THE RD-700NX Thread!

Posted by: dewster

THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 10:24 PM

Thought I'd kick this off (like KPro81 has done over at Rolandclan wink ).

Links:
http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1128

So:
- PHAIII, ivory feel, escapement (PHAIII smart, ivory dumb, escapement ?).
- SN APs built-in (smart).
- SRX expansion gone (~smart - they were dead anyway, though I like expansion).
- Some kind of simple recording (WAV?) capability (smart).
- "Sound Focus" takes the place of one of the multi-effects knobs (was this dumb / smart?).
- Same stupid joystick making it physically too long (dumb).
- Sexy new screen (smart, though I don't want to pay much for it).
- Probably same weight or heavier (dumb).

There are 3 SN grand-piano types with 30 variations - how does this compare to the RD-700GXF or any of the other 'F' Rolands?

The FP-7F looks very interesting as it has the same keys and no stupid joystick (though no SN EPs nor TW organs). Anyone know if the SN AP offerings in it are the same / different as the NX? It has vocal stuff I don't care about, but the rhythm stuff seems interesting. It could be a great piano to recommend to students as it also has built-in speakers, a music rest, and 3 pedal option.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 10:51 PM

Questions:

1) I wonder if the RD-700NX keyboard action will be more or less noisy (or the same) than the RD700GX?

2) I wonder if any of the RD700NX acoustic pianos will be better or worse (or the same) as the RD700GX?

3) I wonder if FINALLY you'll be able to MIDI record with all of the parameters properly rendered. (This one could cause me to pull the plug - assuming that the APs are at the very least equal).

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.

Comment:

I could care less about the new improved screen. It's a stage piano, for pity sake.

The record to audio is a nice addition.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 10:51 PM

Anyone out there got an FP-7 who can comment on the internal speakers? Are they OK, good, bad, etc.?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 10:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
1) I wonder if the RD-700NX keyboard action will be more or less noisy (or the same) than the RD700GX?

I personally don't care about this too much, but others seem to. I would think it would be comparable to the GX as the third sensor is just a sensor - the mechanics should largely be the same.

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
2) I wonder if any of the RD700NX acoustic pianos will be better or worse (or the same) as the RD700GX?

The $10,000 question.

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
3) I wonder if FINALLY you'll be able to MIDI record with all of the parameters properly rendered. (This one could cause me to pull the plug - assuming that the APs are at the very least equal.

The other $10,000 question.

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
I could care less about the new improved screen. It's a stage piano, for pity sake.

I'll admit I'm a sucker for a sexy screen. I just don't want to pay too much for it. $100 tops.

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
The record to audio is a nice addition.

I agree, and quite critical for those who can't conveniently get their PC near their DP (after the layoff they took my laptop away - wah!).
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 10:59 PM

I'm glad they have included the Ivory Touch, but yes, I would have a slightly uneasy feeling if I were to buy one.

I've been considering getting a Casio PX-330 for portability, however now I'm wondering whether I should just replace my existing MP9000 (sniff!) with an FP-7F. (don't need a full blown stage piano). The FP is not as light as the Casio, but it's definitely portable, and of course it has Roland's flagship action and AP sounds. Very nice.

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
The FP is not as light as the Casio, but it's definitely portable, and of course it has Roland's flagship action and AP sounds. Very nice.

I agree, the FP-7F is very a enticing offering from many angles. My main concern is how the SN AP patches compare to those in the GXF/NX.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
I'm glad they have included the Ivory Touch, but yes, I would have a slightly uneasy feeling if I were to buy one.



I actually think that it feels good. However, some, not all units utilizing this technology still seem to have problems, in-spite of claims that the problem only applied to early units.

From my personal experience, I own (or have owned) four Roland instruments using the Ivory Touch technology. Three have stood up with no issues at all, but one (my RD-700GX) has been sent back with premature keyboard wear issues, after only three months - really only two months of playing (see my signature).

So, yes, I too have a VERY uneasy feeling about this.
Posted by: MarcoM

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
looks very interesting as it has the same keys and no stupid joystick


it doesn't have the same keys, the FP-7F has

- Newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement

while the 700NX has

- Deluxe PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement

it makes me think the FP has a 'lower grade' keyboard (GH vs GHS) given the fact that the 700NX says 'deluxe'
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 11:40 PM

Yes, first off, kudos to dewster for starting this thread over here. I'm going to give away the fact that I am KPro81 at the RolandClan Forums, so that we can really dig into this new RD700NX as objectively as possible wink

Like I was mentioning over at the RolandClan forums, I really believe that there should be no worries at all about the sound of the AP's from the FP-7F as to the NX. It's all the same and even more so, because the FP-7F now has the PHA3 action. Don't get confused with Roland's marketing hype to try and confuse us with which model has the top of the line action! Roland only has one PHA3 with Ivory feel action and it's the same as the V-Piano. wink Ultimately the FP-7F is kind of a "stripped" down version of the NX and I mean that VERY lightly. It simply doesn't have the SN EP's, but it has speakers and the nice 3 pedal unit, similar to the V-Piano. In a way it's a "stripped" down "upgrade".....what a paradox! grin
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/31/10 11:48 PM

Great thread guys, nice one. wink

The FP-7F is looking pretty impressive on paper - great update to what was already an excellent board.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: MarcoM
it doesn't have the same keys, the FP-7F has

- Newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement

while the 700NX has

- Deluxe PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement

it makes me think the FP has a 'lower grade' keyboard (GH vs GHS) given the fact that the 700NX says 'deluxe'

I stand corrected. The telltale '-S' does indeed seem ominous.

Have I expressed my profound hatred for market-speak (and/or modern management) lately?
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:23 AM

I knew it was too good to be true. I wonder how many sensors the FP-7F has, then? Btw, I had noticed the "-S" suffix, but I assumed that it was also used on the 700-NX - I just assumed this was the new flagship action! Arrgh.

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
I knew it was too good to be true. I wonder how many sensors the FP-7F has, then?

Interesting. I always thought the 'III' meant three sensors. I see they talk about a wood-look on the sides of the white keys on the RD-700NX - I wonder if that is the main difference between the "deluxe" keys and the -S keys?

Roland, if you're out there somewhere and you care about your customers, could you please de-obfuscate this issue?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Questions:

1) I wonder if the RD-700NX keyboard action will be more or less noisy (or the same) than the RD700GX?

Same

2) I wonder if any of the RD700NX acoustic pianos will be better or worse (or the same) as the RD700GX?

Same as GXF

3) I wonder if FINALLY you'll be able to MIDI record with all of the parameters properly rendered. (This one could cause me to pull the plug - assuming that the APs are at the very least equal).

Who knows ..... the GX can't even though roland will try to tell you otherwise

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.

Doubtful ....

Comment:

I could care less about the new improved screen. It's a stage piano, for pity sake.

And its unimpressive ....

The record to audio is a nice addition.

Should have been there years ago
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:36 AM

Yes, I always assumed the III meant three sensors too, and let's hope that it still does. smile

If the differences are cosmetic, then it's no big deal.

Greg.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 01:01 AM

Here are the current descriptions of the key actions, from http://www.rolandconnect.com:

FP-7F:
"New PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard
The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action. The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys."

RD-700NX:
"PHA III Keyboard
The RD-700NX’s PHA III Keyboard with Escapement offers maximum comfort, playability, and response. PHA III improves key repetition and perfectly conveys dynamic, velocity-based tonal changes. The escapement mechanism recreates the authentic “click feel” of a grand-piano keyboard, which particularly enhances expression when playing pianissimo. The keyboard also features Roland’s acclaimed Ivory Feel, a comfortable and realistic moisture-absorbent material that prevents slipping from perspiration during performance. The authentic coloration of grand-piano keys can also been seen on the sides of the white keys."

Obfuscation indeed!

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 01:53 AM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
The authentic coloration of grand-piano keys can also been seen on the sides of the white keys.

Is this all the -S really boils down to? No fake wood color on the sides of the white keys?

If so, who cares - If not, I do.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 02:06 AM

I'm frustrated at how different the general wording is in each description. If the only difference really IS the authentic coloration, then why word each so differently?

Greg.
Posted by: Suryaman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 02:15 AM

These new Roland digital pianos are fantastic.

For me the actions will be slightly different, being the RD700NX's the best. Only our fingers will tell of course.

I'm looking forward to try the 700NX, it has the exact features I wanted to be in the 700GX, and if the action is the same as the V-Piano (and it seems it is) oh my god this could turn into a serious GAS problem...

I'm sorry for Nord (Piano). Maybe it could have the best sounds in the market but the action is not even near to Roland's action.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 02:16 AM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
I'm frustrated at how different the general wording is in each description. If the only difference really IS the authentic coloration, then why word each so differently?

I'm thinking this is an example of mission accomplished! by the marketing department. Envision a banner on an aircraft carrier with W in the foreground.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 02:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Suryaman
I'm sorry for Nord (Piano). Maybe it could have the best sounds in the market...

Maybe if they upped their Flash capacity 10x - but otherwise, no. And the whole Fatar thing is just too risky for my blood, they need to find themselves a keyboard manufacturer with a better track record.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 03:27 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
the whole Fatar thing is just too risky for my blood, they need to find themselves a keyboard manufacturer with a better track record.


I think the problem for Nord (and other smaller players like Kurzweil) is, that manufacturer may not exist. Apart from Yamaha, Roland, Korg and Kawai, who else but Fatar is manufacturing actions for electronic keyboards in significant quantities?

And, presumably, the big four wish to keep their actions for their own instruments.
Posted by: octurn

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 04:13 AM

Hopefully the RD700NX will meet all raised expectations one can sense in the air reading this thread. I do remember the fuss about the new CP line from Yamaha, and the disappointment following as people discovered they were not as revolutionary as expected.

IMO this will probably be the same: some minor upgrades, but not the ultimate stage piano with the best sound technology and action available, which is also carryable and affordable.

Because that is what we are all waiting for...


ps. Also wondering what the kawai update will bring us ;-)
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 05:49 AM

RE: Kawai, I think I remember James saying that it would have the RM3 action, which, whilst undoubtedly very good, is not a triple-sensor action. IF this is true then that's a drawback, although I admit that the main reason I want a triple-sensor action is more for the warm & fuzzies than any real need. smile

Greg.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 06:02 AM

Greg, I don't believe I've ever mentioned any of specifications of the new MPs on this forum - at least not publicly. However, I don't think any would be too surprised to see the successor to the MP8II feature the latest wooden key action.

Quote:
...although I admit that the main reason I want a triple-sensor action is more for the warm & fuzzies than any real need.


Hmm...I expect that warm feeling is probably just the result of hammering the same key as many times as you can. wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 06:21 AM

Sorry about that, James! I've just been Googling to see whether I could find your post, but I can't. I guess I must have been assuming that it would be the RM3, and then I somehow made the leap from that to thinking you had actually stated it. smile I'm really sorry.

Greg.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 09:02 AM

On the Roland UK site it says availability is Nov. 2010. I don't know what it will be for this side of the pond, though.
Posted by: box

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 09:39 AM

As a recent buyer of a 700GXF, the only words that come to mind at the moment are: bloody heck.

Posted by: Scooby Hoo

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Suryaman
I'm sorry for Nord (Piano). Maybe it could have the best sounds in the market...

Maybe if they upped their Flash capacity 10x - but otherwise, no. And the whole Fatar thing is just too risky for my blood, they need to find themselves a keyboard manufacturer with a better track record.



Bingo.
Posted by: Scooby Hoo

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 11:21 AM


I found an unlinked page that had a price and delivery date. Not sure if it is correct:

2599 on 11/15. Thanks, Andy.
Posted by: box

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.


If you are referring to the key wear thing, it should also be noted that Roland has stated the cause was most likely alcohol coming into contact with the keys. No alcohol -- it says that in the manual.

Design oversight, communication issue, or maybe a product needing a certain amount of awareness by the user...but I'm not sure I would call it a quality control problem.

So far my keys are doing fine.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: box
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.


If you are referring to the key wear thing, it should also be noted that Roland has stated the cause was most likely alcohol coming into contact with the keys. No alcohol -- it says that in the manual.

Design oversight, communication issue, or maybe a product needing a certain amount of awareness by the user...but I'm not sure I would call it a quality control problem.

So far my keys are doing fine.



And now this key covering is going into the stage pianos.
I can't imagine that a stage piano or a stage pianist might come into contact with alcohol.
Posted by: Suryaman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 12:51 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Suryaman
I'm sorry for Nord (Piano). Maybe it could have the best sounds in the market...

Maybe if they upped their Flash capacity 10x - but otherwise, no. And the whole Fatar thing is just too risky for my blood, they need to find themselves a keyboard manufacturer with a better track record.


For me their 512mb are enough, you can load a lot of beautiful and detailed ac pianos and el pianos.

The real problem is the action. Altough Fatar makes good actions the one chosen by Nord is not at the same level of Yamaha and Roland competitors. Nord should put the action of the Numa Nero into his Nord Piano to be on par with Roland and Yamaha but I guess the weight would increase a lot...
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: box
As a recent buyer of a 700GXF, the only words that come to mind at the moment are: bloody heck.

I can only imagine the trauma recent FP-7 buyers must be experiencing.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 01:15 PM



Absolutely!!! The NX is not that big of a deal if you have the GX/F, but the FP-7F is lightyears ahead of the FP-7!
Posted by: blueston

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 01:44 PM

This is exciting. I can't wait to try one, or to buy a used GX at a lower price wink

For me, I think the GX is already very good so I would just want to see

1) Reduced weight. I did not see any published weight yet which is interesting. They need to bring it down at least 10 lbs.

2) Much better EP's. I can't believe all the touting and highlighting they did of the SN EP's which don't sound that impressive to me. Interesting marketing strategy - Why highlight it's worst feature? From what I recall I believe the CP50 has much better EP's.

3) Lastly of course the AP's sound and the action. If it's roughly the same then it would be pretty good. But these 2 features should be noticeably better for it to be considered something new and better. If it turns out to be hard to tell the difference between the GX and NX pianos then to me it will be a failure. What's the point.

Also, I am one of those really worried about the Ivory issue. I wanted a GX for a while now but have been holding off because I hate to spend such big bucks and have such a noticeable and potentially unbearable issue.
Posted by: kiedysktos.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 02:55 PM

In my opinion Roland shouldn't introduce 700GXF, it's not fair to the customers. 700GX with SN update is the same! And when they launched 700GXF, customers thought it will be top model for at least 2 years.
They weren't ready to launch this model at summer NAMM.

FP-7F is good move. Specially because they replaced loud action.

And for me the biggest step on this boards: 700NX, FP-7F and new Juno-Gi all have AUDIO RECORDING, which is big step ahead and should be standard in every board that has USB.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 05:45 PM

Hi guys... Great forum!

I had one of the first RD700GX's over here. Never had a problem with keys wearing off. In my experience this board is the ultimate in terms of ease of use. Absolutely loved the 4 sliders controlling 4 patches at the same time! But I had to let it go due to the fact that I never could get any descent sound on the different amps and pa systems I've used, plus all the EP factory settings pretty much sucked.
Don't get why they filled it with 20 different piano sounds where only 2 or 3 of them sounded good...
If this new NX version has a more 'userfriendly' output and overall better patches I want one smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
In my opinion Roland shouldn't introduce 700GXF, it's not fair to the customers. 700GX with SN update is the same! And when they launched 700GXF, customers thought it will be top model for at least 2 years.

I think it's pretty terrific that they hacked the GX software to the point where a lowly SRX card could give it SN APs - they really didn't have to do that at all, a tremendous gift to everyone who already owned a GX. Afterward they phased out the base model and so had to call the new one something. It makes a fair amount of sense to me from that angle, though I'm sure I'd have a few sour grapes if I just bought a GX/F.

GX is getting kind of old now, I didn't think it would go another two years without an update of some sort. Very glad to see PHAIII in the NX, I wonder if that's pressure from Casio putting triple sensor in everything?
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Very glad to see PHAIII in the NX, I wonder if that's pressure from Casio putting triple sensor in everything?


Yes, that is the obvious thought that I think many of us have. smile

Btw, when I tested forte repetition of the PHAIII, I still didn't think it was all that fantastic. Didn't test pianissimo. If it weren't for the fact that I simply don't have any problems doing forte repetition on a real piano (in the same playing/testing fashion), I would have started to doubt my own technique.

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Hi guys... Great forum!

Welcome thomsurf!

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I had one of the first RD700GX's over here. Never had a problem with keys wearing off. In my experience this board is the ultimate in terms of ease of use. Absolutely loved the 4 sliders controlling 4 patches at the same time!

I agree, in many ways the UI reminds me of the Kawai MP8.

I'm looking through the FP-7 manual and the UI seems fairly cryptic for certain functions. For example, velocity scaling is selected by holding down the "reverb" button and then pressing the "sound control" button. The GX in comparison has tons of options regarding velocity and they are in fairly straightforward seeming menus. I want the FP-7F internal speakers and form factor but I don't know if I can tolerate a lamer UI.

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
But I had to let it go due to the fact that I never could get any descent sound on the different amps and pa systems I've used, plus all the EP factory settings pretty much sucked.

A common complaint with the RD. Some have had some success by heavily tweaking the parameters, I assume you've gone this route?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
Btw, when I tested forte repetition of the PHAIII, I still didn't think it was all that fantastic.

Oh, I know I mention it too much, it's just one of my bugbears. If the third sensor is essentially free, I definitely want it. Like adequately large sample sets should be almost free at this point but for some reason aren't - I want those too.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:36 PM

Dewster,
Yes, I want triple sensors too.

Changing the subject - in one of the Roland videos (I think), they mention that the "sound focus" is related to "phase optimisation". Do you understand what this means? Phase adjustments, if they are performed dynamically, MUST involve a temporary pitch shift, yes?
(I have no idea what components of the sound undergo this "phase optimisation" though)

Greg.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 08:44 PM

(sorry - it's "phase-correction", and it's mentioned here in the text: http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx )

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/01/10 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
Changing the subject - in one of the Roland videos (I think), they mention that the "sound focus" is related to "phase optimisation". Do you understand what this means? Phase adjustments, if they are performed dynamically, MUST involve a temporary pitch shift, yes?
(I have no idea what components of the sound undergo this "phase optimisation" though)

From the video:
Players will also appreciate the new Sound Focus technology, allowing them to adjust the piano sound to cut through an ensemble performance without changing the essential tonal character or EQ of the piano.

From the text:
The innovative Sound Focus feature ensures that every note will be heard, even subtle pianissimo passages. Based on SuperNATURAL phase-correction technology, this essential feature ensures the RD-700NX won’t get lost in the mix, penetrating through walls of sound without compressing or coloring the tone. Players can relax and play naturally, achieving presence onstage without sacrificing dynamics and sound quality.

I have no freaking idea what they're talking about when they use the term "phase". They claim it isn't compression but it sounds like it to me in the video. It kind of smacks of the phase manipulation BS (IMO) promulgated by BBE to describe their special process of enhancing highs.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By: box
As a recent buyer of a 700GXF, the only words that come to mind at the moment are: bloody heck.


I don't see too much to grieve about here, to be honest. The action may be a slight upgrade but mostly I see this as probably cheaper overall for Roland to manufacture while charging more. You have a second MFX circuit and an expansion slot free. OK, the SRX boards are not spectacular but they are useful for substantially increasing the RD's sonic palette.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 03:50 AM

Blargh. I think I'm gonna return my GXF (though it sounds great) and wait a bit for the NX. I'm planning on keeping the keyboard for at least the next 2 years, so I figure I'd rather get the latest board (action & all), especially since the price difference will be negligible if this is anywhere near accurate: http://www.andysmusiconline.com/products/roland-rd700nx.html

I hate not having a piano at home, but maybe using acoustics on a regular basis for a month or 2 would be helpful to my technique..
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 04:27 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
It kind of smacks of the phase manipulation BS (IMO) promulgated by BBE to describe their special process of enhancing highs.


Thanks, and yes, some of the info on the BBE site does seem similar! The speaker correction that they talk about makes sense to me.

Side note: I once tore my hair out trying to figure out why some sounds sounded so different when played back from my soundcard. Turned out that my system was inverting the phase, and some low frequency tones sounded very different. Apparently some people are sensitive to absolute phase and others aren't. smile

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
Thanks, and yes, some of the info on the BBE site does seem similar! The speaker correction that they talk about makes sense to me.

It sort of makes sense, but I don't believe they are actually doing group delay. When BBE first hit the scene technical people tried to interpret their literature and came up empty. It really seemed like a snow job, with various terms being bandied about with only partial regard to their very specific meanings.

I own the BBE MAXIE Sonic Maximizer Model 402 (really old unit) - it seems to me their process is simply a level sensitive treble boost, which will of course boost highs without noticeably increasing hiss. The process knob just changes the compression threshold - the downside here is that hotter signals may produce more highs than you want, so I see it as more of a mastering tool, something to apply after the levels are well established. Not sexy enough in the light of day to sell like hotcakes, I suppose. People seem to have a need for a secret weapon in their audio arsenal with serious mystical gravitas, a slot BBE was only too happy to fill with a flimsy unit and boatload of empty jargon.

One final thing about the BBE: one of the channels in mine crapped out so I opened it up to see if I could fix it. Turns out they route the audio in there via a CD4000 series analog switch, which is kind of not the thing to do if you are super serious about fidelity. I pulled off the old part, installed a socket, and put in a new one (I believe it was one of the improved later families) and it started working like new. Currently my unit is performing spectacularly as a dust catcher, it only has consumer RCA I/O so it adds too much noise to any pro audio signal chain I've tried to put it in.
Posted by: McDonuts

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 12:33 PM

The NX blurb mentions "3 pianos with 30 variations." As I understand it, the GXF/SNKit has 4 fundamental sample sets that form the "base" pianos (but with fewer built-in variations):

Grand Piano 1 - the Expressive Grand sample set (RD700GX)
Grand Piano 2 - Superior (RD700SX)
Grand Piano 3 - Ultimate (Ultimate Pianos)
Grand Piano 4 - Grand RD (RD700?)

It will be interesting to find out a) if the NX is working from any brand-new sample sets and b) if not, which (if any) of the four above was dropped. The Grand RD, being the oldest, seems likely, but that would be unfortunate as it seems to be many users' favorite.
Posted by: blueston

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 01:12 PM

Very interesting info about the BBE Dewster. I had always wondered about their "special algorithm" and whether I should buy one. When they described it's like putting glasses on to see better, the Sonic Maximizer lets you hear everything much better, I always thought they were using something like dynamic narrow band filters around all the freq ranges that have the most content to remove nearby frequencies that had lower energy.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: blueston
... I always thought they were using something like dynamic narrow band filters around all the freq ranges that have the most content to remove nearby frequencies that had lower energy.

My unit is so old (in the technical sense) that I can't imagine them doing anything very sophisticated in there. IIRC they use a custom IC to keep prying reverse engineers from seeing what they really do at a glance.

And when a manufacturer mentions "phase alignment" as a way to perform some audible magic they are almost always intellectually out in the weeds.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: McDonuts
The NX blurb mentions "3 pianos with 30 variations."

The Roland site (http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1128) lists the SN APs in the NX as Concert, Studio, and Brilliant, with 30 variations.

This Roland pamphlet (http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/k-rd700gx1.pdf) lists the RD-700GX SRX SN AP expansion voices as the folowing:

SN01 Grand Piano
SN02 Clear Grand
SN03 MellowGrand
SN04 BrightGrand
SN05 Grand Piano2
SN06 UprightPiano
SN07 RagtimeGrand
SN08 Comp Piano
SN09 Grand Piano3
SN10 Grand Piano4
SN11 BrightGrand2
SN12 MellowGrand2
SN13 Honky-Tonk
SN14 Comp Piano2
SN15 Grand Mono
SN16 Mellow Mono
SN17 Bright Mono

Not sure how many fundamentally different sample sets there are in there.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 07:59 PM

For what it's worth, Sweetwater says the 700NX is shipping this month for $2599: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD700NX
I put in a return for my GXF, hopefully the NX doesn't take too long to ship laugh
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 08:08 PM

7even, how difficult was it to return the GXF? I mean, did you not have to provide a reason or anything?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 08:32 PM

I was up front about wanting to upgrade to the NX, but in general I think that Sweetwater (who I'm working with) has a no questions asked policy. It isn't much of a hassle overall (other than having to pack it up and ship it) smile
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 08:41 PM

Nice one - sounds like they've got a great policy.
What's the limit on this kind of thing over there, by the way?
Is it usually within 30 days of purchase?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Nice one - sounds like they've got a great policy.
What's the limit on this kind of thing over there, by the way?
Is it usually within 30 days of purchase?

Cheers,
James
x


Yup, the return window is 30 days. It helps that I received the board just the other day :P
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 08:49 PM

Congrats 7even! Please keep us posted on your impressions of how the two compare.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Congrats 7even! Please keep us posted on your impressions of how the two compare.


Gladly smile I'll also provide a DPBSD file once I get it.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/02/10 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: 7even
... I'll also provide a DPBSD file once I get it.

Sounds like a plan!
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 01:43 AM

Has there been any word on the RPU-3 pedal unit that is compatible for both RD series and new FP-7F? I'm curious as to when that might be shipping. I suppose I'll be holding on to my RD700GX/F even if, say a company like Kawai comes out with something soon and "influences" me to pick up something wink
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 04:21 PM

Hi Guys,

This is my first post. I'm on the look out for a good DP for my 13yr old daughter who's aready done few exams in keyboards and maxed them. She's moving to Pianos.

Am on the lookout for a DP with PHA3, GH3 type of action with good piano sound. Also Auto accompaniment was needed as she wants to continue enjoying the keyboard roots.

I was researching the FP-7 when I came across the FP-7F which was announced a couple of days back. Halleluah!!!

The PHA3-S vs PHA3 seems to be like the PHA2 alpha (stage version) vs PHA2 key action. What is the difference between the two. Please throw some light on this.

How are the speakers on the FP-7 (to have an idea of the ones on the FP-7F). Are they bass reflex. The FP-4 speaker sound is too thin.

Is the Session Partner feature similar to auto accompaniment / styles in a Yamaha?

Is the PHA3 better than GH3 of Yamaha?

Will move her to a Kawai K6 upright in the future if she continues to do well with Pianos.



Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 06:21 PM

Some thoughts for you:

PHA-III is better than Yamaha GH3 (although the Yamaha action is fine)

FP-7 always had significantly better speakers than FP-4...I think the speakers are ported on the FP-7

I am absolutely confident that the PHA-III S (FP-7F) is mechanically identical to the deluxe PHA-III as fitted to V-Piano, RD-700NX and others. The only difference is that the S does not have the two layer construction giving the appearance of a wooden under-structure to the white keys...I mean, who needs this? Ridiculous idea anyway.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace


I am absolutely confident that the PHA-III S (FP-7F) is mechanically identical to the deluxe PHA-III as fitted to V-Piano, RD-700NX and others.


I wouldn't be.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 09:29 PM

Melodialworks Music,

Quote:
I wouldn't be.


May I ask why not?

James
x
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 10:03 PM

I'm pretty confident that they are the same, but I'd sack their marketing department and let an engineer re-write their product info. ;^)

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 10:26 PM

I think the -S stands for "solid" as in solid white plastic and no fake wood on the sides. I'd be fairly surprised (alas, not the first time with DP manufacturers) if PHAIII wasn't PHAIII.

IMO, the only reason management exists is to mismanage reality. We were all better off when engineers were closer to how the products were represented in the marketplace. They don't fool around.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/03/10 10:54 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Hi Guys,



Is the Session Partner feature similar to auto accompaniment / styles in a Yamaha?





Yes and no ... Yamaha is significantly more advanced in its Style based accompaniment technology. But do you want AUTO accompaniment?
If she's 13 its time she thought about what her left hand's doing and making it control the keyboard rather then the other way around.
With a "Style" she actually is playing along to what the keyboard wants rather then the keyboard following what she wants to do.
I'd be looking at a good stage piano /workstation that has a good arpeggios function.
The Roland RD700 has this but also the Yamaha S90XS and CP5.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 12:50 AM

Thnx Dr Popper,

The ultimate goal for her would be a proper upright like the Kawai K6 or similar.

The RD700NX / CP5 look interesting and I was researching these as well. The only issue would be that its early days for an arranger/composer type of keyboard.

Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 01:43 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
I think the -S stands for "solid" as in solid white plastic and no fake wood on the sides. I'd be fairly surprised (alas, not the first time with DP manufacturers) if PHAIII wasn't PHAIII.

IMO, the only reason management exists is to mismanage reality. We were all better off when engineers were closer to how the products were represented in the marketplace. They don't fool around.


I went to three different stores yesterday and got three different stories invented on the spot:

1. -S stands for Speed, the keyboard will be faster
2. -S stands for Silent, the keyboard will be quieter
3. -S stands for eScapement, the keyboard will have a more realistic escapement simulation that will later be put into the other keyboards (!)

All three stores were unaware that the key would be -Solid white, however, until I informed them.
Posted by: Suryaman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 02:44 AM

Guys it's praiseworthy how much efforts are you putting to try to imagine and explain the differences between the two versions of the PHAIII. This is the reason why I really like this forum.

As for me, besides marketing definitions, it's quite obvious that Roland will not put his flagship action in a dital piano, the FP-7F, which will cost about half the price of the NX.

I think that the distance between the two actions will remain nearly the same as FP7/RD700GX(I like considerably more the action of the GX over the FP7).

Obviously I'll be more than happy to be wrong at the test drive on november, hoping that my local GC will have have them together.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 03:35 AM

Not sure about the pricing you mention. Here the RD700NX is listed at 2399 and the FP7F at 1899. The power of the FP7 is less but it has its own speakers. Each has unique features that the other does not, aiming them at different markets.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 04:12 AM

1. EssBrace mentions PHAIII being superior to GH3. Any comments on this? Also where do they stand against the Kawai RM3? It would give me a fair idea as I'd checked out the Kawai CA63 recently. Its action was about 80% of the K5 and K6 acoustic uprights.

2. FP-7 has regular PHAII whereas FP-4 has PHAII Alpha. What is the diff between these two actions. It could hold the answer to the PHAIII vs PHAIII-S action.

3. Probably the RD-700NX costs more than the FP-7F as its an arranger workstation for Pros with more features. Would these features be required for a beginer?

4. Is the SuperNatural sound engine superior to 4 or 5 layer Pure CFIIIS Dynamic Stereo Sampling of Yamaha?

My decision is going to lean towards the BEST Piano action as this would be the most crucial aspect of learning on an acoustic. Second would be the Sound as this would translate into a better understanding of each note and its expressivity. Last would be the AUTO-accompaniment feature for the fun part. The onboard speakers on the FP-7F would be an added bonus.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
3. Probably the RD-700NX costs more than the FP-7F as its an arranger workstation for Pros with more features. Would these features be required for a beginer?

I don't know if I'd call the NX and "arranger workstation". It's more of a full featured, flagship stage piano. I has SuperNATURAL EPs for instance, and only acquired rudimentary recording ability in this incarnation. If you watch the FP video it seems to have some kind of accompaniment going (rhythm patterns & a looper, says the FP info).

Originally Posted By: bsl100
4. Is the SuperNatural sound engine superior to 4 or 5 layer Pure CFIIIS Dynamic Stereo Sampling of Yamaha?

Technically, absolutely. There is no looping or stretching going on in SN. I don't think I would be able to tell it's not a real piano, even in a solo recording scenario.

Originally Posted By: bsl100
My decision is going to lean towards the BEST Piano action as this would be the most crucial aspect of learning on an acoustic. Second would be the Sound as this would translate into a better understanding of each note and its expressivity. Last would be the AUTO-accompaniment feature for the fun part. The onboard speakers on the FP-7F would be an added bonus.

I believe the NX and FP are the same for your first two criteria. The FP may actually be better for the third. And those speakers in the FP make it quite attractive as an all-rounder. The user interface on the NX is superior to the FP though. And they weigh about the same though the NX is longer and may not fit across the back seat of a car. I wish all of my wife's students had something as nice as either to practice on.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 08:37 AM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
I went to three different stores yesterday and got three different stories invented on the spot:

1. -S stands for Speed, the keyboard will be faster
2. -S stands for Silent, the keyboard will be quieter
3. -S stands for eScapement, the keyboard will have a more realistic escapement simulation that will later be put into the other keyboards (!)

That's hilarious!

Apparently -S stands for Sucker if you ask any kind of questions at all. This is why I do my own research and would rather the sales people just left me alone. Even the Sweetwater rep that rings up too often in order to badger the life out of me is often clueless when it comes to equipment that has just been announced.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 08:49 AM

My dream Roland stage piano would be the NX with (in order of decreasing importance):

1. The joystick removed or relocated to the upper deck.
2. Some kind of music rest.
3a. The built-in speakers of the FP.
3b. Lighter weight.

Heck, if they had just done the first one I'd have one preordered yesterday. As it is I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. It mainly comes down to the much nicer UI of the NX (I really like the rotary encoder wheel) vs the shorter length, built-in speakers, and music rest of the FP.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 08:51 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster


Apparently -S stands for Sucker if you ask any kind of questions at all.


It's actually quite obvious that the -S stands for silly.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 09:00 AM

dewster, this will be for your wife's teaching, correct?

If so, the FP-7F is perhaps the more suitable choice (music rest, speakers, greater portability, etc.)

James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 09:04 AM

Yes, but it would be nice to be able to take it on vacation as well. For the studio the NX makes the most sense, as we already have a sound system and stand with music rest there. For portability the FP makes the most sense.
Posted by: Jackie Apple

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 10:37 AM

First post, so please be kind! Replying to last post for speed. Apologies if this has been posted before.

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/fp-7f_brochure.pdf

On the top of the front page, features are listed on an orange bar. Those features include:

PHA III

Ivory Feel S

Escapement

… which would seem to suggest that the S relates to the ‘feel’ (in terms of surface material) rather than the action.

That brochure also contains the following description that has already been quoted on this thread:

“New PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard
The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action. The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all-white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.”

Side note: I placed an order for a Yamaha CP300 a month or so ago but the retailer is waiting for stock and now I’m wondering whether these new Rolands will turn out to be more interesting. I am particularly interested in the action.

edit: RD-700NX brochure link here: http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-700NX_brochure.pdf
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 12:58 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Thnx Dr Popper,

The ultimate goal for her would be a proper upright like the Kawai K6 or similar.

The RD700NX / CP5 look interesting and I was researching these as well. The only issue would be that its early days for an arranger/composer type of keyboard.



They aren't arranger/composer keyboards (that's the "Style" type I was referring too) but rather proper stage pianos that have bass/drum accompaniment and can easily do layers, splits etc which most modern pianists need to do.
They can do pretty much everything a Kawai K6 can do plus a lot more that it can't.
My daughter has my old RD700GX as her main learning piano and she's doing quite well on it as it allows her to play around with sounds and types of music in a way that she can't when she plays my C7. Getting her to practice on the C7 was a chore, but she loves playing the RD.
Posted by: Suryaman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 01:10 PM

Jackie Apple I strongly suggest you to wait for FP-7F and RD700NX before buying anything.

The RD700NX is gonna be the best stage piano for $2300-2500 on the market.

Anyway the CP300 is a great digital piano too.
Posted by: MarcoM

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Jackie Apple
The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency


I wonder if this means that the -S keys are not coated but have the 'ivory touch' as a function of the material itself? Still I can't understand if that was the case why they would have two different pha-iii... don't we all love marketing!
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 05:36 PM

Here's another ambiguity:

Quote from http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=fp-7f :

"an all-new PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement".

If the only difference is the one-piece construction of the keys, then it's absurd to say that it's "all new".

Sigh. I still feel very optimistic that it's a tri-sensor action, however I hope Roland make me feel even better soon, by providing clear information. And I can't be too hard on their marketing people because they've been kind enough to allow a PHAIII(-ish) action to be provided in the FP-7F (and the PHAIII in the 700NX) in the first place. ;^)

I suppose that it's possible that the FP-7F does not SENSE the action as precisely as the RD-700NX or V-Piano.......

Greg.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 07:59 PM

WAY Off Topic:

Here's a fun little break from digital pianos, however it's an EXCELLENT example of the frustration of marketing departments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGejPAqNVw
(Top Gear's review of the Porsche Cayman S)

Go to time 4:50.

Greg.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/04/10 11:35 PM

Dr Popper, Dewster,

I stand corrected about the C5/RD-700 being Stage Pianos and not arranger/workstations.

If you are to do only Bass/Drums, the FP-7 manual (page 69) suggests that the Session Partner button can be worked in a way where you can do any of the following: Only Drums / Bass+Drums / Full Auto-accompaniment.

Would this be something similar to what the RD-700 series does. Of course, the RD-700 would also do built in Arpegios but would not have full blown Auto-accompaniment.

Brian

Posted by: R0B

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 12:11 AM

Ivory Feel-S = Simulated??
(to avoid complaints from C.I.T.E.S. ?)
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 12:17 AM

1. There's no mention of a third sensor in PHAIII, except that it can deliver better Repetition & Expressivity than the PHAII. Those who have tried out both the actions could tell us the difference.

2. Both the earlier RD-700's and FP-7's had PHAII keys. But they gave the new RD-700NX PHAIII and the FP-7F PHAIII-S.

3. The difference between the two actions could be the same (difference) as in PHAII and PHAII alpha.

Brian
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 12:27 AM

I am sure that PHAIII has three sensors, because I've tested it. It is capable of sounding a new note for a partial key release, without having to release the key to the extent that the original note is terminated first.

I have not tested to make sure PHAII only has 2 sensors.

The third sensor is there to simulate the repetition lever in a real grand piano action, which allows repetitions for smaller key returns, and without the damper coming into contact with the strings.

Greg.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 01:33 AM

Here's the PHAIII in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLsNgJELxpU

Go to time 2:10.

For PHAII, I am quite sure the key would have to be released approximately 2/3rds the way up before a new note can be played.
(I have measured the note termination point, but did not bother to check partial release behaviour because I am confident that PHAII has no sensor to allow a partial release repetition)

Yamaha's GH3 and Casio's new action both pass this test too.

We do have to be a bit careful to seperate functionality from implementation though. The Infinite Response VAX-77 MIDI controller also has three-sensor functionality, but it doesn't have three sensors - it has a hall effect sensor which allows it to sample the key position many times per second as it moves which is of course better than having sensors placed at three different positions. So, I don't know whether Roland have ever actually stated that PHAIII has three sensors - it just seems to be common knowledge. Anyone got a link?

Greg.
Posted by: jscomposer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 02:24 AM

I'd wager the "S" in PHA-III Ivory Feel-S means standard. As opposed to deluxe in the RD-700NX. wink
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Jackie Apple
The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all-white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.

This is why I think the -S stands for "solid" (or "standard" as jscomposer suggests) (emphasis mine). I think they are trying to differentiate it from the imitation wood sided white keys of the NX which they market as a deluxe feature (which jscomposer also suggests).

Does anyone know if this fake wood side thing is new to the NX?

Also from the brochure (thanks!):

Quote:
With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action.

This is why I'm sure it's a three sensor (emphasis mine).
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 03:23 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Jackie Apple
The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all-white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.

This is why I think the -S stands for "solid" (or "standard" as jscomposer suggests) (emphasis mine). I think they are trying to differentiate it from the imitation wood sided white keys of the NX which they market as a deluxe feature (which jscomposer also suggests).

Does anyone know if this fake wood side thing is new to the NX?

Also from the brochure (thanks!):

Quote:
With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action.

This is why I'm sure it's a three sensor (emphasis mine).


The V-Piano has the fake wood on the sides of the keys:

Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 03:25 AM

Thanks for that 7even! Nice pic...
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Dr Popper, Dewster,

I stand corrected about the C5/RD-700 being Stage Pianos and not arranger/workstations.

If you are to do only Bass/Drums, the FP-7 manual (page 69) suggests that the Session Partner button can be worked in a way where you can do any of the following: Only Drums / Bass+Drums / Full Auto-accompaniment.

Would this be something similar to what the RD-700 series does. Of course, the RD-700 would also do built in Arpegios but would not have full blown Auto-accompaniment.

Brian



It sounds like would be similar but a RD700NX is a far better board for only a few hundred more.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 12:07 PM

How would you rate the following KEY ACTION (1 -10, with 10 being best of an Acoustic):
GH3, Yamaha
PHAIII, Roland
Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action, Casio
RH3, Korg
RM3, Kawai

How would you rate the following Piano SOUNDS (1 -10, with 10 being best of an Acoustic):
Pure CFIIIS, Yamaha
SuperNatural, Roland
AIF Linear Morphing, Casio
EDS, Korg
Ultra PHI, Kawai

Brian
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
How would you rate the following Piano SOUNDS (1 -10, with 10 being best of an Acoustic):

7 Pure CFIIIS, Yamaha
9 SuperNatural, Roland
5 AIF Linear Morphing, Casio
4 EDS, Korg
? Ultra PHI, Kawai
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 05:45 PM

dewster, these links may help to refresh your memory:

Link 1
Link 2

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, these links may help to refresh your memory:

Thanks James!

In light of that (and I should have qualified this list as largely off the top of my head):

7 Pure CFIIIS, Yamaha
9 SuperNatural, Roland
5 AIF Linear Morphing, Casio
4 EDS, Korg
7 Ultra PHI, Kawai
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 07:14 PM

dewster, 88-key sampling isn't important to you then?

James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, 88-key sampling isn't important to you then?

You mean 84 key sampling like in the CA63? wink

Yes stretching, particularly if it is audible, is very important to me. But there are other things like note decay time, looping, etc. that can be just as important if not moreso. Like I said, the numbers are the result of a quick impression, not a deep data dive.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 08:16 PM

dewster, 88-key sampling is 88-key sampling - regardless of what your test may suggest.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, 88-key sampling is 88-key sampling - regardless of what your test may suggest.


James - Have you got your flack jacket on? Dewy gets sensitive about his test results/conclusions!
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 08:22 PM

So how do we determine if the NX will sound better than the GX?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 09:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, 88-key sampling is 88-key sampling - regardless of what your test may suggest.


James - Have you got your flack jacket on? Dewy gets sensitive about his test results/conclusions!


Whatever claims are made on either side, if I can't tell the difference with my ears, I don't really care. AUDIBLE stretching/looping/layering is where the problem lies.

What I will say is that now the manufacturers are aware of Dewster's tests, they are likely to be a little more careful with what they put in print in future.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
So how do we determine if the NX will sound better than the GX?


By waiting until it's released and then trying it! Life was so much easier when a Steinway was a Steinway, and always would be.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, 88-key sampling is 88-key sampling - regardless of what your test may suggest.

So I take it that you checked with the engineers on this issue? If indeed there is stretching in the CA63, the claim that there isn't any would bother me a bit, but practically it is fairly moot as it is minor and inaudible. I do take some issue with the noticeable looping and somewhat short note decay.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/05/10 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Whatever claims are made on either side, if I can't tell the difference with my ears, I don't really care. AUDIBLE stretching/looping/layering is where the problem lies.

With the caveat that ears can, over time, be trained - intentionally or not - to hear things that they previously couldn't. And there's the rub for DP sound technology. We can't really know now what our ears will become wise to. I just wish they'd try harder at keeping mine satisfied long-term.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 03:20 AM

With regard to the CA63, I'd mentioned about the key action viz a viz the K6 side by side.

As far as the sound goes, the K6 was clearly superior and very pleasing with the sound resonating beautifully.

Dewster mentions about note decay in the CA63. The notes to the right of middle C decayed faster in about 8-9 seconds whereas the ones to the left held longer for about 12 seconds.
Posted by: unpia

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 08:11 AM

About the difference between PHA III and PHA III-S:
Quote:
[PHA III] The keyboard also features Roland’s acclaimed Ivory Feel, a comfortable and realistic moisture-absorbent material that prevents slipping from perspiration during performance."
Quote:
[PHA III-S] The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys.


Could it be that in the PHA III-S, only white keys have the ivory feel, while black keys have the standard plastic feel?

Also, one wonders why they would bother calling the two keybeds differently if the only thing that changed was the color of the sides of the keys. Who even cares about that?
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 08:24 AM

There's no reason to call the two actions by different names if only coloration is a factor. It would mean confusing your customer.

The RD-700NX (series) has better electronics and features to warrant a better price compared to the FP-7F (series).

I once again request someone who has tried out both PHAII and PHAII alpha to tell what difference is there between those two.

Brian
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 08:59 AM

Good point unpia.

Also, the V-Piano PHAIII text explicitly mentions ebony feel for the black keys. smile
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=978&ParentId=87

Greg.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: bsl100


I once again request someone who has tried out both PHAII and PHAII alpha to tell what difference is there between those two.


Is the FP7 PHA II or PHA II alpha?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 09:56 AM

The FP7 uses PHAII.
The FP4 uses PHAII alpha.

James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 10:01 AM

FP7 has PHA II. I believe the alpha actions were reserved for the narrower, lighter weight boards. In the RD-300SX (which I have) it was called Compact Progressive Hammer Action, which was then changed to PHA II alpha in the RD-300GX. From that history, I doubt whether the FP7f action will differ much from the NX.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 10:02 AM

Sorry, James, I was still typing (sleepily) when you posted.
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, 88-key sampling is 88-key sampling - regardless of what your test may suggest.

So I take it that you checked with the engineers on this issue? If indeed there is stretching in the CA63, the claim that there isn't any would bother me a bit, but practically it is fairly moot as it is minor and inaudible. I do take some issue with the noticeable looping and somewhat short note decay.

Also to refresh your memory: your judging is incomplete (couldn't find an even friendlier word), because it is based on a basic CA63 factory setting, without dynamic voicing or string resonance. As you know, advanced custom piano presets for the CA93/CA63 include dynamic dual voice piano layering where there is no audible looping. Please be my guest and demonstrate that direct competitors like the Yamaha CLP and Roland HP series also support dynamic layering of acoustic piano voices. whistle yawn
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 11:27 AM

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Also to refresh your memory: your judging is based on a basic CA63 factory setting, even without string resonance.

Have they fixed the no string resonance with MIDI playback issue that plagued all of the Kawai DPs I've tested (Roland HP-307 has similar issues)? That's the reason my testing was done that way. And the factory default main piano voice is what I routinely test as DP manufacturers generally put their best foot forward there.

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
As you know, advanced custom piano presets for the CA93/CA63 include dynamic dual voice piano layering where no looping is audible at all. Please be my guest and demonstrate that Yamaha CLP and Roland HP series also support this dynamic layering of acoustic piano voices. yawn

1. I could layer two separate piano voices on our old P120 (not comparable?).
2. Roland SN doesn't really need this to sound good.

The idea of masking looping with more looping layered on top makes me kind of tired. I'm sure it helps the inherent lameness of looping, but to me it is firmly in the 2 * wrong != right category.

And before anyone thinks I'm singling out Kawai for ridicule here, I'm really not. James brought up the subject of minor stretching in the CA63/CN33 and again failed to clarify it with feedback from his own company. Since I can't read minds over at the Kawai engineering department I'm at a loss as to how to even discuss the issue.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 11:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The FP7 uses PHAII.
The FP4 uses PHAII alpha.


Well that proves my (previously stated) concern about assuming that all PHA III keyboard actions will be the same. This is not a valid assumption. Why do I say this? I say this because my experience is that not all PHA II actions are equal.

I play PHA II (FP7) and PHA II (HP-207 and RD-700GX). The FP7 is inferior, bottoms out much harder, is more fatiguing etc. They are not the same action, even if they have the same name designation. I enjoy the action far more on the RD and HP than the FP.

