Any info re: the new Kawai CE220?

Posted by: Fun2Learn

Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 06:16 PM

I can't seem to find any information about the new Kawi CE220 that Kawai James told us (in the NAMM announcements post)is being inroduced at the NAMM show. I tried the Kawai site and googled, but no luck--google keeps asking me, "did you mean Kawai CE200?", LOL). Does anyone have any links for more info?

I am curious if anything else has changed from the CE200 besides the sound generation system.(James--any idea when it will be available in the U.S. and if the price will be similar to that of the CE200? How does it compare with the MP 6 for action and sound (I know the MP6 probably has a lot more features.)
We had been looking for a digital piano for my daughter's Christmas present, but decided to wait until we saw what was announced at the NAMM show (since, I figured, like computers, the technology keeps improving while the prices keep going down, and we couldn't see exactly what we wanted in our price range anyway!)

Thanks so much.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 06:24 PM

I don't have any inside info, but I'm sure it will use the RM3 action instead of AWA PRO II. It could hardly be otherwise.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 08:46 PM

Fun2Learn, as mentioned in the NAMM thread, the main upgrade to the CE220 is the improved 'PHI' sound, with 88-key sampling. The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220, however the updated model adds 'USB to Device' functionality, allowing SMF (.MID) playback and recorded songs to be loaded/saved to USB memory.

The table below lists the main changes.



I have also uploaded the CE220 owner's manual to the Kawai Japan website:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/manuals.html

The MP6 is undoubtedly the more flexible instrument in terms of features, however the CE220's wooden-key keyboard action is arguably superior.

I'm afraid I do not have any details regarding pricing and availability, however I expect Kawai America will make this information available shortly.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220


Really? Trying to get rid of old stock of AWA PRO II, perhaps? I don't see any other Kawai pianos using that action. Certainly I didn't expect it in an update.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 08:55 PM

True, it may not be the latest and greatest, however I believe 'AWA Grand Pro II' is still a very, very good keyboard action.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/19/12 08:57 PM

It is at that. Thanks for the correction, James.
Posted by: Fun2Learn

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/20/12 02:31 PM

Thanks James! That chart was most helpful. One online seller I had talked with back in Dec. had offered me a great price on the CE200, and highly recommended its wood key action. I was concerned about buying a DP with the older sound system, like the CE200, though. So maybe the CE220 will be a good compromise for us--it doesn't have all the voices of the MP6, but all the rhythms will be fun for what my daughter is looking for--and the usb connections would be helpful down the line. She much prefers the look of a console over the stage piano, too. (If you remember some of my posts from back in Dec!) It sounds like you might actually prefer the AWA PRO II action to that of the MP6's RH action, or am I misunderstanding you?

Is the RH action of the MP6 any different at all than the RH action of the CN models? I was wondering if the stage piano had perhaps a shorter length key or some other feature that made it slightly different? I am wondering because my daughter tried both a CN33 and then the MP6 (each on different days) and she thought she didn't like the aciton of the MP 6 as much as she remembered liking the CN33--though other factors may have contributed to her experience(she might have been more tired when she was playing the MP6, the stand wasn't as firm, etc.)
She said that the keys of the MP6 felt more slippery--which is funny because the MP6 has the ivory feel, which the CN33 doesn't.
We will have to go see if we can find a dealer with a CE200 on the floor to test the action and see if the CE220 will be worth waiting for. Thanks again.
(and thanks, GVFarns also for your input!)
Posted by: vegasE

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/20/12 03:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
True, it may not be the latest and greatest, however I believe 'AWA Grand Pro II' is still a very, very good keyboard action.

Cheers,
James
x


It is.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/20/12 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
It sounds like you might actually prefer the AWA PRO II action to that of the MP6's RH action, or am I misunderstanding you?


Yes, in terms of feeling/response, I would suggest that AWA Grand Pro II is superior to RH. However, I would add that - for a plastic key action - RH is very good.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
Is the RH action of the MP6 any different at all than the RH action of the CN models?


No, it's exactly the same - the CN33/CN43 keyboard action is identical to the MP6 keyboard action: RH with Ivory Touch key surfaces and let-off simulation.

Originally Posted By: Fun2Learn
She said that the keys of the MP6 felt more slippery--which is funny because the MP6 has the ivory feel, which the CN33 doesn't.


