Korg Krome

Posted by: anotherscott

Korg Krome - 09/03/12 11:00 PM

For those who liked the pianos of the Kronos, but found the 88 too heavy, too expensive, or too full of stuff they didn't care about, the new Korg Krome might be the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91uwSddPO24

I'm curious about how they scaled back the piano sound. They say it is "Kronos derived" and features "full length samples for each key" but they can't be the full 4.7 gb pianos, because the unit only contains about 4 gb of samples total.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/03/12 11:49 PM

Looks pretty good, thanks for posting!

Still waiting for the SV-2 though...

James
x
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 12:08 AM

It's a Rompler WS with a modified Kronos OS under the hood. Replacement for the M50 range. Don't expect miracles but it's priced right and it out MOXes the MOX by a pretty wide margin. But a cheaper version of the Kronos? I thought the Kronos was/is pretty cheaply built anyway and this worries me a bit.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 01:04 AM

This is very interesting. Maybe there will be no SV-2 now the Krome is here??? I wonder what the compromises are. Cheaper DACs? More compressed samples? Fewer velocity layers? Even so, it's possible it will sound as good as any current sub $3k board, and potentially better. I love the fact that Korg are leading the way with full-note samples.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 02:35 AM

Well its going to be cheap ....but I think the SV-2 is still on the cards as is a full Kronos rack. But with Korg ...who knows ? Their innovation recently has been encouraging if they can get their manufacturing quality up to the others they will do very well with this. I like the Kronos pianos very much so these should be fairly good too.
Posted by: redrobin62

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 05:21 AM

<SNIFF> I can't believe people talk about the SV-1 with such reverence. I think I'm gonna cry! Yes, I own one, and even though the posters here are mentioning SV-2, its reference to its predecessor cannot be denied. The SV-1, with 500mb of memory, is pretty groundbreaking. They got away by stretching out the samples of one key left and right to a whole step. I imagine SV-2 might have, like 4gb of ROM so each key could possible be individually sampled. They'd only have around 4 or 5 velocity layers, but that's not so bad. 12 or more velocity layers would require something like 30 or more gb, not practical for today's market. (Then again, what do I know?)
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 06:06 AM

500mb for the SV-1? Are you sure?
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 08:27 AM

how good is the NH keyed ? Any tech info on that ?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 08:44 AM

500 mb? on a SV-1..... I don't think so
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 09:13 AM

I'd heard that the SV-1 had around 500mb of samples. And Studiologic claims that the Numa Piano has 1GB - so who knows?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 09:33 AM

Is that a little bit like saying "an MP3 file contains around 50mb of audio data"?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 09:48 AM

Well, every manufacturer seems to use different measurement methods. The discussions about polyphony reveal similar presentation of numbers that have little meaning by themselves.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 10:24 AM

My LCD display has 50.000.000 : 01 contrast ratio :-)
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I'm curious about how they scaled back the piano sound. They say it is "Kronos derived" and features "full length samples for each key" but they can't be the full 4.7 gb pianos, because the unit only contains about 4 gb of samples total.

In further consideration, I suspect they mostly cut back on the number of velocity layers.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Still waiting for the SV-2 though...

I hadn't thought about that, but this arguably obviates the need for an SV2. It offers better (near Kronos) levels of piano sounds in a lightweight package that would probably sell for about the same as an SV2 would sell for. I do see the SV appeal in terms of aesthetics/ergonomics, but other than that (and the tube?), I'm not sure where an SV fits into the Korg world once this appears.

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
it out MOXes the MOX by a pretty wide margin.

It definitely has some advantages over the MOX. Touchscreen, availability of a 73 key version, and what most people will probably consider better pianos and EPs (though personally, I'm fine with the MOX pianos, less so their EPs). OTOH, I tend to like Yamaha's acoustic instrument patches better than Korg's, and there's still the variable of what Korg's new 88 action will feel like.

I'm seeing it as pretty much an M50 which much improved piano and EP sounds, and when it comes to an 88 key version, lighter weight than its predecessor. I'm not sure whether that would make it a MOX killer though. But there is more to be determined...
Posted by: ando

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 12:33 PM

They seem to have revamped the touch screen too. Unlike the Kronos, you can actually turn the knobs and change values on the actual screen instead of using the buttons on the side. Bigger screen too. Seems like a big improvement. Will be interesting to see what the action is like.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 01:35 PM

Has this action already been used in previous products and if yes so, how good is it ?
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 01:41 PM

It's only € 1570 in the uk and shipping very soon ! If the action is good, this board is very, ver tempting ! But I think I ask exactly the right question; how good is it from a critical piano player point of view ?! Especially when compared to the offers of the competition...
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 03:34 PM

Music Radar has the press release - no word on how the actions differ from previous offerings:
Music Radar
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 03:41 PM

Example sound files here:
Korg
Posted by: redrobin62

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 03:47 PM

http://www.pianotraders.co.nz/piano-details.php?-571

The above link will specify the amount of ROM in the Korg SV-1. It is 512mb. This number is reported on many forums, including those of Jordan Rudess and Greg Phillinganes. The amount of ROM in the SV-1 was part of the reason that swayed me to buying it in the first place. That, and the fact, that a real 12AX7 tube amp was built into it.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: redrobin62
http://www.pianotraders.co.nz/piano-details.php?-571

The above link will specify the amount of ROM in the Korg SV-1. It is 512mb. This number is reported on many forums, including those of Jordan Rudess and Greg Phillinganes. The amount of ROM in the SV-1 was part of the reason that swayed me to buying it in the first place. That, and the fact, that a real 12AX7 tube amp was built into it.


Yes, with the number of velocity layers employed for the EPs alone, it had to be a decent size.

The Krome's 3.8Gb is the size when converted to 44.1khz 16 bit. Presumably it's compressed into a much smaller memory space before conversion. Let's hope it's not "lossy" compression.
Posted by: Ojustaboo

Re: Korg Krome - 09/04/12 07:17 PM

Deleted
Posted by: Villi

Re: Korg Krome - 09/05/12 07:19 PM

Isn't the "NH action" the same as in the SP170?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/05/12 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Villi
Isn't the "NH action" the same as in the SP170?

Good catch! Yes. So it's not an action that's going to compete with the high end actions, but it's still a reasonable MOX8 competitor. I would reserve final judgment until I played it and see how well they may have matched its response to the piano sound in the Krome.
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 09/05/12 09:12 PM

Hello, I listened to the first demo and enjoyed it- it might be the Korg piano sound I am looking for. However, I do not find the NH action that wonderful. I might consider this in the 61 key version but their keybeds in the M50 and LE have been lacking.