Some here are assuming that the NX PHA III action will be identical to that of V-Piano. Well, maybe -but I don't think you can make any assumptions about action.

The proof will be in the spanking - of the keys.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 11:39 AM

.
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Have they fixed the no string resonance with MIDI playback issue that plagued all of the Kawai DPs I've tested (Roland HP-307 has similar issues)? That's the reason my testing was done that way. And the factory default main piano voice is what I routinely test as DP manufacturers generally put their best foot forward there.

I couldn't care less, as MIDI playback does not influence the live piano playing experience (including string resonance) at all and it has been demonstrated many times already that the Kawai CA93/CA63 can quite uniquely be tweaked to the next level, way beyond its basic factory settings. whistle Although the sound signature itself is arguably excellent (personal taste), Kawai should have spent more efforts developing their factory presets to the max i.m.h.o.


Originally Posted By: dewster

1. I could layer two separate piano voices on our old P120 (not comparable?).

Ancient static layering without dynamic voicing is no good for making acoustic piano voices sound alive and therefore is not comparable at all (+sonic artifacts alert).


Originally Posted By: dewster

2. Roland SN doesn't really need this to sound good.

Let's reformulate: Roland SN is unable to perform dynamic layering with timbre matching and therefore its tweakability is unexpectedly limited compared to the Kawai CA93/CA63.


Originally Posted By: dewster

The idea of masking looping with more looping layered on top makes me kind of tired. I'm sure it helps the inherent lameness of looping, but to me it is firmly in the 2 * wrong != right category.

(Not really) sorry to disappoint you that I found a way for the Kawai CA93/CA63 to make any small remaining noticability of looping in the decay phase disappear and make its versatile piano timbres sound extremely dynamic. cool
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
I couldn't care less, as MIDI playback does not influence the live piano playing experience (including string resonance) at all ...

For some of us MIDI playback is quite critical. So I take it that this hasn't been fixed in the various Kawai DPs?

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Let's reformulate: Roland SN is unable to perform dynamic layering with timbre matching and therefore its tweakability is unexpectedly limited compared to the Kawai CA93/CA63.

I really don't think the fairly complete Roland SN piano designer is "unexpectedly limited".
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 03:00 PM

Roland SN vs Kawai Ultra PHI (88 note sampling) vs Yamaha pure CFIIIS.

Techinical superiority?
Most Pleasing sound? (Debatable issue)
Long sustainance of notes?
The resonance and reverberations of the notes?


Brian
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 03:29 PM

Hi Brian, here's a reference to some extensive discussions:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1407600/1.html
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 04:01 PM

To come back to the PHAIII / PHAIII-S topic; I think it's typical of these times for manufacturers to be fuzzy in the communication of technical specifications. No matter if it's about TV's , cars, digital instruments or even software - they're excellent in creating their own unique- , non-existing terminology for many features of the products which makes it hard to compare specs with the competition, simultaneously creates a reality distortion field for the customers and furthermore they are champions in leaving out a lot of (critical) information.

IMHO if something is not mentioned in the specs and/or only described in vague terminology or in ways that are not sufficiently explained (PHAIII vs PHAIII-S anyone ?) than you have to be suspicious. As always assumption is...

For the rest I agree with an earlier post that even if the specs are the same (e.g. PHA-II on LX10, DP-PE or HP-PE series and on RD700GX) , than I'm sure they still cheat, because they really do NOT feel exactly the same. Perhaps they have different batches for different products that have to meet higher or lower standards in quality control, or they have a slightly different design or use of materials. Since the specs don't have to be evaluated by any authority , they can label it anything they want whenever they like. I'm sure keybeds sharing the same name will have a similar basic design, but their exact implementation may still vary between different instruments and price ranges.

Try before you buy was never more true...
Posted by: unpia

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
I play PHA II (FP7) and PHA II (HP-207 and RD-700GX). The FP7 is inferior, bottoms out much harder, is more fatiguing etc. They are not the same action, even if they have the same name designation. I enjoy the action far more on the RD and HP than the FP.

If you read the specs carefully, you'll realize they don't have the same action: FP7 is "PHA II", while HP-207 and RD-700GX are "PHA II Ivory Feel with Escapement" (there is also a "PHA II with Escapement" iirc).

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Some here are assuming that the NX PHA III action will be identical to that of V-Piano. Well, maybe -but I don't think you can make any assumptions about action.

In the new generation even the FP-7F has escapement, so really the only question is "PHA III Ivory Feel with Escapement" versus "PHA III Ivory Feel-S with Escapement". And in their description, Roland is strongly implying that the difference is only in the key surface; I think it's safe to assume the actions are the same.

Originally Posted By: JFP
To come back to the PHAIII / PHAIII-S topic; I think it's typical of these times for manufacturers to be fuzzy in the communication of technical specifications. No matter if it's about TV's , cars, digital instruments or even software - they're excellent in creating their own unique- , non-existing terminology for many features of the products which makes it hard to compare specs with the competition, simultaneously creates a reality distortion field for the customers and furthermore they are champions in leaving out a lot of (critical) information.

Amen to that!

Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm sure keybeds sharing the same name will have a similar basic design, but their exact implementation may still vary between different instruments and price ranges.

I'm not sure about that: the manufacturers also want to keep the number of spare parts down, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to covertly use a dozen different implementations.
Posted by: kiedysktos.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 06:08 PM

From brochure:

"Unfortunately the subtleties of piano can easily get lost in loud band mixes, but with Sound Focus you can inject stunning presence into the instrument, even in band settings, without sacrifi cing dynamics and sound quality."

If they're talking about presence, maybe it's also about EQ'ing sound to make it fit better in the mix? But honestly I'm almost sure that this is kind of low level compressor, but it doesn't compress output sound, only signals you send from the keyboard to the sound module, if they are too quiet; so you have louder quiet notes, but it doesn't compress loud notes.


Other thing: new 700NX doesn't have an arpeggiator, but I doubt anyone noticed it. Mainly because pros doesn't use it, but also they change the way specs look on purpose, so you have dig in a little to notice very small difference between GXF and NX.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 08:20 PM

yes there are little discrepancies between the GX/F and the NX. I also noticed this

NX:
Multi-Effects: 2 x 4 systems, 84 types
Reverb: 6 types
Chorus: 3 types
3-band Compressor
4-band Digital Equalizer

GX/F:
Multi-Effects: 2 x 4 systems, 124 types,
Reverb: 6 types,
Chorus: 3 types,
Sound Control: 3-band Compressor
4-band Digital Equalizer

Nearly identical exact for the fact that the GX/F has 40 more effect types! It seems to me that Roland has decided to rehash "older" products and streamline them. Hence the exclusion of any expansion capability, streamlined effects, and the same 242 rompler-age sounds included. The RD series has just experienced this "deja vu" type marketing and remember the VR-760? The VR-700 (V-Combo) is supposed to be the "newer" board, but it actually has less features! I believe that if you have a GX/F stick with it and if you don't.... get an NX, because Roland has clearly stated that this is it for awhile. So in a way that's cool because I particularly like the SN pianos and the SN EPs (with my extensive tweaking) has grown on me somewhat. I have been throwing around the idea of considering an NX, but I just have a problem with using an improved action and larger screen to justify tossing my GX/F and getting an NX. eek

Overall what they excluded from the NX, they replaced it with a better action and "that not mentioned at all in the product description", audio recorder frown I definitely would call it a solid buy (not for me, of course wink ) and a very heavy contender in the stage piano department. cool
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
I believe that if you have a GX/F stick with it and if you don't.... get an NX, because Roland has clearly stated that this is it for awhile.


Where has Roland "clearly stated" this? Thanks.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/06/10 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
I believe that if you have a GX/F stick with it and if you don't.... get an NX, because Roland has clearly stated that this is it for awhile.


Where has Roland "clearly stated" this? Thanks.


Obviously Roland didn't state that, but I'll just clarify what I mean. When Roland introduced the SuperNatural technology in 2008 they were slowly releasing it to the public in various products with the "original" RD700GX being one of them. It seems they were testing the market to see how the SN tech would be taken by the public. Then when Yamaha updated their CP lines with a "special" technique for creating AP's and EP's, Roland figured that if they wanted to stay in the race they better "upgrade" the GX withe SN expansion board or RD700GXF to show they too have a "special" technique for AP's......because they already displayed it for the EP's with the built in ARX-02 board. When Roland introduced the GX in 2008 they could have done this already, but there was no real pressure from other manufacturers because they were still using the same old sample and velocity level technique. So there it was the, the RD700GXF with SN AP's and SN EP's, however it was already 2 years since their last MAJOR stage piano upgrade (RD700SX to the RD700GX). Therefore, they released the NX with a couple of physical upgrade and EXCLUSIONS (not in sound technology, though) and now we have the current Roland stage piano for probably another 2 years.

Thats what I mean by "clearly stated". The NX is using the same shell and same technology because it is ultimately an original GX plus the SN AP board built in. I'm just getting down to the nitty gritty. Roland is saying that for their flagship digital stage pianos, this is it for awhile. cool
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/10 02:48 PM

I understand your interpretation of Roland's activities but I'm not sure I agree. Your assumption that they have sat on SN for acoustic piano sounds until a competitor found another technology is just that; an assumption. I personally disagree. Information has been posted on here about the evolution of the SN technology, which has been in the pipeline essentially since 1986.

I am also of the opinion that the Yamaha SCM system is much more about marketing jargon than new technology...the results achievable with SCM - so far seen in the new CP series - are no better than with a decent conventional sample playback hardware DP. SN on the other hand moves the game along very considerably.

I don't see any reason to suppose that the RD700 NX will be "it" for a while for Roland; the physical form is ageing and the RD700 tag will soon be ripe for replacement.

Just my opinion.

Steve
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/10 05:09 PM

The Roland briefing to dealers in the Benelux indicated that both the NX and FP7F will be around in their current incarnation for at least two years.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/10 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
The Roland briefing to dealers in the Benelux indicated that both the NX and FP7F will be around in their current incarnation for at least two years.

That sounds reasonable to me. They worked on both sufficiently to hold them a couple of years.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/10 07:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
NX:
Multi-Effects: 2 x 4 systems, 84 types
...
GX/F:
Multi-Effects: 2 x 4 systems, 124 types,

I wonder if they got rid of the other non-SN AP voices? If so, perhaps they were then able to move the AP-centric in-line effects over to the SN piano designer?

100% wishful thinking.
Posted by: dje31

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/10 09:01 PM

Is anyone else more interested in a V-Piano light than the NX? In form factor, weight, and price? I think I am...or perhaps some more economical hybrid of the GXF and the V-Piano.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 12:21 AM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
The Roland briefing to dealers in the Benelux indicated that both the NX and FP7F will be around in their current incarnation for at least two years.


That's exactly what I was thinking. Thank's for backing me up on my hunch! cool
Posted by: ChrisA

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 01:07 AM

Quote:
When Roland introduced the SuperNatural technology in 2008 they were slowly releasing it to the public in various products with the "original" RD700GX being one of them. It seems they were testing the market to see how the SN tech would be taken by the public.


No, I don't think it worked that way. SN technology has been around for more than 10 years. Roland first applied it to drums and then I think brass instruments and then later to electric pianos and most recently to acoustic pianos. So this has been in the works for a long time. I think they applied it where the payoff would be best first.

A lot of this is also driven by the price of small computers. This is why everyone has about the same advances at about the same time. Most companies could make MUCH better digital pianos or much better software pianos if faster computers were available at the consumer price point.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 01:19 AM

Apart from the Keyboard and screen the NX actually offers LESS then the RD700GXF (it sound the same to my ears ... the keyboard and screen is nicer though).

No Arpeggios
Less SN voices
Less effects

Roland must think less = more ?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 02:13 AM

Quote:
Roland must think less = more ?


They're not the only ones. wink

James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 06:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
No Arpeggios
Less SN voices
Less effects

Are there really fewer SN basic voices, or just fewer patches?

Why in the world would they yank out the arpeggiator?

I'm curious Dr Popper, have you had the opportunity to play an NX yet? I know you get to see a lot of equipment around their press release dates.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: ChrisA
Quote:
When Roland introduced the SuperNatural technology in 2008 they were slowly releasing it to the public in various products with the "original" RD700GX being one of them. It seems they were testing the market to see how the SN tech would be taken by the public.


No, I don't think it worked that way. SN technology has been around for more than 10 years. Roland first applied it to drums and then I think brass instruments and then later to electric pianos and most recently to acoustic pianos. So this has been in the works for a long time. I think they applied it where the payoff would be best first.

A lot of this is also driven by the price of small computers. This is why everyone has about the same advances at about the same time. Most companies could make MUCH better digital pianos or much better software pianos if faster computers were available at the consumer price point.


Actually SuperNatural technology is a derivative of Roland's SA synthesis and that was developed over 20 years ago. I'm talking about when they started to release SuperNatural technolgy to the masses and that was in 2008. They created a drum board and electric piano board (ARX-01, ARX-02 respectively). Eventually they created the ARX-03 Brass board and that board was integrated with Roland's VP770 Vocal and Ensemble keyboard, in the same manner that the RD700GX had the ARX-02 integrated. However, the RD700GX was one of the FIRST mass produced instruments from Roland that showcased the SuperNatural technology in its completed form. Yes the Fantom G also had SuperNatural capabilities but not as part of the instrument itself. It was through expansion that you could access SuperNatural technology. Even though the RD700GX ultimately had an ARX-02 on board it was integrated as part of the board itself and not as a user expansion option.
Posted by: dje31

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 04:30 PM

Pardon my newb-ness, but is the SRX SuperNatural piano expansion card compatible on an RD-700SX? Does my antique board have the horsepower to drive it? Is it even backward compatible? Anyone experienced this firsthand?
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 06:32 PM

Sorry dje31 the RD700GX-1 SuperNatural Piano board is only compatible with the GX.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 10:57 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
No Arpeggios
Less SN voices
Less effects

Are there really fewer SN basic voices, or just fewer patches?

Why in the world would they yank out the arpeggiator?

I'm curious Dr Popper, have you had the opportunity to play an NX yet? I know you get to see a lot of equipment around their press release dates.


Yeah I had a brief bash with it at Roland in Japan a few weeks ago. I must admit it really did sound like a GXF to me. I couldn't tell the difference except for the screen. I was there to look at something else so I didn't spend more then 5 mins with it. Key's felt good... great actually. Sound design button seemed like a compressor to me too as I recall. One thing I can tell you is that the new Roland stereo keyboard amp they had it hooked too was about 1000% better then any other Roland amp I've heard which wouldn't be hard I admit. Untweaked the Ep's arn't up to CP1/5 standard but the interface is familiar and the new screen looks good. I'm not a huge nitpicker so I'll give it a high pass.. but I didn't know then about the lack of voices, effects and arpeggios. If that's true I'd advise people to buy the GXF instead. The new keys and screen don't make up for those. I'd need a few hours to make a proper assessment and that's not going to happen until I get away from this current horror movie that is masquerading as a gig that I'm involved with.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/10 11:47 PM

Thanks for the feedback Dr P!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 12:37 AM

Yep, thanks for these tasty insights Dr Popper.

By the way, did you come to Hamamatsu (well, Miyakoda specifically...) to try the new Rolands?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 12:53 AM

It wasn't in Toyko it was about 2 hours south on the way towards Osaka close to Yamaha actually. I saw them both that day. We went on down to Osaka afterward.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 01:18 AM

Dr Popper, yes, that's Hamamatsu. wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 01:22 AM

With regard to the PHAIII and PHAIII-S, I'd written to Roland to get a feedback and this is their reply:

"PHA-3 is the two piece action from the V-Piano® and PHA-3S is the new one piece composite material action for the FP-series.
FP-7F has no arranger style but does have session partner, which are styles that you can program chord progressions."

Comparing the brochures of the FP-7F and HP-307:

FP-7F: The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action.....
The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.

HP-307: The "PHA III" keyboard translates into sound the differences in how you play. The HP307 comes with the "PHA III" keyboard, which delivers superior repetition and expressivity than the "PHA II" keyboard. Along with the "SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine," subtle differences in how one plays are faithfully reflected in the sound.....
The Ivory-Feel keyboard replicates the texture of ivory and ebony. Modeled after high-end acoustic grand pianos, the white and black key tops are made of a material that replicates the unique appearance and texture of real ivory and ebony keys. The white keys consist of a two piece "surface over base material" construction to create the same appearance you would find on an acoustic piano and reduce the noise of
fingernails tapping the keys. Thanks to its moisture-absorbing characteristics, the more you play the Ivory-Feel keyboard, the better it feels.

From the above, it seems the ACTION is the same. The difference seems to be in the IVORY FEEL part. The Deluxe version has BOTH White and Black keys coated and also the White keys have a TWO piece construction. The S version has only the White keys coated and has a ONE piece construction.

Also note that they write both as PHAIII. The difference is when they write the Ivory Feel part in a box. Its either Ivory Feel or Ivory Feel S.

Brian

Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
No Arpeggios
Less SN voices
Less effects

Are there really fewer SN basic voices, or just fewer patches?

Why in the world would they yank out the arpeggiator?

I'm curious Dr Popper, have you had the opportunity to play an NX yet? I know you get to see a lot of equipment around their press release dates.


Yeah I had a brief bash with it at Roland in Japan a few weeks ago. I must admit it really did sound like a GXF to me. I couldn't tell the difference except for the screen. I was there to look at something else so I didn't spend more then 5 mins with it. Key's felt good... great actually. Sound design button seemed like a compressor to me too as I recall. One thing I can tell you is that the new Roland stereo keyboard amp they had it hooked too was about 1000% better then any other Roland amp I've heard which wouldn't be hard I admit. Untweaked the Ep's arn't up to CP1/5 standard but the interface is familiar and the new screen looks good. I'm not a huge nitpicker so I'll give it a high pass.. but I didn't know then about the lack of voices, effects and arpeggios. If that's true I'd advise people to buy the GXF instead. The new keys and screen don't make up for those. I'd need a few hours to make a proper assessment and that's not going to happen until I get away from this current horror movie that is masquerading as a gig that I'm involved with.


Hey Dr. Popper, was this keyboard amp a yet to be released amp or one that is already out. BTW, thanks for the brief run through of the NX. What you mentioned about it was what I thought it would be. cool
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 01:37 AM

Brian - thanks so much for contacting Roland - much appreciated.

Greg.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 01:39 AM

Dr Popper, James,

Did you'll get a chance to try out the FP-7F?

Brian
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Dr Popper, James,

Did you'll get a chance to try out the FP-7F?

Brian


Ummm not me I was there for another reason as I said. I looked at the NX the new Juno and the other thingy I was there to see and that was it. I had both Roland and Yamaha to do then onto another city for a TV show.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/09/10 02:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73


Hey Dr. Popper, was this keyboard amp a yet to be released amp or one that is already out.


I think its out one of their little KC ones but they had two linked together to make it stereo. Sounded quite ok.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 08:00 AM

Dewster,

I had posted this on the Kawai CA13 thread in response to your write up on Note Stretching and String Resonance. LaRate wanted it moved to another thread as he felt that his thread was more to do with the features of CA13 and not a shoot out of DP's. So, please dont mind me posting it here to get a feed back from the pros on this thread.

From the Clavinova website...
String Resonance : CLP380, CLP295GP, CVP509, CVP409GP, CGP1000
String Resonance is available only on their top line models models.

Kawai offers String Resonance on their mid level models as well...
CA63, CA93, CA111, CN42, CN33.

Roland seems to offer String Resonance on all their products which have the SuperNATURAL sound engine...
Piano Effects:
Open/Close Lid (0 — 6),
Cabinet Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
Hammer Noise (-2 — 2),
Damper Noise (Off, 1 — 10),
Duplex Scale (Off, 1 — 10),
Damper Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
String Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
Key Off Resonance (Off, 1 — 10).
Models which have the SuperNATURAL sound engine include HP302, 305, 307, LX-10F, HPi-6F, HPi-7F, DP-990F, DP-990RF, V-Piano, RD700GFX, RD700NX, FP-7F
(the above details are from the FP-7F brochure).

Is it possible to have the details of Note Decay timings of the above mentioned products (those studied so far).

Brian

Posted by: kishonti

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 09:01 AM

Not all of the listed effects included in all SuperNatural pianos.

Only Damper, String and Key Off Resonances are included in cheaper models, but these are included even in the budget models, like F110 and RP201, which have the old sound module (non-SuperNatural, inherited from HP200 series).
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 09:24 AM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Is it possible to have the details of Note Decay timings of the above mentioned products (those studied so far).

Note decay timing is something I only roughly estimate, as there is obviously no hard and fast rule as to how long it should be.

You are free to go through the review text file and correlate anything you like. It's located here.

Edit: I believe you are perhaps referring to the quality of the note decay rather than the timing? Audible looping is the big killer there, something almost all DPs suffer from to one degree or another. Though very often short note decay time and obvious looping go hand-in-hand. Roland SN APs don't have audible looping and the resulting decay is quite realistic sounding to my ears.
Posted by: McDonuts

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 01:15 PM

On the Roland RD700GX (and F), the decay time is independently adjustable. All of the parameters of what would normally be called the "envelope generator" in a proper synth are adjustable as well: attack, release, decay, cutoff, etc.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 01:37 PM

That is a different decay...the adjustable bit is the time it takes the note to finish sounding when struck and released...the decay that is blighted by looping in most DPs is the sustained decay, ie, note held until all sound stops...that is not adjustable in any DP that I'm aware of.

Steve
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/10/10 02:52 PM

Is it safe to say that Yamaha, Kawai, Roland have the following best key actions:
Yamaha: GH3 & NW
Kawai: Responsive Hammer (RH) & RM3 (wood)
Roland: PHAIII -S & PHAIII

Also for their best sound sample:
Yamaha: Pure CF sampling (4-5 layer)
Kawai: Ultra PHI
Roland: SuperNATURAL

Now, can someone come up with both these featurs as a combination in these company's DP's and at what price.
Lets add String Resonance as an important feature.

<USD 2000:
<USD 3000:
<USD 4000:

Am just trying to figure out the best combination available from companies at different price points to enable people to shortlist and then tryout before buying.

Brian
Posted by: Erard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/12/10 06:32 PM

I found these two high resolution photos of the RD700NX and FP-7F interesting:

http://www.rockpalace.com/gfx_productcode/XL/117088/Roland-FP7F-Black.jpg
http://www.rockpalace.com/gfx_productcode/XL/117086/Roland-RD700NX.jpg

The different material of the black keys is clearly visible. The keyboard of the 7F looks cheaper to me
The NX keyboard looks (and must feel) so much better...
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 03:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Erard
The different material of the black keys is clearly visible. The keyboard of the 7F looks cheaper to me
The NX keyboard looks (and must feel) so much better...


You have a better eye than me, Erard! The lighting in the two photos is completely different (700NX more top/back-lit, slightly yellow coloration; 7F side-lit, blueish whites/blacks), which gives different reflections and ambiance. So I'm not sure where you're seeing the "cheapness" of the 7F. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's not obvious to me.
Posted by: Erard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 12:09 PM

Yes, I did notice the different lighting. What I was referring to is the shiny plastic look of the black keys on the 7F compared to the NX which seems to have some kind of 'ivory feel' surface treatment on the black keys also.

From Roland literature:
NX - ...The keyboard also features Roland’s acclaimed Ivory Feel, a comfortable and realistic moisture-absorbent material...
FP-7F - ...The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys...

Turning things around, let's say that to me the keyboard of the NX looks classier in comparison to the F7 keyboard.

I personally enjoy the looks and feel, for example, of my C3 grand keyboard (ivorite and wood composite) compared to the '96 C2 I had before - every time I sit down to play.
I have a 'shiny' P90 and in my experience the new ivory-like materials used on many APs and DPs do make a difference when playing - besides looking better, from my point of view.
I'm planning to buy a new DP soon and I have narrowed it down to one of the PHA III keyboards, and now to these two. The different black keys could tip the scale toward the NX for me, even if I don't need the extra functions much.
On the other side, if that's the only difference as far as the keyboard is concerned, for piano use the 7F looks like a good value indeed. We'll see in November, after a hands on test.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 05:50 PM

Wouldn't the black keys have "ebony feel" or something similar? To me "ivory feel" means they are talking mainly about the white keys, and along with it they likely have some kind of matte finish on the black keys.

I kind of don't believe Roland would go to the trouble of putting "ivory feel" white keys in the FP-7F and then say "oh, what the hell" and just slap in a set of cheap shiny black keys.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 07:25 PM

The only product where ebony feel is explicitly mentioned is the V-Piano, AFAIK. wink

Greg.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 07:42 PM

Just browsing the Roland specs, I see this statement for the RG-1 ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=969&ParentId=21 ):

"The white keys have a two-piece structure that reduces the surface “click” noise when playing."

Can anyone shed any light on this? Why does a two-piece structure reduce the click noise? If it's true, then it looks like there really is a non-cosmetic benefit from the two-piece keys. smile (although, why oh why don't Roland state this for ALL products that use a two-piece structure? Do some two-piece structures NOT provide this benefit? Arrgh.)

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 07:54 PM

I'm still waiting on the NX and FP user manuals. Very curious as to what is added / missing in the NX compared to the GXF.

Manuals should be provided concurrently with the press release (or very shortly after) if for nothing else then to reduce wild and possibly harmful speculation.

Roland?
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 09:21 PM

It sure would be nice to have a rep from Roland provide answers to these various questions.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/13/10 10:57 PM

This is what i've posted earlier on page 5 of this thread.....


With regard to the PHAIII and PHAIII-S, I'd written to Roland to get a feedback and this is their reply:
"PHA-3 is the two piece action from the V-Piano® and PHA-3S is the new one piece composite material action for the FP-series."


Comparing the brochures of the FP-7F and HP-307: (compare the second paragraph of each)

FP-7F: The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action.....
The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.

HP-307: The "PHA III" keyboard translates into sound the differences in how you play. The HP307 comes with the "PHA III" keyboard, which delivers superior repetition and expressivity than the "PHA II" keyboard. Along with the "SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine," subtle differences in how one plays are faithfully reflected in the sound.....
The Ivory-Feel keyboard replicates the texture of ivory and ebony. Modeled after high-end acoustic grand pianos, the white and black key tops are made of a material that replicates the unique appearance and texture of real ivory and ebony keys. The white keys consist of a two piece "surface over base material" construction to create the same appearance you would find on an acoustic piano and reduce the noise of fingernails tapping the keys. Thanks to its moisture-absorbing characteristics, the more you play the Ivory-Feel keyboard, the better it feels.

From the above, it seems the ACTION is the same. The difference seems to be in the IVORY FEEL part. The Deluxe version has BOTH White and Black keys coated and also the White keys have a TWO piece construction. The S version seems to have has only the White keys coated and has a ONE piece construction.

Also note that they write both as PHAIII. The difference is when they write the Ivory Feel part in a box. Its either Ivory Feel or Ivory Feel S.

Brian
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/14/10 12:03 AM

Ah yes - the brochures. Thanks Brian. smile I had been reading the web pages only - not the brochures. The brochures appear to be a bit more thorough. For example, there is no mention of ebony-feel or the fingernail clicking on the HP307 site. ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1055&ParentId=40 )

Greg.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/14/10 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
Just browsing the Roland specs, I see this statement for the RG-1 ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=969&ParentId=21 ):

"The white keys have a two-piece structure that reduces the surface “click” noise when playing."

Can anyone shed any light on this? Why does a two-piece structure reduce the click noise?


My guess is that it reduces or removes the echo from a hollow plastic key when you tap it.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/14/10 06:42 PM

I really think you're all massively over-thinking this...

The FP7-F action will be identical except for the appearance of the fake wood sides to the keys on the other PHA-III equipped instruments. They can't say this of course...from a marketing point of view they're not going to say of the FP7-F keys "We took our award-winning ultra-responsive PHA-III action with escapement and ivory feel and made it a bit cheaper and less wooden looking".

It's a PHA-III with white keys made out of one material. Right, there you go. Now you can all go and chillax!
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/15/10 03:28 AM

PHAIII action is what everyone would be interested in. The material used should not be of concern. Knowing Roland, it would be of a good quality.

Afterall, The FP-7 is a MMR 2008 winner.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/15/10 05:36 AM

Is there really no single Roland employee reading forums like this and willing to clear this up once and for all ?! Where's the "Roland James" in this respect. Kawai has a better representative I would say; seems that the Roland guys don't give a ....
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/16/10 11:54 PM

Here's the query posed to Roland and the reply: FP-7F (PHAIII-S)

My main concern is that key action/behavior should be the same. The material used is secondary.

"Very similar, but the material does make a very slight difference in action/behavior due to the weight of the material used for the keys.

Ivory Feel is only on the white keys as the black keys are made to simulate ebony material which was a more matte, smoother finish than ivory."
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/17/10 03:08 PM

Agh. Just got the word from Sweetwater that the 700NX may not be in till December. Crossing fingers that it won't be THAT long... Still hoping for November.

EDIT: Another site projects December 3rd. I hope Roland is being pessimistic with those numbers...
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/17/10 04:36 PM

@bsl100 ; so it seems that the FP7F keys are actually pretty good and largely comparable to the NX keybed. The difference is in the details, but it might actually turn out in practice that some may even prefer the FP7F keys above the RD700NX. When they can be compared side-by-side we will know the truth...just a little more patience, let's say a month or tree.
Posted by: Musical Dan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/18/10 07:00 AM

Just noticed something on the video for the RD700NX. It looks like the "Brilliant Grand" might not be SuperNatural.

Watch the video here: http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx

When the screen flashes through the different pianos and electric pianos it says SuperNatural under all of them (Concert Grand, Studio Grand, Tine E.Piano, Reed E.Piano, SA E.Piano) EXCEPT... it is left blank under the Brilliant Grand.

Interesting...
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/18/10 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Musical Dan
Just noticed something on the video for the RD700NX. It looks like the "Brilliant Grand" might not be SuperNatural.


It's SuperNatural. The video was likely made with an early OS. I suspect the release version will say SuperNatural, like the rest of the patches. It seems a tad redundant to put it on all of the patches.
Posted by: Musical Dan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/18/10 07:53 AM

Ahh ok thanks. It's looking more and more likely that this is the DP I'll end up purchasing.
Posted by: Musical Dan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/19/10 11:01 PM

Just curious, is there any hint of Roland planning to make an RD300NX?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/19/10 11:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Musical Dan
Just curious, is there any hint of Roland planning to make an RD300NX?

Now that would be interesting. The 300GX did not persuade me to upgrade my 300SX, but maybe an NX version would tip the scales...
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/19/10 11:26 PM

Yes, an RD-300NX would be pretty awesome.

Although with the FP-7F looking so good on paper, I wonder if it would be really necessary.

Perhaps we'll see an updated FP-4F and RD-300NX announced simultaneously
at NAMM 2011?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/10 09:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Perhaps we'll see an updated FP-4F...

A DP designed specifically for draft dodgers?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/10 11:09 AM

Sorry, you'll have to explain that one I'm afraid...

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/10 11:39 AM

4-F - a military conscription classification for someone medically unfit to be drafted. People jumped off roofs to get flat feet, punctured their eardrums, etc. to avoid the meat grinder.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/10 11:44 AM

"The meat grinder" - what a perfect epithet!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/25/10 07:00 AM

I see that Zzounds has the RD-700NX listed for $2399, with an in-stock date of October 14, 2010.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/25/10 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
I see that Zzounds has the RD-700NX listed for $2399, with an in-stock date of October 14, 2010.


Yeah, previously they were showing September 28th.. American Musical Supply is showing October 4. I assume these dates will change again, though.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/01/10 04:45 PM

Any word on when the RD700NX will start shipping? I've read this entire thread and the Roland Clan threads and since I own the RD700GXF, I'm going to have to wait to play both before deciding to buy online. I was really about to buy the V-Piano, but many on here got me thinking otherwise, and at the time I was giving most consideration to buying the V-Piano, I was not aware of the RD700NX, so I've all but ruled out the V-Piano now. I'm leaning heavily towards the NX. I'm gonna need to play it though, so if anyone on the inside has more info on ship dates, I'd greatly appreciate it!
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/01/10 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I was really about to buy the V-Piano, but many on here got me thinking otherwise, and at the time I was giving most consideration to buying the V-Piano, I was not aware of the RD700NX, so I've all but ruled out the V-Piano now.

I've only played the V-piano once, and speaking only about its tonal qualities, know I could not have lived with it.

I'm hoping that the NX etc. will not suffer from the same mid-range problems as the V. PianoZac, since you already have a 700 with the SuperNatural APs, maybe you could give an indication of how "natural" these samples actually sound. I'm also curious, are you looking at the NX purely for the new action, as I had heard that there will be no difference in the sound between the GXF and the NX?
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/04/10 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
[quote=PianoZac]
I'm hoping that the NX etc. will not suffer from the same mid-range problems as the V. PianoZac, since you already have a 700 with the SuperNatural APs, maybe you could give an indication of how "natural" these samples actually sound. I'm also curious, are you looking at the NX purely for the new action, as I had heard that there will be no difference in the sound between the GXF and the NX?

Voxpops, I don't think the RD-700NX will have the same mid range issues as the V-Piano because though the 700NX has the SuperNATURAL sound engine built in, it's not the same sound engine as the V-Piano. As far as the action difference between the PHA II and PHA III, if the PHA III on the new 700NX is anything like the V-Piano, that in itself is is worth the price to sell my 700GXF and upgrade to the 700NX. The SN sounds on my GXF are stunningly real, esp for a stage piano. The Grand Piano 3 and Grand Piano 4 are incredible sounding pianos. They not only make the piano sound better, but make it feel more realistic because of the more realistic decay/resonance etc. If the 700NX with built in SuperNATURAL sound engine produces as good or better sounds (I think they'll be even better than the 700GXF) and combined with the new action, I am swayed to go for the 700NX. I've long been saying I wanted many of the SN pianos and PHA III action of the V-Piano in the RD-700 shell, and the NX looks to be that keyboard. Plus Roland is now offering the RPU-3 triple pedal system for the 700NX (and all RD-700 series boards) so this makes the 700NX that much more appealing for me.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/04/10 01:11 PM

Thanks for that very informative response, Zachary. It is going to be an interesting dilemma 700NX, MP6, MP10...
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 01:07 AM

What I can't understand is why the NX would fix anything the V-Piano might have had problems with. Better piano at less than half price doesn't make sense. Or is it just too good to be true for real for once?

It seems reading through many threads here and this entire topic that most farour Roland over Yamaha/Kawai/etc. But after spending some time with alot of digital pianos (it was more like a few hours, going back and fourth between the pianos) What I found was the Yamaha CP1/5 blew Rolands counterparts away. And I used headphones for all of them and tried to stay to factory settings. After saving up for a month I was litterally on my way to buy a CP5 (got the cash stacked up in front of me as I type). 
Now, to get on topic again, reading a few last minute comparisons I don't know why but I've completely missed news of RD700NX and FP-7F. It does seem like a perfect match for what I was looking for but I cannot forget how I didn't like any of the Roland piano sounds compared to the clinical but very much alive Yamaha. The action of V-Piano was ofcourse stellar but sadly as it was way out of my budget I did not spend as much time on it as the FP-4/7/RD700GX etc. And maybe that biased my taste towards the Yamaha a bit.

I guess the general advice of this thread is to wait and see what the NX can do to come to the final verdict. But I though I'd ramble a bit and just ask anyway beacuse of my general sceptisism of Roland smile

Side note, I did also try a few Kurzweils, a Nord Piano and a Korg SV1 but they sounded like dead fish in comparison. Good but stale.

P.S. Oh god I should have stayed away from this forum. Now that the kawai mp10 also come to my attention as the cross between yamaha CP1/5 but even better paper specs (and by some early testers piano feel as well) it seems perfect for us that dont really dig the Roland sound - and I'll never get a piano. I'll be waiting forever new products just overlapping eachother into infinity. If it didn't rain this morning I'd have me a CP5 by now haha D.S.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
What I can't understand is why the NX would fix anything the V-Piano might have had problems with.

But after spending some time with alot of digital pianos (it was more like a few hours, going back and fourth between the pianos) What I found was the Yamaha CP1/5 blew Rolands counterparts away.
Now, to get on topic again, reading a few last minute comparisons I don't know why but I've completely missed news of RD700NX and FP-7F.

If it didn't rain this morning I'd have me a CP5 by now haha D.S.



First of all, congrats on the new CP5. I know you've got to be stoked. As far as the CP1/5 blowing away the Roland counter-parts, I found just the opposite to be true which is exactly the dilemma. There is no 'best' when you're talking about something as personal as sound/action/price of digital pianos. I much preferred playing the V-Piano over the CP1, and I still like my RD700GXF over the CP5, although the CP5 is really growing on me. If I don't like the RD700NX, I'll hang on to my RD700GXF. I just ordered Roland's new tri-pedal unit (like ont he V-Piano), the RPU-3, that they offer on all RD-700 series, including the NX, and FP-7F, so that should further add to the amazing board the GXF already is.

As far as how the NX will be address issues that the V-Piano has is simple really. For starters, the *only* problems I've seen with the V-Piano are some of the mid range sounds, and the physical weight of the keyboard. It's too heavy really to effectively gig with unless you've got regular help. Now the mid range issues with the V-Piano are already addressed with the SuperNATURAL card in the RD700GXF, as the GXF doesn't suffer from the same mid range issues. So, since the RD700NX won't have the same sound engine as the V-Piano, it's assumed it will sound more like an improved GXF, rather than the V-Piano. Add to that the PHA III Ivory Feel action that the V-Piano also has, and you could potentially have a really incredible DP. My RD700GXF feels more authentic to me than the CP5, and it's only got the PHA II Ivory Feel action/keys. Once again though, these are all opinions and obviously opinions vary wildly as to what sounds/plays best.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 06:31 PM

While poking around I ran across this Roland video of the RD-700NX:

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?vid=45219532


Also found this flyer over at American Musical Supply:

http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemFiles/Manual/ROL_RD700NX_Manual.pdf


Rainbow Guitars says first week of November for shipping their NX pre-orders. Anyone here ever buy anything from them? I ask because they have an incredible deal on the Roland TD-4S Electronic Drum Kit W/Accessory Package for ~$1k, free shipping, and Roland has a $200 rebate going on that until the end of the year. Link.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac

First of all, congrats on the new CP5.


Well I ended up not buying it for the time being and istead prowled the forums and found the indication that the Kawai mp-10 was just my cup of tea until the point of preordering it if it was possible.

I have to consider that the sound has to cut through a mix of a guitar and drums blasting away and my own singing ontop if it all. I think that's what I like about the Yamaha. It sort of tickles my eardrums and give me a pleasant sensation (even though it does sound more plastic) where the Roland sound are more rich and full but more rounded off in the corners if that give any decent explanation.

It is so true that all the piano sounds in this price range sound amazing and its down to personal preference in the end. But as marketting knows it's easy to be swayed in either direction when a strong voice favours one before the other (even if you blind test some for yourself afterwards).

Liked the V-piano feel so much, and with the release of NX so close I might as well wait and see.

But really what I want would be to sit behind a grand with one single amazing sound and be content. Why must that be so hard? smile
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
[So, since the RD700NX won't have the same sound engine as the V-Piano, it's assumed it will sound more like an improved GXF, rather than the V-Piano.


Actually, it's assumed to sound the same as the RD-700GXF (SuperNatural voices), not an improved GXF.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/06/10 08:33 PM

This what I understand too, that SN piano sound in the NX should be largely the same as the GXF, though probably better integrated. PHAIII is the main reason to get the NX.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 10:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
[So, since the RD700NX won't have the same sound engine as the V-Piano, it's assumed it will sound more like an improved GXF, rather than the V-Piano.


Actually, it's assumed to sound the same as the RD-700GXF (SuperNatural voices), not an improved GXF.

Well, good friend of mine, and long time Roland rep, mentioned the NX had more refined SN voices, as well as more SN voices. Don't know if he's correct, but I'll wait and see. The main reason I'm interested in the NX is what Dewster said...=>

Originally Posted By: dewster
This what I understand too, that SN piano sound in the NX should be largely the same as the GXF, though probably better integrated. PHAIII is the main reason to get the NX.

Yep, which is why I went ahead and pre-ordered one from Sweetwater. I've got a friend over there, and he put me on the list. There are 5 RD-700NX coming in and I was the 5th buyer. He said it'd be another delay after those 5 are gone. I checked most places online, and they were sold out of their backordered RD-700NXs. I also ordered the RPU-3 tri-pedal for my RD-700GXF which should be in end of next week. I'll use that with my NX when it gets here, but in the meantime I'll test it out on my GXF.
Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
Originally Posted By: PianoZac

First of all, congrats on the new CP5.



Liked the V-piano feel so much, and with the release of NX so close I might as well wait and see.

But really what I want would be to sit behind a grand with one single amazing sound and be content. Why must that be so hard? smile


I agree with you! Why can't we all be in a position to have grand pianos!!?? Such is life. :-) The new DPs are really nice though. We've got to give kudos to the manufacturers for putting out some impressive DPs.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 11:17 AM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
[So, since the RD700NX won't have the same sound engine as the V-Piano, it's assumed it will sound more like an improved GXF, rather than the V-Piano.


Actually, it's assumed to sound the same as the RD-700GXF (SuperNatural voices), not an improved GXF.

Well, good friend of mine, and long time Roland rep, mentioned the NX had more refined SN voices, as well as more SN voices. Don't know if he's correct, but I'll wait and see. The main reason I'm interested in the NX is what Dewster said...=>

Originally Posted By: dewster
This what I understand too, that SN piano sound in the NX should be largely the same as the GXF, though probably better integrated. PHAIII is the main reason to get the NX.

Yep, which is why I went ahead and pre-ordered one from Sweetwater. I've got a friend over there, and he put me on the list. There are 5 RD-700NX coming in and I was the 5th buyer. He said it'd be another delay after those 5 are gone. I checked most places online, and they were sold out of their backordered RD-700NXs. I also ordered the RPU-3 tri-pedal for my RD-700GXF which should be in end of next week. I'll use that with my NX when it gets here, but in the meantime I'll test it out on my GXF.
Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
Originally Posted By: PianoZac

First of all, congrats on the new CP5.



Liked the V-piano feel so much, and with the release of NX so close I might as well wait and see.

But really what I want would be to sit behind a grand with one single amazing sound and be content. Why must that be so hard? smile


I agree with you! Why can't we all be in a position to have grand pianos!!?? Such is life. :-) The new DPs are really nice though. We've got to give kudos to the manufacturers for putting out some impressive DPs.


When did you order your NX and does your friend know when they will be in? Also getting mine from Swetwater so I was just curious smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 11:48 AM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
I have to consider that the sound has to cut through a mix of a guitar and drums blasting away and my own singing ontop if it all. I think that's what I like about the Yamaha.

The NX has that new "Sound Focus" thingie on it.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 11:52 AM

7even, when did you order your NX? I ordered mine last Friday. As soon as my friend was like "we have 5 backordered and 4 of the 5 are ordered" I was like, done. He said Sweetwater was receiving the first NXs by the end of November. I can't wait to play this thing.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Well, good friend of mine, and long time Roland rep, mentioned the NX had more refined SN voices, as well as more SN voices. Don't know if he's correct, but I'll wait and see.

From the RD-700NX flyer:
The RD-700NX’s acoustic piano sounds are derived from Roland’s acclaimed SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine. There are three acoustic piano types onboard (Concert, Studio, and Brilliant) and 30 variations to choose from.

From the K-RD700GX1 flyer:
17 new SuperNATURAL Pianos customized for the RD-700GX
SN01 Grand Piano
SN02 Clear Grand
SN03 MellowGrand
SN04 BrightGrand
SN05 Grand Piano2
SN06 UprightPiano
SN07 RagtimeGrand
SN08 Comp Piano
SN09 Grand Piano3
SN10 Grand Piano4
SN11 BrightGrand2
SN12 MellowGrand2
SN13 Honky-Tonk
SN14 Comp Piano2
SN15 Grand Mono
SN16 Mellow Mono
SN17 Bright Mono


It seems to me that something has possibly changed with regard to the SN AP voices between the GXF and the NX. It could be that it's just presets, or it could be new samples. I really wish they would release the owner's manual for the NX. It's kind of strange that we don't have an official manual for the GXF at this point as well.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 12:23 PM

I just ordered my RD700NX from Sweetwater also this morning. My sales engineer matched the price from ZZ Sounds which was $2399. Said the next shipment date was the 3rd week of November. I guess I can wait, barely! Ordered the RPU-3 3 pedal footboard yesterday. Should be here soon. Played the RD700GXF at Guitar Center last weekend & loved it so the NX was a no brainer. Don't know if the SN engine sounds are any different but the PHA III keys should be a nice touch. laugh smile laugh
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 01:17 PM

To confuse the matter for myself some more I went down to my local dealer and took my own headphones and sat through the whole store in just about 4 hours. They had an amazing price on the 700GX (without module but at like $1300) so I had to give it a chance. And no I didn't like it more this time but I happened to come across a HP307 which completely blew my mind. It was really pleasant to play so I ruled out the CP5. Then I found out that the HP307 and GX had the same keybed. Yet two different worlds when played. Really strange and didn't help my one bit. He will get a NX for me to try out however so it does look good on this forgotten place of earth as well.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
Then I found out that the HP307 and GX had the same keybed. Yet two different worlds when played. Really strange and didn't help my one bit. He will get a NX for me to try out however so it does look good on this forgotten place of earth as well.

The RD-700GX has the PHA II Ivory Feel action while the HP-307 has the PHA III Ivory Feel action. This excites me even more that I am getting the NX with PHA III action. Every time I play PHA III action then go back to my PHA II, I'm always impressed with how authentic the PHA III action is.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=923&ParentId=87
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1055
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
7even, when did you order your NX? I ordered mine last Friday. As soon as my friend was like "we have 5 backordered and 4 of the 5 are ordered" I was like, done. He said Sweetwater was receiving the first NXs by the end of November. I can't wait to play this thing.


Ahh. I put in my order the day after they were announced, at the beginning of September. I guess I'm one of the first then grin
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 02:03 PM

Oh, I must have read the details of 305. Blind tested myself what a pleasant surprice! The keys had the same weight but felt more balanced than on the GX. Not that swish-stomp kind of motion, but more swoop-thud. The difference was clear as day to me. It was harder to kind of stumble across the notes in a jazzy fashion than on the CP5 (much less forgiving with a more naked piano sound to boot. Imagined myself playing fast passages of chopin with a smirk on my face with it). Was about to pull my trigger but I remembered I'm waiting for the Kawai MP10 and how it compares with the NX (see I am going back to topic smile ).
Posted by: PeteF

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
I just ordered my RD700NX from Sweetwater also this morning. My sales engineer matched the price from ZZ Sounds which was $2399.


Sales Engineer??? Please don't tell me salesman are calling themselves "engineers" now too? mad
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: PeteF

Sales Engineer??? Please don't tell me salesman are calling themselves "engineers" now too? mad


Ah, we get Sales Consultants over here. Just as bad.
Posted by: PeteF

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/07/10 06:03 PM

Nah I'll give them "consultant". After all, all the consultants I know are over-paid under-skilled desk-jockeys who's only sign of intelligence over the past 20 years was to take the redundancy package offered by their employer before the company realised the "restructuring" program implemented by the pimply-faced MBA fresh out of grad school was a load of bollocks, and re-employed all the previous staff as "consultants" at twice their previous pay and conditions. smirk

Edit: Sorry, what was the question? :P
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 08:27 AM

Yeah thats what they're calling themselves but this guy is quite knowledgable.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 08:39 AM

Sweetwater is different ...... they really are sales engineers they often know much more then you do.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
I just ordered my RD700NX from Sweetwater also this morning. My sales engineer matched the price from ZZ Sounds which was $2399. Ordered the RPU-3 3 pedal footboard yesterday. Should be here soon.


