New member, so glad I found you guys! :)

Posted by: RaGe

New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 05:41 AM

Hello everyone,

I am returning to studying piano and this time I mean it!

I started at 14 but I have always been cursed with bad teachers and a stubborn mind. I have never done any classical (didn't want to) but have studied jazz extensively until the age of 23. My technique is poor and I've hidden behind vertical jazz harmony to mask it: play some nice fat chords to impress the audience but in substance I don't have much going on the technical side.

Now at the tender age of 34, being more mature and having worked on myself I am ready to jump back at the piano and this time work harder than ever to be able to become a "good" pianist. Classical music is something I want to explore now that I have wisen up!

I am very pleased to have found such a forum where adults beginners can share their experience and be motivated among themselves.

This morning I dusted off the old Hanon book and did the 1st exercise at a very slow tempo in all twelve keys. It felt so good! I can feel that I just a little reconnected with the keyboard, amazing.

However I'd like to have some advice on how I can go over the Hanon. I plan to do 1 exercise a day (in all 12 keys) at the same tempo until I reach #20, then start over with #1 at a faster tempo. Is this a good approach?

Looking forward to your replies.

Cheers,

Regis
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 05:54 AM

Welcome to the forum, RaGe!

I avoid Hanon like the plague ;\) so I can't offer any informed advice on your approach, except to say to take it easy at first so as to avoid injury.

I personally think the best way to learn the classical literature is through formal lessons. Do you have a teacher or do you plan to get one?

Check out our recital threads (stickied at top of the AB forum page). I hope you'll consider participating in the next recital... I'd love to hear some 'nice fat' jazzy chords. \:\)
Posted by: JDelmore

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 05:54 AM

Ooooo...you're gonna bring out the Hanon-haters on this one...

But it is useful if you can endure the tedium, and your plan seems reasonable.
Posted by: Monica K.

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 05:56 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by JDelmore:
Ooooo...you're gonna bring out the Hanon-haters on this one...
[/b]
:D \:D He already did and I beat you to it. ;\)
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 06:04 AM

I figured that would happen as a "hanon" forum search brings many interesting and colorful posts about Hanon.
But that's all I have right now at my disposal and you know what, I kind of like it! I've found that singing the exercise helps a lot to keep the focus and makes the pill easier to digest if you will.
I want to find a good teacher that will adress my very weaknesses, but like I said I've had my share of bad instructors so I am a bit wary.

Thanks for your very warm welcome, I'll check out the recital thingie ;\)

Regis
Posted by: keyboardklutz

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 06:11 AM

With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....!
Posted by: Les Koltvedt

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 06:41 AM

Been doing Hanon since Mayish of this year...on 11 and 12 right now...we try to do 2 a week...if one of them is a little slow, we carry over to the next week - or if I don't practice....

I try to go thru all the previous lessons each week. My teacher says the REALLY GOOD players can do the whole book in about an hour...omg

btw welcome to PW...
Posted by: cruiser

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 07:20 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
...agreed!

If you really want a good - injury free - technique, Google Peter Feuchtwanger.

btw, I like your new avatar kbk - an improvement, if I may be so bold \:\)
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 08:02 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by cruiser:


If you really want a good - injury free - technique, Google Peter Feuchtwanger.

From Peter Feuchtwanger's website:

 Quote:
The Video with the "Piano Exercises for Curing Playing Disorders and for Acquiring a Functional and Natural Approach to Piano Playing" with an appendent book will be puplished in spring 2009. A german version has been published in March 2004 and can be ordered imediately.
Didn't find much about Feuchtwanger ... and I don't read German. \:\( Where can I learn more?
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 08:03 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
Really? Like I said I have no opinion on Hanon's benefits or lack thereof. So what method would you recommend?
Posted by: YD

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 09:22 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by RaGe:
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
Really? Like I said I have no opinion on Hanon's benefits or lack thereof. So what method would you recommend? [/b]
First of all, welcome to the forum.
No comment re: hanon (I am one of the "hanon haters"). When you say "method," that's probably a little misguided. I suggest relying on a good teacher, who can pinpoint the poor technique and suggest etudes/exercises that would correct it. If you must read "technique" book (I am not familiar with the one suggested above), I recommend Fink and/or Sandor:
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Piano-Te...19954780&sr=8-2
and
http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Playing-Moti...19954832&sr=1-1
(there are even accompanying DVDs, which I am not familiar with)
Posted by: keyboardklutz

