Another Ipad connection question

Posted by: doz

Another Ipad connection question - 12/15/12 10:38 AM

Hi
Im getting an Ipad for Christmas (4th gen) and was hoping to connect it to my Roland HP107. The piano has usb and midi connectors.
I wondered if I connected my piano usb to a powered usb hub, then also from the ipad lightning connector to the same usb hub if I could use apps like garageband to give me more sounds and rhythms.
Does anyone know where I might be able to find this out?
Thanks
Posted by: slowtraveler

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/15/12 11:40 AM

Hi doz,

iOS natively supports MIDI, but there aren't yet tons of cables available for the Lightning connector on the new iPad.

You should be able to use the HP107 as a MIDI controller for GarageBand on your iPad, but a powered USB hub might cause some problems.

I think the most reliable interface would be a direct connection between keyboard and iPad, using a Lightning-to-USB cable like this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LightUSBCable/

Or, if you already have a USB cable of suitable length, you could use a Lightning-to-USB adapter like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LightCamera

Kind regards,

Ben
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 08:12 AM

Originally Posted By: slowtraveler
Hi doz,

iOS natively supports MIDI, but there aren't yet tons of cables available for the Lightning connector on the new iPad.

You should be able to use the HP107 as a MIDI controller for GarageBand on your iPad, but a powered USB hub might cause some problems.

I think the most reliable interface would be a direct connection between keyboard and iPad, using a Lightning-to-USB cable like this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LightUSBCable/

Or, if you already have a USB cable of suitable length, you could use a Lightning-to-USB adapter like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LightCamera

Kind regards,

Ben



Thanks very much for replying...
I'm still a bit confused. I'm not sure why I would need the first item as I understand the iPad 4 comes with a lightning to USB cable which connects to the usb wall plug.
The only reason I mentioned powered usb was becomes some people have suggested that digital pianos and keyboards draw too much power from an ipad to all it to work.
My piano has one of those square printer type usb connectors and i have a cable which has a standard usb at the other end.
Really appreciate your help. I'm sure i will get there on day
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 09:19 AM

Pianos don't draw power from the USB connection.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 10:34 AM

Originally Posted By: doz
The only reason I mentioned powered usb was becomes some people have suggested that digital pianos and keyboards draw too much power from an ipad to all it to work.

The only keyboards that are an issue are unpowered ones, which draw power from the device they are connected to. Any keyboard that plugs into the wall for power will not be an issue.
Posted by: slowtraveler

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 10:36 AM

doz,

I'm not an expert on how iOS supports MIDI. Things I have read on various support forums suggest to me that the iPad might have trouble parsing the data traffic that could be passing through a powered USB hub, but your mileage may vary.

As Mac said, the HP107 does not draw power over its USB connection--it has an AC cord for that. smile (Of course some stand-alone MIDI controllers are USB-powered, but digital pianos are not.)

So you have a connector problem, insofar as the piano has a B-type socket and your existing cable has an A-type connector. I think the Lightning-to-USB adapter I described above, plus a separate USB cable with an A connector on one end and a B connector on the other, would give you the most flexibility. Or if the cable you have seems long enough, you could also just get an A-socket to B-plug adapter.

There are tons of resources on the web for information about external MIDI controllers for iPad apps. Check out www.gearslutz.com for starters, or view some of the iOS Update videos that Mitch Gallagher produces at www.sweetwater.com.

Regards,

B.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 10:42 AM

Thanks again for all the advice. So if I connect my piano to an ipad 4 "lightning to usb adapter" and connect the ipad to that too, I should be good to go....?
Now, how do I get to play like Daniel Barenboim
Posted by: slowtraveler

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: doz
...I should be good to go...?
Now, how do I get to play like Daniel Barenboim

Yup, with respect to the physical connections. Note that using the USB connector on the HP107 allows you to *transmit* MIDI data to control iPad apps like GarageBand, but not *receive* MIDI data to play local sounds on the HP107 under the control of an external program.

If you later decide you want do to both, you'll need to use the Roland's actual MIDI connectors (also very do-able, but takes a little more hardware).

Sorry--can't help with the Daniel Barenboim part smile

B.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: slowtraveler
So you have a connector problem, insofar as the piano has a B-type socket and your existing cable has an A-type connector. I think the Lightning-to-USB adapter I described above, plus a separate USB cable with an A connector on one end and a B connector on the other, would give you the most flexibility. Or if the cable you have seems long enough, you could also just get an A-socket to B-plug adapter.

