Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx...

Posted by: luisdent

Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 12:35 AM

I'm considering an fp-7f or rd700nx. But I can't decide if the rd700nx is worth $1000 more. I'd love the rd300NX, but I can't get past the action if it's not as good as these two.

I will be using this to bring to piano only gigs by myself. They appear to be 3lbs difference and very small difference in size (surprisingly even with the speakers).

I like the studio grand the most (2) on the 700nx, but I wouldn't pay $1000 for it. I have better sampled piano libraries, so the onboard pianos aren't "as" important, although a nice live piano is better. The concert grand sounds nice too so that would work if I only had the fp-7f.

I will also be using it as my studio controller for recording with sampled piano libraries.

Are there any other factors I'm missing? I really will never use 90% of the patches on either, and have the sampled libraries for recording at home. I believe they both do half pedaling with the 3 pedal device?

Is there any downfall to bringing the fp-7f to live shows? Is it all plastic and not as durable? I see it claims 100 velocity levels, but I don't see a number for the 700nx. Would it not be as dynamic or control midi as well, strictly piano speaking. I don't use midi for any other parameters. Just the pedal and piano performance functions.

Any opinions will help.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 07:41 AM

I finally got to try th 700NX today. Wow! Best keys ever and I loved the long, natural sustain of the SN pianos and I think the EPs are a lot better than those on the older GX version. I'm very tempted to go ahead and buy this, but I know the 300NX is probably more suitable for my needs, so I'm gonna wait and just cross my fingers that it has nice keys.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 10:01 AM

I can assure both of you that the RD-300NX keys/action will not be nearly as nice as the RD-700NX. The 700 has PHA III Ivory Feel keys while the 300 has Ivory Feel-G keys. I'm not saying the 300 keys/action won't be any good, in fact they're a nice step up from the 300GX's PHA II Alpha keys/action, but trust me, they won't be as good as the 700.

luisdent, it appears that for your needs, you may want to buy the RD-700NX. It seems in the long run, it offers you more flexibility, plus has the extra features and sounds.
Posted by: Tonio

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 10:19 AM

Originally Posted By: luisdent
...... have the sampled libraries for recording at home.


Which piano sample libraries? I've got ivory 2 and have not been able to get a decent result....sometimes I think it's because of the lack of what I'm looking for in the overall sound, but I know part of it is my controller. So, I'm considering the RD700NX as well, but am trying to get over it's big price tag. 1k cheaper would make it way more affordable (and approvable by my other half).
Posted by: Aidan

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 10:20 AM

Luisdent, if you're planning on gigging regularly with the board, I think you at least need to check out the RD300NX before you buy. Zacharay's right - the keyboard feel won't be as good. But it could be something you could live with and a 5kg saving in weight could be more important to you over time.
Posted by: blueston

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 11:52 AM

Do you plan on doing a lot of layering of different sounds? I believe the NX is better suited to that with dedicated fader controls than the FP.
Posted by: moleskincrusher

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 02:03 PM

Blueston's statement about layering is absolutely true of the FP-7F, although I can't speak about the layering function of the RD-700NX.

On the FP-7F you can only layer between "tone groups" (APs, EPs, Strings/Pads, etc.), of which there are 6 -- the last one contains all the 264 GM sounds, which comprise 80 percent of the sounds on the instrument, none of which can be combined with any other. It seems to be a design limitation: you can't layer within groups, only between them.

Bummer.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 02:52 PM

On the 700NX I just tried layering 4 identical SN pianos, and also 3 different SN pianos and a choir, and both worked. So AFAIK you can layer anything with anything in there.

The FP-7F speakers and music rest would be really handy for us to have, too bad the 700NX doesn't have them. As Aidan notes the lighter weight of the 300NX would be super attractive if you plan on moving it around by yourself. The 700NX mass is right on the edge for me without a case (though I'm an aging shrimp).

