Kawai quality and service experience

Posted by: CompuCat

Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 04:24 PM

Recently I bought a Kawai CS9, a beauty digital piano. My wife and kids like it very much. However we are not impressed by the quality of Kawai. The piano was delivered by a local dealer on Saturday. At Monday night we noticed that there was strange noise from some 15 keys (piano was powered off). It sounded like the keys touched something inside, for example, a cable. Those key felt also differently. I e-mailed this problem to the dealer. On the next day, we found that the cover of the piano is not completely polished. There was a very narrow black and non-reflective bar on the cover across the entire length of the piano. If I clean it with wet cloth, the cloth turned black. I e-mailed this problem to the dealer too. The dealer is very customer friendly and cooperative. They contacted Kawai Germany.

After two weeks, two Kawai engineer came to my house to fix the piano. They found that the painting problem could be fixed by polishing it with some sort of chemical stuff. They took all the wooden boards above the keyboard apart. By doing that the keyboard problem was immediately gone. After some experiment they found that the keyboard problem was caused by the wooden bar above the keyboard. It was mounted a bit too close to the keyboard. Therefore it gave the keyboard too much pressure. The solution was to raise the bar a bit as well as the board above it. Finally the two problems were solved. But, when the engineers tried to put everything back, they could not find one of the screws. We searched everywhere but just could not find it. Very sadly, they didn't have backup parts with them. At the end they had to remove/borrow a screw from a "not important" place and put it on an important place.

Now the piano is working as it should be. We are happy with it. However, that missing screw has not yet shown up. Maybe as the engineers said “maybe that screw was missing out of factory".

This is my first experience with the quality and service of Kawai. Is this business as usual for Kawai? No sorry, no apology, you have a problem, we come fix it. That is!

If you plan to buy a Kawai digital piano, double check everything, better make a X-ray photo so that you can check the screws too.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 04:29 PM

Sorry , what was the problem again ?

(there was something wrong with the product and it was fixed at your place- they took their time to get it done properly it seems - apart from the singe screw that was lost. It's always a disappointment if somethings is wrong with a new purchase, but if the problem gets solved in a reasonable time frame and at no cost and no effort of your own, other than having to stay at home - then what else is wrong ?)
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Sorry , what was the problem again ?


Indeed. A problem (or two) fixed by a helpful dealer. I know it must have been frustrating for a little while but I can't really see too much to complain about here.
Posted by: CompuCat

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 04:52 PM

@JFP
No problem at all! Nothing is wrong! Everything is perfect!It was my fault. If I didn't buy this piano then they didn't have to spend their valuable time to visit me and fix their product. I should not look at the single missing screw. There are still many many screws that are not missing. If the product was perfect how could I get the chance en experience this wonderful service?

Maybe I should quantify my experience so that you won't get it wrong again.

Feature: 5 of 5
Build quality: 3 of 5
Service: 4 of 5
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 05:12 PM

"A problem or two, fixed by a helpful dealer." Is that what you consider acceptable in a new digital piano? I don't.

The Japanese practically invented quality. So for me, acceptable would be zero problems.

It seems, though, that Kawai has lost the recipe. This board is rife with posts describing their quality problems.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: CompuCat
@JFP
Maybe I should quantify my experience so that you won't get it wrong again.

Feature: 5 of 5
Build quality: 3 of 5
Service: 4 of 5

Why is service only 4?

Build quality 3 out of 5 is 60% on another scale. Possible missing screw and an unfinished panel. Maybe a different subjective value?
Posted by: dmd

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 05:14 PM

I am just curious as to what portion of the service you were disappointed (4 of 5) with.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 06:40 PM

CompuCat, thank you for your post. I'm glad to hear that the Kawai engineers were able to resolve the issue with your CS9.

Perhaps you would like to post a picture of this beautiful instrument in your home?

