PianoForAll

Hello,

Has anyone ever tried the piano for all method? Does it teach you how to play piano by ear? Is it only learning how to play in the key of "C"?

Thank you,
ChazG

www.pianoforall.com

I have only tried the course for a couple of days, but I will absolutely recommend it, especially for beginners, but also for more advanced beginners. It does not especially teach you to play by ear, but it can be useful for that. I have not checked, but i am pretty sure you learn to play in all keys.
Piano For All can teach you to play in any and all the styles you want, just pick and choose. Everything is explained very clearly and in great detail. That should be very useful also for people who are at a very advanced level in one style of music, and want to learn something new.
My own weakest point is reading music (just love improvisation), and that has improved considerably in just two days.

Hello cubop,

You just got the course? Thanks for the information. I plan on ordering this program; and it is a good price for much information.

ChazG

Yes, I got the course, and for the price its a steal. Good luck.

I'm pretty sure the course has music in all keys and isn't aimed just a the key of C. Worth trying out as playing by ear is a good method to learn too.

You mean there are other keys than C...?

Just kidding...

My favorite "by-ear" key is F. It matches my singing voice pretty well. I'm learning to play in all the keys, but there are certain keys that I'm more familiar with. All the different keys have similarities as far as music theory is concerned.

Happy playing!

Rick

I am going to go ahead and order pianoforall. I emailed Robin Hall, creator of the piano method, and he responded that I should be able to achieve what I want to do - play piano by ear in time. He mentioned by the last book you get into more keys with scale and arpeggio practice.

Rickster,

yes, I like the key of "F" too for singing. I know there are certain common keys that people play for singing; but I am not sure which keys. I am very sure that the key of "C" is one.

Thanks,
ChazG

Is this advertising ?

Hello Ina,

No, we are just expressing our views. I just ordered the pianoforall program yesterday. I looked over it today; and it contains alot of information on different ways to play patterns in every style.

Thank you,
ChazG

Any up dates on people who used and stayed with this program?

Hi Mark,

I just came across this by accident. I'm a beginner and this sounds too good to be true. I am 60 yrs of age and trying to teach myself.
Would you be kind enough to keep me posted on this course ? I would love to hear about peoples experience with this product.
I am currently waiting for the new version of the piano and keyboard method by eMedia.

Any advice is appreciated.

Vincent

I currently do not use this program. It seems to a good one and very inexpensive. I brought this up to see if anyone did this program and actually stayed with it, as well as the overall results.

We always hear about these "great" programs, but very seldom see people who complete them...

"Piano For All" is a real bargain.

I purchased it many years ago and picked up many tips and tricks from it.

Sadly after we moved a while back, I can no longer find the CD to reinstall. (Robin ... you listening)

Just go to the website and watch the video, to get a taste of what's covered in the course.

Just contact Robin (dannac.) I've contacted him a few times and he has always replied quickly. Once because I found out I had forgotten to download one of the books. He gave me a link so I could download any book, video and mp3 file of the course.

http://pianoforall.com/contact-us/

The program is quite good. It gives an insight into how the various rhythms and chord progressions are used in popular music.

It sounds awesome. When I sit down and try to learn a piece it
takes me days and weeks of playing the same piece day after day.

Please tell me how it works. Do you have to sit at a piano to do it or do you do everything on the computer and it stays in you brain when you sit at the piano. Please explain.

When you say it can teach you to play in any and all styles. What are you referring to as styles. Can you name some styles because I don't know what you mean because I am a beginner.

How does the program teach you to read music. I only know to put a piece of music on the piano and play and read the music many hundreds of times. HOw does it work so quickly.

The only way I know to do improvisation is to learn all the keys, all the chords which is taking me many years as a beginner. Do you even need a piano and use just a laptop. Help me as a beginner. Thanks.

Michael_99, I'm no different than you in that it has taken me weeks, sometimes months, to learn the very few pieces I've learned and I even forget them more quickly. I'm a beginner as well.

This particular program offers no magic tricks. All Piano For All (PFA) does, is explain how to play rhythms and progressions, common to many songs. Beware that there is absolutely no sheet music given, since that would make the package more expensive, as royalties would have to be paid to the concerning artists. Still, for every rhythm covered there is a long list of songs to which that rhythm does apply, along with chord changes.

