The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread

Posted by: EdwardianPiano

The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:09 PM


I have noticed there is one for Chopin, which is great and only right, but not seen one for Beethoven.

I'd like to remedy that! After doing the Coursera course on his sonatas I now fully realise his monumental genius and cannot get enough of him. 3hearts

So where are you hiding fellow Beethovenians? smile

What Beethoven composition moves you and why? What are you listening to or playing right now?
Posted by: Music Me

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:19 PM

I will gladly join! Count me in, fellow Beethovenians! I am presently listening to the complete piano sonatas played by Alfred Brendel. I am playing Sonata Op. 49 #2. Some like referring to it as the "easy" one. I disagree. It may be easy to learn, but requires more to make it sing. Regardless, it is one of my favorites.
As for the Symphonies, I love the 9th, 2nd movement in particular.
I can't get enough of him, either.

Have you seen the film "immortal Beloved" with Gary Oldham playing Beethoven? I love it.

Thanks for starting this.
Posted by: sinophilia

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:35 PM

What a great thread! I just watched a BBC documentary on Beethoven... wonderful! (search YouTube, Charles Hazlewood)

I intend to tackle Op. 49 no. 2 next year smile
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:42 PM

Originally Posted By: sinophilia
What a great thread! I just watched a BBC documentary on Beethoven... wonderful! (search YouTube, Charles Hazlewood)

I intend to tackle Op. 49 no. 2 next year smile


The one with Paul Rhys as Beethoven? Yes I liked it too- very moving- but I think they portrayed Beethoven as more angry than he actually was. Did you like the Moonlight Sonata scene? I did!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Music Me
I will gladly join! Count me in, fellow Beethovenians! I am presently listening to the complete piano sonatas played by Alfred Brendel. I am playing Sonata Op. 49 #2. Some like referring to it as the "easy" one. I disagree. It may be easy to learn, but requires more to make it sing. Regardless, it is one of my favorites.
As for the Symphonies, I love the 9th, 2nd movement in particular.
I can't get enough of him, either.

Have you seen the film "immortal Beloved" with Gary Oldham playing Beethoven? I love it.

Thanks for starting this.


How are you getting on playing the sonata? I'm a plonkly beginner so still on one paged super easy version of Moonlight!
The symphonies are great! I also love the Egmont Overture.

Yes seen Immortal Beloved but it isn't very accurate historically though I thought Gary Oldman did a good job. Have you seen Copying Beethoven? Again not historically accurate. Have you seen the BBC docu drama on you tube?
Posted by: Music Me

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 02:58 PM

Thanks for the info. I will certainly look for the BBC docu-drama and the others. The Sonata is fine. I am working on the nuances and expressions. Although I am not an adult beginner, this is my favorite forum because I identify with all of you. Also, you all share your passion for music, for the piano. This means much more to me than the quibblings about which brand is better than another. I started piano late in life ( as some would say) I was fifteen when I started lessons. I went on to get a degree in music (piano and theory). I have played professionally in a band. Although I am no longer performing I still play and I am learning Jazz Piano which has always been a great love. I look forward to my retirement in four years so I can enjoy the catalogue of music waiting for me to learn and hopefully get to play in a jazz trio.

It is never to late to learn piano. It will keep you young, make your heart sing and give you joy. Go for it!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Music Me
I am presently listening to the complete piano sonatas played by Alfred Brendel.

1 out of 2.
Posted by: sinophilia

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

The one with Paul Rhys as Beethoven? Yes I liked it too- very moving- but I think they portrayed Beethoven as more angry than he actually was. Did you like the Moonlight Sonata scene? I did!


Yes that one! Lots of drama, yes, maybe too much. I also watched the Mozart documentary, and that was heartbreaking too. They must have had joyful moments too, these genius composers, right?!?
Posted by: Doritos Flavoured

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:15 PM

love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...

The bagatelles are not for beginners.
Posted by: dynamobt

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:25 PM

Have learned many of the Bagatelles. Really enjoyed them. Each one is a ittle gem! Now learing Piano Sontata Op 2 no 1. It's supposedly not that hard. But, it has given me fits. Learned the 3rd mvt first. That's fun. Then the 1st. That's fun now that I can play it. It took weeks to learn. Now working on mvt 2. Which is gorgeous.

And who doesn't like the Symphonies? Genius. Pure and simple
Posted by: Doritos Flavoured

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...

The bagatelles are not for beginners.


ok, middle level, then
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...

The bagatelles are not for beginners.


ok, middle level, then

Most of them are not for "middle level" either. They (the Opus 126 bagatelles especially) are very advanced pieces which require a high degree of technical mastery and control, but (more importantly) a musical maturity possessed by almost none but the best pianists.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Music Me
Thanks for the info. I will certainly look for the BBC docu-drama and the others. The Sonata is fine. I am working on the nuances and expressions. Although I am not an adult beginner, this is my favorite forum because I identify with all of you. Also, you all share your passion for music, for the piano. This means much more to me than the quibblings about which brand is better than another. I started piano late in life ( as some would say) I was fifteen when I started lessons. I went on to get a degree in music (piano and theory). I have played professionally in a band. Although I am no longer performing I still play and I am learning Jazz Piano which has always been a great love. I look forward to my retirement in four years so I can enjoy the catalogue of music waiting for me to learn and hopefully get to play in a jazz trio.

It is never to late to learn piano. It will keep you young, make your heart sing and give you joy. Go for it!


You are inspiring Barbara! Talking about Jazz have you noticed Beethoven does ragtime in sonata no.32?! wow
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: sinophilia
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

The one with Paul Rhys as Beethoven? Yes I liked it too- very moving- but I think they portrayed Beethoven as more angry than he actually was. Did you like the Moonlight Sonata scene? I did!


Yes that one! Lots of drama, yes, maybe too much. I also watched the Mozart documentary, and that was heartbreaking too. They must have had joyful moments too, these genius composers, right?!?


I watched the Mozart one too- I thought they made up the mysterious man who asked Wolfgang to write that Mass and no it really happened. Spooky.

Yes they both had joyful times- but despite Mozart dying younger I think he had more happier times than Beethoven did. At least Mozart got to marry the woman he loved.

I think they were both fascinating guys- especially Beethoven- much misunderstood as well. When you read what people who knew him said about him, despite his temper ( due to his physical sufferings mostly) it's clear that he was a great hearted person.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/14/13 11:47 PM


Here's another Beethoven question- what is your favourite or favourite portraits of him?

I like the one with the lyre- not so much the pose as he looks uncomfortable but the close up of him shows such compelling eyes and expression!
Posted by: Tararex

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...


I agree. I've learned so very much from his opus 119 - these "trifles" force learning specific technique - you can't play them otherwise. I've loved Beethoven's music for many years but since taking up piano have developed a love for the man (as weird as that sounds) because of the care taken with his teaching pieces.

I've read that his publisher considered the 119 set as trivial and beneath the master. Beethoven had to insist they be published.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

Here's another Beethoven question- what is your favourite or favourite portraits of him?

I like the one with the lyre- not so much the pose as he looks uncomfortable but the close up of him shows such compelling eyes and expression!


The photograph was invented during Beethoven's lifetime. If only they had thought to take one of him... mad
Posted by: Tararex

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 12:43 AM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

So where are you hiding fellow Beethovenians? smile

What Beethoven composition moves you and why? What are you listening to or playing right now?


Listening to his ninth symphony in its entirety always tears me up - something I rarely do. This open confession, diplomatic debate and perfect musical proof are presented undisguised to the creator - and then when we average humans are expecting a final explosion of anger at the injustice - a heavenly apparition of thanks appears. It's overwhelming.
Posted by: Michael_99

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 01:24 AM

EdwardianPiano, I have read your post, here:

Subject: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread


I have noticed there is one for Chopin, which is great and only right, but not seen one for Beethoven.

I'd like to remedy that! After doing the Coursera course on his sonatas I now fully realise his monumental genius and cannot get enough of him. 3hearts

So where are you hiding fellow Beethovenians? smile

What Beethoven composition moves you and why? What are you listening to or playing right now?

__________

You say: I have noticed there is one for Chopin, which is great and only right, but not seen one for Beethoven. I'd like to remedy that! After doing the Coursera course on his sonatas I now fully realise his monumental genius and cannot get enough of him. 3hearts So where are you hiding fellow Beethovenians? smile What Beethoven composition moves you and why? What are you listening to or playing right now?

