trust me though: there's some really good jazz once you find the genre(s) that appeal to you.
Posted by: Coltrane59

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/20/11 09:14 PM

S'more Oscar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swLnc_KSm4Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Watch with care though or your head might explode.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 05/20/11 11:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Coltrane59
S'more Oscar:

Watch with care though or your head might explode.


Guys, I really don't want to be pedantic, or be seen to be "Nit-picking" but I have every reason to fear my head exploding again, especially after the last infamous time it happened.
That fact that folk keep telling me to watch or listen with "care" does not allay my fears.
I like my head, yes it is not perfect, yes it has "blemishes" and goes to a slightly "pointy" crest on top, but it is my
head and I like it. (mostly) The doctors warned me most severly against suffereing future explosions even minor ones.

At the moment I am slightly more worried about judgement day and the implications this may have for me personally owing to some dubious lifestyle choices.

I am at present trying to decide if the "rapture" will happen all at once all over the world, or if it will go on a "time zone" basis, or indeed if it will happen like some sort of "Holy mexican wave" sweeping accross the world in a visually stunning but macabre display of the dead rising.

I am toying with the idea of rubbing muddy earth all over my face and body so as to appear allready dead and judged.

My doctor once warned me of the possible negative affects of constantly running these fears through my mind.
Posted by: Norman Cotterell

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/03/12 09:50 AM

Interesting thread. I'm just as puzzled why I like improvisational music with no discernible melody. Maybe it has to do with positive associations: my father taking me to hear Willie Bobo and Mongo Santamaria at Echo Park when I was a child, listening to Sarah Vaughn scat with the LA Philharmonic when I young and in love, a soundtrack to some of my most wonderful experiences.

Then again, I also have wonderful memories of "Uncle" Milton Babbitt. I worked at the library where he put music on reserve for his students. He was a sweet, kind man, but I found much of his music unlistenable, all the while full aware of his genius.

Is it tonality? I worked at Schoenberg Hall, and I liked his music too. I like twelve tone, whole tone, atonal, no-tonal music. Like Charles Ives, I delight in dissonance.

Is it the seeming arbitrary quality of the music? I like the chance compositions of John Cage -- It was always a treat cataloging his scores. And reportedly, Keith Jarrett doesn't know what he's going to play until it leaves his fingers.

Is it the lyric nature of melody? I like Beethoven and Sondheim when they are the least hummable, although most folks like an identifiable tune. I remember hearing Henri Lazarof complain about Zubin Mehta not putting contemporary composers (like him) on the program. I think I know why.

In short, different strokes for different folks. This may have more to do with my own personal psychology, the nature of preference, than any logical rule.

So maybe I'll give Philomel another listen.
Posted by: eNOTEquest

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/03/12 11:46 AM

Don't use "whilst," it's pretentious.

Overall your little narrative/commentary appeared a little ostentatious and pedantic.

However aside from that it was definitely creative and enjoyable.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/03/12 01:20 PM

Originally Posted By: eNOTEquest
Don't use "whilst," it's pretentious.



No, what is pretentious is either (a.) Jazz. OR (b.) correcting folks grammar / spelling/ choice of words to suit how one thinks the narrative should have been written, assuming of course that one could have written it oneself in the first place . ( but didnt probably due to a jazz related retardation malady)

This is a music forum, not an English language examination.
Posted by: kenjazz

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/04/12 01:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

Thats how much it actually "jars" in my brain.
The experimental music of tangerine dream and pink floyd as well as the velvet underground never had that effect upon me.
I have never heard Eric Saties vexations in their full "repeat 800 times" entirety, but I would rather than this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HN3nS5rUNs



Wow, I expected to see an exotic way-out-there Ornette Coleman video, not this MJQ piece with gorgeous harmony and melodic quality as your example of crap. I really think that musical taste comes down to a sense of rhythm. If you can't feel the rhythm in your musical soul, all other efforts of discovering melody and musical meaning will fail. If the groove that MJQ sets out in that piece does not set a flicker in your heart you have 0.0% chance of ever appreciating that music. The same is true for Rap or Polka or Nocturnes. For instance, all of us who love Rock can hum for you the note-for- note the improvised guitar solo to Reeling-in-the-Years by Steely Dan. All of us who love Jazz can hum for you note-for-note the improvised solos from All Blues by Miles Davis. Nobody who is drawn to the rhythm is deterred by collaborative instrumentation. The vast majority of humans can now no longer stomach the gorgeous melodies of classical music, why?: the rhythm.
I would bet a small fortune that those that can only abide classical melodies would find a completely improvised string quartet quite delightful. I would say, if you want to understand why you hate jazz (you are not alone!) understand your sense of rhythm. Jazz AND Classical are two of the most ubiquitously despised forms of music on the planet, and the reason is the same: The rhythm is not not talking to people today...
Posted by: Elkayem

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/04/12 09:54 AM

Can't believe I just read this whole thread. Not sure why it was revived, but I find it oddly fascinating. Personally, I have loved jazz since since I could count my age on my fingers especially the improvisation. It was never an acquired taste, simply love at first listen. (I can't play it yet, but that is a new project in my life.) I believe Rotosky genuinely doesn't like the music (not just certain genres) since it is the improvisation that he despises. His post of MJQ has convinced me. What I can't understand is why the music doesn't thrill some people the way it does me, but I certainly don't thing people should force themselves to acquire a taste or appreciation for an art form that doesn't speak to them. I must confess there is almost nothing on my wife's iPod that I would go out of my way to listen to, and most of it I frankly cant stand. Mostly 80s pop but also some newer stuff. She genuinely loves it though and has a hard time understanding when I don't love some new tune she discovered on the radio. To me, there are no surprises in any of that music. Simple harmonies, repetitive rhythm, same thing over and over again. To me, a good improvised solo is like a good dish at a Michelin rated restaurant which combines favors in a new and delightful way. I also love the complex harmonies used in jazz by some of the best musicians. My ears just need to be surprised. By the way, I also get bored by a lot of the classical music played by our commercial classical station, but put on a good Chopin Nocturne or Étude and the thrill is back.
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/04/12 10:44 AM

This thread seems to come and go, and is certainly on the go this week.

I had a look at my reply way back in May 2011, and felt I could come back and just add that my perspectives are shifting.

I said before that I found some jazz irritatingly repetitive or irritatingly unrepetitive.

What I now realize is that it isn't particularly JAZZ I dislike, it is ANY music that is repetitive or unpredictable. It doesn't have to be "jazz"!

Three times over the past weekend I found that we had the radio on (to pop stations) and I was thinking "wow, this is a boring song, it is just the same thing over and over and over"...

But then I also tend not to enjoy music by Einaudi or Einaudi-type music either (sorry Einaudi lovers smile I can appreciate the effort and skill that goes into playing them, but they aren't my cup of tea ) But neither are the Monk pieces I've been hearing in the ABF recitals lately....

That got me to thinking about "classical" pieces - to use the term broadly. I tend not to like dissonance, especially if it is a "surprise".

However, my exposure to so much more music over the past three years, mostly suggestions from people here in PW, and the fact that I seem to listen differently, really does seem to be encouraging me to relax, and rather than get cranky and tense I'm more inclined to keep listening. There are times when I realize..ok, that's enough, this grates on my ear...and other times when I feel like I'm getting glimmer of something rather enjoyable.

My horizons are expanding.

I think I can compare this to the art world too. I'm pretty conservative. I like pictures to look like pictures. Abstract art can be a colourful presentation of ..whatever, but it doesn't speak to me in the way a painted depiction of something real does.

Saying "I don't like jazz" is too broad a statement for me. Just like people who say "I don't like classical music".

Anyway, to each her own. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just updating my own musical journey and how I perceive things.
Posted by: Kymber

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/04/12 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
I bet some folk would be stunned at some of the music I love..



???
Such as?
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/04/12 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
I had a look at my reply way back in May 2011, and felt I could come back and just add that my perspectives are shifting.


heh. Your reply prompted me to go back and read *my* reply from way back in May 2011:

Originally Posted By: gahdzila
modern jazz.....I just don't get it. The abstract, dischordant, spontaneous stuff that follows no perceivable pattern. The stuff that is played live in bars full of silent Frenchmen smoking long cigarettes and wearing scarfs in the summer and sunglasses at night. The stuff that sounds like each band member is just tooting out a note once in a while to make his presence known. That stuff.

I'm with ya, bro. I don't get it either.


My opinion hasn't changed smile

My teacher assigned me a piano arrangement of "Night Train.". I tried for two weeks before I relented and gave up. I couldn't make it sound right.....probably because I wanted to gouge my eyeballs out every time I tried to practice it. And this is a piece that I actually don't terribly mind listening to, if it's played well. Turns out, I hate *playing* jazz even worse than listening to it.

No offense, jazz afficionados! I appreciate what you're doing musically, I appreciate your talent and your skill, and I fully acknowledge that my dislike of jazz may very well be rooted in my own shortcomings in being unable to wrap my brain around it. But...it just ain't my cup of tea.
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/05/12 02:44 AM

[quote=gahdzila Turns out, I hate *playing* jazz even worse than listening to it.
[/quote]

That's interesting because I've got a few beginners books for Jazz and blues and I find I actually get a huge kick out of playing it! (at my limited level!!!)
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/05/12 04:38 AM

if you dont like jazz, wait until you meet a jazz musician, they seem friendly at first but if things isn't going their way they will probably kill you
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/05/12 08:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Elkayem
Personally, I have loved jazz since since I could count my age on my fingers


Are you saying that if I learned to count my age on my fingers I would suddenly love jazz?