I ordered my RD-700NX last Friday @ $2599, and emailed my sales guy, told him about the $2399 RD-700NX price at Zzounds and he matched it. Just saved me $200, which covers the cost of my RPU-3 plus another $100! I'm a happy camper.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 01:39 PM

Way to go Zac, theres always a silver lining. You just have to look for it.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
Way to go Zac, theres always a silver lining. You just have to look for it.

Thanks Greg, and congrats to you on your purchases. It sounds like you and I have the same (see great) taste in musical instruments! A killer combo to be sure-RD-700NX + RPU-3 tri-pedal. :-)
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 04:03 PM

Yeah I guess we do Zac smile Wasn't sure about the tri-pedal setup but figured I could use it to control some other functions of the keyboard. This is my first DP so it'll be a little bit of a learning curve I guess. Anyway I'm ready! Just wish I didn't have to wait till Thanksgiving for mine.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
Yeah I guess we do Zac smile Wasn't sure about the tri-pedal setup but figured I could use it to control some other functions of the keyboard. This is my first DP so it'll be a little bit of a learning curve I guess. Anyway I'm ready! Just wish I didn't have to wait till Thanksgiving for mine.


lol you guys are making me want an RPU-3 for my 700NX!
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 05:17 PM

Go for it 7even!
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 08:13 PM

They have called themselves Sales Engineers for years. Who cares? If you like the prices and service it matters nought!
Posted by: PeteF

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/08/10 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
They have called themselves Sales Engineers for years. Who cares? If you like the prices and service it matters nought!


Maybe real engineers care, you know, the ones that spent many years at university for the right to call themselves Engineers! mad What's next, "Sales Doctor"? "Sales Professor"? It has nothing to do with how much knowledge a person may have, it is a title that is earned. Just a general dumbing down of qualifications, real ones, that I don't think is right, and hugely disrespectful to those who have done the hard yards. Medical Doctors now comment that thanks to the internet, many patients are presenting with a better understanding of their own specific medical condition than the doctors themselves, but that sure as heck doesn't mean the patients are doctors! I wonder how some experienced musicians here would feel if I announced I was a "concert pianist", after all I've been playing a month now, matters nought right mad

Sorry for the OT digression, just POed by those who are too lazy to do the deal themselves and just claim the end result. Now about the 700NX laugh
Posted by: Musical Dan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/09/10 02:40 AM

Does Roland make a double pedal set? With the 3 pedal inputs on the NX I'd like to have 2 pedals plus an expression pedal.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/09/10 02:45 AM

The 3 pedal unit has 3 separate cables. You can plug them in whatever holes you want.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/09/10 02:33 PM

Tell us how you really feel Pete smile
Posted by: PeteF

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/09/10 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
Tell us how you really feel Pete smile


Nah, I'm the shy, quiet type who likes to keep his opinions to himself laugh

Sorry for the OT digression, but I must admit it was a term I'd never come across before. Sales "Engineer"... FFS! shocked

Edit: Unless they ARE actually engineers who happen to work in sales. Goodness knows the money is better there so can't say I'd blame them!
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/09/10 05:43 PM

I emailed Roland to find out when they would be putting up the manual for the NX & they said they hadn't received it yet from Japan. When they do get it then they'll put it up for download. Can't believe these DPs are already selling here in the US but no manual yet.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/10/10 08:33 AM

Not of any significance but I'm jumping on the wagon as well. I havn't tried it but getting a MP10, my previous first choice, would really be buying a pig in a poke. Can't find a dealer with the GM3 Grand keybed in stock and can't make anything out of kawais product presentations. Another con for me I don't have the time to wait for the MP10 to hit europe. Might not happen until january even if you order it straight from Japan. I don't have a piano at all at the moment and my local dealer (wealer?) is probably going to blacklist me for coming in every day jamming out at the store without buying anything.

The 307 (and even the 305) was a pleasant surprice and I think the NX will just be 'good enough' for me.

I still plan getting a MP10 but it'll have to wait.

Writing in slight apprehension hoping someone will pat my back and say: yes! you made the right choice son! Guess I'll find out the hard way in about four weeks.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/10/10 10:48 AM

Yes! You made the right choice son! Seriously I think the NX will be a great piano so much so you just might forget about the MP 10!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/10/10 06:34 PM

I second Greg. I think you made a good call going with The NX. I have to ask though, is this going to be a home DP or a stage DP??
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/10/10 07:12 PM

Stage use is the main idea. I suspect though since I rehearse and practice at home more than I play live you could also call it a home DP. But I'm not buying for it's aesthetic qualities, or lack thereof smile
My current home also happens to be a studio so whatever I put in there is going to look out of place unless it has an LCD screen and knobs somewhere.

I'm not yet at the point of my career when I get to play at venues that has a grand in the back, or an extra DP at home for that matter, but we're getting there. Someday hehe.

Now, what were we talking about again?

Fred

P.S. Thanks guys, it does feel a bit better now. D.S.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/11/10 07:11 AM

Mine is going to be used as a home DP much more than on stage. Just couldn't pass up all those extras on the NX.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/11/10 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
Stage use is the main idea. I suspect though since I rehearse and practice at home more than I play live you could also call it a home DP. But I'm not buying for it's aesthetic qualities, or lack thereof smile


P.S. Thanks guys, it does feel a bit better now. D.S.

Well then, I think you made an even wiser choice. Even though the RD-700NX weighs 55lbs, it's still much lighter than the MP8, MP8II, and the upcoming MP10. Heck the MP8 weighed over 70lbs, and MP8ii weighed 77lbs! The weight makes a big difference when you're hauling it around all the time. Aside from the weigh though, with the SN sound engine, and PHA III action, the NX is going to be a monster stage DP.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 06:15 AM

Got my reservation of the first batch hitting europe confirmed. It seems to be the 25 of november, two weeks later than you guys. Also mailed thomann.de if I could pick it up earlier in Germany as I travel there now and then but they get it in the first days of december - even later.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 09:16 AM

Irony strikes back yet again. Finally heard from a dealer a train ride away who gets the MP10 in by 1st of december and will be able to ship it to my doorstep about the same time. Had he been about six hours earlier I might have ended up with an MP10 instead haha. I think I will juggle this in my head until I get the NX and sit down and play it. Gosh I wish I had money to buy them both.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 10:59 AM

Fred, just curious, but why the hurry?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 12:42 PM

Never had ANGAS -- Acute New Gear Acquisition Syndrome?

Apple coordinates their new product introductions so that people are camping out in front of the store to be the first to buy with clear introduction dates and ability to deliver immediately.

Some Japanese Digital Piano companies have different tactics such as not being specific, not naming prices, not knowing when products will be available, ignoring customer requests for more info, etc.

And we wonder why kids would rather play games than the the piano.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 02:39 PM

James - well it's a bit personal really. I ran into economic trouble and had to sell my previous piano. A few month later I ran into this amazing guitarist and we just clicked. We got all these people involved and they're all waiting for me to get back to composing. I only have a guitar and I don't write well with it. Made some quick decisions and moved to this country to build a heap of money, get the piano and back to writing. So well, thats why I hurry. I could go out and get just any cheap synth but, I don't know, it don't feel right when you have the option to get a great instrument you're going to live with day and night for months to come.
---
I was just thinking about that the other day theJourney, about how you turn interest and hype into sold products. Apples aproach is say absolutely nothing and let the product speak for itself at set keynotes then set often accurate releasedates. It sparks both trust and hype. Then there is this other way you often see smaller companies with less balls employ. You announce your products early to gain funds or analyze the market. It leads to interrest and to quench the masses' cravings for information you squeeze out press releases and odd commercials promising things you might not have time to deliver, all during production. A juggling act when someone starts throwing all kinds of things at you.

I'm a sucker for ANGAS, but I've learnt to deal with it. The solution works best accompanied by an empty wallet.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 02:55 PM

It does seem awfully strange that Roland has been seemingly quiet on the releases for both the RD-700NX and FP-7F. I remember when the RD-700GX came out, they made a big splash about it. It undoubtedly is because the difference between the SX to the GX was far larger than the difference between the GX and NX. Just seems odd though that we haven't seen more on the RD-700NX particularly.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 04:40 PM

Zachary, since you own the GXF, I would be very interested in any comparisons you could offer between it and your soon-to-arrive NX. At the top of my list is key feel and SN piano voice comparisons obviously, but I am also very interested in whether the MIDI playback issue has been fixed.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Zachary, since you own the GXF, I would be very interested in any comparisons you could offer between it and your soon-to-arrive NX. At the top of my list is key feel and SN piano voice comparisons obviously, but I am also very interested in whether the MIDI playback issue has been fixed.

I will definitely offer my feedback. If the RD-700NX isn't measurably better, I'll likely send it back. I've ordered the RPU-3 triple pedal unit for my RD-700GXF (and RD-700NX), which makes the RD-700GXF an even more solid package for a piano player like myself. So, if the RD-700NX doesn't offer enough of an advantage, I may send it back and hold on to the $2400 until something more revolutionary appears.

On a side note dewster, do you think Roland will come out with a successor to the RD-700 series for stage pianos anytime soon? Perhaps winter NAMM 2012?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
On a side note dewster, do you think Roland will come out with a successor to the RD-700 series for stage pianos anytime soon? Perhaps winter NAMM 2012?

I'm not plugged into the industry like Dr Popper, so your guess is probably better than mine.

But I'd think the NX might be replaced around then - the case design is getting a bit long in the tooth, and Roland will probably feel the need to simultaneously sex it up and dumb it down. Maybe by then they'll have PHA IV keys coupled to an UnnaturallyNATURAL piano engine or something.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 05:55 PM

We should have a naming contest or something to see who can come up with the marketing term for next evolutionary step in Roland SuperNATURAL technology. I have dibs on the following:

SuperNATURAL II (most likely)
DuperNATURAL
UnnaturallyNATURAL
ObscenelyNATURAL
HellaNATURAL
BrilliantNATURAL (for the Brits out there)
FreakilyNATURAL

SuperORGANIC
SuperNORMAL
SuperUSUAL
SuperREGULAR
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 06:19 PM

I Can't Believe It's Not Acoustic
My Other Piano is a V-Piano
Spielvergnügen: It's what makes a plastic piano a Roland
Doh! I coulda hadda V-Piano
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/12/10 10:54 PM

Haha dewster!! I love HellaNATURAL!
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 12:10 AM

I couldn't possibly comment ... wink
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 12:19 AM

I'd like it to be "UnadulteratedMegaSamples V1.0", with no next version of SN.

Greg.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 06:31 AM

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious piano sound!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 06:34 AM

Harmonic Imaging
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Harmonic Imaging

But, in in terms of SN evolution, wouldn't that be a step backwards? wink
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 10:29 AM

BSN: Beyond SuperNatural
SNR: SuperNatural Reloaded
HIW: Harmonic Imaging Wannabe
SNINLN: So Natural It's No Longer Natural
NIBUMT: No Improvement But Unbelievable Marketing Talk
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
[ I've ordered the RPU-3 triple pedal unit for my RD-700GXF (and RD-700NX), which makes the RD-700GXF an even more solid package for a piano player like myself.


That's interesting. I didn't realize that the triple pedal unit would work with the RD700GXF.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/13/10 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: mucci
BSN: Beyond SuperNatural

My inner adolescent likes this because it has "BS" in it.

Originally Posted By: mucci
SNR: SuperNatural Reloaded

My inner engineer likes this because the acronym means something audio-related - and the SF reference is a plus.

Originally Posted By: mucci
HIW: Harmonic Imaging Wannabe

Hmmm. I think perhaps it's time to resurrect your old user name.

Originally Posted By: mucci
SNINLN: So Natural It's No Longer Natural

Ha ha!

Originally Posted By: mucci
NIBUMT: No Improvement But Unbelievable Marketing Talk

Yes, but we're talking SN here, which is quite an improvement over old school DP BS. I really wonder what Roland has waiting in the wings.
Posted by: Scooby Hoo

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/14/10 12:02 AM



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Kawai James, if you steal this in 3-4 years to announce the next Kawai digital, don't blame me if your life slowly begins to unravel.
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/14/10 04:51 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: mucci
HIW: Harmonic Imaging Wannabe

Hmmm. I think perhaps it's time to resurrect your old user name.

Come on - I consider this funny! wink
Originally Posted By: dewster

Originally Posted By: mucci
NIBUMT: No Improvement But Unbelievable Marketing Talk

Yes, but we're talking SN here, which is quite an improvement over old school DP BS. I really wonder what Roland has waiting in the wings.

Yes, SN was a big improvement, but let's face it: Most DP brands can only reach minimal improvements from one DP generation to the next, but they have to claim a big step forward and therefore need a new name for it... I am convinced that the next Roland sound generation will be no exception from that rule.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/14/10 09:20 AM

Originally Posted By: mucci
Come on - I consider this funny! wink

Oh mucci, I was just kidding you - I should have used an emoticon to make that clear.

Originally Posted By: mucci
Yes, SN was a big improvement, but let's face it: Most DP brands can only reach minimal improvements from one DP generation to the next, but they have to claim a big step forward and therefore need a new name for it... I am convinced that the next Roland sound generation will be no exception from that rule.

Yes, I have a feeling that the next big Roland thing might be of a more incremental variety. But even if it's just something like more distinct APs to chose from I'd consider it a step up and not just talk. I guess we'll see.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/14/10 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
[ I've ordered the RPU-3 triple pedal unit for my RD-700GXF (and RD-700NX), which makes the RD-700GXF an even more solid package for a piano player like myself.


That's interesting. I didn't realize that the triple pedal unit would work with the RD700GXF.

Yeah, it works for all of the RD-700 series boards as well as the FP-7F.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/RPU-3/
Originally Posted By: dewster
[quote=mucci]
Yes, I have a feeling that the next big Roland thing might be of a more incremental variety. But even if it's just something like more distinct APs to chose from I'd consider it a step up and not just talk. I guess we'll see.


To be honest I'm not expecting a huge improvement in the SN piano sounds from the NX over my GXF, but I am expecting them to be at least a little bit better. However, the PHA III keys/action of the NX I am expecting to be a leap forward over the PHA II on my GXF. For me, the action, feel is the most important thing, and so far my experience with PHA III action (which has been quite a bit) has convinced that it is a leap forward of the PHA II. I'm not sure how Roland will improve the action much or the sounds for quite some time. The PHA III and SuperNATURAL sound engine is a remarkable combo.
Posted by: Pinipon

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/14/10 07:41 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
We should have a naming contest or something to see who can come up with the marketing term for next evolutionary step in Roland SuperNATURAL technology.


Just for fun, I'm thinking about something like
ATIA: All That I Am

do you catch?? grin wink
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/15/10 04:36 AM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
However, the PHA III keys/action of the NX I am expecting to be a leap forward over the PHA II on my GXF. For me, the action, feel is the most important thing, and so far my experience with PHA III action (which has been quite a bit) has convinced that it is a leap forward of the PHA II. I'm not sure how Roland will improve the action much or the sounds for quite some time. The PHA III and SuperNATURAL sound engine is a remarkable combo.


I have owned both PHA-II and III, at the same time and for several months. I don't think there's a significant difference...the III is certainly capable of the super-fast and authentic sounding repetition but in other respects it is not nicer...maybe slightly more percussive/quick feeling but that difference in my opinion is VERY slight. For what it's worth I preferred PHA-II marginally but can't tell you why; it could perhaps just have been down to the difference between two actions made at different times and assembled by different people...I think there's a tiny difference between every example of the same action for instance. And they all tend to perform differently based on their structural installation...stage piano v console v mini grand for instance.

I also don't think in a technical sense the SN pianos on NX will be any different or better than GX(F)...they may have a slightly different character (the HP-307 is SLIGHTLY different to the GX(F) for instance...but certainly not better. The change that is required, as Dewster mentions, is a choice of demonstrably DIFFERENT SN AP patches...they are all too similar, certainly nothing like the difference say between a Steinway AP and any other make you could mention...real choice in AP timbres using SN technology is what Roland should provide. Why they can't just rent a decent example of a Steinway, Bechstein, Bosie, Bluthner, Yamaha, Fazioli and apply SN processing to each is beyond me...that would offer genuine choice to the buyer.

For what it's worth I would be more attracted by the FP-7F than RD-NX...the RD needs a re-style...it is just too long and looks wrong in terms of its proportions.

Just my opinions!

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/15/10 07:09 AM

Well said Steve. wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/16/10 07:01 AM

So, did we ever come to any conclusions whether there were any difference between the V-Piano PHA III and the NX/HP307 PHA III? I seem to recall someone saying they differ.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 06:17 AM

I'm told a large box is at my place marked ROLAND ..... could only be ....
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 06:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I'm told a large box is at my place marked ROLAND ..... could only be ....


?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 06:29 AM

ROTFL!

Lucky boy!

James
x
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 06:36 AM

WOW now I'm REALLY excited !!!!!!
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 07:07 AM

LOL.. grin
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 09:06 AM


?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 10:38 AM

That is IT
The fake Stained glass legs did it for me !!!!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 11:08 AM

Hey, don't knock it man - that's dewster's dream machine!

It passes all the DPBSD tests too, you know... wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 11:33 AM

Hey, I'd take that Roland C-30 harpsichord in a second. And I'd actually buy one if the positive organ voice had stops of some sort.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
So, did we ever come to any conclusions whether there were any difference between the V-Piano PHA III and the NX/HP307 PHA III? I seem to recall someone saying they differ.


Well, I went to the music store the other day and spent some serious time in there. Those guys must hate me as many times as I go in there just to play and not buy anything. It's what I like to call research though. I played the V-Piano for a while and immediately played the RD-700GX (w/out the SN upgrade). As weird as it sounds, I think I liked the PHAII action of the GX about as much as the V-Piano's PHA III, and I think I like the sound of my GXF better than the V-Piano as well. This disturbed me for two reasons. First, I just pre-ordered a $2400 RD-700NX, and I'm beginning to ask myself is the NX really going to be a $2400 justifiable upgrade to my GXF? Second, for a current owner of the GXF, the NX is likely not going to be necessary, as I think Roland will role out the RD-700 series replacement probably around Winter NAMM 2012, which I think would be a more substantial upgrade to my RD-700GXF. I left the store kind of bummed in that I'm really having second thoughts about the NX, but at the same time, I was excited that I may not be spending $2400 for a marginal upgrade, and after playing the CP1/CP5, S90XS, Korg (forget the model), Yamaha P155, Roland V-Piano, Nord Piano, I'm convinced the RD-700GXF can hold its own against any DP for what I need it for, especially with the addition of the RPU-3 pedal I ordered. It sounds fantastic, plays fantastic, and it's already been paid for! Guess I have probably already made up my mind on what to do with the NX.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 05:04 PM

.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 05:08 PM

Dave, did you go ahead and buy the Nord Piano? I went to the Nord website and listened to their demos and their sounds are incredible.

As for cutting though with the RD-700GX in a live mix, I've found the Grand Piano 3 with lid all the way open and messing with my EQ wo be really potent cutting through. I just gigged this past Friday playing/singing with a guitar player playing stuff from Miles Davis to James Taylor and my piano was cutting through nicely. Could be the room, system, etc. So many variables unfortunately.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Had the 700GX, nice board for recording, didn't cut through live and too heavy for what it was.

Maybe the new "sound focus" doodad on the NX could help with this issue?

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Waiting to see if a FP-4F materializes at NAMM in Jan. I would probably jump on that.

If they do and it has SN pianos and PHAIII we probably would too - non-ivory feel would be a plus. The inability of the FP-7F to do a proper WAV recording is somewhat bumming me out. Who needs a stupid looper?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 05:32 PM

PianoZac, given that you already own an RD-700GXF, I would say that the NX upgrade is rather expensive. However, assuming you are able to sell the GXF for around $2000, the effective $400 NX upgrade actually looks like a pretty good deal. If I was in your position and wanted to remain on the cutting-edge, I'd probably do exactly the same thing - don't worry, you made the right choice. wink

I'm interested to hear your opinions of the Nord Piano though. You mentioned that the online demos are incredible, but what were your impressions playing the board first hand?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
PianoZac, given that you already own an RD-700GXF, I would say that the NX upgrade is rather expensive. However, assuming you are able to sell the GXF for around $2000, the effective $400 NX upgrade actually looks like a pretty good deal. If I was in your position and wanted to remain on the cutting-edge, I'd probably do exactly the same thing - don't worry, you made the right choice. wink

I'm interested to hear your opinions of the Nord Piano though. You mentioned that the online demos are incredible, but what were your impressions playing the board first hand?

Cheers,
James
x


Thanks Kawai James for encouraging words. I've got a really good buddy who reps for Roland, and he told me, the best I can probably get from my RD-700GXF is about $1500-$1700. With the NX rolling out, the resale value will naturally take a hit.

As for the Nord Piano, I found the sounds to be marvelous, but the action to be less than desired. That, like everything is a very personal thing though. I'm so used to the action of the Rolands, which I feel to be very authentic, the Nord felt more like my old Yamaha P-80, which coming from the PHA II Ivory keys and action was like taking a step back in feel. It was a bit of an odd thing, to have such authentic sounding pianos, with a unauthentic feeling action. Again, this is my opinion. I'm not quite in a position to have a real piano, so action is something that is very important to me. The RD-700GXF, IMHO, will be able to hold it's own for a while yet.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
First, I just pre-ordered a $2400 RD-700NX, and I'm beginning to ask myself is the NX really going to be a $2400 justifiable upgrade to my GXF?


I would say, no, not justifiable. At this point I would recommend enjoying the RD700GXF and wait for the next significant upgrade.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/18/10 08:02 PM

.
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/19/10 04:40 AM

I wish metronome were implemented in this new Rd700!

It's clearly a lack in previous version, in fact a metronome patch can be downloaded from Roland download web page.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/19/10 03:47 PM

I didn't think the action of the Nord Piano was all that bad, but I have to admit that I only tried it without any sound (just tapping the keybed). Could be that there is a mismatch between the action and the sound you produce with it, don't know...
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/20/10 12:47 PM

Nord Piano action - taken in isolation, I think it is absolutely fine. I was not expecting anything very nice since it is made by Fatar (although modified according to Nord's specification)...I have had serious problems with Fatar actions in Kurzweil pianos some years ago. But it really is ok...the relationship between the keys and the resulting tone/timbre changes is very good actually. Very dynamic in fact. I would say that if the Nord tick lots of boxes in other respects the action should not really dissuade anyone from going for it.

But (there's always a but), the Nord action is some way short of the Roland PHA II or III. When playing the Roland I can feel mechanics in there...the assembly is working away at reproducing certain elements of the feel and sensations of a grand piano action...I'm certainly not saying it succeeds on every level but there is an obvious and at least partially successful attempt at making it piano like. The Yamaha GH3 is also superior to the Nord for some of the same reasons in my opinion. No doubt the Kawai actions are also significantly better than the Nord.

Steve
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/20/10 02:08 PM

Still wondering when Roland is going to release the manual for the NX.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 12:11 AM

Is the RD action a graded action or just weighted? The FP seems to use a progressive action but that isn't indicated in the RD description.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 12:32 AM

Hideki, it's graded.

I believe the only stage pianos with ungraded actions are the CP-1, CP-5, and possibly the older Yamaha S90 range.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hideki, it's graded.

I believe the only stage pianos with ungraded actions are the CP-1, CP-5, and possibly the older Yamaha S90 range.

Cheers,
James
x


I think the SV1 is just weighted too. Not totally sure on that.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 02:43 PM

The SV-1 is equipped with Korg's finest graded-hammer action (RH3) keyboard on both the 73-key and 88-key versions.

That's from the Korg website. I've been still thinking about an SV1-73. Not that it matters but I wish they would have put the felt (usually red) between the chassis and the keys. But they don't. Not a big deal, plus I could probably open it up and intall it myself (custom jobs). I just think it adds a little more elegance and quality look to the board. Plus it does serve as a cushion for the keys when they set back into rest postion. I'm still really contemplating getting one because of the sounds and the portability.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 02:49 PM

.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
The SV-1 is equipped with Korg's finest graded-hammer action (RH3) keyboard on both the 73-key and 88-key versions.

That's from the Korg website. I've been still thinking about an SV1-73. Not that it matters but I wish they would have put the felt (usually red) between the chassis and the keys. But they don't. Not a big deal, plus I could probably open it up and intall it myself (custom jobs). I just think it adds a little more elegance and quality look to the board. Plus it does serve as a cushion for the keys when they set back into rest postion. I'm still really contemplating getting one because of the sounds and the portability.


Oh cool. I did play it recently and it felt light all across the board to me. The design and EP sounds are great.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/21/10 05:25 PM

FYI, "keyfix2000" over at Roland Clan reports the following:

The German Keyboards magazine has published a preview of the new RD-700NX.
The facts are:
V-Piano-like keybed action
3 different SuperNatural Grand Pianos: CONCERT, STUDIO, BRILLIANT
same SN-Epianos as RD-700GX :-(
same virtual tone wheel organs
300 preset and 100 user Live Sets (=setups), no tone section anymore ?
900 ROM-samples instead of 532 Tones
simple USB audio recording
Sound Focus function depends on sound playing: compressor, enhancer, booster
no more Audio Key function
no more Arpeggio
no more SRX-expansion boards


I believe http://www1.keyboards.de/ is the site, as they list the NX under "Previews". Anyone here subscribe to this and can dish further? I wonder if they actually touched one.

Comments from GX/GXF owners?

(I see the Kawai MP6 is in there too.)
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 03:31 AM

Maybe Audio Key function became pointless, since it can now read and write in wav format directly.
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 06:24 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster

I believe http://www1.keyboards.de/ is the site, as they list the NX under "Previews". Anyone here subscribe to this and can dish further? I wonder if they actually touched one.

Comments from GX/GXF owners?

(I see the Kawai MP6 is in there too.)


I'm interested in reading that review! There is virtually nothing about the MP6 on the internet in any other language other than German. I'm starting to think that Japanese prefer the German language to English.. sleep
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 06:41 AM

Actually, that's true! I've been living in Japan for 9 years, and I know that many japanese people tend to be more in favor of Europe (and specificially Germany) than the US, at least regarding culture and music history e.g. piano.
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 06:54 AM

Originally Posted By: mucci
Actually, that's true! I've been living in Japan for 9 years, and I know that many japanese people tend to be more in favor of Europe (and specificially Germany) than the US, at least regarding culture and music history e.g. piano.


Maybe you could buy that magazine and translate a review for us?? <hint> <hint> whistle
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 06:58 AM

Well, let's see...
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 07:02 AM

Originally Posted By: mucci
I've been living in Japan for 9 years...


You kept that quiet mucci! wink

日本語を読めますか?

James
x
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 07:06 AM

@James: A little bit, but it's quite a while so I'm not that good!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster


Comments from GX/GXF owners?

(I see the Kawai MP6 is in there too.)

The more I think about it, the more I may in fact cancel my order, and hold on to my GXF for a while. Fact is, I'm no longer convinced that the NX is going to be $2400 better than my GXF, and what you posted here dewster further confirms this. I'd rather save the $2400 and wait another year, or wait until I can actually play one, then decide. I'd hate to have spent $2400 on a DP that is marginally better than the GXF I currently have, then be leap frogged in a year with Roland's next best toy. Patience is a virtue-I should practice that more often!!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 03:25 PM

Anyone with a GXF want to comment specifically on these things reportedly new to the NX:

- 3 different SuperNatural Grand Pianos: CONCERT, STUDIO, BRILLIANT
- no tone section anymore ?
- 900 ROM-samples instead of 532 Tones

Does the first mean we will get fundamentally different SN AP pianos (Yamaha, Steinway, etc.)?

What are the implications of the second and third? Is this a good thing or does it seem like they are removing something useful (like the arpeggiator)?
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 03:38 PM

Well, there are three SN grands on HP-307 that could possibly be described as Concert, Studio, Brilliant. Certainly one of them is brighter. But to my ears they are essentially the same piano. However, I think GX(F) has a tonally different piano (SN Grand 1) which (I'm over simplifying this) sounds to me rather like an SN'd Expressive Grand. Not my cup of tea at all though. On the GX(F) I find 2 and 4 very similar indeed although I prefer 4. 3 is brighter (more brilliant you could say!) but tonally very related to 2 and 4. I think that SN 2, 3 and 4 are derivatives of the original Superior Grand to some degree. Likewise these three are the same as or very very similar to the three SN grands on the HP-307. So perversely it could be that there is more choice on GX(F) than NX. We're not going to know until people on here get their hands on 'em of course...maybe next month?

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/22/10 11:47 PM

Yes Essbrace, you are totally right with your findings. Ultimately all of the non-SN pianos that came with the GX (Expressive, Superior, Ultimate Grands) are somehow (with the SN piano kit/ GXF) SN'd with (SN Grand piano 1, Grand piano 2, Grand piano3, respectively). SN Grand piano 4 I haven't quite figured out, maybe it is the RD600 grand that was SN'd. Note I mentioned SN Grand piano variants and not names like SN02 (which is Clear Grand, a variation of SN Grand piano 1). Very important because Roland took the 4 different SN Grand Pianos (from the SN AP piano kit) and made variations of them, to have 17 "different piano sounds".

I have a feeling that the GX(F) is probably the better of the two between the NX and GX(F). If you own an GX(F) like me, I really don't think the new PHIII action is enough to justify a $2,400.00 "upgrade". I have tweaked my SN Ep's to be good enough to live with and I instantly loved the SN AP's, so I came to the conclusion....save my money and stick it out with my GX(F). Maybe I'll really upgrade it with the RPU 3 pedal. Just gotta wait for that to be released.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/23/10 11:53 AM

I think that's very wise...the time to re-evaluate the Roland in my opinion is when they release a really new product (RD-800 say). I could be wrong, it could be that the NX has tonally quite different piano patches and then it could well be the right choice for some current GX owners. Time will tell.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/24/10 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Rhodie73


I have a feeling that the GX(F) is probably the better of the two between the NX and GX(F). If you own an GX(F) like me, I really don't think the new PHIII action is enough to justify a $2,400.00 "upgrade". I have tweaked my SN Ep's to be good enough to live with and I instantly loved the SN AP's, so I came to the conclusion....save my money and stick it out with my GX(F). Maybe I'll really upgrade it with the RPU 3 pedal. Just gotta wait for that to be released.

Yeah, I've decided to cancel my NX order and just hang on to my GXF until Roland replaces the RD-700 series with something new altogether. I have the RPU-3 on back order, which I'm quite excited about!
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I think that's very wise...the time to re-evaluate the Roland in my opinion is when they release a really new product (RD-800 say). I could be wrong, it could be that the NX has tonally quite different piano patches and then it could well be the right choice for some current GX owners. Time will tell.

Totally agree. I suffered from the 'Gotta have the latest tech now' syndrome, but once reality set in, and I spent more and more time playing Roland PHA III action pianos back and forth with my GXF, and the fact is, the NX isn't worth the $2400. I'm sure I'd like it better than my GXF-bigger screen, better action (possibly), more SN piano sounds-but not $2400 worth.
Posted by: pianodilemma

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/24/10 05:12 PM

I just wanted to chime in here and say that the RD-700GX with the Supernatural piano expansion is absolutely fantastic for me. I somewhat wish I could've waited for the RD-700NX, but waiting forever without a stage piano forced me to buy once I saw the reviews on the SN pianos. I can't see myself upgrading for an extra sensor that gets me faster/easier repetition when I have virtually all of the playability that I need, so I really think this is it for a while. No regrets at all, and no real desire to "upgrade" other than my SN board.

Roland and Kawai seem to be at the top of their game product-wise with the new crop of stage/digital pianos at the moment. I would have no hesitation to recommend either the RD-700NX or the MP-10 if the CA-93 is anything like the MP-10.

These artificial pianos are getting pretty good these days, I must say.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/24/10 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: pianodilemma
No regrets at all, and no real desire to "upgrade" other than my SN board.

That's encouraging!

Originally Posted By: pianodilemma
Roland and Kawai seem to be at the top of their game product-wise with the new crop of stage/digital pianos at the moment.

Roland definitely. But Kawai and Yamaha are both playing the very short, highly processed loop sample game that I personally feel is a step backward in sampling technology.

Kawai keys may be really nice, but I never see any in the stores near me to try them out. And that sound issue pretty much puts the kibosh on me caring about their keys.

I'm primarily a sound guy, but key feel is very important to my wife, so we're always on the lookout for something that will satisfy us both.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/24/10 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Kawai keys may be really nice, but I never see any in the stores near me to try them out.


I've sent you a PM with a link to a gmap of Kawai dealers in NJ.

Quote:
And that sound issue pretty much puts the kibosh on me caring about their keys.


I don't believe there is a sound issue with Kawai instruments, however I'm a player, not an engineer.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 05:13 AM

I'm not a kawai employee, just a fellow of DPs... I want to say that I don't like strong sentences "this is better than any others". It sounds childish (and pointless) to me.




Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 05:24 AM

Qbert, I fully agree! Same with the opposite, bashing a specific brand for whatever reason. It also sounds *what you said*.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Qbert
I'm not a kawai employee, just a fellow of DPs... I want to say that I don't like strong sentences "this is better than any others". It sounds childish (and pointless) to me.

Technically, Roland SN is the most advanced thing out there in hardware DPs. That's not my opinion, it's the result of many, many hours of testing.

Originally Posted By: mucci
Same with the opposite, bashing a specific brand for whatever reason.

I'm not "bashing" Kawai and Yamaha for their short loop samples. I'm just pointing out that they are too short, even shorter than what I've seen in older DPs. Which is likely one of the main reasons why so many people over on the CA93/CA63 custom settings thread are finding that layering two pianos improves the sound. mucci, even you layer Pianoteq on top of your CA63.

I want good sound from my DP without having to resort to such things.
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 09:57 AM

@dewster
I like your test and appreciate the time you dedicate to this. I find them interesting but I can't consider them in absolute way. While your sentences pretend to derive from an absolute truth!
Sorry, it sounds so to me at least!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 10:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Qbert
While your sentences pretend to derive from an absolute truth!

Loop times are easy to measure. There are fancier methods, but stereo VU meters and a stopwatch are all you need.

Short loops by very definition cannot realistically simulate multiple strings playing in unison (unless you play multiple, slightly detuned copies of the loop).

Looping is a huge turn-off for me because I've had the opportunity to hear so many otherwise fine piano sample sets butchered by it.
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
I'm not "bashing" Kawai and Yamaha for their short loop samples... Which is likely one of the main reasons why so many people over on the CA93/CA63 custom settings thread are finding that layering two pianos improves the sound.

Well, the absolute main reason for using dual voice presets is the unique high-amplitude attack transient with improved dynamics (from pianissimo to fortissimo) which can be developed this way, i.e. it's all about generating new piano timbres, which can even sound like a completely different instrument / sampleset! As you know, the attack transient primarily determines human recognition of a specific piano timbre. Improved dynamics of the much lower-amplitude decay transient is a welcome positive side-effect, but not as spectacular. Thanks anyway. smile

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1489257.html#Post1489257
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 01:04 PM

You might be totally correct from a technological standpoint but despite all the technology, many piano/keyboard players just don't like the resulting sound. I dumped my G8 with ARX2 because I could not stand the acoustic pianos and ARX2 EPs paled in comparison to the CP1. Of course, I just use my ears and am sure someone could show me that from a technological standpoint I am choosing the less advanced technology.

I am trying to decided between the new NX and the MP10. I went to GC yesterday to revist Rolands with the the GXF. To be honest, I didn't hear anything that made me want to reconsider Roland again.
Originally Posted By: dewster
Technically, Roland SN is the most advanced thing out there in hardware DPs. That's not my opinion, it's the result of many, many hours of testing.


I want good sound from my DP without having to resort to such things.

Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I just use my ears

Hear, hear! That's just what I do too.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 04:12 PM

Didn't know you already had a GXF Zac. I don't blame you for not wanting a $2400 upgrade. Definitely not worth it.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 05:49 PM

My own concern about the RD700NX is that you may be sacrificing quite a lot for the better action. No SRX slots - OK, these cards aren't stellar but they represent pretty good value for expanding the RD's sound palette. But more worryingly, no "Int/Ext" switch on the four zone sliders and buttons. I hope I'm wrong, but that suggests the RD's capabilities as a MIDI controller may have been "dumbed down" a bit. Won't know until we see the manual, of course. And no second MFX control by the look of it, either. As it stands, the action would have to be spectacularly better and the Supernatural EPs vastly improved for the NX to interest me, and that's even before I add an SN card to my GX.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I just use my ears

Hear, hear! That's just what I do too.

I use my ears too, but they get a huge assist from my eyes. You guys should try it sometime before knocking it.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
You might be totally correct from a technological standpoint but despite all the technology, many piano/keyboard players just don't like the resulting sound.

That is a completely different issue, and one that I respect.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I've sent you a PM with a link to a gmap of Kawai dealers in NJ.

Thanks James. I'll definitely check out Kawai offerings as soon as they reduce or eliminate looping.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/25/10 08:11 PM

No problem, pleasure to help. wink

Originally Posted By: dewster
I'll definitely check out Kawai offerings as soon as they reduce or eliminate looping.


Yes, I had a feeling you might say that. But, I'd still be very interested to hear your wife's opinion of Kawai's current digital pianos - as a piano player, indeed a piano teacher, I'm sure she would appreciate Kawai's realistic keyboard action technology.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: chick corea

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/26/10 01:21 AM

hI ...to much to read.


Hows does the RD700NX compares to the V-piano
action?? some one has actually made the comparision?

I want one for my live performances.
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/26/10 03:53 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I just use my ears

Hear, hear! That's just what I do too.

I use my ears too, but they get a huge assist from my eyes. You guys should try it sometime before knocking it.

During my daily piano playing, my ears are key and then I mainly need my eyes for sight-reading only (when not improvising).
Posted by: mucci

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/26/10 05:55 AM

Yes, right! And there is even more like in which location are you playing.

Yesterday I tried to somehow "enrich" the sound of our 12 year old Yamaha CLP at our church. I connected my Pianoteq Play (which I regularly use at home to beef up my CA63 piano sound) to the line-in of the piano and then played a little through the internal speakers: Definitely an improvement. But the church needs some extra power through our mixer and big speakers (its not a traditional church BTW, it's much more like a small concert hall but without a good acoustic), so I amped up the sound through the big loudspeakers. It sounded awful. I tried several settings and different EQ, reverb, whatever, but to no avail. Eventually I switched the Pianoteq sound off and everything was fine again. So I gave up. It seems like a realistic sound is not always fine for all situations, in this specific hall the very old internal Yamaha sound was just good enough, even better than a more realistic DP sound.
Posted by: Tuxic

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 08:30 AM

For the Dutch speaking Forum members. RD-700 NX Manual is online:
http://www.rolandce.com/nl/nl/producten/pianos/stage-pianos/rd-700nx/
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Tuxic
For the Dutch speaking Forum members. RD-700 NX Manual is online:
http://www.rolandce.com/nl/nl/producten/pianos/stage-pianos/rd-700nx/

Thanks! I looked through it but couldn't find any trace of a voice list. Must be rather preliminary.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 10:05 AM

Manual is online at Roland.com
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 10:35 AM

Ah yes:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?PRODUCT=RD-700NX

Owner's Manual, Data List, and MIDI Implementation.

Thanks Dr P!
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 10:43 AM

That's quite an interesting tone list inside the Data List.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 11:35 AM

The question is: how many of those sounds have Supernatural quality and how many are next to unusable?
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:05 PM

Itseems as though my fear about MIDI control etc being dumbed down was groundless. That only leaves the lack of SRX slots as a "mark down" but since these cards are pretty limited, it's not a biggie - and the internal tone list has been substantially expanded.

However, as others have noted here, if you're already an GXF owner, you may still be wiser holding on for the next model.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
The question is: how many of those sounds have Supernatural quality and how many are next to unusable?

I would bet that all of the APs and EPs in the "Tone List" are SN.

The "Live Set List" is just layered presets from the "Tone List" correct?

It doesn't seem like there is anything keeping the NX from layering up to 4 pianos - like a turbocharged version of what's going on over the Kawai custom settings thread.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
That only leaves the lack of SRX slots as a "mark down" but since these cards are pretty limited, it's not a biggie.

Yeah, I'm kind of glad the SRX slot is gone, otherwise I might have been tempted to fork over serious bux for 32-64MB of 10 year old samples.

IMO the SN AP card is the only reason for SRX expansion in the GX.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:42 PM

This morning after I had done various scale work, ii-V-I exersices, I decided to play some classical for technique, was playing Rondo alla Turca presto and there were a few notes my GXF was unable to respond to. I wonder if the PHA III action would assist in playing fast tempos. I've often heard the PHA III's 3rd sensor helps in playing repetitive notes quickly, so I'll be anxious to see how that pans out on the NX.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
IMO the SN AP card is the only reason for SRX expansion in the GX.


Actually, the "Complete Orchestra SRX-06" isn't bad. Not Kurzweil quality but I've built some nice orchestral composite sounds with it. I've left it in my GX after adding the SN card, but the SRX07 Complete Keys will go to the Bay, I think.
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Aidan
That only leaves the lack of SRX slots as a "mark down" but since these cards are pretty limited, it's not a biggie.

Yeah, I'm kind of glad the SRX slot is gone, otherwise I might have been tempted to fork over serious bux for 32-64MB of 10 year old samples.

IMO the SN AP card is the only reason for SRX expansion in the GX.


And maybe what might have offered owners of the NX a future SN2 upgrade??
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Rimmer

And maybe what might have offered owners of the NX a future SN2 upgrade??

I'm inclined to believe that Roland doesn't have an SN2 in the pipeline. SN is it for a while, and that's perfectly fine with me. The RD-700NX with PHA III Ivory Feel and SN sound engine is going to be holding its own for a while. I'm hoping Roland releases an RD-800 series...of course what could be improved upon the SN sound engine and PHA III action anytime soon?
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: Rimmer

And maybe what might have offered owners of the NX a future SN2 upgrade??

I'm inclined to believe that Roland doesn't have an SN2 in the pipeline. SN is it for a while, and that's perfectly fine with me. The RD-700NX with PHA III Ivory Feel and SN sound engine is going to be holding its own for a while. I'm hoping Roland releases an RD-800 series...of course what could be improved upon the SN sound engine and PHA III action anytime soon?


Sure. Those 300 and 700 numbers are old.. eek
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/28/10 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I'm hoping Roland releases an RD-800 series...of course what could be improved upon the SN sound engine and PHA III action anytime soon?



The NX is all your going to get from Roland for quite some time ...
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Rimmer

And maybe what might have offered owners of the NX a future SN2 upgrade??


I would like to hope that lack of expansion board will be compensated with software SN upgrade, as Clavia does!

grin

.... just a dream!
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 05:31 AM

Keep on dreaming ...(they rather sell you a brand new RD700ZX with SN2 engine and PHAIII+ ; software upgrades are free so not interesting to the manufacturer).
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 07:55 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Keep on dreaming ...


For the moment, V-Piano upgrade ("evolution") is not a dream... it's real
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 08:18 AM

Yes, but the V-Piano is not comparable to the rest of the range of products. I don't think they made it to get rich on selling lots of them, but more as a technological statement of what's possible at this time and as a model to use for further product development. Technology then trickles down to the mass products, like the SN implementation did. In other words - V-piano is what OASYS was for Korg; sort of a development platform and advertising model. They don't have to earn their income by this particular product, so getting the software updates to these instruments is not being blocked by marketing decisions as with the 'regular' instrument range.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 08:39 AM

I doubt the Roland anticipated the VPiano being as dismal of a market failure as it has been.
Certainly they expected to sell more than they have.
I expect that Yamaha also built the Avantgrand to sell and from what I can tell, although heavily discounted, they are selling.
The same store models of the VPianos are still languishing in shops and 4/4 that I have asked point blank have admitted to having sold a grand total of: ZERO.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 09:03 AM

No doubt the reception the V piano got was disappointing for Roland however I wouldn't expect them to abandon to concept but rather it will be developed further.
Posted by: dje31

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 09:25 AM

Is there a way to merge whatever magic they do with SN-tech with the non-sampling modeling-on-the-fly voodoo of the V-Piano (Light)? If so, that's probably what the RD-something-other-than-700 will become, or be based upon.

They could take the models of the SN palette, and give the ability to tweak the individual elements of what makes it. Make it lighter, of course, and cheaper (than the V-Piano), though it'll probably stay in the 2500-3000 US range.

And move or remove that danged mod stick!
Posted by: motif

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 09:54 AM

so is the new GX upgrade (or cheating by roland) comparable to yamaha piano sounds and up to that level??? e.g. to CP-5 ????
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 10:07 AM

Funnily enough, after holding fire for some time I finally sprang for an SN card to (F) my GX. Disclosure: I also own a CP5.

Good news: The responsiveness of the SN voices is much better than the original APs. You can now play almost as quietly on the Roland as you can on the CP action.

Bad news: The SN voices sound bland and characterless to me. Worse, there is a nasty metallic edge which exhibits itself when these voices are pushed. Also, the velocity response appears uneven and these metallic "pings" can appear all to easily in runs.

To be honest, I thought this might be the upgrade which would decide me to sell the CP5, as I prefer the slightly heavier action on the Roland, as well as the escapement simulation. In fact, if anything, it may have turned my thoughts the other way...
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 10:36 AM

Aidan -

This metallic twang that occurs at too low a velocity in a couple of clusters of notes in the mid-range...SN Grand Piano 4 exhibits this behaviour less than the others and to reduce it I increased the key touch offset to medium + 5-8 ish...just short of heavy - values. This is a decent compromise in my opinion. But I agree it is a characteristic of the SN pianos. What the SN does have, and what is totally unmatched by the others, is a natural, organic sounding decay...no other hardware DP even comes close in this respect. I also think that piano players will feel more connected to the RD's graded action with escapement more than the much lighter CP1/5 non-graded. On a personal level, this wouldn't matter to me but then I don't call myself a piano player...maybe one day!

Steve
Posted by: motif

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan

Bad news: The SN voices sound bland and characterless to me. Worse, there is a nasty metallic edge which exhibits itself when these voices are pushed. Also, the velocity response appears uneven and these metallic "pings" can appear all to easily in runs.


another words you're not sure if it's worth the money. Those BAD news are rather very bad to me...characterless? After few disappointments from roland I just don't believe anymore they did it right while they should do it right in the first place, with GX .
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 11:08 AM

Steve, yeah I knew there'd been quite a bit of praise around SN4 so I went there almost immediately but to these ears, it sounded too much like a rock voicing for cutting through bands on stage. Not a tone I'd use for the jazz/new age stuff which is my principle territory. It reminded me of a very aggressively-voiced Steinway D I came across about 18 months ago - it was potentially a dream of an instrument but it took the top of your head off every time you got about mf.

I did find myself going for heavier response curves than I generally used on the non-SN voices before which certainly helped.

