Kronos is out!

Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Kronos is out! - 06/14/11 08:02 PM

Just got a call from Guitar Center that the Korg Kronos is on the floor and available. It is only the 61 key but I imagine the bigger ones can't be far behind. I'm about to grab my headphones and at least go check out the sounds and functionality.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 12:28 AM

Just got back from GC and spent quite a bit of time with the Kronos 61. Materials were very good but a bit short of what you get with Yamaha products. The touchscreen, however, is fantastic and a really great feature for a workstation.

I really enjoyed all the sound engines. It will be overkill for those just looking for a DP, but I can see endless hours of creative fun for me. The sequencing and editing is intuitive with the touchscreen and the sounds are great. I think the XF still might be the best workstation as far as sounds that kill on stage, but the Kronos has more flexibility as a stand alone workstation and the sounds are just as good if not better in all departments, except maybe the guitars.

The action used on the SV-1 isn't as refined as that on the CP-1, but I will live with the compromise given that my acoustic is used for virtually all my piano time. I paid for and pre-ordered a Kronos 88. I was able to get it out the door for the best price I found online. They expect it to arrive within the next 2 weeks.

On a side note, I was talking to the manager about the the Roland G8, which I used to own. He told me they can't move them because everyone knows the sounds are just not usable on stage or in the studio unless you are focused on creating hip hop demos. Nevertheless, he agreed that the new Roland DP focused products sound and feel great. To illustrate the point about the G8 he played back similar demos he created on the XF and the G8. The contrast was pretty dramatic. There is definitely something about Roland non-piano sounds that make them sound artificial. Hopefully whatever lessons they learned in creating the SN pianos can be applied across other sounds in their next workstation.

Mint CP1 anyone? PW friendly pricing for anyone interested.

Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 12:40 AM

Congrats Hideki - looking forward to seeing the pictures of your place once the Kronos arrives! wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Congrats Hideki - looking forward to seeing the pictures of your place once the Kronos arrives! wink

Cheers,
James
x


Thanks. I almost ended buying the MP-10 but I decided to go back to a workstation. The action on the MP is superb. I would take it over any DP action out there.

My Shigeru had the visit from the Kawai Master Piano Artisan from Japan today. I cant believe how perfect he made my Shigeru sound. As great as all these DPs are, playing the Shigeru is something otherworldly.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 01:02 AM

Wow, sounds like you've had a great day!

Double congrats! wink

James
x
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 08:34 AM

Ok Hideki, now you're really making me green with envy! A perfectly prepped Shigeru and a Kronos 88 - it doesn't get much better than that. shocked
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 12:54 PM

Wow congrats on both getting the Kronos 88 and your piano tweaked. Yeah, I've spent some $$$$ on my D getting it right. It's always gratifying and inspiring for sure.

I know you didn't play the 88 but I'm curious to see when you get it, how the SV1 action compares to that of the Kronos 88/73. I don't think the 61s are even in the stores down here yet.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Congrats Hideki - looking forward to seeing the pictures of your place once the Kronos arrives! wink

Cheers,
James
x


Thanks. I almost ended buying the MP-10 but I decided to go back to a workstation. The action on the MP is superb. I would take it over any DP action out there.

My Shigeru had the visit from the Kawai Master Piano Artisan from Japan today. I cant believe how perfect he made my Shigeru sound. As great as all these DPs are, playing the Shigeru is something otherworldly.


First of all congrats on the pre-ordered Kronos! I played the 61 Kronos last week over at my local music store, and I was very impressed with the piano/orchestral sounds. I didn't spend nearly enough time, but I left with a great impression of the acoustic pianos and orchestral sounds. Great touchscreen as well. It's probably the best workstation out there-aside from the NS2, but that seems almost made for different kinds of work.

As far as your SK5...I'm green with envy! I played the RX-5, RX-6, and RX-7, as well as did some session work on a C7 here in town, and loved the sound of the C7, but the feel of the Kawais were wonderful. And those were the standard Blak Series RX grands, not the high end SK grands. smile
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 05:37 PM

A Kawai detour in the thread--but I played the RX5 Blak about two weeks ago and was knocked out ! These new Blak series sound more European and sophisticated then earlier Kawais. I played a 2002 RX6 right next to the RX5 and the sound was not the same. Couple that with their newer Millennium action, I think for home solo playing, I'd prefer that Kawai to a Yamaha--and I'm a huge Yamaha C series fan. Owned both the C7E and S6.

The Kawai just had a more lyrical, singing sound then the C series. And at a more competitive price. Playing out live with a Trio, I'd still opt for a good regulated C7 though. They just cut through great.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/15/11 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Wow congrats on both getting the Kronos 88 and your piano tweaked. Yeah, I've spent some $$$$ on my D getting it right. It's always gratifying and inspiring for sure.

I know you didn't play the 88 but I'm curious to see when you get it, how the SV1 action compares to that of the Kronos 88/73. I don't think the 61s are even in the stores down here yet.


I was fortunate to have my MPA visit as part of my Shigeru purchase, but I imagine that kind of quality work would normally be very expensive. Worth every penny nonetheless. I'm sure your D sounds amazing. Its hard to play a DP when you have a great piano at your fingertips.

While I was at GC there was a great jazz player using the CP5 for some EPs. It really sounded perfect. Yamaha really knows how to create sounds that sound great in live setups.

The SV-1 action doesn't compare to the refined Yamaha actions. If I didn't have my Shigeru I would probably keep the CP1, but I'm willing to live with an action that is a little less refined in a workstation. I think the Kronos will probably be similar to the SV. I'll definitely report back when I get it.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/17/11 09:51 AM

Korg posted the English version of the Kronos Video Manual on YouTube.
The video manual has approximately 1 hour of videos.

Part 1 - Introduction and Navigation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77zsCHO2Oc

Part 2 - Program Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjE3A4WChUo

Part 3 - Combination Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DHwX-kOL0M

Part 4 - Sequencer Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHf1XqzBOU

Part 5 - Set List Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NUga0pLLgY

Part 6 - Disk Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukwEWdbOHYE
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/19/11 05:13 AM

The Kronos is a rather steep learning curve I must admit.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/19/11 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The Kronos is a rather steep learning curve I must admit.



Based on the devices in your signature, I doubt it would be that steep for you. I have a feeling it will be a bit of a headache for me. That being said, it seems like endless fun too.

A few Japanese video:

Clown on the Kronos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnOZ9jZPiGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2DtHMoPbR8

Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/20/11 12:38 AM

This one should be of particular interest around here. It covers the SGX1 piano engine, EP1 electric piano engine and the CX3 organ engine. The electric pianos get the most coverage with some of the signature pro sounds highlighted.

Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/20/11 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


Based on the devices in your signature, I doubt it would be that steep for you. I have a feeling it will be a bit of a headache for me. That being said, it seems like endless fun too.



There is SO much in this board its a long road to really know it. Just when you think you have it you notice the other hundreds of voices not loaded that are on the drive.
This board is VERY involved.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/20/11 12:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper


There is SO much in this board its a long road to really know it. Just when you think you have it you notice the other hundreds of voices not loaded that are on the drive.
This board is VERY involved.


I've been spending some time on the Kronos forum and half the stuff they talk about is completely over my head. The basics seem pretty straightforward but there seem to be so many little details that are going to require some serious hands on time.

I once owned the Access Virus Ti and am thinking about getting their 61 key version again to compliment the Kronos. I haven't kept up to date with the product and was wondering what you thought of the product today with current updates. I always felt the Virus was able to create unique "hard" electronic sounds.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/20/11 07:14 PM

Some cool Japanese artist demo videos:

Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/21/11 12:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


I once owned the Access Virus Ti and am thinking about getting their 63 key version again to compliment the Kronos. I haven't kept up to date with the product and was wondering what you thought of the product today with current updates. I always felt the Virus was able to create unique "hard" electronic sounds.


Well to me the Virus is king of the synth's these days I just love it. I frankly couldn't imagine life without it. It does FAT better then any VA out there and nothing is like a virus bassline or trance pad although the Arturia Origon Keyboard is also a awesome board. I am VERY impressed with the Kronos as well BTW.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/21/11 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


I once owned the Access Virus Ti and am thinking about getting their 63 key version again to compliment the Kronos. I haven't kept up to date with the product and was wondering what you thought of the product today with current updates. I always felt the Virus was able to create unique "hard" electronic sounds.


Well to me the Virus is king of the synth's these days I just love it. I frankly couldn't imagine life without it. It does FAT better then any VA out there and nothing is like a virus bassline or trance pad although the Arturia Origon Keyboard is also a awesome board. I am VERY impressed with the Kronos as well BTW.


It seems every Virus owner feels similarly. I never should have sold mine. (Edit: picked up the 61 shortly after posting this). I wasn't very proficient with mine but this guy seems to know what he is doing:



Posted by: rickshapiro

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 12:09 PM

Played the Kronos at GC yesterday. I think it really is a game changer. I cannot see Yamaha, Roland, Nord or Kurzweil catching up unless they stop regurgitating old technology with small incremental features and start from scratch. Across the board I found the sounds rich and highly usable. The Pianos sounds surpassed any softpianos I've heard. The interface and screen are highly intuitive. I'm really impressed. By the way, the vintage mechanical keyboards were stunning.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: rickshapiro
Played the Kronos at GC yesterday. I think it really is a game changer. I cannot see Yamaha, Roland, Nord or Kurzweil catching up unless they stop regurgitating old technology with small incremental features and start from scratch. Across the board I found the sounds rich and highly usable. The Pianos sounds surpassed any softpianos I've heard. The interface and screen are highly intuitive. I'm really impressed. By the way, the vintage mechanical keyboards were stunning.


Still waiting for my 88 but I've been going back to GC to learn as much about the Kronos on the 61. There are so many amazing sounds on the Kronos. The pianos, EPs and organ alone are reason for a keyboard player to check out the Kronos, but all the other sounds and features make the Kronos an amazing tool at a reasonable price. I just bought a Virus again for it's unique sounds, but between those 2 boards (and maybe a Roland V-synth GT) I can't think of much else I would want on the digital end.
Posted by: cubop

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 02:44 PM

If my next keyboard wont be the Kronos, I will be very surprised. I will of course try before I buy, but it would be interesting to hear what people here have to say about the hammer action on the 73 and 88.Not too much about that on the Korg forum. I have seen the videos, so the only thing I have to test is the keyboard action. If I dont like the 88, I can buy the 61, control it from the MP6, and save some money. The best thing would be the 88. Then I could sell the MP6 and the Triton LE88, and manage very nicely with the Kronos and the Roland E80.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: cubop
If my next keyboard wont be the Kronos, I will be very surprised. I will of course try before I buy, but it would be interesting to hear what people here have to say about the hammer action on the 73 and 88.Not too much about that on the Korg forum. I have seen the videos, so the only thing I have to test is the keyboard action. If I dont like the 88, I can buy the 61, control it from the MP6, and save some money. The best thing would be the 88. Then I could sell the MP6 and the Triton LE88, and manage very nicely with the Kronos and the Roland E80.


