Piano song requests?

Posted by: kent2012

Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 08:19 AM

Hello I would like to know if this forum facilitates any song requests?
There is a song I would love to learn how to play but there are no tutorials or anything on youtube....
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
Hello I would like to know if this forum facilitates any song requests?
There is a song I would love to learn how to play but there are no tutorials or anything on youtube....


if the song excites someone's interest, help might be offered?
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 08:30 AM

... ummm.

You mean like, come up with an arrangement/score you can use?

Or show you how to play it, via YouTube video?

This is not a preferred method of learning as has/is being discussed in another thread. But up to you of course.

Good question, but sorry not something I can help with.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 08:48 AM

Greener, either would be helpful and on your point number 3 what is the preferred method of learning? could you provide link to the thread you speak of?
thanks
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 09:06 AM

This is the thread I was referring to. Many ideas have been discussed. There is never a clear winner it seems ...

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2258573

There are a plenty of people here that can help you with whatever it is you are working on. Usually though, you would already have an arrangement you are asking about.

But, you never know ...
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 09:26 AM

http://www.amazon.com/In-All-Things-Matthew-Fisher/dp/B005O4S392

Track 6 "Hope" can anyone determine what key it might be in at least?

http://audiojungle.net/item/hopeful-piano/3629522

Full song but with annoying voiceover spam every 10 secs smirk
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
http://www.amazon.com/In-All-Things-Matthew-Fisher/dp/B005O4S392

Track 6 "Hope" can anyone determine what key it might be in at least?


All black notes, so I believe Db. I could be wrong though. Wait for the experts in case I am.
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 09:54 AM

I don't have perfect pitch but from the style of composition it seemed you could play most of it (all of it? - I didn't go to the end) on white notes if you play it in Am so that was my guess. In fact it's a semitone lower in G# minor.

For a beginner, I'd be inclined to play it in A minor, and stick to the mostly white notes.
Posted by: TheodorN

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 09:59 AM

Greener, where does it say in the thread what is the best book... that learning from YouTube videos is not the preferred way? I followed that thread pretty closely and I never saw any mention of that. All I saw was people denying that learning to play with lighted keys keyboard was helpful, at least saying it was not sufficient.
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: TheodorN
Greener, where does it say in the thread what is the best book... that learning from YouTube videos is not the preferred way? ...


Yes, correct it was not an exact mention. Sorry. However, it was discussed with many other methods. I'll just say, it appeared to me that it was not winning the most favour. But, it is all about sharing ideas and making your own choices.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:23 AM

thanks dire_tonic and greener, are you guys at the level where you can just have a listen and be able to play the song? That is a level I hope to aspire to one day. It must be the best feeling just hearing something a few times and being able to replicate it!

So it's agreed that it's most likely in Db?
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
thanks dire_tonic and greener, are you guys at the level where you can just have a listen and be able to play the song? That is a level I hope to aspire to one day. It must be the best feeling just hearing something a few times and being able to replicate it!


I'm not. I can pick out the melody and with some work (trial an error) may be able to come up with a close accompaniment I am happy with ... provided not overly complex. But I would need to work on it before it is close to being presentable.

My Dad could do it, but he was pro.

There is a lot you can do before you get to this level though. So enjoy the journey ...
Posted by: TheodorN

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:32 AM

I can't see anything wrong with learning from videos. Brian Lucas offers video lessons himself, so obviously he's not a disbeliever in them. Of course a teacher by your side (or through Skype) is better, but for some people that is not an option, for many reasons.
Posted by: TheodorN

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:41 AM

To your original question, kent2012, would you like to suggest a song, and see if anybody would like to learn it with you? If it happens to be a song I want to learn, I'm ready to join in with you. Then we can start a thread about it. There is such a thread about Autumn Leaves, so we have a precedent.

