Roland V-Piano

Posted by: Bech

Roland V-Piano - 05/04/12 01:01 PM

Have there been any improvements to the Roland V-Piano in recent months. Can it still be bought for under 6,000?

Is there a model in the works that will surpass it?

And...wondering about a good source for a used one.

Don
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/04/12 11:17 PM

1) No current improvements that I know of, and, there is still the issue of the ivory top keys that will scratch. I own one now and have had a full key bed replacement and it remains to be seen if the new keys will hold up. A quick scratch test on a high "A" key seems to indicate that there will be more wear on them, unfortunately. Only see a few online stores that are offering the V for $6,000, although I would be reluctant to take the free ground shipping as the piano box can be damaged due to its weight. Freight delivery, with all of the boxes on a pallet, is safer.

2) ?

3) From time to time you will find used V's, as there are several in the offering here, priced from lowest to highest:

A) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VPiano-88...33#ht_500wt_898

B) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Piano-V...6#ht_2734wt_915

C) http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLAND-V-PIANO-W...8#ht_3002wt_954

D) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Piano-T...d#ht_1089wt_792

Better check with the sellers directly to see if the "used" models have scratched and dirty looking keys first, as this usually happens after it has been played on for a while.

Other than the above, be prepared to pay around $7,000 to buy it brand new, elsewhere.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/04/12 11:23 PM

pv88, would you perhaps consider selling Bech your V-Piano?
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/04/12 11:31 PM

James,

Sorry, as it's not for sale, since it's about the best you're gonna find for an acoustic-like simulation, although the keys aren't up to the task.

Fix the ivory key top material, then I might be less negative.

As you know, no luck with the first replacement.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: pv88
1) No current improvements that I know of, and, there is still the issue of the ivory top keys that will scratch. I own one now and have had a full key bed replacement and it remains to be seen if the new keys will hold up. A quick scratch test on a high "A" key seems to indicate that there will be more wear on them, unfortunately. Only see a few online stores that are offering the V for $6,000, although I don't know if they are reliable as the piano will ship for free with UPS ground shipping and you risk damage to the piano. Here is one store, at the lower price:

http://www.instrumentalsavings.com/Roland-V-PianoC-Stage-Piano-p/roland-v-pianoc.htm

2) ?

3) From time to time you will find used V's here, and, right now there are several in the offering, priced from lowest to highest:

A) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-VPiano-88...33#ht_500wt_898

B) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Piano-V...6#ht_2734wt_915

C) http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROLAND-V-PIANO-W...8#ht_3002wt_954

D) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-V-Piano-T...d#ht_1089wt_792

Better check with the sellers directly to see if the "used" models have dinged up and dirty looking keys first, as this usually happens after it has been played on for a while.

Other than the above, be prepared to pay around $7,000 to buy it brand new, elsewhere.


Just a fair warning to anyone thinking of buying a V-piano off of e-bay. Take PV88's number A link and simply read the description.

"Bought this VPiano from Sweetwater Sound (brand new) less than 2 years ago for $8,000. I am 98 years old and cannot play any longer. It is in perfect condition, as it has never been moved and has barely been used."



I don't know if I'd believe that this guy was a 98 year old who paid $8,000 etc and is willing to sell it for half in two years. Buyer beware..

I would definitely purchase the V-piano from a reputable source as it is a purchase you want to have the manufacturers warranty with.

I have not had any issue with my ivory keytop and I play it daily. I do cut my nails short enough not to cause the flaking that PV88 has described causing with his nails. If you play piano and your finger nails hit the keys, I would be weary of any ROland Ivory keytops as all seem to not like fingernail hits or scratches.
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 10:45 AM

V-Piano has not changed since the time it was released.

The price went up over time and is not going down.

I bought mine about 3 months ago for $6799. It is also sold new for $5999 without stand.


I cannot say enough good things about V-Piano. It's a must have for me, one instrument of a kind that I am honored to play.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 02:59 PM

Originally Posted By: alekkh
V-Piano has not changed since the time it was released.




The V-Piano did get the Evolution upgrades in its 2nd year, which are installed in all V-Pianos made after those upgrades became available. Users of the first versions (which had 24 presets only) without the upgrades can install them themselves from the website. (I wasn't able to, so Roland did it for me....).

Presumably, more upgrades will become available in the future. After all, the V-Piano Grand has two extra settings which aren't on the V-Piano, but according to Roland, they are specially designed for the Grand.

Maybe they will be available for V-Piano users in due course (presumably after undergoing a slight nomenclature modification.... grin).
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: bennevis

Presumably, more upgrades will become available in the future.


You're not planning to hold your breath, are you?
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 04:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: bennevis

Presumably, more upgrades will become available in the future.


You're not planning to hold your breath, are you?


I'm currently training for the World Freediving Championship.... grin
4 minutes and counting....
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano

"Bought this VPiano from Sweetwater Sound (brand new) less than 2 years ago for $8,000. I am 98 years old and cannot play any longer. It is in perfect condition, as it has never been moved and has barely been used."


Wondering as to why this person above spent $8,000 on a V, when the current highest price at Sweetwater is only $6,999?

Perhaps they meant the original list price was $7,999, instead?

Otherwise, he/she paid $1,000 more for the purchase.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/05/12 05:43 PM

I suppose either, (a) due to taxes and shipping being added to the retail price, or (b) taking advantage of a 98 year-old. (Although I do know a few sharp 98-year-olds . . . )
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 11:43 AM

Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano

"Bought this VPiano from Sweetwater Sound (brand new) less than 2 years ago for $8,000. I am 98 years old and cannot play any longer. It is in perfect condition, as it has never been moved and has barely been used."


Wondering as to why this person above spent $8,000 on a V, when the current highest price at Sweetwater is only $6,999?

Perhaps they meant the original list price was $7,999, instead?

Otherwise, he/she paid $1,000 more for the purchase.


In some cases they sell bundles with very good monitors etc that run about 8K. So, theoretically it's possible. Plus, when I shopped for V-Piano, shipping was not free even in some respected stores.
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: alekkh
V-Piano has not changed since the time it was released.




The V-Piano did get the Evolution upgrades in its 2nd year, which are installed in all V-Pianos made after those upgrades became available. Users of the first versions (which had 24 presets only) without the upgrades can install them themselves from the website. (I wasn't able to, so Roland did it for me....).

Presumably, more upgrades will become available in the future. After all, the V-Piano Grand has two extra settings which aren't on the V-Piano, but according to Roland, they are specially designed for the Grand.

Maybe they will be available for V-Piano users in due course (presumably after undergoing a slight nomenclature modification.... grin).



I happen to call something "an upgrade" when something useful actually happens.

V-Piano's upgrade was marketing. Nothing to do with the musical aspect of V-Piano.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 01:18 PM

To me, Roland raising the price of the vpiano without improving anything about it is a signal they aren't going anywhere with it..

Bech, i don't know how old you are, but i will give you an analogy. If you desperately regret not having bought a Delorean when they were on the market back in the 80's, then buy the vpiano. Cool at the time, and interesting now as a vintage collectible, delorean never gained critical mass in the marketplace. Sadly, the vpiano seems to be running the same course. Roland seems to have developed it, threw it out there, didn't know what to do with it, so they just decided to raise the price, build them more or less to order, and see what happens. that is not the proper evolution of a technology product. And i know i speak heresy here, but digital pianos are technological representations/facsimiles of a musical instrument, in my mind they are NOT a musical instrument. A convenient means to an end, and a fascinating application of microprocessor technology. I am fascinated with them, but only if they continually get better. The Vpiano actually did that, but this far into its life cycle, we should be hearing more about where it is heading- it is FAR from perfect.

I'd just be careful of how much you are willing to spend on digital technology that seems to be filling a small niche within a small niche. You can get left alone pretty quickly.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 01:40 PM

The danger is that the V-Piano will go the way of the RD-1000 and derivatives. SA synthesis was relegated to a dusty shelf in the '90s and was only taken down and dusted off for the V. If that technology is not to spawn a genuine advance in mass-market DP technology, it's a crying shame. Roland, please don't just shove it back on the shelf for the next twenty years: develop it, put it in $2,000 products (as we were all expecting a few years back). It's too remarkable a technology to be hidden away in a few studios and millionaires' living rooms.
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: alekkh


I happen to call something "an upgrade" when something useful actually happens.