Classic quote: gahdzilla... "My opinion hasnt changed" lol, neither has mine, actually it has a bit, before, I just hated jazz because it makes me feel ill when I hear it, but since the "supermarket incident" I now feel that there should be high visibility written warnings whilst it is being played even at negligable decibel levels.

( If you noticed I said "whilst" again, that is because it is a legitimate word in the Oxford dictionary and is not an "improvisation" on the english language in the way the words "sidewalk" "fender" and "muffler" are.")

The supermarket incident of 4th january 1979.

I had to do a weeks shopping at Morrisons ( slightly dearer than tescos and Asda but better quality halibut and turnips)

Armed with a trolley and enough money I started about my business..I started in the vegatable isle, but then the shopping jazz started to come out of the supermarkets loudspeakers.

This made me so physically ill and mentally tormented that I just filled my trolley to the top with Butternut squashes.

When I got to the checkout, not only had I inadvertently deprived every other shopper of their chance to purchase a butternut squash, but also I had made myself look like some kind of pervert.

Jazz did this to me, I will not forget or forgive.
Posted by: KeemaNan

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/05/12 09:13 AM

I find it very hard to believe that Morrisons sold fancy-pants southerners' vegetables like butternut squashes in 1979...
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/05/12 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: KeemaNan
I find it very hard to believe that Morrisons sold fancy-pants southerners' vegetables like butternut squashes in 1979...


Are you suggesting that the "jazz incident" actually happened in 1989, and that it is worse than at first thought, vis a vis such a small amount of jazz stole ten years of my life from me?
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:53 AM

hey no big deal, I love jazz but hate classical, country, rap. So to each their own.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:59 AM

Another thing, jazz can encompass so many things that you really need to be specific. I don't even like certain kinds of jazz like old waltzes or swing tunes, and I consider myself a jazz musician.

Many pop stars have a jazz influence.

Sting is a good example. Many of his sidemen were proper jazz players, Branford Marsalis, Kenny Kirkland, Jason Rebello...

Jamie Cullum, Norah Jones.... they aren't jazz but you can tell they know it.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 08:20 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Another thing, jazz can encompass so many things that you really need to be specific. .


You are absolutely correct, so here it is:

I specifically do not like jazz.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky


You are absolutely correct, so here it is:

I specifically do not like jazz.



That tells me nothing. give me specific examples of musicians or jazz songs you don't like. Oscar Peterson and Wayne Shorter are both jazz, but sound completely different. Herbie Hancock is jazz but plays pop too.

Some people think Kenny G is jazz! Or Miles Davis.

Not sure why you even started this thread, if you don't like jazz just move on. No one's forcing you to listen to it. There's lots of music I don't like, but I'd rather focus on the stuff I do. I suggest the same for you.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:13 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N



That tells me nothing. give me specific examples of musicians or jazz songs you don't like.


Seeing as you asked so nicely, here is a quick abreviated list of just the jazz musicians I dont like, for jazz noises ( what jazz types call "songs" there is a longer list)

Here you go...

List of jazz musicians
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

This is a list of jazz musicians on whom Wikipedia has articles.
Contents

1 Giants of Jazz
2 By period
2.1 Early jazz musicians
2.2 Swing era
2.3 Modern innovators
2.4 Jazz fusion
3 By instrument
3.1 Accordion
3.2 Bagpipes
3.3 Banjo
3.4 Bass
3.5 Cello
3.6 Clarinet
3.7 Cornet
3.8 Drums
3.9 Flute
3.10 French horn
3.11 Guitar
3.12 Guitar Synthesizer
3.13 Harmonica
3.14 Harp
3.15 Multi-instrumentalists
3.16 Organ
3.17 Piano
3.18 Saxophone
3.19 Trombone
3.20 Trumpet
3.21 Flugelhorn
3.22 Vibraphone
3.23 Violin
3.24 Vocal
4 References

Giants of Jazz
Main article: Jazz royalty

By Birthdate
Instrumentalists

Scott Joplin (1868–1917)
Charles “Buddy” Bolden (1877–1931)
Duke Ellington (1899–1974)
Louis Armstrong (1901–71)
Earl Hines (1903–83)
Fats Waller (1904–43)
Count Basie (1904–84)
Benny Goodman (1909–86)
Art Tatum (1909–56)
Sun Ra (1914–93)
Thelonious Monk (1917–82)
Dizzy Gillespie (1917–93)
Clark Terry (born 1920)
Charlie Parker (1920–55)
Dave Brubeck (born 1920)
Charles Mingus (1922–79)
Oscar Peterson (1925–2007)
Miles Davis (1926–91)
John Coltrane (1926–67)
Chet Baker (1929–88)
Ornette Coleman (born 1930)

Vocalists

Louis Armstrong (1901–71)
Billie Holiday (1915–59)
Ella Fitzgerald (1917–96)
Dinah Washington (1924-63)
Sarah Vaughan (1924–90)
Nina Simone (1933-2003)

By period
Early jazz musicians

Louis Armstrong (1901–71)
Sidney Bechet (1897–1959)
Bix Beiderbecke (1903–31)
Buddy Bolden (1877–1930)
Earl Hines (1903–83)
Bunk Johnson (1879/1889–1949)
Nick LaRocca (1889–1961) & the members of the "Original Dixieland Jazz Band"
Jelly Roll Morton (1890–1941)
Joe "King" Oliver (1885–1938)
Red Nichols (1905–65)

Swing era

Count Basie (1904–84)
Cab Calloway (1907–94)
Benny Carter (1907–2003)
Charlie Christian (1918–42)
Jimmy Dorsey (1904–57)
Tommy Dorsey (1905–56)
Duke Ellington (1899–1974)
Benny Goodman (1909–86)
Coleman Hawkins (1904–69)
Fletcher Henderson (1897–1952)
Earl Hines (1903–83)
Johnny Hodges (1907–70)
Dick Johnson (1925–2010)
Jay McShann (1916–2006)
Glenn Miller (1904–44)
George Paxton (1914–89)
Artie Shaw (1910–2004)
Clark Terry (born 1920)
Fats Waller (1904–43)
Ben Webster (1909–73)
Paul Whiteman (1890–1967)
Lester Young (1909–1959)

Modern innovators

Toshiko Akiyoshi (born 1929)
Chet Baker (1929–88)
Dave Brubeck (born 1920)
Ornette Coleman (born 1930)
John Coltrane (1926–67)
Chick Corea (born 1941)
Miles Davis (1926–91)
Bill Evans (1929–80)
Gil Evans (1912–88)
Maynard Ferguson (1928–2006)
Dizzy Gillespie (1917–93)
Dexter Gordon (1923-90)
Chico Hamilton (born 1921)
Herbie Hancock (born 1940)
Joe Harriott (1928–73)
Thad Jones (1923–86)
Mark Kramer (born 1945)
Fela Kuti (1938–97)
Shelly Manne (1920–1984)
Frank Marocco (born 1931)
Jackie McLean (1931–2006)
Charles Mingus (1922–79)
Marcus Miller (born 1959)
Thelonious Monk (1917–82)
Charlie Parker (1920–55)
Oscar Peterson (1925–07)
Bud Powell (1924–66)
Louis Prima (1910–78)
Sun Ra (1914–93)
Max Roach (1924–2007)
Sonny Rollins (born 1930)
Wayne Shorter (born 1933)
Peter Sprague (born 1955)
Sonny Stitt (1924–1982)
Ira Sullivan (born 1931)
Cal Tjader (1925–1982)
Clark Terry (born 1920)
Dhafer Youssef (born 1967)

Jazz fusion
Main article: List of jazz fusion artists
By instrument
Accordion

Luciano Biondini
Richard Galliano (born 1950)
Pete Jolly
Frank Marocco (1931-2012)
Mat Mathews
George Shearing
Art Van Damme (1920–2010)

Bagpipes

Rufus Harley (1936–2006)
James Rivers (?- present)

Banjo

Jimmy Mazzy
Béla Fleck (born 1958)