May I wish yourself and your family many years of enjoyment playing the new piano.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: KLSinCT

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 07:09 PM

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
"A problem or two, fixed by a helpful dealer." Is that what you consider acceptable in a new digital piano? I don't.

The Japanese practically invented quality. So for me, acceptable would be zero problems.

It seems, though, that Kawai has lost the recipe. This board is rife with posts describing their quality problems.


+1!!!!!

K.
Posted by: Macy

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 08:37 PM

I'm with you CompuCat.

You should expect zero defects when you buy a new product, any product. But it much more aggravating when the product is relatively expense, as this one is. This product had multiple manufacturing defects that reveal errors in assembly, finishing, and final inspection. A serious failure of manufacturing quality control.

The fact that Kawai had to send technicians to your home to correct the problems was an inconvenience to you. (I would have asked for a replacement product to be sent instead.) If the technicians weren't sure if the missing screw was originally missing from the factory, or if they had misplaced it during the repair (it could be sitting somewhere potentially damaging inside the piano now) that's a problem with their competence to do the repair work. It is unclear from your description whether the repair to the keyboard was a makeshift solution or simply repositioning something to its proper design location that was done incorrectly at the factory. If it was a makeshift solution that would be totally unacceptable to me.

Hopefully, everything has now been corrected to the original design and factory manufacturing standards, aside from the remaining missing screw. Hopefully they will send you a replacement screw and you can replace it yourself without another inconveniencing visit from the technicians. But I think you are owed a letter of apology from the company and an offer of a warranty extension or some other non-monetary compensation for their poor performance and your inconvenience.
Posted by: ando

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 09:40 PM

Was the dull panel restored to a good polish? Does it match the polish of the rest of the piano? That is the part I would be concerned about. The rest is just life. Nothing's ever perfect.
Posted by: Ojustaboo

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/20/12 10:08 PM

Deleted
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 03:25 AM

Hi ,

it's not that there's nothing to complain when you buy a new product and something is wrong, but in real live this happens all the time, with all kind of products and brands. No matter how expensive. If you've never had a flaw in any new product you bought, price yourself very lucky !! Then the next step is, how the problem is solved. In my view and from your description , it seems that they took care of your complaints and fixed it. Only they lost one screw along the way. I don't think any other brand would have done anything else. You could have opted for a recplacement unit if you would have really pushed it, but is that really worth all the trouble when the problem can be fixed in place without having to disassemble and repackage the unit and assemble a new one ?

Oh ...and some of us here always have the opinion that every bit of dust or slightest unevenness is totally (!) unacceptable (repeats in every thread). I don't think that's a fair and realistic world view, but hey... everybody has a right to his/her own opinion...cheers, J

Edit: don't get me wrong, I would be disappointed very much as well in the beginning when my new product arrived with several problems. But if its fixed and put behind, then it's time to forget it and enjoy the instrument. Otherwise it'll just keep on spoiling the fun...
Posted by: Ojustaboo

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 07:21 AM

Deleted
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 08:27 AM

I sometimes think that even with the best intentions , brands can hardly control everything that happens on the (outsourced) factory floors in our mass-production society. Parts are often coming from so many different suppliers and even putting the product together happens often in different factories, or in a factory we're a zillion other - mostly unrelated - products are also produced. Ideally a product would be designed, produced and checked in place at the companies headquarter by their own personnel. Unfortunately in 2012 that's a utopian view.

Considering the range of products with flaws I have received over the last few years ranging from kitchen equipment , car parts, TV's, speakers, synths, audio-interfaces, computers, hard drives, SSD's , memory modules, DP's, push bikes, etc I am now always anticipating that I have to exchange products , or get them fix - even before they arrive ! So many brands and products have failed, that I think it's part of the industry right now and the most important part is how the problems are solved in the end and how quickly. And that includes many expensive A-brands too - price is no longer a certainty for ultimate perfection. Sorry that I have to shatter that dream. Blaming Kawai, or Korg in particular makes no sense in my view. In our modern world you never know what you get for sure with any brand in consumer products , unless it's designed, made and checked by some skilled insiders in a small company or institution.