I started a thread about Ave Maria sometime ago, and one member suggested learning it together like this. Unfortunately not much has happened, because I'm recovering from a shoulder pain, and on top of that got some kind of allergy around my eyes, so I'm not up to much right now. Should be better in a couple of days.
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 10:44 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012

So it's agreed that it's most likely in Db?


no laugh

its minor as DT has pointed out. So, if you want to work on this, suggested you play it (find an arrangement) in Am ... all whites. Instead of all blacks which will be far more challenging to read ...
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 11:06 AM

Thanks for your replies, TheodorN well yes the song is "Hope by Matthew L. Fisher"
I bought/downloaded the song but youtube won't let me upload just an audio file.

I think it's a beautiful piece and I would love to play it!

Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 11:22 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012

I bought/downloaded the song but youtube won't let me upload just an audio file.


If you subscribe to box.com (it's free) you can upload the sound file there and provide link here. There are other facilities like it ... soundcloud is one. Many here use box.com
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 11:53 AM

ok I managed to upload it onto the tubes...
http://youtu.be/nkVVWEQ6xyk

what do you people think?
Is it doable?

All requests aside, what do the experienced actually think of the song? To a noob like myself it sounds so good, probably not very complex to the experienced I assume..
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 12:46 PM

Yes, of course it is doable.

It is not a sophisticated chord progression, but a lot of fancy fill with the chord progression there is. If my Dad were here, he would chart a score for you in --5 minutes for this one-- Am. Then, I would upload it here and you'd be off to the races. smile

There may be others around to offer the same. Best of luck with that.

I do not know anything about your playing ability currently and I am not a teacher. However, it seems to me that if you really like the piece and want to work on it, then a good choice for you. Go for it.

But, you should get in Am.

Think G# if you are trying to play along with this one.
Posted by: evamar

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 12:58 PM

I do like it too! Hadn't heard it before, but sophisticated or not, difficult or not, I wouldn't mind to learn it.
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 01:42 PM

All it is is the same old tired four-chord business again - not in any way complex. But if that's your thing, then go for it.
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 05:19 PM

Poly, could you score this for him in Am?

Or, is that even the best thing?
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Greener
Poly, could you score this for him in Am?

Or, is that even the best thing?


Instant gratification for the reader and not much fun for the transcriber if it's something he doesn't particularly like.

I'll chuck in an initial hint for the short section starting at 1.27 - probably the most approachable for a beginner to try and figure out. It's in 3/4 time. Your mission, Kent, is to figure out the RH - remember it's all white notes.
Here's the LH which plays 1/8 notes. I've only written out the first pattern because all the others are exactly the same white note pattern using the new first note for each line.

A C E C E C ....then, same pattern starting on:-
D - then, ....starting on
G ..then,.....starting on
A...
A...
F...
G...
A...
A..(different pattern here!)

Another exercise is to figure out which of those chords are major and which ones minor?

good luck!
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/18/14 11:54 PM

thanks dire_tonic and everyone. I will give it a go as far as my level, it is very much beginner still smirk
So I'm open to whatever way is best to learn a song at this stage in my development :\
Posted by: Polyphonist

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 12:15 AM

The best way is this: create the score, and then learn from that.
Posted by: AZ_Astro

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 12:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Greener
Originally Posted By: kent2012
thanks dire_tonic and greener, are you guys at the level where you can just have a listen and be able to play the song? That is a level I hope to aspire to one day. It must be the best feeling just hearing something a few times and being able to replicate it!


I'm not. I can pick out the melody and with some work (trial an error) may be able to come up with a close accompaniment I am happy with ... provided not overly complex. But I would need to work on it before it is close to being presentable.

My Dad could do it, but he was pro.

There is a lot you can do before you get to this level though. So enjoy the journey ...


[Note: I call this method: Play Along with YouTube]

I listened to this song and the melody is quite easy to pick out.

It seems to me that you could learn directly from your Youtube posting that has the full score.