Bass
Main article: List of jazz bassists

Arild Andersen (born 1945)
Don Bagley (1927–2012)
Max Bennett (born 1928)
Keter Betts (1928–2005)
Jimmy Blanton (1918–1942)
Richard Bona (born 1967)
Wellman Braud (1891–1966
Brian Bromberg (born 1960)
Ray Brown (1926–2002)
Steve Brown (born 1942)
Ron Carter (born 1937)
Paul Chambers (1935–1969)
Stanley Clarke (born 1951)
Bill Crow (born 1927)
Art Davis (1934–2007)
Richard Davis (born 1930)
Ray Drummond (born 1946)
Jimmy Earl (born 1957)
Pops Foster (1892–1969)
Eddie Gomez (born 1944)
Jimmy Garrison (1933–1976)
Vivien Garry (died 2008)
Coleridge Goode (born 1914)
Henry Grimes (born 1935)
Charlie Haden (born 1937)
Stuart Hamm (born 1960)
Milt Hinton (1910–2000)
Dave Holland (born 1946)
Chubby Jackson (1918–2003)
Bill Johnson (double-bassist) (1872–1972)
Red Kelly (born 1927)
Scott La Faro (1936–1961)
Wendell Marshall (1920–2002)
Cecil McBee (born 1935)
Christian McBride (born 1972)
Ron McClure (born 1941)
Pierre Michelot (1928–2005)
Marcus Miller (born 1959)
Charles Mingus (1922–1979)
Red Mitchell (1927–1992)
Joe Mondragon (1920–1987)
George Mraz (born 1944)
William Parker (born 1952)
Jaco Pastorius (1951–1987)
John Patitucci (born 1959)
Gary Peacock (born 1935)
Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen (1946–2005)
Oscar Pettiford (1922–1960)
Terry Plumeri (born 1945)
Pino Presti (born 1943)
Rocco Prestia (born 1951)
Sage Reynolds
Steve Rodby (born 1954)
Clarence Seay (born 1957)
Patrick Scales (born 1965)
Esperanza Spalding (born 1984)
Slam Stewart (1914–1987)
Brian Q. Torff (born 1954)
Miroslav Vitouš (born 1947)
Eberhard Weber (born 1940)
Gary Willis (born 1957)
Eugene Wright (born 1923)

Cello

Matt Brubeck
Oscar Pettiford
Mark Summer

Clarinet

Woody Allen (born 1935)
Craig Ball
Barney Bigard
Don Byron
Evan Christopher
Anat Cohen
Eddie Daniels
Kenny Davern
Buddy DeFranco
Johnny Dodds
Irving Fazola
Pete Fountain (born 1930)
Victor Goines
Benny Goodman (1909–86)
Edmond Hall
Jimmy Hamilton
Woody Herman
Peanuts Hucko
Michael Marcus
Ken Peplowski
Woody Herman
Sid Phillips
Russell Procope
Pee Wee Russell
Tony Scott
Artie Shaw
Putte Wickman
Lester Young

Cornet

Nat Adderley (1931–2000)
Louis Armstrong (1901–71)
Bix Beiderbecke (1903–31)
Buddy Bolden (1877–1931)
Bobby Hackett
Jeff Hughes
Red Nichols (1905–65)
Rex Stewart
Chris Tyle
Steamboat Willie

Drums
Main article: list of jazz drummers
Flute

Don Burrows
Peter Guidi
Paul Horn
Rahsaan Roland Kirk (1935–77)
Moe Koffman
Hubert Laws (born 1939)
Yusef Lateef (born 1920)
Herbie Mann (1930–2003)
Bill McBirnie
James Moody
Sam Most
James Newton
Sam Rivers (born 1923)
Bud Shank
Les Spann
Jeremy Steig
Dave Valentin
Frank Wess

French horn

John Clark
Junior Collins
Willie Ruff
Tom Varner
Julius Watkins

Guitar
Main article: list of jazz guitarists

Laurindo Almeida
Paul Bollenback
George Benson
Kenny Burrell
Royce Campbell
Larry Carlton
Dan Faehnle
Tal Farlow
Jim Ferguson
Scott Fields
Grant Green (1935–79)
Tiny Grimes
Vic Juris
Barney Kessel (1923–2004)
Earl Klugh (born 1954)
Mundell Lowe
Pat Metheny
Oscar Moore
Wes Montgomery (1923–68)
Bucky Pizzarelli
John Pizzarelli
Jimmy Raney
Django Reinhardt (1910–53)
Emily Remler (1957–90)
Sal Salvador
Johnny Smith
Les Spann
Peter Sprague (born 1955)
Chuck Wayne
Jack Wilkins

Guitar Synthesizer

Adrian Belew
John McLaughlin (musician)
Pat Metheny (born 1954)
Peter Sprague (born 1955)

Harmonica

Eddie Shu
Toots Thielemans

Harp

Dorothy Ashby
Alice Coltrane
Corky Hale

Multi-instrumentalists

Mose Allison (piano, trumpet)
Dee Barton (trombone, drums)
Count Basie (piano, organ)
Sidney Bechet (1897–1959), (clarinet, soprano sax, trumpet, bass, drums)
Larry Bunker (drums, vibes)
Jaki Byard (1922–99), (alto sax, piano)
Benny Carter (1907–2003), (alto sax, trumpet)
Ron Carter (bass, piccolo bass)
Ray Charles (piano, alto sax)
Ornette Coleman (alto sax, violin, trumpet)
Alice Coltrane (1937–2007), (piano, organ, harp)
Eric Dolphy (1928–64), (bass clarinet, clarinet, flute, alto sax)
Don Ellis (trumpet, drums)
Bob Enevoldsen (trombone, tenor sax, bass)
Victor Feldman (1934–87), (piano, vibraphone, conga drum)
Johnny Frigo (violin, bass)
Tyree Glenn (trombobne, vibes)
Corky Hale (piano, harp)
Lionel Hampton (vibes, drums, piano)
Tubby Hayes (tenor sax, clarinet, vibes)
Daryl Hayott (born 1960), (bass, drums, guitar, keyboards, trumpet)
Milt Jackson (vibes, guitar, piano)
Dick Johnson (1925–2010) (clarinet, alto saxophone, flute)
Pete Jolly (piano, accordion)
Rahsaan Roland Kirk (flute, nose flute, tenor saxophone, manzello, stritch, 'black mystery pipes', clarinet, gong, percussion)
Yusef Lateef (tenor sax, flute, oboe, many other woodwinds)
Marcus Miller (born 1959), (bass, bass clarinet, saxophone, keyboards, guitar)
Ray Nance (1913–76), (trumpet, violin)
Hermeto Pascoal (Keyboards, button accordion, melodica, saxophone, others)
Oscar Pettiford (bass, cello)
Danny Richmond (drums, saxophone)
Adrian Rollini (vibes, bass saxophone)
Willie Ruff (French horn, bass)
Helge Schneider (saxophones, clarinet, piano, trumpet, drums)
Tony Scott (clarinet, baritone sax, guitar, piano)
George Shearing (piano, accordion)
Eddie Shu (trumpet, tenor sax, harmonica)
Les Spann (flute, guitar)
Ira Sullivan (trumpet, saxophones, flute, flugelhorn, others)
John Surman (saxes, clarinets, piano, synthesizer)
Jean "Toots" Thielemans (guitar, harmonica)
Mel Torme (piano, drums)
Tommy Vig (vibraharp, drums, percussion)
Mike Zwerin (1930–2010) (trombone, bass trumpet)

Organ

Alice Coltrane (1937–2007)
Joey DeFrancesco
Barbara Dennerlein (Hammond-B3, synthesizer, real pipes)
Bill Doggett
Charles Earland (1941–99)
Dan Fogel (Hammond-B3 organ)
Larry Goldings
Richard "Groove" Holmes
Jack McDuff (1926–2001)
Amina Claudine Myers (born 1942)
John Patton
Trudy Pitts
Sun Ra (1914–93)
Melvin Rhyne
Ray Charles Robinson (1930–2004)(Piano)
Rhoda Scott (born 1938)
Shirley Scott (1934–2002)
Jimmy Smith
Lonnie Smith
Lonnie Liston Smith (born 1940)
Fats Waller (1904–43)
Harold Ivory Williams Jr. (organ, keyboard, piano, sitar)
Reuben Wilson
Larry Young

Piano
Main article: list of jazz pianists
Saxophone
Main article: list of jazz saxophonists
Trombone
Main article: list of jazz trombonists
Trumpet
Main article: List of jazz trumpeters
Flugelhorn

Art Farmer
Dmitri Matheny
Woody Shaw
Clark Terry (born 1920)
Kenny Wheeler

Vibraphone

Peter Appleyard
Roy Ayers
Larry Bunker
Gary Burton
Teddy Charles
Warren Chiasson
John Cocuzzi
Walt Dickerson
Tyree Glenn
Stefon Harris
Lionel Hampton
Tubby Hayes
Jay Hoggard
Bobby Hutcherson
Marjorie Hyams
Milt Jackson
Joe Locke
Max Miller
Steve Nelson
Red Norvo
Terry Pollard
Chuck Redd
Emil Richards
Joe Roland
Adrian Rollini
Jerry Tachoir
Cal Tjader
Tommy Vig
Dinah Washington
James Westfall

Violin
Further information: Musical styles (violin)

Billy Bang (born 1947)
Regina Carter (born 1966)
Ornette Coleman
Mark Feldman (born 1955)
Johnny Frigo
Stéphane Grappelli (1908–97)
Valentin Gregor (born 1963)
Joe Kennedy
Didier Lockwood (born 1956)
Ray Nance (1913–76)
Florin Niculescu (born 1967)
Jean-Luc Ponty (born 1942)
Stuff Smith (1909–67)
Ginger Smock (1920–95)
Eddie South (1904–62)
Joe Venuti (1903–78)
Noel Webb (born 1958)
Michael White (born 1933)
Claude Williams (1908–2004)
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:16 AM

On another note, having clicked your link to have a listen, I gotta say I HATE your music. Sounds horrible man.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:20 AM

Dude I think you got mental problems. I lived in the UK and met some really weird people. Some Brits have quirky and odd habits. You are telling me you listened to all those artists? Good grief grow up and get a life man.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
On another note, having clicked your link to have a listen, I gotta say I HATE your music. Sounds horrible man.


