Linus and Lucy Study Group

Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 06:43 AM

Welcome, you have arrived at the Linus and Lucy party!!!

As was posted in Intermediate-Early Advanced ABF Piano Groups ... we will be using the "Linus and Lucy, by Vince Guaraldi (Advanced Version in A-Flat)" version. HL00352295 printed above the bar code on the sheet music version.

dvdiva posted the following links for online scores.


 Quote:
Originally posted by dvdiva:
...
The digital score is sold online, you can buy it immediately and print a copy. Just search for "linus and lucy" at any of the ff. digital sheet stores:

www.sheetmusicdirect.com --> $3.95
www.sheetmusicdigital.com --> $4.25
www.musicnotes.com --> $4.65

There are two versions of the advanced A-flat version though, one that's 6 pages and one that's 8 pages. [/b]
The following have signed up as of June 13th
Agilita \:\)
dvdiva \:\)
folly
FurElise
kawaigirl1
Monica Kern \:\)
Monster M&H \:\)
mr_super-hunky
Opus45
SAS
Sandy Moore
ShiroKuro
Shortcircuit85 \:\)
TX-Dennis \:\)
dk21208 \:\)

Can those that have aquired a score please respond and let us know what version/level you have, so we are ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.

Thanks
Monster M&H

ps \:\) denotes you have a copy
Posted by: pianoga

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 07:28 AM

That's funny Monster! I bought the cd on the internet in Canada a month ago but had delivery problems, had my credit card Co refund my payment, re-ordered elsewhere, and FINALLY it arrived this morning and I'm listening to it for the 3rd time right now!!

I got the score online, (simple short version, not sure how many there are around). Don't remember where I got it but I could mail it to you if you want!
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 07:40 AM

The following have signed up as of June 13th
Agilita \:\)
dvdiva \:\)
folly
FurElise \:\)
kawaigirl1
Monica Kern \:\)
Monster M&H \:\)
mr_super-hunky
Opus45
SAS
Sandy Moore
ShiroKuro
Shortcircuit85 \:\)
TX-Dennis \:\)
dk21208 \:\)

It seems I have reached the max edits (8) on the lead in post.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 07:45 AM

Yippee! We're starting!

The digital score is sold online, you can buy it immediately and print a copy. Just search for "linus and lucy" at any of the ff. digital sheet stores:

www.sheetmusicdirect.com --> $3.95
www.sheetmusicdigital.com --> $4.25
www.musicnotes.com --> $4.65

There are two versions of the advanced A-flat version though, one that's 6 pages and one that's 8 pages. I'm not sure which one we'll be studying? Or what the difference is? Perhaps it's just a matter of layout, or maybe the one with longer pages printed out repeating passages instead of just using the repeat mark?
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 07:58 AM

Thank you!!! Will have a copy in a couple of days...anyone else having any problems aquiring a score??
Posted by: nikkus

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 08:51 AM

hey there,
by coincidence i've jst downloaded 'Cast Your Fates to the Wind' by Guaraldi (his album 'Jazz Impressions of Black Orpheus' is awesome) -- except i've had to buy a 'new age' version by George Winston (I think that's the name) because the Guaraldi versions are simplified and are in the wrong key. Not nearly as good.
has anyone learned to play this?
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 10:43 AM

I'm in... I think I already have the score; at least I got hold of it over a year ago, found it too hard and put it away for a while. I think it's the right (A-flat) version, but I need to dig it out of my looming pile of to-be-started sheet music. If not I'll order it from sheetmusicplus tomorrow.
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 10:52 AM

I just bought the Ab version a couple months ago and have not taken the time to learn it beyond a couple sight reads.... I would like to be in on the fun.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:10 AM

I don't remeber anyone mentioning anything about having FUN[/b], dk21208!!

But yes...lets begin...
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:23 AM

Oops, I forgot.... no fun at the piano. Ok, got my serious face on.

Let the games begin!!!

...oh, hmm, did it again.... Guess I will be sitting over here with my nose in the corner of the room until everyone else is ready to begin.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:48 AM

Okay, I'm in too...but I need to order another copy (still can't find my old one dang it).
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 12:14 PM

I'm in too, but I'm still waiting for my paper copy to arrive in the mail. It is suppose to be here any day now.
Posted by: SAS

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 12:18 PM

I want to do this one also. I've made some attempts at it already, now I need to get serious!
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 12:54 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by dk21208:
Oops, I forgot.... no fun at the piano. Ok, got my serious face on.

Let the games begin!!!

...oh, hmm, did it again.... Guess I will be sitting over here with my nose in the corner of the room until everyone else is ready to begin. [/b]
dk21208...get back over here, jk'ing on the having fun bit...old joke from bowling and golf(pencils at bowling alleys always said "bowling is family fun"...never said that on the golf pencils!!) OK back to pianos. I will be talking to my teach tonight and see if they have a copy.

LETS HAVE SOME FUN!!![/b]
Posted by: Kawaigirl1

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 07:25 PM

okay, I have the 8 page version.
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 10:42 PM

I have the version from the book, A Charlie Brown Christmas. It is in Aflat and is 4 pages with most of it repeated. It appears to be either an exact transcription of the Guaraldi recording or VERY similar.
Posted by: ShiroKuro

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:15 PM

Oh my gosh, I forgot about this group! Ok, I'm trying to find the music too, count me in.

And DK, it's not fun we're talking about, it's insanity. My piano teacher is going to think I've gone round the bend, bringing in new music (all of it over 5 pages) every week!
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:15 PM

I have a 6-page version in A-flat. It's in a compilation edited by Tom Roed called Advanced Piano Solos Complete vol. 1, but the piece itself just says "by Vince Guaraldi" and has a 1965 copyright by Felfar Music. So I don't know if it's the "original" or not. There is one repeat that starts on page 2, line 3, and goes through almost all of page 3, so maybe that is the difference between the 6- and 8-page versions.

It looks a little scary to me, I have to say, especially the very first notation which shows a metronome setting of 138.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:43 PM

Monica, that's the one I have too! It's a transcription by Tom Roed, and it's in the same key, but he adds his own flair to it, extra riffs and jazzy runs. It looks more complicated than the original 8-page one by Guaraldi.

I also have the full 8-page version and the 4-page one that TX-Dennis mentioned. The 8-page version has two intervals: the first with a bossa-nova feel and the second with a swing feel. The 4-page version has only the swing interval. But the rest of the measures are exactly the same!

I was so in love with this piece many years ago that I ordered every piano version I could find, even the simplified C-major version (and that's the only one I can play!). They weren't any fancy sheet music sites yet then where we could preview before buying, unlike now, unfortunately! \:\)
Posted by: Mr Super-Hunky

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/13/06 11:44 PM

I want to play this song too; but what version???, it seems that there's plenty-o-versions circulating around.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 06:33 AM

I'm going to the store today. We do need to make a decision on what version.
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 07:46 AM

Here is the version that I bought recently:
Linus & Lucy (HL.352295)
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 10:29 AM

dk, that's the same as the one I have from the book. The book is just printed a bit smaller making for 4 pages rather than 5. If everyone decides to work on a different version will this still work? Should we all get the same version or are different versions okay?
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 11:06 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by dvdiva:
Monica, that's the one I have too! It's a transcription by Tom Roed, and it's in the same key, but he adds his own flair to it, extra riffs and jazzy runs. It looks more complicated than the original 8-page one by Guaraldi.
[/b]
[Grows pale at the phrases "extra riffs and jazzy runs" and "more complicated than the original," and scampers right off to buy a different version.]