__________

(Politely spoken) Who is out of step here - you or me! You see, I am a beginner piano player and we are in the < Adult Beginners Forum > .

I am only interested in learning classical music. I can't afford a teacher, but I am working through the John Thompson's method books and have started Book 2. I have been playing for 2 years. I thought I would not bother people about repetoire until I complete Book 3 of the John Thompson books.

However, I would be delighted to learn any classical pieces that are reasonably at my level.
If you suggest any Beethoven pieces, I will gladly rush down to the local music store and purchase the piece/pieces. If I think I can learn them, I will do that. If I think they are a bit above my level, I will gladly put them aside for another day, week, or year.

So please suggest any pieces - and I am out the door going to the music store excited about a new potential challenge.

cheers,

3B14BEET
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Tararex
Originally Posted By: Doritos Flavoured
love the guy

virtuosos focus only on the sonatas and concertos, but Beethoven was one of the few major composers who also thought of beginners. His marvelous bagatelles come to mind...


I agree. I've learned so very much from his opus 119 - these "trifles" force learning specific technique - you can't play them otherwise. I've loved Beethoven's music for many years but since taking up piano have developed a love for the man (as weird as that sounds) because of the care taken with his teaching pieces.

I've read that his publisher considered the 119 set as trivial and beneath the master. Beethoven had to insist they be published.



Loving Beethoven the man is not weird at all- he was fascinating as well as being the greatest musical genius the world has ever seen! I'm happy to hear he got Opus 119 published.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

Here's another Beethoven question- what is your favourite or favourite portraits of him?

I like the one with the lyre- not so much the pose as he looks uncomfortable but the close up of him shows such compelling eyes and expression!


The photograph was invented during Beethoven's lifetime. If only they had thought to take one of him... mad


Beethoven left the Earth in 1827- no photos then.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Tararex
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

So where are you hiding fellow Beethovenians? smile

What Beethoven composition moves you and why? What are you listening to or playing right now?


Listening to his ninth symphony in its entirety always tears me up - something I rarely do. This open confession, diplomatic debate and perfect musical proof are presented undisguised to the creator - and then when we average humans are expecting a final explosion of anger at the injustice - a heavenly apparition of thanks appears. It's overwhelming.




I am going to listen to that later! It is truly great isn't it!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 01:56 PM

Michael you can get one paged versions for beginners on 8notes (online)- free!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 02:03 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano

Here's another Beethoven question- what is your favourite or favourite portraits of him?

I like the one with the lyre- not so much the pose as he looks uncomfortable but the close up of him shows such compelling eyes and expression!


The photograph was invented during Beethoven's lifetime. If only they had thought to take one of him... mad


Beethoven left the Earth in 1827- no photos then.

Joseph Nicéphore Niépce invented the photograph in 1826, and we still have a photo from that year.
Posted by: sinophilia

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 02:04 PM

I forgot to say that this year I happened to listen to Beethoven's 1st piano concerto twice! Both times played by Martha Argerich, who seems to like it a lot and has been playing it since she was a child. First time in Ferrara conducted by Claudio Abbado, second time in Berlin conducted by Daniel Barenboim. It's a lovely concerto, although not so stormy and full of contrasts as other works. Now I must listen to the other 4 concertos played by Barenboim on YouTube.
Posted by: timmyab

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 03:28 PM

I've been working on Beethoven's 2nd cadenza for the 1st movement of the 4th piano concerto for the last few weeks.Fairly pointless in a way because I'll never be able to play the whole concerto, but I do love that cadenza.I'll have to slow it down a bit from normal though because it gets tricky where both hands are playing arpeggios.
Posted by: Ganddalf

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 04:07 PM

I'm a lover of Beethoven. Not only his piano music, but I really enjoy listening to the symphonies and the chamber music.

Throuhout the years I have played (or at least attempted to play) several of his sonatas. The last few years, however, I have put them aside, but now I'm seriously considering to re-learn at least one of them. My problem now is to choose. There are so many nice ones among the most difficult sonatas, but I think I'll have to be realistic and pick one of the less challenging ones.

Maybe I'm weird, but if I had sufficient ability and capacity I would have played the late Op.101.

In the realistic group I have Op.14/2, Op.22, Op,10/3 and with some doubt Op.2/3 and Op.31/2. I have tentatively looked at Op.22, but haven't made up my mind yet. If I ever get started......
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 07:09 PM

Originally Posted By: sinophilia
I forgot to say that this year I happened to listen to Beethoven's 1st piano concerto twice! Both times played by Martha Argerich, who seems to like it a lot and has been playing it since she was a child. First time in Ferrara conducted by Claudio Abbado, second time in Berlin conducted by Daniel Barenboim. It's a lovely concerto, although not so stormy and full of contrasts as other works. Now I must listen to the other 4 concertos played by Barenboim on YouTube.


That's nice sinophilia! I listen to Beethoven nearly all day and night! smile
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: timmyab
I've been working on Beethoven's 2nd cadenza for the 1st movement of the 4th piano concerto for the last few weeks.Fairly pointless in a way because I'll never be able to play the whole concerto, but I do love that cadenza.I'll have to slow it down a bit from normal though because it gets tricky where both hands are playing arpeggios.


Even if you can play that it is something timmyab!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Ganddalf
I'm a lover of Beethoven. Not only his piano music, but I really enjoy listening to the symphonies and the chamber music.

Throuhout the years I have played (or at least attempted to play) several of his sonatas. The last few years, however, I have put them aside, but now I'm seriously considering to re-learn at least one of them. My problem now is to choose. There are so many nice ones among the most difficult sonatas, but I think I'll have to be realistic and pick one of the less challenging ones.

Maybe I'm weird, but if I had sufficient ability and capacity I would have played the late Op.101.

In the realistic group I have Op.14/2, Op.22, Op,10/3 and with some doubt Op.2/3 and Op.31/2. I have tentatively looked at Op.22, but haven't made up my mind yet. If I ever get started......


Go for it Ganddalf!
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 07:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Ganddalf
...I have tentatively looked at Op.22...
Opus 22 is BIG and it's a blast to play but...

The real difficulties of the piece are all on the first page and if you get that done the rest is very manageable. The opening figure needs a very loose wrist and controlled fingers and the rising continuation in M3 needs flexibility with it.

Then there's M16-20. Compare M9-13 in the Moonlight Presto. The wrist rotates easily around the index finger but to get the thumb and index finger together you have to learn to rotate with the ring finger as the central axis or coordinate the thumb and index together, which is hard because the thumb doesn't actually play in the same direction. If you were pitting the thumb against any other two fingers it would be a simple tremolo.

The difficulty I have is that the opening figure can't be played slowly so it dictates the speed of the rest of the piece in practise and M16-20 can't be played fast without a long time working on the passage before hand. I find this a lot with Beethoven - even though I can play it from memory it has to be practised for a few weeks first. This doesn't happen with anything I've done from Chopin or Liszt. I think this may be why Beethoven is considered not to be 'pianistic'.

But hey, get page one done and the rest is a matter of time! smile
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 07:58 PM

Well I don't know what pianistic means but Beethoven sounds harder!
Posted by: Ataru074

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/15/13 08:04 PM

I have the impossible ( for now ) urge of playing op 110... I can read through the first movement quite well, the "minor" issue is that I can't take it emotionally... I have a lot of memories linked to this sonata and it's quite involving... :-\.. I'll start Woo80 as soon as I'm done with the Brahms piece, as preparation for the latest sonatas.... From playing this and that around, I have to admit that working on Bach, Beethoven and Brahms is enough for a lifetime of musical joy.
Posted by: Cassiesmom

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 01:27 AM

Great thread smile I'm a big Beethoven Fan. I wanted to do the Jonathan Biss Class, but my (OLD) computer gets hung up on videos... another time.

One of the first pieces my teacher assigned when I restarted this year was the Op.49. no 1. I was thrilled it was a Sonata :), albeit one of the "easy ones. I know some folks think it's rather uninteresting but I enjoyed it.

I enjoy listening to his symphonies (The 9th is my all time favorite work-i'm Never tired of it). I also like the chamber works as well as the piano repertoire. I still have a lot of learn and appreciate though.. for me it takes MANY listenings of works to really enjoy/appreciate.. I think a sense of the familiar enhances my appreciation.