What I really wanted it to have would have been a digital recorded like in the Juno Gi
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/05/12 11:35 PM

@$1500 street it's going to be a big mover for Korg I'd predict ....
Posted by: ando

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:16 AM

Boy, that would be disappointing if the action is the same one as SP170. Unfortunately actions are the achilles heel of Korg. It's not that they aren't playable, just not a really satisfying feeling under the fingers. Aside from that Korg offers a lot for a good price.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 02:53 AM

So I guess for the 88 it's NH (so so keybed), no three sensors (?) - o yes.....and no AT ;-)

I guess it would have made the Krome too expensive (and heavy) to do otherwise. On the other hand , if Casio manages to put a very good keybed with ivory / three sensor / graded into their low cost piano's - why couldn't Korg come up with a better alternative to the NH (enhanced NH II ?). They promote the Krome in the video very much as a stage piano with extra's , so 88 keybed quality is and important feature. Or should be.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 09:02 AM

Actually, now I'm not sure it uses the SP170 action. I noticed that the 61 key M50 and 61 key Kronos actions are both described identically as "Natural Touch" semiweighted boards, yet those two feel different from each other. So it seems that using the same description doesn't necessarily mean they are using the same keybed.

Originally Posted By: ando
Boy, that would be disappointing if the action is the same one as SP170. Unfortunately actions are the achilles heel of Korg. It's not that they aren't playable, just not a really satisfying feeling under the fingers. Aside from that Korg offers a lot for a good price.

It's so subjective, some people really like the RH3, and someone in another forum just mentioned they like the SP170 keybed better than the RH3. But, personally, I tend to agree, the Korg weighted actions are playable, but they have nothing really competitive with the best from Yamaha and Roland.

Originally Posted By: JFP
if Casio manages to put a very good keybed with ivory / three sensor / graded into their low cost piano's - why couldn't Korg come up with

I'm always wary of the "If X can do it, why can't Y" arguments. A lot of companies have developed their own proprietary technologies, sometimes covered by patents. Or they just have expertise in different areas. Or some may manufacture an item or component themselves, while others may farm it out to subcontractors, and either decision may affect what designs are feasible or cost-effective for them. The fact that different companies do different things well is what keeps them all going. ;-)
Posted by: dewster

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 10:36 AM

I added the Korg KROME "German D Grand" to the begging section of the DPBSD.

Quote:
Piano sounds are critically important for nearly every keyboard instrument. KROME borrows the impressive "German D Grand" that was created for the KRONOS flagship. In addition to the rich sound of 88 full-length unlooped stereo samples, damper resonance is also included.

...

KROME features three types of electric pianos. Eight velocity levels have been used to ensure faithful response to the player's expression.

I wonder if/how it will differ from the Kronos AP? And I wonder why they talk about 8 velocity layers in the EPs but not the AP?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 10:42 AM

Originally Posted By: dewster
And I wonder why they talk about 8 velocity layers in the EPs but not the AP?

You really have to ask? ;-)

If 88 keys of unlooped samples in 8 layers took 4.7 gb in the Kronos, I would guess 4 layers in the 2+ gb version in the Krome.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
If 88 keys of unlooped samples in 8 layers took 4.7 gb in the Kronos, I would guess 4 layers in the 2+ gb version in the Krome.

That would kind of suck, but then again I suppose it would be par for the DP course (where manufacturers never met a sample set they couldn't somehow make even smaller).

It's weird how DP product announcements are almost uniformly a massive let down.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
It's weird how DP product announcements are almost uniformly a massive let down.

This is a budget model, after all.

It has 3.8 gb total PCM memory. 2.8 gb is for the piano, and since it is still unstretched and unlooped, the only way I can think of for them to have reduced its footprint from the Kronos' 4.7 would be to cut the # of vel layers.

BTW, 600 mb is dedicated to the EPs.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:37 PM

IMO, the best thing about the Kronos was the semi modeled EP engine. Too bad it isn't making it over. Hopefully an SV2 will retain the EP engine of the Kronos.

The Kronos turned out to be a big POS for me. I just sold it and really don't think I would consider another Korg unless they dramatically improve their build quality and QC.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
BTW, 600 mb is dedicated to the EPs.

With multiple EPs @ 8 layers each I'm thinking they're probably kind of hacked up.

600 MB
/ 2 (stereo)
/ 2 (16 bit samples)
/ 8 layers
/ 3 EPs
/ 44100 (samples per second)
/ 88 notes

= a whopping 1.6 seconds per sample. Meh.

"Lavish amounts of PCM memory have been used for this purpose..." Ha!
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:52 PM

.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 12:52 PM

Dewster- thank you for working through that. i've never seen the math behind this.....

so if the American Steinway for Ivory II has 49 GB of data and 20 velocity layers- for one piano.... What would that be in comparison? i think they are 24 bit samples.

Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
IMO, the best thing about the Kronos was the semi modeled EP engine. Too bad it isn't making it over. Hopefully an SV2 will retain the EP engine of the Kronos.

Yes, the more I learn about the Krome, the more I still see a market for an SV2, with the full 8-layer pianos and the full EP modeling. (Maybe the CX3 engine too.)

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
The Kronos turned out to be a big POS for me.

What I'm finding most intriguing about it at the moment is the 2.0 OS that allows you to load your own streaming samples. Someone in another forum has already loaded a couple of Ivory pianos onto it. Interesting possibilities.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
BTW, 600 mb is dedicated to the EPs.

With multiple EPs @ 8 layers each I'm thinking they're probably kind of hacked up.

600 MB
/ 2 (stereo)
/ 2 (16 bit samples)
/ 8 layers
/ 3 EPs
/ 44100 (samples per second)
/ 88 notes

= a whopping 1.6 seconds per sample. Meh.

"Lavish amounts of PCM memory have been used for this purpose..." Ha!

The original Rhodes and Wurli pianos were mono (sometimes with stereo fx), so it's a safe bet the samples are mono. So assuming the rest of your math is right, that's 3.2 seconds per sample. That's not bad, I think.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: bfb
so if the American Steinway for Ivory II has 49 GB of data and 20 velocity layers- for one piano.... What would that be in comparison? i think they are 24 bit samples.

24 GB
/ 2 (stereo)
/ 3 (24 bit samples)
/ 20 layers
/ 44100 samples per second (?)
/ 88 notes

= 51 seconds per sample (average).

Lower notes (and possibly higher velocities) would get the lion's share. Pretty respectable.

I think you need at least 30 seconds average before it's anywhere near right (solo recording quality). Too bad no one has attempted MP3 or similar compression instead of the wholesale violence of looping / stretching / limited velocity layers.

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
The original Rhodes and Wurli pianos were mono (sometimes with stereo fx), so it's a safe bet the samples are mono. So assuming the rest of your math is right, that's 3.2 seconds per sample. That's not bad, I think.

As these things go suppose (but the bar is incredibly low).