As for the CP5, I was very sceptical about its lack of grading until I tried one in the flesh, as it were. As a regular practice instrument, the relative lightness of the keys may have implications (hence my recent thread on the subject here) but as a control surface (and speaking as a classically-trained pianist), I still find it's about the most expressive DP I've played to date.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 11:32 AM

@Aiden; could it be a mismatch between the GX keybed (PHA-II) and the SN sound engine.

In other words ; could it be that instruments that are factory loaded with the SN implementation, like the Rd700NX and Fp7F, have a more natural match between the keys you play and the sound you produce and without the twang that you so easily reproduce on the GX board with SN expansion ? The GX was made in pre-SN times after al; and maybe (just maybe) the way you play SN on the new instruments doesn't produce the artifacts you mentioned. As a potential FP7F buyer - if it's not Kawai - I would also be interested if that is the case...
Posted by: motif

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
@Aiden; could it be a mismatch between the GX keybed (PHA-II) and the SN sound engine.

In other words ; could it be that instruments that are factory loaded with the SN implementation, like the Rd700NX and Fp7F, have a more natural match between the keys you play and the sound you produce and without the twang that you so easily reproduce on the GX board with SN expansion ? The GX was made in pre-SN times after al; and maybe (just maybe) the way you play SN on the new instruments doesn't produce the artifacts you mentioned.


what??? crazy GX was not made before SN, in fact it came with SN piano and EP. NX is nothing else like factory made update which user csn do to GX at home.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 12:02 PM

JFP, I think the only answer to that is "wait and see". But the card was really designed with the GX primarily in mind (probably less so the SX), so it's strange that this hasn't been thought out.

I've ramped up the touch response, as Steve suggested, but on SN01. This seems to have brought it under control somewhat. Maybe I need a few more days to get used to the slightly more aggressive sound.

BTW, Steve, have you noticed that the SN voices seem to have noticeably less gain on them than the on-board ones?
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 12:35 PM

OK, I just did an extremely rough and ready recording of the first four SN piano voices. In the first I'm trying to demonstrate how that metallic edge suddenly appears. Apologies for the pisspoor playing.

Supernatural Pianos Test
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 01:13 PM

Aidan, your playing is not pisspoor!

I can hear it (slightly too prominent metallic sound on certain notes) because I'm tuned into the sound you are describing. I suspect many others would not really identify any particular issues at all. In living with these instruments we become hyper-sensitive to their little foibles I suppose.

I think that SN Piano 1 is too bright and although it is probably the most characterful SN piano on the GX(F) I hear textures that I just don't like very much. I disagree about SN 4 being a rock piano...to my ears it is the most mellow (marginally more so than SN 2) of the SN pianos. I think it is a beautifully balanced piano but I don't play jazz and your requirements might be very different. Jazz players often seem to like Yamaha.

When you say the SN pianos lack gain...do you mean dynamic range, ie, difference between softest and loudest? This is not an issue I have noticed.

JFP makes a sensible remark about the matching of keys to tone generator but my HP-307 also exhibited similar traits, perhaps slightly less so but there nonetheless. I've just sold the HP and for a few minutes I left the buyers to play with it whilst I sat in another room. I have to say the Roland SN sound on the HP-307 was uncannily right - just as if a small grand was playing in the house.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: blueston

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 01:50 PM

Piss Poor? Aidan, can you teach me how to play "piss poor" like you do? I would really enjoy it.

Anyway, thanks for those demos. Really interesting to me as I am considering getting this SN upgrade in the next couple months. All in all the SN sounds sounded great, although a couple of the accented notes did bother me a little bit in the way their brightness/character sounded.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: motif


what??? crazy GX was not made before SN, in fact it came with SN piano and EP. NX is nothing else like factory made update which user csn do to GX at home.

This is not correct. The GX was out before Roland released any of their SN piano sounds. The GX was loaded with SN EP sounds, but not acoustic piano sounds. The NX has more SN sounds, is made with the SN sound engine from the start, and has the PHA III action. I think the NX is going to be a monster DP for piano players. If that is it from Roland for a while, I'll probably upgrade to that at a later date. I had preordered one, but decided to cancel my order and keep my GXF for the time being until I get to sit down and spend some time with the NX.

On a side note, of all the digital pianos I've played, my GXF is the closest in sound, decay, response, playability, etc. than anything else I've tried, and I expect the NX to be even better. I was very impressed with the addition of the SN upgrade, and would highly recommend anyone with a GX to buy it. It's worth every penny.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I think it is a beautifully balanced piano but I don't play jazz and your requirements might be very different. Jazz players often seem to like Yamaha.

Well I play almost entirely out of the Real Books and American Songbooks, and my GXF is wonderful playing jazz. I think the idea that Yamaha's are better than Roland, Kawai, Korg, Kurzweil, etc is overblown really. It comes down to each individual piano player, and what they feel and how they hear. I much preferred my GX pre SN upgrade to my old CP300, and I much prefer my GXF over the CP1/CP5. It's all way too personal to give sweeping generalizations about which is best for what. Thankfully, when you're talking about DPs in the class of the RD-700GXF/NX/V-Piano, CP1/5, etc, they're all so good at what they're intended for, in the end it comes down to personal preference. Just my {twocents}

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
When you say the SN pianos lack gain...do you mean dynamic range, ie, difference between softest and loudest? This is not an issue I have noticed.

Nor with myself. The SN upgrade dramatically improves the overall acoustic piano experience with the GX, which was already a great DP. I'd highly encourage anyone with a GX considering the SN upgrade to go forward with it.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 02:06 PM

@Steve; you sold your HP-307 ?! Why , if I may ask ? Not happy with it ? Would be interesting info for potential buyers...
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
OK, I just did an extremely rough and ready recording of the first four SN piano voices. In the first I'm trying to demonstrate how that metallic edge suddenly appears. Apologies for the pisspoor playing.

Supernatural Pianos Test


Lovely performance. You should be proud of yourself.

The piano sounds very nice but it does have it's sharp edge when you thump the keys which sounds slightly digitally. How did you record it?? Sorry if I missed that...

Every time I hear the SN, it sounds sooo close to a acoustic piano to me that i'm quite floored. I'm really looking forward to trying the FP7F at the moment..

Regards, Rimmer
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
OK, I just did an extremely rough and ready recording of the first four SN piano voices. In the first I'm trying to demonstrate how that metallic edge suddenly appears. Apologies for the pisspoor playing.

Supernatural Pianos Test

Great playing Aidan. I liked the improv on 'All The Things You Are'. Nice thumb
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 03:04 PM

JFP -

There are three main interests I have; the piano, wristwatches and old cars. All are expensive and jostle for attention in my tiny little mind! An old car has caught my eye and the HP has gone to partly finance it. I now just use my Nord Piano...I sold the RD-700 too. This all coincided with a reorganisation at home and the HP really did find itself surplus to requirements. Frankly, I only had it because it was a convenient way to use up the credit note I had as a result of returning my V-Piano. I also have an old Roland RD-1000 tucked up under the bed...and this I shall keep forever.

I've owned so many pianos (all digital) and don't really feel particularly allied to any one make. I've owned Yamahas, Rolands, Kurzweils, Korg, Kawai, Technics, General Music and now the Nord.

I like the Nord very much on a subjective level and really like that fact in can be updated. But I will carry on saying that Roland SN is technically the best piano sound engine out there in a stand-alone DP...by quite some margin. Whether one likes it on a subjective level (I do) is another matter of course.

For the future I have my eye on an Avant Grand N3 but don't currently have the funds or space. I'm not hugely keen on the sound of an AG when it's recorded. In this respect I think it is quite average actually but as a playing experience it is without equal...far and away the closest thing to an acoustic piano substitute. I also like the idea of the Kawai MP10...if the Nord doesn't stick around for too long I think the Kawai might be top of my list as things currently stand. But I'm happy with the Nord at the moment. In terms of Roland I think the FP-7F looks very promising indeed. I would return to Roland stage piano ownership (RDxxx) if they restyled it and moved (preferably removed) the pitch bend/mod wheel. Also, if they could give the V-Piano or its successor a nicer/more realistic tonal character I would investigate that because the V-Piano has a playability and sense of dynamism that is quite intoxicating.

Anyway, there's the rambling explanation as to why the HP-307 found a new home last weekend.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 04:48 PM

.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Steve, you keep this stuff about as long as I do. smile


I know...an expensive curse...never completely satisfied!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/29/10 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I also have an old Roland RD-1000 tucked up under the bed...


Initially I read this as tucked up in bed!

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/30/10 12:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I also have an old Roland RD-1000 tucked up under the bed...


Initially I read this as tucked up in bed!

Cheers,
James
x


That would be alarming!!! sick
Posted by: theJourney

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/30/10 02:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Rimmer
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I also have an old Roland RD-1000 tucked up under the bed...


Initially I read this as tucked up in bed!

Cheers,
James
x


That would be alarming!!! sick


And set the wrong tone for this kind of forum.

How do you know when your digital piano hobby gets out of hand?
When you start talking more about hot boards than hot broads.
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/30/10 02:07 AM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Rimmer
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I also have an old Roland RD-1000 tucked up under the bed...


Initially I read this as tucked up in bed!

Cheers,
James
x


That would be alarming!!! sick


And set the wrong tone for this kind of forum.

How do you know when your digital piano hobby gets out of hand?
When you start talking more about hot boards than hot broads.


Everyone has their own personal fetish I suppose.. blush
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/30/10 04:21 AM

I slept (passed out more likely) on a C7 once at the power station.
Never had a piano in bed but they can be useful AS BEDS wink
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/30/10 02:13 PM

Me and the RD-1000...it's just a close platonic friendship!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/04/10 08:36 PM

Can anyone who owns a GX or GXF comment on the "Tone List" presets in the NX? It seems that Roland has changed quite a bit there in terms of APs and EPs.

Does the GX/F even have "Live Set" as in the NX? Is this "Setup" in the GX/F?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/04/10 10:31 PM

Yeah the GX has a 100 presets similar to the NX
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/04/10 11:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yeah the GX has a 100 presets similar to the NX

I mean the factory presets that everyone seems to complain about when it comes to the EPs. If I'm not mistaken they are quite a bit different in the NX manual.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/04/10 11:36 PM

Oh yes I get your point now.
They are different EP's not sure they are actually different samples though.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/05/10 04:22 PM

Some say the SN EPs are ok on the GX when properly tweaked - and there is lots to tweak. But I don't particularly rate them...they sound a bit small and grainy to me. Woeful when compared with the Nord.

Steve
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/05/10 06:25 PM

I'm hoping these apparently new NX presets showcase the SN EPs better.

There seem to be very fundamental across-the-board differences between the GX and NX tone lists - and in all categories. It will be interesting to hear what GX owners think of them once they get their hands on the NX.

From what I've seen so far, the NX is perhaps a bit more than a simple face-lift of the GX/F. I'm not sure why that surprises me, but it does.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/06/10 05:27 PM

I spent some time copying the various presets out of the RD-700NX and RD-700GX manuals. If anyone wants the raw text files they are here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?4yazzat8tf8af2a

I did a quick comparison of the "TONE" lists of both:

------------------------------
- RD-700NX TONES - 965 TOTAL -
------------------------------

QTY CATEGORY
--- --------
003 CONCERT PIANO
003 STUDIO PIANO
023 BRILLIANT PIANO
005 E.PIANO 1
005 E.PIANO 2
044 E.PIANO 3
014 CLAV
050 MALLET
041 STRINGS
113 PAD
060 ORGAN
059 GUITAR
104 BASS
034 CHOIR/SCAT
086 BRASS
298 SYNTH
023 RHYTHM SETS


------------------------------
- RD-700GX TONES - 532 TOTAL -
------------------------------

QTY CATEGORY
--- --------
026 PIANO
031 E. PIANO
031 CLAV/MALLET
031 ORGAN
026 STRINGS
024 PAD
038 GUITAR/BASS
028 BRASS/WINDS
026 VOICE/SYNTH
270 RHY/GM2


I assume a "tone" here is a basic sound - the NX has almost double the tones of the GX! Why isn't Roland pushing this in their press kits?

And I don't see a lot of the same names in both lists, which is strange. Could someone who is familiar with the GX and SRX expansion boards look over the NX manual and comment? I'm curious as to what exactly is going on here.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/06/10 10:30 PM

I think just doing a cursory look they have grabbed a LOT of the Fantom G's patches and stuck them in.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/07/10 08:34 AM

Thanks Dr! That's a good thing, right?

I just downloaded the Fantom G soundlist PDF and I can't say I see much similarity anywhere - could you point it out? It doesn't help that they have so many different categories (Fantom G: Live, Patch, Waveform; GX: Live, Preset, Tone).
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/11/10 10:48 AM

Anyone get theirs yet. Mine is due the 3rd week of November.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/11/10 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
Anyone get theirs yet. Mine is due the 3rd week of November.


Where'd you order from?
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/12/10 02:56 AM

I've heard through various stores in my town that the central Roland hub for northern europe is in Denmark. And they get them around the 20th of november. Local retailers a little after that I expect.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/12/10 06:08 AM

Got it from Sweetwater.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/12/10 08:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
Got it from Sweetwater.


Same here. Should probably give my salesperson a call and see if there are any definitive dates yet...
Posted by: Tuxic

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/20/10 07:14 AM

The RD700-NX previewed in Sound on sound december issue: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec10/articles/roland-rd700nx.htm
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/20/10 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Tuxic
The RD700-NX previewed in Sound on sound december issue: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec10/articles/roland-rd700nx.htm

Could anyone who's read it relate the gist of what's in there?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/20/10 10:57 AM

OK, sucker born every minute, I paid for the PDF and just read it. Only 7 pages, the last page is a full page ad for SOS, and what you can see in the free preview is the first ~1.5 pages.

He loves the first AP voice and says it is up there with Ivory II! But then he says the Nord Stage EX pianos are possibly better, which is confusing.

You have to turn it off to insert / remove the USB thumb drive, blea.

Here's the killer: he says you can't record the audio while playing back a MIDI file on it. OMG!

[edit] OK, maybe I got that last part wrong, the wording is rather vague. He might instead be saying you can't record your playing to a MIDI file. Either way, if you can't Play => MIDI => WAV, I'm not sure this is the DP for us. Quite disappointing.

[edit 2] I just scoured the NX manual and it seems there is no MIDI file recorder in there, just a MIDI file player. You may be able to do MIDI => WAV, but you can't do Play => MIDI.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/20/10 06:13 PM

** Still works with midi out -> sequencer I pressume. Confusing article seems rushed really (the little I read).
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/20/10 11:12 PM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
** Still works with midi out -> sequencer I pressume.

Oh sure, but then you need a PC near the DP, something I was sincerely hoping to avoid. If I'm going to need a PC to record it, I might as well leave it there and run Ivory or Pianoteq. What on earth are DP manufacturers bringing to the table these days that I can't get elsewhere cheaper and infinitely better?

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
Confusing article seems rushed really (the little I read).

I agree. I would guess 90% press release, 10% personal experience. Not really worth my $1.50.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 03:35 PM

Dewster did the article mention anything in the way of the action and how it feels? Lately I've been really pushing my GXF hard, and have noticed some sluggishness in the action. Is this something the NX with its PHA III action will benefit resolve since it has the third sensor?

On a side note, I had my buddy (and piano teacher) Joe Davidian, who is an amazing jazz piano player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H_QxjjZBI0 comment on how great of a sound the RD700GXF had. And to sit back and listen to someone his caliber play it, I fell in love with the SuperNATURAL piano sound all of again. I had the NX on order, but canceled it because I wanted to wait to play one to make sure that the $2500 was worth it. If the action and AP sounds are a noticeable step up from my GXF, I may make the leap.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Dewster did the article mention anything in the way of the action and how it feels? Lately I've been really pushing my GXF hard, and have noticed some sluggishness in the action. Is this something the NX with its PHA III action will benefit resolve since it has the third sensor?

He said he could could only feel the escapement when playing lightly, which he thinks is correct. He also said the white keys are more textured than the black (which is no surprise: fake ivory vs. fake ebony) but he says there is more friction on them because of it, though that isn't a problem.

Nothing I could find about playability or quick replay. The article is disappointingly short.

Perhaps you could seek out another Roland with PHAIII on it? I'd be interested in your take on the differences.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac

On a side note, I had my buddy (and piano teacher) Joe Davidian, who is an amazing jazz piano player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H_QxjjZBI0 comment on how great of a sound the RD700GXF had..


Very nice player, I was checking out some of his other vids. The trio sounds good too. Jarrett influenced among others, young guy too. Excellent. thumb

Good to see there's a little scene going in a place known more for another thing. thumb
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Perhaps you could seek out another Roland with PHAIII on it? I'd be interested in your take on the differences.
Definitely. I've played extensively on the V-Piano, and I really can't pinpoint it, but the connection between the action and sound is much better than my GXF, so I'm wondering if I'll be as impressed with the NX. Unfortunately I haven't read many who own/played the RD700GXF and have played many PHA III Ivory Feel actions. Those who've played the standard GX and played say the HP-307 didn't seem that impressed and felt that the actions on the HP-307 isn't the same PHA III on the V-Piano. What is it with the V-Piano??? When the NX hits the local show rooms, I'll be there playing it, and I'll report in.
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: PianoZac

On a side note, I had my buddy (and piano teacher) Joe Davidian, who is an amazing jazz piano player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H_QxjjZBI0 comment on how great of a sound the RD700GXF had..


Very nice player, I was checking out some of his other vids. The trio sounds good too. Jarrett influenced among others, young guy too. Excellent. thumb

Good to see there's a little scene going in a place known more for another thing. thumb

Thanks Dave. He's a talented guy. I think he's 30 now. We've got a decent little jazz scene here, and a great Jazz Workshop www.nashvillejazz.org which is a gold mine for us jazz players here in town.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
What is it with the V-Piano???

Maybe it's that crazy dedicated adaptive keyboard processor Roland put in there. The concept always spooked me a bit (who wants the response shifting around without explicitly changing settings?) but according to you (and many others) they apparently nailed it.

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
When the NX hits the local show rooms, I'll be there playing it, and I'll report in.

I look forward to your reactions!
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/22/10 07:03 PM

I've owned V-Piano, HP-307 and RD-700GX(F)...

PHA-III is what it is. I'm bored of the conspiracy theorists that seem to think Roland are fitting different actions in each of the pianos but calling them all PHA-III. Get real folks and think about the world of (relatively) mass production. PHA-III is PHA-III, simple as that.

I liked PHA-II with ivory and escapement. I think it is a very nice action...subjectively to me just as nice as PHA-III. But, PHA-III is quicker, no doubt about it. Whether it is mechanically quicker or just electronically quicker (the third sensor) I don't know but it will play repeated notes like lightning. And the feel of all actions is strongly influenced by the chassis/structure they are fitted into. HP-307 is conventional console DP construction, RD is metal and plastic stage piano, V-Piano is mainly metal and weighs a ton etc.

Zac, if you feel that the connection between (PHA-III) action and sound is better on the V-Piano than HP-307 then welcome to the club. The connection between player and sound is better on the V-Piano than ANY other DP...in this respect the V is uncannily good and very piano-like. That is why pro musicians who just want to play tend to gravitate towards the V-Piano...they don't over-think it like us DP anoraks, they just revel in the organic and satisfying connection they make with the instrument. But this is the result of the V-Piano's radically different tone generation and is nothing to do with it having a different PHA-III keyboard.

All we can do is wait to see if the NX will have different tones to the GX(F) and/or HP-307....but it won't be a V-Piano. For those interested in a DP's sonic fidelity to a real piano, SN is a better bet than the V-Piano...whilst I will always praise the V's playability (and I miss this very much), I could never live with the way it sounds again.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 05:38 AM

Someone on Rolandclan claims to have received his... anyone see any movement on theirs? Tired of waiting frown
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 10:47 AM

My Sweetwater contact says they will be in early rhis week & shipped out immediately.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 11:18 AM

Was just over reading Rolandclan forums and one of their users who owned an RD700GXF got a chance to play the RD700NX and said he sold his GXF and is replacing it with the NX. I canceled my order for the RD700NX with Sweetwater before, but just talked to my contact there and he was offering me the NX at $2399 (they're now at $2599), obviously free shipping, plus if I don't like it, or don't feel it's worth the upgrade, I can send it back at their cost after 30 days. Sounds like a win/win. I may go ahead and re-order it. He said they are getting 28 RD700NX's in by the end of November, and have sold 12. What to do, what to do!!?? Will go nicely with my RPU-3 that's on the way as well. wink
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Greg Curtis
My Sweetwater contact says they will be in early rhis week & shipped out immediately.


That's promising.... hoping it will be today like these guys: http://www.gearnuts.com/store/detail/RD700NX

EDIT: Yay! Sweetwater says In Stock too laugh
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 12:49 PM

Just got an email from Sweetwater. The NX has arrived in stock.
Whoopee! My salesman from Sweetwater just called me & said it would be shipped out today & probably be here Friday.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 01:50 PM

I think I'm gonna go ahead and order the RD700NX, and give as comprehensible of a review between it and the RD700GXF I currently have and report in here. If the NX isn't enough of an improvement over my GXF, I'll send it back to Sweetwater at no charge to me (within 30 days). I may be only guy on here who will have both GXF and NX temporarily to compare the two. I'll be comparing action and sound, particularly the SuperNATURAL sound engine of the NX vs the upgrade SuperNATURAL card of the GXF. Also I'm gonna play some demanding classical stuff and run some fast bebop licks to test the speed of the action. I'll test the sound focus feature, as well as mess with the EPs. I don't really care about MIDI recording capabilities. That's not really why I'm buying a stage piano. It's mostly for the most authentic piano/EP (if even possible) experience in a portable unit. If I can, I'll upload a photo of the two keyboards. Stay tuned!
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 01:54 PM

Excellent...look forward to your findings!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 03:17 PM

Just ordered my NX. Should be here Friday. Can't wait to put it up against the GXF. smile
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/23/10 04:27 PM

Sounds great - I look forward to the review PianoZac!

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/24/10 04:20 AM

Pianozac,
may I ask you to try this classical (Chopin Polonaise) midi file?

It would be wonderful to have an mp3 to compare the NX sound with other instruments.

I will post soon my Promega 3 and Pianoteq rendering of the same midi file.

Thanks in advance.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/24/10 10:14 AM

Originally Posted By: Qbert
Pianozac,
may I ask you to try this classical (Chopin Polonaise) midi file?

It would be wonderful to have an mp3 to compare the NX sound with other instruments.

I will post soon my Promega 3 and Pianoteq rendering of the same midi file.

Thanks in advance.
I don't know that Polonaise, but I will certainly try to post something. Nice playing by the way. What was that recorded on?

Posted by: peanutty

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/24/10 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I think I'm gonna go ahead and order the RD700NX, and give as comprehensible of a review between it and the RD700GXF I currently have and report in here...


Awesome. I'll be looking forward to it! Thanks! thumb
Posted by: ACABRITA

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/26/10 12:26 PM

Hi,
I'm new to this forum.
Since I'm also waiting for the rd700nx would like to be in touch.

Thanks!
AC
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/26/10 02:23 PM

Originally Posted By: ACABRITA
Hi,
I'm new to this forum.
Since I'm also waiting for the rd700nx would like to be in touch.

Thanks!
AC


Welcome. I'm new too but I babble a lot so I've got my post count up and look like an old timer here grin
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/26/10 09:52 PM

Add me to the list of customers waiting their pre-ordered RD-700NX. I also ordered the KS-G8 stand. The saleswoman told me that my NX will be received at the store on December 1st. Having paid for overnight shipping, I should have the unit by the end of next week. I am getting more anxious and excited every day.

Now for the events leading up to this purchase. I visited my local dealer to try out the CP1 and V-Piano. The minute I saw the CP1 I liked its appearance -- but that was all. I did not care for its action compared to Roland keyboards. As for the CP1 sound, I did not like it at all. Everything seemed wrong about it. I could not imagine paying $5,000 for what little this thing does over lower priced digital pianos. Not worth it, in my opinion.

I moved on to the V-Piano. This was a VERY big mistake. I instantly fell in love with its appearance, feel, and terrific sound. But right now $6,000 is beyond my budget. For the next few days I nearly went out of my mind thinking about the V-Piano. Eventually, I came to my senses and told myself the purchase must be postponed for about a year. It causes me distress every time I think about the long wait. Those of you who own this fine piano are really fortunate.

In the interim I am looking forward to my RD-700NX. Hour after hour I keep thinking about the NX and how to prepare for its arrival. This weekend I am clearing a large space in my studio. In the interim I keep checking the web for new information, though there is none to be found. It's a maddening wait!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/26/10 10:36 PM

ClassicalMastery, welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your new NX!

The list price of the V-Piano may well be $6000, however I gather that some users here paid a considerable amount less.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Speedy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/26/10 11:32 PM

I was blown away by the CP-1. Don't really care for DX type sounds but when I played the one's on the CP-1 I couldn't stop. AP's and Rhodes are great too. You can shop it for a lot less than 5k. Like the V-piano too. Killer AP's. Just too big to gig with.
Posted by: ACABRITA

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/30/10 01:16 PM

Here it is a recording I made with my new RD-700NX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu06MRMvNDE
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/30/10 02:55 PM

Can't wait to get home, my NX is waiting for me laugh
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/30/10 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The list price of the V-Piano may well be $6000, however I gather that some users here paid a considerable amount less.
I searched very hard for a price less than $6,000. Those deals might have been available in limited quantity for a short period. The only units available now for less than the full amount are customer returns and refurbished units. I won't accept anything other than a new V-Piano, so this purchase will have to wait at least a few months.

Speaking of waiting, hopefully my NX will be shipped soon. The wait is killing me. There aren't any new youtube videos of the NX. Few customers must have received their unit so far.
Posted by: ACABRITA

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/30/10 09:40 PM

ClassicalMastery...I received mine on monday. I already put one test recording in youtube today, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu06MRMvNDE
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/30/10 10:54 PM

Thanks. I watched that video, but there was a snowstorm in progress. The entire background was white. I couldn't see you playing your new NX. Or were you just trying to fool us, and you actually recorded your GX while waiting for the NX delivery? grin
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 12:36 PM

Can anyone out there with an NX provide DPBSD MP3s of the three basic AP patches? These would be:

- Concert Grand
- Studio Grand
- Brilliant Grand

I'm trying to figure out if there is just one SN base piano out there with multiple patch variations, or if there indeed are multiple SN base pianos.

Thanks!
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 02:30 PM

Dewster: I'll give it a crack tonight if no one beats me to it smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: 7even
Dewster: I'll give it a crack tonight if no one beats me to it smile

Sounds good!

I'm looking through the manual now and I honestly can't tell if you can render MIDI => WAV or not.
Posted by: Patterson

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 10:22 PM

I've been playing on the RD 700NX since last Friday. I had an RD 700SX, and sold it for the upgrade. I have run the keyboard through an old pair of studio monitors (an old pair of Alesis MkII actives), a Roland KC500 amp and a PA system.

Preliminary impressions

There is no doubt at all that this is a huge step up from the SX.

I like the fake ivory-feel keys. I know some don't but to me it adds to the sense of playing a real instrument as opposed to a synth (or a hammond B-3, for that matter)

The action is superb. For the first time, if I close my eyes, I can imagine that I am sitting at a grand. Feel is subjective and varies from grand to grand, so for some this will not seem right,but I was very impressed. The escapement feel is odd, because it is duplicating an artifact that shouldn't make a keyboard feel "better" to play, but it adds to the connection with the instrument.

The improvement in the piano sounds is also obvious and very good. I think the studio piano is rightly named. It's a more subtle sound that would do well in a recording, or where a warm jazz or similar sound is right. The Concert is a fuller and more in-your-face sound, but can be very expressive, There just seems to be more dynamic range. The Brilliant piano is probably something that would beuseful to cut through a mix live, but I see myself using it least of all.

The piano sounds are more relistic and less grainy (sorry, it's the only word that comes to mind) than the SX. It is still not a grand piano, because it can't reproduce the feel of being surrounded by and playing on a wood and steel instrument. No one will sit at the NX with a blindfold and believe they are at a Steiway concert grand. The interaction of the harmonics (sympathetic resonance), for example, is really good, but not quite there. On the other hand, this is just about as close as I've come to that feeling. The NX compares very favourably with the V-Piano, and that's saying a lot (at about half the price), given how impressed I was with that keyboard. What I would expect is that, if you mic'd a grand piano very well in a recording stutio and played it alongside an NX, it would be hard to tell which one was the "fake piano".

That brings me to an intangible, which is the connection between the keys and the sound. A great keyboard feel and a great tone generating engine isn't very useful if there is no subjective feel that they mesh well. The Roland succeeds in this.

The electric pianos and clavs are very good. They are much, much better and more realistic than the SX. You can hear the rubber hammers of the Rhodes, and the electronic leakage of the Wurlitzer. The variety and programmabiltiy isn't as good as some of the Nord boards, but I'll be happy to play them. I use a Hammond B-3 Clone, so I won't comment much on the VK-type organ sounds. They are serviceable and I would use them live in a pinch.

The rest of the sounds are OK, and pretty standard sample playback and GM fare. They are there if you need to use them, but probably will stay in the background for most players. I also found the structure and programmability fairly easy to navigate, but I'm used to the SX.

On the theory that a stage piano is a set of compromises, the NX does very well. It is not a grand piano. There are still some subtle differences that the technology is not quite ready to bridge - at least at real life prices. It is, on the other hand, a great instrument. Usually my acid test is whether I am driven back over and over to play. It's the reason no one should do a review on the first day or so after a purchase like this.

On that basis, this keyboard makes the grade.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 10:36 PM

Thanks for that review, Patterson. I suspected the NX would be a large step up from the SX and you confirmed it. Do you feel that anything has been lost with the upgrade from the GX to NX?

You influenced me in a second way. The dealer from who I ordered my NX revised their shipping date and told me today they have no clear idea when my NX would be shipped. That's all it took for me to cancel the order. I was seriously thinking about ordering the V-Piano instead, but after reading your review I decided to wait until next year for the V-Piano and order the NX now from a different dealer.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/01/10 10:57 PM

Great review Patterson. I agree with all your points as far as the NX being a great compromise that really exceeds well in most areas-for me all areas that I care about like sound, feel, and the connection of the two. I played it literally back to back with my GXF, and knew within 10 mins actually that the NX wouldn't be worth the money. It is a substantial upgrade to the SX. I played an SX not long ago, and the GXF is a substantial upgrade as well. The NX is not a substantial upgrade to the GXF. I would say marginal if any in sound quality, and slightly better in the action, but then again, some prefer the PHAII vs the PHAIII. In any event, nice little review, and congrats on the new board. If I didn't own the GXF, I would most certainly have kept the NX. I think Roland is just inching the bar up ever so slightly. Heck, I think even the GXF would be the best digital stage piano on the market right now.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Heck, I think even the GXF would be the best digital stage piano on the market right now.


What is interesting to me is what will happen if the superNATURAL kit gets upgraded? The GXF would probably be able to use it as in GXFII but the NX is stuck where it is. That makes the GX even better.

/PS
My current employer is late with my paycheck so my NX is still waiting at the dealer for another week. I have a Gibson Songwriter guitar if somebody wants to trade? smile
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 06:01 AM

Fred, the Supernatural Kit was very much a stop-gap measure for Roland to compete with Yamaha's launch of the CP1/5/50 range while they prepared the NX. There seems little possibility of Roland putting out a further expansion upgrade for a model which has been discontinued, and which in some respects would, as you point out, eclipse a current model.

Though there's been a great deal of discussion of the SN Kit here, I'd be prepared to bet that only a small proportion of GX owners have actually purchased the upgrade - the card's main use was to be able to bundle it with the GX as the GXF to compete with Yamaha.

But as a trend, the big manufacturers are going cold on the expansion card concept (hence the loss of the SRX slots in the NX, and Yamaha's abandoning of the PLG slots) as the number of units sold doesn't generally appear to justify the development, production and distribution costs.
Posted by: Patterson

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 06:30 AM

Thanks.

Classical, as far as things that have been lost from the NX, I really can't think of anything significant. I never used the expansion slots, strangely, because it makes it harder to rationalize getting a new keyboard. I have normally sold and bought a basic unit I was happy with. The access to a dedicated button for a drum that you can use for live play was something that I missed, because I used it for percussion. On the other hand, the user settings make it simple to set one up in about 30 seconds. You balance those losses with new functions like the ability to play and time-stretch or shorten .wav and .mp3 files from a USB for rehearsals, and I'm not going to miss anything.
Posted by: Patterson

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 08:46 AM

Aidan, that was my feeling as well. Who knows what Roland might do, but if they had any long range plan to come out with an upgrade board, they would want to get the maximum possible sales. It would only make sense to justify the development and production costs. The fact that they cut out the expansion slots in the NX is a pretty strong hint that they don't need the potential market of all the customers who are going to buy an NX. Of course, it's all reading tea leaves, so we may be wrong.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 09:17 AM

Originally Posted By: FredFabulous
What is interesting to me is what will happen if the superNATURAL kit gets upgraded? The GXF would probably be able to use it as in GXFII but the NX is stuck where it is. That makes the GX even better.
The GX series eventually will be retired due to redundancy across models. If a SuperNATURAL upgrade is released, it would consist of the same expansion board and new software. Don't hold your breath waiting for it, however. Chances are the GX will be phased out in 2011.

Although the NX has no expansion slots, it can be upgraded via USB, as is done with other Roland products. The GX is upgraded to a GXF through the addition of the expansion board and a software update through USB. The more complex V-Piano requires an update to the VP Evolution through only a software update via USB.

This is Roland's trend: by using more advanced hardware and simplified implementation they are reducing their costs and delivery complexity.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/02/10 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: 7even
Dewster: I'll give it a crack tonight if no one beats me to it smile

Sounds good!

I'm looking through the manual now and I honestly can't tell if you can render MIDI => WAV or not.


Yeah, I don't think that's possible. The way the interface is, you can either choose a song and hit Play, or you can record a new song. Can't hit Play and start recording frown

Also, it seems to use some default piano sound for MIDI files; can't override it as far as I can tell. I'll keep working on it though.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/03/10 01:14 AM

Just a question about the key surface of the new NX: is the "ivory touch" the same as that on the V-Piano? I have played on the V-Piano in a Guitar Center, and the surface gets pretty grimy and ... grainy on the fingers. Is it also true on the NX?
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/03/10 03:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Othello
Just a question about the key surface of the new NX: is the "ivory touch" the same as that on the V-Piano? I have played on the V-Piano in a Guitar Center, and the surface gets pretty grimy and ... grainy on the fingers. Is it also true on the NX?

Yes, they're the same keys. The V-Piano's keys felt rough because they'd been played on by every Joe Shmoe who walks in a plays it. So the keys aren't taken care of. I've had my RD-700GXF longer than many dealers have had V-Pianos and my keys are in much better shape than the PHAII and PHAIII keys I've seen at dealers. If I were a dealer, I'd clean them at the end of every day, because that's something that could turn someone off. Personally I really like my keys now that they've been slightly worn and have a rougher touch.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/03/10 11:39 PM

Today I received my NX. I had to cancel my original order because the online store was unsure of when the instrument would be shipped. There was nothing left to do but cancel my order and place a new one with a different online store.

Having played the NX for only a few hours, I will reserve my comments about it for a later date. In the interim you can bet I am really happy with this digital piano. Every successive iteration of the RD-700 series is an improvement.

While searching for another store with NX inventory I discovered something else: I could buy a V-Piano for several hundred dollars less than expected. This was very tempting. But I decided against the purchase since I would probably want a set of $1,000 speakers too. I plan to buy the V-Piano next year.

I ordered the NX with the KS-G8 stand. Luckily, its price was the lowest found anywhere. The stand is packed with much more cardboard protection than the NX digital piano! It arrives folded and requires about 45 - 60 minutes assembly time, depending on your skill and the chosen stand height level. My recommendation is to leave the default Level 1 unless you have a very high chair or piano stool. Even then you might still have to sit on a pillow to raise your hands level with the keyboard and avoid repetitive motion injury.

The KS-G8 is shipped with a couple simple tools. No other tools are required. Height adjustment parts can be attached to the stand as well as plastic holders for the tools. The holders are useful for holding the items if you are gigging with the stand and worried about losing the tools or height extension parts. Moveable plastic guides attached to the stand hold cables neatly in place.

Given the amount I paid for this stand, I would not hesitate to buy it again. It keeps the RD-700NX completely stable on the carpeting in my music studio.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/04/10 05:33 AM

Yes I had a KS-G8 with my RD-700...sold the piano but kept the stand for future use...great piece of kit and good looking too.

Look forward to reading your opinion about the NX.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/04/10 11:44 AM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
Today I received my NX...

ClassicalMastery, I'm probably freaking out over nothing, but I'm kind of new to keyboards, so please understand my fear, even though it's probably unjustified. Once I have owned a few more digital pianos and synths I may understand things like you do.

Anyway, my question regards the harpsichord voice - does it really seem SuperNATURAL? Does the piano designer work with it? If so, what can you adjust? Do you hear any looping?

TIA!
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/04/10 12:21 PM

The top row of presets PIANO and E.PIANO are SuperNATURAL presets. The harpsicords are located in the CLAV category below. All the Live Set presets in this lower row are not SuperNATURAL.

The controls on the left adjust the sound. As the knobs are turned the display shows a changing graphical representation as seen in the promotional Roland video. I have not heard any looping on the harpsichords, but I must admit that I spent no more than a minute on these specific presets while quickly running through all presets in a couple hours.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/04/10 11:24 PM

So the harpsichord isn't SN? It seems like it might be on the FP-7F.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/05/10 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
So the harpsichord isn't SN? It seems like it might be on the FP-7F.


I don't think so. When I played the FP-7F earlier I got the impression that only the first Grand Piano sound was SN.

But that said, I have no idea how Roland distinguishes a SuperNatural sound from a non-SuperNatural sound.

Cheers,
James
x

Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/05/10 09:54 AM

Hello everybody,
You helped me a lot with my decision regarding a new DP. I went for an rd700nx, which arrived five days ago. I tried the cp1, sv-1, v-piano and rd700gxf in store. I really liked the sound and feel of the rd700gxf best, so I ordered the NX. Now that I have used it for some hours, I think I made the right decision. The acoustic pianos are the best I've ever played in a DP. They are very dynamic and alive. I've only once played a real rhodes piano, but to me the SN-rhodes sounds are quite authentic and have a good feel. You have to tweak them a little and adjust the keytouch but then they're really nice, even compared to the cp1.
I have a question for other NX owners regarding the SN-e-pianos. If you turn of the speaker simulation and make use of the sound-focus feature, do you also get a very noisy and nearly unusable sound? Thanks for any information about that.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/05/10 08:02 PM

The SuperNATURAL sounds are easily differentiated from their non-SuperNATURAL counterparts in the display. SuperNATURAL sounds have a graphical representation of the instrument and the word "SuperNATURAL" overlaid on the graphic. The non-SuperNATURAL sounds only have the name of the sound on a plain black background. The Features tab for the RD-700NX on Roland website explains that only pianos and electric pianos are SuperNATURAL sounds.

Roland RD-700NX Features
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/06/10 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
So the harpsichord isn't SN? It seems like it might be on the FP-7F.


Straight out of the G8 ...as far as my ears can tell.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/06/10 07:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: dewster
So the harpsichord isn't SN? It seems like it might be on the FP-7F.


Straight out of the G8 ...as far as my ears can tell.

Do you mean for the 7F or NX?
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/06/10 08:49 AM

I posted this on another thread but as there is a lot of cross talk regarding the NX and the FP-7F, I thought I would again paste the email I received from Roland UK regarding the SN pianos in the FP-7F. I pushed that point that the Harpischord was listed in the SN pianos and he claims it is SN. He emailed Japan for confirmation..
Quote:

All the Super Natural pianos are :

No. Tone name
001 Grand Piano1
002 Piano + Str.
003 Grand Piano2
004 Piano + Pad
005 Grand Piano3
006 MagicalPiano
007 Rock Piano
008 Piano+Choir
009 Honky-tonk
010 Harpsichord
011 Coupled Hps.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/06/10 09:02 AM

What distinguishes a SuperNatural sound from a non-SuperNatural sound?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/06/10 12:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
What distinguishes a SuperNatural sound from a non-SuperNatural sound?

I would assume that means no stretching, no layer transitions, and no looping, but this whole SN harpsichord thing is totally unexpected.

And it's hard for me to believe they would put a SN harpsichord in the FP-7F and then leave it out of the RD700-NX, but I guess that's what people here are saying.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/07/10 10:32 PM

A SuperNATURAL sound has 3 characteristics:
  • Seamless tone variations regardless of played velocity
  • Smooth and natural tone decay
  • Expressivity (unique ring and decay) for every single key
It is possible that Roland put a SN harpsichord in the FP-7F but omitted it from the RD-700NX. They might have done this intentionally, or it could have been due to separation of project development. Sometimes Roland has released one instrument with a superior feature and then followed it with the release of a second instrument that has slightly older technology.

For example, they did this with storage media when standards were changing. Since their engineers decided during the design phase to use CompactFlash cards, they did not make a design change later when USB flash storage was becoming increasingly popular. As a result some instruments were released with a USB port and others were released with a CompactFlash port. The type of storage depended on when development of the instrument began.

In the Tone List for the FP-7F there are 3 harpsichords. Two are in the Piano section, which tends to suggest they are SN sounds. The other two are in the GM2 List.
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/07/10 11:49 PM

Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct, so if you paid more for it, it's time to make them honor their price guarantee.

The things I don't like about it so far:
The escapement simulation adds some noise too that keys when they're pressed. In addition to the thunk-thunk-thunk that we're all used to from acoustic pianos, now there's also a "thick-thick-thick" sound. The grand piano sounds also have a bit of a metallic edge to them, but it's not too bad. Maybe I can dampen it by tweaking all those filter settings. Also, this is one heavy unit.

The keyboard action is about as realistic as you can get from the state of the art. I won't say that it's more or less realistic than another brand, because that would depend on which acoustic piano you're comparing it too. When I was playing it, I quickly forgot that I was playing a digital piano. Ivory feel feels great, so lets hose they fixed that key wear issue. Knocking on wood (or ebony)...

Sexy new screen is a little bigger, but still not color so it's not really that much sexier.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct, so if you paid more for it, it's time to make them honor their price guarantee.

Holy crap, that's a great price mah115! And thanks for your preliminary comments!

I see that they (and others) have something called the RD-700NXC, which is the NX with the RPU-3 pedal thrown in.

[edit] I just got an email price quote from them for the RD-700NXC - $2199. I don't think it's in stock though.

[edit2] I just pulled the trigger on the NXC! Thanks loads for that pointer mah115!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct, so if you paid more for it, it's time to make them honor their price guarantee.

Holy crap, that's a great price mah115! And thanks for your preliminary comments!

I see that they (and others) have something called the RD-700NXC, which is the NX with the RPU-3 pedal thrown in.

[edit] I just got an email price quote from them for the RD-700NXC - $2199. I don't think it's in stock though.

That's cool that they bundle it all together. My RPU-3 that's been on backorder for 2 months, finally shipped last night. I can't wait to plug it in and see how it works with my GXF. I may be the first guy on here to get the RPU-3. smile
Posted by: kishonti

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 01:34 PM

I got my RPU two weeks ago (with my FP7F) but it is a disappointment because it wanders around under the piano. Although it looks big and heavy, but my legs are much stronger. I put a big box of printer papers behind it to brake the movement somewhat.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: kishonti
I got my RPU two weeks ago (with my FP7F) but it is a disappointment because it wanders around under the piano. Although it looks big and heavy, but my legs are much stronger. I put a big box of printer papers behind it to brake the movement somewhat.

Yeah I know what you mean. I hate that my sustain pedal wanders around. I'll be keeping my RPU-3 at home, so I'll likely just rig it up with duct tape to keep it in place. What about functionality? The tri-pedal on the Nord Piano works very very well. How well does the RPU-3 work?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 04:15 PM

Congrats dewster!

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 04:24 PM

Pick me up off the floor.......

He's done it, he's finally done it!

It had better live up to expectations or we'll all suffer...mark my words.

Congratulations Dewster!!!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 04:38 PM

Holy Santa Claus $hit!!!! Congrats Dewster! Man I look forward to a much more technical review. thumb
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/08/10 05:23 PM

Thanks all!

We did it mainly to get my wife off of the crappy Studiologic SL-880 that keeps injuring her arms (plus voice selection on the Yamaha Motif Rack ES it's connected to is quite cumbersome - there's nothing like an all-in-one unit) and partly for tax purposes. I'm very much looking forward to it but - it being a DP and all - I'm sure some parts of it will majorly suck! Were it looped I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Roland almost had me with the GXF, though the triple sensor keys and to a lesser extent the higher resolution screen in the NX are a plus. Crossed fingers that the ivory feel won't require a repair.

If it ever arrives (it's currently out of stock at RMC Audio with no ETA) I'll definitely run several of the voices (including the harpsichord) through the DPBSD gauntlet and do some review posts.
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/09/10 01:01 PM

After lurking on these forums for years, I'm happy to finally be able to contribute back to the community! Be sure to share your review, Dewster.

I've noticed a problem with my damper pedal (I got the regular one)--sometimes it gets "stuck," I'll release it but my notes are still sustained. It goes away if I press the pedal again or give the casing a good kick. I can't seem to reproduce the problem as it seems to occur randomly, so I'm guessing (and hoping) it's a problem with the pedal, and not the keyboard software. Please let me know if any of you experience the same thing.

Another problem is that the highest key gets stuck on the down position. This is just shoddy, so I hope it's an isolated incident.

In case you're curious, I found RMC Audio by using Google and searching: RD-700NX "call for price". Vendors are prohibited by the vendor to advertise prices below a certain point (it seems like $2599 for the RD-700NX) to prevent a price war, so if you can find a place that isn't able to advertise the price, it's probably a better deal. Another good place is BPMmusic.com, about two years ago they had the FP-7 with stand selling for $1600, where the Guitar Center price was $2200. I almost bought it.

[edit] Someone was asking: The record function records a WAV file, and file sizes are about 10MB a minute. So far, both my generic 256MB and 1GB flash drives work. I don't have a bigger one to test right now. If anybody wants samples, let me know.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/09/10 04:14 PM

I've got my RPU-3 in today. Going to give her a test drive tonight. Let me know your thoughts dewster on how you like the RPU-3 with your new NX.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/09/10 04:31 PM

Will do PianoZac! I'd like to hear what you think of it as well.

Thanks for that search tip mah115! Question: did they charge your credit card immediately, or did they wait until they were just about to ship it? The credit card company called today to confirm it was a legit transaction, but RMC doesn't currently have any NXC's in stock (as per their web page: "Availability: Preorder - Shipping Soon").
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/09/10 10:44 PM

Sorry dewster, I don't know. I didn't place an order then because they weren't in stock and no ETA, but they notified me when the units arrived and I ordered it then.
Posted by: moleskincrusher

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 12:51 AM

In re wandering pedal units:

I considered the G8, but it looks to me like something from an ice hockey game. I bought the Roland V-Stand (possibly no longer being sold by Roland, but still available I believe from Ultimate Support), Model KS-V7, for my new FP-7F. This is the ideal stage-piano stand IMO -- stable, snazzy-looking, not too pricey, incredibly easy and quick to set up (no tools needed, no add'l hardware, less than a minute); and my RPU-3 sits snug and motionless in the apex of the "V". The V-Stand was marketed with the FP-7 since 2007, and you can still see it on the Roland website and elsewhere in photos and videos of the FP-7.