Thanks, dvdiva, for clearing that up. Once I located it last night, I took a few minutes to dabble with the right hand, and I was playing stuff I sure didn't remember from the recording! That must be those extra riffs and runs. I definitely do NOT want to learn that one.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 12:26 PM

Just picked up my copy... the same as dk21208's Linus and Lucy...HL00352295 in A flat the HL00352295 is above the bar code on the back of the score.[/b]

Relax Monica/dvdiva.. lets get some color back in Monica's complexion .. it looks a lot easier than what Monica/dvdiva are looking at. (I hope )
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 12:38 PM

Okay, I just ordered that version. And looking at the sample page, it DOES look quite a bit more do-able than the Roed transcription. Phew! Sheetmusicplus says I won't get it for 4-8 days, though. \:\(
Posted by: Agilita

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 02:57 PM

Just received my Linus and Lucy today. The number y'all quoted matches but mine is 9 pages long? Haven't had a chance to play it yet but can't wait.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/14/06 03:22 PM

The cover is page one ;\) Score starts on 2.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/15/06 08:51 AM

Started last night, worked on the first two pages (measures 1-14)…luv the bass part. Fingering seems very do-able. Touched on measures 16-21 and that will take some practice to get my fingers to work, just need to keep the speed down and work on technique. I think I need to get a hold of a recording. If I find one, I’ll post a link.

Anyone else??
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/15/06 10:00 AM

I'm still in shipping limbo. \:\(
Posted by: Kawaigirl1

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/15/06 08:08 PM

I looked at the first 2 pages and alot of the measures are repeated which makes it easier to learn. \:D
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/16/06 09:01 AM

 Quote:
I'm still in shipping limbo
Yeah, me too. It's been 10 days since my order was shipped, and 12 days since it was placed. It's never taken this long before from SheetMusicPlus, but I'm patient.

On the positive side, it's been long enough that I had forgotten what else I had ordered with my Vince. G. music. It will be like Christmas when I get the package. \:\)
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 12:21 PM

How appropriate for a piece at least tangentially associated with Christmas. \:D
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 12:54 PM

Whoo Hoo! I Linus and Lucy sheet music just arrived. The box was literally dropped at my feet (cause my piano is right by the door where they deliver packages) while I was playing through my recital piece.

I love getting new music. I bought three books in addition to the Vince G. book so It's just like Christmas!
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 01:57 PM

I'm protesting learning this piece for a number of reasons.

Number 1, Vince G. has passed and frankly, I'm of the opinion that once a musician is gone I think his/her work should become part of the public domain. This is absurd that we should pay others who had nothing to do with its creation.

Number 2, nobody posted the version that we are all to learn. There were links to several places where you could buy the music. Not interested in paying someone for something that should be free.

Number 3, I have no guarantee if any of the transcriptions are the original, even if I wanted to buy one.

Number 4, someone did post the sheet music for the Croatian Rhapsody, so I'll work that instead.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 02:48 PM

I am missing the point of your post.

you are 1. Not signed up to learn this piece
2. Not making much of an argument

If you don't want to pay for music, fine. Then don't! BUT there is a good reason why material works are copyrighted for an additional 70 years past the death of the composer. It's so their FAMILY can benifit from their work. Why should someone devote their life to composition and music with NO provisions for their family when they pass. Their family should be able to benifit from the fruits of their work, so the law was written to protect 1 generation (i.e. 70 years = avg lifespan).

You could argue by your logic that the state should be able to claim houses as soon as the owner dies. Why not? Their kids didn't work for that house. Why shouldn't it go to the state?

Copyrights were developed to motivate people to work and contribute to society. Their motivation wasn't intended to be providing a service to society, but to provide for themselves and their family. That's why musical copyrights were invented, valid, and wise.
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 06:40 PM

I'm trying to explain why I'm not signed up to learn this piece.

In my opinion, there isn't a good reason why material works are copyrighted for a time after the composer's death. They made enough money off the work when they were alive, it's time for the public at large to benefit and enjoy the work without additional expense. And I'm sure Vince's estate was plenty large for any heirs.

By the way, I worked last week and got a paycheck. And I won't be getting paid after my death for the work I did. Obviously nobody needs to have their children paid as "motivation" to work today.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 08:01 PM

By they way... Music isn't work (i.e. time ) it's A work (i.e. property). It doesn't make money itself. It's owners have to sell it and earn their own paycheck. The work you do every week is only worth that week's pay check because you are paid for your time not something you own. You can't get paid after you die, because you can't work (active verb) after you die.

If, on the other hand, you started a business and own it, you shouldn't lose the business just because you die. It should go to heirs. They should be able to keep the property of their parents and choose to sell it if they wish. That business is A work. It's something you made and constructed.

Also, what difference does it make how rich Vince was or how big his estate was? Just because one man is successfull doesn't mean anybody else has a right to limit his wealth in any manner. What about those that aren't rich and could benifit from the laws?
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 08:04 PM

Oh, can you tell I like a good old Political debate?

\:D

On a different note for a sec. I played around with this piece for over an hour (I know, cause I timed it, cause I'm going to log it, cause the Ladies are going down in the practice log challenge \:\) )

The timing of the bass through me for a loop for the first 30 minutes. I just couldn't get my hands to cooperate to play that melody. After a bit though, it finally came to me, and I started to feel the "pulse" of that part of the piece. Anybody else start the piece yet?

This is going to be a fun challenge. I think, it is going to go alot faster than I was thinking before. That section is pretty repetitive. Learn 10 measures, and you've learned 2-1/2 pages of music.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 10:28 PM

Well I've looked everywhere for my copy and can't find it, so now I have to purchase another copy.

What usually happens in these situations is that I'll find my first copy after my second copy arrives. \:D

If that does happen seebechstein, I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun. ;\)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/17/06 10:55 PM

I've been playing Linus and Lucy back in the late 1970s. (My friends called it "Charlie Brown." They did not realize the actual title.) I don't think the written music was published yet, as I searched far and wide as B.A.R.T. allowed me to (I was still in high school.) I recorded the LP onto a tape recorder, and used that as a guide.

Then Warner Bros. published "A Charlie Brown Christmas" in 1991. I bought that, but still could not get the left-hand part (where E-flat7 begins.)

It was not until Hal Leonard published the sheet music HL00352295 that I was able to completely play Linus and Lucy.

The music is not EXACTLY like on the LP recording, as it is transcribed. But, heck, it works!

If you have trouble learning this piece merely by reading, I suggest you learn it BY LISTENING.

Good luck, and have fun!
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 07:21 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
...I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun. ;\) [/b]
Thanks so much for your opinion :rolleyes: seebech'...here's mine...What a waste of time and energy to post that crap. If you don't want to buy it... THEN DON'T BUY IT AND GO ON![/b]

Opus45...let seebechstein ride his high horse.

I agree shortcirciut...the begininning is kinda easy, with all the repeat measures, played the first 2 1/2pgs be memory last night...not exact, but close...in the dark. With lessons, this is enough right now.

btw HAPPY FATHERS DAY to all the dads.
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 08:55 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
If that does happen seebechstein, I'll send my first copy to you so that you'll be able to join in the fun.[/b]
I appreciate the thought, but it isn't that I don't have four bucks. It's that I have a problem with paying people for something that they didn't create themselves.