Actually, both instruments feature Ivory Touch key surfaces. Differences in feel between two instruments with the same keyboard action may be attributed to the cabinet material (wood vs metal) and form (console vs portable on stand) etc.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/20/12 06:21 PM

AWA PRO II is indeed better than RH, I think. In fact I feel comfortable saying that's a consensus. For those that like Kawai actions, which is a lot of people, it's the second best option after RM3. And the two wood actions are not so very different.
Posted by: Fun2Learn

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 12:42 PM

Quote:
AWA PRO II is indeed better than RH, I think

Thanks, everyone. I am glad to hear that Kawai has put their 2nd best action in a dp I can afford--though too bad the CE220 doesn't have quite as many of the "digital" extras as some of the others in that price range. I don't understand why the CE220/200 is now the only model that has that "2nd to the top" action then? Why couldn't they just as easily put it into all the lower tier home pianos, if they can put it into an entry level one like the CE220?

The whole "home DP" market seems to be crazy mixed up with such a confusing array of selections of DP's with varying components and features that don't seem to make any sense to me as a consumer. It would seem to make more sense, from an "economy of scale" perspective, for a DP manufacturer to limit the variety of internal actions/sound/features used in its models to maybe just two (better and best--forget the bottom lines))and just vary the externals (stage piano, vs. console, compact home piano, etc.) Wouldn't that allow them to keep the prices more competitive, while offering the consumer a better value?

For instance, I don't understand why the lower end models don't all include a large variety of instrument sounds, several recording tracks, some drum rythms and usb ports? How much more could that possibly add to the cost if they added it on to all models, given the state of technology in this day and age?


I am just venting a little here, because we can't seem to find a DP that has all the features we want with out paying close to $3000 (for a home dp or by the time we would add a wood stand and speakers to a stage piano). Maybe we are in niche market that hasn't been addressed yet by a quality DP manufacturer: consumers who want a quality DP as a second piano for home use. (DP manufacturers take NOTE!) That means we want lots of digital-only type features (or why else get a digitial when you already have an acoustic?), a sturdy, reasonably attractive stand, built-in speakers, and good action and sound. AND we don't want to have to pay for a furniture cabinet that looks just like the acoustic sitting in the living room.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 12:58 PM

I feel you on this.

Also frustrating, no one makes a speaker set that is optimal for a digital piano in a home environment. There are studio monitors and there is Hi Fi (with the receiver and stuff) and then there are public performance speakers. Nothing right for the niche.
Posted by: Stephen Lacefield

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 06:44 PM

I am at the NAMM show and played the CE220. Even though Kawai claims it has 88-key Piano Sampling, it sounds very much like the old Harmonic Imaging sample.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 08:16 PM

The old harmonic imaging sample had 88 key sampling. At least the one in my MP8 did. Did you mean to say that it is purported to have progressive harmonic imaging, but it still sounds like the original harmonic imaging?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Stephen Lacefield
I am at the NAMM show and played the CE220. Even though Kawai claims it has 88-key Piano Sampling, it sounds very much like the old Harmonic Imaging sample.


That's an interesting observation Stephen.

However, if you were to play an older instrument with the previous generation sound technology, I'm confident you would be able to hear the difference in quality.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 08:36 PM

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
The old harmonic imaging sample had 88 key sampling. At least the one in my MP8 did.


88-key piano sampling was introduced with the ES6. Since this time, all new Kawai DPs* have featured 88-key sampling as standard. Prior to this time, however, no Kawai DPs featured the sound technology.

* except re-badged models: EP3 & KDP80.

Kind regards,
James
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Posted by: ZoeCalgary

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/21/12 11:44 PM

Fun2learn, I totally agree with you on this lack of digital features on dp's with a good action. Today I went shopping and came back empty handed! I am so frustrated! One place told me $2600 plus 5% tax for the MP6! Unbelievable! It sells for less than $1500 in the US and the CDN dollar is almost at par. Then I thought I can be satisfied with the CN23 and another dealer refused to honor his price that I had seen a couple of months ago even though he had this in stock! I came away from both of these dealers feeling so upset with this piano buying business!! One was listening and
Price jacking and the other wasn't even listening to me at
All!! It's almost like they don't want anybody to buy their stuff!

I want a good digital at a good price point! I don't want to feel like I'm being taken for all I'm worth and then some! Sure make a profit but 100% increase in price from the US is crazy!

I can tell you this. Neither of these dealers are likely to see me again!
Posted by: Csillag

Availability - 01/23/12 07:48 AM

Dear James,

Any info about the availability of this new DP in Europe?