I was probably just born in the wrong century.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster

24 GB
/ 2 (stereo)
/ 3 (24 bit samples)
/ 20 layers
/ 44100 samples per second (?)
/ 88 notes

= 51 seconds per sample (average).

Don't you also have to take into account the damper resonance samples, the sympathetic resonance samples, the key-off samples etc.? 20 layers might actually result in 30-100 samples per note.
Posted by: dewster

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Don't you also have to take into account the damper resonance samples, the sympathetic resonance samples, the key-off samples etc.? 20 layers might actually result in 30-100 samples per note.

From the Synthology site:

Quote:
With a 49GB library, Ivory II American Concert D is the largest single piano in the Ivory family. This American Steinway possesses a naturally long sustain, which is captured in its entirety to the final decay, some of the notes ringing longer than two minutes. Also included are up to 20 velocity levels, with more soft pedal samples, and more release samples to capture more detail than any Ivory instrument before.

Ivory II American Concert D is powered by the award-winning Ivory II engine, and contains the full compliment of Ivory II’s features, foremost being our acclaimed Harmonic Resonance Modeling for the realization of true Sympathetic String Resonance. Custom designed by Synthogy DSP guru, George Taylor, this technology does not rely upon triggering additional samples or use ordinary sine waves. Rather, notes struck that are harmonically related excite the actual complex overtones of the notes that are being held, in the same manner that undamped strings resonate in a real acoustic piano. Together with the new American Concert D samples, the results are simply stunning, the culmination of Synthogy’s most powerful technology, with our most advanced sampling techniques.

Key off samples are generally quite short, but yes that kind of thing would add a bit to the overall sample set size. From the above it seems they don't rely on raw samples per se in order to do the sympathetic resonance - which is quite interesting. They do have separate soft pedal samples, and that would definitely cut into the per note sample time somewhat. They claim to sample all the way out to silence, something I think you can do with ~50 seconds of time per sample (on average) - the very lowest notes might take ~2 minutes, the highest ~10 seconds.

I sure wish we were talking about a DP with this kind of sample set rather than software. Korg's idea of "lavish" is 600MB for 3 EPs - perhaps just a poor translation from the Japanese? At 200 MB per EP that's ~250 times smaller than the Ivory II piano! It's a step in the right direction, but even their largest AP sample sets are ~10 times smaller than Ivory II.

It's like finding only Razor scooters in the "Interplanetary Rocket Ship" product category at Amazon.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 05:54 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Korg's idea of "lavish" is 600MB for 3 EPs - perhaps just a poor translation from the Japanese? At 200 MB per EP that's ~250 times smaller than the Ivory II piano! It's a step in the right direction, but even their largest AP sample sets are ~10 times smaller than Ivory II.

They are lavish compared to any amount of piano/EP samples ever in a $999 (61 key) or $1599 (88 key) workstation (or, for that matter, probably any self-contained keyboard ever made, except for the Kronos and maybe some of the libraries available for the Motif XF).

Yamaha MOX is a bit more expensive, and has 355 mb of PCM samples total.

Krome predecessor, the M50, has 256 mb of PCM samples total.

By these standards, 200 mb for a single EP or 2.8 gigs for a single piano in a board in the Krome price range is lavish.

But you know all this. ;-)

It is dirt cheap for Ivory to use huge samples because they are running on cheap commodity hardware and OS (plus their own product has a manufacturing cost of virtually zero). Yet you still can't put together a portable Ivory based system with Krome's features for the price of a Krome, even if you are wiling to deal with the trade-offs of using a computer based system.
Posted by: dmd

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 06:57 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
What I'm finding most intriguing about it at the moment is the 2.0 OS that allows you to load your own streaming samples. Someone in another forum has already loaded a couple of Ivory pianos onto it. Interesting possibilities.


I am unable to find anything which confirms that capability. Do you have a link for this ?
Posted by: Emeritus

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 07:19 PM

Check the following link and look for burningbusch:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2435996/3
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Emeritus
Check the following link and look for burningbusch:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2435996/3

Right.

To be clear, I'm not saying you can load Ivory into the Kronos, you can't. But if you have Ivory running on your computer, there are tools that will allow you to sample it and create basically your own scaled-down version that you can load into your Kronos. It will give you a piano of similar character, but no, you're not going to get the 18 layers, advanced resonance features, etc. of the original.
Posted by: dmd

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
To be clear, I'm not saying you can load Ivory into the Kronos, you can't. But if you have Ivory running on your computer, there are tools that will allow you to sample it and create basically your own scaled-down version that you can load into your Kronos. It will give you a piano of similar character, but no, you're not going to get the 18 layers, advanced resonance features, etc. of the original.


Oh, that is it, Wow ... You had me all excited.

Wouldn't the native sound of the DP have to be pretty bad for you to want a watered down version of another product instead ?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: dmd
Wouldn't the native sound of the DP have to be pretty bad for you to want a watered down version of another product instead ?

Not at all. Even a very good piano sound can be surpassed, and even a "watered down" 49 gb piano should be able to give you some darn nice results, and it wouldn't mean the standard piano sounds are necessarily bad.

Also, there's just the matter of personal taste, preferring the character of a different sound. After all, people can prefer a Steinway grand over a Yamaha grand (or even over another Steinway) without either one being considered "pretty bad," right?
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 09:20 PM

Dewster, thanks for your fine math work on my question...

You know i have this vision of a digital keyboard controller that has a built in docking station for a ultrabook, basically on the center top of the board where most of the controls are usually located on today's DP's. you would flip up the display and it would become the brains of the keyboard. It would obviously be able to handle huge sample programs, and would somehow negate all the cables etc. An additional feature would be the ability to slide in/remove a light weight action for gigging, and a real piano action for studio/home use.

Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 10:03 PM

The exception to what I said above about "any self-contained keyboard ever made" is a board that I occasionally forget about, the Crumar Baby Grand Pro. I'd love to hear of some first-hand experiences with that one. It's not quite what bfb wants, but it's kind of along those lines... essentially a controller tied to a self-contained embedded Windows system (which should be more solidly reliable than a laptop approach), into which you can load your choice of high quality VST software pianos.

It seems to me like it would be the most stable and most ergonomically convenient way to get the best piano sound in a live environment. At 44 pounds and $2979 (plus the cost of the VST you select), the weight and price seem to be very competitive. If all you care about is a piano sound, it seems like that would compare very favorably to, say, a Nord Piano, a Roland RD-700NX, Yamaha CP5, or Kawai MP10.

Has anyone here bought one?
Posted by: torhu

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
49 gb

Allow me to educate you a little there. In all likelyhood, you meant 49 GB.

Because there is no such thing as "gb". But there is "GB". G is giga, which means billion, or actually 1024x1024x1024 in this context. "B" is byte(s).

By the way, "mb" has a meaning, which is millibits. But since you can't subdivide a bit, mb is completely bogus. So whenever I see that, I have to assume you mean either "Mb" or "MB". An MB is eight times as much as an Mb. So it's still very ambiguous.