V-Piano's upgrade was marketing. Nothing to do with the musical aspect of V-Piano.


That's not true. The upgrade did offer improvement, just not enough for a V-Piano owner like myself.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/06/12 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: alekkh


I happen to call something "an upgrade" when something useful actually happens.

V-Piano's upgrade was marketing. Nothing to do with the musical aspect of V-Piano.


That's not true. The upgrade did offer improvement, just not enough for a V-Piano owner like myself.


i'd beg to differ on that one. all they did was pre-package some tweaks to the parameters into 4 settings. Bennevis has done far more for the advancement of the vpiano than Roland has.
Posted by: Bech

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/07/12 12:11 AM

Thanks to all of you for your input. I'd hate to buy a V-Piano and a year or two later Roland or another manufacturer comes-out with something definitely superior in the same price range.

What I really need to do is get of my duff and into a showroom that has high quality acoustics and the V-Piano and try'em out, side by side. I think there's a good chance I then would not want anything other than an acoustic. Sounds have "nuances" and I think I would hear them.

Problem is as long as I'm in an apartment an acoustic won't do but I may soon be buying a house.

Bech
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/07/12 04:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Bech
Thanks to all of you for your input. I'd hate to buy a V-Piano and a year or two later Roland or another manufacturer comes-out with something definitely superior in the same price range.

Bech


Although roland has done this before in this case I wouldn't worry much.
V-piano is currently best piano simulation on the market so drastic changes
Are unlikely unless yamaha will come up with a modeled avantgrand version.
Anyway i think for a year or two you are safe cool
Posted by: 36251

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/07/12 06:44 AM

Originally Posted By: offnote
Originally Posted By: Bech
Thanks to all of you for your input. I'd hate to buy a V-Piano and a year or two later Roland or another manufacturer comes-out with something definitely superior in the same price range.

Bech


Although roland has done this before in this case I wouldn't worry much.
V-piano is currently best piano simulation on the market so drastic changes
Are unlikely unless yamaha will come up with a modeled avantgrand version.
Anyway i think for a year or two you are safe cool
The punch is tasting good in this thread. It takes awhile after swallowing.
Posted by: Rich Galassini

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/07/12 08:40 AM

Originally Posted By: pv88
Wondering as to why this person above spent $8,000 on a V, when the current highest price at Sweetwater is only $6,999?

Perhaps they meant the original list price was $7,999, instead?

Otherwise, he/she paid $1,000 more for the purchase.


pv88,

If this is true (which I do not think it is) then there would still be no reason for it to effect your decision on buying a V-Piano.

We offer special V-piano packages that include a speaker system, stand, bench, etc. and have rarely had a customer buy elsewhere over price. Just a thought.

Good Luck,
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/07/12 11:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Bech
Thanks to all of you for your input. I'd hate to buy a V-Piano and a year or two later Roland or another manufacturer comes-out with something definitely superior in the same price range.

What I really need to do is get of my duff and into a showroom that has high quality acoustics and the V-Piano and try'em out, side by side. I think there's a good chance I then would not want anything other than an acoustic. Sounds have "nuances" and I think I would hear them.

Problem is as long as I'm in an apartment an acoustic won't do but I may soon be buying a house.

Bech


If year or two later there's a better alternative to V-Piano, great.

But there may be none.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/08/12 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: Bech
Thanks to all of you for your input. I'd hate to buy a V-Piano and a year or two later Roland or another manufacturer comes-out with something definitely superior in the same price range.

What I really need to do is get of my duff and into a showroom that has high quality acoustics and the V-Piano and try'em out, side by side. I think there's a good chance I then would not want anything other than an acoustic. Sounds have "nuances" and I think I would hear them.

Problem is as long as I'm in an apartment an acoustic won't do but I may soon be buying a house.

Bech


If year or two later there's a better alternative to V-Piano, great.

But there may be none.


my sentiments too. The platform is set up to upgrade fairly easily- mainly just software downloads from roland. but there hasn't been a software update in 2 years. that is what amazes me. just do something, anything that makes users believe you are nurturing the concept/technology. The hardware is fine- obviously a lighter, more portable version would be interesting in the future, but sell the marketplace on the constant refinement of the software first and then innovate the physical instrument.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/13/12 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: alekkh


I happen to call something "an upgrade" when something useful actually happens.

V-Piano's upgrade was marketing. Nothing to do with the musical aspect of V-Piano.


That's not true. The upgrade did offer improvement, just not enough for a V-Piano owner like myself.


i'd beg to differ on that one. all they did was pre-package some tweaks to the parameters into 4 settings. Bennevis has done far more for the advancement of the vpiano than Roland has.


I concur and 100% agree with this point. Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.
Posted by: Karnevil

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 04:44 AM

When you really think about it, there have been very little development in digital emulations of various synths and keyboards these last 10+ years. V-Piano is certainly an exception, but even V-Piano is getting a bit long in the tooth now. As far as analog synth and keyboard emulations the industry is pretty much at a stand still. Creamware made some very good (still digital sounding though) synth emulations 10+ years ago, and those are still the best on the market IMO. The newest hammond organ clones still sound thinner than the real thing, and digital overdrive is still very nasty and/or flat sounding on higher settings (Nord C1/C2 for instance).
Hmm, you would think with the development of DSP and CPU chips that sound quality would conitinue to improve, obviously not...

I mean listen to progrock and fusion jazz albums for the 70s. I sooo much more prefer that sound to todays fake, digital sounds. V-Piano is a very good digital simulation, but it's still a weak in certain areas - as all other digital emulations today are. Nothing can beat the sound of a real piano, hammond organ, modular synth etc..
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 05:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Karnevil

I mean listen to progrock and fusion jazz albums for the 70s. I sooo much more prefer that sound todays fake digital sounds..


thumb
It'sad but music sounded better in seventies indeed.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 06:23 AM

Originally Posted By: offnote
It'sad but music sounded better in seventies indeed.


Yes. The analogue art form reached full maturity in the 70s. A well recorded piece of music from the 70s cannot be equalled for sonic clarity, warmth or dynamics - the three could go hand-in-hand back then.
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 07:09 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: offnote
It'sad but music sounded better in seventies indeed.


Yes. The analogue art form reached full maturity in the 70s. A well recorded piece of music from the 70s cannot be equalled for sonic clarity, warmth or dynamics - the three could go hand-in-hand back then.


yet keyboards companies are heading still in wrong direction...
confused
Posted by: Karnevil

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 07:23 AM

It seems we are in full agreement! smile
Well, convenience has won over sound quality. Even many of todays analog synths sound inferior to the 70s models, like MiniMoog Voyager which lacks the richness and power in sound that the original Mini-Moogs offered, though we got a decent tradeoff with the added tuning stability.
Well, I guess I'm still very happy with my digital piano, but some day I will have a grand piano in my living room. smile
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 07:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Karnevil
Well, I guess I'm still very happy with my digital piano, but some day I will have a grand piano in my living room. smile


I guess it will ba an analoge grand piano? grin
Posted by: Karnevil

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 07:41 AM

Definately analoge, yes! laugh
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 08:51 AM

What Roland needs to do is at the very least come out with another Evolution style upgrade to the V-Piano and allow retailers to lower their prices for a sale once again. The price was raised now long enough and the market still does not have any competitors that can match the organic qualities and richness of sound the V-piano produces.

I, like bennevis, play Grand Piano's in concert settings all the time so I know what they sound and feel like. First of all the criticism that I hear over the years about the V-piano not living up to the hype in my opinion come from three different sources.

The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.

Secondly there are those who bought Avant-Grands which are its closest competitor and feel the need to justify their purchase by saying how much better they are in comparison, etc. They are a great instrument, and are a worthy competitor. However they really fall in two very different categories.