(I am asking this, because as far as I know, the CE200 was an US-only model.)

About the price: how does this model relate to CA13? (I am not asking about the features, but price only.)

Thank you for explaining:

Kristof
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 01/23/12 08:03 AM

Hello Kristof,

Originally Posted By: Csillag
Any info about the availability of this new DP in Europe?


Not that I'm aware of - I think it's rather unlikely given the popularity of the CA13.

Originally Posted By: Csillag
About the price: how does this model relate to CA13?


- CE200: $1700 (Musician's Friend)
- CA13: €1555 (Thomann)

Kind regards.
James
x
Posted by: gnembon

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Fun2learn, I totally agree with you on this lack of digital features on dp's with a good action. Today I went shopping and came back empty handed! I am so frustrated! One place told me $2600 plus 5% tax for the MP6! Unbelievable! It sells for less than $1500 in the US and the CDN dollar is almost at par. Then I thought I can be satisfied with the CN23 and another dealer refused to honor his price that I had seen a couple of months ago even though he had this in stock! I came away from both of these dealers feeling so upset with this piano buying business!! One was listening and
Price jacking and the other wasn't even listening to me at
All!! It's almost like they don't want anybody to buy their stuff!

I want a good digital at a good price point! I don't want to feel like I'm being taken for all I'm worth and then some! Sure make a profit but 100% increase in price from the US is crazy!

I can tell you this. Neither of these dealers are likely to see me again!


Contact some bigger dealers. In a small local dealer, I got a quote for $4800 (sic) for MP10 while Merriam Music from Toronto was willing to sell it for me for 2800+120 shipping. At the end - I decided to go to the states and get it myself for 2500.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 08:23 AM

Originally Posted By: gnembon
In a small local dealer, I got a quote for $4800 (sic)...


You're kidding, right?
Posted by: ZoeCalgary

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 10:12 AM

Sorry to the OP and don't mean to hijack their thread but yes I believe $4800 was quoted! Given I got quoted $2600 for the mp6. I just don't know what to do. I really like the Kawai Dp's but I'd like to pay a fair price!!

KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings? It's like the prices are whatever the dealer feels like, then when I actually want to buy they raise the price again!

Again sorry to the original poster but my frustration is at an all time high!!
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
The keyboard action and most of the other specifications remain unchanged from the CE220


Really? Trying to get rid of old stock of AWA PRO II, perhaps?


If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof
Posted by: gnembon

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 01:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Sorry to the OP and don't mean to hijack their thread but yes I believe $4800 was quoted! Given I got quoted $2600 for the mp6. I just don't know what to do. I really like the Kawai Dp's but I'd like to pay a fair price!!

KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings? It's like the prices are whatever the dealer feels like, then when I actually want to buy they raise the price again!

Again sorry to the original poster but my frustration is at an all time high!!

Calm down :-) . As I told, try in different places. I know that at least Merriam is willing to ship and sell for 'normal' prices. And it is local, local I mean, Toronto, and I am from Nova Scotia.
Posted by: ZoeCalgary

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 01:36 PM

Yes I am frustrated it's true. I will check Merriam. It never occurred to me to check Canadian online retailers. (well actually I checked the ones I am aware of just didn't know about the one you mentioned. I am excited there might be hope for an mo6 in my future yet! Thanks fir the tip!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
KawaiJames my husband suggested I contact Kawai directly to let them know what is happening. I don't think this would help any nor who to contact. Is there somebody to contact to talk about shady dealings?


There are email addresses to relevant departments on the Kawai America website.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Csillag
If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof


That's an interesting suggestion.
Posted by: Fun2Learn

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 05:30 PM

This is a very interesting discussion--(don't worry about "hijacking" it--I don't mind!)I just wanted to share that AZpianowholesale.com had offered me a great price on both the MP6 and the CE200 back in DEcember (then we decided to wait until the NAMM show to see what new DP's were going to come out.)His price, including shipping and no tax, was the lowest I found anywhere, but you have to call or email--he isn't allowed to advertise prices lower than Kawai's "lowest advertised price" for each model. By the way, he has posted quite a few sound/song samples of the MP6 on his review blog. Has anyone ever bought anything from him before? Just curiuos.
Posted by: Fun2Learn

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/23/12 05:30 PM

This is a very interesting discussion--(don't worry about "hijacking" it--I don't mind!)I just wanted to share that AZpianowholesale.com had offered me a great price on both the MP6 and the CE200 back in DEcember (then we decided to wait until the NAMM show to see what new DP's were going to come out.)His price, including shipping and no tax, was the lowest I found anywhere, but you have to call or email--he isn't allowed to advertise prices lower than Kawai's "lowest advertised price" for each model. By the way, he has posted quite a few sound/song samples of the MP6 on his review blog. Has anyone ever bought anything from him before? Just curiuos.
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/24/12 05:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Csillag
If that is the case, then I have a better idea about how to solve this "problem":

why not just dump them into cheap midi controllers?