Should we expect better quality (control) from the manufacturers: yes please. Is that realistic in our complicated world: I think not. So a forum is a valuable way to find out production flaws quickly by comparing experiences and search together (consumers + manufacturers) for a fix. Just proclaiming everything that pops up as totally unacceptable will (IMHO) not change a lot for the better. It only gives bad vibes...
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 08:55 AM

I think your expectations are low.

"... brands can hardly control everything that happens on the (outsourced) factory floors ..."
Doesn't matter. Outsourcers can do the same job as insourcers. And they will, if there is demand.

"Blaming Kawai, or Korg in particular makes no sense in my view."
It makes perfect sense. When I buy from a maker, that maker is responsible, not anyone else.

I don't see or know the outsourced/subcontracted companies. I'm only doing business with the one maker. He alone is responsible for getting things right.

I won't lower my expectations.
Posted by: KLSinCT

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 10:05 AM

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I think your expectations are low.

"... brands can hardly control everything that happens on the (outsourced) factory floors ..."
Doesn't matter. Outsourcers can do the same job as insourcers. And they will, if there is demand.

"Blaming Kawai, or Korg in particular makes no sense in my view."
It makes perfect sense. When I buy from a maker, that maker is responsible, not anyone else.

I don't see or know the outsourced/subcontracted companies. I'm only doing business with the one maker. He alone is responsible for getting things right.

I won't lower my expectations.


+1

K.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 12:32 PM

Then brace yourself for many disappointments that will follow , hardly any major product release for the last few years has been without flaws that were detected afterwards or simply overlooked. I think the most you can do in that respect is never buy a product that has just been introduced, but always wait for later production runs (with revisions) or buy something that has been on the market for a while, is a bit outdated, but has proved itself . In the end the manufacturer is responsible , but playing the blame game is going to change exactly nothing about this situation, cause its part of the fast moving globalized world we're living in with fast moving product cycles, outsourced production lines , complicated supply lines, calculating managers (!) , long logistic trajectories and the list goes on.

I would like it to be different, but after encountering so many problems in products from so many different brands and in so many different categories, I think expecting everything to be always working 100% out of the box every time is no so self-evident as it was perhaps 10 or 20 years ago. As long as the wrongs are put right in the end and in a reasonable timeframe - and that is we're the difference in brand quality also comes to the surface.
Posted by: CompuCat

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 12:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
CompuCat, thank you for your post. I'm glad to hear that the Kawai engineers were able to resolve the issue with your CS9.

Perhaps you would like to post a picture of this beautiful instrument in your home?

May I wish yourself and your family many years of enjoyment playing the new piano.

Kind regards,
James
x


James, thank you! We are really enjoying this piano. I will post a photo later. Your posts helped a lot in making this choice.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Then brace yourself for many disappointments that will follow , hardly any major product release for the last few years has been without flaws that were detected afterwards or simply overlooked.

Unfortunately, this is true. So long as those engaged in the physical aspects of production are geographically, economically and socially divorced from those who purchase and use the products, this will be the norm. How can one expect the almost-slave-labor-condition workers in the giant Chinese factories to care about the products they will probably never be able to afford? In one sense it's remarkable that there are not more problems and failures.

Quote:
I think the most you can do in that respect is never buy a product that has just been introduced, but always wait for later production runs (with revisions) or buy something that has been on the market for a while, is a bit outdated, but has proved itself .

To me, this is the byproduct of inadequate computer software development, resulting in early-adopter consumers becoming unwitting beta-testers. This mentality has carried over into other product areas more recently, with manufacturers rushing out products before all the bugs have been ironed out, simply because consumers will now accept this as the new norm.