Not a big issue but keep in mind that the Kronos pianos and EPs have note off velocity info. Most controllers do not have true note off velocity so Kronos will just get Note Off command with no velocity info. I think it is a minor issue, but I'm getting rid of my CP1 for that very reason. I'm not sure about the MP6.

I don't think the Korg action on the SV1 is as good as the CP1, but it isn't bad by any means.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 03:31 PM

MP6 = no note-off velocity. Was on my consideration list when comparing to Roland options (e.g. FP7F) which DO offer that feature. Decided I could live without that controller info ;-)
Posted by: cubop

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 04:01 PM

Thanks for comments. The best way to control a keyboard is always to control it from the board itself, if the action is reasonably good. The action om the LE88 is surprisingly good, so good that for some things I prefer it to the MP6.
So one should expect the Kronos to be a bit better.
But the Kronos is available in Norway, so I will just find the nearest dealer who has a 73 or 88, and play it.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
MP6 = no note-off velocity. Was on my consideration list when comparing to Roland options (e.g. FP7F) which DO offer that feature. Decided I could live without that controller info ;-)



I know the 700GX did true Note-off velocity. I thought the FP7 and F only did fixed value even thought it indicates it has note off velocity? I'm not sure about the 700NX.
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 05:01 PM

Check out this Kronos review from a guy that really likes Yamaha boards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p59GmHrihQ8&feature=relmfu

It is a series of three videos. This is number one and he is playing a 61 semi-weighted board.

He is from http://www.GospelMusicians.com
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 05:32 PM

Uhm, perhaps it has already been said , but does anyone know of the Kronos (88) has aftertouch ? Sales websites don't mention it...

Only thing that bothers me is the steep price of high end workstations in general, that certainly seem to be OK for what they deliver, but make a software solution based on a latest 4 core model MacBook Pro SSD + good keyboard a cheaper, but more flexible and extendable option in some respects.

Kronos and alike are state-of the art for the moment, but could become old fashioned in a few years as well. At the same time you can keep on upgrading your customizable software/hardware setup and keep using you setups and sounds when ported to a later model computer set. That makes your time and money investment more durable , but at the same time I still like the 'switch-on and just play without worries' advantage of hardware too. Tough decision...for now I would prefer a Kronos I guess; let's you concentrate more on music making instead of configuring and trying software continuously.

J
Posted by: cubop

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/23/11 05:47 PM

I think I saw that on the Korg forum that Kronos has aftertouch, and very good aftertouch.
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 09:14 AM

I have been waiting and waiting for a DP manufacturer to deliver a unit with a fully sampled multi giga grand piano streaming from an internal ssd and I love the fact that Korg delivered in that regard. The Kronos has too many extras for me though, I really wish they offered a stripped down 88 weighted key piano only model (including electric pianos). My initial thoughts are that the Kronos piano should be leagues ahead of the Supernatural piano from the Roland DP's. Has anybody compared the two? I was considering buying the FP7-f but now I'm leaning towards the Kronos (having never played the Kronos though).
Thanks in advance (This site is a wonderful resource for DP's)
N
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 09:27 AM

Agreed - a 'piano and EP only' version of the Kronos would be pretty awesome.

James
x
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Agreed - a 'piano and EP only' version of the Kronos would be pretty awesome.

James
x



On the way James ....
Posted by: egallego

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 06:17 PM

I don't think this will happen. I've used several Korg products live with a Heavy Metal band (think of Jordan Rudess style), and IMHO a Kronos user will want lots of synths and strings.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 06:28 PM

Dr P, SV-2 you mean?

James
x
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/25/11 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Agreed - a 'piano and EP only' version of the Kronos would be pretty awesome.

James
x



On the way James ....


Is this for real?
Posted by: 7even

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/26/11 12:14 AM

I had the misfortune of playing with a Kronos earlier today - oh man. I really want it! Pianos sounded great, though there's too much noise at Guitar Center to do a good test on them, especially with only 61 synth-style keys. I loved the orchestra / strings sounds - perfection IMO. Same with the pipe organ. I could literally get lost in the sound and just keep playing without really thinking that something sounded off (which is what usually happens when I venture outside the SN pianos on my NX, and I keep switching sounds until I'm back to the pianos again). KARMA is also kinda fun to play with.

Haven't tried creating any sounds or recording anything, but already I'm trying to figure out how to go 700NX->Kronos.. aaaaah
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/26/11 03:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Dr P, SV-2 you mean?

James
x



Now did I say that ? ;-)
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/26/11 03:21 AM

You're not the only one here with contacts within the industry. wink

James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/27/11 12:44 PM

My Kronos 88 is on the way. It left NY and should be here in a few days.
Posted by: Psalm23

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/27/11 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
My Kronos 88 is on the way. It left NY and should be here in a few days.


Please provide a review. I had the Yammy XF but I am waiting for the Kronos 88.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/27/11 11:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Psalm23


Please provide a review. I had the Yammy XF but I am waiting for the Kronos 88.


Had ??
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 01:58 AM

FYI guys. Guitar center is running A 15% off sale (max $500) until July 4. You still end up paying tax in most places, but you still end up getting a nice savings. I have the Kronos 88 to my door at $3600.
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 04:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
FYI guys. Guitar center is running A 15% off sale (max $500) until July 4. You still end up paying tax in most places, but you still end up getting a nice savings. I have the Kronos 88 to my door at $3600.


Please let us know how you get on with it...
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 09:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
FYI guys. Guitar center is running A 15% off sale (max $500) until July 4. You still end up paying tax in most places, but you still end up getting a nice savings. I have the Kronos 88 to my door at $3600.


And if you'd like to do a little more finagling, you can price match that price someplace else where they won't charge you sales tax (though you're still legally supposed to pay it).
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
FYI guys. Guitar center is running A 15% off sale (max $500) until July 4. You still end up paying tax in most places, but you still end up getting a nice savings. I have the Kronos 88 to my door at $3600.


And if you'd like to do a little more finagling, you can price match that price someplace else where they won't charge you sales tax (though you're still legally supposed to pay it).


Sweetwater won't price match GCs price on the Kronos if you are looking to get $3300 out the door. If you can get $3300 out the door anywhere, grab it while you can.
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 02:14 PM

They are selling fast... Here is a direct quote from one of the mail order companies that is selling a boat load of these keyboards (Kronos 88 included):

I guess about a month ago we did get a large shipment of the Kronos,' but as they were all pre-ordered, they weren't here for long.

I cannot guarantee that we will have them available until September. We are currently 90 deep on pre-orders.


Trying to be an Optimist: Maybe these boards "are" game-changers? One can only hope.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


Sweetwater won't price match GCs price on the Kronos. If you can get $3300 out the door anywhere, grab it while you can.


Musicians Friend has the same sale going on right now.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 05:00 PM

The guy I deal with might be behind the curve in getting the 88/73 but his prices are much better then MF, GC, SW, etc.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The guy I deal with might be behind the curve in getting the 88/73 but his prices are much better then MF, GC, SW, etc.


Yeah. You seem to get ridiculously low prices. You probably rarely lose out on resale. I always take a bath on my keyboards. I need to learn a little patience and get in touch with your guy.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/28/11 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


Sweetwater won't price match GCs price on the Kronos. If you can get $3300 out the door anywhere, grab it while you can.


Musicians Friend has the same sale going on right now.


I'm think it might be an excluded item. It says restricted item and if you go online and try the code it says $0.00 discount for the Kronos.

Most places won't match the $3300, but will get you to the door around $3600.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/29/11 08:11 PM


Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsu


I'm think it might be an excluded item. It says restricted item and if you go online and try the code it says $0.00 discount for the Kronos.

Most places won't match the $3300, but will get you to the door around $3600.


You have to call but id bet they would. Im sure its on GC's excluded list too because Korg wont allow them to advertise it
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsu


I'm think it might be an excluded item. It says restricted item and if you go online and try the code it says $0.00 discount for the Kronos.

Most places won't match the $3300, but will get you to the door around $3600.


You have to call but id bet they would. Im sure its on GC's excluded list too because Korg wont allow them to advertise it


It's not on GCs excluded list. If you go to their website you can put it in your cart and apply the discount code. Thus far, nobody on the Korg forum has been able to get any of the online retailers to go down to $3300 to the door. Most of them will do around $3600 to the door.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 08:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


It's not on GCs excluded list. If you go to their website you can put it in your cart and apply the discount code. Thus far, nobody on the Korg forum has been able to get any of the online retailers to go down to $3300 to the door. Most of them will do around $3600 to the door.


Actually, they are on the GC excluded list for in store and online

http://www.guitarcenter.com/GC-Coupon-Details-g25685t0.gc

Guitar Center, Musicians Friend and Music123 are all the same company.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


It's not on GCs excluded list. If you go to their website you can put it in your cart and apply the discount code. Thus far, nobody on the Korg forum has been able to get any of the online retailers to go down to $3300 to the door. Most of them will do around $3600 to the door.


Actually, they are on the GC excluded list for in store and online

http://www.guitarcenter.com/GC-Coupon-Details-g25685t0.gc

Guitar Center, Musicians Friend and Music123 are all the same company.



Yes, but On the GC website you can place your order and apply the discount and it works. On the MF website it doesn't. When you call or go into GC they will honor the discount. When you call in, MF won't give you $3,300. I'm not sure why, but this is definitely what is going on. I got mine from GC. Several people have tried MF and they wont do it at $3300 out the door. Doesn't really make sense to me since GC isn't keeping the tax anyway.
Posted by: Qbert

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 11:13 AM

As I followed the GC link, a pop up came out advising that NOW they ship to Italy! It sounds very interesting. Flat rate shipping looks very low.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui


Yes, but On the GC website you can place your order and apply the discount and it works. On the MF website it doesn't. When you call or go into GC they will honor the discount. When you call in, MF won't give you $3,300. I'm not sure why, but this is definitely what is going on. I got mine from GC. Several people have tried MF and they wont do it at $3300 out the door. Doesn't really make sense to me since GC isn't keeping the tax anyway.