Some of pieces that are on my bucket list.

*Pathetique Sonata
*Variations on a Russian Dance-(I enjoy Alfred Brendel's recordings of the variations).
*Variations on God Save the King

oh..i'm a big fan of Gary Oldman so I love Immortal Beloved... another Fav film from his is The Professional---where, incidentally, his character listens to Beethoven as he goes on violent rampages.
Posted by: earlofmar

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 02:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Cassiesmom
Great thread smile ---where, incidentally, his character listens to Beethoven as he goes on violent rampages.





As did Alex (Malcolm McDowall) in A Clockwork Orange.

The soundtrack of this movie might have been my first exposure to Beethoven some of which was performed on a synthesizer. This spurred my older brother to go and buy a complete box set of the symphonies which he treated like gold. So in our house it was not uncommon to hear Abba followed by Beethoven.
Posted by: Palmpirate

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 10:48 AM

The Coursera class was really good. I had no idea just how revolutionary he was. I like how he is so capricious with form and it's comforting that he remains within the boundaries, at least to my ears. I consider his music 'classical' but then I've had the following centuries that have moulded my listening and I am no music scholar.

I started back at piano almost a year ago after several decades off. It has been very emotional to have to begin again. The Bagatelles have offered a wonderful re-entry point and technique is slowly coming back. Arthritis does slow me a bit and reaches sometimes not so easy but I'm loosening up. Next year I will peek cautiously at some of the sonatas. Sight reading is one thing, playing them another!

I have lots of recordings, Brendl, barrenboim, gould, and some others. I just have itunes play them randomly. It's a joy. I love the symphonies and the concertos. Anything with a piano in it. But I shall 'break out' and listen to some of his violin , and string quartet works as well!

As for the movies, must look at Immortal Beloved but Copying Beethoven was a mixed bag of reaction for me. I'm afraid the american accents threw me and credibility was challenged. I want to go read the biography referenced in coursera to get things straight in my head. Did she really conduct the 9th for him like that!

Anyway, it's all good stuff and I am so much more appreciative of his music having gained a little more understanding of both the music and of the society.
Posted by: JimF

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 02:51 PM

It is funny how our tastes and viewpoints can change over time.

Prior to starting my piano journey three or four years ago, my history with Beethhoven was probably limited to a few hearings of the 5th and 9th symphonies as a youngster in "music appreciation" class, a couple trips to the symphony every decade or so, occasional NPR encounters while driving, and whatever piece it is that got played in all those Bugs Bunny cartoons. smile

When I started piano I was listening to a lot of Chopin, so of course that is what I liked and wanted to eventually learn to play. Beethoven was loud banging versus the melodic Mr. C.

Thank goodness the piano and my teacher have led to exploring all kinds of music and composers in much greater depth than I ever would have imagined. And I can only guess how much more I have yet to comprehend. But one thing I can say for sure....and that is LvB is now one of my all time favorites. Sonata no.23 Op.57, "Appassionata" is currently the piece I tell my teacher I would be a happy man to have played just once before I take the big dirt nap. (Sorry Frederic C., I still want to play your Nocturnes too.) That time....playing not napping.....is probably a decade away, if ever, but there's a ton of great music between here and there, some of it by LvB himself, so I'm not really in a rush either. There's just so much great music to be played. Might as well enjoy it.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 06:56 PM

Great posts folks- I hope you all do well in your studies of Beethoven! I am listening to Moonlight by candlelight- yes I can erad and type by it- and it is raining outside; earlier there was thunder- very atmospheric. My hair is standing on end and I have goosebumps. Moonlight is best listened to at night with a slightly spooky atmosphere...

Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/16/13 07:05 PM


Quote:
The Coursera class was really good. I had no idea just how revolutionary he was.


He knocked their socks off! Have you seen the docu drama with Paul Rhys- he is a charismatic exciting Beethoven ( well I think Beethoven was like that...)- plenty of scenes of him playing piano and people's mouths falling open!


Quote:
I started back at piano almost a year ago after several decades off. It has been very emotional to have to begin again. The Bagatelles have offered a wonderful re-entry point and technique is slowly coming back. Arthritis does slow me a bit and reaches sometimes not so easy but I'm loosening up. Next year I will peek cautiously at some of the sonatas. Sight reading is one thing, playing them another!


I am glad the Bagatelles are taking you on a new piano journey!




Quote:
As for the movies, must look at Immortal Beloved but Copying Beethoven was a mixed bag of reaction for me. I'm afraid the american accents threw me and credibility was challenged. I want to go read the biography referenced in coursera to get things straight in my head. Did she really conduct the 9th for him like that!



The female copyist was fictional.The character herself was interesting but the scenes of her correcting his "mistakes" and conducting were daft. I thought Ed Harris wasn't bad as Beethoven- he did capture the eccentricities of his later years and was very funny and moving at times.

Here is the Paul Rhys one ( it is in 3 parts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YueD9vB51hk


When you have seen all 3 portrayals I'd be interested to see who you found the most authentic, realistic Beethoven!
Posted by: patH

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/17/13 04:48 PM

Beethoven is my favorite classical composer.

This year I learned op.10/1.
In my core repertoire, I loosely maintain op.27/2 (Moonlight), op.13 (Pathétique) and op.31/2 (Tempest).

Other Beethoven pieces I play more or less well: Für Elise, third movement of op.57 (Appassionata), and sometimes orchestral pieces.

My favorite piano concerto of his is the first (op.15, C major). As for the symphonies, 7 is probably my favorite, with 5, 8 and 3 also great.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/17/13 05:39 PM

Sounds like you are doing well there Pat!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/17/13 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: patH
Beethoven is my favorite classical composer.

This year I learned op.10/1.
In my core repertoire, I loosely maintain op.27/2 (Moonlight), op.13 (Pathétique) and op.31/2 (Tempest).

Other Beethoven pieces I play more or less well: Für Elise does this really belong in this list?, third movement of op.57 (Appassionata), and sometimes orchestral pieces. How do you play those on the piano?

My favorite piano concerto of his is the first (op.15, C major). This I can't understand. Over the 4th and 5th?? crazyAs for the symphonies, 7 is probably my favorite, with 5, 8 and 3 also great. And no 9th?
Posted by: patH

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/18/13 04:40 AM

Quote:
Für Elise does this really belong in this list?

Definitely. It's not too challenging technically, but musically. And it's fun to play.

Quote:
and sometimes orchestral pieces. How do you play those on the piano?

By ear. I retain the melodies, the core harmonies, and try to play it so it sounds ok. Examples: 1st movement of 7th symphony; Egmont overture; violin concerto.

Quote:
My favorite piano concerto of his is the first (op.15, C major). This I can't understand. Over the 4th and 5th?? crazy

Yes. In fact, the 4th and 5th are my least favorite piano concertos of his. I don't think they're bad; I just don't care much for them.

Quote:
As for the symphonies, 7 is probably my favorite, with 5, 8 and 3 also great. And no 9th?

A few weeks ago, there was a thread about ranking Beethoven's symphonies. My reply was: 7 5 8 3 9 1 6 4 2.
So 9 is just around the corner. grin
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/18/13 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: patH
Quote:
and sometimes orchestral pieces. How do you play those on the piano?

By ear. I retain the melodies, the core harmonies, and try to play it so it sounds ok. Examples: 1st movement of 7th symphony; Egmont overture; violin concerto.

Why not learn an actual transcription?

Originally Posted By: patH
Quote:
My favorite piano concerto of his is the first (op.15, C major). This I can't understand. Over the 4th and 5th?? crazy

Yes. In fact, the 4th and 5th are my least favorite piano concertos of his. I don't think they're bad; I just don't care much for them.

...
Posted by: patH

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/18/13 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Why not learn an actual transcription?

Why bother? Even a good transcription usually doesn't sound as good as the orchestral version. At least to me. So the benefit of having just a slightly better version is not really worth the effort of learning something by score instead of by ear.
And when I play pop music, I almost always play by ear. When the harmonies are not too difficult, it's easier for me than sight playing.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/18/13 04:44 PM

Pat I understand you- I think it is an achievement that you play some Beethoven by ear! I have just started pianoforall tonight and am pleased with it so far.Robin's method is chords based with some notation.
I recieved a book about Ludwig and Josephine Brunswick this morning from Amazon.I feel so sorry for them that they could not get married. The stress of it made Josephine ill.
Posted by: Piano RX

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 11:15 AM

This is a great thread and one that was long overdue.