Play the Youtube video and learn to play along with your right hand only, melody only. Learn a measure thoroughly and then move on to the next measure. The melody is usually only one note at a time. Learn a musical phrase in its entirety. It'll take awhile to learn the whole song, maybe four or five evenings? Just "play along with Youtube," until you know the melody line for the entire song. Enjoy the process and the music. As you learn the right hand, you'll start to hear some repetition in the left hand. That's a good start.

When you have the right hand down, you can start to pick out the left hand chords/arpeggios. They sound pretty clear to me and it would be easy for me to find the chords. Now start learning JUST the left hand, measure by measure. Take it a few measures at a time. Just enough to fill your brain but you'll want to memorize the left hand now. Keep adding a few more measures each evening. Play along some more with Youtube. The bonus here is that there is a lot of repetition in the left hand.

You won't be able to stop yourself from putting the hands together, so go ahead and try that out and have fun.

When you have both left and right hands memorized separately, put them together and play it as a song. Then figure out the start and the finish if there is a lead-in and/or ending that is different.

These are just some ideas but they work. I have learned a few songs this way. It's not as hard as it sounds and it doesn't take as long as you might think. Picking a song that you adore makes all the difference. A good ear helps. And avoid the feeling that you have to play it exactly right. Missing notes in the middle are rarely detectable.

When you're all done, make a midi file so that others can learn the song from you the easy way using Synthesia.

Oh yes, this works better in an mp3 player because of all the starts and stops. You have better control. Youtube videos can be annoying when stopping/restarting and you are subject to the download delays.

Just a few ideas.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 01:23 AM

Thanks dire,poly,astro...I've never done this before so it may take a while, I've only ever learned to play songs from Synthesia and tutorials off youtube :S

I can probably figure out the single notes on the RH but how do you determine what notes are being played on the right hand when it sounds like more than one note is being played? as it sounds (to me anyway) that some parts of the melody more than one note is being played together or is that from the left?
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 01:42 AM

The section I pointed to (1:27 on) is 2-part, you're only ever playing one note at a time in each line. There are what sound like possibly sustained notes under with the LH but you can simulate that using the sustain - just treat it as 2-part and it will sound very close.

A lot of the other sections are also 2-part, the entire piece never going beyond 3 notes in total with the 2-note parts mostly in the right hand. For the moment just work on the LH and on the melody. Think about filling in the 3rd line when you've got the LH and melody down.
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 02:00 AM

- another thought; as AZ_Astro suggested, an mp3 player is essential for this kind of work - even better would be one with the ability to play back short loops. VLC player can do this (it's free), there may be others.

If you can read music (?) I'd recommend drafting out some manuscript paper in pencil with blank barlines and min-sec timings here and there. Treat the whole piece like a painting-by-numbers and write out what you can coming back to the blank spots as your ear develops. If you're stuck on one particular bar I'm sure you'll get help. Do this and you'll make a quantum leap in your musical skills.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 02:56 AM

I cannot read as yet, even just dabbling with the intro you guys don't think it starts off with the a flat minor?
or did you mostly suggest a minor as it's easier for someone like me to play?

Intro:
Ab, Ab chord 1st inversion,Ab,Eb, Ab chord,b,Gb and then not sure smirk

Will keep at it as I'm sure this is better in the long run for me than Synthesia frown
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
I cannot read as yet, even just dabbling with the intro you guys don't think it starts off with the a flat minor?
or did you mostly suggest a minor as it's easier for someone like me to play?

- yes, for a beginner. Also, if you're picking out the melody by trial and error "only white notes" means you've only got 7 instead of 12 to pick from.

Quote:

Intro:
Ab, Ab chord 1st inversion,Ab,Eb, Ab chord,b,Gb and then not sure smirk

The first 4 intro chords are
G#m, B, F#, G#m

- best to think of it in G#m rather than Abm or your second chord becomes Cb - a bit unwieldy.