It's an oversight on their Website. Korg doesn't want it to be discounted which is why they (and any other company) is on that list. If you can show them that the GC website will sell it for 3300 then they should price match. The other thing I've noticed (from buying guitars and equipment) is that Music123 is much more likely to price match. They even have a 110% price match guarantee, so if you can have them go add it to their cart for $500 off, they should sell it to you for $550 off.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 02:58 PM

Here's the music123 price match

http://www.music123.com/staticPages/beatAnyPrice.jsp

My suggestion is to call them instead of using their form. There have been a lot of people who used the form and they'd wait until a sale like this expired and then respond back that their price was the same. If you call and tell them where you can get it for 3300, they'll Either have to match it or come up with a reason why they're going to break their policy.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 06/30/11 04:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Lefty Chev
Here's the music123 price match

http://www.music123.com/staticPages/beatAnyPrice.jsp

My suggestion is to call them instead of using their form. There have been a lot of people who used the form and they'd wait until a sale like this expired and then respond back that their price was the same. If you call and tell them where you can get it for 3300, they'll Either have to match it or come up with a reason why they're going to break their policy.



I'm already set, but many people on the Korg forum have tried this and they aren't matching at $3300 at MF. They will only get near $3600.
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 04:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
My Kronos 88 is on the way. It left NY and should be here in a few days.


Hi Hideki,
I was just wondering if you got a chance to have a good play of the Kronos pianos? I am dying to hear what you make of them and how they stack up against the competition...
Peace,
N
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Providence
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
My Kronos 88 is on the way. It left NY and should be here in a few days.


Hi Hideki,
I was just wondering if you got a chance to have a good play of the Kronos pianos? I am dying to hear what you make of them and how they stack up against the competition...
Peace,
N


Arrives today. Will report back.
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 10:20 AM

Much Appreciated
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 02:47 PM

Arrived and I set it up. I will report back after spending a little time with it.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 03:58 PM

Cool. Inquiring minds....... smile
Posted by: egallego

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 04:56 PM

Great Hideki! Thanks for your feedback, that seems like an impressive board.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 08:12 PM

Posted by: RafaPolit

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 08:22 PM

Ok... that's just bragging about it! wink

HOW IS IT? Is the question we want answered! Give us some of the juicy details and impressions! smile

Seriously, congrats... seems like a fantastic piece of equipment from the little info I was able to pick up on the internet, and SSD sampled piano is a nice approach with some great sounding demos. Looking for your insight.

Congrats again,
Rafa.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 08:41 PM

Congrats indeed!

Where is the Access Virus though?

James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 08:43 PM

Another hour or so and I think I can give an informed initial impression. I had to go out so I'm just getting at it now.
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 09:26 PM

Please compare the Korg APs to your Kawai. It won't be as good but... Let us know what kind of speakers those are as well please and Thanks!
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Congrats indeed!

Where is the Access Virus though?

James
x


I don't like the X stand for a double tier because both the GT and Virus are deep and have extensive controls in the back. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do there. In the interim, I have the Virus in another room hooked up to my iPad. The Virus sounds so good I just like sitting around and messing with it.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 10:47 PM

Put it on top of the Shigeru?

James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:19 PM

Just some initial impressions. I'll give a more complete review after I get some more time with the Kronos because there are so many things to cover. I just focused on the pianos and EPs for the last hour and briefly went over the program groups and combis.

The Kronos sounds fantastic. The German grand has a beautiful tone and nice detail. I turned down the damper noise a little because I felt the default setting was a little loud. My fingers are a bit out of whack from playing too much synth lately and not practicing classical for a year, but I took a shot at 1st movement of the English Suite and 3rd movement of Moonlight Sonata. I felt the German grand had an appropriate sound for those pieces, despite some fumbling on my part. In a Sentimental Mood also sounded very rich, with the German grand taking nicely to the some of the simple lyrical portions of the song. I'm sure some of our local Dave's could really give the song justice on the Kronos.

The Japanese grand has a distinct bright sound to it. I can see it working really well in a live or ensemble setting. I played the theme from Local Hero and The Piano, and To Zanarkand. The Japanese grand definitely has a nice sound for those types of songs.

The pianos sound very natural for a DP and there are many parameters for tweaking to get the sound you might want. There are a number of variations on the German and Japanese grands that give you an idea of the types of piano sounds you can get with the piano engine. I felt the touchscreen interface made tweaking the pianos very simple. If you have big fingers or poor eyesight you may not appreciate the font size, but I was very comfortable working with the screen.

I did check the decay and noticed there was no looping that I could hear... Dewster.

The EPs are also very impressive. I think an EP enthusiast will love the EPs and the ability to tweak them. As much as I loved the EPs on the CP1, there seems to be more potential with the Kronos EPs. They have a great authentic sound and lots of good noise. The organs are also great, but to be honest, I play very little organ.

From a sound quality perspective, I think the pianos, EPs and organ are all recording quality and extremely fun to play. The rest of the sounds on the Kronos are equally impressive, with the synth sounds really offering endless possibilities.

My initial reservations for the piano focused crowd:

The action is completely playable and responsive, but it is a little noisy and does not have the refined build quality of the Yamaha, Roland or Kawai actions. I think if they made changes from the SV1, they were more in the line of adding aftertouch because it feels like the same action. Taking into consideration the graded weighting, I still felt there wasn't the consistency from key to key that I got out of my CP1.

The build quality is just fine, but the materials are less than what I would have expected in some small areas. At home it will be no issue, but I don't know if it would survive the rigors of constant gigging if you are rough with your gear. The end caps are made of black shiny plastic that will definitely scratch easily and some of controls are slightly delicate.

There is slight fan noise that is audible when you aren't playing. I have a silent PC. It is louder than that but quieter than your standard PC or gaming console. You won't hear it when you are playing but if things like that irritate you when you aren't playing, you might consider the noise a small issue. I'm fairly sensitive to fan noise and it doesn't bother me.

There is a ton of stuff that you won't need if you just want a DP. I love it but if you just want a DP it will seem like a distraction. The resources spent on making it an incredible workstation will be wasted on someone wanting a DP and are probably better spent in areas like the action for that person.

As great as the Kronos sounds, I would say it isn't the board for someone who primarily wants a piano. There are other, more focused boards, better suited for that. A gigging musician needs to consider whether a tank like build is required because I imagine the Kronos has a mediocre crash impact rating.

I will give more detailed review later, but that is what I can offer for now. Ask questions and I will answer the best I can.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Put it on top of the Shigeru?

James
x


I would have my son be a human stand first.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: HwyStar
Please compare the Korg APs to your Kawai. It won't be as good but... Let us know what kind of speakers those are as well please and Thanks!



Mackie HR824 MKIIs.

Not a fair comparison. When it comes to playing piano, the experience of playing a great acoustic is the real thing, and a DP is just a replica. That isn't to say DPs can't be used for great music and sound fantastic. It is just that when you have them side by side the complexity and acoustics of a great piano are overwhelming.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:52 PM

Thanks for the early review Hideki!

It will be interesting to see if Korg provides additional downloadable content in the future, especially if future instruments (SV-2?) utilise the same PC-based architecture.

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I would have my son be a human stand first.


wink

James
x
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I did check the decay and noticed there was no looping that I could hear... Dewster.

I'd be very happy to confirm it doesn't have worms if you could provide a stool sample. smile
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Not a fair comparison. When it comes to playing piano, the experience of playing a great acoustic is the real thing, and a DP is just a replica. That isn't to say DPs can't be used for great music and sound fantastic. It is just that when you have them side by side the complexity and acoustics of a great piano are overwhelming.

After decent keys (not sure if we're there yet), eliminating looping, stretching, etc. and sampling / synthesizing adequate sympathetic resonance, I think 90% of the remaining experience is amps & speakers that are up to the task.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/05/11 11:59 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I did check the decay and noticed there was no looping that I could hear... Dewster.

I'd be very happy to confirm it doesn't have worms if you could provide a stool sample. smile

Just tell me what I need to do.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
My initial reservations for the piano focused crowd:

The action is completely playable and responsive, but it is a little noisy and does not have the refined build quality of the Yamaha, Roland or Kawai actions. I think if they made changes from the SV1, they were more in the line of adding aftertouch because it feels like the same action. Taking into consideration the graded weighting, I still felt there wasn't the consistency from key to key that I got out of my CP1.

The build quality is just fine, but the materials are less than what I would have expected in some small areas. At home it will be no issue, but I don't know if it would survive the rigors of constant gigging if you are rough with your gear. The end caps are made of black shiny plastic that will definitely scratch easily and some of controls are slightly delicate.

There is a ton of stuff that you won't need if you just want a DP. I love it but if you just want a DP it will seem like a distraction. The resources spent on making it an incredible workstation will be wasted on someone wanting a DP and are probably better spent in areas like the action for that person.

As great as the Kronos sounds, I would say it isn't the board for someone who primarily wants a piano. There are other, more focused boards, better suited for that. A gigging musician needs to consider whether a tank like build is required because I imagine the Kronos has a mediocre crash impact rating.


Nice initial impressions H. Pretty much how I'm guessing my feelings will be WHEN I finally get to touch one. cry

If I take the plunge I'm definitely springing for a hard case. Too much an investment in that puppy !

Yeah that's the dilemma for someone like me. Are all those cool synth, organ, clav drum sounds sounds really worth it ? Without a doubt you would could kill 2 hours initially just messing around...that's what I'm worried about. lol I should be practicing.

In any case, keep the review coming.....
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 12:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Just tell me what I need to do.

Download the DPBSD MIDI file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?yptdhmp68qpf7md

Select the piano you want to test, turn off reverb (the MIDI file will attempt to do this as well) and record the audio result, setting the level to as hot as you can reasonably get it before clipping (~ -1dB, not an absolute necessity if you can record digitally directly on the DP).

If there is any way you can confirm you are actually recording the voice you think you are, then that would eliminate much potential confusion.

Convert to MP3, stereo, CBR, MP3, 192Kbps, 44100Hz. Or point me to the WAV file and I'll gladly do this for you.

I'll run the results by you first, and won't publicly post them until we are both satisfied.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 10:02 AM

I predict this board will score rather highly on the Dewsters little tests ...

The keybed feels pretty awful though. Its not one of the great actions that's for sure.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 10:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I predict this board will score rather highly on the Dewsters little tests ...

Maybe. I guess we're all anticipating no looping, probably no stretching. But PC samplers are rather notorious for poor pedal / key interaction so I'm anticipating some trouble there, though I would be very happy to be betting wrong.

Designers who take the pure sampling approach get by default a very rich, natural sounding pedal sympathetic resonance, but they never seem to take the time to make the mechanics of it work in a believable manner. Those who make modelers (e.g. Pianoteq) or hybrids (e.g. Roland SN) often do.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 10:33 AM

I will get to it by tomorrow. A little busy today.
Posted by: kippesc

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/06/11 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I predict this board will score rather highly on the Dewsters little tests ...

PC samplers are rather notorious for poor pedal / key interaction so I'm anticipating some trouble there, though I would be very happy to be betting wrong.