Third are actual owners which are very few who all have different talents and abilities but do share one common passion which led us to buy the most expensive stand-alone digital piano to date. I personally went through this over ten years ago when I landed Yamahas flagship model the CLP990 which I still play and love how it sounds. In comparison to the V-piano, it.still feels more like a real grand due to having wooden hammers and spruce keys. When hearing the sound out from its own speakers, it has a natural sounding tone to it that no other CLP has yet to match after 10 or more years. Now fast-forward to when the V-piano was released and I first played it at a Sam Ashe using pro audio headphones I brought it. The sound blew me away then which was not easy to do since I play the real thing and already own a great digital. two years later I made the purchase after getting the deal I wanted. After going through a return from a damaged product and waiting even more, it finally arrived.

Now after pluging it in at home and playing it for many hours that first fay, was I still as impressed as I was when I first heard it two years prior? I have to say that yes I was. And that is thanks to bennevis and his patches as they breathed new life into the product and made the default sounds a whole lot better. It realy is a night and day difference.

Now most of the criticism I hear about the V-piano seems to come from people who have not added bennevis's user created sounds first and formost. Secondly much of the criticism lies with playing it in a music store with the V-piano connected to terrible speakers and or terrible quality headphones.

Roland should have come out with the V-piano Grand (which sounds identical throguh headphones as it is the same sound engine) and had people hear it with its excellent quality speakers. I'm pretty sure that after a year or two of people playing it and raving about it online, Roland would have justified the release of the smaller V-piano and marketed it in a much better way.

Sadly the failure of the V-piano caurrently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product. However without any competition, (physis isn't out yet) except for pianoteq, perhaps their new stategy of raising the price and stopping its sales may work to some degree.

However what Roland needs to do is keep current owners talking about the V-Piano and there is no better way to illicit excitement than release an update. Once every two years is about the longest times inbetween updates anyone can take before believing a product has been abandoned for a newer model or for lack of sales.

So that is where we are at this point in time. Has it lived up to the hype it once recieved when it first came out? Probably not, however it did set its expectations pretty high. In my case, it gets close enough for me and has met my expectations. V-piano is still in my opinion the best sounding digital piano since you can tweak the sound to get what you want if you have the patience. I'll be doing a lot of recording the next few months and will be able to share my music once a cd is finalized. Roland should do something soon to regain interest in this market once more. I think it is a mistake to let their competitors catch up before they make their next move.Even if its a small update, they really should ido something. And again I urge Roland to get in touch with bennevis here in this forum who trully has done more for the advancement of this fully modelled V-piano by meticulously listening to CD's of grand piano's as well as grands he plays and creating very close matches in sound. Hire people like him and you can improve the sound set even further for the defaults which are lacking in punch in comparison. So from current owners, the criticism now mainly comes from a lack of any newer updates. (as well as ivory key wear but that is taken care of by Roland's warranty dept. in a timely manner so far.) Roland can change the attitude and discussion real fast by releasing a new update. It is easy marketing and if done right, will get them some more sales and better brand name recognition at the very least by showing the world they are still cutting edge equipment without equal at the moment which is true.

Posted by: bennevis

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:10 AM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


The way the V-piano was marketed, lacking any pads, and not allowing the use of its own GM sounbank shows they too wanted this to be just the best piano recreation possible. However not everyone has as good an ear as you do, and certainly not the Roland engineers who came up with the defaults. They could use someone like you quite honestly.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:21 AM

Quote:
The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.


Complete utter BS !
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
The first being its competitors saying how they played it and yet there is something inherintly wrong with the sound that they can only hear, etc. I'm pretty sure there are some competitors planted by rival companies who's main goal is to make everyone believe they own the product, give it just enough praise, and yet make up something bad about the product etc. or say they sold it to move onto its competitor etc. With the internet age, it is very easy to do this and sadly it happens more often than people would like to believe.


Are you referring to me? If so, say it.
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:30 AM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


couldn't agree more.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 01:22 PM

Popper and Brace,

I am not pointing fingers at anyone, as I do not know and do not care about your intentions or interest in which companies pianos get praise and which do not. I am simply pointing out all the diferent forms of criticism the V-piano has gotten and could get, valid or not. It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.

As for me, my agenda is to keep on searching for the best possible digital piano available and look to buy one once every 10 or so years. 10 or so years ago I bought Yamahas flagship CLP990 and am still happy with its petormance. I give Yamaha all sorts of praise for inventing that machine. Roland's V-Piano had a lot of hype and unrealistic expectations when it was announced and for some it did not live ip to expectations. For me it has lived up to them since I am feeling more connected now to playing it in how it sounds when compared to my beautifully sampled Clavinova. I still play both, however the more I play them, the more I gravitate towards the V.

I am glad that the V is getting competition in the modeling world with the new Physis piano. I will be interested in that one as pure curiosity since I am not selling nor buying another digital piano for another 10 years. I still am a fan of new technology as I am writing this on my new Ipad 3. In a few months, I will have a cd out with music played on the V. I will make sure you guys hear what it can sound like in a good solid mix and by itself in piano solo's. In the end this is a forum with so few people interested in what goes on with digital pianos. 99% of people cannot and will never care about having the best piano sound or what goes into a sound. That is why the market is The way it is and prices remain so high. I do see in the V-piano that a lot of quality and effort went into its design and implimentation. I love hooking up mu computer to it and messing with the sounds. I again thank bennevis and hope to see some more creations. I wish I was more proactive and created my own sounds. This summer I will and contribute to the thread bennevis started.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 02:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.


I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Roland should hire bennevis and have him help in creating the next Evolution part 2 upgrade that the V-piano deserves. At the very least come out with the extra sounds taken from the V-piano Grand as part of Rolands way to say they are still supporting their amazing product.


Thanks for this endorsement grin.

However, my interests are solely in good, authentic piano sounds - I've no interest in any sound that lean more towards EP etc, so I suspect that my input will fall short of most DP users' expectations. If I had a say in the design of the upgrades, I'd simply use modeled piano sounds that sound identical to that of the big names' concert grands, plus maybe a few period pianos (Walter, Graf, Erard, Pleyel), and name the settings as such, just like the way I did on my customizations (which are as close to the real pianos - to my ears - as I could get using the existing presets, but obviously not quite identical). But that would probably fall foul of copyright laws.

The way the sounds behave depending on how the pianist plays is already way beyond what any sampled DP can do, and I don't see much scope for improvement here, especially as so much can be customized by the user anyway.


100% agreed. The way the V-piano behaves is unlike anything a sampled piano can produce. That is why it feels and sounds organic when being played. It has been a great investment so far and I hope to see another voice update similar to the evolution. That would show some support by Roland that they still care about the technology and breath new badly needed fire which might fuel interest in the product and idea of physical modeling once more.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.


You are quite unbelievable...
Posted by: DazedAndConfused

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


Sadly the failure of the V-piano currently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product.


The "consensus" view is that the V-Piano has failed is at best anecdotal and more likely due the persistently vindictive campaign of a few empty vessels.

Looking today at the website of one of Europe's biggest music stores, I noticed that the V-Piano Grand is outselling both the Avantgrand N2 and N3 despite costing £2000 more than the latter.

My view is that a £5000 DP with only acoustic piano sounds and no speakers was never ever destined for the home. The V-Piano is a stage or studio instrument and should be judged on those terms. The fact that so many discerning pianists have adopted it as a practice instrument at home is surely a bonus for Roland.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: DazedAndConfused
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


Sadly the failure of the V-piano currently lies mainly with the way Roland has made all of us feel like they abandoned the product.


The "consensus" view is that the V-Piano has failed is at best anecdotal and more likely due the persistently vindictive campaign of a few empty vessels.

Looking today at the website of one of Europe's biggest music stores, I noticed that the V-Piano Grand is outselling the Avantgrand N3 despite costing £2000 more.

My view is that a £5000 DP with only acoustic piano sounds and no speakers was never ever destined for the home. The V-Piano is a stage or studio instrument and should be judged on those terms. The fact that so many discerning pianists have adopted it as a practice instrument at home is surely a bonus for Roland.


Oh that can't be, the sound is so flawed compared to everything else. I am shocked. wink

I guess in terms of marketing, it seems to have been marketed towards the studio and stage, however its wieght has made it a dificult sell for gigging musicians.

The V-Piano Grand is a very nice sounding instrument, and has been selling well lately so perhaps the matketing has been working for that so far. Perhaps that is why they raised the price of the V-Piano.

