Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8

Posted by: debrucey

Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/28/12 08:27 PM

One of my all time favourite Rachmaninoff pieces

Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/28/12 08:41 PM

Beautiful piece beautifully played.
Posted by: BruceD

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/29/12 10:21 AM

Wonderful!

Thank you!
Posted by: Derulux

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/29/12 01:38 PM

This is why I don't post recordings. wink Very nicely done.
Posted by: Tim Adrianson

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/29/12 08:58 PM

I guess my one comment in this listening is that Rachmaninoff has certainly been ill-served in being evaluated on some of his most popular works -- to name names, the C# Minor Prelude, the G Minor Prelude, and Polichinelle. To me, they represent Rachmaninoff at his worst. It is so nice to hear some of the subtle modulations and complex developmental ideas realized in his "Picture Etudes", which to me is Rachmaninoff at his most secretive, and in his best element. Thanks for sharing this!
Posted by: Cinnamonbear

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 01:05 AM

At first, I was going to say, "So, quit playing Beethoven, and keep playing Rachmaninoff." But then, I thought I'd better say, "Hey, debrucey~~How 'bout some Debussy?"

Well???
Posted by: Orange Soda King

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 01:07 AM

I don't think they represent Rachmaninoff at his worst, but I feel that they are a bit more simplistic than many of his other pieces.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 07:34 AM

I would say the C# minor is more vulgar and bombastic in an almost Lisztian sort of way. Still a good piece, but clearly the work of a young headstrong composer with more inspiration than experience or technique. The Op. 39 etudes represent him at the height of his refinement and subtlety as a composer.
Posted by: carey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
I would say the C# minor is more vulgar and bombastic in an almost Lisztian sort of way. Still a good piece, but clearly the work of a young headstrong composer with more inspiration than experience or technique. The Op. 39 etudes represent him at the height of his refinement and subtlety as a composer.

I agree - except for the "vulgar" part. grin

Unfortunately the C# minor is in the same company as Fur Elise, Fantaisie-Impromptu, Rondo alla Turca, Clair de Lune, and Moonlight 1st movement in that it is played to death (and usually quite ineptly) by beginning/intermediate students who have no business attempting it at all. And I speak from experience having been one of those students who banged through the piece as a youngster. crazy

Beautiful playing of the Opus 39 No. 8. You're raising the bar for all of us here !!!! thumb
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 06:46 PM

I mean vulgar in the best possible sense haha. If by vulgar one means the opposite of subtle and refined I can't think of a better way of describing the C# minor prelude. But that's exactly what I like about it.

I also ineptly banged through the piece as a youngster, as can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTizQWDR3M (aged 16, now hidden from my channel hehe). I performed it in the same concert as the Etude and the Chopin Ballade this tuesday, but unfortunately I didn't have the chance to record it. It would have been interesting to compare my old and current performance of it.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: carey

Beautiful playing of the Opus 39 No. 8. You're raising the bar for all of us here !!!! thumb


Thank you for saying so. I do hope however that I'm not, as Derelux claims, dissuading other people from posting their performances here.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 07:19 PM

In the right hands, even the hackneyed C# minor prelude can sound sensational:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtuMVBLEWJU

Not Rachmaninov's greatest work, but IMO far from a weak work as some have suggested.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 07:45 PM

I'm definitely not suggesting it's weak.
Posted by: pianoloverus

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
I'm definitely not suggesting it's weak.
I was thinking of another poster's comment earlier in the thread.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 11/30/12 08:27 PM

Ah I see. Well, I still think it's far from his strongest.
Posted by: BruceD

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/01/12 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: debrucey
Originally Posted By: carey

Beautiful playing of the Opus 39 No. 8. You're raising the bar for all of us here !!!! thumb


Thank you for saying so. I do hope however that I'm not, as Derelux claims, dissuading other people from posting their performances here.


Well, yes, maybe you are. I guess - for me - the reality is that I'd rather listen to and admire your performances than read critiques of mine! smile

Regards,
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/02/12 04:35 PM

Shame, I'd like to hear yours.
Posted by: wr

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 01:44 AM

Very good - thanks for uploading it.