Designers who take the pure sampling approach get by default a very rich, natural sounding pedal sympathetic resonance, but they never seem to take the time to make the mechanics of it work in a believable manner. Those who make modelers (e.g. Pianoteq) or hybrids (e.g. Roland SN) often do.


A trenchant observation that cannot be emphasized enough. Software pianos often sound beautiful, but it is dismaying to me how unrealistic the behavior of most sampled software pianos is. For people who need a digital piano to practice in the woodshed on for what ultimately will be a performance on an acoustic piano, the Roland Supernatural (RD-700NX, in my case) and Pianoteq offerings seem to replicate playing an acoustic piano more accurately than any of the other digital options out there that I have tried. (And here's what I've tried: Yamaha N2 (great action, by the way), Garritan Steinway, Steinberg Grand 3, Ivory II, Galaxy Vintage D (beautiful sound -- if only I could play a real piano that beautifully).) I am making this comment here simply because I've grown tired of dumping money into these offerings in order figure out what works well. There is, unfortunately, no software piano showroom where one can go to play these things and compare them against one another, against dps, hybrids and fine acoustics.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 02:09 AM

One Q. The pianos and EPs on the Kronos have true note off velocity. Audibly, I'm not sure exactly what effect it produces, but if you don't include that info in your midi file, the resulting wav playback will not be taking advantage of that subtle effect. I'm not sure that it matters for your test but I'm wondering if there is a way to write your file so that the Kronos is not being limited in that way?
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
One Q. The pianos and EPs on the Kronos have true note off velocity. Audibly, I'm not sure exactly what effect it produces, but if you don't include that info in your midi file, the resulting wav playback will not be taking advantage of that subtle effect. I'm not sure that it matters for your test but I'm wondering if there is a way to write your file so that the Kronos is not being limited in that way?

Good question.

I actually just received a couple of DPBSD files for the Kronos and I can hear the key-up sound very clearly, it's fairly loud. I should add a test for key-up velocity support in the DPBSD, it currently uses note-on vel=0 for note-off (Sonar default).
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
One Q. The pianos and EPs on the Kronos have true note off velocity. Audibly, I'm not sure exactly what effect it produces, but if you don't include that info in your midi file, the resulting wav playback will not be taking advantage of that subtle effect. I'm not sure that it matters for your test but I'm wondering if there is a way to write your file so that the Kronos is not being limited in that way?

Good question.

I actually just received a couple of DPBSD files for the Kronos and I can hear the key-up sound very clearly, it's fairly loud. I should add a test for key-up velocity support in the DPBSD, it currently uses note-on vel=0 for note-off (Sonar default).


Are you set on the Kronos files or do you still need them from me?
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Are you set on the Kronos files or do you still need them from me?

I've got v1.9 files of the German and Japanese grands. I'm working on v2.1 of the DPBSD MIDI file to test key-up velocity noises and pedal noises.

Preliminary results on the German:

- I don't see any looping or stretching, I can see and hear at least 6 semi-blended layers (advertised as 8?) with the highest velocity layer having a strange thin sound and looking kind of tacked-on.

- Nice long decays, though C1 stops before key-up.

- 46.5 dB dynamic range

- Nice pedal sympathetic resonance, no key sympathetic resonance, fails silent replay, passes quick damping.

- Half pedal support is there, but barely.

- I can really hear the key-up "knock" - it's too loud (though you can probably adjust that and note-off velocity may modulate it).
Posted by: Providence

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Are you set on the Kronos files or do you still need them from me?

I've got v1.9 files of the German and Japanese grands. I'm working on v2.1 of the DPBSD MIDI file to test key-up velocity noises and pedal noises.

Preliminary results on the German:

- I don't see any looping or stretching, I can see and hear at least 6 semi-blended layers (advertised as 8?) with the highest velocity layer having a strange thin sound and looking kind of tacked-on.

- Nice long decays, though C1 stops before key-up.

- 46.5 dB dynamic range

- Nice pedal sympathetic resonance, no key sympathetic resonance, fails silent replay, passes quick damping.

- Half pedal support is there, but barely.

- I can really hear the key-up "knock" - it's too loud (though you can probably adjust that and note-off velocity may modulate it).


Thanks a million Dewster for the analysis. What are your feelings say about the Kronos (German) vs say the RD700NX pianos on first impressions?
Posted by: 7even

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 05:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Providence
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Are you set on the Kronos files or do you still need them from me?

I've got v1.9 files of the German and Japanese grands. I'm working on v2.1 of the DPBSD MIDI file to test key-up velocity noises and pedal noises.

Preliminary results on the German:

- I don't see any looping or stretching, I can see and hear at least 6 semi-blended layers (advertised as 8?) with the highest velocity layer having a strange thin sound and looking kind of tacked-on.

- Nice long decays, though C1 stops before key-up.

- 46.5 dB dynamic range

- Nice pedal sympathetic resonance, no key sympathetic resonance, fails silent replay, passes quick damping.

- Half pedal support is there, but barely.

- I can really hear the key-up "knock" - it's too loud (though you can probably adjust that and note-off velocity may modulate it).


Thanks a million Dewster for the analysis. What are your feelings say about the Kronos (German) vs say the RD700NX pianos on first impressions?


Would love to hear this too.. the Kronos is tempting me right now mad
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/07/11 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Providence
What are your feelings say about the Kronos (German) vs say the RD700NX pianos on first impressions?

I'm not sure I'm the best one to ask. The DPBSD is more of a test for specific bad things, not sound quality per se. Others here that have hands-on experience with both should be able to help you soon. I'll try to get the review up in the next day or so.

Today FedEX brought me a bunch of stuff to finish my combo amp / speakers project so I've been spending some time on that.
Posted by: TADutchman

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 11:09 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
...I think 90% of the remaining experience is amps & speakers that are up to the task.
Nevertheless, so far only a limited number of people are willing to spend a considerable percentage of their DP budget on amps & speakers, which is a shame i.m.h.o. (at least when you're not mainly using headphones).
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Originally Posted By: dewster
...I think 90% of the remaining experience is amps & speakers that are up to the task.
Nevertheless, so far only a limited number of people are willing to spend a considerable percentage of their DP budget on amps & speakers, which is a shame i.m.h.o. (at least when you're not mainly using headphones).


If the goal is recreating acoustic experience, it isn't just about having great speakers and amps. I have run my DPs through everything from my Mackie HR824 MK2s to my Eggleston Andra IIs coupled with a full TACT room corrected system. I can get beautiful tone and nice projection, but the way sound is produced and resonates from my Shigeru would, at the very least, require a multichannel system that is playing back a source that has multiple discrete channels.

The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording. They definitely have to use different recording/modeling techniques to get optimal playback on a 2 channel v multichannel playback system.

If the goal is to get a nice, fairly realistic piano sound in stereo, I think quite a few DPs can be the foundation for creating that experience. If the goal is to recreate the acoustic experience of a grand piano, I just don't think the tools currently exist to make that happen. That being said, I don't think that should necessarily be the priority, as the acoustic experience isn't required for a musical experience.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 04:51 PM

Having spent a little more time with the Kronos, I have to say that it isn't as difficult to navigate as I would have expected. When it comes to playing with the piano and EP parameters it is pretty straightforward and accessible. The synth engines are really deep and require more knowledge.

The pianos and EPs are really enjoyable to play. The action is a non issue to me at this point. It is responsive and precise, even if clicks. I would prefer the CP1 action but am happy with Kronos action.

I'm going to start looking at the sequencer functions after the weekend, but I'm really impressed with the sound engines. This is a demo song made by Jordan Rudess with the piano engine of the Kronos. I think he has tweaked the German grand for the sound:

http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/kronos/media/Interstices.mp3
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 05:15 PM

mmmmm, I'm always getting a little nervous by these JR demo's; tingle-tangle-tang-tingle-tingle-tingle-tang rush rush rush....look how many notes I can play in a microsecond. The fact is that simply because you CAN, doesn't mean you HAVE TO...

Some more balanced classical playing of a "moderate" piece would provide for a better impression on some subtleties of a grand-piano sounds than these nervous blocks of improvisations IMHO. Nevertheless great technique ...as always, but boring.

On topic; Kronos piano technology will of course trickle down on other Korg products like DP's and SV's and such some day. Probably not too long before that happens, because the DP range is already quite old. Hope they upgrade the keybeds then too.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording.

It could also be that the reinforcement they are doing isn't entirely up to snuff. We've all seen what's inside of the average $1000 - $2000 DPs: small amps coupled to very inexpensive drivers with poor acoustic treatment. I don't know the first thing about what's in the AG, but it wouldn't shock me if we found its speakers retailing for $5 a pop.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 06:41 PM

I'm not a fan of DT or JR, but I think you can piano quite a bit in the demo. As soon as I get to the sequencer I'll post some stuff that displays far less technical proficiency.

Originally Posted By: JFP
mmmmm, I'm always getting a little nervous by these JR demo's; tingle-tangle-tang-tingle-tingle-tingle-tang rush rush rush....look how many notes I can play in a microsecond. The fact is that simply because you CAN, doesn't mean you HAVE TO...

Some more balanced classical playing of a "moderate" piece would provide for a better impression on some subtleties of a grand-piano sounds than these nervous blocks of improvisations IMHO. Nevertheless great technique ...as always, but boring.

On topic; Kronos piano technology will of course trickle down on other Korg products like DP's and SV's and such some day. Probably not too long before that happens, because the DP range is already quite old. Hope they upgrade the keybeds then too.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
The Avant and V-grand both take steps in this direction, however, I think they have a long way to go to be successful in the goal of recreating the acoustic experience of a grand piano. Loudspeaker technology is limiting them as well as the fact that projecting sound in a natural way is going to require more than just making sure something sounds realistic in a stereo recording.

It could also be that the reinforcement they are doing isn't entirely up to snuff. We've all seen what's inside of the average $1000 - $2000 DPs: small amps coupled to very inexpensive drivers with poor acoustic treatment. I don't know the first thing about what's in the AG, but it wouldn't shock me if we found its speakers retailing for $5 a pop.