 Quote:
Originally posted by TheVibeRAIDER:
It was not until Hal Leonard published the sheet music HL00352295 that I was able to completely play Linus and Lucy.

The music is not EXACTLY like on the LP recording, as it is transcribed. [/b]
This was my #3 reason for not buying the sheet music, I want to learn THE original version. Why can't the publishers make a perfect transcription from the original 1960s version recorded in the actual Charlie Brown Christmas special?
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 09:47 AM

seebechstein,

I am sure you will appreciate that this particular thread is for those who do[/b] want to learn to play "Linus and Lucy", not for those who don't.

If the topics you mentioned in this thread by way of your amusing protest still interest you, would you mind creating a separate thread for that discussion? It is an interesting subject, for sure, worthy of a seperate thread.

Thank you very much seebechstein.

Sincerely,
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 02:22 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Oh, can you tell I like a good old I played around with this piece for over an hour (I know, cause I timed it, cause I'm going to log it, cause the Ladies are going down in the practice log challenge \:\) )

The timing of the bass through me for a loop for the first 30 minutes. I just couldn't get my hands to cooperate to play that melody. After a bit though, it finally came to me, and I started to feel the "pulse" of that part of the piece. Anybody else start the piece yet?
[/b]
I'm still waiting for mine. It's been shipped but hasn't arrived yet.

p.s. Your post just may be the motivating force I need to register for the practice log and do my bit for the Chicks. :p
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 03:10 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Opus45:
seebechstein,

I am sure you will appreciate that this particular thread is for those who do[/b] want to learn to play "Linus and Lucy", not for those who don't. [/b]
I always want to learn. I think this thread is for me, because I want to learn the ORIGINAL, and there is no printed version of the original available, at any price.

The first page is free on the internet and I played through it many times, and it sounds fairly original. I have no idea if the original solos are transcribed correctly, and I highly suspect that they are not. If that doesn't bother anyone else, I would be surprised.

I want to sit down at the piano at Nordstroms and bang out Linus and Lucy and have people in the shoe department wondering, "Wow, did Guaraldi come back from the grave?"
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 07:58 PM

 Quote:
4
p.s. Your post just may be the motivating force I need to register for the practice log and do my bit for the Chicks. [Razz]
;) I'm glad it is, considering the "chicks" are down by just shy of 400 avg minutes per member, they need you.

Getting back to the L&N music, does anybody know how to play that "swing" section. I have absolutely no jazz or blues experience to speak of, so I really don't know how to play through that. My version has a small window that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 whole followed by an 8th, but I am having a heck of a time applying that to the actual notes.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 08:05 PM

 Quote:
I always want to learn. I think this thread is for me, because I want to learn the ORIGINAL, and there is no printed version of the original available, at any price.
I'm not going to debate whether this is true or not, cause I wouldn't be suprised if it is. I do know, however, that this site I stumbled across claims otherwise.


 Quote:
Peanuts Collector\'s Club

The Vince Guaraldi Collection (#00672486, $19.95), which is a true conversation-stopper for those folks who absolutely want to play precisely like Guaraldi. The book contains note-for-note transcriptions of four Guaraldi originals -- "Cast Your Fate to the Wind," "Christmas Time Is Here," "Linus and Lucy" and "Star Song" -- along with his arrangements of five other cuts from early albums: "Greensleeves" and "O Tannenbaum," from "A Charlie Brown Christmas"; and "Manha de Carnaval," "Outra Vez" and "Samba de Orfeu." This is the real deal, boys and girls; these nine songs take up 85 full pages, and -- unless you're a prodigy -- these aren't pieces that you'll master during the last few hours before you want to impress folks at a dinner party.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 08:57 PM

 Quote:
from seebechstein
I want to sit down at the piano at Nordstroms and bang out Linus and Lucy and have people in the shoe department wondering, "Wow, did Guaraldi come back from the grave?"
Awesome seebechstein.

My sights are so much lower than yours, really...I just want to be able to bang it out period (any version, in any department). Consider hanging with us while we struggle through "Linus and Lucy", I'm sure you'll have much to contribute (even without a paid for published version).

(and by the way, my offer stands...you have a free copy of "Linus and Lucy" for the asking)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 09:32 PM

 Quote:
This was my #3 reason for not buying the sheet music, I want to learn THE original version. Why can't the publishers make a perfect transcription from the original 1960s version recorded in the actual Charlie Brown Christmas special?
I do think the versions that are mentioned here are very accurate. It's definitely worth the money.

(Oh, and don't think that the Guaraldi heirs are in it for the money. I think they are more proud of the Grammys than money. Vince Guaraldi wasn't exactly a music superstar to the general public.)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 09:47 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Getting back to the L&N music, does anybody know how to play that "swing" section. I have absolutely no jazz or blues experience to speak of, so I really don't know how to play through that. My version has a small window that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 whole followed by an 8th, but I am having a heck of a time applying that to the actual notes.
That "window" is to let you know that you are not supposed to play the music straight out as written. The rhythm is of the "swing."

You can try to learn the notes first, and play it as written. When you get comfortable and confident, then you can play that section with the "Swing feel" just like the little window suggests.

What I did is learn the bass part (the little notes on the bass clef for the bass guitar) and not worry about the left-hand chords. I think "walking the bass" sounds better, since we're not part of a trio. If you intend to play in a jazz trio, then you can play the left-hand chords and let the bass guitar do his part!

Good luck!
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 09:56 PM

EDIT: that shows 2 8th notes as being equal to a triplet of 1 QUARTER[/b] followed by an 8th.

Apparently I have to go back and study my first Alfed's book cause I can't tell the difference between a 1/4 and whole. :p

Thanks for the reply, but I'm still a little confused by the whole thing. Are you suppose to take only groups of 8th notes, or are you suppose to apply this pattern to every kind of beat whether it be groups of 8ths or 1/4's. I'm guessing, it's more about the beat relative to the measure, not relative to the group of notes? In other words, we are just suppose to "swing" every other 8th beat?
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 10:13 PM

Here's the section I'm talking about:

Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 10:36 PM

Shortcircuit85:

I learned Linus and Lucy by ear back in the late 1970s, long before the sheet music and The Internet came out.

My classmate/bandmate loaned me the Vince Guaraldi LP albums that had different versions of Linus and Lucy. The version that was from the Charlie Brown Christmas sounded best, and I vowed to learn it, sheet music or not.

Now, as for the "swing" solo. I learned that by listening to the LP recordings. I got only the right-hand part but not the left-hand chords.

I did the same with the first solo (where E-flat7 begins.) I got most of the right-hand notes, but not the left-hand. Back then, I didn't hear any left-hand notes because appparently Vince played the left hand up around the middle C (as I have discovered in yet another version of Linus and Lucy.) Our version has the bass guitar part for the first solo, although a bit different from the recording.

My suggestion? Since I used the album recording to guide me through (due to the unavailability of the sheet music at the time) would it help that you try listening to the recording as well?
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 10:45 PM

Shortcircuit85:

BTW, your version doesn't have the left-hand chords for the "swing solo." It shows only the "walking bass."
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 10:45 PM

Actually, I bought Linus and Lucy off of Windows Media online for $0.99, but this section sounds slightly different than the sheet music. Though, it might sound like what it is suppose to if you apply the pattern correctly.