The rhythms or progressions aren't always used in the real songs in the exact way they're covered in the program, but it can give you ideas on how to improvise. In my opinion by going through the program, you can improve your musical ear, even though PFA is not publizised as an ear training course. You might even get the same information for free elsewhere, but that always takes time and time is usually money.

The best practice is always playing the piano (not the laptop) but you can use your laptop to play instruction videos or use some training software. PFA does not replace hard work, but can help you organize your practice time more efficiently.

A few examples of rhythms. The 1st major, 6th minor, 4th major and 5th major of any scale. Called Doo-wop progression. In the key of C major, C-Aminor-F-G. Try it out, should sound familiar.

Split chord. Play the top two notes together and in the next beat the bottom note. Most famous example is John's Lennon's Imagine, C - Cmaj7 - F - C progression. Actually Let It Be also uses split chords, at least some versions.

Bossa Nova Bounce. Hard to explain - Google! Song examples, The Girl From Ipanema, Daniel (Elton John), Baker Street and Fly Me To The Moon.

You got me interested... Learning patterns and chord progressions and rhythms is certainly a good way to learn most genres of piano music. I see there is even a book on classical music, well that seems a bit too much but surely there are useful skills to be learned here too?

It's a shame it asks for taxes because I am in the EU. I've never paid VAT on digital downloads.

I sent Robin a message telling him of these discussions and possibly he'll comment. The classical book contains notes for many of the popular classical pieces like Für Elise An der schönen blauen Donau, Jesu bleibt meine Freude and so on. Not the full versions though, usually simplified.

You can always buy the course digitally, sinophilia. I'm in Iceland (not in EU, but in EEA - European Economic Area) and it was no problem.

Ina,

For most of us we sit down at a piano, place a book on the stand and play. It is that simple. It is that easy. It just takes sitting at a piano to do it. Some people think there is another way to do it. Bach, Lange Lange, Chopin all had to do it that way. Billions of piano players do it that way, but there is no harm that others might think there is another way that is faster, easier to play the piano - not at a piano - but on a laptop. If it works we will read about it in the news that someone who never sat at a piano learned to play the piano. That would be news!

Just curious as to whether anyone else has noticed that in the videos of PianoForAll, Robin's piano seems to be about 1/2 step out of tune (flat)?

I'm taking the course on my digital piano with the videos presented on my laptop, and the discrepancy in tone is quite noticable.

Well you know your completely loosing the plot when you do things like I just did.

I've looked at various courses over the years, saw this thread last night, gave it another look and thought I'd give it a go.

Placed the receipt in my backup folder and saw a similar receipt, I looked at it and sure enough I'd bought it in 2011.

Think I'm going completely mad

You are not alone!

I'm sure it has a psychological effect to buy new piano material. It gives you a sense of a new start. Doesn't matter if you bought it before, if your mind thinks it's new, it has the same effect.

However, what I need to do, is use the material I've gotten before, not just let it lay there on my hard disk or shelfs.

Two things nobody mentioned a penny of how much it cost? Is the site in Paris, Turkey, San Francisco or London England? Do the vidoes have someobdy playing a piano? How can a beginner not have some music? My local music store has a huge floor of music books on jazz beginning piano, improv, scales. How is this web site so special? So you don't need a teacher, you don't need a music book, you don't need a piano, but you can learn to play the piano? I don't understand but I have brain damage and it is showing.

$39, says so on the website. The videos are short demonstrations with Robin showing in action what he's teaching. No, it's not enough to read about some playing technique or song, you have to sit down and play it. Nobody has said otherwise.

I still would like to hear from some people who have completes this program and the results. We always read about these type programs but we never seem to find anyone who graduated.

FYI - The course is presented in about 8 or 9 separate "books" which are PDF files with embedded videos and sound files which are examples of what's to be played in the lessons. There are separate books for various styles of playing (ie - blues, ballads, jazz, classical, etc). These books can be loaded onto either a computer or an iPad (or both).

Can you learn to play without a piano? - Of course not. ...And the website never claims that you can.

It's in the USA, when I just bought it, it converted to £26.38 + £5.28 VAT making it £31.66

I emailed them telling them of my mistake and got the refund conformation email within the hour so top marks.

I wanted it as a complement to my other learning. I am working through Alfred's books and also enjoying the playpianotoday course. The Alfred is more traditional and I'm learning to read music and sight read from it, the playpianotoday let's me easily play tunes that are more my style.