I am happy that you do not like my music, it is not intended for jazzicians.

However, it is liked by a prior organist at Westminster cathedral who holds a licentiateship from the RCM.

When I considered for .006 of a second whos opinion on my music to defer to, I realised you may be at a disadvantage, what with not having written any masses that have been accepted by the church like he has, for example.

But (like most jazz musicians) I am sure you know best.
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 09:58 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Not sure why you even started this thread


Because he's a troll. He's having a little fun ruffling your feathers.

We keep him around because he's a semi-likeable troll and his jokes are occasionally somewhat funny laugh
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 10:03 AM

Originally Posted By: gahdzila
Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Not sure why you even started this thread


Because he's a troll. He's having a little fun ruffling your feathers.

We keep him around because he's a semi-likeable troll and his jokes are occasionally somewhat funny laugh


highly unlikely, RST has two and a quarter MILLION views and 5,600+ replies, folks do not usually go to this extent to humour trolls.


Stop trying to raise your post count up to mine with unfounded accusations. lol.
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 10:37 AM

Hey, no offense intended! 2hearts I did say "semi-likeable" and "occasionally funny"!

As for the post count, I don't think you're in any danger of losing that title to me. wink
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 11:12 AM

No offence taken, It is not your fault that you typoed "semi likable" instead of "totally likeable chap" and "occasionally funny" instead of "immensely amusing to the point of incontinence"

You may have been distracted by jazz at the time of posting.

I was just thinking, to me Jazz is the only thing worse than the sound of a nagging women, and most men have the ability to detune their ears to the sound of a nagging women so we dont actually hear it anymore,

we learn to say things at the end of the nag like " oh yes how correct" or " Indeed" or "Okay, I will get onto it first thing in the morning"

If asked, even for lots of money we cannot repeat any of the nag, because we were not listening.

Some men lock their women up in the cellar and beat them to stop the nagging.

This does not work for jazz musicians, they will still carry on playing and improvising, and seem to thrive in dark places.



Posted by: Tribbs

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 11:41 AM

In order to enjoy Jazz you must be one of the [un]fortunate few who are anointed by a very rare type of cosmic ray. This rare cosmic ray contains stable particles of antimatter that manages to penetrate the earth's atmosphere intact. It typically aims straight for the atomic bull's eye on a victims forehead. Most of this jassy antimatter slices right through the cortex without any evidence of its visit. However, should that one rare event occur that disrupts a certain synapse in the auditory cortex the victim will become smitten with dissonance and will aimlessly and helplessly search for a stable chord for the remainder of his life.

None the worse for wear, victims will claim superior musicianship [Allegedly as a result of relentless hours spent developing and repeatedly playing obscure scales in a syncopated beat.] and befriend fellow victims in the dark recesses of shady nightclubs. There is no known cure. Probably because none has been sought.

Sometimes they can be quite the spectacle!
Witness: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rxYw7Y45Eo smokincursing
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 12:12 PM

For those that cannot be bothered to follow a link , this is what Tribbs just posted.



What new shade of H E L L is this?

No, dont answer that, because what I will hear is this: (remember the sound of a girl nagging)

"Blah Blah Blah, technical merit, blah blah blah blahety blah blah, improvised procrastination, blah chord structure lead sheet blah blah blahety, long windy explanation of worth, blah blah structural integrity.... blah blah extremely awkward dominant 7th + 13th augmented 5th/Eb variation upon a nice sounding chord. blah blah infinitum."

And it still sounds like total shite to me.


In fact , after listening to that, I actually said "dont worry, I promise I will fix the hoover first thing in the morning"
Posted by: Tribbs

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 12:25 PM

(sent to Tartarus)
Posted by: KeemaNan

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 02:12 PM

That video's great - the thing that struck me more than anything is that from the expressions on their faces and their body language, all three of those people appear to be in some considerable pain. I thought that the first cut to the guy with the six string bass was a great comedy moment - perfect timing.

I'm always wary when there are more than four strings on a bass. Just get a guitar already if you want to play solos.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: KeemaNan
That video's great - the thing that struck me more than anything is that from the expressions on their faces and their body language, all three of those people appear to be in some considerable pain.



The expressions on their faces were nothing compared to the expression on both my dogs face and my own face, we were in so much terrible pain also, fortunately , only for a fraction of the time that the performers were in pain for.

This was because the performers played for a much longer length of time than either myself or the dog could listen to.

we managed 14.7 seconds.
Posted by: KeemaNan

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 05:31 PM

I just watched a bit more of that video. I'm sure that's Eric Idle on the drums. Maybe if you watch to the end they break into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: KeemaNan
. Maybe if you watch to the end they break into 'Always look on the bright side of life'.


You aint going to catch old Rossy that easy.

Thats allmost like saying "just give me the cash and i will go and get it for you" I have been around for longer than that.

Absolutely no chance whatsoever of me watching any more of that upsetting and spleen bursting noise ever again.

If anyone knows what a spleens purpose is, do let me know, I dont know what it does, am to lazy to google it and the only thing I can safely say is that jazz is detrimental to ones spleen/car/paraboots/dog/position in society/rectal elasticity.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:21 PM

For someone who purports to hate jazz, you sure spend ALOT of time talking about it. You must have a secret crush or something. Why are you wasting so much time writing, shouldn't you be practicing or playing. almost 3000 posts, geez, what a waste.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:23 PM

hey dude do you have any friends in real life? just askin' hit up Ronnie Scotts. you may find some there.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44U4U2pyV...ture=plpp_video

You might want to get a proper piano stand. You just about killed your digital!! haha. Learn this word, dynamics.

I reckon even the lowest graded jazz players at juco could outplay you with their left hand.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/06/12 07:54 PM

I propose we lock you up in a room playing Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor 24/7. You'll be a reformed man in no time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP5L8tjnB6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmeNsmQaFw&feature=related
Posted by: rnaple

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 02:23 AM

Oh no... Rossy...have you fallen off the wagon again? Quick! Somebody check the basset hound for over medication! smile

Seriously... Music is an expression of the heart. Then with some it becomes a match with their nervous system. Also shows their heart. Same way with some jazz.
Now I find this jazz just plain hot....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NdJFmyLm...ture=plpp_video
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 03:34 AM

Words reveal the character and heart behind a person's intentions. For this guy to start a thread and write all this vitriol about jazz shows a deep angst. I doubt very much it is only jazz that gnaws at him, perhaps some childhood trauma or family issue has affected him and his only recourse is to lash out at jazz. It's pretty funny from my point of view.

A true musician never denigrates the art form. There are many musical styles I like and some I don't like. I don't go off pontificating on those which don't appeal to me. Why waste time on that when I could be listening and playing music I enjoy.

Professional or amateur, I highly doubt he's taken serious time to study, learn, teach, perform and share music with integrity. I personally would not trust or hire him for any of the above.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 07:04 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Why are you wasting so much time writing, shouldn't you be practicing or playing.


Dude, you then went on to write another four posts without anybody else posting inbetween, This is exactly what jazz musicians do, they go on and on and on without anyone else getting a chance...

They too like the sound of their own solitary voices.

Quote Wizenedman again " I personally would not trust or hire him for any of the above."


Dude, you couldnt afford to. (And dont try offering me Euros again)
Posted by: piano joy

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 07:28 AM

I just want to know who's going to start the thread titled
" Why do I hate disco? " ......



Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 07:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

Dude, you then went on to write another four posts without anybody else posting inbetween, This is exactly what jazz musicians do, they go on and on and on without anyone else getting a chance...

They too like the sound of their own solitary voices.

Quote Wizenedman again " I personally would not trust or hire him for any of the above."


Dude, you couldnt afford to. (And dont try offering me Euros again)


hey dude, take a look in the mirror. most of your single posts here are longer than my 4 posts combined!

Learn this word: brevity

You really have no clue about jazz, most players play in groups not solo.

My last performance cheque could no doubt easily cover your pedantic fee, but why bother when I got 10 year old students who play better than you and for free?

I heard they're looking for buskers again at Picadilly Circus, best put in an audition while you can. You might get lucky with a quid or two.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 08:14 AM

dang man with all the posts you have you could have written a bloody novel! problem is no one would buy it!

I think I hate your writing style like you hate jazz. It's so filled with incoherent ramblings that I just skip over everything. I'll put you on ignore eventually but for now I'm having too much fun ribbing you. =)
Posted by: griffin2417

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 08:22 AM

Originally Posted By: piano joy
I just want to know who's going to start the thread titled
" Why do I hate disco? " ......





Go for it PJ!! I'd be delighted to post my Kool and the Gang favorites! laugh
Posted by: gahdzila

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 11:10 AM

Gentlemen, PLEASE! A little ribbing and teasing is fine, I've certainly done my share here...but let's cool it with the personal attacks, shall we? Not that I think Rossy needs any help from me, but scrolling through post after post of personal attacks in what was previously a funny and light-hearted thread is getting tiresome.