For those of you who subscribe to Netflix Instant Streaming there is a great documentary on Beethoven entitled "Searching for Beethoven". I have watched it 2x and learned quite a lot about the man and his music.
Posted by: btb

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 01:11 PM

Beethoven batting list
(all comparatively easy for beginners)

Fur Elise (for learning arpeggios - like a harp)
Minuet in G (charming ... and only three pages)
(became the theme for the sitcom Fawlty Towers!)
Pathetique Sonata Opus 13 (soulful)
Moonlight Sonata Opus 27, no. 2 (easy opening 2 measures)
Les Adieu Opus 81a (sheer poetry)

kind regards, btb ... I've been there! (and back)
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: btb
(all comparatively easy for beginners)

Pathetique Sonata Opus 13
Moonlight Sonata Opus 27, no. 2
Les Adieu Opus 81a

Is this a joke? All of these are quite difficult, and the 81a is extremely so. None are suitable for any beginner or intermediate pianist.
Posted by: peterws

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 04:42 PM

"And when I play pop music, I almost always play by ear. When the harmonies are not too difficult, it's easier for me than sight playing."

must agree;I find pop music more complex than classical. Like, the melody is so all over the place . . .these female singers!
Posted by: Michael_99

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 04:49 PM

Is this a joke? All of these are quite difficult, and the 81a is extremely so. None are suitable for any beginner or intermediate pianist.

Thanks, Polyphonist.
Posted by: Valencia

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 04:50 PM

Great thread! I love Beethoven. And when life gets hard, I seem to want to immerse myself in his piano sonatas. Right now I’m trying to memorize the 3rd movement of the Moonlight sonata (27/2), which is way out of my league but I’m having loads of fun working on it. I’ve also been listening a lot to the 3rd movement of the Op. 109 Sonata. It’s way too difficult for me to play, but I’ve printed off the first page with the theme and first variation. They are beautiful and slow, and I like to try to play through them.

Here are two books I enjoyed about Beethoven (I already mentioned them previously on this site, but might as well list them here in this thread!) They were written by actual friends of Beethoven, and because of this I think they are real treasures:

Memories of Beethoven: From the House of the Black-Robed Spaniards by Gerhard von Breuning (the personal notes of a man who was close to Beethoven as a child)

Beethoven Remembered: The Biographical Notes of Franz Wegeler and Ferdinand Ries by Wegeler and Ries (recollections of Beethoven by his long-time friends)

Not sure which of Beethoven’s pieces would be accessible to beginners. But we had a list of his sonata movements suitable for intermediate players in this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2149034/1.html
Posted by: Ataru074

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 08:18 PM

Some of the pieces that are achievable for "late beginners" there are the ecossaises.
I think I did learn the WoO 83 when I was in single digit age laugh... good times :-)

this one just to be clear... I love it. :-)
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks...isen_WoO_83.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOlLDhcU0pE

there are section quite tricky for beginners ( double thirds and double sixts.. but being in small burst is a good introduction to that technique ).

after writing about it I feel a massive urge to put it under the fingers again! back to practice.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 09:41 PM

Quote:
Great thread! I love Beethoven. And when life gets hard, I seem to want to immerse myself in his piano sonatas.


He'd love that Valencia- he had such a difficult life and sought to bring comfort to everyone with his music. Did you know he sued to play for friends if they were ill or upset? I LOVE his sonatas- they are my favourite music of his and in fact of all music I have heard.


Quote:
Right now I’m trying to memorize the 3rd movement of the Moonlight sonata (27/2), which is way out of my league but I’m having loads of fun working on it.


Good for you! smile

Quote:
I’ve also been listening a lot to the 3rd movement of the Op. 109 Sonata. It’s way too difficult for me to play, but I’ve printed off the first page with the theme and first variation. They are beautiful and slow, and I like to try to play through them.



Oh those variations- they are so sublime they make me euphoric listening to them.



Quote:
Here are two books I enjoyed about Beethoven (I already mentioned them previously on this site, but might as well list them here in this thread!) They were written by actual friends of Beethoven, and because of this I think they are real treasures:

Memories of Beethoven: From the House of the Black-Robed Spaniards by Gerhard von Breuning (the personal notes of a man who was close to Beethoven as a child)

Beethoven Remembered: The Biographical Notes of Franz Wegeler and Ferdinand Ries by Wegeler and Ries (recollections of Beethoven by his long-time friends)



I haven't read those but I expect some of these will be in a book I have called Beethoven, Impressions by his Contemporaries.
They reveal a fascinating, kind person despite the plate throwing lol.

I'm reading a book by John Klapporth about Ludwig and Josephine Brunsvik -the lady who I am sure was the Eternal Beloved. It is very tragic- she eventually died of a broken heart because her mother would not let her marry Ludwig. cry
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/19/13 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Ataru074
Some of the pieces that are achievable for "late beginners" there are the ecossaises.
I think I did learn the WoO 83 when I was in single digit age laugh... good times :-)

this one just to be clear... I love it. :-)
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks...isen_WoO_83.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOlLDhcU0pE

there are section quite tricky for beginners ( double thirds and double sixts.. but being in small burst is a good introduction to that technique ).

after writing about it I feel a massive urge to put it under the fingers again! back to practice.


I must listen to them- I am quite excited Ataru, as although I have liked Beethoven's music for about 4 years, it is only recently, since doing the Coursera course about his sonatas that I have come to fully appreciate his genius and now love his music more than anyone's! I have so much to discover of his music- he wrote loads of it! Life without Beethoven would be no life at all.
Posted by: btb

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/20/13 06:54 AM

Don’t dumb down chaps ... even if “skeerdy cats”
(thank you for that Mark Twain) ...
Michael 99 and Polyphonist have ducked for cover
on my suggestions ...

Fur Elise (for learning arpeggios - like a harp)
Minuet in G (charming ... and only three pages)
(became the theme for the sitcom Fawlty Towers!)
Pathetique Sonata Opus 13 (soulful)
Moonlight Sonata Opus 27, no. 2 (easy opening 2 measures)
Les Adieu Opus 81a (sheer poetry)

Fur Elise is 70% a piece of cake learning arpeggios ,,,
the 2 tricky internal bits can be left till later.
For the rest, a slow and dedicated application, will pay off
in confidence gained ... with Beethoven masterpieces in your
current repertoire.

Posted by: Steve Warner

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/20/13 07:53 AM

I always recommend the first movement of Fur Elise for beginners. It's not too hard to learn and it sounds beautiful. Here is a video of me playing the whole piece:



And here is my first video lesson of Fur Elise:



My first 3 lessons cover the first movement.

All 11 lessons can be found on the lessons page of my website: http://www.pianoonlinemusic.com/lessons/

I hope some of you take advantage of this (everything is free).
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/20/13 11:13 AM

Quote:
Minuet in G (charming ... and only three pages)
(became the theme for the sitcom Fawlty Towers!)


I wish you hadn't told me that- I went on you tube and typed in the minuet, I will now have trouble listening to this minuet seriously.... laugh
I wonder if John Cleese was aware of Dennis Wilson being inspired by Beethoven to write the theme music? Basil Fawlty had this weird German obsession.
And his hotel is as bad as the ones Beethoven was unfortunate to get served in. Imagine Ludwig meeting Basil!!! And Manuel would have had to duck had Beethoven patronised Fawlty Towers!



Quote:
Fur Elise is 70% a piece of cake learning arpeggios ,,,
the 2 tricky internal bits can be left till later.
For the rest, a slow and dedicated application, will pay off
in confidence gained ... with Beethoven masterpieces in your
current repertoire.


When one is a plonky fumbly fingered beginner nothing is a piece of cake... blush
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/20/13 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve Warner
I always recommend the first movement of Fur Elise for beginners. It's not too hard to learn and it sounds beautiful. Here is a video of me playing the whole piece:



And here is my first video lesson of Fur Elise:



My first 3 lessons cover the first movement.