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 09:35 PM

I have attended a Lister-Sink workshop, a Fink, an Alan Frazer, a Peter Feuchtwanger, many Carola Grindea and others too numerous... What ever you can get on Peter or Carola is highly recommendable. I believe they all have DVD's. I know Peter does workshops in London and Germany. Thanks cruiser, I don't think anyone understood the last one - kinda too Buddhist.
Posted by: cruiser

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 09:45 PM

Welcome RaGe! \:\)

Yes, Peter Feuchtwanger's excellent dvd is in English. You can only order the dvd - understandably - with the accompanying explanatory book which, as mentioned, is currently only available in German. Until the whole book is available in English in 2009 you can, however, order a translation - at no extra cost - of the most important sections, namely those relating directly to - and fully explaining - the exercises themselves. This is what I did.
Posted by: Seaside_Lee

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/28/08 11:12 PM

Yes Hanon...erm...don't they makes cameras or typewriters or something? :p

Welcome to the forum RaGe

(note to self: I just know I need to know more about hiding behind vertical jazz harmony cause if anything it just sounds cool)


Lee \:D
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 01:25 PM

;\)

Try this C7#11 chord:

LH: C - E - Bb
RH: D- F# - A

Phat and vertical. But I can't play the most basic classical piece.
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 01:36 PM

Thank you folks for your suggestions - Doing some sloooow Hanon in the meantime, it's better than nothing I guess!
Posted by: Swingin' Barb

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 01:55 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by RaGe:
;\)

Try this C7#11 chord:

LH: C - E - Bb
RH: D- F# - A

Phat and vertical. But I can't play the most basic classical piece. [/b]
Hey RaGe - You are speaking my language. Just flat that D in the RH and you will have an even more delicious sound. \:D
Posted by: Peyton

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 02:28 PM

I think your plan for the Hanon sounds admirable. Another thing you can do is change the downbeat on the notes (rather than the first note put the downbeat on the second then the third etc.) As a real challenge try the exercises in different keys. It was said that Liszt could play anything and make it sound interesting. I still use Hannon to work on limbering up etc. and always keep that in mind. \:\)
Posted by: SantaFe_Player

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 02:29 PM

When I was taking at the university, I did Hanon exercises, too. My professor did not want me to waste my time doing each exercise in all twelve keys. Moreover, I'd work one exercise (in two keys, three at most) for a few weeks. The aim was accuracy and speed. I would start metronoming it slowly, then a few speeds per day, work it gradually up to maybe 132 or 144 per quarter note, in both keys. When I could do this reliably, with relaxed hand, fingers and wrist, and accurately in both keys, then I would start the next exercise. I did work all twelve major scales every day, up and down 1, 2, 3 and 4 octaves with the metronome. Never faster than I could play the most difficult one accurately. Gradually these all got faster as well.
Posted by: Shey

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 06:12 PM

Hi all,

I have not even seen 'Hannon'. I presume it is a practise book to build skills.

I have been learning for 2 years and my teacher has never suggested Hannon.

Can someone tell me if I am missing something important?

I am learning from a childs book, which I now feel I am progressing with.

At first I was a bit put out, but feel my progress is only hindered by my lack of practise time. I have only 20 minutes a day for real practise.

My teacher says I am doing ok, but I feel my progress is very slow. So is Hannon my answer?

Thanks for any comments.

Shey
Posted by: Peyton

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/29/08 06:40 PM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Shey:
Hi all,

I have not even seen 'Hannon'. I presume it is a practise book to build skills.

I have been learning for 2 years and my teacher has never suggested Hannon.

Can someone tell me if I am missing something important?

I am learning from a childs book, which I now feel I am progressing with.

At first I was a bit put out, but feel my progress is only hindered by my lack of practise time. I have only 20 minutes a day for real practise.

My teacher says I am doing ok, but I feel my progress is very slow. So is Hannon my answer?

Thanks for any comments.

Shey [/b]
There are a lot of practice books out there. Hannon is just one of the older and better known. Some like it and some don't. If I were you... just for the heck of it I'd buy it and try it. It's not expensive and ANY reading is good practice. If you don't like it... it's a good fire starter for the woodstove... \:\)
Posted by: TrapperJohn

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/30/08 05:54 AM

 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
Yes Hanon...erm...don't they makes cameras or typewriters or something? :p


Lee [/b]
Typewriter? What's a typewriter? ;\)

Regards, JF
Posted by: RaGe

Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :) - 08/30/08 11:36 AM



A music typewriter. Imagine that!