That's all, thanks for your attention thumb
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 10:59 PM

You are correct of course, and thank you for the clarification, however I think we all knew what Scott meant.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:01 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
49 gb

Allow me to educate you a little there. In all likelyhood, you meant 49 GB.

Because there is no such thing as "gb". But there is "GB".


yes, like many on the net, I'm not always so attentive to capitalization. ;-)

However, since, as you say, there is no such thing as "gb" at least the potential for ambiguity was minimal!
Posted by: torhu

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:14 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
yes, like many on the net, I'm not always so attentive to capitalization. ;-)

Oh, but you are. You even write "VST" instead of "vst". If you weren't, I wouldn't bother posting what I did. Some people demonstratively avoid capitalizing the first word in each sentenze, even though they correctly capitalize everything else. It's much slower to read text like that, because your brain stumbles a bit every time it sees that unconvential capitalization. At least my brain does. Every time I see "gb" I go "WTF, that doesn't make sense" for half a second, then I continue reading.

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
However, since, as you say, there is no such thing as "gb" at least the potential for ambiguity was minimal!
I'll just start calling you scottbutnotthatonetheother then, as the potential for ambiguity is minimal! grin
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu

Allow me to educate you a little there. In all likelyhood, you meant 49 GB.

Because there is no such thing as "gb". But there is "GB". G is giga, which means billion, or actually 1024x1024x1024 in this context. "B" is byte(s).

By the way, "mb" has a meaning, which is millibits. But since you can't subdivide a bit, mb is completely bogus. So whenever I see that, I have to assume you mean either "Mb" or "MB". An MB is eight times as much as an Mb. So it's still very ambiguous.

That's all, thanks for your attention thumb


Hey Sheldon Cooper, welcome to Piano World!
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
yes, like many on the net, I'm not always so attentive to capitalization. ;-)

Oh, but you are.

I'm usually pretty attentive to that stuff, but I assure you, I get lazy sometimes. ;-)

In the old days, I do remember that confusion would occur between kilobits and kilobytes, both of which were in common use. In the context of sound samples, I don't think anyone ever talks about gigabits, so I doubt I really caused any confusion, but I'll try to remember to always capitalize GB!
Posted by: ando

Re: Korg Krome - 09/06/12 11:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: torhu

Allow me to educate you a little there. In all likelyhood, you meant 49 GB.

Because there is no such thing as "gb". But there is "GB". G is giga, which means billion, or actually 1024x1024x1024 in this context. "B" is byte(s).

By the way, "mb" has a meaning, which is millibits. But since you can't subdivide a bit, mb is completely bogus. So whenever I see that, I have to assume you mean either "Mb" or "MB". An MB is eight times as much as an Mb. So it's still very ambiguous.

That's all, thanks for your attention thumb


Hey Sheldon Cooper, welcome to Piano World!


Haha, I was thinking the same thing! grin

Torhu, you'd better be some sort of genius if you are going to go around quibbling over things like that. wink
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 01:17 AM

I was going to suggest Torhu did something else Ando ....
Posted by: dmd

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was going to suggest Torhu did something else Ando ....



"did" ?

Wouldn't that imply that he had already "done" it ?

I think "do" would have been a better choice. smile
Posted by: Providence

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 06:46 AM

Originally Posted By: torhu
Some people demonstratively avoid capitalizing the first word in each sentenze, even though they correctly capitalize everything else.


I am really sorry if this is a silly question, but what's a "sentenze"?
Posted by: torhu

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
In the old days, I do remember that confusion would occur between kilobits and kilobytes, both of which were in common use. In the context of sound samples, I don't think anyone ever talks about gigabits, so I doubt I really caused any confusion, but I'll try to remember to always capitalize GB!

Thanks, much appreciated. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that's used to these kinds of units and prefixes. Mostly from electronics and computing in my case. While an "m" and an "M" is the same letter normally, in this context they're instead used as two distinct symbols. So while writing "mb" as a short for megabytes seems natural, it looks weird when you're used to "m" = milli and "b" = bit.

I don't have a problem with people writing "megs" and "gigs", though. Although I mostly use MB and GB myself.
Posted by: ando

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was going to suggest Torhu did something else Ando ....



"did" ?

Wouldn't that imply that he had already "done" it ?

I think "do" would have been a better choice. smile


"Did" = subjunctive verb in this case. It's in common use.
Posted by: dmd

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 06:28 PM

Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was going to suggest Torhu did something else Ando ....



"did" ?

Wouldn't that imply that he had already "done" it ?

I think "do" would have been a better choice. smile


"Did" = subjunctive verb in this case. It's in common use.


Really !

I do not recall ever hearing it used like that before.

But, since I am now advised of its' common usage I will look for it.
Posted by: ando

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was going to suggest Torhu did something else Ando ....



"did" ?

Wouldn't that imply that he had already "done" it ?

I think "do" would have been a better choice. smile


"Did" = subjunctive verb in this case. It's in common use.


Really !

I do not recall ever hearing it used like that before.

But, since I am now advised of its' common usage I will look for it.



American English has a lot less use of the subjunctive than British or Australian English, so it's not too surprising that you haven't encountered it. A couple of hundred years ago it was everywhere, but the subjunctive has been gradually dying out - which is a pity because it is a very useful tool in language. Our language is much less capable of nuance and subtlety now.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Korg Krome - 09/07/12 08:33 PM

Come on Ando ... Americans don't speak english
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 09/08/12 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: dewster
It's weird how DP product announcements are almost uniformly a massive let down.

This is a budget model, after all.

It has 3.8 gb total PCM memory. 2.8 gb is for the piano, and since it is still unstretched and unlooped, the only way I can think of for them to have reduced its footprint from the Kronos' 4.7 would be to cut the # of vel layers.

BTW, 600 mb is dedicated to the EPs.


I enjoyed the demos as my favorite piano sounds tended to be the samples I had on my Korg Sg Rack. I view the 2.8gb as a big improvement over the 15mb! from back in the 1990's.
To me the 61 key model seems to be the better deal as I would expect the spread in price to be $600 from the 61 to 88.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 09/09/12 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Come on Ando ... Americans don't speak english


and you guys do? crikey!
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/19/12 04:55 PM

I was reading the manual and parameter guide, and it seems that, although the Krome will accept incoming MIDI signals in Combi mode, the chosen timbre must also be connected to the Krome's keyboard at the same time - i.e. no local-off for a specific timbre (such as a grand piano). This rules out playing two independent parts at the same time - one via MIDI and one via the Krome keyboard. Of course, the Krome is 16-part multitimbral, but those parts are either all to be accessed via MIDI, or layered/split internally.