You don't even need to spend that much time (or money) on the design; just remove (most of) the internal electronics of the MP8II - and release the rest around 1000 - 1200 EUR.

That would be an instant win.

(OK, I must stop dreaming now.)

Kristof


That's an interesting suggestion.


By the way, if it's not a closely guarded secret, could you please give us some insight about how Kawai makes it's decision about product development? Are you doing marketing research to test new ideas?

Would it help if you someone quickly collected hundreds of subscriptions encouraging Kawai to produce a AWA-PRO-II / RM3 based midi controller?

Thank you:

Kristof
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/24/12 06:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Csillag
By the way, if it's not a closely guarded secret, could you please give us some insight about how Kawai makes it's decision about product development? Are you doing marketing research to test new ideas?


I'm very keen for Kawai to be more open and transparent about various aspects of the company (including the research and development of its instruments), and I certainly appreciate the interest from yourself and other PW regulars about future Kawai instruments. However, I'm afraid I don't believe it would be terribly appropriate to discuss this topic on a public forum - I hope you can understand that.

Originally Posted By: Csillag
Would it help if you someone quickly collected hundreds of subscriptions encouraging Kawai to produce a AWA-PRO-II / RM3 based midi controller?


It would be interesting, yes. However, I would encourage you to spend your time on other pursuits, such as playing your new CN23. wink

I believe a successful company is one that listens closely to its consumers. However, for one reason or another, it's not always possible to deliver exactly what folks are looking for all the time.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/24/12 06:52 AM

I'm very keen for Kawai to be more open and transparent about various aspects of the company (including the research and development of its instruments), and I certainly appreciate the interest from yourself and other PW regulars about future Kawai instruments. However, I'm afraid I don't believe it would be terribly appropriate to discuss this topic on a public forum - I hope you can understand that.

Yep, that makes perfect sense. smile
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/24/12 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
However, I would encourage you to spend your time on other pursuits, such as playing your new CN23. wink


Don't worry, James, I try to find the time play it smile
(I plan to post some recordings soon.)

However

a) that's something I can't do while I am at work (unlike stalking PW forums), and

b) I have already arranged an update (CN-23 -> CN-33) with my local dealer back in November, but they still could not ship it - that's why I am still keeping an eye on new Kawai products. (Who knows, I might find something I like better.)

Best wishes:

Kristof
Posted by: rob1261

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/28/12 07:26 PM

There is a good review of the new Kawai CE220 here:

http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2012/01/review-kawai-ce220-digital-piano.html
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/29/12 02:32 AM

It's a pity the review does not even mention the CA series (especially the CA-13), which seems to be a closest competitor to this model.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/29/12 05:55 AM

Probably because the CA13 is not sold in the US.

James
x
Posted by: Qbert

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/29/12 06:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Csillag
Would it help if you someone quickly collected hundreds of subscriptions encouraging Kawai to produce a AWA-PRO-II / RM3 based midi controller?


It would be interesting, yes.


+1 thumb

Please, take into account:
let-off
ivory feel (why in CE220 is missing?)
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/29/12 07:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Qbert
Please, take into account:
let-off
ivory feel (why in CE220 is missing?)


Qbert, the CE220 uses the older AWA Grand Pro II action, which does not feature let-off simulation or Ivory Feel keys surfaces.

James
x
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Any info re: the new Kawai CE220? - 01/29/12 08:25 AM

Originally Posted By: rob1261
There is a good review of the new Kawai CE220 here:

http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2012/01/review-kawai-ce220-digital-piano.html


Although this part sounds far-fetched to me:

Quote:

[...] the popular Kawai CN23 digital piano ($1799 internet price) will get stiff competition from this new CE220 for only $100 more.


1. $1800 for the CN23? Where did he get those figures? Should not it be a few hundred lower?