Quote:
In the end the manufacturer is responsible , but playing the blame game is going to change exactly nothing about this situation, cause its part of the fast moving globalized world we're living in with fast moving product cycles, outsourced production lines , complicated supply lines, calculating managers (!) , long logistic trajectories and the list goes on.

Yes, the manufacturer is responsible, but in a wider sense we all bear responsibility for this state of affairs. We have all become rather greedy. The producer is greedy for extra profit, the shareholders are greedy for dividends, the end-user is greedy for expecting to pay very little for the most amazing devices. I know I've become used to a luxury of consumption that I could never have dreamed of years ago as globalization has decimated the relative price of "durable" goods.
Posted by: CompuCat

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I think your expectations are low.

"... brands can hardly control everything that happens on the (outsourced) factory floors ..."
Doesn't matter. Outsourcers can do the same job as insourcers. And they will, if there is demand.

"Blaming Kawai, or Korg in particular makes no sense in my view."
It makes perfect sense. When I buy from a maker, that maker is responsible, not anyone else.

I don't see or know the outsourced/subcontracted companies. I'm only doing business with the one maker. He alone is responsible for getting things right.

I won't lower my expectations.


+1 too!

Expectation is one thing and attitude is another. A long story about outsourced assembly line, subcontractors and etc. should not be the excuses for bad quality control. Unfinished polishing and keyboard problem says something about the quality of the products. Technicians doing reparations came without spare parts says something about the quality of the service. Together it is the attitude of the manufacture for their products and customers. This is also the reason why I rated a 4 for the service. In fact Kawai doesn't think a missing screw is a problem. It is the shop where I bought the piano wanted to send someone to me to put the screw on (1 hour drive). That's a 5 star service!
Posted by: BeccaBb

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:20 PM

Not all companies are outsourcing everything.

roland

from their site: Every Roland digital piano is carefully assembled one by one. We’ve adopted the “cell production system,” in which one person is responsible for assembling a product from start to finish, increasing efficiency and assuring pride in workmanship and an extraordinarily high standards of quality.


If one company can do this, all of them can do this!

I really think that just expecting to buy something that will need fixing within days or weeks of taking it home is ludicrous. We should expect to get value for our money (and paying a bit more for it is hunky dory in my book.)

The whole disposable culture of goods needs to go.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:45 PM

Thumbs up for Roland then, but I'm afraid there are not many Roland's around. And...their products are indeed more expensive in comparisson to some other brands. That may say something, but is also a risk for Roland, cause people seem to expect both a low price and the best quality. On the other and price doesn't say everything: I've had several premium price A products the last few years, all with flaws and problems. Googling around showed it were not single incidents and only my bad luck - although I seem to have a talent for getting the wrong boxes all of the time ;-)

Of course there are some companies that do everything exactly right, but 1) they are a minority 2) they are almost always more pricey (no contradiction with my previous statement that price doesnt say everything; both are true)

I wish you could order any product without a doubt , but my experience and from people around is that that is simply no the case. In that is not only a few brands that are to blame, I don't think that's totally fair.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: BeccaBb
Not all companies are outsourcing everything.

roland

It's interesting that you mention Roland, because in my experience their product quality does seem to be a cut above the norm. That is not to say that I've had a bad experience with other DP manufacturers (certain Italian producers excepted), but the premium you sometimes pay for Roland does seem to be reflected in the physical quality of the product.

Quote:
If one company can do this, all of them can do this!

I really think that just expecting to buy something that will need fixing within days or weeks of taking it home is ludicrous. We should expect to get value for our money (and paying a bit more for it is hunky dory in my book.)

The whole disposable culture of goods needs to go.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I had a classic example of the problem with a microwave installed in a brand new house. It lasted 13 months before fizzling out, whereas a freestanding one from the 1980s is still going strong. And, from a little bit of Googling, I discovered that this is a million miles from being an isolated incident.