It's a Rach favorite of mine, too, but I have to say that I've always been a bit mystified about the musical intent of the staccato sections.
Posted by: Nikolas

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 02:05 AM

Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Originally Posted By: carey

Beautiful playing of the Opus 39 No. 8. You're raising the bar for all of us here !!!! thumb


Thank you for saying so. I do hope however that I'm not, as Derelux claims, dissuading other people from posting their performances here.


Well, yes, maybe you are. I guess - for me - the reality is that I'd rather listen to and admire your performances than read critiques of mine! smile

Regards,
Bruce,

I think that this is the first time (or perhaps one of the VERY few) that I disagree with you completely!

First of all, I should say that it's your performance and eventually there isn't a "right" or "wrong" thing to do! You are free to do whatever you please and nobody should complain!

That said, I'd like to ask you why. I see what you mean and what you wrote, but that's hardly enough in my own mind. Perhaps I'm in a different position than you, but it remains that if one was to compare to what others do, nobody would ever post really (since there are thousands (millions?) of amazing recordings found on the Internet. I mean now it's Debrucey, but if it wasn't for him, it would be someone else, reaching up to Martha.

We can't have that now, can we? Pianoworld is a very civil place (with the rare exceptions), and moreover people know each other quite well somehow. You have a teacher, as far as I know, and you place your trust in him and what he does and shows you. You perform for him. (her?). So why not here?

Anyhow, this is something that while aimed at Bruce applies to lots of other people I think. and it's NOT personal at all. As I said in the beginning it's understandable and makes sense and it's within his rights. But I do think there's room for some discussion here.

______________________________

Debrucey, Sorry for derailing your thread a little bit.

I think that you performance is stellar (and so is the recording, btw. I'm glad that you have access to such wonderful recording facility (and envious as well).

While listening (and typing this) I feel that you have great control over what you do. When watching I feel that you're not moving according to the music (but that's just me and what I'm used in doing and watching).

To others that know this work a little better: Do you feel that some extra rubato and ritenuti would be appropriate? Just wondering here.

Nothing can take from the fact that this is a great recording and a great performance!
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 02:49 AM

There are certainly a few written in ralls and accels I could make more of.
Posted by: Tim Adrianson

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 08:56 AM

wr, the passages you're referring to do make musical sense to me, but not as a "sharp" staccato -- it would be more like a "half-staccato", and is intended to give a "scampering", playful quality to material previously introduced as smooth and lyrical. It's a device I've seen in a number of Rachmaninoff compositions, and I think it adds to the charm.
Posted by: debrucey

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 10:01 AM

That section is marked 'scherzando'.
Posted by: Derulux

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Originally Posted By: carey

Beautiful playing of the Opus 39 No. 8. You're raising the bar for all of us here !!!! thumb


Thank you for saying so. I do hope however that I'm not, as Derelux claims, dissuading other people from posting their performances here.


Well, yes, maybe you are. I guess - for me - the reality is that I'd rather listen to and admire your performances than read critiques of mine! smile

Regards,

I was being quasi-facetious, but certainly Bruce's comment not only cracked me up, but also rang with some truth. Well-played and well-said, sir. laugh
Posted by: wr

Re: Rachmaninoff - Etude-Tableau in D minor, Op. 39 No. 8 - 12/03/12 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Tim Adrianson
wr, the passages you're referring to do make musical sense to me, but not as a "sharp" staccato -- it would be more like a "half-staccato", and is intended to give a "scampering", playful quality to material previously introduced as smooth and lyrical. It's a device I've seen in a number of Rachmaninoff compositions, and I think it adds to the charm.


Yes, I understand all that, but somehow it still doesn't work for me. Since it's sort of a blind spot for me, I don't really understand why - that's the nature of blind spots. But I keep hoping that someday it will "click" - even listening to this performance and having a little discussion about it helps, I think. I suspect that I take the entire piece as being heavier in content that it should be, which throws it all out of whack.