All 11 lessons can be found on the lessons page of my website: http://www.pianoonlinemusic.com/lessons/

I hope some of you take advantage of this (everything is free).


Steve- I have just completed your first tutorial! I found the Fur Elise sheet music from one of my books and was looking at it on my lap to refer to as watched the video. I paused at each bit and played it on my old Cecil. I found the E- E stretch a bit far at first ( got very little hands) but as kept on with it my hand seemed to flex more.I even did the pedalling! Thanks I shall keep practising it and then go to the next tutorial. i really LOVED that.
Posted by: Steve Warner

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/21/13 10:53 AM

Great! Keep me posted. I'm especially interested in how long it takes you to feel comfortable with the part taught in the first video, and how many minutes a day you're spending on it.

Note that in my blog, I go over a little bit from the sheet music after each video. My current blog posts might be too basic for you, but it will get more involved as I go. Here is the blog post with the first lesson:

http://www.pianoonlinemusic.com/piano-online-lesson-play-fur-elise-1/
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/21/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve Warner
Great! Keep me posted. I'm especially interested in how long it takes you to feel comfortable with the part taught in the first video, and how many minutes a day you're spending on it.

Note that in my blog, I go over a little bit from the sheet music after each video. My current blog posts might be too basic for you, but it will get more involved as I go. Here is the blog post with the first lesson:

http://www.pianoonlinemusic.com/piano-online-lesson-play-fur-elise-1/


No not too basic- I like how you present it. Had a long day in training session for my new job ( next week I start work part time so will have much more time for piano)- so am only now going to practise a little on Fur Elise. I don't like playing past 10pm- thinking of the neighbours.I think it was about 30 minutes on it yesterday evening.I'm going to keep practising it for a few nights. I'll let you know how I get on! No practise Thursday though as I'm going to a Rachmaninov concert straight from work!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/21/13 04:54 PM

I don't know what happened there....just spent about 25 minutes on it and I was able to play it many times in a row without fluffing- I have never done that before- I always fluff.
I also found myself becoming much smoother moving hand positions- getting the left hand in position as I started playing the right hand notes- not easy for me either as I have such small hands.
I found myself not thinking but just playing it in a sort other state of mind; hard to explain. In fact if I thought anything that's when the fluffs happened.
Perhaps it is Beethoven's two portraits on top of the piano- doing my best not to disgrace myself under his watchful eyes ha. I have also got Clara Schumann, Chopin and Liszt there too.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/22/13 04:37 PM

Fur Elise on electric guitar- really the most extraordinary version of anything by Beethoven I have heard on guitar- proof of how timeless Beethoven is- if one had never heard Fur Elise before, one would think
this was a twentieth century composition. What do you all think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnc4T26NslA
Posted by: Steve Warner

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/24/13 10:32 AM

That's a nice video - I love heavy versions of classical music. Sounds like it's going well for you. Have you learned the whole first movement yet?
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/24/13 10:52 AM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Fur Elise on electric guitar- really the most extraordinary version of anything by Beethoven I have heard on guitar- proof of how timeless Beethoven is- if one had never heard Fur Elise before, one would think
this was a twentieth century composition. What do you all think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnc4T26NslA
Originally Posted By: Steve Warner
That's a nice video - I love heavy versions of classical music. Sounds like it's going well for you. Have you learned the whole first movement yet?


You guys should take a look at my Beethoven Fantasy.
Posted by: AimeeO

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/24/13 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Fur Elise on electric guitar- really the most extraordinary version of anything by Beethoven I have heard on guitar- proof of how timeless Beethoven is- if one had never heard Fur Elise before, one would think
this was a twentieth century composition. What do you all think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnc4T26NslA
Originally Posted By: Steve Warner
That's a nice video - I love heavy versions of classical music. Sounds like it's going well for you. Have you learned the whole first movement yet?


You guys should take a look at my Beethoven Fantasy.


Oddly enough, I posted this to RST two weeks ago. It's a great arrangement of the third movement of Moonlight Sonata. I've always thought some of Beethoven's pieces would translate to metal well.




What and where is your Beethoven Fantasy, Poly?
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/26/13 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Steve Warner
That's a nice video - I love heavy versions of classical music. Sounds like it's going well for you. Have you learned the whole first movement yet?



Nooooooo! That'd take me years lol. I have yet to start the second video. Haven't played since Wed. I have been knackered with early starts for my new job. I also went to a concert Thursday night.I slept really late today- and had jobs round the house to do. My house is rivalling Beethoven's ha ha.
I aim to play a bit more later.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 10/26/13 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: AimeeO
What and where is your Beethoven Fantasy, Poly?







Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/05/13 02:25 PM

Very moving documentary on Beethoven. It is an old one and the picture quality is fuzzy- bit it's worth watching. Anyone know what sonata it is at 38:07?

There is a very poignant quote from the reading at Beethoven's funeral:

"If ever the power of his creations overwhelmed you like an approaching storm...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCGtCTwLwQ0
Posted by: neuralfirings

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/06/13 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: AimeeO

Oddly enough, I posted this to RST two weeks ago. It's a great arrangement of the third movement of Moonlight Sonata. I've always thought some of Beethoven's pieces would translate to metal well.




I can play 4 chords on the guitar, but I would love to get the accompaniment track to that YouTube and play along on the piano. Sounds like that would be a lot of fun!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/06/13 12:28 PM

You should have a go!
Posted by: timmyab

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/06/13 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Anyone know what sonata it is at 38:07?

It's the opening of the 4th piano concerto.The piano plays a short solo.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/06/13 05:09 PM

Yes, I found that out earlier this evening thanks Timmy. I love the way the piano and orchestra are "answering" each other.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/07/13 08:58 AM

Amazon have cottoned on to my Beethoven needs and sent me a link to the Thayer biography on Kindle for less than a quid! I delayed not a second to add this to my Kindle.
Of course, I prefer paper books but it is also nice to have a light weight reading device for the boring bus journeys!
Luckily nobody seemed to notice me laughing on the bus home today, as I was reading Beethoven's letters about his "vile" servants who he threw books at to make them get on with their work!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Life-Ludwig-...1?s=digital-...
Posted by: Triple J

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/07/13 11:53 PM

I've recently joined PW having taken back to the piano in the last year and I've fallen under the spell of Beethoven where it was Bach in school years and years ago. I've also been making my first foray into the Pathetique this past year and enjoy it more and more as the mind gets it under the fingers.

Just recently watched the BBC Beethoven. Very enjoyable.

And currently listening to the Sokolov Paris 2002.
His Beethoven is so fresh and full of life, it is really hard to fathom.
Posted by: shaolin95

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/08/13 11:28 AM

Glad to see this thread.
The reason I got into piano again was first because of Beethoven..my long time goal is to play Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement. smile
Of course, as I get more and more into classical, I am falling in love with many more composers and pieces. Some which are maybe beyond what I will be able to reach since I started as an adult but I for sure wont quit working to get there.
As my first official classical piece I just finished Fur Elise.
This was a piece I never intended to learn...it seemed so dull and tired already (probably thanks to a version I dislike so much by Richard Clayderman).
In any case, after listening to Valentina Lisitsa, I learned that there is a lot of beauty on that piece again and I am thrilled to be able to play it now.
Next stop is Moonlight Sonata 1st movement (although I am also working On Mozart Piano Sonata in C, K. 545 1st mov.).
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Triple J
I've recently joined PW having taken back to the piano in the last year and I've fallen under the spell of Beethoven where it was Bach in school years and years ago. I've also been making my first foray into the Pathetique this past year and enjoy it more and more as the mind gets it under the fingers.

Just recently watched the BBC Beethoven. Very enjoyable.

And currently listening to the Sokolov Paris 2002.
His Beethoven is so fresh and full of life, it is really hard to fathom.


It's always good to fall under Beethoven's spell! smile
When you meant the BBC prgramme- did you mean the documentary-drama one with Paul Rhys?
If you really want Beethoven fresh and full of life then Ronald Brautigam on fortepiano is it!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: shaolin95
Glad to see this thread.
The reason I got into piano again was first because of Beethoven..my long time goal is to play Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement. smile
Of course, as I get more and more into classical, I am falling in love with many more composers and pieces. Some which are maybe beyond what I will be able to reach since I started as an adult but I for sure wont quit working to get there.
As my first official classical piece I just finished Fur Elise.
This was a piece I never intended to learn...it seemed so dull and tired already (probably thanks to a version I dislike so much by Richard Clayderman).
In any case, after listening to Valentina Lisitsa, I learned that there is a lot of beauty on that piece again and I am thrilled to be able to play it now.
Next stop is Moonlight Sonata 1st movement (although I am also working On Mozart Piano Sonata in C, K. 545 1st mov.).