Speaker quality and amp quality are easy to address. The thing that distinguishes the AG (and V- grand) is that they are trying to recreate some of the dimensional aspects of a acoustic grand by providing multiple discrete channels that are being processed and output through discrete channels. You just aren't going to be able to reproduce the way an acoustic grand projects sound with a two channel source and speaker setup. It isn't really very different from trying to get surround sound from something that was recorded in 2 channels and is being played back through a stereo speaker setup.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/08/11 08:38 PM

Finally got to play the Kronos at Sam Ash in Hollyweird, but just the 61. I'll probably feel more excited about it after I play the 73/88. It was a pretty underwhelming experience AP wise. I was mostly focused on the 3 Roland DPs like I mentioned in that other thread and then noticed the kronos 61 over in corner. So playing the German Grand from a synth action was almost laughable. I'm sure it will be more positive playing the 73/88.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/09/11 12:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Finally got to play the Kronos at Sam Ash in Hollyweird, but just the 61. I'll probably feel more excited about it after I play the 73/88. It was a pretty underwhelming experience AP wise. I was mostly focused on the 3 Roland DPs like I mentioned in that other thread and then noticed the kronos 61 over in corner. So playing the German Grand from a synth action was almost laughable. That and the Herbie EP sounded good for sure but all the "other stuff"---sorry but I've come to a point in my life where all that is just sleep sleep

I'm sure it will be more positive playing the 73/88.


Yeah, when I first played the 61 it was really strange trying to play piano with a synth action. It felt like the sound was disconnected from the action. The RH3 obviously gives you a totally different experience. I really never got into the SV1 because of the action, but the sounds on the Kronos really overcome any shortcomings of the RH3 for me.

I'm not sure that the Kronos is right for you. Even though the pianos and EPs are great, you would end paying for a ton of technology you don't need. I will say that anyone looking for a workstation should get some time in with the Kronos because it is the legendary OASYS with new sound engines and more power.

Personally, I find the pianos on the Kronos to have the most organic sound of any DP I have played. I'm not sure it is enough to justify buying a workstation if you are looking for a DP, but it is certainly a pretty amazing creative tool.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 07/27/11 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The guy I deal with might be behind the curve in getting the 88/73 but his prices are much better then MF, GC, SW, etc.


Getting a little impatient over here so I called my guy today. He relayed to me what the Korg rep just told him-- unless you pre-ordered a 73/88 (I didn't) , you're looking at MAYBE Sept. or Oct. till they get somewhat caught up. He said there are only a hundred units coming into the US every month while there are hundreds of back orders. frown

I guess my joking remark about touching one around Halloween wasn't too far off the mark. Maybe I'll push that back to Thanksgiving now...cry
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 12:39 AM

Well FINALLY got to play the K88 at the GC in Hollyweird today.

In a nutshell--it's not for me. Very disappointing since I've been waiting 7.5 months to check it out, listening to every demo on youtube and reading a zillion posts on how it's the greatest thing. Maybe it is for many people that are more into synths, organ, rhodes and drum sounds then AP substitutes.

For me at this point in my musical journey, all of the aforementioned sounds, not to mention the genres of music that utilizes all of this stuff are simply not on my musical radar anymore.

I guess I'm more a purist or a dinosaur, however you want to look at it but I'm simply only interested in playing the piano in more of an Acoustic based style such as Jazz, light Classical or sub-genres of those styles.

The Kronos piano did sound very good but again that musical connection, that's hard to verbalize (at least for me), just was simply not there , even on the Dark German Grand. Forget that Japanese Grand--that about tore my head/ears off through the my AKG 240 phones. I guess it's somewhat related to their RH3 action but to tell the truth, I briefly went over to an SV-1 88 and as crazy as this might sound-actually dug the playing experience more. So go figure.

The K piano had a hard edged, harsh quality to it while playing even though it sounded really big and super hi-fi in the phones. I'm certain it will sound killer in more aggressive R&B, Rock and Fusion settings in the band while playing live--but again, I must be really mellowing in my older age as it wasn't my thing.

I kept playing the K88 and then rotating between the CP5, 700 & 300 NX, Nord Stage 2 88 (first time playing that), SV-1 88 , P155, MOX8 and S90XS. Again for pure piano playing experience they all smoked the Kronos imo.

Every time I played the CP5, it was like my inner musical voice was saying--yes, this is right, this is home base, this is me. The CP5 had more of an Acoustic vibe to it where the Kronos had more of an electronic, in your face kinda sound. I had the same reaction getting on the 700NX which was right next to the K88-the flagship Roland was just more expressive and had that more Acoustic/organic feeling as opposed to maybe a too cutting edge sound (?) of the Korg. Again this stuff is hard for me to verbalize folks. I'm not a writer but a player. But I do know instantly (most of the time laugh ) if something's right or wrong for me.

For rhodes folks, this your ax ! I've owned 3 in my life and this is as close as it gets. For me, it's simply--ok great rhodes, who cares...

So for the average keyboard player guy reading this, the reaction is probably--aw this guy's nuts, what's he talkin' about ! But maybe for pianists who do more of what I do, they can relate.

I had high hopes for the K88 or 73 has an alternative to always bringing the CP5. Maybe if they dumb it down to an SV-2 I could see it would be cool to have--but as is, too much stuff I won't use and more importantly--don't wanna have to use. I simply just want to play the piano....

So where do I turn ? Maybe the Nord Piano again. I'll definitely have lower expectations going in. I'll be looking at it more from a portability stand point then an expressive instrument where I can play and sound at my best.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 01:17 AM

Interesting post Dave, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 01:40 AM

Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grown to prefer my SN piano sounds.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grime to prefer my SN piano sounds.


Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!

I'm developing a theory about the way us "electronic" guys keep changing our minds about their gear. I might start a new thread about it in the next few days.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 03:26 AM

Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grime to prefer my SN piano sounds.


Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!

I'm developing a theory about the way us "electronic" guys keep changing our minds about their gear. I might start a new thread about it in the next few days.


Great pianos and EPs in a workstation. That hasn't really changed. I always knew the action wasn't great and thought build quality sucked from the beginning. But, the action has started to annoy me and the GUI and tactile interface make woking with it irritating.
It's hard to judge those things until you have some time with it.

I don't know that I change my mind that much regarding my gear. I think in the case of the Kronos, buying the Jupiter and a robust Mac setup highlighted some of the Kronos' shortcomings, but I was concerned with the action and build quality when I bought it.

Also, I'm really an acoustic guy.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 03:53 AM

I'll buy it off you for half price... wink
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 07:52 AM

Very interesting observations....

As has often been demonstrated with sample libraries - despite a trillion gigabytes, you still have to relate to it on some sort of level (a really instinctive, emotional level) that doesn't seem all that dependent on the specs actually. I relate to the Nord better than I did to the Roland SN - whilst accepting that SN is significantly superior in some technical aspects. Now the AG suits me even better because the Nord gives you all it's got too easily - certainly not a criticism of the sounds, more perhaps the velocity curve and/or the keys.

The Kronos is out for me due to the key action and just the fact it does so much more than I could ever want. The Nord is a really nicely focused 'board - nothing unnecessary about it - but I might have to go out and get some real quality time in on an MP10 and CP5 some day. I've previously been a critic of Yamaha but really getting into the AG and a CP33 I currently also own has made me appreciate what Yamaha does much more than I ever did before (AG and CP33 are completely different by the way, but both are satisfying to connect with).

It's a shame there is a level of disappointment with the Kronos because for a while it looked like it might be the answer for a lot of folks - no doubt it is for some of course but it goes to prove once again that gigabytes do not necessarily make for a better experience.

Steve
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 10:39 AM

Steve, I'll be honest with you, having hooked up the NP88 to the N1, not just the Electro which doesn't have the details in the piano voices of the NP88 like string/sympathetic resonance, there is nothing left in the DP world that will impress me. I've got the best action available in any DP, and IMHO the most organic, playable, and varied acoustic piano sounds available in a DP. Like you said, the search is over. I've played all the major players, Kronos included, and everything else seems to get bland after a while. Never the case with the NP88, and if I get tired of playing the N1, then I'd be tired of playing an acoustic, because that thing is a real joy to play.

I actually just took my NP88 to a gig yesterday, and it was the first time I've played on it in 3 weeks, outside of hooking it up to the N1, and I was having so much fun. I look at it differently now, and I actually quite enjoyed the action, and the killer piano sounds. I've NEVER received the compliments from FOH guys before like I do with the NP88. It's a unique instrument in an otherwise seemingly bland field of players. This is no discredit to the MP10, RD-700NX, CP5, SV-1, Kronos, etc., it's just they're all improved versions of what's already been here. The NP88 seems to have brought something refreshing with Nord's approach to building a stage piano.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 01:08 PM

I'm going to have to try NP with AG controlling it...due to my living arrangements I can't link them up permanently...but for an occasional play I'll probably get away with it! And no doubt I'll share your enthusiasm for the combination.

Steve
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/15/11 01:12 PM

In all of these more sophisticated boards, buying them is something of a leap of faith. It takes many hours, days, if not weeks of auditioning, tinkering, and using it for different purposes, to fully get a handle on what works for you and what doesn't. That's one of the nice things about buying from a place that has a 30-60 day return policy.

I like my Kronos. Not as much as I hoped/expected to, but enough to keep it. I'm not using it for piano, though. I agree with Dave about the superiority of all those Yamaha boards, and probably the Roland (at least the 700) and Nord, when it comes to strictly piano playing, whether because of sound, action, or both. I'm keeping the Kronos primarily for its organ and sample loading functions. I do agree its EP sounds are great, too. I might get into some of its VA capabilities, I really haven't played with that at all yet. And I do like the Set List functionality.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/16/11 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
The K piano had a hard edged, harsh quality to it while playing ......


I had a chance to play the K88 yet again today at the GC in Sherman Oaks after a short recording session. I did like it a bit more then the other day--enough to want to remove the adjective *harsh* from my post. It's not harsh, just...maybe lackluster ? Not the German Grand sample, that is without question excellent. I'm speaking of the sound to action connection and the expressibility for me. Again I went over to a nearby 700nx, CP5 and MOX8 for comparison and again in all cases, for a straight piano playing connection, I would opt for the CP5, 700NX and MoX8--in that order.

And also again, fwiw and imo. smile
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/16/11 10:51 PM

I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.




[/quote]
Posted by: kippesc

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 12:17 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace


Now the AG suits me even better because the Nord gives you all it's got too easily - certainly not a criticism of the sounds, more perhaps the velocity curve and/or the keys.



You have to pound the living daylights out of the AG (in my case, an N2) to hit velocity 127. It's scary how hard you have to hit the keys -- ffff, I would say. (Think NBA basketball slam dunk or Jerry Lee Lewis heel on the keyboard.) I have found that, in using Ivory, I generally have to set the top of the velocity curve at about 112, which increases the slope of a nearly linear "curve," in order to get a realistic response.

By contrast, you get to 127 pretty easily on a Roland RD-700NX. I'm not a big pounder of the piano, so it's fine with me that the Roland doesn't go to fff.

I would guess that Yamaha AG N2 velocity-110 equals Roland RD-700NX velocity-127.
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 12:23 AM

You are correct in everything you said over there Hideki. They are being a little sensitive. Most of them are keyboard players. You are both a keyboard player and a pianist.