As far as figruing it out from the recording, I do not have an ear for music. As much as I love music, my ear is way off. I couldn't begin to figure something out from listening to it.
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 10:52 PM

Shortcircuit85:

After studying your version, in the "swing solo" for the right hand (RH), concentrate on learning the single notes. If you see a chord up in the treble clef, that chord (in different inversions) is written for the left hand (LH) in my music.

I hope that helps!
Posted by: Nina

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/18/06 11:56 PM

Shortcircuit--

I just messed around with the few measures you posted, and boy it sounds nothing like I remember! In fact, it sounds like carp. I'm attributing most of that to the player.

However, on the question of swing... it's something you feel more than just count. You can only swing the 8th notes, and the swing beat is basically to hold the first 8th note down longer than you really would, then shorten the second note so the entire time taken is still only two 8th note values long. They're indicating to think of it kind of like a triplet, but I've also seen 8th note swing indicated as dotted 8th-16th, if that helps you.

But again, you're not really going to count it as much as you're going to feel it. The trick is to get that left hand rock solid, four beats. That's your bass or drum line in a jazz trio... the heartbeat. No fluctuation, no swing. 1-2-3-4. Then you play the right hand in swing. Just work it out so that when a right hand note or chord is supposed to land at the same time as a note in the left hand it does-- then you can mess around with everything else. The only thing that has to remain solid is the walking bass.

It's jazz, man! Loosen up! \:\)

Anyhow, I've played it a few times, and can't get it to sound right at all. But maybe it will help you to get the idea of swing. I'm playing it pretty slowly...

Linus and Lucy - square and slowly

Linus and Lucy - swing but still slow
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 02:23 AM

Wow Shortcircuit! I can't even pretend that I learned any part of the score yet! I'm impressed that you got so far already! I think you'll be completely done before some of us even get our sheet music on our doorsteps!
Posted by: FurElise

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 11:56 AM

Hi! I can't remember if I checked in yet with this group. I've been struggling at the back of the pack in the Chopin Group so I thought that this would be a little diversion--hey this has only 4 flats--which may confuse me.

I'm just about to order the music from the link that a few of you seem to have ordered from--sheetmusicplus. Is this pretty much the version everyone has?

Well, I'm sure it will take some time to reach me so I'll just have to keep track of the posts.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 07:05 PM

Wow Nina! Thank you so much for taking the time to play and record that! I think I finally get what you're talking about. In this case, a "Recording" tells a thousand words. \:D I've been trying to nail down every single note with a countable beat, but that seems to be a big mistake! \:\)

This is probably going to take me a little while to get the hang of, but I think I understand now. Thanks again!
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 09:50 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
As far as figruing it out from the recording, I do not have an ear for music. As much as I love music, my ear is way off. I couldn't begin to figure something out from listening to it.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
Wow Nina! Thank you so much for taking the time to play and record that! I think I finally get what you're talking about. In this case, a "Recording" tells a thousand words.


I thought you didn't have an ear? ;\) :p
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 10:16 PM

\:D

Yeah, I see the irony! BUT IN MY DEFENSE... \:\)

There is big difference between transcribing music from a recording, and figuring out how to interpret something you can see in front of you from a recording.

I would add, as Nina pointed out, this doesn't sound anything like the original! I was looking at the music while listening to the orignal, and I kinda thought it sounda similar. Now I know I was wrong.

I'm thinking of buying a ear training program. Maybe I can force myself to learn and at least hear intervals if not recognize actual notes here and there.
Posted by: Nina

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/19/06 10:46 PM

Save the money, and buy (or download) sheet music for piano CDs you like to listen to.

Follow along (or try to) when you listen to the CD.

You may discover you have a better ear than you thought!
Posted by: FurElise

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 09:34 AM

Well, my order has been confirmed from sheetmusicplus so now I just have to wait for the postman--the s&h cost more than the music. What a rip. I'll have to listen to Nina's recording tonight. So I guess I've been playing swing all my life as I can't count. GRIN

Actually, I can count fine when playing the piano, but when I was playing bassoon many many moons ago, I was so in the habit of counting vocally that I was totally frustrated by the reed occupying my mouth. I could not keep time with my foot, so I'd wing it.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 09:45 AM

My copy arrived today, hurray! [wonders whether she can possibly justify taking the rest of the day off to go start playing it.]
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 09:52 AM

Nina, that was sounding cool... I hope that means your pinky is feeling better.

I have to admit I have been focused on a different piece and haven't worked very hard on Linus and Lucy yet. Sounds like I have some catching up to do.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 10:25 AM

Monica...I give you permission to leave for the rest of the day...take an attitude adjustment day.

Nina...nice job. Does anyone have a full mp3 of Linus and Lucy to listen to?
Posted by: Nina

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 10:30 AM

If there's a free digital download of the version you guys are using, I can try to record it.

Disclaimer: I played a version of L & L a few years ago--no way am I picking it up and sightreading it as a complete newbie. Don't panic! \:\)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 03:57 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I would add, as Nina pointed out, this doesn't sound anything like the original! I was looking at the music while listening to the orignal, and I kinda thought it sounda similar. Now I know I was wrong.
It's quite possible that you don't have the full music score. For example, I have the Warner Bros "A Charlie Brown Christmas" published in 1991 that has Linus and Lucy without the first verse. It only has the "swing" verse.

Now, I also have the sheet music published by Hal Leonard (HL00352295). This version has the first verse and also the "swing" verse.
Posted by: Kreisler

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 06:08 PM

Hi all, and thanks to Nina for the great demonstration.

I just thought I'd mention that the original Linus and Lucy was for a jazz trio (piano, bass, and drums.) The drums and bass are very understated, so a lot of people tend to think the whole tune is piano solo. I'd suggest listening to the original trio version - the swing section makes a lot more sense with a drummer!
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 08:32 PM

That's interesting, Kreisler; you're right--I had always thought it was a piano solo. I'm going to have to get out my Charlie Brown videotapes and listen for those drums and bass.

Okay, guys, now that my sheet music is here, I'm ready to start. I spent about 20 minutes so far this evening working on the first two pages, and I have a question. What fingering do you use for 2nd page (labeled "3" on the sheetmusic score), line 2, 2nd measure, where you've got those E-natural grace notes right after playing the E-flat? I'm doing something weird where I play the first E-flat and A-flat with my 2nd and 5th fingers, and then squeezing my thumb in to do the E-natural grace note, but it seems weird so I think it may not be the best fingering. But if I try playing the E-flat with my thumb and the grace note with my 2nd finger, it doesn't seem to fit easily.
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/20/06 09:44 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
What fingering do you use for 2nd page (labeled "3" on the sheetmusic score), line 2, 2nd measure, where you've got those E-natural grace notes right after playing the E-flat?
In the "A Charlie Brown Christmas" version, the grace notes are not transcribed in. The sheet music you have is written differently, and IMHO, is a bit trickier.

Solution: Eliminate the grace notes.

For a better explanation, have a look at the "A Charlie Brown Christmas" version. That's how I play that section. I use 1-5 for the E-flat/A-flat, and slurring into 3 for the F.

Maybe a little easier: In that section only, whenever there is F/A-flat, eliminate (or subltely play) the A-flat.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 07:09 AM

I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4 | 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2| (|marks the measure) Until I can get my fingers to work faster...I like the way that feels. Does that help??