Yes, Beethoven needed his own thread! I am working on Fur Elise as well.I like Valentina also. There is great beauty in Fur Elise- I can feel it as I practise it even though I am a clumsy beginner.
I am sure you will love practising the C sharp minor sonata.
You know what I haven't listened to any of Mozart's piano sonatas.I ought to do that- will be interesting to see how different they sound to Beethoven's. I have heard some of Haydn's and all of Chopin's. Both of them are good but, I think from what I have heard, Beethoven was the master of piano sonatas. The Hammerklavier cannot be beaten!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 08:27 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
You know what I haven't listened to any of Mozart's piano sonatas.I ought to do that- will be interesting to see how different they sound to Beethoven's. I have heard some of Haydn's and all of Chopin's. Both of them are good but, I think from what I have heard, Beethoven was the master of piano sonatas. The Hammerklavier cannot be beaten!

Yes it can, but not by Mozart, Haydn, or Chopin.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 10:57 PM

Not by anyone. smile
The Hammerklavier is monumental in its scope of emotional depth and very hard to play. Even Stravinsky said the fugue of the last movement is "exhuasting".No sonata is as great as this one.
And not just the Hammerklavier- sonata no. 21 also is terrifcally hard to master:

One of his greatest and most technically challenging piano sonatas, the first section of the Rondo requires a simultaneous pedal trill, high melody and rapid left hand runs while its coda's glissando octaves, written in dialogue between the hands, compel even advanced performers to play in a simplified version since it is more demanding to play on the heavier action of a modern piano than on an early 19th Century instrument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_Sonata_No._21_%28Beethoven%29
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Not by anyone. smile

Only by Beethoven himself.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Not by anyone. smile

Only by Beethoven himself.


Aha yes....!! You have it my friend. Only the Master can beat the Master. He was renowned in Vienna at being the most extrordinary pianist they had ever seen, so much so that virtuoso pianist Daniel Stiebert left Vienna never to return, after Beethoven beat him in a piano improvisation contest.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:14 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
No sonata is as great as this one.

Maybe Opus 111.

The greatest sonata not by Beethoven is, in my opinion, Chopin's 3rd. But I would put about 5 Beethoven sonatas before that.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
No sonata is as great as this one.

Maybe Opus 111.

The greatest sonata not by Beethoven is, in my opinion, Chopin's 3rd. But I would put about 5 Beethoven sonatas before that.


I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth- it just takes you on a journey and feels like his whole life is in it.The ending is sublime.When I first heard the Hammerklavier I was blown to bits ( in a good way)!

Chopin's sonatas are excellent but Beethoven's later sonatas have something almost otherworldly about them, transcendent- awesome; they affect me like no other piano works I have heard.

After Beethoven I prefer Chopin's- shame he only wrote 3!

Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:36 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth...

I would nominate the Diabelli Variations for that position, or Opus 111 if we're only allowing sonatas.

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Chopin's sonatas are excellent but Beethoven's later sonatas have something almost otherworldly about them, transcendent- awesome...

Chopin's have that also, and I think you're underestimating them, but of course he can't compare with Beethoven, the greatest man ever to walk this earth.

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
After Beethoven I prefer Chopin's- shame he only wrote 3!

Agreed, and it's only 2. One of them is no good. mad

I'm currently working on the B minor. It's incredibly difficult, but the coda alone is worth all the effort. And looking at the entire piece...Wow. That sonata approaches Beethoven, and surpasses everything else.

Have you heard the Liszt?
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=EdwardianPiano]I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth...

I would nominate the Diabelli Variations for that position, or Opus 111 if we're only allowing sonatas.


The Diabelli Variations are excellent of course but I don't hear the emotional depth in them that the later sonatas have esp Hammerklavier.



Quote:
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Chopin's sonatas are excellent but Beethoven's later sonatas have something almost otherworldly about them, transcendent- awesome...

Chopin's have that also, and I think you're underestimating them, but of course he can't compare with Beethoven, the greatest man ever to walk this earth.


Yes, Chopin's certainly have great emotion in them and depth, but there is something indefinable in Beehoven's- I cannot quite put it into words. And yes Beethoven was the greatest man to ever be born. I think his character was as interesting as his music- big hearted man, eccentric and very courageous.



Quote:
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
After Beethoven I prefer Chopin's- shame he only wrote 3!

Agreed, and it's only 2. One of them is no good. mad

I'm currently working on the B minor. It's incredibly difficult, but the coda alone is worth all the effort. And looking at the entire piece...Wow. That sonata approaches Beethoven, and surpasses everything else.

Have you heard the Liszt?


Which one of Chopin's sonatas is no good?! I'll have to lsuten to them tomorrow- not heard them for awhile- Beethoven has my full attention lately... smile

Heard Liszt's once, but was a while back- didn't grab me like Beethoven and Chopin.

And what about Beethoven's Fantasy op 77? Brilliant!!!
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=EdwardianPiano]I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth...

I would nominate the Diabelli Variations for that position, or Opus 111 if we're only allowing sonatas.


The Diabelli Variations are excellent of course but I don't hear the emotional depth in them that the later sonatas have esp Hammerklavier.

Are you joking? Variation 24, 31, 33? And the variations as a whole are such a wonderful journey. It's the greatest work ever written for the piano, edging out Bach's similar masterpiece, the Goldbergs, by an appreciable amount.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/09/13 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Agreed, and it's only 2. One of them is no good. mad


Which one of Chopin's sonatas is no good?! I'll have to lsuten to them tomorrow- not heard them for awhile- Beethoven has my full attention lately... smile

The C minor. It's a student piece, and very dull and uninspired. One of the very, very few bad pieces in Chopin's output. The other two are brilliant.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Agreed, and it's only 2. One of them is no good. mad


Which one of Chopin's sonatas is no good?! I'll have to lsuten to them tomorrow- not heard them for awhile- Beethoven has my full attention lately... smile

The C minor. It's a student piece, and very dull and uninspired. One of the very, very few bad pieces in Chopin's output. The other two are brilliant.


Will listen to it tomorrow! Bedtime now. zzzzzzzzz
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 12:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=EdwardianPiano]I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth...

I would nominate the Diabelli Variations for that position, or Opus 111 if we're only allowing sonatas.


The Diabelli Variations are excellent of course but I don't hear the emotional depth in them that the later sonatas have esp Hammerklavier.

Are you joking? Variation 24, 31, 33? And the variations as a whole are such a wonderful journey. It's the greatest work ever written for the piano, edging out Bach's similar masterpiece, the Goldbergs, by an appreciable amount.


Will put them on you tube tomorrow....but no not joking..Hammerklavier is the one that affects me the most as an entire work but the variations in sonata no. 30 give me shivers of delight. smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 12:18 AM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
[quote=EdwardianPiano]I love opus 111 also- has what sounds like jazz in it! However I do think the Hammerklavier is his best in its depth...

I would nominate the Diabelli Variations for that position, or Opus 111 if we're only allowing sonatas.


The Diabelli Variations are excellent of course but I don't hear the emotional depth in them that the later sonatas have esp Hammerklavier.

Are you joking? Variation 24, 31, 33? And the variations as a whole are such a wonderful journey. It's the greatest work ever written for the piano, edging out Bach's similar masterpiece, the Goldbergs, by an appreciable amount.