I don't know if you clicked these links or not, Rossy...but I presume you haven't if your spleen is still intact. I recommend keeping your distance if you value your semi-useless internal organs.

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
I propose we lock you up in a room playing Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor 24/7. You'll be a reformed man in no time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP5L8tjnB6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMmeNsmQaFw&feature=related
Posted by: eNOTEquest

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
dang man with all the posts you have you could have written a bloody novel! problem is no one would buy it!

I think I hate your writing style like you hate jazz. It's so filled with incoherent ramblings that I just skip over everything. I'll put you on ignore eventually but for now I'm having too much fun ribbing you. =)


Hear hear! I'm new here, but it only took reading one of R's posts to realize that he's a music elitist wanker. I don't even love jazz, but having my eyes fall upon the pretentious verbal masturbation of R is a fate I would not wish upon my worst enemies!
Posted by: eNOTEquest

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 12:27 PM

Of course you can't criticize dudes like this because they suck back the compensating e-attention and spit it back in the form of more verbal masturbation, which is why I'll be peacing now wink
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
dang man with all the posts you have you could have written a bloody novel! problem is no one would buy it!

I'll put you on ignore eventually


You are absolutely correct, I did write a novel that nobody bought , the publishers said the problem was actually in the title though.

It was entitled, "wizeman,mentally abusing ten year old students with jazz related augmented 5th+13th's"

My next novel will have a better title, something like Piano joy suggested " Is disco brain dead or is it just unwise, man?"

I thought that a much cleverer title because you cant prove a negative.

Anyways, do not wait to put me on ignore, I Love being on folks ignore list, that way I get to see what they post , but they cannot see what I am posting, fantastic Idea.

So, if you hate jazz your an "elitist wanker?" excellent, much better than just being a common wanker I suppose.

allthough as I love every other genre of music apart from jazz I fail to see how that works.
(Bagpipes isnt music as I understand it)

Great to see you back Piano joy by the way, long time no hear.
Posted by: piano joy

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: eNOTEquest
[quote=WiZeM@N]

Hear hear! I'm new here, but it only took reading one of R's posts to realize that he's a music elitist wanker. I don't even love jazz, but having my eyes fall upon the pretentious verbal masturbation of R is a fate I would not wish upon my worst enemies!


I learned a new phrase today. Wonder if I'll EVER be able to incorporate it into my lexicon.
I love this place....

(thanks for the welcome, Rossy...)
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/07/12 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: eNOTEquest
Of course you can't criticize dudes like this because they suck back the compensating e-attention and spit it back in the form of more verbal masturbation, which is why I'll be peacing now wink


I couldn't have said it better myself eNOTEquest!
Posted by: Elssa

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 12:34 AM

Well, my arm's still too sore to play much, so guess I'll join in the discussion here.. I've tried two local jazz teachers over the years because I thought it might be fun and I do like some jazz, but they didn't last long. Both rolled their eyes at me right from the start and said my playing was too "cocktail style" and "you have to think like a jazz player, not cocktail player". I asked what do you mean, and he says my playing is too "flowery". I said "Well, what do you have against flowers"?! LOL That was the end of my lessons. I think maybe Chopin and Tchaikovsky were accused of the same thing? Just play what you love, IMO. The best teacher I ever had (about 25 years ago) combined classical, cocktail, jazz, etc, etc.
Posted by: rnaple

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: gahdzila
Gentlemen, PLEASE! A little ribbing and teasing is fine, I've certainly done my share here...but let's cool it with the personal attacks, shall we?


I agree. Like in music. The heart shows in what is said.
We got a couple "gentlemen" who have been here less than a month. They're posting destruction.

Who is the real troll?

Rossy always posts creativity. Causes us to think. Be amused. Entertains people with expanding their minds. I like him. Even though I like to rib him also. smile

EDIT: I've always said I love the mind of jazz. The creativity. Particular players are irrelevant to me.
Posted by: Stephen300o

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 03:24 AM

Jazz always seems to be for those who can't remember what to play.
While punk is fo those who can't remember how to play.
Posted by: rnaple

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

What new shade of H E L L is this?

No, dont answer that,...


Originally Posted By: Tribbs
In order to enjoy Jazz you must be one of the [un]fortunate few who...There is no known cure. Probably because none has been sought.

Sometimes they can be quite the spectacle!


I like to call that: Prozac music. High sugar diets. Energy drinks. Diet pills. Any of that will cure you. Will understand it perfectly. Will actually like it.
See Rossy? You just need to get your Doctor to change your prescription. But then, your Basset Hound will leave you.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 05:58 AM

I'm sure old Rosto can handle a few insults his way. With a title like that he knew full well he'd get the jazz guys all riled up. Time to take what you can dish. He's a man.

and no, his posts aren't creative or worthy of anything at all. what I don't get is for someone with so little musical skill why are you not practicing more? Get off the forums and get in the woodshed.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 06:24 AM

Of course I can take insults, but you cannot keep insulting me just because I am a hetrosexual, thats not allowed.

You keep your piano in the woodshed?

probably best place for it, hope its right at the bottom of a very very long garden where the neighbours dont have to suffer the jazz.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 09:11 AM

Huh? you make no sense dude. for someone who prides himself on hating jazz i'm surprised how little knowledge you have of it. obviously you haven't heard of the "woodshed" metaphor, shows you aren't even a real musician.

get your chops up and keep working on that C major scale. you'll get there one day.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 09:14 AM

Here's one of the newest sensations on the jazz piano scene. Mixes cool middle eastern soul into his playing.

Don't click on it, you may actually like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OidCfcMI7Lw
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 09:18 AM

This girl is hotter than any you'll ever date. Sadly she passed away last month. Way too young. She was an emerging jazz star in New York. Beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKKVo-57EBU
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 10:51 AM

Dude, First off, you say you have students, and yet you are not even capable of posting a link here that we can see,instead of having to navigate away from Pianoworld. like this for example..

You reckon this lass is "hot" my god your standards are low, I wouldnt touch her with yours.

Are you married to a Hairy female Russian wrestler?

And she has a bald patch on her head ( hence the leo sayer cap)

I am genuinly sorry though that the jazz killed her, I wouldnt wish that on anyone including your good self, and have tried to warn people about the detrimental effects of jazz on ones health.

Now that you have given us an example of "Death by jazz" can we agree to disagree, whilst hating jazz myself personally, even I didnt realise it was fatal for the less than plain janes.
Posted by: knotty

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 11:47 AM

Perhaps time to lock this thread.
It's one thing to start a hate thread, quite another to mock the death of a young woman.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 12:20 PM

get a grip dude, wizeman actually said "This girl IS hotter than any you will ever date" Not was hotter, see the difference? (present and past tense)

As she is dead, he was claiming that I would be unable to date anyone hotter than a dead girl. OR saying that he thinks dead girls are hot, how do I know what is going through his mind?

Death comes to us all like it or not, its no big deal, no one checks out alive.

Monty python did it with "allways look on the bright side of life" are you suggesting some jazz pianist is more important than christ?

A hate thread it is not, what does that trendy "buzzword" amount to anyways, and where does it actually count except in some USA sitcom.

I am entitled to "hate jazz" I dont hate jazz musicians per se nor do I hate anyone personally, the thread is not about hatred in and of itself, just my hatred of jazz,

Or are you advocating censorship of free speech? isnt that written into your constitution?

Dont like what someone says, censor them?

Mock the dead, they care not, why should you?


Posted by: Exalted Wombat

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 12:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
..are you suggesting some jazz pianist is more important than christ?


Oh, absolutely. Enormously more important. After all, Jazz pianists EXIST...

(That's killed this thread. I hope:-)
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 12:37 PM


Here is kai from lexx explaining what the dead dont care about

Posted by: 1RC

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 01:23 PM

As someone who's curiously exploring jazz, this thread's been a great source of discovery. I enjoyed that Shimrit Shoshan link Wizeman, that's some beautiful playing and for what it's worth she IS quite nice to look at smile

If we can get the meanness out and stick to humour and music this thread has value yet.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: 1RC
As someone who's curiously exploring jazz,

If we can get the meanness out and stick to humour and music this thread has value yet.


well said dude, I wasnt the one who started being mean, but in the interests of polite gentlemanly conduct, I will be the first to stop pretending to be mean. Hows that for a gesture of goodwill?

Excellent, and moving on, you say you are "jazz curious"

(a.) Do your parents know yet?
(b.) Should we keep it a secret till your certain?

Oh two quick questions.....

Question number one; "Am I allowed to mock Hitler? If so, is this only before his demise or afterwards as well?

And second question, (Which happened to be my original question)

Just why do I hate jazz?

No one has offered up a suitably believable explanation as yet,

If some one had said ( for example)


"Rossy, you hate jazz because you are a brain dead non-musically minded retarded inbred moronic inadequate excuse for a human being"

Then, of course I could have understood it, but they didnt, they got personal instead and attacked my character flaws.
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 04:39 PM

Rossy, I think it has been established that you don't "hate" jazz. You dislike it and aren't really interested in getting to know it any better than your exposure to it, to-date.

I don't see why this is such an onerous question niggling at your mind, ..... I don't like heavy metal.
I could say I hate it, but I don't think I want to give it that much energy.
Do I need to explain or justify why I don't like it? I think not.