Had a lesson last night and just started playing a little of the intro...teaches eyes got wide..."working on something??". He mentioned he has a few different FLAVORS he likes to add to that tune, so I'll try to pass along when they develop.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 10:06 AM

I'm a little bummed. I had that whole beginning section down, and I just realized yesterday, I wasn't playing this one beat correctly. Now I have to unlearn that mistake, which is hard to do!
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 10:35 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4 | 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2| (|marks the measure) Until I can get my fingers to work faster...I like the way that feels. Does that help??

[/b]
Very much so! Right now I'm playing it without the grace notes (thanks, VibeRaider!) just to get the timing down, but I'm not ready to give up on them completely so I will try adding them back in.

shortcircuit, I've done that "oops--I just discovered I was playing it wrong all along" thing before. The good news is that you discovered it now, when it will be easier to unlearn, rather than 6 months from now, when you might as well throw the towel in. \:\)
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 11:27 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I'm a little bummed. I had that whole beginning section down, and I just realized yesterday, I wasn't playing this one beat correctly. Now I have to unlearn that mistake, which is hard to do! [/b]
I think I know what section your referring too \:o
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 12:09 PM

Probably,

I'm talking about one of the main sections that everyone recognizes. I don't have the music infront of me, so I can't cite the measure, but it's the part where the left hand and right hand are out of sync for two beats. There is a 1/4 note in the left hand followed by Eb (I thinK) chord? I was playing them at the same time, so that's very ackward now to play them offset by an 8th.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 12:56 PM

YUP...thats the one, me too
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 01:03 PM

Good to know, I'm not alone \:D
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 06:46 PM

Okay, before I ask this next question, I would like to remind everybody that There Is No Such Thing As A Stupid Question.

Um, am I supposed to pedal at all on this piece?

[ducks from rotten tomatoes being thrown] Please pardon my ignorance, but you have to remember that I come from the Land of New Age, which lives and dies by the pedal. So as I started practicing "Linus and Lucy" for the first time, I merrily hit that sustain pedal just as I do for everything else that I play, and it sounded horrible. Are any of you pedalling on it?
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 06:57 PM

That's not a stupid question at all Monica!

I started pedaling on this, and I thought it sounded muddy. So I've been practicing without it myself. I don't know if this is what you are suppose to do on this song, but I'm sure you'll be glad to know you aren't the only one who's been confused about it.

I hadn't thought to ask. I'm so glad you brought it up though.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 07:47 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I'm sure you'll be glad to know you aren't the only one who's been confused about it.
[/b]
[wipes sweat from brow] Phew! Now let's just wait for an answer from the experts. I'm with you; I've been practicing without the pedal since the first horrid muddy experience.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 07:48 PM

I think it doesn't call for a pedal (but I'm not an expert!). I'm not really sure but I think jazz generally doesn't use sustain, since there are so many dissonant notes running up and down together that they'll just sound muddy. If new age lives by the pedal and long sustained notes, then maybe jazz lives by the beat and short snappy notes? I don't know, Linus and Lucy is officially my first jazz piece, and Take Five is coming up next! \:\)
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 07:49 PM

I don't think so...I haven't been (with a confused look on my face)
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:05 PM

Well, it looks like we are all on the same page (no pun intended)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:27 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Right now I'm playing it without the grace notes (thanks, VibeRaider!) just to get the timing down, but I'm not ready to give up on them completely so I will try adding them back in. [/b]
You're welcome Monica!!!

Yes, it is also smart not to give up on the grace notes completely as I'm sure you will become a little more proficient to play them later. As for me, I had already learned this piece last century without the benefit of the music score. I might have trouble adding those grace notes, due mainly to laziness! \:D
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:30 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). [/b]
Cool! Another fingering!

Where were you when I needed you before??? \:\)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:38 PM

Okay, how about this (on the subject of the grace note riffs):

1-4 E-flat/A-flat

1 slurs into E

Then 2-4 F/A-flat



Looks like the grace notes will live!!!

Where was this team when I needed them before???
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:48 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica Kern:
Um, am I supposed to pedal at all on this piece? [/b]
I wouldn't. But only in one exception: In the first verse after the opening part of the song, where the score reads N.C. then starts with G/B-flat and the E-flat7. Stop pedaling when that verse ends and the opening melody starts again.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 09:57 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by dvdiva:
jazz lives by the beat and short snappy notes[/b]
I love how you put that!

No pedal it is, then. ;\)
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/21/06 11:02 PM

Anybody notice it's alot harder to hide your mistakes without that pedal? humm...
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 12:03 AM

It's not even an issue with me, shortcircuit, because I'm just working on the first two pages HS. Whenever I try to play HT, I get thrown for a loop and everything grinds to a halt. I'm hoping it will come together. Eventually.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 01:46 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shortcircuit85:
I'm talking about one of the main sections that everyone recognizes. I don't have the music infront of me, so I can't cite the measure, but it's the part where the left hand and right hand are out of sync for two beats. There is a 1/4 note in the left hand followed by Eb (I thinK) chord? I was playing them at the same time, so that's very ackward now to play them offset by an 8th. [/b]
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
YUP...thats the one, me too [/b]
Which version are you both working with? The 4-page one from the Charlie Brown Christmas book, or the 8-page one? The screenshot of the swing section you posted earlier seems to be taken from the 4-page version.

On both 4-page and 8-page versions, the first two measures after the double-bar have slightly different left-hand patterns. In the 8-page version, pictured below, the 1st measure (after the double-bar) ends with an added 8th note (lower E) so the 2nd measure starts with both RH & LH in sync.




In the 4-page version, the 1st measure keeps the LH pattern (last 8th note tied with next), so LH & RH are not in sync at the start of the 2nd measure. I guess if you're having difficulty with it, you could try using the other version with the added 8th note! Merge the 2 versions together and use what suits you best!
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 07:08 AM

The 8 page version dvdiva. That section is a little tricky and needs to be played reeeeeeeal slooooow to get the timing down. It will come, honest.


Whats everyone doing for the slur note section...fingering?
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 07:25 AM

I'm doing exactly what Monica was doing (before she decided to give a rest! ;\) ). 2nd & 5th fingers, then thumb for grace note, then 3rd & 5th fingers.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 08:34 AM

DVDIVA, I'm looking at your posted pic, and it looks the same as the 4 page version which I am playing. If, my memory is correct (cause I"m not looking at the score right now), I have that 8th note as well. I definitely don't have any grace notes, but I have the same right/left melody.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 09:12 AM

There's a veeery *slight* difference! Probably not audible when played at regular speed anyway. \:\)

Here's a pic of the 1st two rows of the 4-page version. The difference isn't very noticeable and at first glance, looks exactly the same. Fooled me too! ;\)

Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 10:03 AM

oh! Boy, I had to look at one than the other about 10 times before I could figure it out.

I stand corrected.. I think I am going to edit my edition to look like the 8 page edition. Though, I want to play both and figure out which I think sounds better.
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 10:22 AM

I personally think that the difference is too subtle to be picked up except by an active listener.