Will put them on you tube tomorrow....but no not joking..Hammerklavier is the one that affects me the most as an entire work but the variations in sonata no. 30 give me shivers of delight. smile

Yes, I agree about the last movement of 109 - absolutely ethereal. But the "as a whole" prize, again, goes to Diabelli for me. The Hammerklavier is pretty high up there though, and at least we both love late Beethoven. smile You'd be surprised how many people out there don't get it. (Too deep for them? wink )
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 11:45 AM

Quote:
Yes, I agree about the last movement of 109 - absolutely ethereal. But the "as a whole" prize, again, goes to Diabelli for me. The Hammerklavier is pretty high up there though, and at least we both love late Beethoven. smile You'd be surprised how many people out there don't get it. (Too deep for them? wink )



They don't?!
Well onto the Diabelli variations you mentioned then Chopin's C minor sonata.
By the way here's a Beethoven radio station:

http://streamdb2web.securenetsystems.net/v5/BEETIR

They had Missa Solemnis on as I got up so achieved my aim to listen to that today- no need to put the CD on now.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 12:10 PM

Those variations are of course briliant. I blew my nose during variation 32 (got a cold) and my ears popped really loud and the music leapt out at me! 24 is beautifully gentle and tender. I will have to listen to them again in one go when I am not tired and full of cold. I am still going with the Hammerklavier as the most profound though.
Now onto poor Chopin....
Posted by: Triple J

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 07:57 PM

[/quote]
It's always good to fall under Beethoven's spell! smile
When you meant the BBC prgramme- did you mean the documentary-drama one with Paul Rhys?
If you really want Beethoven fresh and full of life then Ronald Brautigam on fortepiano is it! [/quote]

Thanks EP, Yes the Rhys one.
I just listened to Brautigam play Pathetique m1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqtob5343e8

Crisp and vivacious! His tremolo is sublime. It is unfortunate the modern piano action adds so much extra work to getting to the music of at least the earlier LvB works.
Early in my musical awakening I came across LP vinyl of ( was not available 8-track evidently laugh ) Fritz Neumyer playing Haydn sonatas on a hammerflügel. Beautiful little gems.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 08:27 PM

Quote:
Thanks EP, Yes the Rhys one.
I just listened to Brautigam play Pathetique m1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqtob5343e8

Crisp and vivacious! His tremolo is sublime. It is unfortunate the modern piano action adds so much extra work to getting to the music of at least the earlier LvB works.
Early in my musical awakening I came across LP vinyl of ( was not available 8-track evidently laugh ) Fritz Neumyer playing Haydn sonatas on a hammerflügel. Beautiful little gems.






I like to rewatch the scenes in the Paul Rhys docu drama- my favourites are when he beats Daniel Stiebert in the piano contest and when Julie is struggling with the 3rd movement of the C sharp sonata and he is standing there watching, then he comes up to her he and says "Can I help?" And when he sits down to play it her mouth falls open in amazement. Did you know the pianist for this drama was Ronald Brautigam?

Oh I haven't heard the Brautigam Pathetique yet- thanks for the link! Ronald's playing on the fortepiano is stunning- I think B would approve.
There are some more of his vids on you tube- check out the Hammerklavier sonata- astonishing!!

Is a hammerflugel a period keyboard? Ronald also has recorded Haydn on fortepiano- what a revelation! All the subtleties can be heard.

Here is the c sharp sonata, first mvt on a late 1800s piano with well temperament ( B was using something similar not equal temperament we have today):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fqQikzKIjs

PS Ronald was not using equal temperament either.


Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
I like to rewatch the scenes in the Paul Rhys docu drama- my favourites are when he beats Daniel Stiebert in the piano contest...


Is it this scene? I love it. grin

(By the way, it's Steibelt, not Steibert.)

Posted by: Jessiebear

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/10/13 10:12 PM

Just popping in to give Mr B. a bit of love! I enjoyed playing Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata 1st mvt as a teen, plus a couple of others. His music is so stormy and passionate. Loved the vid of the metal guitar version of M/S 3rd mvt!
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/11/13 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Jessiebear
Just popping in to give Mr B. a bit of love! I enjoyed playing Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata 1st mvt as a teen, plus a couple of others. His music is so stormy and passionate. Loved the vid of the metal guitar version of M/S 3rd mvt!


That's nice Jessie- Mr B deserves it. smile Yes stormy and passionate is right- must be what makes his music so alive and engaging- the 3rd movement of the C sharp minor ( don't like the term Moonlight it doesn't fit it and Mr B didn't give it that name- it was quasi una fantasia...) certainly is stormy and passionate isn't it!
The metal version is interesting.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/11/13 12:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
I like to rewatch the scenes in the Paul Rhys docu drama- my favourites are when he beats Daniel Stiebert in the piano contest...


Is it this scene? I love it. grin

(By the way, it's Steibelt, not Steibert.)



Yeah that's it- well poor Daniel is so memorable I got his name wrong. laugh
They greatly simplified his playing for this scene as he was said to be a virtuoso pianist but Beethoven was better again! After he beat Steibelt, Beethoven was declared the champion and no more piano improvisation contests were held- it was then agreed he was the best in Vienna and unbeatable.
Imagine his improvisations- they must have been out of this world! The descriptions by people who saw them indicate that.
Posted by: btb

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/11/13 03:08 AM

During my student days ... riding over Europe on my
BSA Bantam motorbike, and travelling up the Rhine ...

was lucky enough to visit Beethoven’s birthplace at Bonn ...
will never forget walking up those narrow stairs to the first floor,
of the double-storey house ... and being dazzled by a museum room fitted with all Beethoven’s mementoes including his Broadwood piano ... specially designed at the time by the English firm,
in the hope of easing his advancing deafness.

PS I was eventually glad to get out of the German bit of the tour
with the heavy influence of the Deutsch staple-diet of “swartbrod”
and at Strassbourg ... to pop over the Rhine bridge and enjoy the
lightness of those traditional long tasty French loaves .

Remember sitting on the kerb-side and devouring two loaves ...
each costing 6 Franks ... but then we were hungry!

regards, btb
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/11/13 03:29 AM

How I'd love to visit his old house in Bonn! Some people say his attic room has an atmosphere to it- did you notice that? I have been on the Beethovenhaus website a few times- it looks an amazing place. Also there is the house in Heiligenstadt in Vienna. That looks so picturesque. I can understand why he liked the area. In the video I posted a link to earlier one of the presenters walks along a brook that B loved.
Posted by: Ganddalf

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 02:59 AM

I have probably mentioned that I'm planning to start working on a Beethoven sonata. Having spent quite a lot of time on several of them some years ago, my problem is to choose which one to brush up. One option could have been to pick one I never worked on before. But brushing up one I already have been studying is probably a better idea. Initially I thought about Op.22 in B-major. Playing through the different movements, however, I found that it will take a lot of time for me to be able to play it reasonably well. The reason for this is probably that last time I worked on it was about 20 years ago.

Therefore I decided to look at Op.10/3 in D-major which I have been working on more recently. I put it aside about 8 years ago and since then I haven't played any Beethoven except the easy movements of the Moonlight and Pathetique sonata. I was not too optimistic when I started playing through Op.10/3, but was surprised that I remembered quite a lot of it, and could even play several pages from memory. Therefore this sonata will be my 2014 Beethoven project. I'll need to spend a lot of time on some difficult parts, and the goal is to memorise the whole sonata. I should probably also aim for a recording or a YouTube-video, otherwise there's a risk that I never finish the project.

Does anyone else play this sonata or parts of it?
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 06:01 AM

Opus 10/3 is on my long term list, Ganddalf. I'm currently starting the Largo e mesto for the May '14 ABF recital but I'll be alternating study with Clementi's Op. 25/5.

I'm starting the Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 3/2 with Griffin as a joint venture in February and if you're going slow enough I could work up the whole sonata with you in like manner but just not take it to recital tempo.

As you'll be doing much of it from memory, and twenty years is not long once a piece is in permanent/long term memory, let alone just eight, you'll be going much faster than I will. I tackled the first few measures years ago and decided I didn't have the necessaries back then.

If you think it might help you to share the learning process, methods and ideas I'll be happy to join in. If you'll be spending time on the difficult parts they'll be the same parts for me, by and large, so it would profit me to learn with you and share tips and tricks. I can always put the Clementi on hold.

On the other hand, I may slow you down if you already have most of it done.
Posted by: Ganddalf

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Opus 10/3 is on my long term list, Ganddalf. I'm currently starting the Largo e mesto for the May '14 ABF recital but I'll be alternating study with Clementi's Op. 25/5.

I'm starting the Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 3/2 with Griffin as a joint venture in February and if you're going slow enough I could work up the whole sonata with you in like manner but just not take it to recital tempo.

As you'll be doing much of it from memory, and twenty years is not long once a piece is in permanent/long term memory, let alone just eight, you'll be going much faster than I will. I tackled the first few measures years ago and decided I didn't have the necessaries back then.