I think the issue is that lots and lots of people like jazz and have difficulty understanding why someone might not like it and are determined to convince you (or me, or anyone) that this dislike is unreasonable. Fewer people are as passionate about heavy metal...at least in my experience.

Some things are like raw oysters. With practice you can develop an appreciation for them. Unlike raw sea urchins. No amount of encouragement would ever convince me to have a second try at those!

I don't much like orange either. I mean, I like oranges, but I don't particularly care for the colour. I don't get a lot of people telling me that this is wrong, and something I should work at.

I guess jazz, in whatever form you choose to examine it, just doesn't appeal to you. Jazz is your sea urchin. Maybe even your orange sea urchin.

Perhaps you don't like the unpredictability of jazz (some jazz). Perhaps you feel it clashes with your inner harmony. Perhaps there is something about certain note combinations that just physically grates on your nerves.

There are times when I too feel this way about some types of jazz. I always feel this way about heavy metal music. Orange rarely causes much distrubance to my psyche. I can't discuss the sea urchins, sorry.

Now, if you somehow feel that by not liking jazz you are missing out on something... that might be a thing to look into and work on, but as far as I can tell... that's not the case.

Let it go Grasshopper, acknowledge that jazz is your orange sea urchin. Let it go.

Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 04:51 PM

Hya Cas long time no hear, so, in a nutshell you dont like hari krishna types because of the orange garb they allways wear?

And what you are saying is that JAZZ is my personal Hari krishna annoyance?

Wow, never thought of it like that before they allways seemed so friendly and loving..
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 04:55 PM

Twist my words.......sigh....;)
Posted by: piano joy

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 05:52 PM

It's simple.

Rossy, I am guessing....you "hate jazz" because it doesn't speak to your soul.


Next question....
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 07:55 PM

hey guys, I'll be posting up a new jazz pianist/musician video every day here, so people can get a taste of what jazz really is.

as for the Rostoman, his comments are getting too absurd. Like I said, he's got some serious personal issues unrelated to jazz or music to work out. And I don't care either way if he hates jazz or never likes it. he's just one pea in a pod.

There's enough jazz lovers and curious people that want to explore and listen to it. Lots of new, fresh, inspiring musicians out there making their mark. And old ones mastering the craft.

Let's switch the focus onto the good stuff!
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 08:00 PM

Here's Jamie Cullum from the UK. More pop than jazz now, but he definitely has the spirit, and I love how he turns the piano into a percussive instrument. What do you guys think of him?

Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 08:05 PM

hey Rosto, were you bullied as a kid? You have the classic passive-aggressive behaviour and seem quite sensitive when people question you. It could be a reaction to things that have happened in your past.

Your lack of empathy, especially towards a young girl who passed away too suddenly shows a coldness in your heart that is alarming. saying that jazz killed her really is over the top.
you must be a big hit with the ladies I reckon.
Posted by: tangleweeds

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 08:17 PM

Originally Posted By: rnaple
We got a couple "gentlemen" who have been here less than a month. They're posting destruction.

Gotta say, this is the detail which has has been foremost in my mind in observing the revival of this thread.

With insufficient context, interpretations can get bizarre... esp. when the local trickster is involved.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 08:31 PM

And saying that I don't know how to post a video has no correlation to my musical skills. I wonder why you didn't bother to even show me, seeing as you're the resident expert on the piano forums. Hey, if you need some piano lessons though I'd be happy to help. Might have to charge you extra seeing as you're a "special" case.
Posted by: BeccaBb

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/08/12 11:24 PM

Who's the sock puppet?
Posted by: SirHuddlestonFudd

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 02:48 AM

I dare you not to like "Salt Peanuts."
Posted by: Stephen300o

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 05:19 AM

Originally Posted By: SirHuddlestonFudd
I dare you not to like "Salt Peanuts."


Prefer roasted.
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 06:18 AM

I would also class myself as a person who dislikes jazz, however, I love trad stuff, there is a great British trumpeter, been around for years, called Kenny Ball, Honky-Tonk Train Blues and a lot, though not all, 12 Bar stuff, would never EVER miss The Oscar Peterson Piano Party and I am a fan of the saxamaphone playing of that all-time great, Lisa Simpson.

What I actively dislike (believe it or not, almost to a point where it makes me actually feel physically sick!) is the modern habit, where a combinatuion of various chords comprising mainly intervals of a tone and a half are meandered about on a keyboard by a self-proclaimed "Jazz Pianist". Where is the MUSIC?

Having said that I turned Art Tatum off recently, yeah, clever... but unrestful, the tune it proclaimed itself to be, I have forgotten the title, was virtually unrecognisable, Ok, some like it.

I don't.
(OH, YEAH, I CAN PLAY THE SCALE OF C MAJOR AND WAS DOING SO BEFORE MANY HERE WERE EVEN BORN! FACT!!)

As for peanut envy, I ain't even going there.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 06:30 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
hey guys, I'll be posting up a new jazz pianist/musician video every day here, so people can get a taste of what jazz really is.


Oh deary me, and I had agreed to stop pretending to be mean as a gesture of goodwill , and now we will get punished every day ad infinitum.

This was a thread where people could "come out" and publicly admit they didnt like jazz too,, a very brave and noble thing to do.

There allready is a thread for the jazz buffs to post in its called "jazz study group two" (the sequel)

Becca, I dont know who the sock puppet is.

I prefer my peanuts when they are bought in the supermarket and not in a bar of a jazz club, I am allergic to those.

Wizeman, you are so correct. I was bullied as a kid, by a jazz musician with an unmuted trumpet, every where I went he followed me blowing his trumpet in my ear unexpectedly, for ages and ages, Not only did it make me jump out of my skin, it made my ears bleed, and once he played 3,800 notes in a row with no discernable melody .

He had reached what is known as the "jazz pinnacle" of his career, and had just learnt of a man in New orleans whom it was said could play 3,942 notes in a row with no discernable melody,

He was gutted, and knowing he was on the way to being down and out, took it out on me.

I was just four years old, and at this tender age I began developing my jazz related personality disorder which I have nurtured to this day.

It might also have made me frightened of Hari krishna types with bells and cymbals as the melodic content of that racket is also dubious.

Maybe the only good thing to come out of the pre pubescent "jazz bullying" episodes, was that I learned the difference between a Radio and a jazz musician very early on in life.

For those that are unsure, You can switch a radio off easily.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:00 AM

dOn't forget that the without jazz, we'd be still dancing polkas and jigs, ultimately artist like the beatles, pink floyd, bruce springsteen, bob dylan, rolling stones, tom waits, wouldnt't exist if it weren't for buddy bolden or jelly roll morton et al
you might not like jazz in it's current state but jazz and blues also represent emancipation of a whole people so i think some respect would be in order..
I'd like to see you diss this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9FZMHNhJ80 beetwen the wars 10000+ black people were lynched in the south
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:29 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
jazz and blues also represent emancipation of a whole people so i think some respect would be in order..
I'd like to see you diss this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9FZMHNhJ80 beetwen the wars 10000+ black people were lynched in the south


DUDE, that is totally illogical to play the "Black card" on me of all people. And it doesnt make any sense at all.

I was born and brought up in Hull, ( check with wayne33yrs another yorkie)

If you know your history, William wilberforce was also a Hull lad, and as a lad myself I was regularly taken to Wilberforce House/museum.

willberforce spent the majority of his adult life till his death in abolishing slavery, and the museum is a testament to his work,

Once seen ( especially as a kid) is never forgotten.

BUT, Your logic is flawed, my dislike (hatred) of jazz does not in anyway make me responsible or disrespectfull of what went on in the south of your country.

Thats akin to saying, If I dislike Jewish music then I am a "holocaust deniar"

Ridiculous argument. As an aside I love klezmer and have posted a few links on RST since I found out about it...

like this one for instance... totally melodic, unlike jazz.



Posted by: rnaple

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
dOn't forget that the without jazz, we'd be still dancing polkas ...


Oh please! Don't mention poxxxs! I would start a: I hate Poxkxs thread." Except I can't stand the sound of the name. They are as bad as Patsy Cline!

Ok here ya go Rossy...
You hate Jazz because you aren't taking the right medication. Try getting your doctor to prescribe: Rimadyl, Ritalyn, Prozac, or any of the other amphetamines they prescribe to children these days. You could also try changing your diet. High sugar content. Lots of caffeine. Can substitute diet pills for coffee. Be sure to drink plenty of energy drinks...the kind they say will kill you.
Warning...Don't get this stuff near your Basset Hound. He will never forgive you.
If you follow my advise. You will love jazz.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:43 AM

Rnaple, sorry we posted at the same time...

Great advice as usual though.

The last time i went to the chemist with my prescription, I traded it in for a "pick and mix" but even that didnt help, I tried a quick listen to miles davies and promptly threw up half my meds and lost them.

while I was posting my previous post, I just got bitten by a damn horse fly ( no kidding) and now have a big bump on my arm, showing that even talking about jazz may be detrimental to my health.