Of course, I may have missed something, but if I've read the info correctly, one would either need to buy the 88-key version for playing from a hammer action board, or hook up the 61/73 note version to another weighted controller and do without simultaneous additional sounds played from the Krome's keybed.

I have been seriously considering the Krome, but given this limitation, the lukewarm response to the inclusion of the NH action in the 88-note Krome, and the lack of an organ/drawbar section, I'm wondering if it would be better to hold off and see if an SV-2 might still be in the pipeline.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 03:34 AM

NH sucks, tried it yesterday in a shop on another Korg model. Why does korg keep on crippling its products with such crappy keybeds ?! Even the synth action on a Jupiter 80 that was nearby was much better ( the best synth action I've played so far anyway, very nice!). Krome is out of my list, thanks to the keys. Way to go Korg...

Still waiting for the Casio x50 series to try somewhere...
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 08:32 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
I was reading the manual and parameter guide, and it seems that, although the Krome will accept incoming MIDI signals in Combi mode, the chosen timbre must also be connected to the Krome's keyboard at the same time - i.e. no local-off for a specific timbre (such as a grand piano).

If you want a timbre to be triggered only from an external keyboard, normally, the way to do it is to simply assign that timbre to the MIDI channel that your second keyboard is transmitting on (which, of course, needs to be different from the MIDI channel the Krome itself is assigned to... and it also need to be a channel you have not designated as Global). I would be very surprised if the Krome did not work this way.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
NH sucks, tried it yesterday in a shop on another Korg model.

Although the SP170S is also listed as having a NH keybed, I have not seen confirmation that that the SP170S and Krome 88 keybeds are identical. (In the past, Korg has used the same "semi-weighted Natural Touch" terminology to describe both the M50 and Kronos 61-key keybeds, and they do not feel the same, so identical terminology is not definitive.)

But if I had to guess, yeah, I would bet that the Krome 88 will use the same keybed as the SP170S. And it does make sense to use that, because at least at the moment, that and RH3 are the only weighted actions Korg has, and the SP170S keybed weighs less (and presumably costs less).

It's not the greatest action, but it's not bad. (I've even seen some people prefer it to the RH3.) Considering that a big part of the Krome 88's appeal is the low weight, I don't think anyone else is making a keyboard that weighs as little that has any action that most agree is better. (And I wouldn't offer up the new Casios until you play them.)
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I was reading the manual and parameter guide, and it seems that, although the Krome will accept incoming MIDI signals in Combi mode, the chosen timbre must also be connected to the Krome's keyboard at the same time - i.e. no local-off for a specific timbre (such as a grand piano).

If you want a timbre to be triggered only from an external keyboard, normally, the way to do it is to simply assign that timbre to the MIDI channel that your second keyboard is transmitting on (which, of course, needs to be different from the MIDI channel the Krome itself is assigned to... and it also need to be a channel you have not designated as Global). I would be very surprised if the Krome did not work this way.

Ah... that makes sense. Thanks Scott. That puts the 61-key Krome back on the map for me.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 02:42 PM

IMHO even the current px3 Casio keybed is better than the NH in the sp170. Let's hope that the NH in the Krome is indeed a better revision of that keybed. They will appear at roughly the same time in the shops, so that would be a good time to compare. Of topic; after trying the NH and other keybeds in the shop I realized how much I appreciate the RH in my MP6. Therefore I'm now 99% sure I will forgo the new Casios and Krome stuff and aim for the RH II range, despite inferior piano sounds. I will use my software pianos a bit more if I get bored to much with the KAWAI presets. Perhaps a 61 Krome somewhere at a later stadium...who knows. For the keybed, no Krome 88 for me. Can't connect to the sound if I can't connect with the keys at all.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Perhaps a 61 Krome somewhere at a later stadium...

A wonderful Freudian slip! I hope the crowd goes wild!!! wink
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 03:30 PM

Not being an English native speaker I miss the point completely , but don't explain; if in English my sentence was hilarious that's fine with me (although I don't understand myself). Probably have to work on my English writing a bit...

On topic : if more people are interested in a 61 version for the korg sounds ; any chance there will be a Kronos/Krome module ? Roland launched the integra module, so perhaps other follow ? Wishfull thinking , I know...
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Korg Krome - 09/20/12 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Not being an English native speaker I miss the point completely , but don't explain; if in English my sentence was hilarious that's fine with me (although I don't understand myself). Probably have to work on my English writing a bit...

Your English is excellent, but yeah, there was a funny translation issue there. You meant "at a later stage" not "at a later stadium."

"Stage" has multiple meanings. One of them, though not the one you meant, refers to a place where you perform. Since a stadium is also a place you can perform, I suspect it was the double meaning of "stage" that threw you.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/25/12 12:17 PM

Korg Krome 73 on order. I decided that the 73 was the best compromise. I can use it on the top tier, and (if the acoustic pianos are good enough) MIDI it up to one of my weighted boards, but also play EPs and other patches on its own keyboard. And I won't have yet another weighted 88 cluttering up the place. If I don't get on with it, it should be pretty easy to pass on. I'll give some feedback when it's in my hands.
Posted by: Kbeaumont

Re: Korg Krome - 09/25/12 01:25 PM

I have been really considering the Krome 73 to sit on top of my MOX8.
I want the 73 keys because there will always be that situation where I just want to bring one light board and I have never really been happy with 64 keys in a ROMpler.

In a VA Synth or Organ its fine, Acoustic pianos & EP's no.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 03:11 PM

The Krome 73 arrived yesterday evening. I've only given it the briefest once-over, so please take these comments as preliminary and subject to revision.

First of all, it's light without feeling flimsy. The touchscreen is easy to read and works reasonably well, although the virtual sliders don't always respond first time. The layout is typical Korg. As with Roland, I would sooner have mod/pitchbend wheels rather than joystick, but it's not something to lose sleep over.

Piano sounds are the principal reason I wanted to give this a try. The one main piano voice is quite nice and plays well from a weighted keyboard via MIDI (I wouldn't want to play piano from the Krome 73's own action as its very synth-like). It changes from mellow to bright a little abruptly at the upper end of the velocity scale, but is quite expressive, if a tad short on character. The absence of looping allows for a very natural-sounding decay. Damper resonance is there but is quite subdued by default (I don't know how adjustable this is). There doesn't appear to be any sympathetic resonance. Overall, the piano is very usable, and I would hazard a guess that it would work well in ensemble settings. I have only briefly compared it with the built-in sound on my Numa Piano. The Korg's piano seems to connect slightly better with the Numa's action than the built-in sound does, and sounds a little more open and high-fidelity. I will be very interested to do the same test using the Kawai MP6 as a controller and compare/contrast the MP's piano to the Korg.