I honestly want to see the market expand though for the V-Piano and I feel Roland would be missing out if they allow other companies get the heads up. Make a cheaper mid range one and sell it to the masses. We need more High quality pianos in homes, be it upright or digital.
Posted by: DazedAndConfused

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano


I honestly want to see the market expand though for the V-Piano and I feel Roland would be missing out if they allow other companies get the heads up. Make a cheaper mid range one and sell it to the masses. We need more High quality pianos in homes, be it upright or digital.


Where would that leave the Supernatural range?

I think Roland's strategy is logical. The very successful Supernatural pianos are for the home and the V-Pianos are for studio and stage.

The modelling technology is Roland's flagship and it doesn't make sense for it to be priced lower than SN pianos. IMO.
Posted by: Gigantoad

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 04:54 PM

Roland already said what they think about the V-Piano. It's their flag ship digital piano and as such they don't want to sell it to the masses. Apparently they think it helps the brand name, much like the top of the line BMW or Mercedes helps to market the lower models. Keeping the price high will gives it that luxury touch that only few can afford.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 06:39 PM

Bech, if you're comparing the V-Piano to 'high quality acoustics' you're going to be disappointed in the V-Piano. The highest end DPs don't even approach a well prepped mid grade acoustic grand let alone a high end acoustic. What is more important to you, touch or tone? If touch, have a look at the AvantGrand N1 for a a little more money, and I personally prefer the sound of mine vs the V-Piano. I think for mimicking the behavior of the sound of an acoustic grand, there is no better DP than the V-Piano, but for all other categories there are other, better options, some at less money. The LX-15 represents a better value and sound with the same action and a beautiful cabinet and speaker system for less money!
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano

I honestly don't care. If you believe my post has anything to do with you, that is your business. So far you're the one drawing attention to yourself over this.


I was going to respond to this thread, until I read this. I owned a V-Piano, but you don't care, apparently, so I'll not comment further.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
It would be naive to think companies or people with agendas have not written posts or articles meant to prop up a competing manufacturer. That has been going on since the beggining of advertising and marketing of products took place.


Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence at all that ANYONE on this forum has made negative comments or criticised the V-Piano for any reason other than because it is their honestly held opinion.


Beyond that, I wouldn't think that resorting to Ad Hominem would get such a free pass here.
Posted by: PianoWorksATL

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence....
The hundreds of sock puppets that have surfaced over the years are evidence that it does happen, even if it is not happening in this instance. Moderators have tools to catch IP dupes, but they are not detectives nor do they evaluate for truth.

I'm not directing this at anyone, because I see similarities in threads about products like Korg Kronos & SV-1, to Roland FP-4F, Yamaha YPD-141, etc...so I hope others can see my perspective.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone bothers with evidence before being influenced by the opinions of anonymous forum posters. Should there be? In a small industry with little in the way of detailed independent reviews, constant cries for genuine innovation, fewer brick & mortar retail outlets where someone might be able to try for themselves, we can't ignore the effect of the same 10 people kicking the same ball around every few months on the casual lurkers that might drop in. Change any one of those factors, and the impact drops to negligible - just a footnote as part of a shopper's due diligence.

The V-piano is expensive with high expectations. I'm not surprised at critical reviews about a flagship product. I lose interest when the same grievance appears half a dozen times in half a dozen threads, which I feel is different than sharing an opinion. It plays out like an agenda.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
I was going to respond to this thread, until I read this. I owned a V-Piano, but you don't care, apparently, so I'll not comment further.


You got it wrong, I own a V-Piano, and I still own all of the instruments I've ever bought. It is amazing how discussion about the V-Piano brings in so much hate out of people who don't even own one. When going to a B&M that has a V-Piano or any digital piano to demo, it is very important to take high end headphones with you. I have never seen high end headphones or speakers attached to any of the keyboards over the years from Mars Music (when it was still around) Sam Ashe, or Guitar Center. The speakers that are there are also on average are very old and falling apart for the most part (terrible sound). The two V-piano's at Sam Ashe were banged up on all four corners and the keys have a nasty look to them after all the greasy hands playing it. The V-piano out in a showroom really is meant to be played in a control environment. For being a high end product, in those B&M's mentioned it is treated like any other keyboard. For people to want to spend twice as much or three times as much for a product, it really has to be that good. I am not saying the V-piano is worth $3,000 more than a Roland RD-700NX. However if you are nitpicky about piano sound like me, it is. That market is a very small one, as musicians and recording artists interested to have one in a studio environment, or a couple people in bands willing to take them on tour. However there are a few of us who are none of the above who purchased one because they want the best of the best. I for one spent a lot of time making up my mind. I did try out the AG series since I was curious about it. It did not sound or feel any better than my current CLP990 to make the leap. Now if it was sampled off of a Yamaha CFX, perhaps I would be telling a different tune, however even then the sampled sound is not for me anymore.

Granted, I am happy with the results that bennevis has come with in regards to the Yamaha CFX sound on the V-Piano. It is very close if anyone is interested in hearing. It is nice to have a thread where owners can share sounds created as well. No other digital offers that type of control at the moment.

Check out this thread below where users who own a V-piano can share their user created presets.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1578653/V-Piano%20presets%20exchange!%20How%20.html#Post1578653

Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Maybe so, but there is absolutely no evidence....
The hundreds of sock puppets that have surfaced over the years are evidence that it does happen, even if it is not happening in this instance. Moderators have tools to catch IP dupes, but they are not detectives nor do they evaluate for truth.

I'm not directing this at anyone, because I see similarities in threads about products like Korg Kronos & SV-1, to Roland FP-4F, Yamaha YPD-141, etc...so I hope others can see my perspective.

There is absolutely no evidence that anyone bothers with evidence before being influenced by the opinions of anonymous forum posters. Should there be? In a small industry with little in the way of detailed independent reviews, constant cries for genuine innovation, fewer brick & mortar retail outlets where someone might be able to try for themselves, we can't ignore the effect of the same 10 people kicking the same ball around every few months on the casual lurkers that might drop in. Change any one of those factors, and the impact drops to negligible - just a footnote as part of a shopper's due diligence.

The V-piano is expensive with high expectations. I'm not surprised at critical reviews about a flagship product. I lose interest when the same grievance appears half a dozen times in half a dozen threads, which I feel is different than sharing an opinion. It plays out like an agenda.


It is hard to believe anyone is naive enough to think this doesn't happen..lol..
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 09:50 PM

Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 10:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.
Posted by: Lefty Chev

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.


Beyond any of that, trying to tear down the poster instead of discussing their points is in really bad form. Either their points hold water or they don't. Attacking the poster just makes the person doing it look bad.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/14/12 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Could it not be argued that the reverse is also possible - i.e. hiring folks to continuously post positive comments about products, in an effort to improve their reputation.

Please note that I do not believe either happens here on PianoWorld - I am merely pointing out that it is equally possible.


I can only really recall one instance where I thought someone was being paid to post information here (and I may have been wrong about that) - and that was positive information. It seemed laughable to most of us, given the low stature of the particular brand, the glowing tributes and the endlessly repetitive posts, although I could see casual visitors being influenced (maybe).

Recently someone popped up (and I don't mean Dr Popper!) to say that the Yamaha CP series was not discontinued, and I suspected that that person was connected with the brand, but no value judgments were offered by that member.

I believe that most of us who come here regularly would be able to spot plants, and other than those isolated cases mentioned above, I don't recall anyone posting as if they were incognito industry reps. One or two retailers may have "crossed the line" occasionally by not revealing their status and bias, but that also is rare. On the other hand some non-affiliated members are very partisan about their instruments, and "dig in" hard when challenged - but that's not the same thing as being a plant.

What I do regret, though, is the tendency for discussions to degenerate into personal attacks. The V-Piano threads seem very prone to that! I can't see the point in endless attacks and counterattacks without anything new being learned. People have different requirements and tastes, and there is no point in lambasting someone who simply has a different preference to one's own.


This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.

I believe there is a need for Roland to continue to support the V-Piano with at least one more update. It would spark a more positive discussion from owners and also those on the fence about buying one. I do not know Roland's future marketing plans for the V-Piano however they currently aren't doing anything at all.