Now I have to go google whats the best thing for a horse fly bite to sooth it? I did know but its been so long I have forgotten.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
jazz and blues also represent emancipation of a whole people so i think some respect would be in order..
I'd like to see you diss this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9FZMHNhJ80 beetwen the wars 10000+ black people were lynched in the south


DUDE, that is totally illogical to play the "Black card" on me of all people. And it doesnt make any sense at all.

I was born and brought up in Hull, ( check with wayne33yrs another yorkie)

If you know your history, William wilberforce was also a Hull lad, and as a lad myself I was regularly taken to Wilberforce House/museum.

willberforce spent the majority of his adult life till his death in abolishing slavery, and the museum is a testament to his work,

Once seen ( especially as a kid) is never forgotten.

BUT, Your logic is flawed, my dislike (hatred) of jazz does not in anyway make me responsible or disrespectfull of what went on in the south of your country.

Thats akin to saying, If I dislike Jewish music then I am a "holocaust denier"

Ridiculous argument. As an aside I love klezmer and have posted a few links on RST since I found out about it...

like this one for instance... totally melodic, unlike jazz.





then give it it's proper due, i don't see the reason for your self indulgement on this topic. 1000s of people have worked insanely hard on developing musical skils with little hope of ever being able to support themself economically by doing the thing they love just to have some charlatan rack down on them...
you dislike jazz, that's fine but why do you have to make fun of us?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
1000s of people have worked insanely hard on developing musical skils with little hope of ever being able to support themself economically by doing the thing they love just to have some charlatan rack down on them...
you dislike jazz, that's fine but why do you have to make fun of us?


Key word "insanely hard" yes I agree it is insane to work this hard on jazz.

I am not making fun of you or anyone on a personal level, I am expressing my Legitimate right to hate jazz.

I have the right to hate it do I not?

I have the right to express that , its called FREE SPEECH!

Or are you against free speech?

Didnt you ever hear any one say "I have a dream?"

Well, I too have a dream, I have a dream and in that dream, there is a world where I dont ever get to hear jazz, not on telly, not on the radio, not in pubs, and not in supermarkets when I am shopping.

I am entitled to my dream.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:23 AM

Keep dreaming dude.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:23 AM

you didn't answer my question
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:25 AM

KlinkKlonk, forget about this dude. He's got issues that go way beyond jazz.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk

you dislike jazz, that's fine but why do you have to make fun of us?

z.

I am not making fun of you or anyone on a personal level, I am expressing my Legitimate right to hate jazz.


Klinkklonk, I did answer your question, but all those nights in dark jazz clubs may have affected your eyesight, so I have made the answer bold for you to see it more easily.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:34 AM

If it's good enough for the President to pick her, it's good enough for you.



She's awesome.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:40 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
KlinkKlonk, forget about this dude. He's got issues that go way beyond jazz.


How do you know how far my "issues" go?
Have you been peeping through my bedroom window again?

"If its good enough for the president its good enough for you?"

We dont all bow and scrape to some USA president in the UK, neither do we believe a word they say, puppets all of them.

Understood now Becca, sock puppet.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:43 AM


What is jazz? She knows...


Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
[quote=KlinkKlonk]
you dislike jazz, that's fine but why do you have to make fun of us?

z.

I am not making fun of you or anyone on a personal level, I am expressing my Legitimate right to hate jazz.


but why? why mock something alot of people around here is extremely passionate about?
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

We dont all bow and scrape to some USA president in the UK, neither do we believe a word they say, puppets all of them.


You will bow down to the true Master...
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:48 AM

I agree with her, jazz is indeed nothing but sole.

Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:54 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk


but why? why mock something alot of people around here is extremely passionate about?


Like I said, the dude's got issues. Real musicians don't denigrate certain styles because they don't like it. I like some and don't like others but don't go around bashing any. To spend years perfecting a craft and showing emotional honesty, that's something the Rosto dude knows nothing about.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 08:59 AM

hey Rosto you got any real music other than those crappy videos on your youtube page?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk


but why? why mock something alot of people around here is extremely passionate about?


Like I said, the dude's got issues. Real musicians don't denigrate certain styles because they don't like it. I like some and don't like others but don't go around bashing any. To spend years perfecting a craft and showing emotional honesty, that's something the Rosto dude knows nothing about.


Absolutely untrue, your arrogance is ruling your logic, there are many many "Real musicians" here on these forums, and many have often said they cannot stand "house" or "dubstep" Or "rave" type music in general.

To some it gives them a pain in the head, and they are not frightened of saying so, this is because they are allowed free speech, something you are singularly failing to grasp, Do you come from a communist country? where you born under Stalins regime?

"real musicians" hold many differing views on many many different genres of music and often state those views.

Dude you would be well advised not to presume you have the right to determine who is or who is not a "real musician" especially here on these threads.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:21 AM

you still haven't answered my question, and am I right to assume you recognize the cultural and social importance of jazz?
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:21 AM

What exactly qualifies you to be a "real musician"? Do you teach, perform, sing, offer your services to a church, charity or religious group, made someone smile or cry with your music, play from the heart?

I seriously wonder how much effort you've spent practicing or even playing. You've got a video showing endless track loops synced to a train where a computer did all the work.

I mean do you even play the piano?!!

All the stuff you write doesn't even have any musical relevance. You can't even get the proper jazz terminology correct. What I presume about you has indeed proven to be right.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:37 AM

Here's exhibit A: Rosto hijacking a thread and insulting the poster simply because it's "jazz".

www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1923893/Re:%20How%20To%20Get%20Started%20Learnin.html#Post1923893

This isn't merely exercising your free speech about not liking jazz. This is a deliberate attempt to undermine a musician on this forum who is trying to help others learn jazz with some free advice.

So tell me again Rosto, are you a real musician or not?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:41 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
What exactly qualifies you to be a "real musician"? Do you teach, perform, sing, offer your services to a church, charity or religious group, made someone smile or cry with your music, play from the heart?




None of the above makes anyone a "real musician" by default. A "real musician" will make music Regardless of the above, because they have to, they cannot help it, they do it anyway, they know nothing else.

But, I could not say what makes someone a "real musician", I will leave that to you, but again be warned, on these forums you will be treading a dangerous path.



Computers do not "make music " my friend, people do, This statement shows you have no inkling of the work involved, I suggest you do not go over to the DP part of the forums and state that particular view unless you want to be laughed at mercilessly.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:45 AM

Rosto it's quite clear you aren't even a wannabe musician, let alone a real musician.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:51 AM

Wizenedmump, just state your definition of what a "real musician" is and then state your definition of what a "wannabe musician" is, right here for the record,

And then I can go away back to tending my horse fly bite safe in the knowledge that you have shot yourself in the foot publicly.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:52 AM

Best you quit now and change course, lest you contract the deadly "jazzitis" disease. Wait I think you may have it and there is no cure!! except for a full immersion 24/7 starting from Art Tatum, the Marsalis' King Keith Jarrett, Hippy Herbie Hancock and the Ol' Oscar Peterson. Throw in the Prince of Miles Davis and Smooth Bill Evans.

Only then will your immune system learn to suppress the power that is jazz.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Wizenedmump, just state your definition of what a "real musician" is and then state your definition of what a "wannabe musician" is, right here for the record,



As they say, if you need to ask... Game recognizes Game, and you ain't Game G.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Wizenedmump, just state your definition of what a "real musician" is and then state your definition of what a "wannabe musician" is, right here for the record,

And then I can go away back to tending my horse fly bite safe in the knowledge that you have shot yourself in the foot publicly.


Again....
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:02 AM

Post a video of your best playing and we'll have a vote to see if you are a real musician or not. Proof is in the pudding as they say. You game or you scared? Man up.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:09 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Post a video of your best playing and we'll have a vote to see if you are a real musician or not.


lol, absolutely hilarious, EVERYONE here knows that it is impossible to get a video of "Your best playing"

when you play your "best" you are not videoing it, OR when you do switch on the video you dont play your best, 101 stuff really.

Anyways, stop Pm ing me with offers of tickets, I am washing my hair this Tuesday and cannot go to Ronnie scots with you,wednesday I am busy too.

Friday is out because I have to mind the cat for an auntie.

saturday and sunday I am mowing the lawn and doing gardening for an elderly lady who is deserving because she pays well.

have you got the message yet? I am not interested in going out with you.

Jeez.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:13 AM

Answer these questions. When was the last time you:

-performed for an audience
-wrote a composition or improvisation
-taught a student
-shared your music
-played with a child-like mind
-got excited discovering a new artist
-supported and saw live music
-listened and tried to learn something from a better musician

From your answers we'll see if you are a real musician or not. I'll be expecting them promptly.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
you still haven't answered my question, and am I right to assume you recognize the cultural and social importance of jazz?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:16 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Answer these questions. When was the last time you:


-played with a child-like mind


From your answers we'll see if you are a real musician or not. I'll be expecting them promptly.




Is this a prerequisite for playing jazz?
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Answer these questions. When was the last time you:

-performed for an audience
-wrote a composition or improvisation
-taught a student
-shared your music
-played with a child-like mind
-got excited discovering a new artist
-supported and saw live music
-listened and tried to learn something from a better musician

From your answers we'll see if you are a real musician or not. I'll be expecting them promptly.




- why should anyone answer your daft questions?