EPs are not quite the slam-dunk I was expecting. There seem to be one or two very nice Rhodes voices in the Korg that seem quite faithful to the original, but I'm not sure that they surpass what's already in the MP6. It would be a tough call against the Nord Rhodes, too. Essentially, I need to spend more time with the Korg and play around with FX and other adjustable parameters. So far, the Wurlitzers have not wowed me. They seem to lack sufficient timbre variation. I think the Numa's wurli is better. Again, though, I've done no tweaking.

Organs are not really what the Krome is about, although if you like the kind of CX-3 rock organ tone that is somewhat reminiscent of Mr. Emerson's Hammond sound, it's there in spades. If this board had sported drawbar tones and real sliders, it would be a great all-rounder, but even without, it's usable as long as B3 emulation is not your main requirement. As others have pointed out elsewhere, there are a lot of organ tones with percussion. Whether the percussion is editable, I don't know, but at least it triggers correctly on chords. [EDIT: I've discovered that a number of the organ sounds have percussion controlled via one of the two switches above the joystick.]

Other sounds are vast in number and cover all bases. I've only flicked through a handful, but many seem to me very similar to what was in my old X-50 (same names, too), which regurgitated what was already in the later Triton series, and have since apparently been at the core of the M50's offerings. I'm sure the Krome's engine will help these old patches to sound clearer and more vibrant, but Korg certainly gets five stars for recycling!

I really need to spend more time before deciding whether this is a keeper or not. I'm also quite a critical judge when it comes to piano sounds, as these are at the heart of what I do live. But for what it is and at this price point, I don't think there's anything to touch it - although one must bear in mind that if you need the Krome with a weighted action, it'll set you back $1,600, and that's twice what the new Casio PX-350 costs (which I would also love to try). Also, there is nothing out there in hardware, other than the Krome's big brother, the Kronos, that offers fully unlooped samples. When I have the time to set up a side-by-side comparison, it'll be very interesting. I've noticed before that notes played in isolation can sound great on a DP, but when you start to play properly, the sound does not always respond and "gel" as desired.
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 04:25 PM

Hi- nice review on the Krome. I played that also for the first time this morning along with the PX350.

I tried the Krome 88 and I think- i would have to go back- that the action was better than the SP170 which was also on display.

However- because I would be buying the Krome for non-piano sounds as well, I would likely go for the 61 key and pay $850 (after 15% coupon)

I would imagine I would like the pianos a lot as I loved my Korg SG Rack. I tried a few organs- would have to look up the name and enjoyed them.

What do you think of the action itself?
Posted by: Melodialworks Music

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
The touchscreen is easy to read and works reasonably well, although the virtual sliders don't always respond first time.


You may need to calibrate the screen.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
You may need to calibrate the screen.

Gosh, going hi-tech always seems to make you have to work harder! wink
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Possum P95
HI played that also for the first time this morning along with the PX350.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts comparing the main pianos in the Krome and the PX-350, and how the additional sounds stack up.

Quote:
I tried the Krome 88 and I think- i would have to go back- that the action was better than the SP170 which was also on display.

That's good news.

Quote:
What do you think of the action itself?

I've played it very little, since I connected via MIDI straight away (I knew that were I to use it live, it would be from a weighted board). The little I've played on the 73's own keyboard, I would have to say that it feels much like most recent Korgs I've touched, namely a light, reasonably serviceable action that has problems with black notes if you try to trigger them too near the pivot point. I think the Nord Electro (particularly version 2) has a much better action for a non-hammer action semi-weighted board.
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Possum P95
HI played that also for the first time this morning along with the PX350.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts comparing the main pianos in the Krome and the PX-350, and how the additional sounds stack up.

.


I would probably have to A/B them again and compare the Krome 88- but I enjoyed them both. I believe the decay felt longer on the PX350 and I enjoyed the EQ settings on them.

I used to have a Korg Trtion Le from 2002-2010 (traded it in for my P95) and wouldn't mind having another Korg workstation. I have used many of them that friends had, from the M1-T3-Trinity-Triton and so forth.
There was a particular combo on the Korg Triton called trancy euphoria which I was wondering would be on the Krome.

Could you let me know how you felt about some of the other Krome sounds? I think its a steal at $850

If I did purchase a PX350, I of course would mainly be using it for the acoustic pianos. Besides the main fender rhodes (which may of may not be similar to the one on the 130) there was an EP called Mellow which I also liked a lot. I did not care much for the Hammond sounds.

I am fairly confident I would probably use the non-AP Krome sounds more than the PX non AP sounds.

I found the action on the Krome better than the triton but liked the Roland Juno Gi's action better. The Gi also has the built in digital recorder- as opposed to a sequencer.

As it stands, I don't think I would upgrade DP's unless I unload the P95- don't really have room for 3. The Krome would be different though.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 06:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Possum P95
Could you let me know how you felt about some of the other Krome sounds? I think its a steal at $850

Well, I'd be interested to know if anyone manages to get one for $850. Given that GC/MF exclude Korg from their coupon offers, requiring you to phone/call in for a quote, it's not a guarantee that they will provide that level of discount, particularly as it's a brand new instrument.

As to the sounds, I've not had enough time to go through them. There are a gazillion of them! What I have heard screams "Korg," if you know what I mean. laugh

Korg have long been good at using FX to their full advantage in their Romplers, and I think the Krome is no exception. The sounds I've heard are competent, and frequently lush. I could imagine that they'll work fine in a lot of genres. Of course, this is also a workstation (a whole side of the Krome that I'll probably never get into), and so you could build vast soundscapes with what's in there. It can also be used as a VST from your PC.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/29/12 11:36 PM

Update 1:
OK, so bypassing the EQ section seriously improved the main piano sound. It had been factory set to have a very dominant bass. Now it plays very sweetly.

At the moment, it is not possible to depress a key without a note sounding. I don't know if that's editable or not - not a major issue, though.

Polyphony is only just adequate. If you sustain a low bass note (with pedal) and play a repeated motif in the right hand, eventually the bass note cuts off abruptly. It allows around thirty notes before this happens. I doubt if this is much worse than many DPs.

Editing is very deep, if you take into account Combi editing as well. It's a bit much for me, and I'm having difficulty working out simple things like how to transfer a Program sound into Combi complete with its original effects. I hate menu diving. If I can just set up the few patches I need, I'll be happy.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 12:28 AM

Thanks for the early reviews VP!

Interested to read that the EPs weren't quite the game-changer you were expecting. Have your efforts to edit the sound changed this opinion a great deal?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 01:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Thanks for the early reviews VP!

Interested to read that the EPs weren't quite the game-changer you were expecting. Have your efforts to edit the sound changed this opinion a great deal?

Cheers,
James
x

You're welcome, James!

Well, to be fair, it wasn't really the EPs that I was expecting to be the game-changer, but more the APs (with their allocated 2+ gigs). While the APs are incrementally better than what's in my other gigging boards, they aren't so drastically better that I would suggest everyone rush out and trade in their current DPs for a Krome. However, they do have a more natural envelope and feel more organic. I'd like to hear them with other instruments to get a clearer picture.