I played a 61 this weekend and yes the screen blows. Not doubt about that. My big fingers would not like that screen. My Triton was much better than that. I couldn't hear myself in GC to really listen to the Kronos so I gave up.

No worries Man!
Posted by: kippesc

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Steve, I'll be honest with you, having hooked up the NP88 to the N1, not just the Electro which doesn't have the details in the piano voices of the NP88 like string/sympathetic resonance, there is nothing left in the DP world that will impress me. I've got the best action available in any DP, and IMHO the most organic, playable, and varied acoustic piano sounds available in a DP. Like you said, the search is over. I've played all the major players, Kronos included, and everything else seems to get bland after a while. Never the case with the NP88, and if I get tired of playing the N1, then I'd be tired of playing an acoustic, because that thing is a real joy to play.



If you get a chance to try the N1 with the Ivory Steinway or Ivory Fazioli, you may like that a lot too. I've never played a Nord, but when I A/B the AG internal samples against the Ivory Steinway (controlled with the AG), the contrast is dramatic and strongly favors Ivory. It is, however, very important to get the velocity curve set correctly. These days I cap the velocity at 112 and increase the "hardness" of the curve to 5 or 10 percent. And the buffer needs to be dropped from the default 512 to 256.

I know there are a lot of AG lovers on this forum, but for me that machine is primarily a MIDI controller these days (and a truly great one, mind you). Ivory and the Roland RD-700NX have more satisfying and less artificial AP sound.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 02:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Well FINALLY got to play the K88 at the GC in Hollyweird today.



The Kronos piano did sound very good but again that musical connection, that's hard to verbalize (at least for me), just was simply not there ,

.


But no matter how you look at it the sound of the Kronos is excellent Dave IMHO .The weird "vibe" of the Kronos when playing AP is to do with the action and connection and its a issue that isn't as bad with the SV-1 possibly because of the superior sounds in the Kronos. The action is a poor AP substitute rather then trying to be a great action that isn't directly trying to mimic a AP (like the CP1/5 which is a GREAT action ...graded or not). I must admit the build quality issues and the action bring the Kronos down but the EP/AP/Organs ans Synth engines do sound fantastic. It's not a board I'd use to replace say a XF8 because it doesn't "feel" great but it sure sounds great. We can't have everything I guess.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 02:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.



That is quite simply a DISGRACE !!!!!
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 03:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

But no matter how you look at it the sound of the Kronos is excellent Dave IMHO .We can't have everything I guess.


Like I said today DP
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
It's not harsh, just...maybe lackluster ? Not the German Grand sample, that is without question excellent. I'm speaking of the sound to action connection and the expressibility for me.


I agree 110% the sound is special. But like I said in my first post, it's not special enough for me, being more of a pianist , doing more acoustic type gigs, to warrant laying out $3500 on synth/organ/etc features that have no relevance to my preference to try to stay out of the pop/R&R/RnB world. For the latter applications, it's arguably the best thing going right now, no question.

I also agree we can't have everything... smile
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 10:55 AM

Build quality aside... Here are some new youtube posts of the Kronos AP only. German and Japanese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXkIEXLxp0w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrzlzlQcdo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2t5j9vGu9A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k97hcPUVv4&feature=related

Maybe I should get myself a 61 and drive the board with my MP10... smile
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 12:36 PM

Checked out the Kronos today. What a wonderful instrument!
However the weakest point in my opinion is the piano sounds. There are two pianos a German and a Japanese, the rest of the pianos are varients o these. The best of these two IMO is the German, but was not what I expected, not quite good enough, nearly but not quite.

For me the piano sounded a bit like those Yahama PSR sounds - top of the PSR range but PSR. The middle range was ... I dont really know hiow to put this, something toyish about it. Maybe this too harsh, its definitely useable, but would this be my goto piano. Definitely NO. Its all very clean, the bottom range (as far as I could check on a 61, was OK-ish) but could have a little more substance muddle range was clean clean clean squeeky clean 'cute', 'chocolate box' perhaps, difficult to describe what I felt, but it was NOT love.
This instrument was located above a G8 so that I could play one hand on a fantom G8 and another on the Kronos - both going through the same system - the fantom pianos had much more b@lls, across the board - it was obvious and this was not simply levels.

The only other quibble I had was the build quality - again compared to the G8 'tank' the Kronos was a 2CV.

Thats the bad stuff, but the rest of the Kronos was SUPERB!

Its got a 30 gig SSd drive and a large touch screen. The interface is well laid out and I can see that if you spend a couple of evenings alone with it, the interface would prove easy. It also very well equipped with the right parameters (and a sequencer). The touch screen means that you ca get visual representations of pedals curves and a lot more making the whole epxerience very powerful and intuitive.

The other sounds.


Across all the other sounds, e pianos, drawbars, choirs syths, orchestras it was scoring 9.5 out of ten with me. The guitar section took particular merit as this was the best synth guitar I have heard and the parameters (often visual representations of amps etc, gave wonderful authentic sounds.

My (subjective) conclusion

As a synth it is up there with the bes - pssibly the best. As a piano unfortunately it scores 7/10 not bad, but not one of the best.

The 61 I tried had a non weighted keyboard, so I can say nothing about its weighted action

I think I am back to buying a Roland 700NX and a Nord C2, once I have done that then, when money permits, I go back to look at the Kronus for its synth powers.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero
The 61 had a non weighted keyboard, so I can say nothing about its weighted action

The Kronos pianos do "play" better from a weighted action. OTOH, I know from the other thread that you like light actions, so I have a feeling you might not be so enamored of the weighted Kronos action anyway. But as an experiment some time, you might find it interesting to determin whether you like the Kronos piano any more when you have the opportunity to play it from a weighted action. (Also, if the store doesn't have a weighted action Kronos for you to play, you can at least get *some* idea of the difference if you just run a MIDI cable from any nearby weighted board, and play the Kronos from the other board.)
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: kippesc




If you get a chance to try the N1 with the Ivory Steinway or Ivory Fazioli, you may like that a lot too. I've never played a Nord, but when I A/B the AG internal samples against the Ivory Steinway (controlled with the AG), the contrast is dramatic and strongly favors Ivory. It is, however, very important to get the velocity curve set correctly. These days I cap the velocity at 112 and increase the "hardness" of the curve to 5 or 10 percent. And the buffer needs to be dropped from the default 512 to 256.

I know there are a lot of AG lovers on this forum, but for me that machine is primarily a MIDI controller these days (and a truly great one, mind you). Ivory and the Roland RD-700NX have more satisfying and less artificial AP sound.


I totally agree with you in regards to the AG sound, through headphones. But through it's speaker system, I quite like the AG and think it sounds much better than through headphones. I will definitely take your advice though and order software and MIDI that to the N1.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 02:56 PM

Just for info purposes the keyboards were playing back through Genelecs, not headphones. EAven on signle notes - especially in the bass it was obvious that the fantom had more body (on its first DG patch).
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 03:52 PM

Not the best demo videos because that PianoChuck guy really can't play! But it does give you an idea of the tone of the samples, which are really very good. I look at the Kronos as a workstation that's primarily for producing recordings. The 88-key model clearly not a live gigging instrument because the action and build isn't strong enough. If it was just used for producing compositions and recordings, I think it could be a very good solution for a lot of people. Plus, it's hard to ague with the price. I do think Korg missed a golden opportunity to update their action though. If the action was as good as, say, the MP10, I think people wouldn't mind the touch screen so much.

If I came across a Kronos 88 at a bargain price, I would buy it just to have so many sounds in one box. My studio is already bursting at the seams!
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 04:59 PM

I have to say I'm really surprised at all these "build quality" criticisms. It looks and feels fine to me. Just put it in a good case. I mean, heck, bands tour with acoustic guitars, violins, and other delicate instruments. What makes people think the Kronos is going to fall apart if you just handle it like you would any good instrument? Presumably you won't be attacking it with knives a la Keith Emerson...
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 05:41 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I have to say I'm really surprised at all these "build quality" criticisms. It looks and feels fine to me. Just put it in a good case. I mean, heck, bands tour with acoustic guitars, violins, and other delicate instruments. What makes people think the Kronos is going to fall apart if you just handle it like you would any good instrument? Presumably you won't be attacking it with knives a la Keith Emerson...


Well, I have never purchased a keyboard that has a note telling you to keep cardboard inserts for use every time the keyboard is transported. Instead of designing it properly, they ended up using metal a design that can flex up front. The remedy is to tell the customer they need to keep little pieces or cardboard to stuff in front of the keys.

The pictures of my key top levels is pretty pathetic.

Probably not as bad as it may seem, but there are definitely a few areas where better materials or a more thoughtful design could have resulted in a more polished product.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
I'm not getting much love over at the Kronos forum. Perhaps I am being a bit too critical of the Kronos, but when I look down at my action and I see this mess, what can I say? Acceptable or not? I say not.




[/quote]

That is appalling Hideki. Korg ought to be ashamed they release something with such poor craftsmanship.
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


I also agree we can't have everything... smile


Yeah but come on Dave, you've been around the block and have more experience than most of us on here, and you have to admit, Korg didn't need to design and build such a nice sounding board with such poor craftsmanship. It seems that the 61 key would be the only one possibly worthwhile, but then again, for that kind of money, you can put a little more aside and get the Jupiter 80.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 06:48 PM

I only demoed a 61 but IMO The built quality is not anywhere as near as good as say a Fantom, but its also not that bad. The pitch stick looks like it would snap easy. its better than say a psr, quite elegant looking. The touch screen seems pretty robust. its lighter which is good for gigging and carrying up teh garden down the stairs.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Well, I have never purchased a keyboard that has a note telling you to keep cardboard inserts for use every time the keyboard is transported.

Ah, that's news to me, I guess I missed the note! Is that just on the weighted actions?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/17/11 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
It seems that the 61 key would be the only one possibly worthwhile, but then again, for that kind of money, you can put a little more aside and get the Jupiter 80.

Those two instruments seem so different though... I wouldn't think that one's choice between the two would come down to dollars. Though the reason I never even looked at a Jupiter 80 was simply because it's 39 lbs, too heayy for me.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/18/11 09:55 AM

thanks for all your help guys I bought the 700nx and the c2.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/18/11 10:19 AM

Congrats!

Just curious why you went with the RD-700NX over the MP10?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/18/11 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Congrats!

Just curious why you went with the RD-700NX over the MP10?

Cheers,
James
x

That pretty LCD screen of course! wink

Congrats ZeroZero and welcome to the Nord family. The C2 is a bada$$ sounding digital organ not to mention it looks too cool.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/18/11 11:21 AM

Thank you James - the answer is simple really, they don't stock them and as I had already returned a stage 2 for poor piano sounds Digital VIllage took it back no grumbles (I love this store), I did not want to wander.