...and who is 'we' in your enquiry?
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky

lol, absolutely hilarious, EVERYONE here knows that it is impossible to get a video of "Your best playing"



have you heard of youtube dude? Some pretty damn good playing there. Who's "EVERYONE". Speak for yourself dude. Just cause you suck when the camera's on doesn't mean other people do.

Ok, show me a video of your worst playing then. And no computer sync overdub 5 track song. Just you and the piano. If you can't even do that then what exactly are you doing on a piano forum.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
you still haven't answered my question, and am I right to assume you recognize the cultural and social importance of jazz?


No you are not right to assume this.

I do however recognise the cultural and social importance of Jazz to other people.

But to me, in my culture it has no place and it has no social importance, as none of the people I socialise with like it either, if they did, I would not be socialising with them often, and definately not at nightime when it may be nearest.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:22 AM

Originally Posted By: dire tonic


- why should anyone answer your daft questions?

...and who is 'we' in your enquiry?



Who is daft, you or your duck?

When I say "we" I mean the powers of the universe that preside over all musical and spiritual knowledge.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:25 AM

Rosto you chicken hawk. You all talk and no walk. I bet you can't even harmonize "happy birthday"
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:33 AM

Dude, be my guest, go away ( not too far in case you cannot find your way back) and do a jazz impro on happy birthday, in fact dress up like marylin monroe herself and do a jazz impro on happy birthday for your beloved president.

But please no more Pm's asking me to dinner at Ronnie scots, I am not going and do not have to explain why I am hetrosexual to you or anyone else, as lady ga ga said " I was born this way"

Pleading with me over and over is degrading, like I said, I feel confident that you will find a partner for yourself one day, one that shares your unnatural love of jazz and other things, have you tried in the local jazz clubs yet?
Posted by: wayne33yrs

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:33 AM

This is like the return of Clayts with some mis-guided education...

wink
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:36 AM

Or with added punctuation? lol.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:40 AM

Figures this guy is a chicken. won't even post a video up to share his music. Don't flatter yourself, my dog wouldn't go out with you.

This dude is a classic narcissist, notice how he never asks for advice or humbly suggests anything.

He only loves one thing, the sound of his voice. I sure wouldn't want to be you in real life my friend. Peace out homeboy. We DONE.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
you still haven't answered my question, and am I right to assume you recognize the cultural and social importance of jazz?


No you are not right to assume this.

I do however recognise the cultural and social importance of Jazz to other people.

But to me, in my culture it has no place and it has no social importance, as none of the people I socialise with like it either, if they did, I would not be socialising with them often, and definately not at nightime when it may be nearest.


the rythm of jazz and the backbeat changed all popular music forever. the music is african americanised, there's no escaping that fact. i agree with you that other genres are just as important and takes just as much skill and intelligence to conceptualize. if the music has a message and urgency it will move people regardless,

just out of curiousity, what do you think of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uRnvMwD6jM
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 01:52 PM

I looked at the clip Klinkklonk, I watched till 1.43 seconds... My opinion on jazz is flawed so I cannot comment on the music itself,
However,

I ask that you just look at the girl in the audience who can be seen from approx 52 seconds in...

she is just to the left of the stylophone player.......

Just look at her face, is this the face of someone having a good time? I suggest not, in other words if you had a girlfriend who used that expression just after coitus, you would be left feeling inadequate.

then look at the guy to her immediate left, he has gone to sleep !

they say a picture paints a thousand words...........
Posted by: Scott Coletta

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 01:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Didnt you ever hear any one say "I have a dream?"

Well, I too have a dream, I have a dream and in that dream, there is a world where I dont ever get to hear jazz, not on telly, not on the radio, not in pubs, and not in supermarkets when I am shopping.

I am entitled to my dream.


My dream is that someday we can all recognize that we are not separate from each other. Here is a quote...

“The ultimate metaphysical secret, if we dare to state it so simply, is that there are no boundaries in the universe. Boundaries are illusions, products not of reality but of the way we map and edit reality. And while it is fine to map out the territory, it is fatal to confuse the two.” - Ken Wilber

We human beings are part of the universe. We should look deeply into what it means to be a "being". If we can find our true selves... the consciousness of our being... that which is present in everything, we can recognize that we are everything and everything is us. Our sense of separation dissolves and we are left with peace, understanding, and compassion for all beings. Boundaries are useful in helping us navigate our interpretation of reality, but if we believe those boundaries are real, we will believe that we are separated and we'll feel insecure. Ironically, when we feel insecure, we defend or support ourselves by establishing more boundaries... this is good, this is bad, I love this, I hate that. This of course only serves to perpetuate the problem.

We are all guilty of this. We owe it to ourselves to wake up and find a way out of this mess. Because deep down, we are all the same. We all have needs and we all want to feel secure and be happy, yet we are all suffering. Let's stop adding to the suffering.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 02:06 PM

Scott, I hear what you are saying dude and I have taken enough Lsd in my time to believe you are correct, but I have a personality disorder that manifests itself worse when I hear jazz.

I think my mam had a classical womb rather than one of these new fangled jazzy types of womb that modern women are opting for, blame it on sex in the city i say.
Posted by: KlinkKlonk

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 02:21 PM

the audience is english what do you expect, however I'm still convinced there has to be a way to get you to at least appreciate what jazz musicians are all about, considered the common rythmn and blues roots it shares with rock. if you like rock
Posted by: eNOTEquest

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 02:43 PM

You guys realize Rosto-whatever is owning you all by stroking his ego on an internet website under the guise of "hating jazz" right?
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 02:51 PM

no human being owns another human being, anyways I thought you said you were done?
yep you are suspected of being the same person.
Posted by: rnaple

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 09:03 PM

Uh oh...! Over four hours and nothing on this thread.

What happened, Rossy?
Did you Basset Hound get tired of posting arguments with a fake ID for discussions sake?
You know that dog is smarter than all of us.
Posted by: Elkayem

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/09/12 11:25 PM

Originally Posted By: WiZeM@N
Here's exhibit A: Rosto hijacking a thread and insulting the poster simply because it's "jazz".

www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1923893/Re:%20How%20To%20Get%20Started%20Learnin.html#Post1923893

This isn't merely exercising your free speech about not liking jazz. This is a deliberate attempt to undermine a musician on this forum who is trying to help others learn jazz with some free advice.

So tell me again Rosto, are you a real musician or not?


For reference, here is a clickable link to the thread referred to above: Link to thread

I am with WiZeM@N on this one. I am a fairly new member on this forum, and came to the ABF looking for tips on how to learn to play jazz. I was really appreciative of Steve's post, since he had some nice free material. Then I saw Rotosky's and thought "what a jerk". Totally inappropriate. Of course Steve was far too polite to call Rotosky on it.

The more I think about this "why I hate jazz" thread, the more it irritates me. Rotosky is spewing nothing but vitriol and hostility at jazz and jazz musicians and pretending like it is only humor. I personally don't find any of it funny, and can understand WiZeM@N getting offended. Many people devote their lives to this art and make their living this way, and certainly don't need Rotosky's help tearing it down. Many of us also deeply enjoy listening to it and want to keep this art alive, and this thread does not help.

Lets keep the Piano Forum a friendly place for jazz musicians and fans and not contribute any more anti-jazz nonsense to this thread or this forum.
Posted by: WiZeM@N

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 02:59 AM

Elkayem, Amen!!! Glad to see people get it and call a spade a spade.
Posted by: Tribbs

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 12:21 PM

What "Rostosky" doesn't realize is that there is a cosmic ray out there with his name on it.
Posted by: Rostosky

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 01:06 PM

From the "alleged land of the free" cometh the law, "Thou must not hate jazz" closely followed by "Thou must not say thy hateth jazz"

However, if you love jazz there is a thread or three for you specifically. One is called Jazz study group two ( the sequel) but you chose of your own free will to come to one where the premise is not liking jazz to the point of hating it.

If you can come here to a thread where The premise is NOT liking jazz to the point of hating it,but post how much you love it then why cant I go to thread where the premise is loving jazz, and say i hate it.

Double standards. You cant have it both ways .


free speech is about not liking someones viewpoint, but defending their right to hold that viewpoint.

I would defend your right to say you love jazz on this thread.
Posted by: casinitaly

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 01:28 PM

Nicely said Rossy.

It seems to me that those who are being truly hateful are some new arrivals who don't understand how to play nicely in the forums, don't understand how to make a point without throwing about personal insults.

This isn't in the spirit of the ABF, nor is it in the spirit of what this thread was about: the "hate" tag in the title isn't about nastiness - please guys (I assume guys, I could be wrong) don't try to paint it that way.
Posted by: tangleweeds

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 01:38 PM

Originally Posted By: casinitaly
It seems to me that those who are being truly hateful are some new arrivals who don't understand how to play nicely in the forums, don't understand how to make a point without throwing about personal insults.

This isn't in the spirit of the ABF, nor is it in the spirit of what this thread was about:

Thanks for putting it so well. I couldn't agree more.
Posted by: BB Player

Re: why do I hate jazz? - 09/10/12 02:23 PM

Rather than take the time to delete all of the nonsense and meanness that's been posted on this thread I'll just close it with a warning that if you can't find it in yourself to be civil your stay here will be short lived.