BTW, thank you, you magnificent posters, for leading me to the FP-7F after 12 years of searching for a reasonably priced successor to my Kawai MP9000.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 03:26 AM

Putting the pedal on top of a small carpet mat can help considerably - I use an old car mat, which I find keeps the relatively light standard Roland damper pedal in place pretty well, but if you wanted to be sophisticated you could fix some Velcro hooks to the bottom of the pedal.

I had a V-Stand and while it's easy to carry and quick to set up, I personally found the arms had too much flex for me. Also, while great if you're using a single sustain pedal, the "footwell" wasn't so good if you also had an expression pedal and a couple of footswitches in the mix too, as I frequently had to.

Dewster, amazed but pleased you finally took the leap! I'll be interested to see how the NX works out for you as a real-life instrument. I finally sold my GX yesterday and part of me is very sad at letting it go. Both the GX and the CP5 are compromise instruments with strong and weak points, but last night at a gig in an extremely warm room, I really missed the more secure feeling of the RD's matt keys. It does bug me somewhat, too, that you cannot press a key down on the CP5 without triggering a sound, no matter how softly. Hmm, seller's remorse, anyone? smile

Have any of the new NX owners had the chance to use their axe in a band situation yet, and if so, did you use the Sound Focus feature, and did it help. If not yet gigged, can NX owners give their impressions of what this control is actually DOING? I'm guessing combined compression and high EQ boost but obviously I've not got one in front of me to try.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 09:00 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Thanks all!

We did it mainly to get my wife off of the crappy Studiologic SL-880 that keeps injuring her arms (plus voice selection on the Yamaha Motif Rack ES it's connected to is quite cumbersome - there's nothing like an all-in-one unit) and partly for tax purposes. I'm very much looking forward to it but - it being a DP and all - I'm sure some parts of it will majorly suck! Were it looped I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Roland almost had me with the GXF, though the triple sensor keys and to a lesser extent the higher resolution screen in the NX are a plus. Crossed fingers that the ivory feel won't require a repair.

If it ever arrives (it's currently out of stock at RMC Audio with no ETA) I'll definitely run several of the voices (including the harpsichord) through the DPBSD gauntlet and do some review posts.


Congrats on your purchase! Being a GX owner from 2008 and converting it to a GXF, I will say you made a good choice. However, as far as the key wear concern, I had Roland replace my keybed (free of charge of course!) and they seemed to have improved the wear problem. Do not use instant hand sanitizers that contain alcohol on your hands, that seems to be the big problem in the premature wear of the keys. Just use regular soap and water or liquid soap that does not contain alcohol. I've been able to keep my keys pretty smooth for a while now following that tip. The keys do "change" in time, but don't necessarily wear. Roland even stated that about the keys, that they change over time. Good luck with your new axe and I think we all look forward to a technical review!
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 09:06 AM

The Sound Focus feature seems like a combination of compression and EQ just as you observed. However, I think most users are interpreting the use of this control differently from Roland's intentions.

Under normal cirumstances to stand out in a live band performance or in a recording the audio engineer would increase the value of the mixer slider for the NX. The Roland NX video mentions using Sound Focus in an "ensemble" setting. This description has me wondering if the video actually means Sound Focus is intended for settings with quieter types of music than rock or mainstream popular music. The owner's manual documents how Sound Focus affects various tone parameters. The way Sound Focus works is complex and subtle, which again leads me to think this control is intended for performances where sound amplification is minimal or nonexistent.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 03:28 PM

Slightly off topic, yet still applies a bit I suppose, but I received my RPU-3 last night, and it's an amazing little addition to my GXF. Just makes playing the GXF that much more fun, and more and more authentic (for an stage piano). If I had kept the NX, and I didn't have the RPU-3 on order, I would certainly order one. As well, for all of you RD700SX, RD700GX, RD700GXF, and RD700NX owners who don't have the RPU-3, it's worthy upgrade. Great half pedaling, really nice damper, and great sostenuto pedaling as well. It does provide much more control over the dynamics, which is really important to a lot of us. The K-RD700GX1 SN upgrade helped leaps and bounds with the playability of the GX, and the RPU-3 really re-enforces that. I noticed a bigger difference on the SN pianos than on the standard pianos. Could have just been my ears. confused
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 04:41 PM

If Dewster gives the NX the thumbs up, Roland should exploit that in their marketing. I can just see the glossy full page ad in Keyboard Mag now: "Even Dewster likes it". ;^)

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 05:17 PM

Well, without ever having laid on one, I can tell you there are things I pre-hate about it already. The joystick should be moved from the keybed area, or removed altogether, and the case shortened and lightened. It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission. Not being able to render a MIDI file to WAV is another. Speakers, even crappy ones, would have been useful. If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Well, without ever having laid on one, I can tell you there are things I pre-hate about it already. The joystick should be moved from the keybed area, or removed altogether, and the case shortened and lightened. It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission. Not being able to render a MIDI file to WAV is another. Speakers, even crappy ones, would have been useful. If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.


I don't think the pipe organ is SN but it sounds great grin
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 06:04 PM

"Introducing the Roland RD-700NX. Dewster likes certain aspects of it. And that's saying something"

(sorry I'll go now)

Greg.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: sullivang
"Introducing the Roland RD-700NX. Dewster likes certain aspects of it. And that's saying something"

Ha! I guess I'm the Mr. Cranky of DPs. Sorry for being such a negative vibe merchant - my expectations (to me anyway) don't seem all that high.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/10/10 07:22 PM

Nah, I don't think you have unrealistically high expectations at all, but yes, you do have a bit of a reputation, and I'm just having a bit of a lend of you. smile

Greg.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 04:15 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Sorry for being such a negative vibe merchant - my expectations (to me anyway) don't seem all that high.


Ooh I think you work pretty hard on your Mr Cranky image, D - after all, an avatar that suggests you suck lemons all day long isn't the best way to start an upbeat thread smile

Seriously, though, some of your expectations, to me at least, do seem a bit out of kilter.

For example, I'm not sure why you're so keen on a "SN pipe organ" sound on the RD series. If you're a serious organist, surely you won't want to play that sort of sound on a piano-weighted action?

Any serious organist is going to buy a proper instrument for home practice, not use something clearly marked as a "stage piano". Roland realise this and thus the pipe organ sound is not a priority for them on the RDs.

Finally, something to remember when that NX arrives and you start growling with dissatisfaction – the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there, as this post of mine on another forum reflects.


Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 05:33 AM

Originally Posted By: mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct


That's sound not only unbelievable but also frustrating to me. Here in Italy the price is around 2.300/2.400 euro (more than 3.000 USD).

thomann.de price isn't different

frown
Posted by: kishonti

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 09:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Qbert
Originally Posted By: mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct


That's sound not only unbelievable but also frustrating to me. Here in Italy the price is around 2.300/2.400 euro (more than 3.000 USD).

thomann.de price isn't different

frown



The value added tax (19-25%) explains most of the difference. The sales tax in US is much lower and most online purchases are not taxed.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 10:08 AM

Most products have always been cheaper in the US and will remain cheaper for some time to come. Until the rest of the world stops sponsoring the American consumer habits and/or until the US government finally understand that you cannot close the budget deficit hole and provide for good social coverage, infrastructure etc for your citizens unless you raise taxes in some respect. Sorry for this side hit (correct English?), but it bothers many people outside the US; seems that on certain products companies loose a lot of money just to maintain/gain market share in the US and grab that money back by way overpricing their products in other parts of the world like the EU. And the rest is sponsoring our governments of course...

I hope I didn't start a war with this remark ;-)
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 11:01 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
If the FP-7F proves to have a SN harpsichord and the NX doesn't, I'll cry. If the NX had a SN pipe organ I'd be jumping for joy.


I think one of the pipe organs in the FP-7F is pretty impressive. Nothing quite like the real thing but we know that already. I have the EastWest Silver library which has a very decent Pipe organ sound which I think sounds more authentic than the FP-7's but there isn't that much in it. Granted, i'm somewhat doing this from memory..!

Congrats on the NX by the way. I think it was the inevitable place for you to end up..

Regards. Rimmer
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/11/10 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
... after all, an avatar that suggests you suck lemons all day long isn't the best way to start an upbeat thread smile

That avatar does kind of browbeat one. OK, changed to a non-threatening piece of toast.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
If you're a serious organist, surely you won't want to play that sort of sound on a piano-weighted action?

My wife plays for a local small church and so often uses the pipe organ and string sounds. I love it when she plays Bach, and it would be fantastic if Roland would toss at least a small configurable positive organ in there - they already have the samples just laying around. I don't get why there aren't more keyboards aimed at church pianists / keyboardists.

Originally Posted By: Aidan
... the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there...

Fifteen years ago or so I was in a piano store pawing the used stuff while my wife was shopping methods and sheets. I happened upon a tiny cheap (~$100) spinet with the lightest action I think I've ever encountered. It didn't sound anything like a piano, but it didn't sound all that bad either, like some different kind of instrument altogether. I still think about that instrument now and then - for all its faults it was very organic and real, much realer than any DP.
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 05:28 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
It lacks a music rest, which is a rather large omission.

Lack of a music rest is annoying. I guess they figured that anyone worthy of playing their flagship keyboard would be so good they wouldn't need sheet music. I think I'll bend myself a clip-on stand out of coat hanger wire, covered with a silicone tube to prevent scratching the case.
The sticky pedal issue seems to have gone away. Maybe it just needed to be broken in. The sticky key is a bit less sticky now, it comes back up but there's still a bit more friction. But I don't think I'll ever use the highest key anyway, so I'm not in a rush to get it fixed (although I probably will eventually).
Originally Posted By: dewster
My wife plays for a local small church and so often uses the pipe organ and string sounds. I love it when she plays Bach, and it would be fantastic if Roland would toss at least a small configurable positive organ in there - they already have the samples just laying around. I don't get why there aren't more keyboards aimed at church pianists / keyboardists.

I'm a bit disappointed with the organs; it wish that they were more configurable. The organ is essentially a 17th century synthesizer, so I want to be able to adjust the stops and add a pedal board. But I suppose Roland wants to sell the C-330...
Originally Posted By: Aidan
... the current crop of top-end DPs are in reality all much better than a substantial amount of the "real pianos" out there...

The RD-700NX is certainly better than my old Yamaha upright that could only play notes forte and fortissimo.
Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
The Sound Focus feature seems like a combination of compression and EQ just as you observed.

Here's the default piano tone without and then with Sound Focus [edit: SF set to max. It's a knob you can adjust.].
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15297977/SoundFocus.mp3
It distorts to sound to make it sound more "in your head" I guess...
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 05:59 AM

RE: that Sound Focus demo, it sounds mono with Sound Focus on!!! Did something go wrong? Yuck!! smile

Greg.
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 08:43 AM

Ehi, very nice! How can they get this effect?
confused
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: mah115
Here's the default piano tone without and then with Sound Focus.

Is that with the Sound Focus set to max? It does sound like the stereo field has been substantially collapsed and the result compressed, which is maybe what you want when sharing a PA with other musicians.

They must have put this feature in so as to staunch the endless whining I read about the RD-700GX "not cutting through the mix". Probably not needed so much for solo performance.

My main issue with it is that it stole a knob and switch from the effects section.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 09:17 AM

Originally Posted By: mah115
I'm a bit disappointed with the organs; it wish that they were more configurable. The organ is essentially a 17th century synthesizer, so I want to be able to adjust the stops and add a pedal board. But I suppose Roland wants to sell the C-330...

Sometimes I wish that Roland would dangerously skirt going belly-up. Like Kurzweil, this might force them to dump all their samples in a "kitchen sink" single keyboard, thus eliminating internal competition between models and finally giving us what we want.
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster

Is that with the Sound Focus set to max?
Yeah, that's set to max. I think it's pretty much the same as the compressor but normalizes the volume, so I agree that the knob is better off linked to an effect.

Does anybody know what the compressor/sound focus actually does to the waveform? When I turn it on, it sounds like I've stuck my head into the piano. I wish I could take the board to work and hook it up to an oscilloscope, but it's too darn heavy.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: mah115
Does anybody know what the compressor/sound focus actually does to the waveform?



Figure 1. Spectral pan view of the file. The stereo image is obviously fairly collapsed.


Figure 2. Waveform view of the file. It's pretty clear that the sound is compressed (and boosted).
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 08:29 PM

Oooh, cool. So they mono'ed it, compressed it, and upped the volume?

I still don't think that both compression and sound focus each deserved a knob. I'm starting to think that this design was driven by their marketing department rather than engineering.

I've always been amused by how many of these "effects" come from artifacts or distortion. A lot of engineers are trying really hard to get rid of them, and another lot are trying to put them back in.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: mah115

When I turn it on, it sounds like I've stuck my head into the piano.


Technically, it's the opposite - it sounds like you are listening to the piano from a long way way, because it sounds very mono. If you stick your head inside the piano, it will sound MORE stereo than normal. (of course, the piano would never sound that clear when listening from such a great distance)

Does it have a standard mono output as well, in addition to the Sound Focus function? (I assume so)

Greg.
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 10:42 PM

There's 2 outputs for speakers on the back: "R" and "L/mono

When you stick your head into the piano, the whole soundboard is resonating and your ears are drowning in the sound. I maybe that's supposed to make it sound "closer" and thus rise up above the rest of the ensemble?

BTW, the Ivory Feel keys seem to have changed, but I'm not sure. I seem to remember that on the HP-207 I tested two years ago the keys felt more like very fine sandpaper or unglazed porcelain, but on the NX they're more like polished wood (which I prefer). Has anyone else noticed that, or am I imagining things?
Posted by: 7even

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/12/10 11:24 PM

Originally Posted By: mah115


BTW, the Ivory Feel keys seem to have changed, but I'm not sure. I seem to remember that on the HP-207 I tested two years ago the keys felt more like very fine sandpaper or unglazed porcelain, but on the NX they're more like polished wood (which I prefer). Has anyone else noticed that, or am I imagining things?


Yeah to me they do seem a little smoother than on the 700GX
Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/13/10 03:01 AM

I also believe roland has changed the ivory-feel keys. Might be their answer to that key-wear-issue.
The sound-focus-feature reduces the stereo width and does some compression/eq-ing. There are different sound-focus types you can choose between (mid-boost, enhancer and some "piano types"). I was not able to achieve the same effect by only using eq, compression and reducing the stereowidth manually. What I don't like is, that using sound-focus makes some sounds noisy. This happens to the e-pianos, when speaker-simulation is off, for example.
Btw., you can control the effects with the control sliders, so the missing mfx-knobs don't seem to be a big problem.
Posted by: Martin C. Doege

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/13/10 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: kishonti
Originally Posted By: Qbert
Originally Posted By: mah115
Received my NX today; and I love it.
I paid $2099 for it at RMC Audio Direct


That's sound not only unbelievable but also frustrating to me. Here in Italy the price is around 2.300/2.400 euro (more than 3.000 USD).

thomann.de price isn't different

frown



The value added tax (19-25%) explains most of the difference. The sales tax in US is much lower and most online purchases are not taxed.


I think it's also because the market for used instruments is more lively in the US than in Europe, so stores have to compete with people trading marginally outdated models at eBay and Craigslist. As soon as a new model is introduced, there's quite a bit of market activity in the US, with some people getting the latest model and selling the one they have, which starts a cascade down the market as everyone upgrades to a model which is slightly better/newer than what they had before. That cycle then repeats every half year or so when there's a new iteration released, just as it is with e.g. new Apple laptops or iPods.

I don't quite see the same thing happen in Europe. In the US, I'd have unloaded the P-85 for a good price when the P-95 came out and gotten that instead, but in Germany the market isn't active enough to start that chain reaction of upgrades. Also, I'd say there's a larger percentage of the population in the US playing an instrument as a hobby than in Europe, so the market of potential buyers/sellers is smaller over here, meaning that stores can demand higher prices because there's less competition. And higher prices keep the market small, so it's self-perpetuating.

And lastly tariffs on imported goods from China are probably higher in the EU than in the US.

Martin
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/13/10 10:19 AM

Originally Posted By: DocSnyder
I was not able to achieve the same effect by only using eq, compression and reducing the stereowidth manually. What I don't like is, that using sound-focus makes some sounds noisy. This happens to the e-pianos, when speaker-simulation is off, for example.

If the e-piano uses distortion, this is essentially gain - which raises the noise floor - followed by a clipping circuit. A speaker simulator is a complex low pass filter. If you turn off this filter and then further compress the distorted e-piano with the sound focus feature you've brought the high frequency noise floor even higher. To operate it in this mode you probably need a noise gate somewhere near the end of the effects chain.
Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/13/10 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: DocSnyder
I was not able to achieve the same effect by only using eq, compression and reducing the stereowidth manually. What I don't like is, that using sound-focus makes some sounds noisy. This happens to the e-pianos, when speaker-simulation is off, for example.

If the e-piano uses distortion, this is essentially gain - which raises the noise floor - followed by a clipping circuit. A speaker simulator is a complex low pass filter. If you turn off this filter and then further compress the distorted e-piano with the sound focus feature you've brought the high frequency noise floor even higher.

That makes sense, dewster. It's no problem anyway, I'm just having fun turning all those knobs of this nice instrument smile
Posted by: ACABRITA

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/14/10 06:30 AM

RD-700NX
ANOTHER TRYOUT RECORDING WITH BRILLIANT GRAND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIpp-SL030
Posted by: 10fingers

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/14/10 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: ACABRITA
RD-700NX
ANOTHER TRYOUT RECORDING WITH BRILLIANT GRAND


Thanks for that, Acabrita - I enjoyed your improvisatory style. I would also love to hear that piece using a mellower tone! (How about it?)
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/15/10 06:42 PM

Be interested in a side by side hand's on comparison with KAWAI MP10 and ... V-Piano.

any one?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/15/10 06:58 PM

B. Michels, may I ask where you are based in Belgium?

Perhaps you would like to consider play testing these instruments for yourself at a Kawai/Roland dealer?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/15/10 07:28 PM

I am in brussels
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/15/10 07:40 PM

B. Michels,

Pianos Maene appear to stock most - if not all - models from the major brands, including both the Kawai MP10 and Roland V-Piano.

http://www.maene.be

Kind regards,
James
Posted by: Musical Dan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/16/10 05:43 AM

According to the manual there are different sound focus effect types you can choose:

Piano Type1
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch, and also reduces the sense of stereo, allowing your
sound to be more prominent in the band’s overall mix.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

Piano Type2
Reduces the sense of stereo.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

E. Piano Type
Changes the sound from soft to strikingly unique.
This parameter is effective only with respect to certain SuperNATURAL E. Piano tones.

Sound Lift
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch.

Enhancer
Controls the harmonic content of the upper range, making your sound more prominent.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.

Mid Boost
Boosts the mid-range frequencies.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/16/10 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Musical Dan
Piano Type1
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch, and also reduces the sense of stereo, allowing your sound to be more prominent in the band’s overall mix. This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

All evidence points to this being the one mah115 had turned up to 11 on the sound clip.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/16/10 04:46 PM

Here's a nice video of the RD700NX in action. Great sounding piano. Just as good as my GXF! wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Mg2zPJBM&feature=related
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/16/10 04:54 PM

For any RD700GX owners who haven't upgraded with the K-RD700GX1 SuperNATURAL card yet, this ought to motivate you! smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSr1onqpEZk&translated=1
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/16/10 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
For any RD700GX owners who haven't upgraded with the K-RD700GX1 SuperNATURAL card yet, this ought to motivate you! smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSr1onqpEZk&translated=1


Wow, that certainly demonstrates the improvement - night and day in my estimation.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Wow, that certainly demonstrates the improvement - night and day in my estimation.

Not that I hate the SN sound or anything, but I've listened to other videos where the difference is less pronounced. Not sure what's going on there, it seems the stereo image of the non SN piano is quite a bit narrower, more mono. And the audio quality in the video doesn't seem the best.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 07:21 AM

I think there is a significant difference tonally between non SN and SN. But I guess you could actually prefer non SN if that particular sound rings your bell (I quite like the Superior Grand on the GX) but you would have to tolerate the issues that SN was designed to address such as looping, audible velocity switches etc. But SN is also about playing, not just listening. The connection between keys and sound is very good - not V-Piano territory - but very good nonetheless and in this respect it is quite a bit better than the non SN voices.

Steve
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 08:34 AM

The above video makes them sound like night and day, but in this one the difference is much more subtle:



The tone seems largely the same, though he does seem to have more control over the dynamics with the SN voice. I guess he's playing a lot of notes rather quickly with little variation in touch, which doesn't showcase the SN advantages all that well.

Is there something going on between these videos in terms of which presets they are actually comparing?

In the Polish video,
- SN -
"One Touch" = off
"Expansion" = A
"Tone Select" = piano
- non-SN -
"One Touch" = off
"Expansion" = off
"Tone Select" = piano

In the Expressive vs SuperNatural Grand video,
- SN -
"One Touch" = piano
"Expansion" = A
"Tone Select" = piano
- non-SN -
"One Touch" = piano
"Expansion" = off
"Tone Select" = piano

Why is the "One Touch" always "off" in the first video and always "piano" in the second?

Also, the function buttons under the screen are always off in the first video and always lit in the second video, does this mean anything?
Posted by: CyberGene

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 09:05 AM

I am not sure if I can judge from the low quality of the video above but I notice that on SN piano sound, there is some kind of filter applied which makes the fortissimos sound way too bright, as if a selective EQ is applied depending on the dynamics. I've noticed that also on the mp3 demo for FP7f posted in another thread.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 09:57 AM

It is very frustrating that the comparisons seem to be between Expressive Grand (non SN) and SN Piano 1 - which I've often said is a kind of SN'd Expressive Grand.

I believe Expressive Grand was unique to the RD-700GX. Everyone has their own idea of what they like in a piano sound but I don't like Expressive Grand; it is very prone to a kind of thinnish metallic twanging sound at velocities that are unnaturally low...this can be addressed to some extent by altering the touch curve. SN Piano 1 is blessed/cursed with a similar character. I've probably exaggerated the problem just so it is less taxing to explain because in reality there is a lot of subtlety in the Roland sound.

A better comparison would have been the GX's Superior Grand against SN Piano 4 or maybe 2. SN 3 is a brighter version of 2/4...these are all significantly different to SN 1. Whilst there is still a degree of this too-bright metallic edge in a couple of clusters of notes in the midrange on SN 4 this can be very effectively dealt with by changing the touch offset to cause this behaviour to be introduced at more appropriate velocities.

Do not judge SN by the exclusive use of SN 1 (on the RD-700GX at least)...SN 4 is a much better balanced and more versatile instrument. The GX is one of those rare pianos where the better piano sounds are certainly not the fire-up defaults...and these are the ones doing the rounds on all the internet comparisons unfortunately.

By the way, the bass on all the SN pianos just blows the stock GX pianos away...literally night and day.

Steve
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
The above video makes them sound like night and day, but in this one the difference is much more subtle:



Why is the "One Touch" always "off" in the first video and always "piano" in the second?

Also, the function buttons under the screen are always off in the first video and always lit in the second video, does this mean anything?

Dewster, I can attest first hand, the difference you heard in the video I posted between SN and non-SN is the same in person. I was practicing the other day, and for kicks right in the middle of a solo, switched it over to the Expressive and Superior Grands, and my wife was like 'what happened'? I told her I just switched off the SN.

As for the One Touch you asked about, on the GX there are buttons for Expansion slots, and the guy in the video is pushing the Expansion A button because it's faster to hit that than to scroll through the One Touch menu where he'd have to go from SN pianos to Expressive Grand, Superior Grand, Ultimate Grand, then back to the SN Grand Piano 1. See what I mean. When you go from an SN piano to the standard grands, the Expansion slot light goes off, and conversely the other way. That's all that's about, he just wanted to go from SN to non-SN faster so as to make the demo easier to differentiate.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 11:28 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace

Do not judge SN by the exclusive use of SN 1 (on the RD-700GX at least)...SN 4 is a much better balanced and more versatile instrument. The GX is one of those rare pianos where the better piano sounds are certainly not the fire-up defaults...and these are the ones doing the rounds on all the internet comparisons unfortunately.

By the way, the bass on all the SN pianos just blows the stock GX pianos away...literally night and day.

Steve

Fully agree. The best SN pianos to me are the Grand Piano 2 which I use for Jazz, and Grand Piano 4 which I use for classical, and pretty much most other kinds of music I play.

The bass notes on the SN pianos are just beautiful. So realistic in decay and so much guts.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 04:27 PM

Has anyone confirmed yet whether Roland has fixed the ivory key wear issue with the NX?
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 05:13 PM

Not confirmed yet because it is too early to say for sure. However, I noticed something yesterday while in a Guitar Center. I went there to compare the action on my NX to a store model. It has been a rough couple weeks breaking in my new NX keyboard, but the stiff tension has lessened quite a bit. The store NX had no visible wear on its keys. The V-Piano keys nearby had noticeable wear. I thought these two products are supposed to have the same keyboard? Maybe they are different. Maybe the newer V-Piano keyboards are better than the one on this store model?
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 05:23 PM

Well, could it be that the store NX model isn't so well used yet, since it was barely put out for display? The other thread about HP307 key scratches also concerned me, since it supposedly has the same keys as the NX.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/17/10 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Dewster, I can attest first hand, the difference you heard in the video I posted between SN and non-SN is the same in person.

Oh, SN sounds nice to me (so far without actually owning it yet), I was just commenting on how it fares compared to a conventionally looped sample set seems to depend on how you play it, what you compare it to, and perhaps the audio quality of the video.

Much thanks to you and Steve for your explanations / clarifications!

Now if our NXC would just ship already...
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/18/10 04:35 AM

Has someone compared sound and action with HP 307? Are they really the same?
TY
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/18/10 11:59 PM

Just spent 3 hours at Guitar Center in front of the NX. Lovely tone and heavenly touch... I couldn't resist the urge and just bought it outright. I could have gotten it from RMC and get a good discount, but waiting be damn!!

So far, the keys feel more... glossy then that of the V-Piano they also have displayed, which is very worn down, with visible loss of its ivory material. And according to this link, Roland seems to have caught up with the ivory key wear issue, and have started using new coating for the keys:

http://www.rolandforums.co.uk/forums/viewthread/1487/#3698

Let's keep our fingers crossed that this indeed means the end of the problem.

Btw, any idea how to creatively mount a music rack on this bad boy?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 09:44 AM

Congrats Ohtello! I think you did the right thing. We're playing the who knows how long waiting game, with two emails now unanswered by RMC which is making me a little nervous as the charge is already on the card (though to be fair they did answer the two emails before that). They're likely deluged this time of year. I hate shopping anywhere for anything in December, and it gets pretty slow down at the post as well.

Nice to see many reports of the ivory feel seeming different and less porous. If you come up with a solution to the mystery of the missing music rack fiasco please let us know.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 12:24 PM

I am going to try to get a price match this coming week with GC with the price from RMC. They offer a 30 days lowest price guarantee.

As far as the music rack goes, I am thinking that I will just get a regular music stand for now... What a bad omission on Roland's part...
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Congrats Ohtello! I think you did the right thing. We're playing the who knows how long waiting game, with two emails now unanswered by RMC which is making me a little nervous as the charge is already on the card (though to be fair they did answer the two emails before that). They're likely deluged this time of year. I hate shopping anywhere for anything in December, and it gets pretty slow down at the post as well.

Nice to see many reports of the ivory feel seeming different and less porous. If you come up with a solution to the mystery of the missing music rack fiasco please let us know.

I've been lurking for a while, but this finally made me post. I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything. I shot them an email a few days back, and they replied they would be in mid December, but right now it looks like I'll be lucky to get it before Christmas...

Originally Posted By: Othello
I am going to try to get a price match this coming week with GC with the price from RMC. They offer a 30 days lowest price guarantee.

As far as the music rack goes, I am thinking that I will just get a regular music stand for now... What a bad omission on Roland's part...

Let me know how this goes, I've got half a mind to try the same thing, but I thought the price matching only works for advertised prices...
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Shing
I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything. I shot them an email a few days back, and they replied they would be in mid December, but right now it looks like I'll be lucky to get it before Christmas...

Almost identical situation here. We ordered our NXC on Dec 8th, and erik@rmcaudio.com told us mid-month for more in-stock. Emailed him early Friday and no response yet, sent general email to the company yesterday and no response yet. I hope this ends well and soon. Good thing it isn't a present.

Have you ordered anything from RMC in the past? If so, how did that go?
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 02:27 PM

There is another online store called West LA Music here that offers the model for 2399.99, a price against which I have gotten my price match:

http://shop.westlamusic.com/browse.cfm/roland-stage-piano/4,1961.html

Free shipping, and if you are from a state outside of CA, you pay no sales tax!
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 02:30 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Shing
I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything. I shot them an email a few days back, and they replied they would be in mid December, but right now it looks like I'll be lucky to get it before Christmas...

Almost identical situation here. We ordered our NXC on Dec 8th, and erik@rmcaudio.com told us mid-month for more in-stock. Emailed him early Friday and no response yet, sent general email to the company yesterday and no response yet. I hope this ends well and soon. Good thing it isn't a present.

Have you ordered anything from RMC in the past? If so, how did that go?

I haven't, but I did do some research about them and didn't find anything bad.

I just want my new piano D:
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 03:20 PM

I have ordered other products from RMC Audio and received excellent service. They offer very low prices, but sometimes you must wait weeks for an item to be delivered. If you are not in a rush, you can save a lot.

West LA Music is not familiar to me. Since they have a web page with a discounted price for the NX, their price might be used with other online stores to obtain a lower, competitive price. Some stores require their competitor to actually have the product in stock, which could be a problem. I doubt that WLAM has the NX in stock, because shipping began just a few weeks ago, but check with them and find out. There are many stores now which have the NX in their inventory for $2,599 because the supply is catching up with initial demand.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 05:16 PM

Well, regardless of whether they have them in stock or not, one can just use their price to do a match at the GC if he seeks to have the piano now.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 06:10 PM

As with most online stores, per GC policy, the item must be in stock by the competing dealer.

"GuitarCenter.com guarantees your satisfaction. If at any time within 30 days of your purchase from us, you find the identical item in stock and advertised by an authorized dealer at a price lower than what you paid, Guitar Center will fully protect you. "
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/19/10 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
I have ordered other products from RMC Audio and received excellent service. They offer very low prices, but sometimes you must wait weeks for an item to be delivered. If you are not in a rush, you can save a lot.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease ClassicalMastery! Their price can't be beat so if they come through, even eventually, I'll be singing their praises.
Posted by: Greg Curtis

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 08:44 AM

When I bought my NX from Sweetwater I also ordered the KSG8 stand which I really like alot. They also sell an upper rack for this stand which I also bought. Its made for a second piano so its pretty wide. I made a thick lexan shelf for the upper rack & rest my music & laptop on it & it works out fine as it tilts up & down. Clamped on a Mighty Brite light & I'm ready to go. Happy with this solution.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Shing
I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything.

Shing, we just got an email saying ours will ship today. No tracking number yet though. Like an idiot, I didn't set up an account at RMC before I made the order, so I can't check the order status without pestering someone in sales.

[EDIT] Erik @ RMC sent tracking numbers, it may arrive Thursday...
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 01:13 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Shing
I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything.

Shing, we just got an email saying ours will ship today. No tracking number yet though. Like an idiot, I didn't set up an account at RMC before I made the order, so I can't check the order status without pestering someone in sales.

Congrats again Dewster. I'm really excited for you and your wife. I really believe you will be very happy with the RD700NX first and foremost as a digital piano. Every time I play my RD700GXF after playing another digital piano, I just grin ear to ear with how much I love playing my GXF as a piano, especially with the addition of the RPU-3. It's just a really really great play digital piano, and the RD700NX is yet a small but nice step forward vs. the RD700GXF. I may yet end up with an RD700NX sometime next year...who knows!
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 02:06 PM

Good luck Dewster! We await your conclusions...

Steve
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Shing
I also ordered an RD-700NX from RMC 10 days ago, but they've yet to tell me anything.

Shing, we just got an email saying ours will ship today. No tracking number yet though. Like an idiot, I didn't set up an account at RMC before I made the order, so I can't check the order status without pestering someone in sales.


Congrats! But no such luck for me =/

Hopefully it will also ship for me by the end of today.
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 03:03 PM

Scratch that, I just called in and they said that they had shipped mine also =)
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/10 10:33 PM

So I went into GC today with the RMC quote of $2099.00, expecting to be turned down. But through some sly haggling and bargaining, I was able to get them to price match it at $2200. While I still have to pay sales tax, which will still come out to be $2400, the manager threw in a keyboard amp (Roland KC 150) with a $100 discount, a free music stand, a music stand lamp. At the end, I ended up paying a hundred dollars more than my previous receipt, but I walked out with a sweet amp and a bunch of freebies. Sure, I could get everything online for a bit cheaper. But the good salesmanship that the manager showed me made me believe that they deserve all of my business, now and future.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/21/10 01:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Othello
Sure, I could get everything online for a bit cheaper. But the good salesmanship that the manager showed me made me believe that they deserve all of my business, now and future.

Othello, it sounds like you got quite a bargain! Congrats!!

We bought flooring for our kitchen today (painful remodel). I could have gotten it a bit cheaper on-line, but I could actually see the product I was looking for at a local shop, the delivery was free (with me picking it up at the store), the delivery time very short (Tuesday), and the owner was super helpful with suggestions for installation. I like the pressure the internet exerts on prices, but where will we all be when these local shops finally succumb to the seeming inevitable?

Full disclosure, I haven't tried an NX in-town or anywhere - we're buying ours sight unseen. Not that that excuses my behavior.
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/21/10 02:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Othello
So I went into GC today with the RMC quote of $2099.00, expecting to be turned down. But through some sly haggling and bargaining, I was able to get them to price match it at $2200. While I still have to pay sales tax, which will still come out to be $2400, the manager threw in a keyboard amp (Roland KC 150) with a $100 discount, a free music stand, a music stand lamp. At the end, I ended up paying a hundred dollars more than my previous receipt, but I walked out with a sweet amp and a bunch of freebies. Sure, I could get everything online for a bit cheaper. But the good salesmanship that the manager showed me made me believe that they deserve all of my business, now and future.


This is interesting...I had quite the opposite experience with Guitar Center. I had been eyeing the RD-700GX for quite some time, and had patiently waited for their Black Friday sale, where they were giving everything in the store 15% off.

On their website, they were advertising the RD-700GX package (piano, bench, and stand) for $2199, and with the 15% discount, I would be able to get everything for $1869. I went into the store to pick everything up, but unfortunately they only had the beat up floor model, so the sales guy placed an online order for me, but the website said they were out of stock of the model, so I was told it would be 2-4 weeks. This was all okay with me at the time.

A few days later, I get an email saying all my stuff had been backordered, but in addition to the GX, bench, and stand, a NX had also been backordered. I called in to find out what had happened, and after being put on hold for 30 minutes, a manager told me that the GX line was being discontinued, that they wouldn't be able to fulfill my order for the GX package, and that in return for my patience, they would let me have the NX for the original price that I paid of $1869 + tax. The guy canceled by GX package order and said he would call me back once they got the NX's to place another order for me, and of course I said it was all fine and dandy.

Unfortunately, he never called back, even after I saw the NXs listed on their website. It seems like someone messed up big time, and knowing that I'd have no way of getting back in contact with the manager who said he would give me this deal, just decided to let me go. I also noticed that they raised the price on the GX package back up to $2599 (and its still out of stock), presumably to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

I'm still slightly bitter from being left out in the cold like that, but luckily I found RMC Audio, and it seems like my new NX is on its way, so I'm still happy =)
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/21/10 03:27 AM

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with GC. It seems difficult that some deal made over the phone in a few weeks can be honored. I would feel more confident when it's in writing.

When I said "sly haggling and bargaining," I meant that I really pulled their whiskers. I just told them that I really want to have enough money to get a keyboard amp (which I do), and given the steep discount RMC is offering me, I could return the NX to GC and get my piano cheap. I simply just asked them if they can do something for me, since I really want to support local workers (which I do). At that point, the manager had two choices: give me the price match and make the sales, or nothing at all. All in all, the bargain was done in a respectful manner, though not without some fast talking from the manager's part. I played it cool, while being upfront that I wanted to give them the business if they would work with me. And in the end, we both walked away winners smile
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 11:04 AM

So dewster, since you seem to be the authority on digital pianos on this forum, what do you think?

For some reason FedEx decided to deliver mine at 8:00 AM this morning, when I was still fast asleep, and now I'll have to wait until tomorrow mad mad
Posted by: stumbler

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 11:30 AM

I want to thank you all.

Looking to replace an aging Kurzweil RG200, I found this forum. You guys are great, lots of insightful comments.

In particular, someone pointed out that you can get similar quality with a stage piano as a home piano, especially if like me you play mostly with headphones.

I bought a RD-700NX yesterday. So far it seems to be adjusting to its new home quite well, though it is demanding attention at frequent intervals---it kept me up a bit late lastnight. Perhaps it has a bit of separation anxiety. It misses the warehouse, and isn't used to being outside of its comfy box.
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 07:18 PM

stumbler, any thoughts on the piano? I look forward to dewster's review, but he seems to have disappeared...it must be the piano...
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 08:47 PM

Finally got time with the NX over at GC today. I have to say the 1st SN piano sounded very nice and the action felt really good. The other two pianos did not sound so good to me, but there were more things to like about the NX than not.

I have yet to get my hands on the MP10, but the NX just put Roland back in the picture for me.

Can someone summarize the USB recording/playback capabilities and limitations of the NX?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Shing
... he seems to have disappeared...it must be the piano...

A bunch of stuff going on today, too little of it musically related. Shing, sorry FedEx arrived too early for yours, what a bummer! I look forward to a report of your experience with it.

The NX arrived in a fairly beat up box (large tear looked like someone kicked it in) and the pedal unit came in a separate box. The pedal unit was actually double boxed, something I wish they'd done for the NX. I took a lot of pictures before I unboxed it just in case I needed to file a claim with FedEx, but it turned out the NX was fine (though I really don't appreciate having that kind of stress associated with a major purchase).

I took a DMM to the pedal unit, all three of the pedals are capable of proportional control, which is a surprise. It's pretty well made and rather heavy, with rubber strips riveted to the bottom.

Put it up on the stand and hooked it up to the amp / speakers. My wife says the keys are a little too springy compared to her Young Chang, and I feel this too, the keys on the YC kind of "give up" after you play them, rather than fight you afterward. She likes the piano and organ, and the first harpsichord sounds pretty good to me with key up pick samples. I turned up the pedal noise on the SN piano and the "scraping" sound the SOS dude was talking about wasn't evident. Voice selection is much easier compared to our old SL-880 pro & Motif Rack which is a plus. Interface I think is a bit cryptic compared to the GX when it comes to layers (I couldn't easily figure out how to edit the upper organ drawbars, on the GX it was simple). I need to listen to it through headphones and read the manual while playing with it before I pass any kind of judgment.

The white keys look like fake ivory, and the black are matte, though neither is overly pronounced. The fake escapement feel is actually better done than I imagined it might be, a slight resistance near the bottom of the key travel.

I will definitely do a DPBSD post on each of the three pianos, and perhaps an unboxing pictorial soon.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 09:37 PM

Congrats, Dewster! Hope you like the NX. I am really digging the Studio Grand 1 sound.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/22/10 09:50 PM

The keys on my NX are still giving me a battle with their heavy spring tension, though they have loosened quite a bit since I received the NX 3 weeks ago. I will have to pound them hard for a while yet to (hopefully) get them to react they way they should. Typical factory fresh Roland keyboard.

I hate FedEx. Your description has me worried as usual about them. On Friday I have another more expensive instrument being delivered. I don't know if it will be double boxed. My NX arrived double boxed from Sweetwater. UPS delivered it in perfect condition.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 12:22 PM

Roland RD-700NX Unboxing

Our Roland RD-700NXC (RD-700NX + RPU-3) arrived via FedEx yesterday afternoon, I thought people might be interested in seeing some pix of the unboxing ceremony. So "unboxing day" came before Boxing Day (bad joke). We bought it from RMC Audio for $2199 USD, free shipping, no tax.


Figure 1. Here's the RD-700NX box sitting in our foyer, looking rather the worse for wear. I really would have appreciated a double boxing here as the cardboard is not the thickest. I'm probably a freak, but I like to store my shipping cartons for when we move or resell an item, but this one is just barely worth keeping.


Figure 2. A close-up of the huge (kicked in?) tear, which is right over the right side keys / control area. Seeing it made my heart skip a beat as I was imagining the worst.


Figure 3. The main box opened, lots of crinkled paper on top.


Figure 4. Crinkled paper removed, you can see the Styrofoam end caps and the middle cardboard support surround. The large tear is at the upper left. The top of the cardboard support simply lifts out.


Figure 5. RD-700NX removed from the box, still sporting the foam sheet blanket and Styrofoam end caps.


Figure 6. A view of the inside of the box. The cardboard support surround contains the manual and the DP-10 sustain pedal.


Figure 7. Everything (that I could easily find) that was contained in the box. The RD, manual, and unboxed DP-10 pedal with box. I couldn't find a power cord in the box, luckily it takes a standard IEC C13 and I had a spare laying around.


Figure 8. Out with the old, in with the new. Here is the RD-700NX on our Quik-Lok W550 stand where the StudioLogic SL-880 used to sit. The RPU-3 triple foot pedal and Quik-Lok BZ-7 stool are below. The speakers will be replaced with small sats and a sub whenever I get past most of the house renovation. There is a nice Philips SPP1591WA power blocking surge protector behind the left speaker (can't be too careful with expensive electronics).
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 12:47 PM

Glad the machine didn't get broken during that box damage. I'd send the pictures to the company i'd bought it from myself. That's probably just a result of bad packing in the truck.

So. Is it everything you wanted it to be?


Regards. Rimmer
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 12:52 PM

Roland RPU-3 Unboxing

And here is a short unboxing of the Roland RPU-3 three pedal unit that shipped with our Roland RD-700NX.


Figure 1. The RPU-3 actually came double boxed, I'm skipping over that unboxing and going straight to the inner product box, which as you can see is in great shape.


Figure 2. Box opened, top cardboard and instruction sheet removed. Foam padding around the sides with the RPU-3 in a plastic bag.


Figure 3. The RPU-3 in repose, thinking outside the box.


Figure 4. The underside of the RPU-3, heavy sheet steel with five anti-skid rubber strips. I imagine the nine black screws hold it together (thinking ahead for when it inevitably starts squeaking).


Figure 5. Three 1/4" TRS plugs on the end of the cord. I put a DMM on them and it appears that all three pedals are identical and can do proportional control. This was a surprise, I was expecting one or two of them to be simple switches. Molded into a piece of rubber that keeps the three wires from splitting apart are the letters "R C L" (upon which my EE brain thought "resistance, capacitance, inductance") that match up to similarly labeled jacks on the back of the RD-700NX, so all the connection guesswork is eliminated. It's a solid unit.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 01:24 PM

Dewster, are you going to do a photo reveal of your face as you start to discover whether the RD meets your needs/expectations?

Starts smiling, hopeful, expectant...like a little boy on Christmas morning. Develops furrowed brow as if the little boy finds his main present is squashy (usually means clothes - boring!!). Furrowed brow turns to curled lip when some minor annoyance dominates his troubled thoughts (they trimmed the keys with red felt - RED!! Just so 2008. This is as bad as not fitting 2 cent's worth of commonly available, off the shelf flash memory and taunting us with built-in obsolescence - these corporate types are milking us all over again). Final picture of our Dewster, brick in hand, marching to Roland HQ to smash the CEO's skull in.

On the other hand, it might be a smiling face throughout!

Hope you love your new piano Dewster!

Steve
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 01:38 PM

Dewster I'm really excited for you man. Just looking at your pictures, I got really giddy. Although the RD700NX didn't prove to be the upgrade to my RD700GXF that I was hoping for, (this is in no way a knock on the RD700NX, rather a nod to how great the RD700GXF is) it, the RD700NX, is the cream of the crop in the stage piano world. If Roland really won't be replacing the RD700 series anytime soon, I may upgrade to the RD700NX in the summer. Please let me know your thoughts on how you like the RPU-3. I think the RPU-3 compliments the RD700GXF/NX really well, and I was impressed with how well it worked.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 01:42 PM

Thank you for those photos, dewster. They illustrate the importance of retailers either opening the factory box to add packing material, or enclosing the factory box in a second, larger box. Only the larger stores can afford the second option.

If RMC had not added material to the box, your NX would have arrived damaged. I learned this all too well when I ordered an 88 key synth from another popular online store years ago. The box had no significant damage but the front of the keyboard had minor damage. By the way, when I ordered a smaller item from RMC they placed it in a larger protective box.

What do you plan to do with the NX factory box? Are you going to keep it for a while and then dispose of it? The "kicked in" portion looks like the end of a forklift hit that area of the box. I once had a non-music equipment item delivered with a smashed-in box as in your photo. The item inside sustained damage.

Your choice of stands is perfect. How stable is that stand? I really like the stability of my new Roland KS-G8. The only thing I don't like about it is the rear piping at the floor level gets in the way of a music stand.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
If Roland really won't be replacing the RD700 series anytime soon, I may upgrade to the RD700NX in the summer.
The RD-700 series won't be replaced soon, but don't buy anything now. For all we know Roland could release the V-Piano 2 with Extra SuperNATURAL sound.

Roland 2011 surprises
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
If RMC had not added material to the box, your NX would have arrived damaged.

It does seem like RMC added the crumpled paper, though the banding was intact so if they added it they must have done the banding too afterward.

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
What do you plan to do with the NX factory box?

Up in the attic where the other boxes can keep it company. Extra fuel in case we have a house fire.

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
Your choice of stands is perfect. How stable is that stand?

It's a tank, folds up quickly to a fairly small size, and is quite sturdy. It's designed to hold PA speakers and large mixers, but holds a keyboard nicely. Lots of legroom, plenty of options with the pivoting legs and bolt-on accessories. The stool is a bit tippy for youngsters, but works well for adults and is comfortable and also folds up small.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 03:11 PM

.
Posted by: Shing

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 03:47 PM

Congrats dewster!

I just got mine about 45 minutes ago, and after setting it up and fiddling with it a bit, I found the Supernatural Pianos to be a bit...muddy and muffled. This may be because I have really poor quality monitors, but they don't seem quite up to the standard that I hear from youtube demos. It's almost as if the harmonics are louder than they should be, and are obscuring the notes played somewhat. I can definitely tell its a dramatic upgrade from my old FP-8 though.

Turning up the Tone Character setting to +2 helped a little but, but it still isn't quite the quality sound that I had expected. Did anyone else find this to be an issue?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 05:05 PM

Congrats dewster, and thank you for posting the unboxing pics!

Now the question surely on everyone's lips - how is the harpsichord?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: stumbler

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 06:50 PM

Compared to what I'm used to the NX is marvelous. I have a lot more control of the dynamics than I am used to.
The action feels a lot more like a piano. The sound is a lot more realistic too.

Need to get used to the continuous damper pedal. I'm used to a sustain that doesn't kick in quite so soon. If I play with it partially depressed the sound quality dives after a while---I think that was what was happening. I'm getting used to it now, haven't fallen into that trap once today.