At least in that section.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 11:24 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
Thanks so much for your opinion :rolleyes: seebech'...here's mine...What a waste of time and energy to post that crap. If you don't want to buy it... THEN DON'T BUY IT AND GO ON![/b]

Opus45...let seebechstein ride his high horse.
[/b]
seebechstein[/b] ...this has bothered me since I posted and would like to say...SORRY, (just venting) I hope I didn't offend you to much or drive you away from this thread. Everyone could benefit from your participaition here (and that includes ME)

Monster M&H
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 11:49 AM

Monster M&H:
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 10:56 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
seebechstein[/b] ...this has bothered me since I posted and would like to say...SORRY, (just venting) I hope I didn't offend you to much or drive you away from this thread. Everyone could benefit from your participaition here (and that includes ME)

Monster M&H [/b]
Oh, no problem M&H. You're nothing compared to those people who get so angry when I say that I've played a lot of cruddy Steinways. I really p!ss off those people! They act like it's their own fault that the Steinways I've seen are cruddy. I still want to try the one at Nordstroms. But not because of the name, because I need the experience of playing in public. I think eventually I'd get used to it.

Nice that dvdiva posted the first page of the sheet music; would have been a lot better if the other 7 pages were posted! Anyway I broke down and ordered The Vince Guaraldi Collection off of Amazon. It was like $13 and I kindof feel like I prostituted myself, paying like that -- but on the other end of the transaction -- what would that be called, "johning" myself? I feel so dirty. Y'all are way ahead of me on working this piece, I'm sure.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 11:37 PM

 Quote:
Y'all are way ahead of me on working this piece, I'm sure.
Nah... you'll catch up in no time. I gather from the title, you're getting that version that claims to be the "note-for-note" transcription? I'd be interested to hear if you notice any big differences in the transcription. Obviously, there are already some differences in the versions we've been using amoung our group. Please keep us posted.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/22/06 11:53 PM

I am having BIG problems playing the first two pages HT. I can play them HS no problem and even at something approaching the correct tempo. But I just can't get them together. \:\(

My latest strategy is to play just the melody note of the right hand and attempt to get the rhythm down on HT before playing all the notes. I am making progress, but it is darned slow. [wonders if maybe Croatian Rhapsody might have been easier to tackle.]
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 12:04 AM

I had some trouble playing HT when I started it too. I got over it by playing the Left hand part over and over and slowely incorporating the right hand after about a dozen or so repetitions with the left hand first. I also exaggerated the 1/4 notes in the bass progression to get the "pulse" of that section down.

Keep at it, once it clicks you'll get that Ureka sensation! Then you'll be asking why did it take so long? \:D Well, at least that's what I did :p
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 12:13 AM

I guess I cheated a bit :p , since I already learned the simplified C-major version of this several years ago. So now I already have the rhythm, but I need to re-learn it in a different key and of course with a LOT more notes! Plus two intervals which I haven't started on yet!
Posted by: FurElise

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 09:04 AM

Just wanted to say hi. I'm waiting my music to come. How long can an envelope take?

Does anyone have a link to a free mp3 file or otherwise so that I can listen to what it's suppose to sound like. I can't recall if anyone previously posted such a link. Thanks!
Posted by: fingers

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 10:03 AM

My friend Seebechstein,

You've got it wrong. I for one, don't get upset if you feel you've played "cruddy Steinways". That is your opinion, and so be it. No problem with that. It is, however, your PATTERN of personal attacks against the PEOPLE who chose to purchase a Steinway that I find puzzling. Can you see that?

Do you not agree that your REPEATED comments to the effect that S&S OWNERS have more $$$ than musical sense crosses the line between harmless opinion and vindictiveness? I guess not.

While you may delight in thinking that you "****" us off, you actually come across as one who is jealous and begrudging. Give that some thought please.

BTW, I can play Linus and Lucy fluently, and, offer help to anyone here. That includes you Seebechstein. \:\)

fingers
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 10:50 AM

Fur Elise, DVDIA posted the first page of the 8 page version. You could definetly start learning that intro page before your music comes. Those first 6-7 measures are repeated quite a bit, so it would be worth learning now.

If you are getting the 4 page version, just let me know, and I'll get you a temporary printable version which I had scanned. I don't mind if you've already purchased the music.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/23/06 07:48 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by seebechstein:
Nice that dvdiva posted the first page of the sheet music[/b]
Thanks! But the 1st page of all sheet music is usually free on digital sheet music stores. They post a preview which you can print and listen to. The picture I posted (the one with the "Reproduction Prohibited" watermark ;\) ) is from SheetMusicPlus's site.
Posted by: seebechstein

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 08:17 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by fingers:
It is, however, your PATTERN of personal attacks against the PEOPLE who chose to purchase a Steinway that I find puzzling. Can you see that? [/b]
I do not attack specific musicians who made a selection based on what felt and sounded good to them. I do make a generalization (that perhaps isn't true for many people on this forum) to say that people buying Steinways frequently have more money than talent, and I stand by that generalization.

What I see is you trolling constantly, following me around the forum and trying to pick a fight.

 Quote:
Originally posted by fingers:
you actually come across as one who is jealous and begrudging. Give that some thought please.
[/b]
I am not jealous of anyone who owns a Steinway. In fact, just the opposite!

But then again, I've never played a Hamburg D. Adrian says this is the piano to die for, so it obviously is a very different piano than the various Ls, Ms, and Os I've come across.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 08:37 AM

Is it too much to ask that these very interesting discussions which have nothing to do with learning "Linus and Lucy" be taken up in different threads?

Aren't these discussions bordering on hijacking the threads?

Please take these conversations to a separate thread.

Thank you very much.
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 09:26 AM

I'm not officially a part of this group, but I decided to order the 8 page sheet music and I've been working hard. I think I have a pretty good handle on most of the music, except the last few measures of the jazz section.

If someone has it down, it would be nice to hear their slow version of the jazz section. Even better, the whole thing. I can't access Nina's file from page 3, which was very helpful when I could hear it. I keep getting an error message when trying to download it.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 09:33 AM

Hey, icekid767, if you've got a "pretty good handle on most of the music," you're way ahead of a lot of us and are now an "official" member of the group. \:\) I wish I could help you out with a recording, but seeing as I am still stuck on getting the first two pages HT, it will be a very very long time before I get anything recordable. Perhaps fingers could post a recording for us.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 10:01 AM

icekid767,

One of the reasons we're getting such an early start on this piece is in hopes of finishing it before Christmas.

But now that you are officially part of the group, would you mind if we asked you for some recordings at some point? We have found in other groups, that recordings at half speed (and even slower) are very helpful to those working to get these pieces off the ground.

Any recordings you would be willing to share with us would be very, very appreciated...for sure!
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 10:59 AM

Thank you Monica. I would have signed up, but I lost my password until today.

I do not have any recording equipment. I suppose I could download some free recording software off the net. It would sound crappy, but if it helps I will do it.

On the other hand, when I say I have a pretty good handle on it, I mean my progress is steady. I have the reapeated part down (because I used to mess around with that back in the day). I could play page 3-4 slowly and most of the swing stuff, but as i said, I need help with the last part of the swing stuff.

I'd be happy to help if you could help me with recording equipment or software.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 11:03 AM

Search the archives for "recording" and you'll get a slew of (sometimes contradictory) advice. The easiest way, if you don't care about professional quality recordings (and we don't), is to buy a cheap microphone and plug it in your laptop (if you have one, or move your computer over near the piano if you don't), and download audacity (free) from the web. A bit of trial and error and you'll be recording stuff in no time.
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 11:52 AM

I'll try that and then I'll have something by the end of the day, if not sooner. I also have to figure out how to use that free filesharing thing. I'm pretty new to this stuff. I don't mean to hijack this thread. I'll go check this out and try my best.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 02:33 PM

I'm glad you're in IceKid...