In a way I do wish there were more V-Piano and or V-Piano Grand owners who would join this forum so they could contribute to bennevis's voice sharing thread. However I have come to the realization that is not going to happen anytime soon. Perhaps when Roland moves past the Supernatural line and modeling technology encompases all of their pianos where the same user settings can be applied. For that the technology inside the V-Piano needs to get a lot less expensive to manufacturer, or Roland would have to make back the money on Research and Development first to warant a drop in price and mid range products utilizing the tech. Either way, I do feel modeling is the future and even if it takes Yamaha five years, I think they too will eventually come out with the same.


Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 03:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-PianoIn
a way I do wish there were more V-Piano and or V-Piano Grand owners who would join this forum so they could contribute to bennevis's voice sharing thread. However I have come to the realization that is not going to happen anytime soon.


it won't happen because those instruments are ridiculously overpriced. V-Piano grand is actually sick overpriced so don't expect too many crazy owners wink Digital or modeled piano should be less expensive then acoustic and in that case is the opposite sick
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 03:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Granted, I am happy with the results that bennevis has come with in regards to the Yamaha CFX sound on the V-Piano. It is very close if anyone is interested in hearing. It is nice to have a thread where owners can share sounds created as well. No other digital offers that type of control at the moment.

Not so. Check out TADutchman's thread for Kawai CA63 and 93 owners.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.


No, it degenerated when you made thinly veiled references to me and one or two others, then denied it with a very dismissive, arrogant retort when asked to state your case more directly.

So, who was your comment referring to?

Let's remember that the very positive and then the negative or at least shall we say qualified comments generally come from a few posters:

Me - had a V-Piano, got rid of it because I didn't like the tone (regardless of all the fiddling around that is possible).
Lawrence (MelodialWorks Music) - had a V-Piano, got rid of it for the same reasons.
Dr. Popper - Professional musician, played a V-Piano many times, hates it.
Bruce (bfb) - Got a V-Piano, not enamoured with the tone so uses it exclusively to control software now and would have got rid of it had it not cost him so much. Thinks Roland should further develop it.
Richard (pv88) - Got a V-Piano. Hears issues with the tone and is having problems with the keys but is prepared to tolerate those problems for all the good things the V does.
bennevis - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it. Had replacement keys due to wear.
Kona - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it, no issues with the piano but frustrated Roland have done diddly-squat with the concept since launch.
DazedandConfused - Plays a V regularly, likes it very much, intends to buy one at some point in the future.

Have I missed anyone with lots of personal experience of the V that very often contributes to V-Piano threads? So, Kona - who was your comment referring to?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 05:58 AM

Lets get this straight ... I don't shrill for ANYONE
I had a V-Piano I thought it's mid range sounded artificial and terrible so I off loaded it end of story.
I have a RD700NX which is also a Roland and I think its pretty damm good and much better then the V-piano ever was.
I think the JP-80 is the best board I've played for years ... so don't give me BS about any anti Roland bias or anti V-piano bias.
I have absolutely nothing at stake whatsoever ... I didn't spend thousands of dollars on a V-piano so I didn't have to defend my decision.
All I ever say is the ONLY people I know who like the V-piano are amateur players who actually have bought one themselves and feel the need to defend it. These are coincidentally the only people who can't seem to hear its awful synthetic mid range. I like many other ex V owners here don't think much of the V-piano but we have no reason to fool ourselves unlike those who shelled out whatever absurd amount of money Roland asks for it.

And lets clear up some misinformation .... on V-piano sales
Roland have not sold many V-pianos at all ... which is why so few owners come on the forum. V-Piano owners are rare.
As for the person who stated as a fact the V-piano Grand is outselling Yamaha's AG ...well lets talk facts.
There have been less the 30 V-Grands delivered worldwide (yep 30 !!!) ... Yamaha has sold over 2000 AG's ....

Now I don't much like the AG either so don't accuse me of being a AG shrill ... it's just the facts.

Nothing wrong with Roland in fact I believe they make the best stage piano in the world and have the best DP technology but the V isn't it. The RD700NX is a far better board with less flaws then the V. The V is a interesting exercise but it isn't there yet.
What fools you all is that it's got a amazing connective feel to it unlike any other DP and that makes you think its good. But it might feel good playing it (as the CP1 does) the V's sound is fatally flawed (not that this clique of V owners can hear it).

I've got no agenda against the V ...only a agenda against poor sounding pianos but I'm going to call it how I see it because if I can stop some cashed up newbie who is listening to one of these V love fest threads from dropping $5k plus on something that's a complete waste of money then I will.
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 06:08 AM

Methinks you doth protest too much.... grin
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 07:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
All I ever say is the ONLY people I know who like the V-piano are amateur players who actually have bought one themselves and feel the need to defend it.


smokin

interesting, tell this to Paul Mirkovich and others pros playing v-piano...

sick
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 07:41 AM

Is it this Paul Mirkovich? The one that "assists" Roland with its marketing?

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?vid=50180512

And as an aside (irrelevant, admittedly) on his myspace page lists his heroes as - Mom, wife, and, wait for it....Jesus.

Sick bag anyone?
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: offnote
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
All I ever say is the ONLY people I know who like the V-piano are amateur players who actually have bought one themselves and feel the need to defend it.


smokin

interesting, tell this to Paul Mirkovich and others pros playing v-piano...

sick


Actually I can say this - those who never played acoustic grand piano may not like V-Piano.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 07:53 AM

Hey, don't forget those who do not play classical music.
Posted by: offnote

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 08:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hey, don't forget those who do not play classical music.


exactly right as well. In popular music mix you can get away with shallow sounding DPs and you have to be really advanced jazz player to appreaciate and make use of acoustic grand full dynamic range.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 09:04 AM

Which is rather like saying those who don't play classical or "really advanced jazz" aren't really interested in the sound of their pianos. Which strikes me as elitist and (of course) total nonsense.
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Which is rather like saying those who don't play classical or "really advanced jazz" aren't really interested in the sound of their pianos. Which strikes me as elitist and (of course) total nonsense.


I don't think its nonsense. It's spot on.

For non-classical music mixes, very bright pianos from workstations work better than recordings of a real acoustic grand. The real grands sound muddy in most mixes and need plenty of equalization and compression. Where's nonsense?

PS
and there hardly a doubt that classical and Jazz pianists deliver far more expression than other styles. As a rule, they can play your style of choice perfectly and a self-taught hip-hop artist cannot play classical or jazz anywhere good.
Posted by: krzyzowski

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 11:34 AM

We are very fortunate to have a company like Roland to take an engineering gamble on such a unique product like the "V". These discussions are valuable to future artists looking to move their playing to a new level, that heretofore, other boards could not live up to. It is "Zen-like" to seize on a new product to gain impetice and direction. It is the quintessential Goldilocks piano; not too big, not too loud, not too small, not too..
Posted by: erichlof

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 12:53 PM

Yes, the V-Piano has hopefully kickstarted a trend that will bring physically- modeled DP's to the forefront. The Physis piano is a perfect example. Although initial audio demos for this product reveal a slightly thin treble that lacks some 'body' of an acoustic grand. Time will tell if they are able to hone the sound further.

But hopefully, we will see the day when a small, portable keyboard under ones arm will pack heavy-duty processing power so that it can be physically-modeled and give the user endless tweakability and HD midi velocity response.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: krzyzowski
We are very fortunate to have a company like Roland to take an engineering gamble on such a unique product like the "V". These discussions are valuable to future artists looking to move their playing to a new level, that heretofore, other boards could not live up to. It is "Zen-like" to seize on a new product to gain impetice and direction. It is the quintessential Goldilocks piano; not too big, not too loud, not too small, not too..


Both Roland and Yamaha have been essential in advancing the digital piano field. In my opinion Yamaha took the lead about 12 years ago however slowed down the next 9 and let Roland take the lead with the release of the V-Piano. The AG series has brought the technological battle closer and it will be interesting to see where things lead. I do feel that in general, sampled based DP's have not improved as rapidly as we would like polyphony-wise. It is hard to believe that is still an issue even today. Every DP should have by now 256 polyphony standard. As this forum makes clear, the V-Piano isn't for everyone, however what it has done is bring a large enough change to an area that hasn't changed that much ov the last 10 or so years. As an example you need look no further than the CLP990 specs and compare them with todays top of the line Clavinova's. I just hope advancement occurs a little more quickly the next 10 years when I will be ready to buy my V-Piano's replacement.
Posted by: Bob Newbie

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 01:11 PM

To "V" or not to "V" this gentleman seems to have found the answer! smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfECxccO7zg
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 02:00 PM

Yes, and Roland's cheque might have helped him make up his mind.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 02:11 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.