No, this won't work. You can't just adapt one connector to the other (even if you added another adapter to get the gender right). There is a reason USB-A and USB-B connectors are different, their designated functions are different. You use one when a device is acting as a host, and you use the other when a device is being hosted. Simply changing the end of a cable will not change the function of the port you are plugging it into. They didn't make the two ends different just to frustrate users, they did it to make sure that you couldn't mix things up and connect host-to-host or slave-to-slave.

On the older iPad, the solution was the Camera Connection Kit, that worked fine with USB MIDI devices. I expect that the new camera kit for the lightning connector will do the same for the new iPads.
Posted by: slowtraveler

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 11:52 AM

Oops. @anotherscott, I believe the Lightning-to-USB adapter I referenced above does in fact serve as the replacement for the original Camera Connection Kit, and should work as I've described. (See the description at the Sweetwater site I linked to.)

However, a simple gender changer attached to the iPad's stock Lightning-to-USB cable will not. My bad...

B.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/16/12 12:40 PM

Wow really appreciate all the advice.
I think I am trying to describe what I want to do but am finding it hard to use the correct terminology.
My piano has the square usb connector (never remember if this is an A or B). So I was intending to connect this (via a normal A to B USB cable) to the apple "lightning to USB adapter" which I need to buy, (not the standard "lightning to USB cable" which comes with the iPad). My understanding from slowtraveler and other sites I've seen is that this serves as the lightning equivalent of the previous camera connector kit.
I was hoping this would allow me to play sounds etc. from an iPad app like garageband on my piano.
Really like the HP107 still, but was hoping to spice it up a bit.

Thanks again all
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 12:52 PM

Hoping its ok to post another message on this topic. I have now bought the new lightning camera connection kit. I have connected my Roland hp107 via USB to the connection kit. Then connected the kit to ipad 4. This just produces the message 'USB device connected is not supported'. I've connected the ipad last but also tried connecting in several different orders. I wonder if there is something else obvious I am missing.
Thanks..
Steve
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 01:31 PM

Not tried this with the new iPad/iPhone as I'm stuck on 'old' technology with the iPad2/iPhone3. They work fine for me with my DP.

The apple support forums are usually OK just in case everyone else on here is stuck in the past like me. There is talk of connecting in the right order, but seems like you have tried that. Have you tried another 'device', maybe a camera or something? Just to check the connector is working.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Not tried this with the new iPad/iPhone as I'm stuck on 'old' technology with the iPad2/iPhone3. They work fine for me with my DP.

The apple support forums are usually OK just in case everyone else on here is stuck in the past like me. There is talk of connecting in the right order, but seems like you have tried that. Have you tried another 'device', maybe a camera or something? Just to check the connector is working.


Thanks. I will try a different device to check the cable and also try a different USB cable from the piano. I was wondering if my piano was too old but I would have thought that with USB it should be ok. Thanks again.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 02:03 PM

I took a quick look and it seems you had to install Roland device drivers on a PC for this to work with the 107, so maybe the USB interface is not midi class compliant? I would google a bit more around that? Good luck.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
I took a quick look and it seems you had to install Roland device drivers on a PC for this to work with the 107, so maybe the USB interface is not midi class compliant? I would google a bit more around that? Good luck.


Thanks. It certainly says you can connect to a computer if you install the driver but I dont understand enough about midi to know more. Sounds like for some reason you cant use it. What a shame. Was really hoping to connect up with the ipad.
Appreciate your help.
Posted by: susanmusic

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 03:07 PM

One likely way to achieve your goal of connecting 107 to ipad midi apps is to use 5 pin midi in/outs with a CLASS COMPLIANT USB-MIDI connector plus ipad camera connection kit plus lightning adapter.

I can't guarantee it will work with the lightning connector. It works fine with my ipad 3 and my DP's 5 pin MIDI jacks. However, I did have to purchase a CLASS COMPLIANT USB-MIDI connector as my Roland UM-1 would not work in this scenario.

Here's the link for the online dealer (Kelly's) I used. I'm sure thy could tell you if it will work with 4th gen. ipad.

http://kellysmusicandcomputers.com/productinfo~id~1271239385.htm#.UOHsS3y9KSM



Posted by: Nomadness

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 03:46 PM

Here is a good (a bit dated, but still correct) reference, with a list of class-compliant devices that are known to work with iOS via the connection kit:

http://iosmidi.com/devices/

Cheers,
Steve

Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: susanmusic
One likely way to achieve your goal of connecting 107 to ipad midi apps is to use 5 pin midi in/outs with a CLASS COMPLIANT USB-MIDI connector plus ipad camera connection kit plus lightning adapter.

I can't guarantee it will work with the lightning connector. It works fine with my ipad 3 and my DP's 5 pin MIDI jacks. However, I did have to purchase a CLASS COMPLIANT USB-MIDI connector as my Roland UM-1 would not work in this scenario.