Action has more inertia than I'm used to, but not as much as a concert grand I tried once. Need to ration my playing for a while so I don't screw up my wrists again.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 07:01 PM

The NX has a few harpsichords. I also own the coveted Roland C-30 Digital Harpsichord. Although the NX cannot compete with the C-30, it has the best harpischords that I have heard on a digital piano. They are not as good as the C-30 of course, but they are very desirable.

One shortcoming I dislike is the inability to retain many system settings after powering off the NX. This is an inexcusable design deficiency. The NX is the fifth iteration in the RD-700 series. There is no good reason why these settings cannot be written to memory and saved across sessions. For example, I want a Light keyboard touch right now because as a factory new unit the NX key tension is too stiff until after the break-in period. I should not have to modify this setting every time I power on the NX. Similarly, I often assign the Tap Tempo feature to the S2 switch. Why should I have to do this after every power on? It makes no sense.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Shing
I just got mine about 45 minutes ago, and after setting it up and fiddling with it a bit, I found the Supernatural Pianos to be a bit...muddy and muffled. This may be because I have really poor quality monitors

Yes, they sound a bit muddy through our PA speakers (though the tweeters in them are definitely not optimally pointed). Through headphones they sound much better.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
... how is the harpsichord?

It's OK. It seems to be around the same quality as the one in our Yamaha P-120 - OK for practice but not recording. Key off samples make it realistic, but I can definitely hear looping, which I suppose means it's not SN. Bummer.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/23/10 11:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
The NX has a few harpsichords. I also own the coveted Roland C-30 Digital Harpsichord. Although the NX cannot compete with the C-30, it has the best harpischords that I have heard on a digital piano. They are not as good as the C-30 of course, but they are very desirable.

One shortcoming I dislike is the inability to retain many system settings after powering off the NX. This is an inexcusable design deficiency. The NX is the fifth iteration in the RD-700 series. There is no good reason why these settings cannot be written to memory and saved across sessions. For example, I want a Light keyboard touch right now because as a factory new unit the NX key tension is too stiff until after the break-in period. I should not have to modify this setting every time I power on the NX. Similarly, I often assign the Tap Tempo feature to the S2 switch. Why should I have to do this after every power on? It makes no sense.


Actually that was my initial impression, though in fact you can set individual key touch setting for each piano sound. When you do tone edit on a piano model and save it, it will be effective in all presets where the piano sound is employed. This implementation makes more sense to me, as not all piano sound needs the same key touch setting.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/24/10 09:55 AM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
I also own the coveted Roland C-30 Digital Harpsichord.

ClassicalMastery now you've got me jealous!

Do you hear looping at all on that? What are the positive organ sounds like, and are they useful? Could you perhaps reveal how much you paid for it?

Do you know if the harpsichords on the C-230 are as good sounding as those on the C-30?

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
Although the NX cannot compete with the C-30, it has the best harpischords that I have heard on a digital piano. They are not as good as the C-30 of course, but they are very desirable.

Could you elaborate some on the similarities / differences between the harpsichords on the C-30 and the NX?
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/24/10 12:28 PM

I don't feel qualified to answer the subjective audio questions. I am more a performer than a technical audio expert. However, I will say the C-30 harpsichord sounds are much more authentic and versatile than the NX, which is to be expected. I have never played the C-230. If your primary interest is harpsichord sounds, the C-30 is the better choice because it has additional dedicated nuances. Still, you can't go wrong with the C-230 as it is a fine unit. In the UK the C-230 sells for less than the C-30. It must somehow have fewer features than the C-30. Finding a C-230 in the USA is difficult. A dealer might have to order it.

When the C-30 was released they were selling at list price. They now can be purchased at a lower price. Expect to pay $4,000 for a new one. There are extremely few dealers in the USA that have the C-30 in stock. Dealers are aware of the instrument's elite status. Many of them routinely sell it for $5,000. They capture a large profit margin at this price. Then too there is not a great demand for the C-30. The best dealers sell about one C-30 per month.

A digital harpsichord is a better instrument than an acoustic harpsichord. It offers adjustable volume and something an acoustic does not have: dynamic sound. Roland has taken the harpsichord concept farther than the original acoustic instrument. Having seen what they have done with the C-30, it is only a matter of time before digital pianos go beyond what acoustic pianos can do. Pianos are more complex than harpsichords, so it is taking the digital piano builders much longer to model the instrument perfectly and add sophisticated features. Give them another 10 years or thereabout and few people will want an acoustic anymore. The maintenance, purchase cost, and everything else won't be worth the effort. By that same logic there is no point in paying $20,000 for an acoustic harpsichord when a $4,000 digital harpsichord does more and stays in tune.
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/24/10 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Shing
Congrats dewster!

I just got mine about 45 minutes ago, and after setting it up and fiddling with it a bit, I found the Supernatural Pianos to be a bit...muddy and muffled. This may be because I have really poor quality monitors, but they don't seem quite up to the standard that I hear from youtube demos. It's almost as if the harmonics are louder than they should be, and are obscuring the notes played somewhat. I can definitely tell its a dramatic upgrade from my old FP-8 though.

Turning up the Tone Character setting to +2 helped a little but, but it still isn't quite the quality sound that I had expected. Did anyone else find this to be an issue?


Try adjusting the key touch to the light setting. I found the same with the Fp-7f but it starts to open up when you adjust with the key touch.. Worth a go...!

Opening the lid a little helps too..
Regards.. Rimmer
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/26/10 10:52 AM

I've gone into shock ... I come home for the holidays fire up the computer and ...woah !!!!! Dewster's actually gone and done it !!!!!
Fantastic !!!!!
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/29/10 03:39 PM

I'm not sure what effect this guys is using other than some reverb, but this RD700GXF sounds exquisite. Not entirely on topic, but to my ears, most of the pianos on the RD700GXF and RD700NX sound nearly identical. Actually the guy in these videos has recorded numerous pieces on the RD700GXF with the various SN pianos as well as some stuff done through software like Synthology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj3m5KMJ02o
http://www.youtube.com/user/cubusdk#p/u/45/exuFxCaOX5o
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/30/10 05:40 PM

A little story time again folks. As you know I bought one of these last month but due to my very thin wallet I waited a little, the original one got sold so I ordered another one to the store.

Mine finally arrived and I went down to fetch it at the store. The clerk (and also owner of the store) had promised me the "best price" all the time and I got a wooping 30 dollar discount. Yay. I wasn't in the mood to haggle nor wait another month and a half to order from the US. The latter would have saved me 300 dollars I think, tax and shipping included. This was one expensive mother... I was just so taken aback by the clerks "best price" so I just rolled with it and thought 'screw this, I don't need money once I have the piano anyway' got the guy to at least give me a ride home. Packed it up, put it on the stand (which was thankfully included) and played it with headphones a bit, and was disappointed.

All this time I've been practicing on a Steinway Grand and since I was tired, a little moody and more or less ripped off, I must have thought it was the real thing. Turns out it really wasn't. Keys were much lighter and didn't have the "swinging hammer" sensation. The grip felt "rubbery", and worse yet, I couldn't dial in a single sound that sounded good under my fingers. Not at all what I tried back in the store when I decided to buy. Everything sounded muddy and unbalanced. The Steinway is way muddier sounding but you can hear every single wood grain through the wall of sound it produced. And the low keys was much stronger and boomy, yet clear as a bell.

Aghast, feeling really down now, I franticly pushed buttons and turned the dials. Nothing could save me from the horrible Roland sound pounding my ears. I took off the headphones and went to make some tea. Man what a crappy day.

Standing there in my kitchen watching water slowly turn to boil, my head was completely empty. Only then it occurred to me: I have been practicing on a Grand piano for two weeks straight, day in and day out. A Steinway Grand piano in a sound proof room on a stage perfectly calculated to make it sound beautiful. There is no way in hell another piano will sound as good as that. Pondering that I take the tea and sit down at the NX again (on an ikea fold-up chair cause the clerk didn't include a damn bench). Breathe in the scent of tea and hit the keys. It was the ridiculous Clav 2. I turn on a beat and goes into some sort of Stevie Wonder frenzy. It's pretty fun so I dial some more and other sounds pop in and hop around a bit. It's good. It's really good. At last I return to the Concert Grand and try a few chords -and I have to laugh out loud. No, it's not an acoustic Steinway Grand, but it's damn good for a digital piano!
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/31/10 04:23 AM

Haha, slept on it and came up with the perfect solution -and I'm so going to store clerk hell for it.

I'll keep it until my gig in 15 days, then return it for a full refund and buy the cheaper one from USA. It'll save me 300-400 dollars.

Cheers
Fred

/edit
And if I'm lucky they forget to add the total to shipping and I don't have to pay import duty. Which will save me a total whopping 1000 dollars. It has happened to me before on a very expensive guitar. Was so happy I danced all the way home and celebrated with champagne.
Posted by: hawgdriver

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/31/10 08:37 PM

I just got one of these bad boys for Christmas. I'm very, very impressed. I like it more the more I am acquainted with it.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 03:42 AM

Just had a revelation: Played around with Pianoteq on a friends laptop the other day and decided to try it out at home. Borrowed his laptop and plugged in the NX. I don't have speakers so that's the only way I could record something and sing at the same time. And... they sound very similar. Apart from feeling that I might have gone over my head with the NX when this could have been my practice setup for months with a much cheaper keyboard.

I know there is lots of threads about Pianoteq/Ivory etc and using a laptop, and though playing on the NX feels a lot "closer" to the sound. Have anyone compared the two if you put in into recording? Pianoteq is a little brighter overall but the effect of decay is very similar.
Posted by: CyberGene

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 04:19 AM

/* SARCASM_ON

It may be crappy but hey, it's not looped, you know... Because that's what's important for a digital piano. (Not that we can hear looping in other digital pianos but we can observe that in software, you know)

/* SARCASM_OFF
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 08:43 AM

If you can't hear looping in most DPs you need a doctor. In low to midrange notes it is absolutely blatant in my view.
Posted by: CyberGene

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 09:52 AM

It depends. It was clearly audible on my ex RD-700SX even when playing real stuff. However on my Kawai CA-63 it is so subtle that it's approaching the limit of being virtually inaudible.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 12:46 PM

Well kudos to Kawai then! You are right that it is very audible in the RD-700SX. I need to try a Kawai with UPHI, I really do.

Steve
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 03:05 PM

.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/05/11 03:57 PM

Great review Dave. I was anxious to get your take. I'm quite sure you would give the RD700GXF a very similar review. It's honestly astonishing how much better the GXF is over the GX thanks to the SN piano sounds. Just makes the GX more playable, more dynamic, and overall, just better as a piano. Add the RPU-3, and you've got a nice little digital piano set up. The RD700NX is a really nice piece of kit. Beautiful LCD screen and you're right, very intuitive layout.

Here are my thoughts on the RD300NX, without trying to off topic. If the RD300GX to the RD700GX is anything to go by, the RD300NX is bound to be much much more watered down, and far less capable than it's larger 700 series sibling. Not to knock the RD300GX because it's proven to be a great little light-weight gigging board, but it's not nearly as capable as the RD700GX(F).

- I think it'll have PHA II Ivory feel keys, not PHA III.
- I think it'll have a single SN piano, possibly a few based off the prime SN piano (like Mellow, Bright, etc.) then probably the Expressive Grand from the GX.
- I think it'll have a larger LCD screen, but not like the RD700NX.
- It'll probably have some SN EP sounds, and maybe the Sound Focus feature.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/06/11 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
.The RD-700 series won't be replaced soon, but don't buy anything now. For all we know Roland could release the V-Piano 2 with Extra SuperNATURAL sound.

Roland 2011 surprises

[/quote]


Where did you get this info about the release of a V-Piano 2 ?? I am dreaming of this, but unfortunately, I don't expect anything like this soon. So, any additional comment on this rumor will be welcomed.

thanks
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/06/11 06:05 PM

I went today with my piano teacher (and 2 AKG 240 mk2) to a very large reseller that had on display to try all the EP that we wanted to test:

- Kawai MP10
- Roland V-PIANO
- Roland RD700-NX
- YAmaha CVP 509
- YAMAHA Avantgrand n2

I came with the idea of buying the CVP509 because it has everything in one: Piano, Multiple sounds, and many many features to make piano more fun.

But... after 4 hours of test, we really did not like the keyboard of the CVP, nor the keyboard and sound on the Kawai, and did not get so much impress by the Avantgrand.

So... The winners, by far (for our taste) are the 2 Rolands. The V-Piano being very very slightly better than the RD-70O NX, but really the RD-700 NX at half the price of the V-Piano impressed us a lot.

So, my question is: If I take the V-Piano or, more likely the RD-700NX, is there a midi rack/module that I could plug in the V-Piano/RD-700 through Midi, and that can add to the Roland everything that the CVP509 or a TRyros has (additional sounds, arranger, rythmes, sampler, Accompaniment style, drums kits...).? A sort of Tyros4... RACK :-)

Thanks in advance for your advices
Posted by: hawgdriver

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 01:10 AM

Anyone had a problem with their wav recorder? I don't know if it's my memory stick, the recorder, or something else, but some of my recording go blank at random. Some files windows media player won't recognize, some are OK, some are OK for a bit and then go silent. Any ideas?
Posted by: f.locutus

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 03:20 AM

I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.

I hope it's a sporadic case.

Fabrizio
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 04:15 AM

Surely Yamaha makes something? Is there a motif or similar? In the "old" days they had the MU-90 and 100 that would have ticked a lot of your boxes; even had a rudimentary mixer onboard and ADCs to take mic/guitar/other line level sources and add effects at the same time as being a pretty elaborate (for its day) XG tone/rhythm generator.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 10:44 AM

2 Little questions:

- I find that the original RD-700's stand (KSG8) does not have enough stability. Can the bigger V-Piano 's stand be used with the RD-700 ?

- I tested the RD-700 with the Roland DS7 Bi-Amp monitors. I found them very good, but... (1) I read that they are discontinued by rolland ! Is it true ? What monitors you recommend ? (2) Will the DS8 be worth the increased price in term of quality ?


thanks
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 03:09 PM

Originally Posted By: f.locutus
I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.

I hope it's a sporadic case.

Fabrizio

Nope it's not. I have the same problem with my RD-700GXF. It must be be something with the SuperNATURAL piano, because when I switch over to the non-SN pianos it doesn't have that bazaar cut off. I tested the RD700NX when I briefly owned it, and it did the same thing. I have NO idea why the SN pianos do that. The V-Piano does not though. I checked it.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/07/11 05:50 PM

Question about headphone: I found that the internal headphone AMP of the RD-700 is not strong enough for my AKG 240 MK2/AKG271. I need to put volume all the way up to get the same volume that a V-Piano will provide at 50% volume.

--> Are some people using a Headphone AMP with their RD-700 ?

Or Will a more sensitive headphone solve the problem, but the AKG 240 are already quite efficient since they are OK with MP3 players. May be a Grado headphone ?
_________________________
Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever
Posted by: bames

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/08/11 06:11 PM

On youtube some people reported an issue with supernatural piano. Does your RD's behavig like that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_d2zKuBV2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNGiJjPEI4

Sorry for my bad english.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/08/11 10:22 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
.The RD-700 series won't be replaced soon, but don't buy anything now. For all we know Roland could release the V-Piano 2 with Extra SuperNATURAL sound.

Roland 2011 surprises


Where did you get this info about the release of a V-Piano 2 ?? I am dreaming of this, but unfortunately, I don't expect anything like this soon. So, any additional comment on this rumor will be welcomed.

thanks
This is no rumor. I wrote, "For all we know..." because sooner or later the V-Piano will be superseded. Ideally, there will be the V-Piano 2. But don't expect an upgraded model this soon.
Posted by: ClassicalMastery

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/08/11 10:27 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Question about headphone: I found that the internal headphone AMP of the RD-700 is not strong enough for my AKG 240 MK2/AKG271. I need to put volume all the way up to get the same volume that a V-Piano will provide at 50% volume.

--> Are some people using a Headphone AMP with their RD-700 ?

Or Will a more sensitive headphone solve the problem, but the AKG 240 are already quite efficient since they are OK with MP3 players. May be a Grado headphone ?
Most of the time I don't raise the volume level of my NX more than halfway with the headphones I am using.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/09/11 01:58 AM

Like I said over the KC forum, the headphone output of the 700NX is pretty hot.
When I was checking it out for the first time the other day I had my 240s. I couldn't turn the volume all the way up without it being pretty darn loud--at least to me. In comparison my CP5 isn't loud enough with the 240s, I could probably use a good 30% more headroom.
Posted by: stumbler

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/09/11 07:32 PM

I agree with Dave and Classical. Around 50% is loud enough on my 240s. I may vary a bit depending on which piano I am using, but at full volume I would expect to destroy my hearing with regular use.
Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/11/11 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: f.locutus
I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.

I hope it's a sporadic case.

Fabrizio

Nope it's not. I have the same problem with my RD-700GXF. It must be be something with the SuperNATURAL piano, because when I switch over to the non-SN pianos it doesn't have that bazaar cut off. I tested the RD700NX when I briefly owned it, and it did the same thing. I have NO idea why the SN pianos do that. The V-Piano does not though. I checked it.

I also noticed this and contacted Roland about it. They are trying to find a solution for this, they told me.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/14/11 02:24 PM

Has anyone tried out the 700NX yet??
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/14/11 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Has anyone tried out the 700NX yet??

I bought one from Sweetwater music back in November and returned it, but not because I didn't like it. Only because there was virtually no difference other than a small difference in the PHA II action on my RD700GXF vs the PHA III action on the RD700NX. It's a fabulous digital piano, with exceptional action and piano sounds. Coming from a GXF, there were no surprises though. I'd strongly recommend the RD700NX to anyone looking for great piano sounds and great action.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/15/11 06:16 PM

To 700NX owners:

Do your keys get "dirty" over time with regular playing?

My keys, especially the midrange ones, are getting a bit dirty. The dirt seems to form some kind of wood grain patterns on the keys, perhaps from the "moisture absorbent" nature of the keys themselves. I tried using a wrung wet towel to wipe them off but to no avail. Any idea or similar experience?
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/16/11 12:53 AM

Dewster,

Congrats on your RD-700NX buy.

Hope you can give a detailed review of the product.

Also, you were contemplating between the FP-7F (in-built speakers) and the RD-700NX (no speakers). What made you go for the latter. Were you able o compare the KEY actions and other features betwwen the two.

Would appreciate detailed reviews from others too. Either 7F or 700NX.

Brian
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/17/11 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Congrats on your RD-700NX buy.

Hope you can give a detailed review of the product.

Thanks, I hope to as soon as I can sort out my MIDI sequencer issues. I truly wish the NX had better MIDI => WAV rendering capability. All of this connectivity and no way to do anything it seems.

Originally Posted By: bsl100
Also, you were contemplating between the FP-7F (in-built speakers) and the RD-700NX (no speakers). What made you go for the latter. Were you able o compare the KEY actions and other features betwwen the two.

No, ordered the NX sight unseen based on some hands-on with the GX. If the 300NX was available at the time, or if the 7F were offered by RMC Audio, I might have considered those, but all the extra sounds in the 700NX were rather compelling, not sure I'd want anything less - though the weight and length are certainly something to consider if you move it about at all, and crappy internal speakers and a music rest would have been very welcome additions I would have certainly paid extra for.
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/18/11 04:27 AM

Hi, this thread is rather long and it has perhaps been mentioned somewhere already, but has the polyphony problem with the SN board been solved by Roland. (Annoying note stealing / cut-off when playing comfortably within the 128 notes polyphony limit) ?

If not - will the RD300NX show the same problems or will it have a newer revision of the SN implementation (guess not, but who knows) ?
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/18/11 05:03 AM

Can anyone comment on the rest of the sounds in the NX? Same as the GX?
Seems like the pianos have improved over the GX but what about the electric ones?
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/18/11 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Othello
To 700NX owners:

Do your keys get "dirty" over time with regular playing?

My keys, especially the midrange ones, are getting a bit dirty. The dirt seems to form some kind of wood grain patterns on the keys, perhaps from the "moisture absorbent" nature of the keys themselves. I tried using a wrung wet towel to wipe them off but to no avail. Any idea or similar experience?



Geez. Not that again. The 700NX hasn't been out long but it if the premature wear issue still exists, a few months of rigorous playing is going to start revealing it. Call for a warranty replacement while you can.
Posted by: HappyOnStage

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/18/11 07:29 PM

What a great thread. I'm in the market and have been doing a lot of reading and this thread helped a lot. For such new gear it's hard to find it on the floor to demo. Sam Ash and GC wouldn't open one and told me to play the fp-7 which is very similar. (I guess they both were having bad days). I have a Roland A-90ex which I love but is breaking - up to about 7 keys now and is close to retirement. It's served it's time. So I've been using a Yamaha KX-8 and running mainstage for about 6 months. I play every Sunday so I'm looking for both a stage piano and a controller.

The KX-8 is awful in a live environment. It's great if I'm laying down tracks in my home studio but the Key bed response and the latency issues when jamming with the band were enough for me to buy a real stage piano. Enter the 700NX.

I have read a lot of posts about all the new keys out today but the keybed feel and the Sound Focus Feature makes the 700nx a clear winner for me when comparing. When the band gets hot, the keys are the first to go in muddy waters so the fact that Roland is trying to accomodate us keyboarders in bands is awesome - even if it doesn't work......

I haven't seen a lot of posts of 700nx's in a live environment though which made me think of jumping into the thread. Also the teaser trailer by Roland is not very good either for asking you to invest $2.5k. Did you see the one posted by Sweetwater about the 300NX at NAMM? Ughh - I feel sorry for the keyboard. It's like catching a glimpse of a supermodel sittin' on the can with no make up on while having all the potential of a centerfold. I don't know if it's the camera or the amp to blame bit it doesn't do Roland justice. wouldn't even do Casio justice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVE7yVcf4Ls&feature=player_embedded

I have never bought anything so expensive without playing it first so I'm still very nervous about it but as with anything you buy, there are advantages and drawbacks to everything but all in all - the 700nx is getting superb feedback and wins for what I need it for. I will provide feedback on playing it live in later posts. The new axe is to arrive on Friday and hope to break the bottle over it on Sunday's set.

BAND SET UP
2 guitars (acoustic/electric), bass, drums, lead singer and 2 back up singers and KEYS.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/19/11 01:16 PM

I agree. That video of the RD300NX is a rather poor demonstration. Why are they performing Lady Gaga songs to demo a stage piano? This will be a nice cheaper alternative to the RD700NX, but for live use, I've been very disappointed with how the SuperNATURAL pianos cut through. They sound anemic in a mix. Through headphone and studio monitors, the SN pianos sound just amazing. It's too bad they lose their character on stage. Perhaps the RD700NX's Sound Focus can help. I'd like to hear one live.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/19/11 01:59 PM

.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/19/11 08:33 PM

Quote:
Did you see the one posted by Sweetwater about the 300NX at NAMM? Ughh - I feel sorry for the keyboard. It's like catching a glimpse of a supermodel sittin' on the can with no make up on while having all the potential of a centerfold. I don't know if it's the camera or the amp to blame bit it doesn't do Roland justice. wouldn't even do Casio justice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVE7yVcf4Ls&feature=player_embedded


That's so bad its good ..... thanks for the laugh grin
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/20/11 01:18 AM

I hope not... AFAIK, the "dirt" does not resemble the key wear problems on the V-Piano I saw in Guitar Center. The keys while getting dirty, remain smooth and not rough and grainy like the latter. Let's hope that there exist some key cleaning solution to get the dirt out without ridding the key gloss..
Posted by: JFP

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/20/11 05:40 AM

That video is a joke ;-) I couldn't even see it through to the end, it's pathetic. Lucky enough the guys on this forum will see through bad demonstrations like this and value the instrument on it's own. Anyone knows when the RD300NX will hit the shops, so we can expect some real user demo's on line ?
Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/20/11 01:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Othello
To 700NX owners:

Do your keys get "dirty" over time with regular playing?


They are still looking clean, but some keys on my NX are starting to have little scratches on them. After only two month of use (and always short finger-nails!).
The key-wear-problem isn't solved, I believe.
This and the cut-off thing is really annoying. Sad, because otherwise its just a great playing-experience.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/20/11 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
That video is a joke ;-) I couldn't even see it through to the end, it's pathetic. Lucky enough the guys on this forum will see through bad demonstrations like this and value the instrument on it's own.


I couldn't watch it for more than a few seconds either. Isn't it amazing that after all the comments on forums like this and underneath youtube clips screaming for straightforward, unadulterated demonstrations of an instrument's sonic capabilities, (and not long speeches, backing tracks or - goodness gracious - vocal accompaniments!) that the producers haven't yet got the message?
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/24/11 12:20 AM

Originally Posted By: DocSnyder
Originally Posted By: Othello
To 700NX owners:

Do your keys get "dirty" over time with regular playing?


They are still looking clean, but some keys on my NX are starting to have little scratches on them. After only two month of use (and always short finger-nails!).
The key-wear-problem isn't solved, I believe.
This and the cut-off thing is really annoying. Sad, because otherwise its just a great playing-experience.


Interesting... How do you position your fingers? Do you play with the fleshy part of the fingers, or have your finger tips vertical to the keys (thus having your nails come in contact with the keys when you play)? Mine's only problem is the the keys slowly develop "wood grain" like stain, almost like some aged piano keys, but to a lesser degree.
Posted by: DocSnyder

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/24/11 03:02 AM

Othello, I think that mainly the nails of my thumps come in contact with the keys.
Some keys feel a bit rough already. If the key-wear goes on that fast, I might have to exchange the keys in some months...
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/24/11 03:22 AM

It's really just not good enough that Roland have failed to address such a major issue by now, and instead appear to have introduced a new model with the same problem. My GAS for an RD700NX has been reigned back sharply and despite its limitations, I'm sticking with my CP5 for now.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/28/11 10:38 AM

I haven't had much time to play with it our NX, maybe a couple of hours total over 6 or so separate occasions. I'm still trying to work out how to run the DPBSD file through it and simultaneously record the audio. I can get the DPBSD file to play on a USB stick plugged into it, but the front panel controls don't influence the sound so I'm going to have to add some MIDI commands, or maybe make a separate configuration setup MIDI file that I run first.

Originally Posted By: f.locutus
I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.

I was able to replicate that with MP3 playback but I don't believe I heard it with WAV playback. It sounds like the very ends of the notes are abruptly stopped at key lift, rather than realistically damped. The voice reserve setting doesn't seem to fix it. It doesn't bother me much because I don't think we would ever need to play along with a file, but it would be nice if Roland fixed it.

So far I'm hearing some phasey sounds in some of the mid and upper mid notes that sound kind of fake. On note D4 the attack sounds kind of mushy and the decay sounds phasey; note D5 decay sounds too static. The piano tone itself is pleasant - particularly the low notes - through headphones, but loses a lot when playing through our mid-fi PA speakers. Headphone volume is a bit low, all the way up is comfortably loud with our AKG-K271S though a bit more volume would have been nice. Of the piano voices, the Concert and Studio are my favorite. The Studio is less metallic but also blander. I tend to open the lid opened all the way with it, and turn the pedal sympathetic resonance up a bit.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/28/11 05:12 PM

SO...I BOUGHT IT TODAY smile

But still have the issue of low sound volume with my AKG 240 mk2. Volume at 50% is really too low for playing ??? Any idea ?

Does some of you use a headphone amp ?



Originally Posted By: ClassicalMastery
Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Question about headphone: I found that the internal headphone AMP of the RD-700 is not strong enough for my AKG 240 MK2/AKG271. I need to put volume all the way up to get the same volume that a V-Piano will provide at 50% volume.

--> Are some people using a Headphone AMP with their RD-700 ?

Or Will a more sensitive headphone solve the problem, but the AKG 240 are already quite efficient since they are OK with MP3 players. May be a Grado headphone ?
Most of the time I don't raise the volume level of my NX more than halfway with the headphones I am using.
Posted by: moleskincrusher

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/29/11 06:33 PM

I suspect that NX pianos have the same "Master Gain" function as the F ones (I have an FP7F), so you should be able to raise the output of your new piano up to +12db as desired. (I.e., unless the headphone jack is independent of the Master Gain function -- I haven't checked that.)

On my FP7F I have to reset Master Gain every time I power on -- I don't know if that's the case with your instrument.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/29/11 06:47 PM

I can second a lot of your opinions on the sound dewster. The mid notes, if I don't up the resonance sound a little phasish. Funny the first thing I did was up the lid to the max too. That's how I played the steinway grand so now everything else sounds inferior.

I had one gig with it and was pleasantly surprised how good it sounded through my private slab monitor I had in my little corner of the stage. Unknown brand but it was much more piano-like than what I get through headphones. Bass was loud and clear too. Had the volume turned up pretty load since it was on stage and about 150 people in the audience. At home in my headphones it sounds a little wimpy compared to an acoustic.

My fav is the Brilliant Grand, cant get the concert grand to sound the way I want without stomping the damper pedal all the time. I like to play without it but I find the "ring" or sustain much shorter than I get from an acoustic piano. There's probably a setting somewhere I suppose.

Rather short opinion but I should get back to practising.

Cheers
Fred

/edit
Had to add something. We rehearsed some songs with the same PA system as we used on stage in a sound proof room a few days prior to the gig. At low volume it sounded almost awful. Like a synth. I was getting a little nervous about it but we rigged the stage and I took a practice run at much louder volume. No eq and the XLR output straight to mixer. The stage acoustics plus much louder volume made the same speaker sound a lot, and I do mean a lot, better.
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/29/11 08:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
It's really just not good enough that Roland have failed to address such a major issue by now, and instead appear to have introduced a new model with the same problem. My GAS for an RD700NX has been reigned back sharply and despite its limitations, I'm sticking with my CP5 for now.


Actually, I just went back to Guitar Center, and checked out the NX on display (for about a month now). The keys on the unit are still very pristine looking, with none of the wear problem. The V-Piano on display though, is in a horrid shape eek
Posted by: HappyOnStage

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/30/11 01:31 AM

I got it last week. I've got about 8 hours on it and I gigged with it last Sunday. Here's my take. I'm a piano player and was looking for a GREAT stage piano with Awesome feel and fantastic sound. This board is as close as it gets. When I turned it on I jammed a rock tune and was pretty disappointed the way it sounded. I then played a classical piece and the sound was magnificent. I then began to scroll through the different piano sounds and quickly found "Rock Piano". Tried the rock tune again and it sounded awesome..hmmm go figure...:). This is a players board through and through. The feel is amazing and I can flippin' rip on it.

KEYS DIRTY? No - not yet at least, but there are slight grooves in the key so I can only imagine that dust/dirt/sweat will get trapped but even dirty, I can't see it would take the feel away too much. I actually enjoy playing on the 700 more than I do my Yamaha C Baby Grand.

SOUND FOCUS - I didn't have much faith in this feature but I played with it at practice last Wednesday. We got jamming and the music got real thick on a Jazz piece (I was playing EP). I couldn't hear myself so used the sound focus and low and behold - I cut through and kept playing. It worked.. however once the band came back to earth you have to remember to back the sound focus off again but it's a great feature.

NOTE STEALING - I saw a few posts on this. I did replicate it but only with the sustain locked down and I played a ridiculous amount of notes. I'm not sure if it's a 64 poly when you layer or if it divides the 128 by how many layers you use but I can't think of a song that would make this a big deal. The sound is so thick by the time it begins to poly max and "steal" it's no big deal for me at least.

Not sure if there is an aftermarket music stand but it would be convenient to have something. Luckily I have a top 49 key for occasional strings that I lay my lead/cheat sheets on. otherwise the board is to narrow to lay an 8x11 paper on it.

I did plug directly into the stage snake last week using XLR and the sound was a lot better than using 1/4 plug, but that could have been from the older converter boxes that I was using. The sound engineer was blown away by the sound and the quality once I plugged in using XLR.

That's it for now. I bought it and I'm a believer. I'll post in couple weeks after 25 hours on it or so.

By the way - It's HEAVY. I mistakenly got used to my 88 key controller and a laptop and I forgot how heavy real stage pianos can be. If it's going to travel - it will require muscle and a lot of it when you add the flight case.
Posted by: kiedysktos.

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/30/11 06:47 AM

Originally Posted By: HappyOnStage
SOUND FOCUS - I didn't have much faith in this feature but I played with it at practice last Wednesday. We got jamming and the music got real thick on a Jazz piece (I was playing EP). I couldn't hear myself so used the sound focus and low and behold - I cut through and kept playing. It worked.. however once the band came back to earth you have to remember to back the sound focus off again but it's a great feature.


I'm curious how it works on piano sounds. You used it in EP sound, so it was Sound Foucus E. Piano Type:
"Changes the sound from soft to strikingly unique.
This parameter is effective only with respect to certain SuperNATURAL E. Piano tones."

According to the manual, there are also:

Piano Type1
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch, and also reduces the sense of stereo, allowing your sound to be more prominent in the band’s overall mix.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

Piano Type2
Reduces the sense of stereo.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

Sound Lift
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch.

Enhancer
Controls the harmonic content of the upper range, making your sound more prominent.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.

Mid Boost
Boosts the mid-range frequencies.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.


If anyone tried different types in live situation, let us know.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/30/11 07:52 PM

Can anyone help me with the NX and MIDI?

I've spent much of the day playing around with our NX, demoing the various "tones" in there (almost 1k) as well as the drum kits.

I also tried running the DPBSD MIDI file on it via the internal MIDI player and have had some success. If I do it after a factory reset I get some very lame, 2 layer, heavily stretched piano. But if I edit the system settings and set the "Part Mode" to "16PART" (rather than the default, which is "16PART + PERF") the voice playing is then whatever I pick from the front panel. The problem, as with other Roland SN DPs, is that the pedal sympathetic resonance and other sound effects are missing. I can edit these in the ONE TOUCH settings but that doesn't seem to influence MIDI playback for the missing sound effects. It passes the silent replay test, and I can can clearly hear key sympathetic resonance, so that's nice. But I'd really like to hear pedal sympathetic resonance via MIDI (who wouldn't?).

Pedal sympathetic resonance is a generic assignable in-line effect in the GX/GXF, but they removed that from the list of selectable effects in the NX and perhaps bound it more tightly to the APs? And of course they neglect to tell you anything about this in the MIDI implementation manual for the NX, so I'm flying completely blind.

I don't hear the "loom of strings" pedal down noise either when playing it via MIDI. I tried sending a SYSEX message to channel 1 that sets this in the "Live Set" thing, but no dice. In fact, when I explicitly pick the first main SN piano via Cakewalk, I get a piano that sounds very mono. Weird.

Here is the SYSEX I'm sending to try to increase the damper pedal noise:

F0 41 10 00 00 50 12 10 02 00 05 59 F7

I guess I'm doing something wrong as it seems to have no effect.

Anyone got any ideas on what I might try here? I can't say I really even understand the "Live Set" concept at this point.
Posted by: hawgdriver

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/31/11 02:05 AM

Studio grand is my new best friend. Bland? Maybe, but I think it sounds clean as a whistle, and the touch is so gratifying.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/02/11 12:51 PM

HELPP !!! I have my RD700NX since few days and I have weird issues with the piano sounds. I hope I don't have a defective RD700NX !


1 - When the damper pedal is pressed, I find the Syn Resonance quite annoying and not realistic ( in the upper part of the keyboard , above middle C, rather than a subtle "string resonance", I hear a strange strong "windy" noise besides the note,). Way Too much effect ! For all the "ONE TOUCH PIANOS" It is set to :"Deph =52.

--> I have to lower it to 10 or set it OFF to have something realistic !

-> Strange nobody mentioned this ? (this problem occur only when the damper pedal is used)



2 - I can edit only 9 of the 30 pianos sounds !

the manual says "In the ONE touch PIANO screen use the VALUE dial to select the variation that you want to edit... press (Tone Edit) button..."

But then I have, in the first highlighted line, access to only 9 pianos:

001 - Concert Grand
002 - Honky-Kong 1
003 - Concert Mono
004 - Studio Grand
005 - Honky-Kong 2
006 - Studio mono
007 - Brillant Grand
008 - Honky-Kong 3
009 - Brillant Mono.

For example, Rock Grand, Mellow Studio or Antique Piano 1 & 2 are missing and therefore NOT editable ??

If I select and play for example the Rock GRAND and then press (TONE EDIT) key, I am proposed to edit 001:Concert grand.

And.... what the hell are those Honkey-Kong 2 & 3 since we have only ONE Honkey-Kond sound accessible through the ONE TOUCH Tones ?

--> Could someone check for me if his has access to setting for only 9 pianos or if for example he can edit the Rock GRAND ?




3 - I am very surprised that for ALL the 9 pianos available through the (TONE EDIT) key, the EDIT parameters are all the same. I hope I don't have a defective RD700NX !

I have (after I carefully restored all to initial conditions, with the INITIALIZE function) for example, for EACH of them :

LID =5
Damper Noise = 29
Duplex Scale =16
String Reso = 64
Key off reso = 64
Hammer noise = 0
and...
Synth Reso Deeph = 52
Peaking Freq = 250 Hz
HF Damp = 3150 Hz


--> How can ALL those parameters be the same for ALL piano !!!. They should be adapted to each sound ?

--> Could someone check for me if his setting are also the same for ALL 9 pianos ?




Many thanks in advance for your help
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/02/11 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
And.... what the hell are those Honkey-Kong 2 & 3 since we have only ONE Honkey-Kond sound accessible through the ONE TOUCH Tones ?

Honkey Kong 2 - is that some kind of console game featuring the adventures of a Caucasian instead of those of a large ape?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/02/11 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
1 - When the damper pedal is pressed, I find the Syn Resonance quite annoying and not realistic ( in the upper part of the keyboard , above middle C, rather than a subtle "string resonance", I hear a strange strong "windy" noise besides the note,). Way Too much effect ! For all the "ONE TOUCH PIANOS" It is set to :"Deph =52.

--> I have to lower it to 10 or set it OFF to have something realistic !

-> Strange nobody mentioned this ? (this problem occur only when the damper pedal is used)

Strange, I think the default level is rather low. Since the pedal sympathetic resonance is an in-line effect there are a ton of other parameters you can adjust other than the level, have you tried any of those?

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
2 - I can edit only 9 of the 30 pianos sounds !

the manual says "In the ONE touch PIANO screen use the VALUE dial to select the variation that you want to edit... press (Tone Edit) button..."

But then I have, in the first highlighted line, access to only 9 pianos:

I believe you can pick among these 9 basic sounds or non-editable variations as starting points.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
For example, Rock Grand, Mellow Studio or Antique Piano 1 & 2 are missing and therefore NOT editable ??

If I select and play for example the Rock GRAND and then press (TONE EDIT) key, I am proposed to edit 001:Concert grand.

Rock Grand is based on the Concert Grand base voice.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
And.... what the hell are those Honkey-Kong 2 & 3 since we have only ONE Honkey-Kond sound accessible through the ONE TOUCH Tones ?

I'm not sure, but I think Honkey Tonk is a non-editable base variation which is itself based on Concert Grand. Honkey Tonk2 is probably based on Studio Grand. Honkey Tonk 3 is probably based on Brilliant Grand.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
3 - I am very surprised that for ALL the 9 pianos available through the (TONE EDIT) key, the EDIT parameters are all the same. I hope I don't have a defective RD700NX !

I think they have altered them to some degree and then have centered the available controls so that they all start at the same point. I agree that seeing what they did to get the various voices would have been less confusing and much more instructive.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/02/11 06:30 PM

I just tested all the RD-700NX harpsichords in the Live Set front panel presets and none are SN. Bummer.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 05:06 AM

Here's a video review of the 700NX

http://bcove.me/j27r9t9v

Found it on www.keyboardmag.com/Gear
Posted by: Qbert

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 08:54 AM

Funny mate.... he doesn't look an experienced player. Who is he?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 09:27 AM

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Here's a video review of the 700NX

20 to 25 attack layers? Only one decay layer? For all I know he could be 100% correct, but my feeling is that he's somewhat off-base with his SN musings.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: B. Michels
1 - When the damper pedal is pressed, I find the Syn Resonance quite annoying and not realistic ( in the upper part of the keyboard , above middle C, rather than a subtle "string resonance", I hear a strange strong "windy" noise besides the note,). Way Too much effect ! For all the "ONE TOUCH PIANOS" It is set to :"Deph =52.

--> I have to lower it to 10 or set it OFF to have something realistic !

-> Strange nobody mentioned this ? (this problem occur only when the damper pedal is used)

Strange, I think the default level is rather low. Since the pedal sympathetic resonance is an in-line effect there are a ton of other parameters you can adjust other than the level, have you tried any of those?

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
2 - I can edit only 9 of the 30 pianos sounds !

the manual says "In the ONE touch PIANO screen use the VALUE dial to select the variation that you want to edit... press (Tone Edit) button..."

But then I have, in the first highlighted line, access to only 9 pianos:

I believe you can pick among these 9 basic sounds or non-editable variations as starting points.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
For example, Rock Grand, Mellow Studio or Antique Piano 1 & 2 are missing and therefore NOT editable ??

If I select and play for example the Rock GRAND and then press (TONE EDIT) key, I am proposed to edit 001:Concert grand.

Rock Grand is based on the Concert Grand base voice.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
And.... what the hell are those Honkey-Kong 2 & 3 since we have only ONE Honkey-Kond sound accessible through the ONE TOUCH Tones ?

I'm not sure, but I think Honkey Tonk is a non-editable base variation which is itself based on Concert Grand. Honkey Tonk2 is probably based on Studio Grand. Honkey Tonk 3 is probably based on Brilliant Grand.

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
3 - I am very surprised that for ALL the 9 pianos available through the (TONE EDIT) key, the EDIT parameters are all the same. I hope I don't have a defective RD700NX !

I think they have altered them to some degree and then have centered the available controls so that they all start at the same point. I agree that seeing what they did to get the various voices would have been less confusing and much more instructive.



You say "Honkey Tonk2 is probably based on Studio Grand. Honkey Tonk 3 is probably based on Brilliant Grand", but... I have only access to ONE Honkey Tonk sound to play that is in the Concert grand serie. So... how comes I can edit 3 variations of Honkey Kong, but only play ONE ????
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 12:15 PM

B. Michels, tried a factory reset?
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Here's a video review of the 700NX

http://bcove.me/j27r9t9v

Found it on www.keyboardmag.com/Gear

That was a terrible review. Thanks for posting though. It was like watching Mr. Rogers give a technical lesson on digital piano sound production.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
That was a terrible review.

I agree. Really poor audio, and he's one of those people that uses swallowing as punctuation.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 03:23 PM

I did reset the 9 "ONE key" sounds. Is there a "complete" factory reset ?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
You say "Honkey Tonk2 is probably based on Studio Grand. Honkey Tonk 3 is probably based on Brilliant Grand", but... I have only access to ONE Honkey Tonk sound to play that is in the Concert grand serie. So... how comes I can edit 3 variations of Honkey Kong, but only play ONE ????

You can play all three by selecting them in the SN piano tone edit screen. Granted only one of them is represented in the Live Set presets, but who really cares? The honky-tonk sound isn't one I'm all that interested in.

After listening to them, I'm convinced the three honky-tonk pianos are based on the three base pianos (Concert, Studio, Brilliant). It makes sense that they provided a honky-tonk and mono version of each piano as a basis for patch building.

It doesn't seem to be a simple chorus effect, it really sounds like detuned unison strings. I wish we had a control for this, a smaller amount might be fairly interesting to apply to other piano presets.

I wish there was a control in there to set the level of L&R pan from bass to treble notes without collapsing the stereo image.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Is there a "complete" factory reset ?

Menu | Utility | Factory Reset All
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
... if I edit the system settings and set the "Part Mode" to "16PART" (rather than the default, which is "16PART + PERF") the voice playing is then whatever I pick from the front panel. The problem, as with other Roland SN DPs, is that the pedal sympathetic resonance and other sound effects are missing.

After some experimentation I'd like to amend my statement above.

Everything, including pedal sympathetic resonance, is audible when the NX is played via MIDI (provided you edit the "Part Mode" to "16PART").

The only thing missing that I can tell is the pedal-down sound effect ("loom of strings").
If anyone has a clue as to how to get this to play via MIDI I'm all ears.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 04:43 PM

dewster, it sounds like you're doing a nice job of tweaking your NX for the DPBSD...or should that be tweaking the DPBSD for the NX? ;p

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 05:38 PM

Thanks Dewster
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Here's a video review of the 700NX

http://bcove.me/j27r9t9v

Found it on www.keyboardmag.com/Gear

That was a terrible review. Thanks for posting though. It was like watching Mr. Rogers give a technical lesson on digital piano sound production.


C'mon guys! You gotta love the way he plays with Wurly sound at 2:30 wink
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 07:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
...or should that be tweaking the DPBSD for the NX? ;p

I know you're kidding James, but in case you're sort of kidding on the square I probably owe you and others an explanation. It's true that I'm "teaching to the test" to some degree since the NX is the only DP we have at the moment. But the tests are widely applicable, and if I run across some aspect that the NX fails I'd be sure to shout it from the rooftops.

After all, it's not that my wife or I are particularly in love with the NX - it certainly has some good things going for it, but it has some warts as well. The DPBSD test additions and changes are mainly due to the fact that I'm spending a fair amount of time with the NX and it's making me think of new things and ways to test. The NX is fairly sophisticated as these things go, so I'm able to make tests that reveal more in there than in many DPs.

I added a really loud E6 to the beginning of the pedal sympathetic resonance test. This lets me hear both pedal symp res (when the pedal is down) and the duplex scale resonance (when the pedal is up). I should have done this in the first rev of the DPBSD MIDI file as it is much easier to hear the effect that with the old test, and probably on most or all DPs, not just the NX. I've gone round and round with this test for the duration of the project, trying to make the effect more audible.

I added the late pedal partial damping test because I didn't feel the quick partial damping test was player-centric enough. And I added the undampered transition test because it was easy. smile
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/03/11 07:40 PM

Great, thank you for clarifying these points.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: mah115

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/08/11 02:59 AM

Update:

Unfortunately, the infamous ivory feel key wear issue hasn't been fixed. Middle C is already showing signs of wear. Maybe when it get worn enough I'll varnish it or something...
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/08/11 11:17 AM

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Real pity that this is still an issue.
Posted by: FredFabulous

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/09/11 06:19 AM

Are you guys washing your hands before you play? I see people of the opera do it all the time. Also they have guys cleaning the pianos with whiteboard cleaning fluid stuff like twice a day or something (ok maybe once a week but there's a lot of pianos here so there's always somebody tuning/rubbing something).

When I play guitar if I don't wash my hands the neck would clog up and loose the slipperiness in a week or two. I even keep a towel to wipe it clean afterwards. Maybe I should start doing that with the piano too?

By the way I've found the NX sounds a lot better when the volume is turned up quite loud. When volume is low I start to hear slight phasy sounds from the mid to mid-high notes and the bass boominess is gone. When cranked it sounds wonderful. Watch your ears though. I pulled the trigger on a pair of Genelec monitors the other day so I'll experiment with putting the monitors far away and crank the volume and see what happens.

Cheers
Fred
Posted by: scotto

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/11/11 12:15 AM

Going to pick up this DP tomorrow as an early bday present for my wife. Just a quick question, does it come with any sort of key cover/dust protection device of any sort??

I am concerned by the note stealing issue, but everything else about the Piano screams quality, and I was considering the Korg SV-1 as an alternative, but my wife has her heart set on the roland.

Thanks in advance.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/11/11 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: scotto
Going to pick up this DP tomorrow as an early bday present for my wife. Just a quick question, does it come with any sort of key cover/dust protection device of any sort??