As for the EPs, I haven't really spent much time on them yet. Pretty much the whole evening was taken up trying to figure out the basics of setting up Combis so that I could play piano from my weighted boards, and other sounds on the Krome. The effects routing is really quite complex. I will take the time to go through the EPs in detail soon. What I did notice is that the dry Rhodes sounded pretty much identical to that in the Numa. I think the Rhodes patches will scrub up very nicely, but of course, live control is a little more limited than in a Nord. However, there are four assignable knobs and two switches, so most needs should be covered; the limitations being that you have to preselect the effects you want to assign, and the factory assignments aren't always consistent - or what you want.

There are actually a lot of Rhodes sounds on board - Mark I, II and V in all sorts of configurations. It would be wrong of me to pronounce on these until I've spent some time with them, but given that the basic real (original) Rhodes sound is actually quite plain, a lot is down to the quality of the effects.

In my initial whizz through the sounds, it was the wurli that surprised me. I didn't come across a patch that sounded like any EP200A I've played. But I need to take the time to strip them down to audition the raw sounds before marking that as a fail.

Unfortunately, this is not the kind of intuitive board that means you can spend an hour two on it and have a clear picture of its capabilities. I expect a lot of people who own M50s etc. will have no problem adapting, but I have a rather deep dislike of computer interfaces on keyboards, and it takes me a while to get just the basics sorted out on boards like this. And then, once I've got the sounds programmed that I need, I tend to leave well alone.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 02:33 PM

Wurli update. The picture isn't quite as bad as I painted it. But the Wurlitzer samples seem slightly muffled and lacking the tonal range of the real thing. That is surprising, given that the EPs are touted as having about 600 megs dedicated to them. I think the Numa is definitely better in this respect, and possibly the Kawai MP6 (although I would need to compare them side-by-side).
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 06:06 PM

Could you also please post your opinioins on the B3's? Some of them I really liked- perhaps more than the 350's offerings in that department.

-In the past it seems I have had luck with the GC/MF coupons when calling even when the websites do not take them.

My initial impression of this board is that is of excellent value. I am wondering what I would use though for recording it- perhaps a usb audio interface for vocals as the keyboard itself seems to be a DAW interace
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 08:01 PM

Possum, I'll post back when I've had a chance to give the organs a good workout. For now, I can say that they sound very "Korg." The annoying thing is that they've gone overboard on 888 percussion instead of providing a good selection of different drawbar registrations. This seems to be to make every patch as punchy as possible rather than provide the variety that a gigging keyboard player really needs. Oddly, some of the patches have switchable percussion, and others have it built into the sound.

I think that a few of these patches will be perfectly usable for me, and some of them sound very good as vintage emulations. It's not a clonewheel, and doesn't provide the depth of sound that well-modeled drawbar organs have, but there's enough there to work with.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 08:28 PM

So the organs are PCM, not clonewheel?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 09:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
So the organs are PCM, not clonewheel?

I assume so, although on some patches they add a second clump of "drawbars" controlled by one of the switches. This is presumably done via the second oscillator (although I've not checked to verify this). I've just been testing a bunch of the organ patches, and I have to say that, if you accept the limitations, many of them sound very good.

For a mid-range instrument, this is turning out to be generally very good. I wasn't expecting flagship performance for $1,200, and as that is $1,000 less than an Electro, it's not bad to have a grand piano that rivals those offered by Nord, excellent Rhodes, passable (just) Wurlitzer, good organs, and a slew of orchestral and synth sounds that are much more usable than Clavia's - plus full workstation features, if you're into that kind of thing.

A note with regard to the AP. I think they've shortened decay times a tad to allow for the absence of looping, but, overall, I think it's going to be very playable. It's quite clearly sampled, as there are a couple of notes where the strings sound a little old!
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 09:38 PM

So it's a keeper then?

At least until Clavia release a new set of large-sized EPs, leading you to sell the Krome and buy an NE4. wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 09/30/12 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
So it's a keeper then?

Not sure yet, James. It really depends on whether I can make it work sufficiently well in a two-keyboard rig - and without drawbars.

Quote:
At least until Clavia release a new set of large-sized EPs, leading you to sell the Krome and buy an NE4. wink


Am I that transparent? wink
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 10/10/12 10:31 PM

Just confirmed that the main AP & EPs offer 8 velocity levels (pretty sure they are all unblended). I haven't spent time listening for stretching yet.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Korg Krome - 10/10/12 11:44 PM

Thanks VP!

8 velocity levels for the EP is pretty good!

James
x
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 07:23 AM

i have been studying this thread and others carefully regarding the Krome. it seems to get a lot of criticism from the gearheads (who view is as an R&B/funk oriented board), but it also seems that for the price- assuming the action is playable- this really offers an outstanding array of piano samples in a very lightweight and affordable performance board. and options for layering sounds and instruments for band-oriented mixes, etc.

if i look at it mainly as something lightweight to lug around- seems like a very attractive option to the Nord Piano ($3K) and the Rolands/ Kawais. and a step up in sample quality from the Privias...

So looking at this mainly as a performance piano(s)- not a bad idea?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 10:29 AM

bfb, I would not consider the action in the 61 & 73 versions truly playable for piano - for that you should really be looking at the 88.

I think it is a viable alternative to the Nord instruments. You only get one main piano with multiple variations, plus a bunch of lesser "rompler" pianos, but I think the German Grand is up there with Nord's Grand Lady D, and has more tonal range. For Rhodes, there are some great patches covering all the essential variants, and I think they sound and play better than those in the Nord. Wurlitzer is passable, but I prefer the Wurli in other boards, including Nord's. Organs are plentiful but can't compete with clonewheels. I wouldn't buy this board for the solo synths - the Casio XW-P1 runs rings around it - but they (and the pads, orchestral sounds etc.) are still more usable than Nord's (except in the Stage) because you can edit them easily.

As for its performance credentials, there are sufficient performance controls to be able to tweak the essential parameters live, but you probably need to do a bit of editing beforehand. Due to rehearsal cancellations, I haven't been able to hear how the Krome holds up in an ensemble setting, but hopefully that will happen next week. I'm also debating whether to risk using it on a gig at the end of next week.
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 02:08 PM

thanks voxpops...keep us posted..

yeah, i was definitely thinking about the 88. i know 73 keys is perfectly acceptable for piano, but there is something about those lost keys that gives me the creeps. So my interest is as a portable but professional sounding digital piano...

the Krome 88 weighs 32.4 lbs and is priced @ $1700. The only other workstation w/ 88 keys around that price/weight looks to be the Yamaha MOX8 at $1700 and 33 lbs. i wonder if its piano sample fares nearly as well..

there are a lot of stage piano options in that price range...