The playpianotoday has more on rhythms etc when improvising. There's also no music to read in it which means that I can pay attention to the rhythm and swing etc of what I'm playing, experiment with inversions and playing on different octaves.

Whereas the Alfred's books I'm concentrating on the music, taking note of when to use the pedal, when to get louder or softer etc.

Both completely different approaches and I'm enjoying them both a lot. One I'm learning to read music etc, the other I'm learning to improvise.

Reading up on pianoforall, sure I'll know lots of it, but for not much more than a lot of hardcover books cost, hopefully it will give me tips the others don't.

That is because no-one ever does. We all jump around from method to method, in hopes of getting that "best" way to learn.

The problem is ... there is no "best" way .... only different.

I have PianoForAll and it is fine. If you do everything he suggests, you will end up being a very good player.

BTW ... most courses are like that. If you do what they tell you to do you get pretty good at playing the piano.

dmd,

Well said. The $10 piano book teaches you to play the piano. Alll you have to do is to play the 60 pages and rewiew and review day after day week after week month after month. It is that simple. Learning to play the piano means sitting at the piano 3 hours a day for the rest of your life playing slowly and accurately.

I got the books... 37 Euros with taxes. I downloaded everything on my iPad and it looks great! I'm halfway through book 1 (already know lots of chords and rhythms thanks to the Alfred's books) and it's exactly the kind of approach I was looking for. Will devote 1 hour a week to this. I see it as a nice complement to my other books.

And yes... I guess we're always looking for new methods and materials... actually anything that has to do with piano is interesting for me now, so anything goes as long as it has the word "piano" in it
Personally, it's also a matter of gradually understanding what kind of player you want to be, the music you really like to make etc. So it's always work-in-progress.

BINGO !

Isn't it the truth !

Especially the part about ... SLOWLY and ACCURATELY !

It is great to see that this thread that I started has been updated. I started the Piano for All program; but I did not continue with it. Like it was mentioned, many try new programs to learn; but only for a limited time. Then, it is off to try another program. It seems that I always order play by ear programs; but I never get far with these programs to reach my goal. I am always looking to see if there something much better to order.

My main goal is to try to learn how to play piano by ear. This program helps to learn progressions taken from different genres of music. You can memorize the different progressions and apply it to piano ear playing.

This program is great for beginners just to learn rhythm patterns and experiment with many different styles of music. It is very extensive; and it takes many months of practicing all the ebooks to learn all the material.

The program can be downloaded immediately after purchase; but you can also request a CD version of all ebooks put into one file to be dowloaded.

This is one of many programs that beginners can order to start learning how to play piano by note and only be applied to an extent in playing by ear.

Some people do finish what they start. And it helps to know if a course like this (or any course) delivers. If a course is excellent it should have a good number of graduates who can demonstrate some results. It seems we see a lack of results from most if not all of these online (download) type courses.

Is it the student giving up, because it doesn't work? If a course is good, why would a dedicated student stop?

Can anyone name an online course that has turned them into a very good player?

Many of the online courses out there are the same wine in different wineskins. The question is if there are programs that can make your practice time more productive.

I quit the PFA course, but I also quit Rocket Piano. Before that I had gone through the first gmajormusictheory.org categories and I also quit that. It may look like I'm a quitter. I actually started with a teacher, but I didn't quit with him, he quitted with me. I'm not a quitter!

I believe the reason I quit with those programs or methods, has nothing to with the methods themselves, rather me. It's just that other things consumed my time, like my University studies. The Alfred's books would have ended back on the shelf as well, in my case.

>> Can anyone name an online course that has turned them into a very good player?

It is an interesting question. Let me preface my comments by saying that I have no dog in this hunt. I can see pros and cons, though I would not be a buyer of the course.

I think a good analogy is the exercise equipment advertised on TV. The TV spot makes it look so easy, the actors look great, that's why people buy. Most people that buy, use the equipment a few times and then it dawns on them the hard work needed to get significant results. Most buyers give it up without getting full use out of the equipment. The courses aren't all that different.

Like the exercise equipment, or even method books for that matter, a dedicated person will get some value out of it. I'd guess that 1% or maybe 0.1% get what might considered full value out of their purchase of TV advertised exercise equipment. However, let's not make it a federal case. The cost of the program in this thread is the same or less than most spend on a single lesson from a teacher. It isn't that big a deal either way in this case, though there are other much more expensive options out there.