However, it will take a cultural shift for this to be remedied. Many corporations now seem to exist only for themselves. Products are almost incidental, and customers are a nuisance unless they quietly and uncomplainingly keep opening their wallets. However, I really don't believe that this is the case for companies like Kawai. Although there are some irritating marketing practices, Kawai generally produces a very good product. A lot of the complaints seen on this forum are aired here in large part due to the presence of Kawai James (who really does care). They have had issues that result from transporting delicate but heavy products worldwide, but have addressed those problems in a timely manner.

This thread deals in part with poor finish. I can't recall having seen another post about that in recent times. Clearly, QC wasn't as effective as it should have been in this instance, and there may be pressure at the factory to occasionally overlook things that will affect production figures and times but, unless it becomes a regular occurrence, I don't think Kawai should be pilloried for it if, as they have done, they address the issue to the customer's satisfaction. I agree it shouldn't happen in the first place, but we live in a world where everyone expects everything yesterday and at a bargain price.
Posted by: CompuCat

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Macy
I'm with you CompuCat.

You should expect zero defects when you buy a new product, any product. But it much more aggravating when the product is relatively expense, as this one is. This product had multiple manufacturing defects that reveal errors in assembly, finishing, and final inspection. A serious failure of manufacturing quality control.

The fact that Kawai had to send technicians to your home to correct the problems was an inconvenience to you. (I would have asked for a replacement product to be sent instead.) If the technicians weren't sure if the missing screw was originally missing from the factory, or if they had misplaced it during the repair (it could be sitting somewhere potentially damaging inside the piano now) that's a problem with their competence to do the repair work. It is unclear from your description whether the repair to the keyboard was a makeshift solution or simply repositioning something to its proper design location that was done incorrectly at the factory. If it was a makeshift solution that would be totally unacceptable to me.

Hopefully, everything has now been corrected to the original design and factory manufacturing standards, aside from the remaining missing screw. Hopefully they will send you a replacement screw and you can replace it yourself without another inconveniencing visit from the technicians. But I think you are owed a letter of apology from the company and an offer of a warranty extension or some other non-monetary compensation for their poor performance and your inconvenience.





The wooden bar above the keyboard has some room to be shifted up en down by loosing the screw. It is by design, but I not sure why it is designed like that? Maybe to cope with different types of keyboard? I hope it stays at this position and won't fall on the keyboard again. To cope with the raised bar they also put some tape between two boards to make some room. Thats a mickey mouse fix. The missing screw is inside the piano. I can just buy one but I don't want to open the piano myself. As long as the piano works, I am ok with it.
Posted by: BeccaBb

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 02:35 PM

I'm not saying yay or nay against kawai. I have no experience of their products, I can only read what's here about them. I also agree with having James on board means more complaints are heard. I really wish the other dp companies (including Roland) would have someone on the forum also. smile James is awesome.

Casio, on the other hand, I did own and is not worth the money. The increased amount of complaints on here is alarming.

I've been shifting my attitude of what I buy and who from for awhile. I'm getting more picky and have learned that delaying a purchase to save up for a higher quality, better built and conscientious company is to my benefit. I also don't buy just to buy. I buy what I need and hold on to what I own.

I hope I'm not the only one who's shifting to this attitude.
Posted by: Ojustaboo

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 02:51 PM

Deleted
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 03:14 PM

Perhaps I'm just triggered by the words "totally unacceptable " that creeps up in just about any thread and with just about any problem, or perceived problem, be it small or big. It looses its meaning in this way. Let's leave the biggest misses for "totally unacceptable" and smaller issues , that are often fixed and/ or replaced to other less heavy handed terms. I'm no just referring to this thread, but also other reported issues, or misunderstood characteristics (happens too) in other threads. "Totally unacceptable" sounds to me like really unsolvable bad and a huge overall failure of the company involved. Single issues that require replacements or fixes are bad enough in itself and certainly an annoyance , but if dealt with in a proper way , I wonder if "totally unacceptable" is the right qualification . Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion , to me it just sounds rather angry if applied to every incident.