No. They make nice black elastic things you can buy, but we just lay a towel over ours when we're not using it.

Originally Posted By: scotto
I am concerned by the note stealing issue...

More of a note damp stealing issue - notes play but they get rudely cut off at key lift. It's easy to reproduce, but you probably won't encounter it unless you play back an MP3 and attack the keys like a frenzied demon.
Posted by: Galuwen

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/11/11 10:12 AM

Hey,

finally !!! Thx for that one !!

I play the ORGAN and we have a bath tub nearby to wash our hands.

AND we play in socks and shoes are NOT allowed grin

Alexander
Posted by: Othello

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/11/11 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster

No. They make nice black elastic things you can buy, but we just lay a towel over ours when we're not using it.


Funny, I thought I invented that one blush
Posted by: scotto

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/12/11 08:32 AM

So I went to the store this morning to purchase this for my wife. When I get to the store the guy that I had been talking to and who had put in heaps of work walking my wife and I through the piano options was unfortunately on leave. I spoke to the manager of the department instead who said they guy was on vacation and wouldn't be back for another 2 weeks. This however turned out to be a pretty good thing, as I managed to talk this guy down a lot further on the piano, as he was going to pass the commission of the sale onto the original guy, so discounting into the commission level didn't bother him. He also chucked the RPU-3 and a stand into the deal.

So far, very very happy!! Wife is over the moon with the sound an action. It is a bit on the large side for our one bedroom apartment, but that's not a huge issue.

I have only had a brief play (I'm not actually a pianist, more of a thumper that learned a few tricks from my grandma) and I am continually blown away by the sounds it can produce. Running it through my Opus One studio monitors, the bottom end is almost overwhelming, but is easy to dial back a bit with the on-board eq. Through my Beyerdynanic DT770pro headphones, the sound is sublime. Lots of warmth where you want it in the pianos but with enough clarity, plenty of punch and fun in the EP's. The Basses and vox are also quite awesome.

The only small negative I have noticed so far is in some of the SN pianos, there are clear definitions in sonic qualities between different regions, specifically coming down from the top, there is quite a difference in sound between the very highs and highs (sorry I can't describe that better, I'm an audio engineer, not a muso...).

Very very pleased with my purchase. Now to break out the books and try and learning something myself!!
Posted by: B. Michels

Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/13/11 11:05 AM

I have a technical question: Is it possible to set the volume for the (audio or SMF) music playback by using an easier way than the EDIT>Utility>song fonctions>AUdio (or SMF) volume... menu.

Can we for example change the volume of the music playback by using a knob or the layer level Sliders ?

I want indeed to play the keyboard with a song playback in the background, and I need to EASILY adjust real time the background sound volume which by default is too loud.


Alternatively, IF it is not possible to assign the playback volume to a slider, is it possible to permanently store a lower value for playback volume set-up (default value = 127= Maximum) ?


Thanks in advance
Posted by: Othello

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/13/11 04:27 PM

Ok guys, I have finally come to the conclusion that my 700NX keys are indeed soaking in finger dirt and grease. Most of the middle keys now have developed that "wood grain" patterns of dirt. I tried wiping them with some vinegar but to no avail. Before trying other profession products out here, is the dirt even removable? I have read other threads on the 700GX and it seems that this is an old problem. Though the keys are not losing their gloss or becoming rough, the dirt really bother me.. Any suggestions appreciated.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/13/11 04:43 PM

Othello, my apologies if you have already answered this question (and indeed for its somewhat personal nature), but do you wash your hands before playing? Assuming you do, which detergent(s) are you using? I seem to recall that the issue may/may not be the result of using alcohol-based cleaners.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Othello

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/13/11 05:01 PM

No problem, James. I do keep my fingers clean and I use Softsoap hand soap, which is alcohol based.
Posted by: Jazz+

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/13/11 05:22 PM

I would try a little dish washing soap in water with a towel.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/14/11 10:09 AM

Apparently, nobody is willing to help me with my question about " how to assign the playback volume to a slider " :-(((
Posted by: dewster

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/14/11 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Apparently, nobody is willing to help me with my question about " how to assign the playback volume to a slider " :-(((

I just flailed around on ours and it seems we are stuck with pulling up the menu.

If I were designing this I'd put a volume control on the song screen. It seems kind of crazy to have this function buried in a menu.
Posted by: scotto

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/15/11 05:02 PM

I have to agree that the playback level should be much easier to access, along with all the percussion and sound effect settings. Having to go into the layer edit menu and scrolling all the way up passed the synth sounds (which are amazing by the way smile ) to be able to assign a standard drum kit doesn't seem all that intuitive to me, when there are 6 quick access just for the supernatural piano sounds.

Maybe I'm missing something though?? I haven't begun to play with the user pre-sets yet, maybe that's an easy way once I have set it up properly.
Posted by: B. Michels

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/16/11 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: B. Michels
Apparently, nobody is willing to help me with my question about " how to assign the playback volume to a slider " :-(((

I just flailed around on ours and it seems we are stuck with pulling up the menu.

If I were designing this I'd put a volume control on the song screen. It seems kind of crazy to have this function buried in a menu.



Well...And alternatively, IF it is not possible to assign the playback volume to a slider, is it possible to permanently store a lower value for playback volume set-up (default value = 127= Maximum) ?
Posted by: pianodilemma

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/16/11 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Othello
No problem, James. I do keep my fingers clean and I use Softsoap hand soap, which is alcohol based.


PLEASE don't use *ANYTHING* alcohol based on your hands prior to playing ANY piano, ESPECIALLY hand sanitizers. Particularly on the Roland PH actions with ivory, alcohol is known to be a primary cause of degradation of the keys.

I advise all people to wash their hands with plain soap and water and rinse and dry them thoroughly before playing ANY instrument, and particularly a keyboard instrument.

Also, clip your fingernails, especially the corners of your thumbnails. I don't know how people play with longer fingernails anyway but the constant clacking keeps me clipping them. Well, that and the fact that I play bass...
Posted by: cfishy

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/16/11 10:22 PM

My $300 Casio cdp100 doesn't have any key wear out issues... This sounds like I should not pay 2.6k for an 'upgrade.'

Maybe I'll wait a few years until they sort this out.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/17/11 02:56 PM

@cfishy "My $300 Casio cdp100 doesn't have any key wear out issues..."

Yep, and it sounds and handles exactly the same as the RD700NX. I think everyone should buy a Casio100 instead of being ripped of for a Roland flagship ;-)
J
Posted by: rickshapiro

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/17/11 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
@cfishy "My $300 Casio cdp100 doesn't have any key wear out issues..."

Yep, and it sounds and handles exactly the same as the RD700NX. I think everyone should buy a Casio100 instead of being ripped of for a Roland flagship ;-)
J


I think comments like this could be attributed to frustration that Roland has not permanently addressed the issue. I like the RD700NX but I would agree, the keyboard wear issue is a stumbling block for me. I assume it is the same for others. I'm not negating the fact that it is an excellent DP in most respects but for that money Roland should setup efforts to permanently fixing the problem.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 02/17/11 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: rickshapiro

I think comments like this could be attributed to frustration that Roland has not permanently addressed the issue. I like the RD700NX but I would agree, the keyboard wear issue is a stumbling block for me. I assume it is the same for others. I'm not negating the fact that it is an excellent DP in most respects but for that money Roland should setup efforts to permanently fixing the problem.

I had some key wear on my RD-700GXF, but nothing that remotely bothered me, and for some pictures I've seen where people are saying it's really worn, mine would have been considered severely worn, but it wasn't a big deal. I liked them worn because I enjoyed the texture. I had to take care of the keys, clean them regularly, and wash my hands, but this is something everyone should probably do. I'd love to have the PHA II/III Ivory Feel keys inside my NP88.

Note, I'm not downplaying the issue here, because the keys ought not wear the way they do. Roland doesn't have a fix for it otherwise they'd have said so. They're only answer to completely replace the key/keys.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/03/11 10:38 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
giving the appearance of a wooden under-structure to the white keys...I mean, who needs this? Ridiculous idea anyway.


Ridiculous, perhaps, but I know someone who saw this and thought the keys were made of wood and that's why it felt so 'real'. So perhaps a sneaky marketing scheme? Ha. Or placebo effect? Or maybe they just want it to look like a real piano bed even though it's stuck in the most digital looking metallic chassis. ;-)
Posted by: Califajoy

Where to buy NX, SX, GX model? - 03/05/11 11:28 PM

Would you reply to me where to buy NX, SX or GX model with lowest price?
(no ebay)
Posted by: JHbackingtracks

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/12/11 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: DocSnyder
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: f.locutus
I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.

I hope it's a sporadic case.

Fabrizio

Nope it's not. I have the same problem with my RD-700GXF. It must be be something with the SuperNATURAL piano, because when I switch over to the non-SN pianos it doesn't have that bazaar cut off. I tested the RD700NX when I briefly owned it, and it did the same thing. I have NO idea why the SN pianos do that. The V-Piano does not though. I checked it.

I also noticed this and contacted Roland about it. They are trying to find a solution for this, they told me.


I wish this was still the case!! I have basically been told by the Roland head technician (his personal view, non-official Roland view) that he doesn't want to waste my time anymore (as I've been hanging on about 4 months trying to decide what to do if Roland don't fix the issue) that the problem is probably not going to be fixed, as it's a problem with the CPU (actual hardware) and nothing will be done.

I'm very annoyed, as the NX was a perfect piano for me, it had all the features I needed, and I'm not having to hassle myself going back to the music shop to get a refund and find something else.

I really love the super natural piano sounds, expect the cut off... it's crazy. It seems that none of the Roland stage pianos can handle the super natural piano sounds, never mind with WAV playback (which is also one of the big reasons I purchased the NX) The GX upgrade is even worse apparently, and all the NX's have this cut off.... and the only other option is the FP, and although I'd be loosing out on countless features at least I'd still have the SN piano, but it seems the FP also has this issue (as discussed on other forums)

Now that I'm 'used' to an SN piano, and all the NX's features, anything less just won't be right... but there's no way I can live with a 2k keyboard 'cutting off' my notes.

You would have thought, after Roland seeing all these forums talking about the issue, and the thousands of views my video has had on youtube showing the issue... that Roland WOULD do something about it even if it does cost them money, as I imagine they will loose sales....

I've been looking into the yamaha CP5 as suggested by someone, and it actually sounds quite nice.... and seems to have a lot of the same features of the NX (although I'll miss my jazz scat voice! confused) I've never really been satisfied with the yamaha piano sounds, but the CP5 sounded nice to me from youtube video's.... I'll just need to test it to make sure it doesn't have any crazy cut offs, and doesn't steal notes from me when playing back WAV.

It really is a shame about the NX, as it's perfect for me... it'll break my heart when I hand it back in. frown
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/17/11 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
[quote=DocSnyder][quote=PianoZac][quote=f.locutus]I don't remember if this video regarding an issue with the 700NX has been posted before.
I hope it's a sporadic case.


This is either sporadic or has been taken care of. I went to guitar center again today and specifically tried to reproduce the effect on their 700nx. It was impossible. There was absolutely nothing wrong with their model.

I played the exact chords he uses in the youtube video and played them the exact same way. I changed all of the settings, testing the default piano settings and also disabling all reverb, eq, compression, chorus, etc. so the piano was all natural (pun intended).

In no situation could I cause any weird cut-off issues with either the concert or studio pianos (I dislike the brilliant and didn't bother testing it). I then did a full reset of the 700nx in the menu so everything was back at factory defaults. Retried everything, again with no problems. I tried 4-note, 8-note, 10-note, 12-note chords, even full arm chords. Fast staccato, normal with no pedal, lightning fast with no pedal, an everything else I could think of. No abnormal cutoff.

So I wouldn't rule this board out because of this issue, as not every board seems to be affected. I'm not saying it isn't a very real issue, as some people may have it, but apparently its not affecting all of them. I also talked with roland a while back and they told me if there were any issues it would have to be a minute few people and not a general problem, because he said he wasn't aware of any such problem unless you use up polyphony, in which this obviously isn't the case.

Maybe anyone who has the issue could get an exchange?

And anyone looking at buying one definitely try it first if you can. Or return it asap if it happens and get another one?

Just some thoughts...
Posted by: John from KC

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/17/11 08:57 PM

I seem to be confused about this also because I could not recreate the problem at GC either. However, I don't want to buy the piano and THEN discover the problem.

Does the cutoff/note stealing issue occur when you are playing the preset SN pianos? Do you have to create four overlapping layers to create the issue? Were I to just plug the RD in and turn it on, and play a series of rapid chords with liberal pedal use, this issue would occur?

This is primarily designed to be a stage piano and not a workstation, so I could understand why it gets bogged down when playing MP3s or WAV and then playing complicated patterns over these. Does it occur when playing back SMF files? I want to make sure I can figure out what causes this error before I buy the machine because I don't want to get one, bring it to a gig, sit down and start playing the piano, and have it happen (I don't use the playback feature...really just the pianos and electric pianos).
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/17/11 09:59 PM

I've been able to reproduce all of the issues, and I'd be surprised if it isn't a systematic issue in every RD-700NX.

The layered strings dropping out with the pedal down and several notes played repeatedly can be made a bit better if you up the voice reserve for the string layer.

The piano decay cutoff issue I've only heard clearly when playing an audio file. WAV files cause it, MP3 files are worse. I don't think the pedal makes any difference.

That said, if you don't play super fast repetitions over strings or audio files, and if you couldn't reproduce it yourself by actually playing the NX, then I really doubt you'll notice anything. I don't like knowing this issue exists in the NX, and it must really be a pain for people who want to use it in certain ways that it's capabilities would suggest are possible (and my sympathy goes out to them), but for most people it will be a non-issue.

I almost got around to making a MIDI file to test this today but ran out of time. Perhaps over the weekend.
Posted by: John from KC

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/18/11 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
The layered strings dropping out with the pedal down and several notes played repeatedly can be made a bit better if you up the voice reserve for the string layer.


This I understand. If you think about it, each voice is probably comprised of two tones (stereo), so 128 poly is really 64 simultaneous keys. Layering with strings probably makes each note 4 tones, reducing poly to (128/4 = 32) 32 keys. With sustain on, and the longer decay time for strings, the more tones playing at a time. With rapid playing, the envelope for polyphony is maxed.

As for the cutoff issues over playback, I didn't test that.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
The piano decay cutoff issue I've only heard clearly when playing an audio file. WAV files cause it, MP3 files are worse. I don't think the pedal makes any difference.


Sorry for any confusion, this is the only thing I was trying to reproduce. My last post was referring to testing this issue. I didn't do anything with the string test so I can't comment. :-/

And I didn't use audio playback. That's not a feature I'll probably ever use, and I couldn't tell from all the posts if it only happened when using playback or not. So for those who would use playback, I would test the board first. For those only using the piano patches with no other layers or audio playback, in my test it performed perfectly in everything I threw at it.
Posted by: ScottishFalcon

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 02:18 PM

Hey everyone.
I am new to the forum and this thread, which I have been monitoring for a while. I have purchased a RD700NX, having previously owned a GXF.

The GXF (or RD700GX1) has 17 supernatural acoustic pianos (SN01-SN17)...
The NX has 35 supernatural acoustic pianos (3 Concert, 3 Studio and 29 Brilliant, which seems slightly unbalanced?!)

Does anybody know how many actual sampled pianos (not patches) there are on each instrument?! I would be interested to know if the NX has more than the GXF, allowing you more freedom, potential and creativity to create new patches, and giving you more for your money. By the way, I am assuming that these 17 or 35 sounds are patches: I could be wrong. Does anyone know?

I was a fan of SN04 on the GXF. Which piano on the NX is closest, or what parameter settings can most closely replicate it?

Also, I thought it might be a good idea to start collating lists of NX users' suggested preferences/parameter settings/configurations for optimized acoustic piano sounds. Does anybody have any suggestions, as the presets probably aren't as good as they could be.

Cheers guys.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: SuperSonicScotty
The NX has 35 supernatural acoustic pianos (3 Concert, 3 Studio and 29 Brilliant, which seems slightly unbalanced?!)

I'm 99% sure there are only 3 basic SN APs in the NX.

Originally Posted By: SuperSonicScotty
I was a fan of SN04 on the GXF. Which piano on the NX is closest, or what parameter settings can most closely replicate it?

I've never owned a GXF, but I believe others have mentioned that there is perhaps one more SN piano in it than in the NX. And the way the universe works your favorite is probably the one they decided not to put in the NX.
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 05:33 PM

Hi all.

I am also new to this forum, new in that I am finally taking an active part. I have been following you all closely for many months now and feel like I have come to know and respect the opinions and abilities of many of the regular contributors to this forum.


I have just purchased a RD700nx only a few days ago and am growing to love it more each day. I understand what some of you have said about the instrument being perfect yet maybe a bit sterile, I also own a Korg SV1, IMO a seriously undervalued board, but as I said the NX is definitely growing on me. As a player who plays as a soloist or with a singer the cutting through the mix isn't a concern for me also playing in my usual fashion I haven't noticed any note stealing.

My reason for the NX over others is that I also compose and arrange so the full canvas of sounds that it offers is very important to me. I had a RD700 for many years with extra cards but the piano and electric piano sounds were always unsatisfactory to me.

Now here is my question for any NX owners out there. The Data list states that there are just under 1000 tones in the NX including drum sets. I have noticed some of these tones as layered tones in the Live Sets but how do I access them? The NX seems to either work in Live Set mode or User Mode and there is nothing I can see in the manual to help me with this, I'm sure I am missing something, but what?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mark
Posted by: ScottishFalcon

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 06:22 PM

Hi Mark,
I was wondering the same thing a few hours ago! I would like to be able to play from the tone list rather than the Live Set List, but there doesn't seem to be a dedicated mode, as there usually is on workstation/synths.

I was also wondering why the manual from the NX is half the size (literally) of the manual for the GX. It doesn't seem as comprehensive.

How are you finding the action?
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 09:57 PM

Hi SuperSonicScotty.

The manual online is no different to the printed one so no help there. It must be possible to access the Tone List sounds or they wouldn't have listed which keys trigger which drums for the drum sets.

I think I adapt fairly quickly to whatever action I play barring a non weighted one. I'm getting to really like it, it is efficient and firm if not a little hard at the bottom. I find the fake ivory key tops a little different as it feels very dry to my fingers, I guess I'm more use to plastic key tops in both digital and acoustic pianos.

I hope someone comes up with an answer for both of us.

Cheers

Mark
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/19/11 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: marknz
I hope someone comes up with an answer for both of us.

I agree that the basic voices ("tones") are somewhat hidden in the NX; they exist only inside of preset layers. Anyway:

1. Press the "LAYER EDIT" button under the screen.
2. Press the left arrow key until you are on the "Tone" screen.
3. Press the down arrow key so that the line that starts with "UP2" is highlighted.
4. Press the layer button that is blinking so that it is solidly lit. Shove its slider all the way up. If any other layer buttons are lit, press them so that they are unlit.
5. Use the scroll wheel to scroll through the sounds.
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 12:42 AM

Thanks Dewster, as you say rather hidden but easy once you know how. Thanks also for all the analytical information you've been supplying over the months. I usually go by the sound I hear and the vibe I get when playing an instrument but I, like you am not a fan of a looped sound, part of the reason I went for the SN sounds.

Thanks again.

Mark
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 12:50 AM

Thanks Dewster, as you say rather hidden but easy once you know. Thanks also for all the analytical information you've been supplying this forum over the many months I've been reading it. Like you I'm not a fan of a looped sound, one of the reasons I went for the SN sounds.

Thanks Again.
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 12:52 AM

Sorry about the double entry, thought I lost the first one.

Newby mistake.
Posted by: Siriosys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 01:24 AM

...hey Mark,

Nice to see another Kiwi on the forums! Welcome aboard!
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 04:21 AM

Thanks Siriosys.

You've got a similar setup of DPs as I have. Great minds eh...
Posted by: Siriosys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 04:25 AM

No worries, however, I'm actually going to be getting rid of the SV-1 I think. I can't stand the spongey action..... looking very seriously at either an RD700NX / NP88 or waiting it out for the Stage2.
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 05:26 AM

Sorry to hear that. I don't mind the action at all, in fact for playing electronic sounding instruments, EPs, Clavs or Organs, I would probably prefer it to the NX action. What I don't like about the SV1 action is that I have a few notes that are clacky or rattley. This can be sorted by taking it in for a lube but I've done that once before already. I don't know what Nord offers in EP sounds but the Korg eats the Roland in that department. Sorry if this is a bit off the topic of this thread.
Posted by: Siriosys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 05:43 AM

....yeah, I had exactly the same problem which is another reason why I'm thinking of getting rid of it. Mine came back from "repair" without the bottom being screwed back in too.........nearly pushed the keybed through the bottom of the piano once it was up on my stand!........... oh, and the problem has come back as well.

I'd def agree about the SV1 eating the Roland for EP's though...... in a different league

.....now back on topic.....lol
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 06:24 PM

The RD-700NX in Purgatory

Today I lugged the RD-700NX down to the PC and ran MIDI through it for various reasons. At one point I decided to run the Purgatory Creek DP Shootout MIDI file through it.

This was my first experience with the WAV recorder on the NX. It works well, producing a pretty hot signal with no clipping and a very low noise floor. It seems to apply some kind of normalization when storing the file, or perhaps it's a brick wall mastering type thing.

I noticed that the compressor affects the sound even when it is turned all the way down, so I turned it, as well as the other in-line effects, off with the dedicated button (I should have done this for the DPBSD testing). In the menus I found another in-line EQ enabled with the Concert voice, so I disabled it as well (I think it sounds better disabled). The lid default is 5, opening it a bit more doesn't change the tone too much, though it does brighten it up some. I left the lid at 5 for the Brilliant because it is already too bright and twangy (IMO).

I sequenced these in Sonar, recorded to 16 bit WAV on the NX, and converted to MP3 in Audition, no normalization or anything like that applied.

http://www.mediafire.com/?28x7i2sruysfq24 - Concert 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?envngbei19d8m44 - Concert 75%
http://www.mediafire.com/?61yuf5x2dkrui6c - Studio 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?za9pvpx3ad3guvt - Studio 75%
http://www.mediafire.com/?l4zwj0dhqabgqt1 - Brilliant 100%
http://www.mediafire.com/?89x8scxc19a53zz - Brilliant 75%

Here are the settings I used:

All:
Panel EQ: Off (w/ button)
Panel Reverb: Off (w/ button)
Panel Chorus: Off (w/ button)
Panel Compressor: Off (w/ button)
Sound Focus: Off (w/ button)

Concert:
Lid: Set to 7
Menu EQ: Off

Studio:
Lid: Set to 7

Brilliant:
No other setting changes


The average velocities in the Purgatory Creek file are way too high, it makes the Brilliant sound like a pretty bad. A shame really that their file velocities are so off, it's very difficult to use their recordings to compare anything to anything like that. The Studio can really take a pounding without sounding too bad, but the Brilliant goes over the top. I scaled the velocities 75% in Sonar and did a second recording of all three so you can hear them being played with some semblance of normality.

Let me know what you think!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 07:14 PM

Luisdent on the NX!

Over on this thread I offered to render luisdent's composition "After The Rain Has Fallen" on our RD-700NX. I used the same settings as in my previous post (all effects off) and captured the WAV files directly with the NX recording feature. Sequenced with Sonar, MP3 conversion with Audition:

http://www.mediafire.com/?v7cw3b8cchw4ypo - Concert
http://www.mediafire.com/?axryhx4251q9cgp - Studio
http://www.mediafire.com/?0gr1iams2vkxa8q - Brilliant

I like the intimate sound of the Concert with lighter notes, but the Studio sounds a little more open and it handles higher velocities without getting too twangy. The Brilliant isn't so brilliant IMO, but sounds OK played more softly. I hear a faint "springy" sound in the background of all the pianos that I don't like - it seems to be part of the samples or whatever technology they are using to construct the base voices.

IMO the NX is right at the edge of realistic enough to record solo.
Posted by: ScottishFalcon

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 07:19 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions for an amplification solution for optimized sound from the RD700NX?

The only dedicated solution for digital pianos/synths seems to be nearfield studio monitors, but they are pricey and all their science and technology seems wasted on the simple task of piano playback, when they are designed for mixing and accuracy. As I want something that flatters the sound, I did consider buying an audiophile hifi system from somewhere like richer sounds, as if I was listening to a classical piano CD, this would be the ideal solution. I am not sure about power handling capabilities though, as I do not know how hot the signal would be from a stage piano for hifi gear. If I do have to get studio monitors to make use of the XLR outputs (which some people have said sounds much better than the jack outputs), are there any monitors that would be suitable for piano playback and would showcase the NX sounds?

Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 07:54 PM

Small note, the full name is "after the rain has fallen". I just abbreviated for the midi file. :-) oops.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 07:59 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
I like the intimate sound of the Concert with lighter notes, but the Studio sounds a little more open and it handles higher velocities without getting too twangy. The Brilliant isn't so brilliant IMO, but sounds OK played more softly. I hear a faint "springy" sound in the background that I don't like - it seems to be part of the samples or whatever technology they are using to construct the base voices.

IMO the NX is right at the edge of realistic enough to record solo.


I agree completely with dewster on all these points. Brilliant isn't for me. The studio is my favorite. The concert is very nice too. I would also consider it right on the edge of solo album quality. It has all the right properties, good tone, realistic sampled sound, excellent dynamic capabilities, etc. The dynamics are probably from the fact that it isn't a 100% sampled piano. That is also why I think it has a slightly less realistic sound than the best sampled piano libraries.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It has an excellent sound, just not as realistic "forensically". This is probably the best non-100% sampled piano I've ever heard though. And I can say this, the instrument is amazing to play. With good volume on some nice monitors the piano sounds feel excellent to me.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: luisdent
Small note, the full name is "after the rain has fallen". I just abbreviated for the midi file. :-) oops.

Oops, sorry luisdent, I should have checked with you on that first. Fixed and noted.

Thanks for giving me the chance to put the NX through its paces with your nice piano piece!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: marknz
Sorry about the double entry, thought I lost the first one.

FYI you can freely edit / delete any of your own posts here.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/20/11 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: SuperSonicScotty
Does anyone have any suggestions for an amplification solution for optimized sound from the RD700NX?

The only dedicated solution for digital pianos/synths seems to be nearfield studio monitors, but they are pricey and all their science and technology seems wasted on the simple task of piano playback, when they are designed for mixing and accuracy. As I want something that flatters the sound...

For the NX I think you want a flat response, either from nearfield monitors or good hi-fi speakers. If you don't need rip-roaring volume I wonder if a small PA sub coupled to some good bookshelf satellite speakers might do the job. With a sub the sats wouldn't need to be ported, nor would they need large woofers - 6" should be plenty for decent playing volume in a normal sized room.

You only need the XLR outs if you are running the wires over longer distances (like to a mixer out in the audience). For shorter runs the 1/4" outs should work fine.

Someone really should make a high quality speaker / amp system aimed at DPs for home use and intimate / background gig settings.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 12:21 AM

I have a set of infinity alpha 50 speakers (the whole surround set actually) I got back in 2002. These are by no means inexpensive (msrp of about $800 each back then), especially if you take into account the amplifier, but they reproduce nuances to an amazing level. Everyone that hears my setup, including myself is amazed at things they didn't know existed in songs they were already familiar with.

Listening to piano on these is one of my favorite things to do. I chose infinity because they are very good at making home speakers that have flat accurate response (no "colored" sound). The alphas are good enough on their own without a sub, because they have two 8" drivers, a 5 1/4" driver and a 1" driver all in one tower speaker. But you could possibly go with the primus model, although I haven't heard them personally. They are similar to the alphas but a bit smaller in every respect, so you might want a sub with those.

If you don't want to spend that much (you need an amplifier and cables too), for home only use, I would recommend studio monitors. I have a pair of alesis m1 active mkII bi-amp studio monitors that are excellent http://www.alesis.com/m1activemkii . They are about $300 a pair now (used to be $400). But you don't need to buy an amplifier because they are powered themselves. And you only need two 1/4" or xlr connectors. This saves some money. You could buy a home amplifier and speakers with a sub, but for $400 they won't sound as close to the accurate reproduction of a piano as the monitors.

You still might want a sub with monitors like the alesis, although I haven't yet felt the need for one myself and I record solo piano. They have pretty good low frequency handling if you're not into a lot of "sub" bass.

I used to sell home audio products as my job for a few years and learned a lot. First, everything is marked up insanely high. Ha. Second, you don't always need to spend a lot. There is a strange price curve. Cheap stuff if usually very bad. I would stay away from any speakers that are so cheap they seem to good to be true. When you get into the mid price range things go up in quality very fast. If you spend a few hundred dollars you'll get much better quality. Spend another few hundred and maybe 25% more quality. It seems (to me anyway) that after that initial jump to good quality, the more you spend the smaller the difference. I've heard $2000 speakers that were very close in quality to my $800 speakers, and then $5000 speakers that weren't much better than the last. Better, but not by much. Things also tend to get smaller and have better "design" at higher prices.

Anyway, to stay on topic. I really do think powered studio monitors would be the best bang for your buck and definitely the easiest. You can probably find an amplifier with two mid sized speakers and a sub, but you'll spend at least a few hundred dollars and you'll need to setup the amp, run speakers wires and run audio cables. Not too bad, but with the monitors you just plug them direct to the keyboard with xlr or 1/4". They are also good if you need to move them or possibly use them in a jam somewhere. You can get models with protective grills, but typically they come exposed, so the only downside is that.

Lastly, don't forget a nice set of headphones. The AKG K 240 mkII series are decent for the price (around $200) and comfortable. And they are portable! :-) But they won't give you as low of a piano bass response like a nice speaker.
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 04:04 AM

For home use, monitor speakers are probably the best. I have a pair of JBL Control 2 professional near field monitors. These are mini sized monitors with a clean true sound with surprising depth to the bass for their size. Relatively inexpensive, I think the US price is around $200.00 a pair. With the new generation DPs that are around now I would stay away from keyboard amps, they don't them justice.

To all of you out there thinking about getting a 700NX and are worried about the issues that have been raised I say don't be. I got an NX the other day, spent all weekend on it and can't fault it. It's probably been said before but the flexibility with the SN sounds to taylor it to how you want them to sound is amazing. Even the Rhodes and Wurly sounds can be improved no end. (not to SV1 standard though) Plus you have all the extras - the instrumental and synth sounds are very impressive. And then there's the action... What's not to like.
Well that's my rant for the evening.
Posted by: Siriosys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 04:23 AM

Originally Posted By: marknz
... What's not to like....


......the Weight grin
Posted by: marknz

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 04:35 AM

True...
I suppose it's a little long as well.
Posted by: ScottishFalcon

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 06:04 AM

Many thanks for your replies dewster, luisdent and marknz.

Why is a flat response desirable for speakers when playing piano, but a coloured response is desirable when listening to an album of piano music? I have never understood that. If I can get one pair of speakers/monitors that will be good for both listening to CDs and playing piano, I will be very happy.

So if I am going down the monitors road, what do you think of adams, genelecs, dynaudios? I also noticed that focals have been winning awards over the last couple of years. KRK Rokit 8 seems to be the cheapest of the "good enough" range at around £400 a pair, but are they good enough do you think? A7's are around £600 a pair. BM5a's are around £800 a pair. Is it still the general consensus that actives are better than passives?

Cheers guys.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 06:08 AM

Regarding monitors for the RD. Anybody heard or know about these?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/esi_near_08_classic.htm
Good looking and with 8 inch speakers. Too cheap maybe?
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/21/11 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: SuperSonicScotty
Why is a flat response desirable for speakers when playing piano, but a coloured response is desirable when listening to an album of piano music?


That is simply an opinion. It is based on what someone likes their music to sound like. I personally like my music flat. If you have good quality monitors with flat response you will be listening to something as close as possible to the way it was recorded and intended to be heard.

High end home audio speakers usually aim at being "flat". This doesn't mean they can't pump out massive bass and screaming treble, but usually that is determined by the source material (the guy who mixed the movie's audio for instance), or by adjusting your settings/eq.

In the same way, if you want a realistic full piano sound, you want it to be played through speakers/monitors that are flat. This will ensure all the different frequencies are represented to the listener in just the right amounts that they were intended when the piano was recorded.

Hope that helps. Colored sound isn't necessarily bad, it's just not technically as "accurate". While some people prefer, others don't...
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/24/11 10:59 PM

I ran an Erik Satie MIDI file through our NX here in case anyone wants to listen to it. I'm fairly impressed with how realistic it sounds.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/26/11 07:13 PM

RD-700NX Key Sympathetic Resonance

I am always interested in how DP manufacturers emulate real pianos, so today I thought I'd do a quick test of what key sympathetic resonance sounds like on the RD-700NX and how it responds.

I played C3 (one octave below middle C) slowly so it didn't make any noise, then I played all the notes one at a time from one octave below it to one octave above it. It turns out that only the notes C, F, and G (both above and below) produce a sympathetic response to the note C on the NX. I tried this experiment on our Young Chang grand as well, and these same notes produce the strongest resonance to the note C, though other notes induce weaker resonances. So, to a first order anyway, the NX seems to emulate reality.

I decided to record this NX key sympathetic resonance a couple of ways.

First:

1. C3 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
2. G2 brief (note played and lifted).
3. F2 brief.
4. C1 brief.
5. C3 lifted, then played silently and held.
6. F3 brief.
7. G3 brief.
8. C4 brief.

Next:

1. C1, F2, and G2 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
2. C3 brief (note played and lifted).
3. C1, F2, and G2 lifted.
4. F3, G3, and C4 played softly, lifted, then played silently and held.
5. C3 brief (note played and lifted).
6. C1, F2, and G2 lifted.

So in the first test the notes F, G, and C are used to stimulate the note C; and in the second test the note C is used to stimulate the notes F, G, and C.

This is with the key sympathetic resonance turned all the way up to 127, and all other resonance effects (pedal, duplex, reverb, etc.) turned off. If anyone wants to listen to it I put the MP3 of it here:

MP3: http://www.mediafire.com/?kf80gyipxxf5oh6

[EDIT:2011-03-31]Fixed descriptions to steps 3 & 6 in the second test.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/26/11 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
RD-700NX Key Sympathetic Resonance

I am always interested in how DP manufacturers emulate real pianos, so today I thought I'd do a quick test of what key sympathetic resonance sounds like on the RD-700NX and how it responds.

I played C3 (one octave below middle C) slowly so it didn't make any noise, then I played all the notes one at a time from one octave below it to one octave above it. It turns out that only the notes C, F, and G (both above and below) produce a sympathetic response to the note C on the NX. I tried this experiment on our Young Chang grand as well, and these same notes produce the strongest resonance to the note C, though other notes induce weaker resonances. So, to a first order anyway, the NX seems to emulate reality.


Just tried it on my GEM. Like your Young Chang, notes other than C, F and G also produce some response, although very weakly in some cases, as you'd expect. The type of response also varies considerably, with some notes producing different harmonic overtones of varying intensity. Interestingly, the B and Db either side of the C create what sounds like a proximity vibration. All very realistic. Interesting that this decade-old design still trumps the NX in certain respects!
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/26/11 10:38 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Interesting that this decade-old design still trumps the NX in certain respects!

Receiving the first GEM DPBSD entry made me pretty excited. Blended layers (or whatever it is they do there), good key and pedal sympathetic resonance, long attack samples, nice string damp sound, not too badly stretched. I can see why people are / were attracted to them, they were definitely ahead of the curve. With longer loop samples they could have totally killed.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/27/11 08:56 AM

Not sure it was the length of the loop samples that really had much to do with their relative failure in the market....

I think they never caught on due to poor market recognition and presence....who in their right mind would form a company called "General Music"?!...no brand cachet at all. But ultimately, the products were unreliable. Then there was no consistency in their distribution chains around the world so owners of broken gear had no support.

I've owned a couple of their things and I always had that feeling..."I wonder when it will fail?". Not if, when.

Steve
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/27/11 11:05 AM

Yes, but both Wakeman and Emerson were happy to use GEM products on stage - not a bad endorsement, really wink

I have to agree that their marketing/distribution/support was appalling, but their research and development was excellent. I still love playing my GEM piano, and there's no other DP I've ever owned that could keep me engaged for longer than a few months - and I've been through a lot of them.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/27/11 12:16 PM

Yes I agree, they had a bit of coverage with Wakeman and Emerson and I don't doubt that the ProMega 3 for instance in concept is an impressive bit of kit. They were certainly ahead of the curve with algorithms for resonances etc. But concept and execution are two different things. Shame it never really got properly established.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/27/11 12:34 PM

Well, the good thing about the PRP is that it's only one-third of a Promega 3, so there's only a 33% chance of it going AWOL!

Seriously though, even though I've experienced very occasional freeze-ups (is it running Windows?), they are not as unreliable as you suggest. Touch wood, it's never let me down during a gig, and hopefully never will - and I don't treat it gently.

I've had a Little Phatty freeze up, too, but I'd still buy another Moog smile
Posted by: JHbackingtracks

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 04/01/11 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: B. Michels
I have a technical question: Is it possible to set the volume for the (audio or SMF) music playback by using an easier way than the EDIT>Utility>song fonctions>AUdio (or SMF) volume... menu.

Can we for example change the volume of the music playback by using a knob or the layer level Sliders ?

I want indeed to play the keyboard with a song playback in the background, and I need to EASILY adjust real time the background sound volume which by default is too loud.


Alternatively, IF it is not possible to assign the playback volume to a slider, is it possible to permanently store a lower value for playback volume set-up (default value = 127= Maximum) ?


Thanks in advance


Now that the main issue is fixed on the NX, and I'm going to be keeping it... one of my main uses for this instrument is to play over .WAV files (shame the issue hasn't been completely fixed with the WAV files though) - But I'm now at the stage where I'd like to be able to change the volume of the playback while playing the piano.... did anyone ever figure out if there's a way of changing the volume in real time do you know???? with a fader for example??

It can be done on the FP with a knob, so surely it can be done on the NX!

You asked about storing playback volume, that can be done when storing live sets smile which is good... but still it would be nice to have control over it. I noticed a quicker way is to hold down the 'select' button, and you can then change the volume with the jog wheel, but that requires 2 hands... so can't really be done while playing.

Hope we figure this one out! smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 04/01/11 10:09 AM

Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I noticed a quicker way is to hold down the 'select' button, and you can then change the volume with the jog wheel, but that requires 2 hands... so can't really be done while playing.

Wow thanks! Your "holding the button" trick works for split and transpose as well. Too bad the screen doesn't "stick" until the button is pressed again.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 04/02/11 01:22 PM

Version 1.03 of the RD-700NX firmware has fixed MIDI SYSEX data request messages! I was getting no response before to a data dump request. I updated the NX MIDI post here if anyone is interested. There is a link there to my MIDI test files too.
Posted by: Qbert

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 04/02/11 01:31 PM

Some Roland secret agent must read this forum!
Posted by: VivatRudolphus

Re: Volume of Audio/SMF playback adjustable by sliders ? - 04/02/11 01:39 PM

If that's the case, Mr. Agent, please tell your engineers to fix the strings layering issue on the FP-7F too! smirk
Posted by: scotto

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 04/08/11 02:05 AM

Sorry if I have missed it earlier in the thread, but are there any recomendations for an off the shelf hard case? Would like something that could fit the foot pedal in as well (although I do have the rpu3 which is quite large and would be a stretch). Thanks in advance.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 04/19/11 06:36 PM

UPDATE: I called Roland support regarding the missing damper noise via MIDI issue. The guy I talked to seemed very knowledgeable and he was able to replicate the problem while I was on the phone. He said it definitely was an issue and that he would immediately send a bug report to Roland engineering in Japan.
Posted by: VivatRudolphus

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 04/19/11 07:18 PM

please let them know that this applies to all SN pianos smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/09/11 01:09 PM

On the NX, you can adjust the tonewheel organ drawbars via the four sliders and the buttons above them. Pressing any button does the same thing: it switches between the upper 4 drawbars and the lower 4 drawbars.

But the center drawbar is left out of this, and I can only adjust it by laboriously (for George Jetson) arrowing over / down to it and spinning the value wheel (or using the INC/DEC buttons instead of the wheel).



Has anyone found a shortcut to adjusting the center drawbar? Not a huge pain, but it seems like a UI design oversight.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 02:20 PM

Anyone out there know if there are any extra hidden diagnostic modes for the NX?

There are two that I know of:

1. Hold down V-LINK during power-up - this shows the firmware version and performs some kind of self-check.

2. Hold down MENU & WRITE during power-up - this shows "Loading ...." with an expanding line of "..." dots as it's waiting.

I mashed all the buttons while in the above two modes and nothing happened. I also tried holding down all of the other buttons during power-up but that produced no new modes. Maybe there's a jumper inside, or an internal serial port or something.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 03:32 PM

Time on your hands, dewster? wink
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Time on your hands, dewster? wink



grin

I picture some toast being eaten at the same time as all the menu experimentation.. !
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 04:32 PM

With a glass of wine in his other hand...
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 05:53 PM

Time: no.
Toast: no.
Wine: yes, but later during reruns of "Spaced" (hence Time: no).
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 07:00 PM

dewster, have you tried pressing the long black and white buttons that run along the bottom?

James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 08:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, have you tried pressing the long black and white buttons that run along the bottom?

Good question. No, because I'm assuming (perhaps foolishly) that the keys aren't sufficiently integrated into the processor board to be something that the boot routine could easily test.

For instance, I'm pretty sure Yamaha uses a simple separate processor here in the P120, with a serial connection (MIDI?) to the processor.

I'm inching ever closer to opening the NX, the paltry 90 day warranty Roland gives us Yanks is certainly way over with. I primarily want to investigate how hard it might be to put uniformly lighter hammer weights on all the keys, but having a gander at the other guts could be informative as well.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 08:05 PM

Lighter hammer weights?

To reduce the overall weight of the instrument, or to reduce the playing weight of the keyboard action?

'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' would be my advice...

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/23/11 08:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
have you tried pressing the long black and white buttons that run along the bottom?

You mean playing? Practice? No bitching and moaning on here instead? There'd be way too many musicians crowding the psychiatric wards. It's not healthy.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
To reduce the overall weight of the instrument, or to reduce the playing weight of the keyboard action?

To eliminate grading and the latter, though the former would be very welcome too.

Last night my wife and I were eating tofu hot dogs, and it crossed my mind that this semi-accurate emulation of slaughterhouse floor scrapings is generally perceived as an accomplishment. And by vegans no less!

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' would be my advice...

You forget I have an MSEE, which is the moral equivalent to a license to kill - electronic things I'm trying to fix or improve. smile
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 01:56 AM

Hmm...if you're after a non-graded, light-ish action, perhaps consider the swapping out the NX's keyboard for something like the action in a Yamaha CP5.

However, if acoustic piano-like realism is the objective, I'd stick with the stock PHAIII action.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 05:03 AM

I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

And tofu hotdogs? Shame! There's pigs out there that were willing to lay down their lives to provide you with a decent hotdog (well, maybe not willing as such, but bred for the purpose)...
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 06:02 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

And tofu hotdogs? Shame! There's pigs out there that were willing to lay down their lives to provide you with a decent hotdog (well, maybe not willing as such, but bred for the purpose)...


Those pigs are brave aren't they..lol..
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 10:39 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

My wife injured her arms in the past on a hammer action DP and it comes back pretty quickly when playing hammer action DPs. Our grand piano also hurts her if she plays too much. Her theory is it's a combination of weight and key bounce-back that does the damage. The non-weighted DP at church doesn't seem hurt her.

She only uses the DP during teaching now and then, mainly to entice the young ones to play, otherwise it's AP all the way. And she uses the DP to practice and time her church stuff (mostly strings / organ / piano) every other week.

I'm not saying I'm dead set on altering the NX weighting, but I'll definitely take a good look at the key weight mechanism to see if it's easily modifiable.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

My wife injured her arms in the past on a hammer action DP and it comes back pretty quickly when playing hammer action DPs. Our grand piano also hurts her if she plays too much. Her theory is it's a combination of weight and key bounce-back that does the damage. The non-weighted DP at church doesn't seem hurt her.

She only uses the DP during teaching now and then, mainly to entice the young ones to play, otherwise it's AP all the way. And she uses the DP to practice and time her church stuff (mostly strings / organ / piano) every other week.

I'm not saying I'm dead set on altering the NX weighting, but I'll definitely take a good look at the key weight mechanism to see if it's easily modifiable.


I'm sure we are all going to be watching your experiment with great interest as it will be first.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 02:30 PM

Dewster, have you thought about getting an 88-key controller or other DP with a lighter action that you can MIDI to your NX? That way you keep the Roland's value intact, leave it available for when you need a fully-weighted board, and are still able to access the SN pianos.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Dewster, have you thought about getting an 88-key controller or other DP with a lighter action that you can MIDI to your NX? That way you keep the Roland's value intact, leave it available for when you need a fully-weighted board, and are still able to access the SN pianos.

Good suggestion, though that would really complicate our studio setup.

If I find the mod doable and actually go through with it, I would definitely reveal that fact any future potential buyers, but I'm not sure how obvious it the absence of hammer grading would feel to most players. It's nowhere near as obvious as the grading on our real piano.

Part of me wants get something like the Raspberry Pi minicomputer, a good set of keys, some speakers, a flight case to build it in, and just DIY my own DP and be done with all of this nonsense. All I'd need then would be a clone to actually do the work.
Posted by: kippesc

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Part of me wants get something like the Raspberry Pi minicomputer, a good set of keys, some speakers, a flight case to build it in, and just DIY my own DP and be done with all of this nonsense. All I'd need then would be a clone to actually do the work.


Do you have an off-the-shelf software piano in mind, or are you really talking about building something from the ground up? As far as software is concerned, I personally think you own the best compromise between playability and sound quality that I've yet found (though I have not played the Kawais or the V Pianos). The APs in the RD-700NX are about as responsive as Pianoteq and sound more realistic. Ivory II sounds better, but I've not gotten as much responsiveness out of it as I have from the SuperNatural APs in the RD-700NX and Pianoteq. Consequently, for practicing classical repertoire, I find that I need to use the Roland or Pianoteq. I'm hoping Pianoteq 4 will come along and shake things up. Otherwise, the next stage of improvement is looking like it will come from a V Piano 2.0.

As for Roland's "graded" keyboard, it is so subtle that I wouldn't know it was there if the spec sheet didn't say that it was.
Posted by: sullivang

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 11:15 PM

Dewster,
Have you looked at the M-Audio controllers & pianos? Some of their 88-note keyboards have semi weighted actions with internal piano sounds. If you don't like the sounds, velcro a small PC or laptop to it.

Greg.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/24/11 11:25 PM

dewster, Raspberry Pi is a great initiative (once again, British engineering leads the way!), however in its current form, I don't believe the specs are powerful enough to run virtual pianos.

If you wanted to do things properly, you'd probably be better off using an Intel-based microATX board with an SSD. The OS could be Linux based, running Ivory via WINE (I believe the Muse Receptor uses the same principle).

It would be an interesting project to buy a second-hand MP8II, remove everything but the keyboard action, then mount the microATX motherboard, a small LCD (touch screen if possible), and have it running Ivory.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/25/11 08:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
dewster, Raspberry Pi is a great initiative (once again, British engineering leads the way!), however in its current form, I don't believe the specs are powerful enough to run virtual pianos.