I haven't spent a lot of time on the swing part either yet. I'm still trying overcome the mistake I taught myself in the main section. It is a part I am hoping someone else will get completely and post. Nina's recording was very helpful, but it still just doesn't sound right!
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 04:45 PM

Well, I tried to make this thing work, but I can't figure out how to save and send playable files. Instead, I'll just practice the song. As soon as I figure it out, I will post a link.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 05:24 PM

I did say "lots of trial and error," remember? ;\)

When you download audacity, make sure to download the Lame utility as well (they have a link to it on the audacity site) so you can convert your files to mp3's.
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 08:18 PM

Here goes. As I said, it's a work in progress, but it's hard to keep a slow beat, so there is no rhythm. I hope this helps. Did I mention the mistakes? I'll make more excuses later.

First two pages
http://www.savefile.com/files/9947176

Part of page 3 and 4
http://www.savefile.com/files/7551047

Part of the swing section. the rest I still need work on
http://www.savefile.com/files/3178678
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 08:25 PM

Sounds great, icekid! I was most impressed by how easily you managed those tricky grace notes.

Are you recording off a digital or acoustic piano? The recording quality was very clear.

[thinks that she needs to put in some serious practice time to catch up to icekid.]
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 08:51 PM

Thank you Monica, I've been obsessed with this piece, but I hope to have it ready by Christmas. It still needs work and I hope that I'm playing it correctly.

I was surprised with the quality myself. It's a Yamaha CLP 130 (I think) and I placed my laptop next the piano using the built in microphone.

Thanks for the helpful info on the recording stuff. It took me a couple of hours to figure it out. Not as long as I had thought, though.
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/24/06 09:55 PM

Thanks icekid

It's tough to play it at a slower tempo isn't it?

Very glad you're in this group, you'll be a real asset, for sure.

I "dabbled" with this piece years ago, can't find my music & haven't yet ordered my replacement copy so I'm a bit behind in this group.

We appreciate your willingness to share the recordings with us. It will be interesting to share in your progress as well. Thanks again!
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/25/06 12:17 AM

No problem. Had I had more patience, I could have given you a better and more consistent sample. I'll try again in about two weeks. The fact remains, I'm not sure if I'm playing the swing section right, but I'll worry about the tune when I have the piece memorized. The pauses I make is me looking at the notes and I'm not the greatest sight reader, either. It is easier to keep the tempo if played a bit faster, like you said.
Posted by: dvdiva

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/25/06 01:31 AM

Thank you icekid! Very helpful! I'm learning the 1st interlude now and will refer to your recording to get the feel of how it sounds. Thanks! \:\)
Posted by: FurElise

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/25/06 09:31 PM

Icekid, many thanks. I'm listening to your recording right now. It sounds terrific. I just got my copy yesterday and have been playing the bass. I haven't try hands together--I'm having fun just playing what is my all-time favorite Peanuts piece. :3hearts:

But, then I remember that I must also practice my chopin Raindrop.

I'm happy to be on my way with this piece. \:\)
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/26/06 07:21 AM

Monday morning...I seem to be having problems downloading icekid's files...is taking 4ever...anyone else experience any problems??
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/27/06 07:40 AM

Finally got those files to download. Nice job.

I'm going to try to record this week end and post my mistakes for everyone and myself to critique.

Have a question, where the "Swing Feel" starts...it has a N.C. below it...what does that mean. Have searched the net with no luck.
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/27/06 09:02 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
Have a question, where the "Swing Feel" starts...it has a N.C. below it...what does that mean. Have searched the net with no luck. [/b]
N.C. = No Chord. To signify a series of notes to be played without accompaniment.

See the link: No Chord
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 06/28/06 09:04 AM

Dahhhh...that makes too much sense, THANKS
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/03/06 05:20 PM

Linus & Lucy

OK heres how NOT to play it... \:D
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/03/06 11:59 PM

Not bad, Monster. Looks like you're a bit ahead of me at this point, but I'm gaining on you. \:D Oh, okay, I'm awake now. What was that I was dreaming about?

Seriously, though, you've got the speed just about right. A little unevenness, but I'm sure you'll get that ironed out. Sounds good right now, and you'll have it seriously nailed way before the holidays. I hope I will too, but I'm not sure yet. I'm not quite up to speed, but I can play all the right notes (some of the time anyway.)
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/04/06 12:05 AM

Of course, you skipped the hard part. I can relate. I can play it pretty solidly hands seperate, but together is a challenge. SLOW and accurate practice is the key, I think, or maybe it's because that's all I can manage in that section.
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/04/06 12:10 AM

Hey everybody in the U. S., have a safe, sane, and (more or less) sober Independence Day! I bought a few fireworks for the family get-together at the in-laws tomorrow night. They had a half price sale. I didn't know why until I watched the news tonight. The county banned fireworks use because of the drought conditions in one of our local counties. Fortunately, the in-laws reside in the other county where they are (at least I think)legal.
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/04/06 12:12 AM

Sigh, I thought I'd outgrown this habit of posting several in a row. It's kind of like talking to yourself. It may be an intelligent conversation, but other people look at you funny. \:D
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/05/06 01:21 PM

Good job, Monster M&H! You are way ahead of me on this piece.

Doesn't this piece seem tailor-made for the M&H with the powerful low bass line? It sounds great.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/05/06 01:27 PM

First off...welcome back, I hope you had a nice vaca!!! and yes it is tailor made for the M&H. I had the neices' 2 little ones at the house over the weekend and played it for them... and the 4yr old spurts off...hey, thats Charle Brown...must have played it pretty close.

Thanks...
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/06/06 01:07 PM

Here's an update. It's the full song, but with a bunch of mistakes. The hissing in the background is a rattle snake hiding behind my piano. He's harmless.

http://www.savefile.com/files/3683044
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 11:45 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
I've been playing with E-flat/A-flat 2-4, F/A-flat 3-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4 | 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 1/3/4, 3/4, 2| (|marks the measure) Until I can get my fingers to work faster...I like the way that feels. Does that help??

Had a lesson last night and just started playing a little of the intro...teaches eyes got wide..."working on something??". He mentioned he has a few different FLAVORS he likes to add to that tune, so I'll try to pass along when they develop. [/b]
Retract...playing with E-flat/A-flat 1-4, F/A-flat 2-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4 | 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4, 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4.

Anybody else?? Is everyone still practicing??
Posted by: Opus45

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 12:02 PM

 Quote:
Is everyone still practicing??
I just received my score in the mail last week. You guys are way ahead of me.

I'm concentrating on a few other pieces now, and have this one on the back burner. I'll be sure to read through all the posts in the thread once I really get going on L&L.

I'm hoping to be around to bring up the rear. ;\)
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 04:06 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
Retract...playing with E-flat/A-flat 1-4, F/A-flat 2-4 using 1 for the slur note(E). I also have been only slurring the first note of each group...example 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4 | 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4, 1/4, 1/2/4, 2/4. [/b]
Heehee, sounds like mine! \:D \:D \:D
 Quote:
Originally posted by TheVibeRAIDER posted on June 21, 2006:
Okay, how about this (on the subject of the grace note riffs):

1-4 E-flat/A-flat

1 slurs into E

Then 2-4 F/A-flat [/b]
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 04:09 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by icekid767:
Here's an update. It's the full song, but with a bunch of mistakes. The hissing in the background is a rattle snake hiding behind my piano. He's harmless.

http://www.savefile.com/files/3683044 [/b]
Cute recording icekid!