Note: personally I'm not sure if I had a big bulky and heavy DP unpacked and assembled in my room and there's a problem that can be fixed in my place, that I would play the unacceptable card immediately and request an new unit, considering disassembly, packing, transporting / unpacking , assembling the new unit and the hoping there's no other issue on the new unit that requires attention.

Anyway ...over and out. I hope you will enjoy the piano in the end, despite the repair history. I think it's a beautiful DP.
Posted by: KLSinCT

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: BeccaBb
Not all companies are outsourcing everything.

roland

from their site: Every Roland digital piano is carefully assembled one by one. We’ve adopted the “cell production system,” in which one person is responsible for assembling a product from start to finish, increasing efficiency and assuring pride in workmanship and an extraordinarily high standards of quality.


If one company can do this, all of them can do this!

I really think that just expecting to buy something that will need fixing within days or weeks of taking it home is ludicrous. We should expect to get value for our money (and paying a bit more for it is hunky dory in my book.)

The whole disposable culture of goods needs to go.


+1! My Roland FP-7F is beautifully made and hasn't given me a bit of trouble from Day One of ownership.

K.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 03:29 PM

Yes Roland's quality is top-notch in many ways. Just don't mention the key surface problems with Ivory Feel that they have allowed to drag on for years on end. All makers have issues now and again.
Posted by: Macy

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/21/12 05:39 PM

A consumer attitude of accepting, and apparently almost expecting, poor quality manufacturing as long as it can be corrected at the users home (or work location) after receipt of a new product is a key enabler that produces poor quality manufacturing in the first place. Excellence in product design and zero defects in manufacturing should be expected. It is achievable when it is expected and demanded by consumers and manufacturers.

Human error is always a variable, but it can be reduced to a negligible level with adequate process control. I say this as a product designer and former executive in a Fortune 500 technology company, that also owned his own small company which designed and manufactured its own high-tech products for over a decade. Consumers should demand the best quality and expect the best service. Then the most successful companies will be the best at providing both.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/22/12 11:36 AM

Interesting. I bought one a few years ago; the playing action was really light and good; ideal for playing in restaurants as I was then. But it sounded on occasions, like a howling banshee; something went wrong big time. It took nearly 12 months for them to accept responsibilty and replace the offending circuit board. A dealer in Preston (UK)refuses to sell `em, their reputation was so bad. Methinks it must have changed for the better now. But at the time, my dealer (Promenade Music, Morecambe, was less than helpful.
Posted by: antonfranz

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/23/12 04:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Macy
Excellence in product design and zero defects in manufacturing should be expected. It is achievable when it is expected and demanded by consumers and manufacturers.

Human error is always a variable, but it can be reduced to a negligible level with adequate process control.... the most successful companies will be the best at providing both.

100 right ! I couldn't agree with you more. My experience with my Kawai CS9 should have been a totally different one! (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1957075.html)
Cheers,
Antonfranz
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/23/12 08:22 AM

I'll second that.
If we expect poor quality, manufacturers will give us what we expect (and deserve).
So don't!
Posted by: JFP

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/23/12 10:03 AM

@antonfranz , I read your story carefully and understand your frustration. However , it is not clear and probably never will be, if the keys had been adjusted before the Kawai rep was called in to check the piano. In that case the keybed would have looked in pretty good shape and the judgement of the Kawai rep not to fix the keybed is normal . I'm not defending anyone in particular, but I have some experience with thomann and what they say and promise is not always what happens in reality. They are a big company with fast moving products and what happened to your CS in reality is unknown. Could have been that it has been standing around for while before someone took care of it. Could have been that they wanted a second opinion from Kawai in a later stadium , when they doubted if sending the unit back and forth was worth it, considering the logistic costs. They may have been afraid that you would find something else wrong with the unit later on and sent it back again, completely wiping out their profits. In all it seems to me that a Kawai rep came in only at a late stadium and perhaps Kawai service was only involved very late in this scenario, while in the meantime your frustration got time to wax. The fact that your CS had flaws is a bad thing. What happened afterward was something where thomann and Kawai were involved and what exactly was said and done and when we'll Never know. I've got promises broken and things said (that were not done or different in reality) with thomann as well, so my only point is that it is hard to lay blame on just one party for all that went wrong, when we weren't there to see what actually happened. Good to hear you enjoy your Yamaha ! looks very nice too...J
Posted by: antonfranz