The scenario painted by some, of learning only from a method book, and sitting at the bench for hours would make me give up from boredom and despair. That kind of regimen isn't for me. I prefer audio and video, as well as paper notation. Again, I would not be a buyer of the course.

Different people learn in different ways. I am sure many customers feel they got their $40 (or whatever the price is) of value out of their purchase. To expect one purchase to turn out a very good musician is a bit much.

Another analogy, I bought the book, The Musician's Way. I feel like I got my purchase price worth of value out of it, even though the book is aimed at college level music majors vs. hobbyist musicians like myself. No one expects that a single book, no matter how good, would vault me into being a very good musician. The Musician's Way book helped me in small ways, at the margins. I would guess that many people that bought the course mentioned here, and did a few lessons from it, may feel similar. That they got their money's worth out of it, but it only helped here and there.

Yet another analogy, if a person pays to go to a master's class, or a week at a music retreat, they don't expect that class, or a week, to vault to them to a much higher level. That doesn't mean those classes or retreats aren't worth the money. The attendees may find one, two, or ten tips or observations or experiences that help them on their journey.

I agree


These online courses I view just like any other book of music etc.

I read and watched the vids of the first 40 odd pages of Pianoforall in bed last night on my ipad. I learnt something that's probably very obvious to most people, but that one thing made something click into place.

I have learnt to read music over the past year and can sight read Alfreds Book 1 quite well, many at the proper speed first go. I always struggle remembering the notes when it goes above the treble staff or below the bass staff.

But I saw a particular diagram in Pianoforall last night that made it snapped into my mind that 2 lines above the treble cleff and two lines below the bass is C.

Seeing it there just made it go ping in my brain and I will never forget it and that will make my whole sight reading and music reading skills much easier in the future.

I now know instantly that the line below the bass staff is E as it's one line above the C etc.

Sure I've learnt the usual rhymes to remember the notes, but the sudden realisation about those two C's has made me realise that the bass cleff staff lines are the same notes as the treble cleff only one line down, so if something is on the bottom line of the bass, that would be the same as being on the next line up on the treble cleff, hence its a G. I'm not saying that's an ideal way to read music of course, I'm saying it's useful to know if ever my mind goes blank.

Most of the first 40 odd pages I knew already, but that one little snippit is a superb thing that Alfreds hadn't managed to display/teach in a way that worked for me to remember.

That was the only thing new I learnt from the first 40 pages, but the start of the book is aimed at beginners hence this is to be expected and I have often experienced the same thing with some very good programming books when I learnt to program many moons ago. The first few chapters told me things I already knew, but were worth reading because the odd snippet of information gave me a tip on programming I might not have realised all those other times.

I know some first class piano players that have a ton of different music books. They don't buy each book and work through it from start to end, they buy them when they catch their eye, some might not get open for months, a few not ever, others get dipped into for certain tunes etc

I know my piano playing has improved 10 fold due to the help of PlayPianoToday. It's not going to teach me to become a classical concert pianist but that's the last thing I want to be anyway.

It's little ideas that help with experimentation and improvisation. For example PlayPianoToday getting me to play say the chord of c as a broken chord but playing it as follows

C2, G2, E3

meaning I'm playing the third in the octave higher. Just that simple little thing gave me hours of experimental pleasure and watching them do it really helped too.

So yes I do think these courses are worth it if you don't think your going to be a concert pianist at the end of them.

If I reach a point where the course is not advanced enough or I'm into another course for different tips, so what, I've easily got my monies worth.

Both these courses added together cost around the same as one of my sons new released Xbox 360 games cost. And for that I have books on blues, books on gospel, books on chords, books on ballads etc.

I'm only a day into pianoforall and already its been worth it for my sight/music reading reading.

I'm a few months into PlayPianoToday and I don't regret buying it in the slightest and yes I can say with 100% certainty it has really helped improve my playing.

But, if your the sort of person that likes a traditional tutor, the traditional classical pieces etc, chances are it wont be for you.

best

Joe

I have two posts in the beginning of this thread, and I have not changed my very positive opinion of Piano for all. It should be useful for many people on ABF. But of course one needs more than one course or one book. I have not used the course for a while, and lately i have found Piano-ology extremely useful and interesting. I have mentioned it here before, and now I am even more convinced about its usefulness. And it is absolutely free. It is definitely worth taking a look at it. Especially the Youtube videos on basic pianotechnique.