The Kawai sounds better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL6VeyvMcB0

its a close run thing though wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Mg2zPJBM&playnext=1&list=PLA11FCA5EFCAF6DE1

Could the amp or the room
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/18/11 08:01 PM

Ah, I see.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/19/11 09:44 PM

Yikes. Those Korg guys are hammering me for complaining about the construction of the RH3. It's absurd to me that any keyboard these days should suffer from gross uneven spacing and different key heights.

One member has opened his up and is of the opinion that the RH3 has fine construction because it uses real hammers to grade the weights, a nice felt carpet to soften the strike and the action is bolted directly bottom of the keyboard instead of being independently secured. Sounds like a bad design to me. Doesn't look so great either:




Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 01:01 AM

I played the Kronos 88 again for the third time last night. The SV-1 was 15 feet away. I like it better-can't put my finger on it but it just feels more right. Maybe it's an omen for the SV-1--third time's a charm.. cry confused

It seems to be working out for my buddy mazetov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxkRsIctPX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95itd0TBNzQ

After reading more of those post over there, it's obvious most of those people are not pianists but keyboardists---big difference. Certainly not a place for me to be hangin' out.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 02:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
the action is bolted directly bottom of the keyboard instead of being independently secured. Sounds like a bad design to me.


The action has to be secured to something inside the keyboard, there aren't too many options there. Securing it to the bottom is as good a place as any - provided the bottom isn't subject to torsional flexing. I don't know if it is though.

I'm the kind of guy who will pull things apart and improve them if I'm not happy with what I see. Never owned something that I didn't end up pulling apart. If I saw flexing, I'd weld/bolt some support rods in there. Better to wait til after the warranty period, of course. It might be possible to straighten up the action too. I agree that you shouldn't have to do it though.

I suspect that a Kronos 88 that you buy 1 year from now will be a better machine than the current one. They will be on top of the construction flaws by then. I think they are rushing too fast to build them at the moment. Beats me why they didn't just release them a few months later and have a heap of them prebuilt to reduce the pressure. Having back-orders on a new product is bad business.
Posted by: ZeroZero

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 03:34 AM

Ando I do hope your right I tried all the Yamahas, Rolands and the Fantom this week the one that has really stuck in my mind is the Kronus - except the build quality and the paino sounds.

Its a shame!
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 06:36 AM

Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
the action is bolted directly bottom of the keyboard instead of being independently secured. Sounds like a bad design to me.


The action has to be secured to something inside the keyboard, there aren't too many options there. Securing it to the bottom is as good a place as any - provided the bottom isn't subject to torsional flexing. I don't know if it is though.

I'm the kind of guy who will pull things apart and improve them if I'm not happy with what I see. Never owned something that I didn't end up pulling apart. If I saw flexing, I'd weld/bolt some support rods in there. Better to wait til after the warranty period, of course. It might be possible to straighten up the action too. I agree that you shouldn't have to do it though.

I suspect that a Kronos 88 that you buy 1 year from now will be a better machine than the current one. They will be on top of the construction flaws by then. I think they are rushing too fast to build them at the moment. Beats me why they didn't just release them a few months later and have a heap of them prebuilt to reduce the pressure. Having back-orders on a new product is bad business.


Bottom is just MDF. I wouldn't count out flex in any part of the Kronos chassis. They tell you to keep cardboard inserts to put in front of the keys during transportation because the front can otherwise flex and hit the keys. I'm all for a design if it works, but there is something they are doing that just isn't working. I think it has more to do with the sheet of felt than bolting it directly to the bottom.

I sent an email to Korg. If they say it is normal, I'm selling my Kronos.

Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 12:52 PM

Originally Posted By: ando
Beats me why they didn't just release them a few months later


I think they wanted to announce at WInter NAMM for marketing purposes... and considering what seems to have been a very successful launch, I guess it was a good call.

Originally Posted By: ando
and have a heap of them prebuilt to reduce the pressure.


Financially, what reduces pressure on the ramp up of a new product is to have a whole bunch of them pre-sold, which they did. So, maybe bad in one way but good in another.


Originally Posted By: ando

Having back-orders on a new product is bad business.


Tell that to Apple. ;-)
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 01:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
[quote=ando][quote=HidekiMatsui]

I sent an email to Korg. If they say it is normal, I'm selling my Kronos.



Let us know Hideki what they say. Did you happen to email Korg the photos you posted here? Pretty telling photos.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 02:22 PM

I did e-mail Korg with the pictures and am waiting to hear back. Another person who just played the 88 in store reported he saw the same thing on the RH3 in store. Not a great sign.

Dan, a Korg representative stated that he was not aware of any consistency issues with the RH3. I have a hard time believing that based on what I have seen on the SV1. Either that or he means that they are aware that their build quality is consistently inconsistent.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/20/11 07:39 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: ando
Beats me why they didn't just release them a few months later


I think they wanted to announce at WInter NAMM for marketing purposes... and considering what seems to have been a very successful launch, I guess it was a good call.

Originally Posted By: ando
and have a heap of them prebuilt to reduce the pressure.


Financially, what reduces pressure on the ramp up of a new product is to have a whole bunch of them pre-sold, which they did. So, maybe bad in one way but good in another.


Originally Posted By: ando

Having back-orders on a new product is bad business.


Tell that to Apple. ;-)


Apple has the same mentality of rushing products to the market place before they have a reserve stock of product and also before they have solved all of the issues the product has. Even though Apple is a successful company, it doesn't mean that they are necessarily behaving optimally. Apple are lucky in that most of their "rush to production" problems are software based rather than hardware based so they can afford to release a problem with bugs because they can issue patches/updates. Products with mechanical componentry like the Kronos have much bigger issues if things are not done properly. Product recalls on large bulky items can be absolutely ruinous.

If you have long back orders on products you will always lose some customers who either don't want to wait, or lose interest in the initial buzz about a product. That's what I think is silly about the Kronos launch. I can see that they wanted to get in before the NAMM deadline, but they should have managed their production better so that there were plenty of keyboards ready to go by the time of the launch. Korg is such a strong company that there was very little risk of not selling what they built. Rushed production almost always leads to quality control problems - which in turn harms sales. I still maintain that it's bad business and ultimately more risky.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/21/11 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: ando
If you have long back orders on products you will always lose some customers who either don't want to wait, or lose interest in the initial buzz about a product.

OTOH, by announcing early, you also gain some customers who choose to wait for it rather than buy something that might have otherwise bought.

Originally Posted By: ando
I can see that they wanted to get in before the NAMM deadline, but they should have managed their production better so that there were plenty of keyboards ready to go by the time of the launch.
...
Rushed production almost always leads to quality control problems

You're saying they should have rushed production to have them ready at NAMM launch, but that rushed production leads to more problems...?
Posted by: jve

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/21/11 01:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
Dan, a Korg representative stated that he was not aware of any consistency issues with the RH3. I have a hard time believing that based on what I have seen on the SV1. Either that or he means that they are aware that their build quality is consistently inconsistent.

Hi, the SV1 88 I used to own did have uneven key spacing, although as far as I could tell it didn't affect functionality -- it was more of an aesthetic issue. When lifting the unit from one end, parts of the body would flex to varying degrees, slightly offsetting the keyboard with respect to the front panel, for instance. I've seen this on other stage pianos as well, I don't think it's uncommon.

There were other things about build quality that disturbed me more -- such as the somewhat plasticky front panel controls.

-joachim
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/21/11 06:01 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: ando
If you have long back orders on products you will always lose some customers who either don't want to wait, or lose interest in the initial buzz about a product.

OTOH, by announcing early, you also gain some customers who choose to wait for it rather than buy something that might have otherwise bought.

Originally Posted By: ando
I can see that they wanted to get in before the NAMM deadline, but they should have managed their production better so that there were plenty of keyboards ready to go by the time of the launch.
...
Rushed production almost always leads to quality control problems

You're saying they should have rushed production to have them ready at NAMM launch, but that rushed production leads to more problems...?


You don't have to have products ready to sell in large numbers to promote them at NAMM though. They could display their carefully checked prototypes at NAMM and then give a release date that gives them time to produce them in reasonable numbers and at a decent quality level. This also achieves the effect you were talking about with having people know about them in advance and waiting if they are keen enough. I wasn't saying they shouldn't announce things when they like, but they should choose an appropriate release date that doesn't involve uncertain delivery time and put them under extreme pressure to cut corners.

One thing that's for sure, having every keyboard forum discussing concerns about build quality is not a good advertisement for the Kronos. I believe in the long run it more than offsets the advantages of earlier releases and taking pre-orders. On flagship products, quality does factor into things. In that sense it's different to an iPad or something. Those things are not a big investment and not such a big risk. When you are talking about a $4,000 keyboard, it counts. I should also add that I would never place a pre-order for anything - especially several months. If I buy something, I want it to be available to me immediately. So that strategy obviously doesn't work on me.

That's just the way I see it. Maybe we have to agree to disagree on this one.
Posted by: marknz

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/22/11 04:30 AM

Dave, like you I've had the opportunity to play the Kronos and I wasn't blown away with the piano sounds or the EP's especially. The two clips you've listed show that the SV1 is not a poor comparison to the Kronos but IMO just as good or better. The key spacings is eratic but the action fronts ok. Of the two boards I own the SV1 is often my first choice when I just want to play - a very simple board that I really enjoy. Maybe third time lucky as you said.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 08/22/11 10:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I played the Kronos 88 again for the third time last night. The SV-1 was 15 feet away. I like it better-can't put my finger on it but it just feels more right. Maybe it's an omen for the SV-1--third time's a charm.. cry confused

It seems to be working out for my buddy mazetov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxkRsIctPX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95itd0TBNzQ

After reading more of those post over there, it's obvious most of those people are not pianists but keyboardists---big difference. Certainly not a place for me to be hangin' out.


Those clips sound good Dave, but I think, after two tries, you should know by now it ain't working for you! smile

What's the saying, 'once bitten, twice shy'!
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 01:17 AM

I was able to play the Kronos 88 at the Sherman Oaks GC. This was the first time I'd heard it through quality speakers, my previous listenings had always been with my 240 headphones.

They had a pair of Dynaudio BM5A-MK IIs hooked up to the K88. I'm a fan of the Dyns, I own the BM6A-MK IIs.

The playing and listening experience was quite different then the phones. I concentrated only on the German Piano and the all the different Rhodes and wurli variations-there are quite a few. The sound was more flattering then the phones for a change. The rhodes seemed to have a bigger, more realistic sound, it definitely felt more *alive* and just fun to play. Very impressive for sure. Since EP's characteristics react sonically different then APs, the RH3 action was well suited and the player connection was excellent I felt, no complaints. I saw a few gaps in the key spacing and a few uneven keys but overall no problems physically playing the thing, really smooth--who knows how it will be in a year down the road or less if you're taking it out for gigs.