No, it degenerated when you made thinly veiled references to me and one or two others, then denied it with a very dismissive, arrogant retort when asked to state your case more directly.

So, who was your comment referring to?

Let's remember that the very positive and then the negative or at least shall we say qualified comments generally come from a few posters:

Me - had a V-Piano, got rid of it because I didn't like the tone (regardless of all the fiddling around that is possible).
Lawrence (MelodialWorks Music) - had a V-Piano, got rid of it for the same reasons.
Dr. Popper - Professional musician, played a V-Piano many times, hates it.
Bruce (bfb) - Got a V-Piano, not enamoured with the tone so uses it exclusively to control software now and would have got rid of it had it not cost him so much. Thinks Roland should further develop it.
Richard (pv88) - Got a V-Piano. Hears issues with the tone and is having problems with the keys but is prepared to tolerate those problems for all the good things the V does.
bennevis - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it. Had replacement keys due to wear.
Kona - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it, no issues with the piano but frustrated Roland have done diddly-squat with the concept since launch.
DazedandConfused - Plays a V regularly, likes it very much, intends to buy one at some point in the future.

Have I missed anyone with lots of personal experience of the V that very often contributes to V-Piano threads? So, Kona - who was your comment referring to?


yep, i think you've found all the vpiano owners in the world. we are like the immortals of Green Lantern. perched high above all the DP riff-raff out there playing their honky tonkish dp's..

i haven't finished going through all the detritus of this thread- its amazing how vpiano threads are like roadside IED's waiting to blow away some poor unsuspecting blogger.

But- to restate my beliefs as a member of the 2000 lb portable DP club- i am all for the vpiano if roland would act like they give a crap and let us know they haven't left the building completely. that's it. period. Kona is right- an update would send the market a signal that the original vpiano designers weren't taken out the back door and shot.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Hey, don't forget those who do not play classical music.


yes, i think you are on to something there. it may be the discerning argument that separates the proponents from the opponents.
Posted by: Bob Newbie

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 03:26 PM

There is no "big" money in playing classical music..its all pop/rock
Lady Gaga makes more in one tour than it would take the classical
artist several lifetimes and alot of endless concerts to even come
close...Roland wouldn't have that much interest in catering to
classical pianists..
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
Roland wouldn't have that much interest in catering to classical pianists..

But in terms of piano, that's where the kudos still resides. Roland and Yamaha are very keen to have classical pianists demonstrating their top end creations. It carries far more weight than a pimply youth from the latest boy band.
Posted by: Bob Newbie

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:02 PM

If were talking about selling pianos..all Roland has to do is hire Lady Gaga
for a commershill, with a suggestive line like.... I just love my "V"
sales would take off... smile
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb
yep, i think you've found all the vpiano owners in the world. we are like the immortals of Green Lantern. perched high above all the DP riff-raff out there playing their honky tonkish dp's..


Are we of the elite few, then? Couldn't have said it better, myself. grin
Posted by: DazedAndConfused

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Lets get this straight ... I don't shrill for ANYONE


..... Hmmmmmm

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
And lets clear up some misinformation .... on V-piano sales
Roland have not sold many V-pianos at all ... which is why so few owners come on the forum.


Wow ... hard to argue with that logic. There is no pianistic world beyond the forum. I must remember this formula:

number of posts = k * total piano sales. LOL!

On the other hand, could it be that as the V-Piano is clearly a digital piano for professionals, maybe the real professional musicians are far too busy making music to be bothered defending their purchase from a persistent brace of cloth-eared clowns on a messageboard?

Quote:
As for the person who stated as a fact the V-piano Grand is outselling Yamaha's AG ...


you mean me ......

Quote:
well lets talk facts.


Please do, I am all ears ......

Quote:
There have been less the 30 V-Grands delivered worldwide (yep 30 !!!) ... Yamaha has sold over 2000 AG's ....


2000 N3s? Wow!

You are remarkably well informed on this issue that you have nothing to 'shrill' about ...... would love to know where you got those 'factual' figures.

Not being "professionally supported" by anyone, just a humble consumer I got my 'facts' from the Thomann site which is the only online store that I know of that provides a sales chart for different categories of instruments. In that store, at least the V-Piano Grand is ranked higher than either the N2 or N3. Hardly definitive, not that it particularly matters.

The thing I find really interesting is this 'consensus' that seems to have grown that somehow the V-Piano has been a disaster for Roland when very few people except insiders ...hmmm .... would have any real knowledge of the situation. It is amazing the effect that a few loudmouths can have in a forum .....

Quote:
What fools you all .....


This I need to hear .... please tell us, oh great one!

Quote:
..... is that it's got a amazing connective feel to it unlike any other DP and that makes you think its good.


I see! That's where we have all been going wrong. Mistaking a musical instrument that responds to touch in a way that leaves other DPs standing as being in some way .... 'good' .... No, wait a minute, that doesn't sound right isn't that what a great musical instrument is supposed to do?

Quote:
But it might feel good playing it (as the CP1 does) the V's sound is fatally flawed (not that this clique of V owners can hear it).


If you genuinely believe the sound to be fatally flawed then possibly your hearing is damaged in some way .... high frequency loss from too many 'gigs'? It is probably worth making a trip to see a 'real' doctor.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
This thread degenerated after a couple forum members thought a portion of my post was directed at them. It does seem since the V-Piano is different than the rest of the sampled pianos, it brings with it a lot of emotions, good and bad.


No, it degenerated when you made thinly veiled references to me and one or two others, then denied it with a very dismissive, arrogant retort when asked to state your case more directly.

So, who was your comment referring to?

Let's remember that the very positive and then the negative or at least shall we say qualified comments generally come from a few posters:

Me - had a V-Piano, got rid of it because I didn't like the tone (regardless of all the fiddling around that is possible).
Lawrence (MelodialWorks Music) - had a V-Piano, got rid of it for the same reasons.
Dr. Popper - Professional musician, played a V-Piano many times, hates it.
Bruce (bfb) - Got a V-Piano, not enamoured with the tone so uses it exclusively to control software now and would have got rid of it had it not cost him so much. Thinks Roland should further develop it.
Richard (pv88) - Got a V-Piano. Hears issues with the tone and is having problems with the keys but is prepared to tolerate those problems for all the good things the V does.
bennevis - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it. Had replacement keys due to wear.
Kona - Got a V-Piano, very happy with it, no issues with the piano but frustrated Roland have done diddly-squat with the concept since launch.
DazedandConfused - Plays a V regularly, likes it very much, intends to buy one at some point in the future.

Have I missed anyone with lots of personal experience of the V that very often contributes to V-Piano threads? So, Kona - who was your comment referring to?


yep, i think you've found all the vpiano owners in the world. we are like the immortals of Green Lantern. perched high above all the DP riff-raff out there playing their honky tonkish dp's..

i haven't finished going through all the detritus of this thread- its amazing how vpiano threads are like roadside IED's waiting to blow away some poor unsuspecting blogger.

But- to restate my beliefs as a member of the 2000 lb portable DP club- i am all for the vpiano if roland would act like they give a crap and let us know they haven't left the building completely. that's it. period. Kona is right- an update would send the market a signal that the original vpiano designers weren't taken out the back door and shot.


Lol@IED comment. Very well put. V-Piano designers out there, if you're listening, and not shot, let us original V-Piano early adopters know, actually give us some type of sign that you guys or girls are working on something new for us. One of the main reasons I purchased the V-Piano because I did see it as the future, and its design is upgradeable with plenty of space left for changes or improvements like the Evolution update.

Lol@dazedandconfused. smile. If anything, these V-Piano discussions that pop up about every six or so months at the very least are mixed with raw emotions and then usually end with humor.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: krzyzowski
It [i.e., the V-Piano] is the quintessential Goldilocks piano; not too big, not too loud, not too small, not too..