I'm sure it's more than powerful enough to run a virtual piano - the main impediment to it doing so is the processor target is ARM rather than Intel. SW manufacturers are loath to distribute their code uncompiled so one would either have to code a DP sound generator from the ground up, or somehow adapt open source.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/25/11 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: kippesc
The APs in the RD-700NX are about as responsive as Pianoteq and sound more realistic. Ivory II sounds better, but I've not gotten as much responsiveness out of it as I have from the SuperNatural APs in the RD-700NX and Pianoteq.

One thing I wish Roland had done with the SN pianos is open the hood for more basic tinkering, like they do with the V-Piano. Individual tuning of the unison strings for instance might help fix a few rather lifeless decays in the stock configuration. That and other adjustments might allow us to tailor a sound with more character.

Originally Posted By: kippesc
As for Roland's "graded" keyboard, it is so subtle that I wouldn't know it was there if the spec sheet didn't say that it was.

Yes the grading is subtle, though I can feel it if I compare bass keys to treble keys.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/03/11 03:36 PM

Hello folks Obviously I couldnt read through all the posts on the 700nx, I hope this has not been covered

I recently bought a 700nx as my main paino keyboard in my studio. I had to wait until today to get the pedals - eathquake problems ( you only realise what the japanese do for the world when they stop doing it - my best wishes to the nation)
Firstly, I cant get the triple pedals working with the grand and wonder whether the 700NX actually supports threee pedals - the sustain works, but I can hear no audible difference on the other two.
There is much to love about this keyboard - the build quality is superb and replaces for me a Stage which did not work out piano wise. I love the action. However, so far I cant get much of a sound from it.
I have just done a factory reset and started playing the grand in default settings, the upper register seems a little dull, its hard to get a ring out of a note. I could use a littel reverb, but if the sound is not right in the first place...

any advice welcome.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 10/03/11 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
Firstly, I cant get the triple pedals working with the grand and wonder whether the 700NX actually supports threee pedals - the sustain works, but I can hear no audible difference on the other two.

All three work on our NX.

The center pedal is sostenuto: play a note and hold it, then depress the center pedal and hold it, then lift the key - the note should behave like you are holding down the sustain pedal, but only this note. Play any other notes and they will damp at key-up.

The left pedal is the soft pedal and it is most subtle on the default piano. Try switching to Studio or Brilliant. Trill two notes continuously while listening to the difference between pedal up and down. Pedal down sounds softer to me.

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
There is much to love about this keyboard - the build quality is superb and replaces for me a Stage which did not work out piano wise. I love the action. However, so far I cant get much of a sound from it.
I have just done a factory reset and started playing the grand in default settings, the upper register seems a little dull, its hard to get a ring out of a note. I could use a littel reverb, but if the sound is not right in the first place...

The Reverb is pretty much crap, I'd leave it off. Also turn off EQ, CHORUS/DELAY, COMPRESSOR, SOUND FOCUS via the front panel. For more lushness when the damper pedal is depressed try increasing the Depth of the Sympathetic Resonance. Turn the String Resonance all the way up, Duplex Scale all the way down. Make it brighter by increasing Lid & Tone Character.

If you are listening to it through poor speakers or cheap headphones it can sound pretty lame.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/19/11 12:55 PM

Roland RD-700NX Pedal Sympathetic Resonance Issue

Oh crap.

Yesterday I was playing around with the SuperNATURAL piano voices on our Roland RD-700NX and noticed what seemed like a faint springy sound in the background. So I went into the "TONE EDIT" menu and tried turning up the "Duplex Scale" to see if that was causing it - nope. Was it the "String Resonance"? The "Key-Off Resonance"? Nope and nope. Actually it sounded kind of like the "Damper Noise" (the sound produce when the pedal is quickly depressed) but adjusting that didn't seem to change it either.

I went into the "Sym. Resonance" effect menu and turned the "Depth" all the way up - that seemed to make the springy sound louder. With the "Level" adjustment in this effect I found that I could reduce the sound of the piano notes but the springy sound level remained unaffected.

OK, so now I could clearly hear the isolated springy sound, and indeed it sounded very much like the damper noise but instead was triggering every time I played a note (with the pedal held down). Two different versions seemed to be randomly triggering, one short, one longer. I could get it to happen every time I played a single note as many times as I wanted to, but if I played other notes at some point the sound would cut out and not play again until I lifted the pedal and pushed it down again. Some kind of strict polyphony limitation seemed to be kicking in?

Listen for yourself: http://www.mediafire.com/?pcv1fwlxe4d6y9w

I normalized the levels in Adobe Audition to -1dB so you can hear it better. I also set the "Level" to 2 so that you can faintly hear the associated notes I was playing. (In the factory presets the "Level" is set much higher so the piano sound generally swamps the springy sound.)

In the first part of the recording I pressed and held the damper (right) pedal and played a MIDI C4 note (middle C) 46 times - you can hear the short and long versions of the sound playing randomly with the note. Then I walked down the white keys, and you can hear the noise stop playing after the 13th note and you don't hear it again after that until I lift the pedal and press it again for the second part.

In the second part of the recording I did pretty much the same thing with MIDI C2, then walked up. The same thing happens. Grrr!


Could anyone else try to replicate this on their NX? I've got the latest firmware v1.03 installed.

Here is how I did it:
1. Turn the NX on, the default voice "Concert Grand" should be selected automatically.
2. Press the "TONE EDIT" button under the screen.
3. Press the right arrow button (@ spinner) to see the next menu page.
4. Spin down to "3. Sym. Resonance" and press the Enter button.
5. Set the "Depth" to 127.
6. Set the "Level" to 0 (I set this to 2 in the MP3 above to hear the notes too).
7. Turn the volume slider all the way up.
8. Press the damper pedal and play some notes.
9. Lift the pedal, then press it again, then play some more notes.


What happened to good coding practices? Is no one independently and comprehensively checking each firmware release for bugs? All of the firmware issues that myself and others are experiencing lately are completely turning me off to DPs.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/19/11 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
I've got the latest firmware v1.03 installed.


No you don't. The latest version is 1.04.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/19/11 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
No you don't. The latest version is 1.04.

Doh! OK, I downloaded it and looked inside the zip file but they don't say why they released it or what it's supposed to fix. Does anyone know?

I'll update our NX and report back on this problem.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 11/19/11 03:07 PM

- v1.04 -

OK, I updated our NX to firmware version v1.04 and tested the pedal sympathetic resonance again:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0ghvdt5kr5s73kh

There's only one sound now, kind of a short snare drum sound, rather than a random selection of short and long. But it still has the limited polyphony or whatever: it disappears after playing 13 different notes, and returns after a pedaling.

What the heck?
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/18/11 12:15 PM

I just posted this over on another thread and thought it should go here too.

The "Concert Grand" voice in the RD-700NX is a complex piano sound that is fairly dark when played lightly but can get strident when pushed harder - as a result it really demands headphones or a high fidelity stereo sound system to sound good, which isn't your average PA or keyboard amp scenario.

The "Studio Grand" voice sounds like a somewhat simpler / cleaner / shorter scale grand piano that handles dynamics better. For a brighter sound, I recommend these settings (which sound pretty good through the stereo amp & speakers I put together):

Code:
Tone Character       : +3
Sym. Resonance Depth : 80
Reverb               : OFF
Chorus/Delay         : OFF
Compressor           : OFF
Sound Focus          : OFF
EQ Low               : +3 dB
EQ Low Mid           : +3 dB

Turning up the "Tone Character" brightens it up, and EQing the low end up helps bring out the somewhat anemic bass. There's almost no such thing as too much sympathetic resonance, but turning the effect past 80 or so starts to sound unnatural. The lame reverb just muddies things up so I always turn it off. Sound Focus, even if turned all the way down, can limit the dynamics, so I turn that off too.

Something I wasn't initially aware of on the NX: you can assign any patch as the default for the factory preset buttons. With the patch selected simply mash the desired preset button for a few seconds and it will be assigned, kind of like some car radios.
Posted by: HappyOnStage

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 12/20/11 09:24 PM

UPDATE ON KEY WEAR RD-700nx

I'm sure this subject has been beat to death and I've seen where some players have got their keybeds swapped out under warranty but call me crazy, I like the wear. I have had the board for a year now. I perform every weekend and practice 8+ hours a week and the slight wear is creating a surface that I can totally rip on with sweaty hands.

I was a little annoyed at the wear at first until I played my old board (standard/normal grade plastic). I did read that the key surface was built to improve with play. (not sure if that was Roland backtracking but it's true in my case)

Can't figure if it was a smart move or dangerous move for Roland because it's definitely a personal preference and I can see how it would annoy players. I guess I'm lucky cause I like it (prefer it actually).

If you're reading this and still shopping for a board - Piano sounds are fantastic and the feel is awesome, but I'm a piano player - not a keyboard player. Roland seemed to focus more on the piano for sound than keyboard, but that's my only complaint. Strings and Pads are all standard and I can get better sounds out of garageband. It wouldn't have cost Roland much more to get a few good quickfire Pad sounds - I can adjust the waves myself but would like a few good options on the fly like they did with the Piano and EP sounds. Also the Organ sounds stink, but I'm not an organ player either so even if it did have a good B3 sound - I wouldn't be able to make it sing anyway (technique I'd love to learn someday) I don't know what to do with the drawbars either other than goof around so keep that in mind with my complaint. I just hook my Mac up to it and Logic takes care of my sound gripe though.

I love the board and am very very happy. No key issues, never has locked up and I travel with it weekly = Pack up, car, unpack, play, pack up, car, unpack and play - type weekly.

It's a road warrior but hit the gym if you're low on arm and back strength. A great board like this with a case makes for a very heavy traveler - wheels on your case are an absolute 100% requirement.



Posted by: Pete the bean

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 01/01/12 10:33 PM

It has been a while since I have posted at pianoworld. But there is a new member in my family so I thought I would share. I have had my RD700NX for about a month and a half. And what a great machine! The user interface seems quick and easy compared to other boards I have used.

I joined a band after years of hibernation. My wife thinks it is a really bad case of mid life crisis. She might be right, but it is fun.

I have two set ups. At home, I run the RD through logic and use Logic effects, piano hard compression, grand piano1 EQ, Clean tube amp(american,DI box settings) and reverb set to wooden verve. Sounds great through the monitors! Very close to Ivory quality.

For the live rig, I had to upgrade to a better amp because the drummer is loud and I am competing with 2 guitarists. I ended up with a pair of QSC K10's. These monitors were built with keyboard in mind. Lots of watts in a small speaker and sound better than all the big name monitors I tried. They mean it when they say K is for keyboard. None of the boxy sound most amps give on grand piano patch. It all fits in a small car with the back seat folded down.


The organ sounds are so good on the RD I sold my Roland VK8. I do not have to adjust the draw bars on the fly for the work in the band so the RD works well. However,it seems that to use a pedal to kick on the rotary horn, and a pedal for volume control, the patch has to be saved to Live Set. There does not seem to be a global setting for pedal functions. Did I miss something in the manual?

I have started having issues with the keyboard not getting a key off or pedal off command. Sometimes a certain note or several notes will not stop sustaining. The only way to get it to stop is to change patches. I have disconnected the USB to see if it happens when the Keyboard is not connected to the computer and so far it would seem the issue is with Logic and the RD. Logic does sometimes get hiccups when using other applications at the same time. The sustained notes never happened with the Motif. Any one else experience this?

As far as the weight, the RD is half the weight of the keyboards from the 1970's and 30 pounds less than the Motif 8 it replaced.
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 08:52 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: sullivang
The authentic coloration of grand-piano keys can also been seen on the sides of the white keys.

Is this all the -S really boils down to? No fake wood color on the sides of the white keys?

If so, who cares - If not, I do.


I haven't read the entire thread but was interested in this.
I have had two Rolands, an RD300s, (slipperykeys) and a RD700NX that I now play.
The keys of the 300s were lead weighted, like authentic acoustic piano keys,

Scroll down a few pics..
http://www.svend.net/roland-rd300s/roland-rd300s.html

The FP7 is described as "one-piece", no way does that imply the quality of the PHA III.

It could well be therefore, that the difference is far more than cosmetic.

"...The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material ..."

Hmm.... RD700 NX wins it for me, despite being hideous, useless for putting music on, the stupid joy-stick, (show me a pianist wasting the left hand on a joy-stick and I believe you are showing me a person who is not a pianist!!)

Mine has other problems, there is a very unpleasant click on many tone-wheel organs and Acoustic Bass 3, to name but a few, when the key is released.

I could whine on at length about what I dislike about it, but I would still buy it again as it was the nearest thing to perfection other than a V-Piano which I simply can't afford.

As I play virtually only the piano voices, with a bit of string quartet for fun, it doesn't matter much, anyway.

That joy-stick..... was anything ever more inappropriately named?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 09:28 AM

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
The FP7 is described as "one-piece", no way does that imply the quality of the PHA III.

It could well be therefore, that the difference is far more than cosmetic.

"...The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material ..."

Hmm.... RD700 NX wins it for me

I think the RD700NX and FP7F use the same keys.

I think the FP7 was the same, except with the glossier feel and without the third sensor.

Maybe someone else here can confirm that my memory is correct on these things.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
RD700 NX wins it for me, despite being hideous, useless for putting music on, the stupid joy-stick, (show me a pianist wasting the left hand on a joy-stick and I believe you are showing me a person who is not a pianist!!)

The FP-7F is basically the "straight piano" version of the RD-700NX, the latter being designed as having the additional functions of more of a multi-purpose device. Except for the odd decision of also putting a larger quantity of different piano sounds in the 700 than the 7, which somewhat runs contrary to that product differentiation.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
there is a very unpleasant click on many tone-wheel organs and Acoustic Bass 3, to name but a few, when the key is released.

I don't know whether this is what they're aiming for (not having played these sounds on the 700), but in the interest of realism. emulations of tone-wheel organs often do exhibit a bit of key click upon key release.


Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
I could whine on at length about what I dislike about it, but I would still buy it again as it was the nearest thing to perfection other than a V-Piano which I simply can't afford.

As I play virtually only the piano voices, with a bit of string quartet for fun, it doesn't matter much, anyway.

Sounds like the FP-7F might have been closer to what you're looking for? Unless you are using piano voices that are absent on the 7F.


Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
That joy-stick..... was anything ever more inappropriately named?

Seemed like the right name for it on my Atari 2600...
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I think the RD700NX and FP7F use the same keys.


Right and wrong. Exactly the same action, different keys. RD has the key under-structure in a different plastic to simulate the appearance of wood along the sides of the white keys. FP has all white keys with what would appear to be a slightly less textured and slightly whiter (and a good deal more resilient it would seem) version of the ivory-feel surface.

If the FP's SN pianos didn't twang horribly at medium velocities and above it would pretty much be the perfect thing, given its price point. Unless you like vintage EPs (the FP's are dire).

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 10:02 AM

The 7F doesn't have the wood-effect color on the sides of the keys. Apart from that, the action is essentially identical to that on the RD-700NX, as far as anyone knows. They are both described by Roland as PHAIII. Some people have reported a slightly different feel, but I suspect that is mainly down to the 7F having on-board speakers, and possibly slightly different processing.

The reason I chose a 7F rather than the NX was down to the relative dimensions. That extended left flank makes the RD a very unwieldy board. I used to have the RD-300SX, which was pretty much the same length, only narrower - and a lot lighter. That was manageable, although it could be problematic in smaller vehicles. But combine that length with the 700's weight and depth, and you have a very awkward package. And yes, I could count on the fingers of one (left!) hand the number of times I used that awful Roland joystick. However there are some additional sounds in the RD that are much better than the lame offerings in the 7F. The FP-7F should be primarily considered as an acoustic piano substitute - and nothing else, IMO.

Nice pics of the 300S restoration!
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 10:07 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
That extended left flank makes the RD a very unwieldy board...And yes, I could count on the fingers of one (left!) hand the number of times I used that awful Roland joystick.


Totally agree. The form factor of it is totally wrong. The lack of symmetry bugs the heck out of me - and it's all for something that is completely useless to a pianist - the pitch-bend/mod stick. It has been a Roland thing for years now. But what were they thinking??

You can have the functionality just fine if you need it in the way Yamaha and Kawai do it - two wheels above the bass keys. Roland needs to sort that out for the next generation!
Posted by: Per Baekgaard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 10:38 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace

RD has the key under-structure in a different plastic to simulate the appearance of wood along the sides of the white keys. FP has all white keys with what would appear to be a slightly less textured and slightly whiter (and a good deal more resilient it would seem) version of the ivory-feel surface.


Originally Posted By: voxpops

The 7F doesn't have the wood-effect color on the sides of the keys.


I've had my RD700NX keys replaced. I think on the surface they look a lot more like the FP-7F keys; more white and non-scratching.

However, they still have the "wooden" colour on the side.

I had thought mine were FP-7F keys, possibly slightly remodelled to fit the RD700NX, but apparently they must be a variation of the stock RD700NX keys then.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace

If the FP's SN pianos didn't twang horribly at medium velocities and above it would pretty much be the perfect thing, given its price point. Unless you like vintage EPs (the FP's are dire).


Steve, maybe I should have known already -- but are the FP-7F's EP's the same modeled ones as in the RD700NX, or some other version (SN or non-SN)?

As for the twang, the RD700NX obviously offers the Studio Grand as an alternative to those not liking the Concert Grand. Could have been interesting, as others have pointed out, to have had the Studio Grand based samples/SN-model instead in the FP-7F.


-- Per.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 10:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Per Baekgaard
are the FP-7F's EP's the same modeled ones as in the RD700NX, or some other version (SN or non-SN)?

No, they are fixed-effect, non-SN EPs that pretty much suck, unless you like a kind of "soft-brassy" EP or something out of an 80s rompler.

Edit: AFAIK, most EP players want authentic Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds. Yamaha used to try to foist FM EPs on us all the time, but they have now seen the light. Kawai now has a couple of great EPs. Roland seems to think that a watered-down version of the old SA synthesis EP, plus a few low-end samples will suffice for everything other than the RDs. The main EP in the FP-4 was actually substantially better than that in the 7F. On the plus side, the Wurlitzer samples are usable, if not great.

Quote:
As for the twang, the RD700NX obviously offers the Studio Grand as an alternative to those not liking the Concert Grand. Could have been interesting, as others have pointed out, to have had the Studio Grand based samples/SN-model instead in the FP-7F.

I would much rather have had the Studio Grand in place of ALL the non-SN sounds in the 7F. (Edit: the acoustic bass sound is actually quite good, and I'm finding it useful for gigs with LH bass, mainly played from the FP-4, which shares the same sound.)
Posted by: toddy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 11:16 AM

On the HP 302 - sound engine identical to the HP305, and similar to all Roland HP pianos with SN sound generators - the best EP is stuck away with the general midi range of instruments, and not available in the EP bank at all. It is number 53 under 'other' (GM) and has three very typical layers of response from a Fender Rhodes (not, however, blended at all!). The EPs in the EP bank are indeed rather lack-lustre.

Question: might it be possible to upgrade or substantially change the software version inside these (Roland HP/ FP etc) instruments? And might such an update be able to include this extremely interesting Studio Grand, available in the RD700NX?

And if such a thing were possible, would that be with Roland's help and approval, or would you have to be, to some extent, naughty?
Posted by: Per Baekgaard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops

No, they are fixed-effect, non-SN EPs that pretty much suck, unless you like a kind of "soft-brassy" EP or something out of an 80s rompler.


That is really too bad.

The RD700NX EP's are not particularly stellar, but I've come to find them usable with a few tweaks. For live playing, I've been surprised how well they actually have worked for me (but maybe my expectations were really low). Even those I found rather weak initially turns out to cut through pretty well when needed. But the adjustments required are not always easy to figure out; it is a bit of hit-and-miss/trial-and-error tweaking approach.

They don't sound particularly like the Nord ones -- and I think Nord actually has better effects and emulations. But they add variation to the palette, obviously, when used with a Nord.


-- Per.
Posted by: Per Baekgaard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 11:26 AM

Originally Posted By: toddy
On the HP 302 [...] the best EP is stuck away with the general midi range of instruments, and not available in the EP bank at all. It is number 53 under 'other' (GM)


What is the name of that sample? Just wondering if it is also elsewhere on other Rolands.

Quote:

Question: might it be possible to upgrade or substantially change the software version inside these (Roland HP/ FP etc) instruments? And might such an update be able to include this extremely interesting Studio Grand, available in the RD700NX?


My guess is that each piano model is 1) a set of parameters (kind of "a program") that is part of the upgradeable flash, plus 2) a large set of samples that are probably in ROM or some more resilient part of the memory that cannot be upgraded.

So I would not have my hopes to high for this to happen, unfortunately.


-- Per.
Posted by: toddy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 12:38 PM

Per asked:

What is the name of that sample? Just wondering if it is also elsewhere on other Rolands.

The sound I was referring to (patch 53 in the 'other' bank) is called simply 'E. Piano 1', which is not much help, is it? This is an interesting set of samples - although the jump from one velocity level to the next is pretty shocking.

However, there is a more practically usable patch (at number 55 on my Roland HP302) called 'Vintage EP' which is a good set of Rhodes samples - subtly different from 'Vintage EP' in the EP bank itself! Very curious...
Posted by: Per Baekgaard

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
The sound I was referring to (patch 53 in the 'other' bank) is called simply 'E. Piano 1', which is not much help, is it? This is an interesting set of samples - although the jump from one velocity level to the next is pretty shocking.

However, there is a more practically usable patch (at number 55 on my Roland HP302) called 'Vintage EP' which is a good set of Rhodes samples - subtly different from 'Vintage EP' in the EP bank itself! Very curious...


From your description, it sounds like the former could be similar to 046 "E.Piano 3" in the RD700NX. It has 3 very abrupt levels, and some other weirdness (like the G below middle C, where the panning changes a bit depending on how hard you play it). But I agree, it isn't too bad and could be used in a pinch.

There is also another sample, 072 "E.Piano 1" IIRC, but it sounds more like a two layer sample only -- so I doubt that's the one.

There is no "Vintage EP", but 074 is called "EP Legend 1" -- which has bit more bell-character compared to the others. But obviously as the names are different, the order probably also is.


However, on the RD700NX, I think the SN EPianos all have more life and character than the samples, when compared without any additional effects. Despite experimenting with the sample based ones, I've never really used them for any live playing. But maybe the one you refer to above could actually work well in some settings -- would like to try that some day.

But I'd guess you'd rather grab your real Rhodes :-) I no longer have mine (an old Suitcase)...


-- Per.
Posted by: toddy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/09/12 06:37 PM

Per,

It's a nice idea you imagine there - that I'd rather grab my real Rhodes. But a couple of years ago my son borrowed it for his band's rehearsal room. But a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then and I no longer have a car to bring it home again (funny how things never seem to move unless you can do it yourself!)

But in any case, my own Fender Rhodes, much though I love it, always sounded pretty flabby. I tried and tried to get it sounding lively and crisp, but never really managed.

As for the Roland EPs - well they are a bonus to the piano - the best ones are not too bad but could be much better done, and better organised in the system. But I'm not complaining as they are passable and, like the orchestral stuff - can be used with care.

Imperfect though it is, I really love the SN sound - would be nice to hear the Studio Grand, though.
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 09:27 AM

Hi all!
I have recently bought a Rd-700nx and it is to arrice any day now laugh I have been five times to te music shop primarily checking out the key action and feel that the 700nx excels the Yamaha CP5 (making me feel unsafe), Nord Piano (somehow keaboardy IMHO) and Kawai MP10 (smooth but wobbly). Further the SN piano of 700nx features a very dynamic and resolved middle section which I really liked; you can make it "sing" easily without creating a too brilliant of narrow tembre. I'm really looking forward to start practicing again.

But now to my question: Is there any chance to have an external (MIDI command) switch increase the used liveset number. I think it would be a great feature to have a footswitch do the job instead of lifting a hand from the keyboard.

Kind regards
mimesot
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 09:28 AM

Hi all!
I have recently bought a Rd-700nx and it is to arrive any day now laugh I have been five times to te music store primarily checking out the key action and I feel that the 700nx excels the Yamaha CP5 (making me feel unsafe), Nord Piano (somehow keaboardy IMHO) and Kawai MP10 (smooth & elegant but wobbly). Further the SN piano of 700nx features a very dynamic and resolved middle section which I really liked; you can make it "sing" easily without creating a too brilliant of narrow tembre. I'm really looking forward to start practicing again.

But now to my question: Is there any chance to have an external (MIDI command) switch for moving on to the next liveset? I think it would be a great feature to have a footswitch do the job instead of lifting a hand from the keyboarda aiming for the increase button.

Is there any other handy way of changing between livesets, like programming a key for such operations?

Kind regards
mimesot
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 11:31 AM

You can use a pedal, but you have to set the pedals to system mode for it to work. This will override the pedal functions that are programmed into each Live Set, you can't have it both ways.

To do this: press MENU, open the first menu on the list. Set pedal mode to "system", then press Tone Edit to select live set up/down. It's at the end of the list.
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 12:00 PM

Thank you very much!

That means I cannot switch just one of the three pedals to system mode, but only all at once, right?

Something else. I haven't tested that myselt as I am foremost a piano player but I'm curious: When you hold a chord with the sustain pedal and moce onto a new liveset, does that chord still sound with the old tone or will it transform to the tone of the new liveset? Further, is the sustained chord affeced by any following effects, pitch bends or whatsoever?
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 12:10 PM

Awesome. I'm sure you're going to love the heck out of that board. It definitely has the best action of any keyboard I've tried. I think the nord has the most realistic pianos hands down, but the roland is probably second best. All in all the roland is a more flexible board too. Enjoy. smile
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/05/12 12:48 PM

Originally Posted By: mimesot
Thank you very much!

That means I cannot switch just one of the three pedals to system mode, but only all at once, right?
Yes, only the damper pedal is unaffected.

Originally Posted By: mimesot
Something else. I haven't tested that myselt as I am foremost a piano player but I'm curious: When you hold a chord with the sustain pedal and moce onto a new liveset, does that chord still sound with the old tone or will it transform to the tone of the new liveset? Further, is the sustained chord affeced by any following effects, pitch bends or whatsoever?
It will still sound, but will use the effect settings of the new Live Set. So it's not completely seamless. Pitch bend still works.

The virtual tone wheel organs (not the sampled organs) are special in that they don't sustain, but you can switch between them and any held notes will just switch over to the new sound. Which makes sense, I guess.
Posted by: ChazG

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 03:33 AM

Hello all,

I have seen the possibilities that this keyboard can do when it comes to digital piano sounds.

I also like the roland upright digital pianos that have good supernatural piano sounds. I even find the Yamaha Portable Grand DGX-500 to have great piano sounds.

I am still deciding if I should get the RD-700NX. I am so used to playing a upright acoustic piano; and I want a keyboard that has the feel and sound of a real piano.

Thank you,
Pkeys
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: torhu
Yes, only the damper pedal is unaffected.

It will still sound, but will use the effect settings of the new Live Set. So it's not completely seamless. Pitch bend still works.


That somehow sound's really unintiutive to me. Did Roland never think of a simple way (i.e. without hands) of changing the tone? It is called a stage piano, so I just wonder if they didn't consider the necessity of switching sounds in a hurry. Let me ask, what is the smoothest way of doing so?

Originally Posted By: ChazG
Hello all,
I am still deciding if I should get the RD-700NX. I am so used to playing a upright acoustic piano; and I want a keyboard that has the feel and sound of a real piano.


I think it depends on what you consider a real piano. There are many acoustic pianos much worse than the stage-pianos of that price region. I'd probably prefer anyof these to e.g. the Schimmel upright i played lately. But one shouldpossibly never try to compare stage-pianos to any elaborated grand. Additionally personal taste relativates any rankings anyway, so as usual personl favour is most important for the final decision.
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Pete the bean
For the live rig, I had to upgrade to a better amp because the drummer is loud and I am competing with 2 guitarists. I ended up with a pair of QSC K10's.


TWO K10s needed to compete with your bandmates? I hope you also invested in some high quality earplugs to protect your hearing!
Posted by: Aidan

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: voxpops
That extended left flank makes the RD a very unwieldy board...And yes, I could count on the fingers of one (left!) hand the number of times I used that awful Roland joystick.


Totally agree. The form factor of it is totally wrong. The lack of symmetry bugs the heck out of me - and it's all for something that is completely useless to a pianist - the pitch-bend/mod stick. It has been a Roland thing for years now. But what were they thinking??

You can have the functionality just fine if you need it in the way Yamaha and Kawai do it - two wheels above the bass keys. Roland needs to sort that out for the next generation!


Also, in my experience the wedge shape of the RD series, combined with back-heaviness, makes it far more awkward to handle than, say the CP5, which is the same weight but has more square edges and more even weight distribution.

Alas, Roland has been wedded to that joystick for decades and seem very proud of it. I think the chances of them abandoning the concept are close to nil. Could be worse - at least they haven't put a D-Beam on it!
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: mimesot
Originally Posted By: torhu
Yes, only the damper pedal is unaffected.

It will still sound, but will use the effect settings of the new Live Set. So it's not completely seamless. Pitch bend still works.


That somehow sound's really unintiutive to me. Did Roland never think of a simple way (i.e. without hands) of changing the tone? It is called a stage piano, so I just wonder if they didn't consider the necessity of switching sounds in a hurry. Let me ask, what is the smoothest way of doing so?



May I ask an additional question: Can I use the Midi-In for transmitting system commands? If so, is it possible to create/buy a device that sends one single command upon e.g. hitting a button?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: mimesot
Can I use the Midi-In for transmitting system commands? If so, is it possible to create/buy a device that sends one single command upon e.g. hitting a button?

If MIDI-In allows system commands (and I don't see why it shouldn't), the MIDI Solutions Event Processor will allow you to program any MIDI command to be translated to any other - i.e. you just need a switch of some sort capable of sending any kind of MIDI message. In the past I have even used the lowest note on a DP to trigger a series of such commands using the Event Processor (the only problem was pressing it slowly enough so that it didn't sound).
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 03:28 PM

You can use MIDI for switching sounds. Some other things too, but it depends on what exactly you want to do.

You can download the manual here, click on the Support page.

As for the other questions, you can easily figure them out when you get your NX wink
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 04:48 PM

This is really helpful, thanks a lot!

Yeah, I somehow feel like a six-year-old before christmas eve, barely capable of staying calm laugh
Posted by: luisdent

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: ChazG
I am still deciding if I should get the RD-700NX. I am so used to playing a upright acoustic piano; and I want a keyboard that has the feel and sound of a real piano.

Thank you,
Pkeys


Nothing beats the nord piano's upright samples (or grand samples) for onboard sounds, but it does not feel like an upright piano.

The 700nx actually feels a lot like my old henry f. miller upright piano. Honestly, it feels better. The action of my real piano is un-maintained, but in good condition, however over the last 25 years of me playing it every single day (not to mention whoever had it before me) the action has become more light in feel. The roland is very very similar to a very well broken in upright piano, but with the added benefit of being well regulated (digital piano wise).

I haven't tried more expensive roland digital pianos that mimic the feel of a real piano, so I can't speak for those. But at the price range, you can't beat the 700nx for key feel anywhere in my opinion. And the SN pianos are great and very enjoyable to 'feel' as you play them. Although, my dream is a nord piano controlled by a 700nx... :-)
Posted by: toddy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 05:13 PM

Isn't the keyboard in the RD700NX the best one that Roland actually do? Namely, the PHA III keyboard, same as in HP507, LX 15, V-Piano as well as the cheaper FP7f.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/06/12 05:19 PM

Some have suggested that the V-Piano (and presumably the V-Grand) has a slightly different version of PHAIII. Frankly, I doubt it. I suspect that the difference perceived is related to the V's better key/sound connection, which (I believe) is governed by more than the 127 steps that MIDI is limited to.
Posted by: bsl100

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 08/07/12 01:25 AM

As far as key action goes, if the PHAIII action is same in the the 700NX and V-Piano, does the overall weight of the DP have an effect on how the keys behave?
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/12 05:50 AM

Originally Posted By: bsl100
As far as key action goes, if the PHAIII action is same in the the 700NX and V-Piano, does the overall weight of the DP have an effect on how the keys behave?

I personally don't think that weight of the piano directly relates to the weight of the key construction and therefore to the key action. Nevetheless a heavy piano will have a different behaviour on the stand, more precisely oscillations will need more forceful plying to occur but therefore last longer.

----------------------------------------------------
I have had a few weeks now to test the 700nx and I am really happy to possess that magnificent piano now, which I bought together with a very stable stand, Beyerdynamic DT770 80Ohm headphones and the RPU3 pedal unit for 2700€ in a nice little shop in vienna.

What I like best about the piano is the key action. It proved superior to its direct contestors the Yamaha CP5, the Kawai MP10 and the Nord Piano 2. The escapement mechanism seems really well-engineered to me. I am not sure how escapement generally affects playing, but i think it that the finger can sense its velocity and adjust the force in the final moment before the sensor detects the action ... CAN THIS BE A CORRECT EXPLANATION? Nevertheless the 700nx escapement allows a really nuanced pianissimo play, which makes it really satisfying and fun to do. I think that the weight grading of the keys could be stronger, but actually it doesn't affect playing in any negative way. I also like the touch, which offers a good grip and feels neither too slick nor porously (to explain what i mean by porous: for my taste the kawai key surfaces feel like being a mixture of paper and porclain). I think there are lots of pianos (including acoustic) that have a the 700nx is able to surpass easily.

The sounds are good, bit I have to admit, that I believe this is less important in times of computer aided sound generation or midi expanders. The SN piano sounds are outstanding in my opinion, but I would not dare to compare them to my ~1900 Hölzl & Heitzmann grand piano. The sounds are 'full bodied' clean and have hardly any recognizable traces of artificial creation. I have too little experience to judge the electric pianos, but I like the tine e-piano veery much. From the general banks, the samples are sometimes nice and sometimes crappy. Sounds like guitars, the single violin, or the flute are simply unsatisfying. DOES SOMEONE HAVE CREATED A GOOD E.G. ELECTRIC GUITAR FROM THE TONES YET?

One thing that is notanle is, that it is not possible to make smppt transitions between presets. While the keys held by pedal keep on creating the right tones after a preset change, the volumes and effects change to the new parameters. The effect control with the additional pedals is great fun.The pedal assignments are individual for each preset, but the access to these are in the menu and not in the layer edit section, which is simply illogical to me.

Further I like the design very much, the interface is, as often states, a no-brainer indeed, the weight is tolerable and anything else is simply not tested yet, so I can only conclude by saying: This was a really great purchase.
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/07/12 02:58 PM

I'll just answer the easiest question grin
Originally Posted By: mimesot
The pedal assignments are individual for each preset, but the access to these are in the menu and not in the layer edit section, which is simply illogical to me.

Just hold SHIFT and press the pedal you want to configure. There are some useful shortcuts involving the SHIFT key, or sometimes just holding down a key. There is no list of shortcuts in the manual, but it's easy to just try all the possibilites and try to remember the most useful ones that you discover. That's what I did.
Posted by: dotted eigth

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/12 10:21 AM

Will Roland be releasing a new RD 700 series soon? I know the NX was released about 2 years ago and chances are remote; I have a SX and planning to upgrade, but of course want the latest and greatest board available. Any info is greatly appreciated.
Posted by: mimesot

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/12 11:03 AM

Thank you very much! How did you come across that shortcut ... is there a good thread on shortcuts? by accident? I believe it is not mentioned in the manual.

Greetings
mimesot
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/08/12 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: mimesot
Thank you very much! How did you come across that shortcut ... is there a good thread on shortcuts? by accident? I believe it is not mentioned in the manual.

It's briefly mentioned on page 11 that there are shortcuts like this. Other than that, I think I had to use trial and error. SHIFT+CONTROL/LAYER LEVEL is another good one. Shows the fader assignments.

Someone should write a blog post with a list of these things.
Posted by: premium_devil

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/12 01:18 AM

Hi Dewster,

I am new here.
I have been reading this thread from the front pages.
But it is a long discustion and until the last page I read, I have not found some conclusion regarding the keys.
So, I decided to ask you, the guru of this keyboard, directly.. laugh

1. for the key, is it made of solid wood and covered with synthetic ivory?
I saw before in music store, it has wood pattern at both sides of the keys but I am not sure whether it is just a lamintaion or solid wood.

2. SuperNatural, is it a modelling technology or still sampling technology but the sample sounds go to some processing steps?

3. How is the strings and guitar sounds in RD700NX?

4. Comparing it with Clavinova CLP440 and Kurzweil SP4-8, whose keys is heavier?
those are pianos that I have ever tried before.
well, I have ever tried the keys of RD700NX but it was not side by side comparison with those two boards so I am confused my self.stupid me...:D

5. How do you compare it with it's lil brother RD300NX?
is the keyboard in RD300NX hammer action type one?

sorry for too much question laugh

thanks
Posted by: toddy

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/12 06:06 AM

Hi premium_devil. Look, I am not Dewster, and do not pretend to have his knowledge but I think these are fairly accurate general answers. Dewster (or another) will correct any errors later.

Quote:
Hi Dewster,

I am new here.
I have been reading this thread from the front pages.
But it is a long discustion and until the last page I read, I have not found some conclusion regarding the keys.
So, I decided to ask you, the guru of this keyboard, directly.. laugh

1. for the key, is it made of solid wood and covered with synthetic ivory?
I saw before in music store, it has wood pattern at both sides of the keys but I am not sure whether it is just a lamintaion or solid wood.

No, it's not wood, it's all plastic.

2. SuperNatural, is it a modelling technology or still sampling technology but the sample sounds go to some processing steps?

It's sampling with some advanced processing, yes. You could call it a hybrid system, using some elements of Roland's totally modelled V system.

3. How is the strings and guitar sounds in RD700NX?

Don't know how to answer this since I don't have this keyboard. But on my (inferior) HP302, they are very good but not fantastic - as you'd expect from Roland. RD700 should be significantly better.

4. Comparing it with Clavinova CLP440 and Kurzweil SP4-8, whose keys is heavier?

CLP 440 - heaviest.
RD700NX - light but well balanced piano simulation.
Kurzweil - very light, not very piano-like.



5. How do you compare it with it's lil brother RD300NX?
is the keyboard in RD300NX hammer action type one?

RD300NX is hammer type action (ivory feel G), but not in the same class as PHAIII (found on RD700NX). The 300 is a lighter instrument for carrying round to gigs more easily, I suppose.
Posted by: torhu

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/12 07:22 AM

Originally Posted By: premium_devil
3. How is the strings and guitar sounds in RD700NX?

There are several good string sounds, and you can easily combine them to get close to the kind of sound you want. Marcatos and pizzicatos are included, you can set them to trigger at only high velocities and things like that.

The classical guitar sounds sound good in the middle and lower register. And the overdrive/distortion guitars are pretty good. There are no fancy features like overtones, feedbacks, or glissandis, you would have to do that by mixing multiple layers. The muted fuzz guitar sound is bad, but you can probably mix it with other sounds to make it almost usable. Maybe that's Roland intention with it. Other guitar sounds are less good.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/20/12 10:49 AM

Originally Posted By: premium_devil
1. for the key, is it made of solid wood and covered with synthetic ivory?
I saw before in music store, it has wood pattern at both sides of the keys but I am not sure whether it is just a lamintaion or solid wood.

The keys are hollow brown plastic with the faux ivory glued to the top and front. You can see some pictures of the keys in my disassembly post.

Originally Posted By: premium_devil
2. SuperNatural, is it a modelling technology or still sampling technology but the sample sounds go to some processing steps?

My best guess is they use samples for the attacks and some kind of physical synthesis for the decays (string simulators stimulated by the attack samples). So there is no looping like in most DPs. You can read more about the sound in my review post.

Originally Posted By: premium_devil
3. How is the strings and guitar sounds in RD700NX?

Strings could be better IMO. A lot of string samples in there but none seem as useful as the string voices in our old Yamaha P120. Haven't played with the guitar sounds much.
Posted by: premium_devil

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 09/22/12 07:39 AM

Toddy, Torhu, Dewster...many thanks to all you guys.

Went to the music store yesterday but was not able to try it...sad..
But I think I will buy this board on monday.

thanks guys.


edit:
I finally bought it.
I am happy with it though the sound is muffled to me and the timbre change is not that clear to hear.
but after some time of playing and listening, I think it does sound good. I think I am getting used to it.

Not like Kawai and Yamaha, since they have their manufacturing plant here, the price in Indonesia is just same like in US for Roland.
It still has OS v 1.4 or 1.6 I forgot.

Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/05/13 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: dotted eigth
Will Roland be releasing a new RD 700 series soon? I know the NX was released about 2 years ago and chances are remote; I have a SX and planning to upgrade, but of course want the latest and greatest board available. Any info is greatly appreciated.

Feb 2013 now, and NX was released Sep 2010. Any rumblings of new hardware?
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/05/13 02:22 PM

I wouldn't mind being privy to that info myself. I certainly like the 700NX and have often considered getting it for something different to my Nord or CP5, when I owned that. But that horrible metallic noise, when accented, on the Ab & A the +5 and 6th above middle C, kills it for me. Yes I know it's not on the Studio Grand piano but still....

Maybe in the fall after the 700NX has been out a full 3 years I'm guessing.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/05/13 08:51 PM

Hmm, looking at the Roland page, it's now listed as "RD-700NX Version 2", and I am guessing that is referring to the software update in Aug/Sep 2012, so maybe that was the refresh ...
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/06/13 04:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
But that horrible metallic noise, when accented, on the Ab & A the +5 and 6th above middle C, kills it for me. Yes I know it's not on the Studio Grand piano but still....


Spot on. This just RUINS all Roland SN pianos - every single SN sound does it on every single SN Roland DP other than (it would appear) the Studio Grand on the RD-700NX. I really wish they'd fix this issue then it wouldn't take much to persuade me back into the Roland fold.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/06/13 05:30 AM

If you have a NX its no issue ...because you have the studio grand wink
Posted by: Deltron

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/06/13 05:43 PM

I had a deal to buy the NX from a guy, but he backed out last minute. I really want this piano but can't afford the full store price, bumming out on that.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/06/13 06:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Deltron
I really want this piano but can't afford the full store price, bumming out on that.


Could possibly help with that...pm me if interested.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/08/13 03:32 AM

I saw a forum reference about "Stretch Tuning -50-0-+50" for the RD-700NX, but it's not mentioned in the manual (or at least the PDF I found). Was this added with an update possibly? (I saw the very-manual-looking-process fine tuning control.)
Posted by: zapper

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/08/13 05:33 AM

Originally Posted By: xorbe
I saw a forum reference about "Stretch Tuning -50-0-+50" for the RD-700NX, but it's not mentioned in the manual (or at least the PDF I found). Was this added with an update possibly? (I saw the very-manual-looking-process fine tuning control.)


get a tuner and he will stretch it up.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/19/13 10:55 PM

So with the discontinuation of the FP-7F, I wonder if the RD-700NX will be far behind ...
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/20/13 10:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
If you have a NX its no issue ...because you have the studio grand wink


It's no issue for me anyway. I can't hear any such problem and nor can anyone else I talk to. All notes are completely even in tone to me. Nobody has ever complained about the piano tones, in fact quite the opposite. All the comments I have had have been admiration for the sound of the piano.

My RD 700NX was bought in August 2011 and has had both software updates applied.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/21/13 12:46 AM

Got home tonight to find that UPS left a sizable present with the family today. I was a little worried because the box was breached, but all is well. It's very nice! cool I can hear that little metallic twang in Concert that rises a little at certain mid velocities -- that's called character! This is a slight step up from my PX-330, one might say. grin And dang that thing is heavy. I do miss the on-board midi recording of the Casio (bust out the laptop, eh.) Anyways, back to grinding through the manual.
Posted by: dewster

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/21/13 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: xorbe
Got home tonight to find that UPS left a sizable present with the family today. I was a little worried because the box was breached, but all is well. It's very nice! cool I can hear that little metallic twang in Concert that rises a little at certain mid velocities -- that's called character! This is a slight step up from my PX-330, one might say. grin And dang that thing is heavy. I do miss the on-board midi recording of the Casio (bust out the laptop, eh.) Anyways, back to grinding through the manual.

Congrats xorbe! The box to ours looked like it was kicked in, luckily the NX was fine.

You won't spend much time in the manual, the UI is quite intuitive. There are a couple of undocumented things (IIRC) which are quite handy that have to do with pressing and holding a button. The main preset buttons work this way, pick whatever voice you want and edit it, then press and hold the button and it will be stored as the default for that button.

For the SN APs, turn the reverb off and turn the sympathetic resonance up to at least 80.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/21/13 09:55 AM

I second Dewster's suggestion regarding the sym res. I've had a 300NX since it came out and even though I'm having a love/hate relationship with the board, I'm finding it rather pleasent to play after I turned up the sym res and set the key touch to 'super heavy'. The metallic noise is pretty much absent with this setting for the concert grand.
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 02/21/13 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
(Edit: the acoustic bass sound is actually quite good, and I'm finding it useful for gigs with LH bass, mainly played from the FP-4, which shares the same sound.)


The best acoustic bass would be acoustic bass 3, it is pre-programmed in the layering, but suffers from that dreadful "click" that renders it unplayable.

Harpsichord 1 has the same click and so do a few of the tone wheel organs plus various other voices.

At 5:11 you can clearly here it on this video of an RD 300NX.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aexJrb1w55Y

Doesn't sound too bad as a "one-off" but when you play with no pedal the noise accompanies every note change and is terrible.

Acoustic Bass 1 and 2 don't suffer from it.

Time Roland fixed it.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 03/14/13 03:44 PM

The USB *.wav recording function uses ADC, not digital direct? I see minor random noise during silence when I pull up the data in Audacity! As in, approx 3.2 bits of noise (-9 to 9). I am going to try analog recording tonight for comparison, just for fun. [Clarification, just in case: I'm not saying this is a problem, it's just an observation!]
Posted by: danielragostar

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/19/13 09:18 AM

Nice Post,

I bought this keyboard for gigging - Roland is the only digital piano that I can properly express myself on. It has the cutting top end and the deep resonating bass (and all the in between). All other DP's are just played back samples. The fact that this creates the sound on the fly seems to give it so much more depth.

I used Medium Key touch with +8 offset
Posted by: danielragostar

Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! - 06/25/13 04:46 AM

I'm having some big troubles at the moment frown

So basically I have the FP-4f and the main sounds I use are:

Clav
Concert Grand 1
Pop E.Piano
Full Stops (organ)


(All default configs if configurable)

I recently bought the RD-700NX as a replacement/upgrade and when comparing sounds to the FP-4f, the FP4f sounds significantly springier and has more "bounce"/attack to the sound. When comparing we have all Equalizers and controllable effects (including Reverb) OFF. It's like the FP-4F is going through some nice powered pre-amp or effect before leaving the unit to give the sound more warmth and attack.

We have gone through and compared each sound, but each time the FP-4F wins in terms of punch.

My dad doesn't want me to part with with the "sound" of the FP4F.. but im seriously hoping that I'm missing something here, some things i think that could be worth exploring?

Is there a different method of stereo collapsing on the RD700NX as this piano also includes tones such as "Concert grand MONO" which the FP-4F doesn't have.
Is there some Chorus/AMP or other effect present on the FP-4F (even though not visible on any menus)?
Anything else?


I would be so grateful if you could help me with this, I love the functionality and additional piano sounds on the new RD700NX and it would be so much better than the FP-4f if only I could work out how to get some of that "attack" back that i had for each sound on the 4F.

Kind Regards,
Allan