Quote:
Will keep at it as I'm sure this is better in the long run for me than Synthesia frown

- definitely!
Posted by: AZ_Astro

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/19/14 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
Thanks dire,poly,astro...I've never done this before so it may take a while, I've only ever learned to play songs from Synthesia and tutorials off youtube :S

I can probably figure out the single notes on the RH but how do you determine what notes are being played on the right hand when it sounds like more than one note is being played? as it sounds (to me anyway) that some parts of the melody more than one note is being played together or is that from the left?


Well - you're right! That can be tough! You'll be developing your ear as you do this and you'll improve. When chords are playing in the right hand, you'll have to play it over and over until you're pretty sure which notes are being sounded. And, as long as you're close, you're probably good!

When you start putting the hands together, you may find a few surprises. Like some notes that need to be played by the right hand that you can't handle with the left. In those situations, add 'em in or forget 'em!

I have used this method to write arrangements of symphonic works and some movie scores. It's tedious but do-able. And you end up as The Only Person On The Planet who has the piano music for that work, which is neat.

***

By the way, on that score that you like, I would skip the intro for awhile and go straight to the main song. Up to you, of course.
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/21/14 09:55 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012

I can probably figure out the single notes on the RH but how do you determine what notes are being played on the right hand when it sounds like more than one note is being played?


You need the chords. The Arpegios in the LH and any harmony to the melody in the RH will typically follow the chords. dire tonic has provided the intro chords in G#m. What key are you going to learn this in now?

If you are determined to learn this in G#m, after you have it figured out, another good exercise may be to shift everything up one semi-tone to be in Am. Then you can decide where you like to play it. In performance, no one will notice the difference.

I agree with AZ Astro to skip the intro for now and cut to the chase.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 07:24 AM

ok so I think I've got the entire RH down pat, not off by heart but I know what notes are being played after doing plenty of trial and error.
What I still can't figure out are the arpeggios on the left...
Even something like the intro when the left begins, would you agree it is G#,D#,G#,B, back toG#,D#? then it moves to G#,D#,G#,A#,B,D#?

So far I think the chords are G#mior,F# major, C#minor?

How do you guys figure out the left when a lot of the times what the right is playing seems to drown out the left. It's very hard to tune in sometimes, but I guess this is normal for a newbie....
Posted by: EM Deeka

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 07:38 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
...

How do you guys figure out the left when a lot of the times what the right is playing seems to drown out the left. It's very hard to tune in sometimes, but I guess this is normal for a newbie....


Have you looked at Transcribe Transcribe! is the world's leading software for helping musicians to work out music from recordings. They have a 30 day free trial.
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 08:08 AM

Seeing all these sharps, I'm convinced we are not in Am smile .

The chords will disclose what is really happening (LH & RH) behind all the clutter.

The reason I suggested you get the chords, is that you will still need to learn the piece and figure out much of the fancy work (as you are doing) by ear. But at least you will have the base.

I've been playing for many years and still cheat like crazy. If I can have the chords vs. trying to figure out entirely by ear, I'll take them. If I can't get them easily, I may watch the hands of someone in a YouTube video, if I can't figure them out on my own.

Up to you though.

Poly said we only have 4 chords in the entire piece. So, it shouldn't be too tough to get them all charted. You already have them for the intro. Sorry, I'm not the best person to help you with this. I'll try if no one else comes to the rescue.

G#, C#, G#, B, back to G#, C# - The C# looks suspect to me if we are on G#m here, unless just a passing. But I have not gone back to have a listen.

I'll see where you are with this tonight and take closer look if no further.



Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 08:14 AM

Oh crap that was supposed to be D#! so basically arpeggio'ing the G#minor chord :\
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 08:22 AM

Yes.
The D# makes more sense; All these notes make total sense for G#m. Even if you do not play them in the same order, it will still be a G#m and will sound great.

I'm a little confused of what you are saying happens next, but will take closer look later. Remember, your opening intro chords are ...

"The first 4 intro chords are
G#m, B, F#, G#m"

Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 08:33 AM

That transcribe program is pretty cool EM
thanks a lot
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 08:53 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
Oh crap that was supposed to be D#! so basically arpeggio'ing the G#minor chord :\

That's right!