Very well said, as it fits the bill for many players.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:42 PM

@Kona_V-Piano,

You are right about Roland not doing much of anything to add some additional presets to the V, although my guess would be that the current technology (in regards to the modeling in the V) has not been updated yet, meaning that there are probably no new or significant changes in that technology.

It may be a while yet before Roland develops a new digital with a different (and, updated) sound engine, as that's up to R&D in Japan to decide on those details. Everybody wants to know "when" this technology will evolve again, so that remains the big "?" for now.

Even so, I am sticking with the current V until I see anything that looks to be similar (or, equal) to what it does...
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:55 PM

You never know but the V-Piano may yet prove to be a defining kind of "concorde moment" where it is the pinnacle of the hardware stage piano. Notwithstanding my personal objections to the tone of the thing it is a technical tour-de-force. And if the cost of development and production is the direct cause of its high price, its relative market failure might cause others to think long and hard before trying to emulate it. And this might also explain Roland's apparent retreat from it.

I'm quite tempted to say that if I still had mine at this stage of the game I might keep it because of what it represents. Just some random thoughts anyway...
Posted by: DazedAndConfused

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
Very well put. V-Piano designers out there, if you're listening, and not shot, let us original V-Piano early adopters know, actually give us some type of sign that you guys or girls are working on something new for us. One of the main reasons I purchased the V-Piano because I did see it as the future, and its design is upgradeable with plenty of space left for changes or improvements like the Evolution update.


In this vid (awful sound quality), the pianist does say that he knows that Roland are working on refinements but I don't know when the interview was done. He may have been referring to the Evolution updates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w_cUQOV-xM

Open question: would V-Piano owners be willing to pay for future upgrades? If not, I cannot see the business case for Roland investing money in R & D to provide software updates for customers who are already happy with the sound and possibilities that their instrument provides.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: DazedAndConfused
[quote=Kona_V-Piano]
Open question: would V-Piano owners be willing to pay for future upgrades? If not, I cannot see the business case for Roland investing money in R & D to provide software updates for customers who are already happy with the sound and possibilities that their instrument provides.



as the non-classical player inelegantly put it: "you're s**tting me, right?"

i paid enough already. doing magical things to the software might get me to buy a more portable version in the future. doing nothing with the OS won't get me to do that, for certain.

Software was MADE to be UPDATED! keep the user close to you. granted, this isn't a free iphone app, but still, you can give us something once a year to play with.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 05:51 PM

essbrace, you may very well be correct in your assumption. If in a few years we get nothing new in terms of modeling tech enhancements be it a new model or an update to the currrent V, and the supernatural line continues to sell well, not even Yamaha will want to change their current sampling/hybrid DP's anytime soon. It is common sense to keep the status quo as long as possible, that is why 64 to 128 polyphony and sampled sounds have been the norm now without much change for the last ten years.

There is still yet a window where Roland can get back into the game of trying to jump start the idea of modeling as the future. It just needs to happen sooner rather than later.
Posted by: Karnevil

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 06:27 PM

I think Roland made a fundamental mistake with the pricing of the V-Piano. They made it way too expensive. If it sounded for all intents and purposes like the real thing, then they could justify the price, but it doesn't (still a very good DP though). Now, because of poor sales (??) it will be more difficult for Roland to justify putting a lot of money and effort into a V-Piano2.
I think it's less likely that we'll see an update in the near future. Just look in general at the digital emulation development the last years. Not a lot of improvement in realism as far as I can hear. You get the new VA/synth or hammond clone every other year, but the sonical improvements are minimal at best IMO.
For a new V-Piano there would have to be fairly drastic changes to the sound and/or setup, I just don't see that happening in the next few years.
Considering also the rate of development in DSP/CPU area, I would personally be hesitant to buy a modelled piano using old technology. So that begs the question, how many more years can Roland sell a digital piano for that crazy price with "old" DSP technology? I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 07:30 PM

Well my AvantGrand N1 hooked to the Nord Piano 2 is better than all of your boards, so take that! laugh

Jokes aside, we each hear differently. I've probably played a combined 15 hours on V-Pianos since they've been released and I can't get ver the awful mids. I even spent almost 2 hours setting up the V-Piano using Bennevis's presets, which by the way is a much appreciated and thoughtful task, thumbs up there. Even then, the V still had the same flawed tone. A rather cold, metalliness, and sterile sound overall. But again, that's what my ears hear. YMMV.

I believe the V exceeds all others in how the sound behaves and how it responds to touch. Roland did a fantastic job with it there.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By: ZacharyForbes
Well my AvantGrand N1 hooked to the Nord Piano 2 is better than all of your boards, so take that! laugh



Zachary, your setup sort of reminds me of the space shuttle being flown around on top of a 747.....
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 10:02 PM


I know Paul well and I've never seen him with a V-piano .... might be a Roland thing indeed.


Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Is it this Paul Mirkovich? The one that "assists" Roland with its marketing?

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?vid=50180512

And as an aside (irrelevant, admittedly) on his myspace page lists his heroes as - Mom, wife, and, wait for it....Jesus.

Sick bag anyone?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Karnevil
I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .


Not exactly remember that the software was the basis of the Supernatural sound that is their main piano these days. The V was used to develop the SN ...they are linked.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Which is rather like saying those who don't play classical or "really advanced jazz" aren't really interested in the sound of their pianos. Which strikes me as elitist and (of course) total nonsense.


I don't think its nonsense. It's spot on.

For non-classical music mixes, very bright pianos from workstations work better than recordings of a real acoustic grand. The real grands sound muddy in most mixes and need plenty of equalization and compression. Where's nonsense?

PS
and there hardly a doubt that classical and Jazz pianists deliver far more expression than other styles. As a rule, they can play your style of choice perfectly and a self-taught hip-hop artist cannot play classical or jazz anywhere good.


Utter complete total rubbish ...
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 10:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Karnevil
I wouldn't be suprised if Roland just let the V-Piano silently fade out into the DP horizon .


Not exactly remember that the software was the basis of the Supernatural sound that is their main piano these days. The V was used to develop the SN ...they are linked.


Correct, the research and development of the V-piano also helped enhance their current sampled piano sound.

http://www.roland.com/piano/SuperNATURAL_Piano.html

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

I know Paul well and I've never seen him with a V-piano .... might be a Roland thing indeed.


Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Is it this Paul Mirkovich? The one that "assists" Roland with its marketing?

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?vid=50180512

And as an aside (irrelevant, admittedly) on his myspace page lists his heroes as - Mom, wife, and, wait for it....Jesus.

Sick bag anyone?


LOL, I'm pretty sure he has one in his home studio unless the walk-through he allowed the video cameras that went into his home was all for show.
Posted by: alekkh

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/15/12 11:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Utter complete total rubbish ...


Excessive use of emotions - a sure sign of someone making a shaky point.

You are making a very shaky point, mister.
Posted by: Manolios

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 12:19 AM

You guys are pretty entertaining. Turning my TV off. Click!
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 01:53 AM



Originally Posted By: alekkh
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper

Utter complete total rubbish ...


Excessive use of emotions - a sure sign of someone making a shaky point.

You are making a very shaky point, mister.


U think ? Tell me how ... shaky one
On second thoughts ....just don't
I couldn't give a ....
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 02:22 AM

Looks like that other YouTube link (posted earlier) doesn't show Paul Mirkovich demonstrating a V-Piano, although this one does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd04PNZNQ3M

And, here's one by Rick DePiro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf6OyT0Q-k

And, Adam Berzowski:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEwTaSmnoo

And, Robert Werner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVijTYsZCQM

And, Rolf Zielke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Gec7RDVnw

Also, John Maul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzi74I7RYIw

Yana Reznik:*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fnw0-Hqiw

Who is this?**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mh5vVhYJRw

All are professional musicians.

Extra notes:

*Concert pianist.

**Very good!
Posted by: bennevis

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 05:40 AM

As far as I know, Roland's V-Piano Grand was, and still is, the only DP that was introduced to the world in a series of classical concerts in several cities in 21 countries from Sweden, Russia and China to Australia and Brazil, in all continents except Antarctica (though I suspect the British Antarctic Survey has a V-P Grand on order.... grin). There's no sterner test of a DP than to present it in a concert hall under concert conditions, with virtuosic repertoire played by a classical pianist just like a Steinway D would: using its own speakers only, no manipulation and no external amplification. (Classical concerts are never miked/amplified except in unusual venues like Olympic stadiums).