Here's the link for the online dealer (Kelly's) I used. I'm sure thy could tell you if it will work with 4th gen. ipad.

http://kellysmusicandcomputers.com/productinfo~id~1271239385.htm#.UOHsS3y9KSM





Thanks v much. I'll have to see what I can get like this in the uk. Much appreciated
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 12/31/12 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Nomadness
Here is a good (a bit dated, but still correct) reference, with a list of class-compliant devices that are known to work with iOS via the connection kit:

http://iosmidi.com/devices/

Cheers,
Steve



Thanks. Will give it a look
Posted by: ZoeCalgary

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/01/13 02:00 PM

Hi doz, I just got the iRig midi device to connect my Yamaha P155 digital piano to my iPad. It comes with 2 cables that have midi jacks on one end and small headphone jacks on the other (these small jacks connect to the iRig device). It worked like a charm. I was able to use the dp to control garage band. It was much funner to use the real piano to play/record a track and then use the iPad to add extra tracks/sounds to it. What I don't think is possible is to get the garage band sounds to cone through the speakers on the P155 (the sound comes out of the iPad). But I use the headphones usually anyway so that's ok.

The iRig Midi is about $70. And it works. It also comes with a midi thru port but I'm not sure how that works yet. Maybe I could hook up 3 things. I have a yamaha keyboard that has rhythms and sounds and maybe I can use the dp as a controller for that board along with other apps on iPad.

There is some good online info on IRig. Take a look. It may be just what you need.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/01/13 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Hi doz, I just got the iRig midi device to connect my Yamaha P155 digital piano to my iPad. It comes with 2 cables that have midi jacks on one end and small headphone jacks on the other (these small jacks connect to the iRig device). It worked like a charm. I was able to use the dp to control garage band. It was much funner to use the real piano to play/record a track and then use the iPad to add extra tracks/sounds to it. What I don't think is possible is to get the garage band sounds to cone through the speakers on the P155 (the sound comes out of the iPad). But I use the headphones usually anyway so that's ok.

The iRig Midi is about $70. And it works. It also comes with a midi thru port but I'm not sure how that works yet. Maybe I could hook up 3 things. I have a yamaha keyboard that has rhythms and sounds and maybe I can use the dp as a controller for that board along with other apps on iPad.

There is some good online info on IRig. Take a look. It may be just what you need.


I don't have iRig midi but have an equivalent that takes midi in and out. The ony disadvantage compared to iRig midi I think, is you can't power the device to charge up the iPad at the same time.

GarageBand piano sound sucks IMHO but the quite cheap piano app, and also GB equivalent, from the same people as IRig midi (IKmultimedia) has surprisingly good piano sounds, and the GB equivalent has lots more capability, function and sounds (although you have to pay for add-ones). Nowhere near the quality of the software VST's costing 10 times and more though.
Posted by: ZoeCalgary

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/01/13 03:35 PM

Spanishbuddha what is the name if the app you are referring to? You're right piano sounds on GarageBand aren't so exciting. But the app for $5 is fun to play with. I'm looking into other iPad apps for better sounds and capabilities. I've read good things for pianist pro but I don't think it works with the iRig setup. More and more apps for music can make the iPad a serious musical tool I think.
Posted by: Stevesie

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/02/13 11:43 PM

I can confirm that an Edirol UM-1X midi interface(in standard driver mode) works with an iPad 4 with an aftermarket(cheap chinese) camera connection kit with card reader and usb interface.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/03/13 04:52 AM

Originally Posted By: ZoeCalgary
Spanishbuddha what is the name if the app you are referring to? You're right piano sounds on GarageBand aren't so exciting. But the app for $5 is fun to play with. I'm looking into other iPad apps for better sounds and capabilities. I've read good things for pianist pro but I don't think it works with the iRig setup. More and more apps for music can make the iPad a serious musical tool I think.

iGrand and/or Sample Tank.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/03/13 12:13 PM

Thanks guys for all the help and advice - I have ordered a couple of cables online that I think should do the trick. Will report back on success / failure when they are delivered and set up, in case anyone is interested.
Much appreciated.
Posted by: doz

Re: Another Ipad connection question - 01/07/13 02:56 PM

Not sure if anyone is interested but (thanks to many here) I have connected my old Roland HP107 to my Ipad4 with the new lightning camera connection kit, in my case using an Alesis USB-Midi cable. Works fine so I can play the piano and use the iPad sounds etc. I have another cable on order to allow me to loop the sound back from the iPad to the piano to play the sounds through the piano rather than iPad.
Thanks again to all for advising etc.
Steve