You've been reminded of the first 4 chords so the next one will be B. He plays another arpeggio on the B but it's very slightly different from the G#m one. He uses the same pattern as the B arppegio for 3rd chord which is on F#. After that you'll have to deal with some irregularity because he plays the G#m for 2 bars then introduces another chord.

Anyway, Kent, well done! You took some initiative and got stuck into trying to figure it out. Usually with these threads, those looking for clues seem to be either too lazy to follow up or not yet able to do so. I'd be interested to know if 'transcribe' helps you.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 09:41 AM

Thanks dire,
How did you guys know that the 2nd chord is B? just by listening to it? or is that what follows G#m in a lot of cases? same question goes for F# smirk

Is there a name for the style the arpeggios are being played in? if just G#,D#,G# was being played is that called playing the 5ths?
Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is it the scale of the Chord being played?
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
Thanks dire,
How did you guys know that the 2nd chord is B? just by listening to it? or is that what follows G#m in a lot of cases? same question goes for F# smirk


B is one of quite a few chords that would have sounded ok but would have taken the idea in a different direction. Yes, I hear the B chord clearly but your guess of G#m (repeating the first chord) isn't so far off the mark - there's only one note difference between the two triads and the G#m is the relative minor of the B major - they're close.

Quote:
Is there a name for the style the arpeggios are being played in? if just G#,D#,G# was being played is that called playing the 5ths?

There's not a name as such. It wouldn't be worth naming the entire pattern since so many small variants exist - you might just as well name the notes or write them on the stave. Fair to say "roots and 5ths" is meaningful as a musical cliché - you'll hear it such a lot in the LH - but there's usually more detail required.

Quote:

Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is it the scale of the Chord being played?

If I've understood your question, the LH notes for the B chord might go some way to answering it.
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 10:06 AM

damn another typo sorry I meant to say Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is in the scale of the Chord being played?
so for e.g if I wanted to play a G#m arpeggio there shouldn't be a C or a D being played within it right?
A bit off topic but I just wanted to clear that up while I was on it smirk



Thanks for your replies
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: kent2012
damn another typo sorry I meant to say Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is in the scale of the Chord being played?
so for e.g if I wanted to play a G#m arpeggio there shouldn't be a C or a D being played within it right?
A bit off topic but I just wanted to clear that up while I was on it smirk


As generalisations go, you're on safe ground.

The C would be most unwelcome in G#m but you'd get away with the D nat. in a 'blue' setting - but it's completely different music!
Posted by: kent2012

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 10:52 AM

ok Thanks for clearing that up
So when I play the opening G#m what is the correct fingering? G#,D#,G#, B, back to G#,D#
5 2 1 hand shifts1 3 1 ?
Posted by: dire tonic

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/23/14 11:01 AM

- I wouldn't bother with the thumb under for that shape, just span it pinky to thumb... 5 3 2 1 2 3 5
Posted by: Greener

Re: Piano song requests? - 04/24/14 07:35 AM



Originally Posted By: dire tonic

I'll chuck in an initial hint for the short section starting at 1.27 - probably the most approachable for a beginner to try and figure out. It's in 3/4 time. Your mission, Kent, is to figure out the RH - ...

Here's the LH which plays 1/8 notes. I've only written out the first pattern because all the others are exactly the same white note pattern using the new first note for each line.

A C E C E C ....then, same pattern starting on:-
D - then, ....starting on
G ..then,.....starting on
A...
A...
F...
G...
A...
A..(different pattern here!)


As you continue working on this Kent, please keep in mind that the above is still valid and will help you. Simply shift everything down 1 semi-tone to be in G#m.

A becomes G#, C becomes B, E becomes D# etc.

Suggest, write it all out for yourself and give it a go, if you have not already, or when you get to this part.

There is nothing wrong with skipping around in the piece (actually smart idea) as you learn it and put it all back together later.