That was just last year, and I think Roland, having put so much money into that concept (and managing to persuade so many established classical concert pianists - normally completely adverse to touching DPs - in so many countries to play the V-P Grand) has no intention of letting the V-Piano go anytime soon.

And to be frank, classical musicians do use their instruments differently: some of the posts in this thread leave me scratching my head. Is a piano for making music with, and does one regard a good piano as one that allows you to express yourself fully and musically and realize the composers' intentions, and doesn't impede your ability to do so (assuming you have the technical ability)? Or is it merely something that just produces a nice sound that you can enjoy as you tinker the keyboard, and when you eventually get bored, to have the sound changed/upgraded?

Classical pianists don't 'upgrade' their pianos every year, and don't get bored with the sounds they make. After all, they are in control of the sounds that come out, not a silicon chip.

I for one am perfectly happy with the sound of my V-Piano, and just wish there were more hours in the day so I can learn more repertoire and improve my technique. Making all those customizations of acoustic concert grand pianos was really just a sideline for me, not my reason to purchase the V-Piano. The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 07:44 AM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
As far as I know, Roland's V-Piano Grand was, and still is, the only DP that was introduced to the world in a series of classical concerts in several cities in several countries from China to Argentina in all continents except Antarctica (though I suspect the British Antarctic Survey has a V-P Grand on order.... grin). There's no sterner test of a DP than to present it in a concert hall under concert conditions, with virtuosic repertoire played by a classical pianist just like a Steinway D would: using its own speakers only, no manipulation and no external amplification. (Classical concerts are never miked/amplified except in unusual venues like Olympic stadiums).

That was just last year, and I think Roland, having put so much money into that concept (and managing to persuade so many established classical concert pianists - normally completely adverse to touching DPs - in so many countries to play the V-P Grand) has no intention of letting the V-Piano go anytime soon.

And to be frank, classical musicians do use their instruments differently: some of the posts in this thread leave me scratching my head. Is a piano for making music with, and does one regard a good piano as one that allows you to express yourself fully and musically and realize the composers' intentions, and doesn't impede your ability to do so (assuming you have the technical ability)? Or is it merely something that just produces a nice sound that you can enjoy as you tinker the keyboard, and when you eventually get bored, to have the sound changed/upgraded?

Classical pianists don't 'upgrade' their pianos every year, and don't get bored with the sounds they make. After all, they are in control of the sounds that come out, not a silicon chip.

I for one am perfectly happy with the sound of my V-Piano, and just wish there were more hours in the day so I can learn more repertoire and improve my technique. Making all those customizations of acoustic concert grand pianos was really just a sideline for me, not my reason to purchase the V-Piano. The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I'd like to add that the V-Piano produces the exact same sound as the V-Piano Grand to my ears. Now I even know that if you take a real Grand Piano that is perfectly in tune and was chosen by you after trying out multiple brands so you can choose whether you like a brighter or warmer sound will always be better than anything speakers connected to a DP can produce. However not everyone has the money to buy their very own Grand Piano and even less would have enough space to put one in their home.

That is where the strengh lies with the V-Piano. As bennevis said, it feels and behaves just like an acoustic and you can hear this very easily after playing it and moving to any other sampled piano sound. Even if you move to Rolands very own SuperNatural piano sound which is based off of the V, it still is missing that organic sound and feel the piano has.

Now the way a piano sounds And whether one actually likes the way it sounds is a very personal thing. You can spend a year playing 100 different Grands and still perhaps not be able to choose just one as a favorite. You may have multiple favorites. With the V-Piano, you can have almost any Type of piano sound you prefer on that day, however after a couple months, you'll have chosen perhaps two or three that you go back and forth on depending of the song.. I for one love the way my Yamaha CLP990 sounds and still do. You would think the V-Piano whose two main piano sounds in Vintage 1 and Vintage 2 which are based off of two very different sounding piano boards that are not Yamaha Grands would be impossible to mimic and change to make it sound like a Yamaha. However I can go back and forth from my V-Piano to my CLP990 and get an almost 95% match. The only part of the sound I cannot change to match to make it a 99% match has to do with how the sounds are mixed together in the CLP990. There is a seperate sounboard mic which was used to capture this reverberation that is looped and is unnatural sounding when played under certain conditions. I got used to it and have learned to like its unique sound, however it is not reproducible on s real acoustic, so the V cannot mimic it. Also the looping of the actual piano string resonace decaying is heard repeating as well. An entire thread in this forum is stickied and one of the measures of greatness in DP sound is how long the samples last before they are looped. Because that looping is what drives some people batty and those refuse to play DP's or even recognize them. I am thankfully not one of those, however I can understand the feeling. Over the years of switching from Acoustic Grands to sampled DP's I have grown acustomed to hearing this looping and cannot avoid hearing it. Now even the AvantGrand series does not get rid of it as it uses samples.

Now after many visits to Sam Ashe while taking my own high end headphones, I played the V-Piano looking for any faults and whether it was worthy of me to spend all the money I did on it. Almost two years after its debut, I purchased one. The one at the Sam Ashe did not even have the Evolution update, so it was a nice surpise to have new sounds when it arrived.

Now after all of the different tweaks bennevis has made in the sounds using mainly the two main presets, it should be very easy to find the piano sound you like. If you love the way the Yamaha's sound, I can be honest and tell you it is possible to get very close in matching it. I will make a recording of both the CLP990 and the V-Piano playing the same song over the summer so you can hear what I mean. Granted my Clavinova sounds better over its speakers than headphones just as the AG series does as well.

A lot of attention and money has been spent by Roland to market the V-Piano Grand at different venues around the world for classical music. Perhaps it is safe to say Roland still supports the V-Piano, just not directly as its focus in on the Grand, which is for all intents and purposes the same thing, without the cabinet and speakers. It will be interesting to see if the V-Piano gets shown some attention ever again or if the focus will stay on the Grand in terms of marketing.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 02:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Kona_V-Piano
I can go back and forth from my V-Piano to my CLP990 and get an almost 95% match.


Oh yes? Well, please post recordings of both and let us all be the judge of what a "95% match" sounds like. I'd really be VERY interested in hearing that particular comparison.
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 02:41 PM

Yeah Kona, I'd be really interested to hear the comparison there. Btw, the AG through its speaker systems sounds entirely different than the AG through headphones. The AG through speakers sounds really good.
Posted by: Karnevil

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 05:27 PM

The AG sounds really good through headphones too actually, you just need to use the right headphones. Yamaha's own sounds vastly different than my two fairly high quality headsets from Audio-Technica and Denon, it's almost like listening to a different DP. With Yamaha headphones the sound is much closer to what you hear from the speakers.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 09:04 PM

just had to say this, sorry- i know its off the subject. was reading the thread from the new CP5 owner.

Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners? i don't recall anybody on this blog ever saying they bought one.

sorry. just an observation to break up the normal v-piano food fight exchange.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 09:28 PM

Originally Posted By: bennevis
The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I am in agreement with you (100%+) on the acoustic-like response.
Posted by: Kona_V-Piano

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: bennevis
The reason I bought it in preference to any other is simply that it is the only DP that 'feels' like an acoustic, and behaves like one (in terms of the way the sound changes depending on how you play), and allows me full rein to express myself, within the limits of my own technique of course.


I am in agreement with you (100%+) on the acoustic-like response.



Ditto

I hope I am able to record some examples this summer
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 09:40 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb
Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners? i don't recall anybody on this blog ever saying they bought one.

Member Hideki Matsui used to own one, and I think Dr. Popper has one - maybe he'll confirm.

I'd love to play one, but the general consensus appears to be that the improvement in sound over the CP5 does not justify double the price.

The V offers something much more unique than the CP1. However, as to which sounds/plays better, I wouldn't know.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Roland V-Piano - 05/16/12 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb


Question- are there actually more V-piano owners than there are CP1 owners?


Production wise its about a 4-1 ratio in favor of the CP1 but you would expect that with Yamaha.
Distribution power alone accounts for most of that number.