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 11/23/12 11:38 AM

@ JFP
Originally Posted By: JFP
@antonfranz , ....The fact that your CS had flaws is a bad thing. What happened afterward was something where thomann and Kawai were involved and what exactly was said and done and when, we'ii Never know ....... so my only point is that it is hard to lay blame on just one party for all that went wrong, when we weren't there to see what actually happened. Good to hear you enjoy your Yamaha ! looks very nice too...J

Your words sound very balanced and wise to me and I can share your comments despite my obvious frustration .Now I am happy with my Yamaha and that's what counts....
Thank you JFP.
Ciao,
Antonfranz
Posted by: WippenJackSpring

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 12/01/12 06:13 PM

Hello.

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I own a Kawai MP10 and only have and/or had a few complaints with it.

First the sustain pedal was not consistently disengaging when I would lift up and away. I emailed Kawai US and they very quickly sent me a new double pedal module by FedEx. I was very impressed with Kawai US's fast response. Although, if I owned the company, I would have followed up with an email to see if my problem had been solved, instead of just assuming that it had.

The music stand on the Kawai MP10 is a very frustrating piece of hardware. You know how sometimes you wonder if the engineers actually try/use the things they design to see if they actually work or not. To see just how user friendly they are. Well that is the case with the music stand. That is, sheets of paper will bend (concave) then slide off onto the keyboard - very frustrating. More firm book like music will stay up (if they are firm enough). I am not bragging, but I could design/engineer a much better music stand for the Kawai MP10.

The last problem is that, by design, Kawai decided to not include the modeling (if that is the right term) for the sustaining vibration of the virtual key's strings when transitioning from the sustain pedal to re-engaging the respective key(s) on the keyboard. Some manufactures include this feature. Kawai apparently does not, at least on the MP10. I hope yours has this feature included.


WJS.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 12/01/12 08:07 PM

WJS,

Thank you your feedback about the MP10.

I'm glad to read that my colleagues at Kawai America were able to provide a replacement pedal unit efficiently. I'm not familiar with ther customer support follow-up policy, but will pass on your comments on Monday.

Regarding the music rest and individual sheets of music, this topic was discussed in the following thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1973926/

However, I shall make a note of suggesting that the music rest design be improved for future instruments.

Finally, regarding the damper pedal re-engaging, this is another improvement that I would like to see implemented in future Kawai instruments.

Thank you once again for your useful feedback.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Allan W.

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 12/01/12 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By: WippenJackSpring

The music stand on the Kawai MP10 is a very frustrating piece of hardware. You know how sometimes you wonder if the engineers actually try/use the things they design to see if they actually work or not. To see just how user friendly they are. Well that is the case with the music stand. That is, sheets of paper will bend (concave) then slide off onto the keyboard - very frustrating. More firm book like music will stay up (if they are firm enough). I am not bragging, but I could design/engineer a much better music stand for the Kawai MP10.
WJS.


I just made a post about an easy way to fix this... http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1993408

Other than the music rest I'm pretty pleased with my MP10. I haven't had any problems with the sustain pedal or with key spacings.
Posted by: WippenJackSpring

Re: Kawai quality and service experience - 12/02/12 12:18 AM

Thanks Allan.

I read what K. James said on the other thread and saw your fix in the pictures.

I too may have to do that.

smile