If you think it might help you to share the learning process, methods and ideas I'll be happy to join in. If you'll be spending time on the difficult parts they'll be the same parts for me, by and large, so it would profit me to learn with you and share tips and tricks. I can always put the Clementi on hold.

On the other hand, I may slow you down if you already have most of it done.



I'm absolutely interested in discussing the learning process with you. Great that you already are planning the slow movement for the ABF recital.

What seems to be the greatest problem at my present stage is to handle the transitions. The reason may be that I have split the movements into "logical" segments and practiced these individually, but not focused much on the transitions between the segments.

I can very well start with the Largo movement. With my small hands some of the large chords are challenging. Before Christmas, however, I'm tied up with the Chopin Mazurka recital, and I'm also involved in the Tchaikovsky project. But the Beethoven sonata will be my long-term project next year.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 09:12 AM

Well I wish you both well learning the sonata! Keep us posted on how you are both doing on this thread!
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 11:20 AM

That sounds great, Ganddalf. I'm busy enough, too, up to Christmas with both piano and non-piano related activities so I'll put what I've done on hold and wait for you in January. In the meantime I'll have a gentle perusal of the Presto so that I won't drag you back too much when we start that.

After a cursory glance at the score on IMSLP (I'm in the office now) I think the development looks easy enough for someone who plays the Pathtique Allegro so I'll look at the recap first from M183 and the coda from M298. As you already have knowledge of this movement does that look resonable to you?

First subject difficulties would be the double thirds in LH and broken 6ths in RH.

M23 is B minor not A major so a transition theme? Doesn't look too difficult.

2nd subject starts in M53 and looks easy enough. LH in M93-97 and RH in M97-105 appear to be the hardest of that lot and then in the coda M333 to the finish.

Would that be about right? Any surprises for me that I've missed?
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 11:22 AM

Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Well I wish you both well learning the sonata! Keep us posted on how you are both doing on this thread!
Thank you for the good wishes.

We will probably start another thread specially for the piece. It might be easier for anyone interested to keep up with progress there.
Posted by: shaolin95

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 11:38 AM

Gosh talk about motivation..someone on youtube that posted a video about 3rd movement said that in her option it takes 10 years of at least 1hr practice a day to learn it! smirk
I sure will beat that laugh
Maybe she meant Master it.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Well I wish you both well learning the sonata! Keep us posted on how you are both doing on this thread!
Thank you for the good wishes.

We will probably start another thread specially for the piece. It might be easier for anyone interested to keep up with progress there.


Let's do it! I will help you guys analyze it, and why not, I'll learn it also. smile
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 11:56 AM

Originally Posted By: shaolin95
Gosh talk about motivation..someone on youtube that posted a video about 3rd movement said that in her option it takes 10 years of at least 1hr practice a day to learn it! smirk
I sure will beat that laugh
Maybe she meant Master it.
Maybe she was on YouTube! laugh

The third movement is the Menuetto. It's not much above Clementi sonatina level. An hour a day would be overkill and ten days might be achievable for a younger player.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:02 PM

The voicing and counterpoint of the Menuet are deceptively difficult. Far, far above what Clementi writes in sonatinas.
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
The voicing and counterpoint of the Menuet are deceptively difficult. Far, far above what Clementi writes in sonatinas.
The trio reminds me of Clementi Op. 36/5 and Scarlatti Kp. 95. Much of the Menuetto itself isn't even hands together. I don't think it'll take me ten years. And that's not braggadoccio.

Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Let's do it! I will help you guys analyze it, and why not, I'll learn it also. smile
Yikes! I missed that!!

I intend learning this over the year with Ganddalf not by playing it through a few times over the next fortnight!! smile
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:16 PM

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
The voicing and counterpoint of the Menuet are deceptively difficult. Far, far above what Clementi writes in sonatinas.
The trio reminds me of Clementi Op. 36/5 and Scarlatti Kp. 95. Much of the Menuetto itself isn't even hands together. I don't think it'll take me ten years.

I didn't say it would take you ten years. I said it was harder than it first appears.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Let's do it! I will help you guys analyze it, and why not, I'll learn it also. smile
Yikes! I missed that!!

I intend learning this over the year with Ganddalf not by playing it through a few times over the next fortnight!! smile

What's your point? That was my understanding.
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:19 PM

I understood from another thread that you learn difficult pieces by playing them through a few times.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:20 PM

I don't remember saying that. If I did, I was probably joking.

Anyway, what does the pace of learning have to do with it?
Posted by: zrtf90

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:29 PM

Never mind. smile

It looks like we'll be starting in the new year so we'll start a thread around then and see what happens.

It also looks like we'll begin with the Largo but as Ganddalf has already become familiar with the Presto I might sneak a peek beforehand to better keep up when we get there. Until then, you might cast your more experienced eye on my earlier findings and suggest a better order or tackling the Presto.

ETA: I'm about to leave for home so I might not respond readily.


Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 12:47 PM

The Presto is fascinating to analyze. Possibly the most fascinating of the four movements. Whenever anyone would like to start, I'm ready. smile Ganddalf?
Posted by: shaolin95

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: zrtf90
Originally Posted By: shaolin95
Gosh talk about motivation..someone on youtube that posted a video about 3rd movement said that in her option it takes 10 years of at least 1hr practice a day to learn it! smirk
I sure will beat that laugh
Maybe she meant Master it.
Maybe she was on YouTube! laugh

The third movement is the Menuetto. It's not much above Clementi sonatina level. An hour a day would be overkill and ten days might be achievable for a younger player.


Sorry my bad..I was referring to the so called Moonlight Sonata Presto agitato laugh
Posted by: Ganddalf

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 04:22 PM

A special thread about this sonata is a good idea. I think that analysis and any other issues related to the study of it should be made there, and maybe it should be started right away.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 11/25/13 04:23 PM

That sounds like a good idea. Will you start it? smile
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 12/10/13 09:13 PM

Here's an interesting article about Beethoven's music by the pianist John Lill:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/podium/John%20Lill

Click on The word genius does not adequately describe Beethovens stature as a composerin blue to see article.
Posted by: EdwardianPiano

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 02/20/14 10:05 AM

The Piano Guys are an American musical group consisting of Jon Schmidt, Steven Sharp Nelson, Paul Anderson, and Al van der Beek. They gained popularity through YouTube, where they posted piano and cello renditions of popular songs and classical music.

Beethoven's 5 Secrets

In 2012 the American Heritage Lyceum Philharmonic (Youth Orchestra), and its director, Kayson Brown, approached with the idea of a piece based on Beethoven's 5th symphony. The orchestra performed "Beethoven's Secrets" with The Piano Guys on YouTube which had received 2 million hits within 2 months of its release. It was OneRepublic's Secrets with parts from Beethoven's 5th symphony, a cello and orchestral cover. The vocal version features YouTube star Tiffany Alvord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ_fkw5j-t0#t=21


Moonlight

This video shows Steven Sharp Nelson playing Moonlight, a piece he composed for electric cello inspired by Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and the melody from Beethoven's 7th Symphony, 2nd movement. It was posted to YouTube on July 14, 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRVvFYppU0w



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Piano_Guys#Moonlight
Posted by: Rusty Fortysome

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 02/27/14 08:20 AM

Beethoven's genius was is such diversity.

He gave us great pieces that went from simple exercises to small "pop" pieces to large symphonies. All of them were crafted to teach or express something.

Some were even ingeniously crafted with a misinterpreted "voicelessness" which was to allow the player to reinterpret the pieces any way he/she felt necessary at the moment. Moonlight Sonata 1 & 2, for instance, have a paucity of expression described and even rhythms at slow paces... boring! ... If you play them like a robot. Add your own emotion and they pop alive, inflating with personal style! They become methods of inner communication, and I believe he crafted them to be such.

That guy was intense. His music should be played with intensity contained, smoldering, exploding, brooding.
Posted by: Fortepianophil

Re: The Love Ludwig van Beethoven thread - 03/10/14 07:51 AM

I found these three beautiful Beethoven performances by German pianist Wolfgang Manz. Hope you'll enjoy them as much as I did!

Bagatelles Op. 126 No 1-4


Andante favori in F major


Polonaise C-Dur op. 89