The APs were excellent which has been stated often now. The player connection seemed better through the speakers too although still on the sterile side for my taste. I will say, just from playing it in the store, the Kronos APs would work well enough to do a jazz trio gig with.

Although I say that with reservations having been bitten too many times in the past by that feeling of euphoria in the store, and even in my studio, with the chosen instrument for a week--only to be disappointed half way through the first set of a Friday night gig with a real rhythm section.

If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.

If anyone in the LA area wants to check out the Kronos with good monitors, I'd recommend a trip to the Sherman Oaks GC. Probably best during the week in the early to late mornings to avoid the usual sonic onslaught that is common at these kind of places.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 01:32 AM

Well when its released I expect you to buy it ;-)


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.

Posted by: voxpops

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 07:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Well when its released I expect you to buy it ;-)


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


If we could fast forward to this time next year I would be very into a watered down Kronos or SV-2 with those EP & AP sounds if they do go that route with their current technology. As it stands right now and as I've mentioned a few times, there are still too many features on the Kronos I will never use and don't want to pay premium dollars for.


There'll likely be a couple of lightly used DPs for sale in Oregon when the SV-2 makes its appearance!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 08:21 AM

And possibly an Electro 3 in Hamamatsu...

Dr P, any beans you're prepared to spill about the SV-2?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 08:47 AM

After 3 months of using the Kronos, I have to say that I am really not that impressed. EPs have been great since day 1 and that hasn't changed, but I have become a little less enamored with the piano sounds. RH3 is perfectly playable but not what I would want on my primary DP. Synth engines are deep but also have a distinct Korg sound. The rest of the sounds are not so good compared to my other boards and software.

In any case, I am holding on to the Kronos until Roland or Yamaha rolls out their next workstation but I think buying the Kronos isn't a great choice for those primarily interested in a stage piano... Definitely wait for the SV2.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 09:07 AM

Interesting to read your thoughts Hideki...and has it really been three months?

James
x
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 09:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Interesting to read your thoughts Hideki...and has it really been three months?

James
x


Just about. More like 2 1/2.

I think some people will love the Kronos, but for me, it just doesn't sound spectacular across the board. Some areas are really strong, but other areas sound really average for a workstation. I also feel that a board costing almost $4k should reflect a better design and build quality.

I think buying the Jupiter around the same time didn't do the Kronos any favors. As different as they are, there is something about the the sound and playability of the Jupiter that makes the kronos feel a bit dull in comparison.

The Kronos does have some great vintage keyboard sounds which would port over very nicely in a SV2.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 09:46 AM

To me, the Kronos strengths are the Set List feature, the CX3 organ, the EPs, and the prospect of being able to store tons of custom multi-level samples on its SSD for quick access. Possibly all the VA synth stuff too... my own needs are such that I haven't really gotten into that yet. To my ears, piano is not a Kronos strength. I find the Kronos pianos merely adequate. Despite their technical inferiorities, I find numerous other hardware pianos more musical, more satisfying to play.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
To me, the Kronos strengths are the Set List feature, the CX3 organ, the EPs, and the prospect of being able to store tons of custom multi-level samples on its SSD for quick access. Possibly all the VA synth stuff too... my own needs are such that I haven't really gotten into that yet. To my ears, piano is not a Kronos strength. I find the Kronos pianos merely adequate. Despite their technical inferiorities, I find numerous other hardware pianos more musical, more satisfying to play.
.

Set list and smooth transition are great live tools. I think the Kronos has very strong sounds for the live player... Just remember to keep your cardboard spacer inserts for transport.

I'm with you on the pianos... I prefer the SN pianos at this point. EPs are still my favorite and probably the one reason I am reluctant to part with the Kronos. I'm not much of an organ guy so I can't comment there.

Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 10:25 AM

I played the Kronos 88 yesterday at GC, and the RH3 action seemed ok to play, but the key spacing was obvious all over the place. The APs sound good, but no better than the APs inside my N1. I had to restart the Kronos and good grief that thing takes longer than my Macs to restart!!

As for the SV-2, that would be a sweet board. I played the SV-1 73 yesterday, and if there's a couple boards out there I'd consider getting rid of my NE3 61 for, it'd be the SV-1 73 and NE3HP. The SV-1 73 has such a cool vibe, looks killer, sounds killer, and works live from what I can tell in YouTube videos (though, that's not the best judge). I have serious GAS for the SV-1 73 for some reason. laugh
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 12:45 PM

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
........ I had to restart the Kronos and good grief that thing takes longer than my Macs to restart!!

As for the SV-2, that would be a sweet board. ........ I have serious GAS for the SV-1 73 for some reason. laugh


Yeah that long startup issue is another huge negative for me. I know guys are starting to carry small power conditioners (or whatever they're called) with them but I don't want to have to mess with that anymore then I would using a laptop and software pianos.

Again I was playing the SV-1 yesterday in conjunction with the K88 and it still holds its own quite well I feel ; especially if you add those soundpack 2 sounds. It's a big improvement over the original EP & APs not to mention the organs, strings and even a few misc. synth sounds.

It's too bad the build quality and QC issues on the SV-1 seem much worse then the Kronos. I personally never had any problems but then I didn't own the SV-1 for any extended period of time. However if you go on the Korg forum under the SV1 section, it's littered with everything from start up problems to sticking or noisy keys to output noises to........

I think it would be a bad time to invest in a brand new one considering all of that history plus it's in the middle or probably near the end of its product life. Korg doesn't seem to be too concerned with it right now. They made their initial dough off of it and will probably continue to sell units to people who don't read internet keyboard forums.

I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 12:56 PM

I love my NP88 more than any board I've ever owned by a long shot, but sometimes I'm tempted to just down size my gigging rig to one board, and since the NP88 is a one trick pony, a really good one albeit, I've been thinking of going to possibly the NE3HP. I'd get the latest tech from Nord, good hammer action, organs, synths, strings, Sample and Piano Libraries, updates, etc. with light weight and enough key range to play most of what I play no problem. I'd say I rarely play the top octave on my NP88/N1 so I may not miss that. The only problem with the NE3HP is it's RAM is so limited, I could never use an XL sample, and could only have one Lrg Bosie/S4 sample and one Lrg C7/Steinway D sample, and a couple Rhodes/Wurly. I'd problem go forward with the NE3HP if it had another 100MB of RAM.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 01:41 PM

what happens to all these boards people buy and return? everybody who posts here seems to have owned every board at some point in time, and returned 90% of them. must be a huge refurbished/ b stock market in these things. UPS loves all of you dearly


Hideki...seems like you have entered the user/listener fatigue stage of ownership. you think you might come out of it in a couple months? I admit that when you started touting Kronos- i went to the website and listened to the AP demos and I didnt get any spine tingles- which i have felt with the NP88 if the website demos are accurate...anyway, it seems like we all create a certain suspension of disbelief that makes us love these keyboards when we first get them, and its inevitable that it fades away and we stare at the warts for awhile. I am also growing weary of reading how everything works for "Live Performance" when the bloom comes off the rose for solo playing and possible recording (which is why i think you have to stay in the sweet spot of price/performance and not overpay for the shiniest, newest keyboard-like i did with the v-piano)...

Zachary- say it ain't so. You've been the NP88's biggest supporter! be careful with the velocity curve on the NE3- it may be too fast for less aggressive acoustic piano...
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 01:50 PM

Bruce, yeah I'm not parting with the NP88 anytime soon. I just like the idea of downsizing. My priorities really changed after I got the AvantGrand N1. Now that I have virtually an acoustic grand to practice and build technique on, the need for having an 88 key board is less important as is the need for having the closest thing to an acoustic piano action. Something that is light light light, sounds good live, plays well, offers flexibility, and offers the sounds I use gigging personally and accompanying others is what I was thinking.

Don't worry, I'm not getting rid of the NP88 anytime soon...unless Nord pull a fast one and offer an NE3HP with 300MB+ RAM at Winter NAMM. wink
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 03:33 PM

Bfb.... I do still think the piano sounds are great, however I bought the Jupiter shortly thereafter and really appreciate the nuances of the SN pianos.

I still love the EPs.

The action is perfectly playable, but construction is average at best. Overall construction isn't really what I would want in a gigging board, but due care should prevent damage.

My view of the Kronos was somewhat affected by the Jupiter and it's superb design/build and great sound quality across the board.

I still think the Kronos is the best workstation currently available, but I also know it will get sold as soon as Roland announces their next workstation.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 05:55 PM

Hideki, I found your comments about the Kronos having a certain "Korg" sound interesting - and I do agree with you there. But I also find there is a very distinct Roland sound in all their gear too. I think it comes down to which brand floats your boat more. The good news is that both companies are still improving their sound quality. Roland definitely wins on build quality though - with the notable exception of the ivory-touch keys problem.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/14/11 06:07 PM

Originally Posted By: ando
Hideki, I found your comments about the Kronos having a certain "Korg" sound interesting - and I do agree with you there. But I also find there is a very distinct Roland sound in all their gear too. I think it comes down to which brand floats your boat more. The good news is that both companies are still improving their sound quality. Roland definitely wins on build quality though - with the notable exception of the ivory-touch keys problem.



Definitely. When it comes to synths each brand has it's own sound. I do think that the Jupiter offers some unique abilities because of it's structure, however, the Korg synth engines are deep and excellent.

That being said, when comes to many other areas, I think the Kronos definitely has a distinctly dated sound compared to the Jupiter. The Kronos' lifeless samples simply can't compete with the dynamic nature of many SN sounds.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/15/11 03:21 AM

It will definitely be interesting when Roland releases its next workstation - if they include the SN pianos, the PHA III action and the synth features from the Jupiter 80, I'll slap my money down right now. That would be a dream machine. What are the chances of them including all that, do you think?
Posted by: Speedy

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/15/11 09:58 AM

The new sound-set of programs and combis for the Kronos should make things interesting.

http://korg.com/go.aspx?kronos_sounds
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/15/11 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.


Dave I just listened to the SP2 audio demos for the SV-1 and I'm impressed. Definitely a step up from the SP1 sounds. The SV-1 73 is so tempting...
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Kronos is out! - 09/15/11 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


I could see picking up one used but in mint shape. There was a 73 on CL that the guy said was barely played, he was asking $1200 for it. I saw an 88 that wasn't on there too long for $1500. So there still is interest in the SV-1. If I could find a mint 73 for $1000 to $1100 I might be tempted to jump on it myself.


Dave I just listened to the SP2 audio demos for the SV-1 and I'm impressed. Definitely a step up from the SP1 sounds. The SV-1 73 is so tempting...


Zachary, you're getting my disease! It's a very slippery slope... wink