Very well said, Joe.

Like you, I have both courses (Piano for all and Play Piano Today). Since I wanted to learn about improvisational playing, I find these 2 courses work well together. (I have a long way to go in each but am enjoying the journey so far.) When I reach a sticking point in one course, I switch back to the other. I find that helps with combating frustration. Whether I complete each and every lesson of each course is irrelevant, IMO. But, if I feel that I'm progressing overall, based upon the lessons I complete, I'm happy.

But, if you're looking for training on sight reading, these 2 courses are NOT it.

Audio/Video instruction may not work for others, but I like it, and I have no regrets about purchasing/using either course.

I have had a look at that- I think it looks very good- I am tempted to buy that for over the summer when my piano teacher is away- it will give me plenty to work on and also what I'd like to go more into- chords, improvising etc.

In fact this online course looks far more exciting and value for money than others I've seen.

I just need to check if quicktime is compatible with my OS ( Not on Microsoft).

The CD version is on Amazon for around $37 plus shipping...

Yeah..on a netbook so not got a driver- got the software but need to get a portable driver to plug into it. I watch DVDs on a portable DVD player ( with screen). I am guessing the DVD means one doesn't have to worry bout Quicktime then!

EdwardianPiano,
I think the CD is just a data CD that contains the pdf's and quicktime files. It's for people with slow or nonexistent internet connections who don't want to be bothered downloading the files.

Warm Regards

I would get the cd in order to put it on my desktop and laptop. Can you download the files more than one time to different machines?

I presume it has the audios though?

I think it said so Mark- check the section on his website.

I think Robin now has the videos on mp4, for iPad. They play on most computers, at least I've been able to play them on any of my computers, as well as in my TV. If you have the VLC media player, you can play them. VLC plays almost any format.

Actually I once encoded the quicktime videos to both divx-avi and mp4, among other things to be able to play them in my DVD player and plug them into the USB port on the TV. However the quality is rather poor, so they don't display well on large screens.

Edit: Yes you can download the files many times, just remember to bookmark the download link you get. I've downloaded some of my files at least twice.

I should be able to play MP4S- I'm on Linux. VLC is available for Linux as well last time I looked. Linux has myriads of available programmes to play mp3s/4s to download.

Thanks for that Pianotehead. I emailed Robin to ask him if he had any other formats. I plan to get this programme in the summer, so plenty of time to get it organised!

I just purchased this course last night, and let me say that I feel very excited about this. The course is exactly what I was looking for. Let me explain.

I am doing the Alfred series and am needing supplemental material. Ultimately, I want to do The Pop Piano Method by Mark Harrison, a 500 page digest of popular styles, and the theory behind them. Its an advanced method that I'm just not technically capable of yet. I needed a bridge, or primer to it.

And thus, Piano for All. It also looks at progressions and many of the stylistic techniques for popular genres. But, at a much less advanced level. It appears to be a great primer to use leading up to the point when I can take on Mark Harrison's method. Furthermore, it complements Alfred wonderfully. I really am very excited to do this.

Frankly I was a bit sceptical given the web sites heavy marketing lean, and use of Clickbank (known for crummy ebooks). But looking over the material, it appears there is a reason why the reviews are so positive on Amazon. It looks like a good course!

Thank you sinophilia for hipping me to it!

Good thing it works for you. Last night I opened book number two and started playing the twelve bar blues Jerry Lewis style, exercise number two I think. I found out it wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. A few years ago I had done those exercises a little bit, but I was rusty yesterday and had trouble keeping time. I mixed up, in the left hand progression I sometimes played the root instead of the third.

We should consider making a Piano For All support thread, if there are enough people who are going through the course.

I completely agree! sinophilia is hip in my book. She is a voice of reason on these forums.


I think this thread would make a good place for a support forum.

Count me in!
I recently purchased this although I have not gotten very far in it yet.

Yep, that's where I'm at! I'm half way through book one. I just did The Amazing Broken Chord Ballad. lol. So far excellent exercises to get lots of movement between octaves and positions. Good stuff.

Oh Lord, thank you!

I'm trying to play the exercises in book 1 using the chord inversions taught in the Alfred's books - it makes things a bit more difficult but more interesting.

The support thread is up.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2055671