I wonder if it's possible to buy the 300NX keybed and put it in the 700NX? And maybe swap out the chipboard for plywood. And cut the metal down to get rid of the joystick. I'm kind of tempted to just take the keys and guts and mount them in a lightweight self-contained case of some sort. But then I might as well put a cheap notebook in there and run Pianoteq / Ivory. *Sigh*
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Tonio
Which piano sample libraries? I've got ivory 2 and have not been able to get a decent result....


I don't mean to criticize, but I've tested the ivory and wasn't impressed at all. I thought the pianos sound plasticky and fake. Not the worst I've heard, but I personally think the sampletekk (which I use) and the galaxy pianos vintage d are the best I've heard so far (plan to get the vintage d). If you want to get an idea of the sampletekk pianos you can demo them on their site, but the demos aren't the best representation of the pianos. The nord demos are better (I believe the nord studio grand 1 is the sampletekk C7 grand. Either that or the studio 2, I can't remember). but this is straight from one of the sampletekk developers. They just use their pianos under license for the nord piano library.

I've heard a bit of alicia's keys, and it sounds pretty good. I'd like to try it though. I like the roland SN pianos. They're great for live, but I'm not sure yet about studio recording where more detail is heard. They have a specific tone and sound though, where I really prefer the vintage d style of piano. But again, they'd be great live and the controller would be awesome for the studio samples.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: blueston
Do you plan on doing a lot of layering of different sounds? I believe the NX is better suited to that with dedicated fader controls than the FP.


Honestly, I would probably rarely if ever use the layering. Who knows, maybe I'd end up recording with the roland sounds, but currently I have a lot of instruments in logic pro that are hard to beat. I will mostly be using it simply for one piano live and a controller in the studio.

I talked with roland today and they said both models are durable and stage ready, but the 700 is more live "user friendly" with instant access you can assign to buttons and direct eq knobs and faders that can control midi.

Interestingly, he said he has them side by side and he was comparing them while i was on the phone. He said that they should be identical in mechanics for the action being the same phaIII with ivory feel, however they "do" feel different. I asked how and which felt better. He said neither was really better, but only different. He described it as possibly being the way the key bottoms out, but he said they were both just as good in feel. Blargh.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/04/11 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Aidan
Luisdent, if you're planning on gigging regularly with the board, I think you at least need to check out the RD300NX before you buy. Zacharay's right - the keyboard feel won't be as good. But it could be something you could live with and a 5kg saving in weight could be more important to you over time.


As for the 300nx, the roland tech i talked with said if i like the 700nx i would not like the 300nx action. He said it is no anywhere near the same. Good for the price, but not in the same league. he said it wasn't even as much the weight, but the feel of the mechanics in the action.

I need good action for using it as a controller in the studio too, so I really don't want to sacrifice on that end. If I was going to, then I'd probably just get the nord piano... Which I'm still torn about...
Posted by: Rimmer

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/05/11 04:37 PM

As an FP-7F owner (and new learner) I would say that as an Acoustic Piano simulation, there is probably very little difference between the NX and the FP-7F.

However, when you consider the additional patches in the NX as well as much higher level editing and FX capabilities, then the NX does fairly demand a premium price.

It is however longer than the FP-7F so harder to move around, so for gigging i'd imagine the FP to be easier to transport around.

So. If it's all about the SN AP patch then the FP-7F is superb value for money. I haven't found anything 'outstanding' about any other patch in the SX, GX or NX that I would think matches the primary AP sound but, maybe that's just me.. The EP's on the FP-7F are cool, but they are not great. About the same opinion I have with the SX, GX and NX range although you have a better FX section that could swing the choice for you


Regards. Rimmer
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/06/11 11:10 PM

Yeah, I think I'm really leaning toward this model. I'm curious about the action still, although I probably will have to buy it to try it. The roland tech I talked with said he tried them side by side on the phone with me and although identical mechanics they definitely feel different in some way. He said probably the chassis they sit in affects the feel... odd since they are both metal with the same overall weight. :-p
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/06/11 11:24 PM

luident, there is a very small difference between how the RD-700NX and FP-7F keyboard actions are listed on the Roland website:

RD-700NX: 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement)
FP-7F: 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement)

I'm uncertain quite what the 'S' indicates on the Ivory Feel, but this may explain why the Roland chap believes the actions on the two models feel slightly different.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/07/11 12:50 PM

I'm 99% positive that the only difference in the actual actions/keys between the two is the FP-7F has all white keys whereas the RD-700NX has the white caps on woodish color base keys. The Roland tech was probably right about why the two feel different. It's most likely the different chassis they sit in.
Posted by: robipiano

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/07/11 01:42 PM

luisdent,

If you use sampled piano libraries I can tell you my experience.

I recently bought the Roland Fp7f and Muse Receptor 2 where I installed Ivory 2 and I'm very happy with them because Receptor is fantastic with Ivory 2 with no latency (I can play it with "Sample Buffer Size" at 32 samples!)and the keyboard of Fp7f is very fast and expressive (more better of my old yamaha p140.

Also I can hear my Ivory 2 through the internal speakers so the vibrations increase the feeling of playing a real piano.

I changed a lot of setup during my life in order to have the best possible digital piano and this is the best I had.

Sorry for my english.

Ciao.

Robipiano
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/13/11 12:51 AM

Update on the sampled piano situation. I bought the vintage d. Although I absolutely love the piano sound, the sampled piano is absolutely unusable. It has a problem with dropped notes when playing the same note twice in certain situations and also has cracks and pops now and then for the same reason of the double note issue. This is not a performance issue and is a known issue with the piano and/or kontakt player. Huge bummer. It sounds so nice otherwise.

The problems even show up when bouncing the final recording out of logic pro. There is no known fix I can find. I updated a previous 1.1.1 fix, but it doesn't account for this issue.

Needless to say, I'm trying to get a refund, and looking for another piano. Alicia's Keys sounds decent, but I'm pretty sure I've heard this same problem in a youtube video with her piano. I'm wondering if this means it's not the piano, but the kontakt player causing the issue?

Anyhow, I'm weary of sticking with a kontakt based piano. That leaves ivory II as the next best standard piano library. I pulled it up on try-sound.com again and tested it further. The good news is that I hadn't heard the "german grand" model, which is very similar to the vintage d with the timbre set lower. It sounds like a nice steineway. I think I'd be very happy with it. The bad news, it costs $400 including the ilock usb key, which unfortunately you have to have plugged in to use it...

Does anyone know if the ivory library has any unresolved issues as of now? I'd hate to be in this boat again...
Posted by: bbent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/13/11 01:23 AM

We tried a lot of DPs, and finally bought the FP-7F. We eliminated the RD-700NX from consideration because it is a little too long for our needs. We ultimately chose the FP-7F, primarily because of the action, 3-pedal option, and the sound. In our studio, we use it as a controller most of the time, with Ivory II as our most used synth. IMO, Ivory II is better than any other synthesized piano sound that we have heard. We do occasionally use the FP-7F internal sounds, but usually only with ear phones.

As a controller, the FP-7F is far from ideal (e.g., no pitch bend, modulation, etc.), but it makes up for these flaws with its action, which is the closest to our Steinway Grand of any DP we've tried.

It sounds like your MIDI controller requirements are modest, so the FP-7F should work fine in that regard. If you ever need more MIDI controller capability, you can always add a Korg nanoKontrol for about $60.

The FP-7F speakers are OK (better than a sharp stick in the eye), but we never use them.

The bottom line - IMO, you will greatly enjoy either choice (FP-7F or RD-700NX). Good luck.
Posted by: luisdent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/13/11 03:21 AM

so you've had no issues at all with the midi to ivory ii? does half pedaling and everything work ok?
Posted by: bbent

Re: Which roland? fp-7f or rd700nx... - 03/13/11 01:30 PM

Works great.