One suggestion: Get rid of the rattlesnake and your song will improve much better! \:D
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 06:14 PM

yea, viberaider...I think were doing the samething
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/08/06 07:18 PM

yes, the hissing must go. hopefully I can figure this thing out. is there a chord that I can hook directly from my Yamaha CLP130 to the Laptop? I'm assuming there's a cheap solution.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/09/06 01:25 PM

icekid, I just tried to listen to your recording, but savefile was telling me it would take 26 minutes to download, so it must be very very slow this afternoon. I'll try again later.

I am still practicing this piece, but I have to admit I am getting very discouraged. I can now play the first two pages HT, but it doesn't sound easy and relaxed the way Guaraldi makes it, and it's definitely too slow. I have tried playing the hard section RH only, and that has been a disaster. I can only recognize small portions of it from the recording; the rest of what I play is a dissonant mess.

I hate to give up... and this has been one of my aspiration pieces from way before I even bought my first piano. But I don't know if I'm at a level where I can learn this piece adequately now. I'm thinking of following Monster M&H's strategy of just working on the familiar melody part, trying to get that to sound decent, and then skip to the ending...and leave the hard part to tackle again in a year or so.

Is that wimping out too much?
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/09/06 02:27 PM

Monica, I wouldn't give up that easily. That's how I started out. I had a bit of a head start on the melody though, which has allowed me to focus more on the solo parts.

I would just keep playing it slowly and gradually pick up the pace.

If not for you, do it for the children:)

Everytime I play it for someone for the first time, they always smile and say..."Hey, it's the Snoopy song!"
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/10/06 10:57 PM

icekid, I now had the chance to listen to your recording, and I am very impressed. Even if you had a head start, you still have gotten this piece practically down in a very short time!

...and, okay, I won't give up easily. I'll just give up in a long agonized stretch of self-doubt and despair. \:D
Posted by: icekid767

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/10/06 11:56 PM

Thank you Monica. My secret is self-hypnosis that my mother taught me. It gets rid of the pain in the fingers and wrists after 10 hours of straight practice. Now I play 11 hours straight:) And no, I don't stop to eat. Should I get help?

Actually, I do like to play for hours (2-4), because it is therapeutic for me. If I'm not doing so well on a song. I play it slowly and correctly a few times and let the central nervous system process it for a day or two and then come back to it. If that doesn't work, then I bang my head against the wall and forget who I am for a half hour. That's a quick way to forget about your problems for a while.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/17/06 10:09 AM

Hows everyone doing????

bump
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/17/06 10:12 AM

[wonders if she can pretend she didn't see this post.]

I'm stalled. I've been making good progress on God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen and struggling on Linus & Lucy, so I've been focusing my time and effort on GRYMG instead.
Posted by: Rico

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/18/06 07:37 AM

Got my copy a couple days ago (eight page). About 7 years ago I had downloaded a MIDI transposed score that made L&L sound even worse than Monster M&H's example. I had not played it since (because I was in school without a piano).

It's good to have a real score and my own piano. If I could only choose what I will practive every day. I get distracted by six or seven pieces, but I will try to push through the jazzy sections of the piece.

Good luck! R.
Posted by: Shortcircuit85

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/18/06 08:20 AM

Linus and Lucy, what's that?

*Andrew hopes he can rationalize his excuse*

I've pretty much focused my attention on my recital piece. I just don't seem to make much progress on several pieces at once, so I haven't been practicing this one much lately either. I think I'll be more motivated the closer we get to Christmas.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/18/06 08:37 AM

Rico..."downloaded a MIDI transposed score that made L&L sound even worse than Monster M&H's example." HEY...lol I'll try to record an updated sample...

Shortcircuit85...I know what ya mean...I have just 2 pieces I'm working on right now - L&L being 1 - and I find it hard to devote time to the harder sections. I do have the first part down pretty good (at least in my own mind).
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/26/06 12:05 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
Hows everyone doing???? [/b]
Okay, Monster...

I have completed Linus and Lucy. Yes, I mentioned that before, but this Group introduced me to try the song a little different from what I had already learned. That should count for something -- I hope -- for I had to de-program my hand and adjust to the more-efficient fingerings mentioned in this study (at least for me.)

Disclaimer: I know for a fact that I DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS VINCE, but do I win a little something?[/b] \:D

Oh, if I could record for you I wish I could. I have Cakewalk's Music Creator (USB) connected to my P-120, which I'm still trying to learn.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/26/06 10:32 AM

Congratulations, VibeRaider! That's impressive. You should be able to record pretty easily with your P120, so I hope you keep trying. I'd like to hear your version.

As for me, well, L&L is on the back burner where it's been the last two years. And where it will be for maybe the next two years. :p The progress I was making was just too darn slow, and I decided I'd rather spend my time practicing pieces I was actually getting somewhere with.

Where's a smiley waving a surrender flag when you need one?
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/26/06 12:20 PM

Good God Man...lets hear it, record...record...


Nice job, so what's next on the list? and did I mention record it? so us S L O W folk can learn something...
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/28/06 09:14 AM

\:\( teacher pointed out I was off!!! So now I'm trying to un-learn and re-learn... bummer
Posted by: Agilita

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/28/06 01:28 PM

 Quote:
teacher pointed out I was off!!! So now I'm trying to un-learn and re-learn... bummer
Hmmmm. I don't have a teacher. I guess that means I could be off and not know it?
Posted by: TheVibeRAIDER

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/28/06 08:03 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Monster M&H:
\:\( teacher pointed out I was off!!! So now I'm trying to un-learn and re-learn... bummer [/b]
Where are you off?
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 07/29/06 06:53 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Agilita:
 Quote:
teacher pointed out I was off!!! So now I'm trying to un-learn and re-learn... bummer
Hmmmm. I don't have a teacher. I guess that means I could be off and not know it? [/b]
I was OFF way before I had a teach...

The right hand part I was slurring the AbC -the third/forth notes- rather than playing separate. I'll try to record -although I have to work on wife’s car and home chores- the two different ways. He also mentioned to really bring out the LH, to listen to a recording and pay attention to the bass and rhythm. Our regular lessons are Over the Rainbow and Blues/walking bass with improvising RH fills
Posted by: Mario Ajero

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 08/03/06 05:55 PM

At the request of Dean (dk21208), I'm posting up a recording that I made of Linus & Lucy from my podcast. I personally don't think it's anything special, but if it helps out anyone, then knock yourselves out with it.

http://marioajero.blogspot.com/2005/12/linus-and-lucy.html
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 08/04/06 09:45 AM

You may not think it's special, Mario, but I have tried and failed to play that piece, so I beg to differ! Great job.
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 08/04/06 10:18 AM

Sounds Great...thanks
Posted by: dk21208

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 08/04/06 02:17 PM

Mario,

Thanks for the response. Personally, I always think it is a benefit to hear different interpretations of the same piece of music. You never know when inspiration is going to hit...
Posted by: TX-Dennis

Re: Linus and Lucy Study Group - 08/04/06 09:24 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Mario Ajero:
At the request of Dean (dk21208), I'm posting up a recording that I made of Linus & Lucy from my podcast. I personally don't think it's anything special, but if it helps out anyone, then knock yourselves out with it.

http://marioajero.blogspot.com/2005/12/linus-and-lucy.html [/b]
Very nice, Mario. I wish I could get it to that point. The main theme is relatively easy. It's that swing bit that's so difficult to master.