(But OTOH, I am working from the European prices, so my guess might be totally wrong.)

2. "competition" between CN23 and CE220? There is no competition; the CE220 is in a completely different category...

Kristof
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Availability - 01/29/12 08:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Csillag
About the price: how does this model relate to CA13?


- CE200: $1700 (Musician's Friend)
- CA13: €1555 (Thomann)


So, bringing it to common currency:
  • Lowest entry point for Kawai wooden action in the USA: CE200, 1699 USD
  • Lowest entry point for Kawai wooden action in western Europe: CA13, 2034 USD (converted from 1555 EUR, Thomann's current price)
  • Lowest entry point for Kawai wooden action in Hungary (Central Europe): CA13, 2404 USD (converted from 539 000 HUF, today's price from Hungary's one and only Kawai dealer.)

The bottom line is, to get a Kawai wooden action, Europeans need to pay 20% more than their American peers - and if you are from Central/Eastern Europe, then the number is even higher, about 40%.

Can anybody offer a rational explanation for this?

Thank you for your help:

Kristof
Posted by: ONfrank

Re: Availability - 01/29/12 08:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Csillag
The bottom line is, to get a Kawai wooden action, Europeans need to pay 20% more than their American peers - and if you are from Central/Eastern Europe, then the number is even higher, about 40%.

Can anybody offer a rational explanation for this?

Thank you for your help:

Kristof


The listed European prices include up to 20% VAT.
Posted by: Csillag

Re: Availability - 01/29/12 08:44 AM

Originally Posted By: ONfrank
The listed European prices include up to 20% VAT.

Actually, the level of VAT is not the same across the EU; it's changing between 15% and 27%.
(But yes, that explains almost all the difference ... not that it makes it all that easier to swallow it.)

Kristof
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 01/29/12 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Csillag
The bottom line is, to get a Kawai wooden action, Europeans need to pay 20% more than their American peers - and if you are from Central/Eastern Europe, then the number is even higher, about 40%.


- European women are 20% more beautiful than American women.
- Central/Eastern European women are 20% even more beautiful again.

James
x
Posted by: NatFL

Re: Availability - 02/18/12 10:26 PM

Is the CE220 a comparable alternative to the CN33? I've had my eye on the CN33 but the CE220 is getting rave reviews, and at a $400 lower cost. The biggest difference I can see between the two is:

- AWA ProII action (CE220) vs. RH with letoff (CN33)
- 22 sounds (CE220) vs. 36 sounds (CN33)
- satin black cabinet finish (CE 220) vs. multiple finishes (CN33)
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 02:10 AM

NatFL, yes, the CE220 and CN33 are quite similar. I definitely prefer the cabinet design of the CN33 over the CE220, however in terms of specifications, the wooden key action is arguably the winner.

Cheers,
James
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Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 02:24 AM

I think I'd probably go with the CE, even if they were the same price.
Posted by: fnx

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 02:32 AM

A couple more things:
[*]192 (CE220) vs. 92 notes of polyphony (CN33)
[*]CN33 has Concert Magic (88 Songs) & built-in Alfred lessons
Posted by: NatFL

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 08:43 AM

Thank you everyone! I see positive points to both instruments. Unfortunately my budget is low enough that anytime I think of buying the CN33, I freak out and tell myself, "You cannot afford a $2000+ instrument!"
Posted by: shgmd

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 09:42 AM

I haven't been able to find a store with a CE220 to try out yet. My local Kawai store in Long Island (Frank and Camille's) still has the CE200 and isn't sure when they will be getting the CE220 in stock. Since my old Clavinova 300 is turning 25 years old this year, I had wanted to get a new digital piano. I had liked the keyboard action on the CE200 but wasn't impressed with the sound. I had been leaning towards the Yamaha YDP-181, which has decent key action and a good sound (and in my under $2,000 price range), but I really want to wait to try out the CE220. Hopefully they'll be in stores soon. Does anyone know if they will only be in Kawai piano stores? My local Sam Ash used to stock the CE200, but they don't have either the CE200 or the CE220 at this point. Thanks.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 10:07 AM

shgmd, if your local Sam Ash stocked the CE200, they should stock the CE220 too...once the back orders are cleared.

Cheers,
James
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Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 11:48 AM

The 220 has the second generation harmonic imaging, which is a pretty significant step up from the original version. I mean, it's the same basic sound, but better. You might like it better.