Roland 300NX $1800 38 lbs (good piano sample but "meh" on the action)
Korg SV-1 $1700 45 lbs (outdated piano sample w/ Kronos/Krome in marketplace)
Kawai MP6 $1500 47 lbs(no opinion- but seems like a possibility)
Yamaha CP300 $2000 72 lbs(YIKES!!... but then i have a P250 so i already know this..!)
Kawai EP3 $1100 46 lbs(interesting..should this be measured against p-105 and PX330?)
Yamaha CP50 $1700 46 lbs (nice samples but viewed as poor cousin to CP5?)

and of course one really should kick the tires on the P-105 and PX-150/350 if looking in this lightweight digital piano/keyboard arena- at $599-799 respectively

but it seems - on paper because i haven't really played several of these including the Krome - that the Krome stands up well against these DP's if the action is acceptable. should be favorable on piano samples (of course, individual tastes override any analysis), weight, and the versatility of a workstation without the big bucks....

it seems intriguing. Do workstations hold up as well as stage pianos?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 02:34 PM

Fortunately, the Krome 88 isn't quite as expensive as you suggest - $1600 at all the places I've seen it advertised.

Korg has had a few quality control issues over the past few years, but the Krome seems to be well constructed for a lightweight board. I'm mainly triggering my 73 from a weighted board, so that will reduce wear and tear on the Krome. However, I don't see any reason why it will suffer more degradation than a DP of similar weight.

I think the trade offs are in the sophistication of piano processing in recent dedicated DPs versus workstations. Although the Krome has eight velocity layers (more than most hardware DPs), it lacks blending and sympathetic resonance, for example. This is no worse than its sibling, the SV-1, say, but a Roland, such as the 300NX will have a smoother response. In practice, at a gig, these things will be totally unnoticeable.

On the plus side, pretty much everything's editable in a workstation. If I want to, I can change the velocity switching points to suit my personal playing style, and do 101 other things to wreck Korg's nice German Grand!
Posted by: bfb

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 03:25 PM

great point on the piano processing/blending/sympathetic resonance... might be completely noticeable if playing the workstation as solo piano...
Posted by: JFP

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 06:13 PM

Tried the Krome 88 in a shop. Didn't like the keybed. It's really not on par with the better piano-type key beds, like Roland, Kawai , or even Casio. It's more comparable to what you find on the Kurzweils , like the PC3 series. Perhaps quite OK for allround work , that includes many non-piano sounds, but for piano play I would say no. Better to have a decent 88 and a 61 Krome , if you like the sound and controls of the Korg. Looks better too; on the 61 everything looks in balance , while the 88 looks quite ugly ; lot's of unused space and controls that seems lost on the surface of this big oil-tanker. It's lightweight, but bulky in size and looks.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Korg Krome - 10/11/12 07:00 PM

Interesting, JFP. Leaving aside the action, did you manage to get an impression of the pianos?
Posted by: icarusi

Re: Korg Krome - 10/14/12 06:13 PM

Anyone using velocity curve 9 on the Krome?
Posted by: mrcpro

Re: Korg Krome - 10/15/12 10:43 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Tried the Krome 88 in a shop. Didn't like the keybed. It's really not on par with the better piano-type key beds, like Roland, Kawai , or even Casio.

Just by chance I found a Krome 88 all set up in the middle of the keyboard room when I went to the Clakamas GC this afternoon looking for a PX-350. The action is beyond bad. The actions on the lowly M50 88 and MOX8 next to it felt wonderfully expressive by comparison.

I don't think anyone considering a Krome 88 for DP duties would be happy with it even though I thought it's piano sounded really good.

There was no PX-350 unfortunately. Maybe next time...
Posted by: karlosserio

Re: Korg Krome - 03/27/13 08:50 PM

On a side note and being a previous Korg Triton Studio owner I can tell you that most of the sounds on the Krome are the same Korg sounds of the past decade, dated and bad programming. The patch names brought bad memories of those same sounds being unusable and digital sounding.
It has a decent piano sound but the brass, reed and strings are horrible. Construction wise my run on the Krome made me fell like I was playing a really cheap Casio.
Dead line: Not worth it!
Posted by: hamlet cat

Re: Korg Krome - 03/28/13 01:41 AM

The ones I looked at seemed to be cheaply put together. Light weight over quality build. No thanks.
Posted by: MFBlueFly

Re: Korg Krome - 03/28/13 04:24 AM

The Krome 88 keyboard is very nice, all you have to do is change the velocity curve and it makes a world of difference, I change the VC to suite, if I want a crisp light action I use number 5, for soft mellow music 9 is good and the default 4 is also good and quite dynamic.

Like all acoustic and digital pianos it has it's own characteristics, the questions as always is down to the individual, if you like it it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, it's been said many times on these forums that sound and feel are a very personal thing, no one can tell you if a keyboard is good or bad, you need to go find out for yourself, however 5 minutes in a shop isn't going to be of any use as you just can't tell from that.

I admit when I first had my Krome I was very doubtful of the action but now I have absolutely no regrets, the sound and feel for me is just fine, not perfect but nothing is.

Cheers

Mart
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: Korg Krome - 03/28/13 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Tried the Krome 88 in a shop. Didn't like the keybed. It's really not on par with the better piano-type key beds, like Roland, Kawai , or even Casio. It's more comparable to what you find on the Kurzweils , like the PC3 series. Perhaps quite OK for allround work , that includes many non-piano sounds, but for piano play I would say no. Better to have a decent 88 and a 61 Krome , if you like the sound and controls of the Korg. Looks better too; on the 61 everything looks in balance , while the 88 looks quite ugly ; lot's of unused space and controls that seems lost on the surface of this big oil-tanker. It's lightweight, but bulky in size and looks.


I agree 100%. It looks really nice as a 61 key workstation but for me does not cut it as a weighted keyboard. I use the 61 for fun, writing, playing B3 sounds etc.. For $799 I think it was well worth the money for what I am using it for.
I purchased KSounds $50 organ soundset for more B3 variety. I also did some edits to the best of Triton soundset- I recognized some of the titles from the Triton LE. I think the Krome is superior to the LE.

Note; I have this next to a Korg SP280. I think this newer piano sounds fantastic, the speakers are great and the action is improved over the SP170. Although some of the other pianos in the price range (if not all) have actions that could be deemed better, none have the clarity of the SP280 and I have always liked the Korg sound better.

Also as someone mentioned, the Korg 61 velocity does not reach 100 for the piano sounds, but you can edit the 8 breakpoints for where the different samples switch over.
This is a nice feature.

There are also things not available in specifications.
For example, the Krome sounds much better through my monitors than the PX130, 350 or P95.

The Krome is still a workstation; and not a DP. Its a solid workstation with a nice piano sound. Not a DP or DP substitute.