The YDP 181 (or 161) is a pretty decent piano too, though.
Posted by: shgmd

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 02:56 PM

Thanks, Kawai James and gvfarns. I believe that either the YPD-181 or CE220 will be significant steps up from the original Clavinova that I have used all these years - both in the actions and in the sounds smile!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
The 220 has the second generation harmonic imaging, which is a pretty significant step up from the original version. I mean, it's the same basic sound, but better. You might like it better.


Actually, the main piano sound(s) are different - the CE220 utilises 88-key sampling, and therefore draws upon audio data from a more modern recording session.

A brief history of Kawai's (recent) piano sound:

- Harmonic Imaging
- Harmonic Imaging (HI), 88-key sampling *
- Progressive Harmonic Imaging (PHI), 88-key sampling *
- Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging (UPHI), 88-key sampling *

* = utilise audio data from same recording session

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 05:26 PM

Interesting. What I meant is that it has the same basic character (i.e., a Kawai EX piano in the anechoic chamber and the sonic signature of harmonic imaging). Just a newer, improved version (apparently of both the recording session and the technology).

Thanks for giving us the information about the recording sessions. Interesting indeed!
Posted by: NatFL

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
NatFL, yes, the CE220 and CN33 are quite similar. I definitely prefer the cabinet design of the CN33 over the CE220, however in terms of specifications, the wooden key action is arguably the winner.

Cheers,
James
x


Okay, I've looked at detailed pictures of both and I can't really see a difference between the two cabinet designs. The display area looks a little more bulky to me on the CE220. Is this what you mean? P.S. Thanks for all the information you've shared about both models!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Availability - 02/19/12 08:25 PM

NatFL, it's just my subjective, personal opinion, however I feel that the CN33 cabinet design is more elegant than the CE220.

CN33:


CE220:

(image from Kawai America website)

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: fnx

Re: Availability - 02/23/12 02:00 AM

I've ordered a CE220 at the beginning of the month. I was expecting it this week, but I've heard back from my dealer that it will be delay a couple more weeks. Given the delay I am offered the chance to cancel the order.

Meanwhile I found on craigslist an used MP10 for $1500. MP10 is certainly going to be improvement, all I need is to get a stand and some speakers. Any suggestions on what speakers would go with it?

I do have a home theater amp connected to a pair of B&W Matrix 8.1, perhaps I could just hook them up.
Posted by: NatFL

Re: Availability - 03/07/12 09:18 PM

Has anyone picked up a CE220 yet? I'm anxious to see some pictures of it and read reviews. I'm seriously considering this model. After getting reacquainted with piano during a visit to my family's place this weekend, I am *itching* to finally make my DP purchase! :-)
Posted by: shgmd

Re: Availability - 03/09/12 01:42 PM

I am also very anxiously waiting for the CE220 to be available to try it out. I had previously tried out the CE200 and liked the action, but wasn't too impressed with the sound. As I am looking in the $1500-$2000 max. range, I have also included on my "short" list the Yamaha YDP-181 and the Roland RP-301. When I recently tried out the latter, I was actually surprised by how much I liked the "ivory-feel" touch and the piano sounds. As a classically-trained pianist, I am most interested in good piano action and sound, not needing other bells and whistles.
My local Kawai dealer wasn't quite sure how soon the CE-220 was going to be coming in, and at my local Sam Ash store, which had previously stocked the CE200, the salesperson I had spoken with had not even heard about the CE220. Hope it's here soon!
Posted by: shgmd

Re: Availability - 03/12/12 10:16 PM

My local Kawai salesperson (Frank and Camille's of Long Island, NY) called me today to tell me that she doesn't expect to get the CE220 in store until April or May.
Posted by: NatFL

Re: Availability - 03/13/12 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: shgmd
My local Kawai salesperson (Frank and Camille's of Long Island, NY) called me today to tell me that she doesn't expect to get the CE220 in store until April or May.


Wow, that's discouraging. frown I was hoping to sample one soon. I'm going to visit my local Kawai dealer today. Hopefully they'll be getting one sooner than that.
Posted by: shgmd

Re: Availability - 03/13/12 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: NatFL

Wow, that's discouraging. frown I was hoping to sample one soon. I'm going to visit my local Kawai dealer today. Hopefully they'll be getting one sooner than that.


Hopefully you'll get better news, or perhaps even get to try it out! If you do, I'd be very glad to hear your impressions. Good luck!