Starting Over

Posted by: dmd

Starting Over - 01/20/13 08:20 AM

Well, I have now come full circle.

I started with an inexpensive digital piano, graduated to a better (as in more expensive) one, then a console digital piano, then explored midi software sounds with audio device and mixer, powered monitors, additional VSTs, better monitors.

I used the VSTs as the only sound and/or combined the software sounds with my DP sounds. Also combined the VST sounds.

Lots of time and money spent fussing with options in search of the "perfect" sound.

I now have taken the "drastic" step of chucking most of it.

I now have only my DP (ES7) and my Focal CMS 60 nearfield monitors and it seems fine.

At last, ........... I can just play.

At least, for the moment. LOL ...
Posted by: FredrikJ

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 08:26 AM

Are you sure you will not bet a better sound if you just... ? laugh
Posted by: Aeons Holle

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 08:35 AM

My sincere congratulations!
What many crave, you have achieved. May you enjoy playing for a long time to come.
Posted by: CyberGene

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 08:42 AM

Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 09:27 AM

Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


I absolutely believe you.

I think the next round will probably begin with a better sound delivery system.

I think the piano software has reached a point where it is very good.

If I could only get that sound to my ears through the air.

That seems to be the issue.

The sound I hear with the demos is always superb but when I run it through my "stuff" it loses something. Part of it is my ability as a pianist (they always have virtuoso players demoing it) but not all of it.

So, I will probably sit back for awhile and see what develops and watch for a great deal on audio equipment. Not for a while though. I am finished for the time being.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 01:14 PM

dmd, are you still happy with your ES7? I love mine, but I do wish I could get that fabulous sound I hear thru my headphone onto the on board speakers. The only thing i added was a Polk subwoofer. I have it set to produce minimal base but just enough that it compliments the onboard speakers. Not perfect but can get some real good sound going.

Also, I now use my SEN HD380 headphones full time over my Bose buds. After messing around with the Virtual Tech I was able to get the near perfect sound thru them - Wow! The bose are still great if you just turn on the piano to factory default.

My only con I can say is just wish the ES7 came with CP300 speakers. It would probably be the best portable DP ever.
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 01:36 PM

Marko: The ES7 sound is what is allowing me to discard all that other sound software and equipment. I think it is a great sound. Not perfect, of course (lol), but very good.

As you said, the speakers are not the best but they work for very low volume. I use my Focal CMS 60 monitors and this gets me to a place where I enjoy playing. I mix the sound of the monitors and speakers periodically for variation.

And, yes ... the sound thru phones is the nearest thing to perfect I have heard. That usually is the case for most DPs I think.

The bottom line is I am doing more playing and less analyzing sound quality.

Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 01:55 PM

I totally understand. It can make your head spin trying to find the perfect sound. I went thru this when trying to shop for the best DP. The ES7 is great professional instrument and we need to enjoy it, appreciate it, and play like crazy :-)
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 02:16 PM

Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


This is a 12 half step program.
Posted by: CyberGene

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: CyberGene
Hi digitalpianoholics anonymous community. My name is Evgeny. This is not the end. BELIEVE me! laugh It'll start over and over again...


This is a 12 half step program.


laugh
Posted by: mitzysman

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 03:00 PM

sounds like a nice idea to simplify. I find that b/c my DP is 10 years old the VST really are good for my setup. If I had an ES7 i might feel differntly. On another note, are you selling any VST's ? American D ?
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: mitzysman
I find that b/c my DP is 10 years old the VST really are good for my setup. If I had an ES7 i might feel differntly.


Absolutely. Prior to my purchase of the ES7 I did not have a sound I could live with as a steady diet.


Quote:
On another note, are you selling any VST's ? American D ?


I might consider it. However, it may turn out that the process I and the buyer have to go through to do it legally is not worth the little bit a buyer would wish to pay.

American D ? I don't have that.
Posted by: o0Ampy0o

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: dmd
The sound I hear with the demos is always superb but when I run it through my "stuff" it loses something. Part of it is my ability as a pianist (they always have virtuoso players demoing it) but not all of it.

My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.
Posted by: origen

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 05:42 PM

I highly recommend using a pair of mid 90s bookshelf speakers, this may sound a little like sacrilege but I use a pair of mid range yamaha bookshelf's and they crank, I dont need a subwoofer and they'll shake the room with piano bass if I need em too and they sound crisp. The highs sound like a piano should and the lows boom, I am not a fan of many current "monitor" speakers as they lack the ability to "move air" at least from my experience. Ive listened through Rockets, Martin Logans, and Def Techs, but nothing pushes out the piano sound like my old Yamahas. Speakers just dont seem to be made like they used to, even the expensive ones.
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 06:09 PM

I wouldn't condemn speakers for "not being made like they used to". But I have to agree with you about "moving air". Monitors don't cut it for me, either.

Speakers need to be big enough for the room in which they perform. I use a pair of bookshelf speakers (Polks) and a pair of floor-standing speakers (JBLs). Up to a point, bigger is better.
Posted by: PianoWorksATL

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 06:24 PM

May I recommend an acoustic piano? There isn't a speaker system yet that can compete with even a mid-level baby grand for sound delivery.

Oops, wrong forum... wink
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 06:29 PM

These last two responses are all about ... LOUD ! BOOMING !

I am not interested in shaking the house.

I am looking for clear, clean, and tinkly (is that a word ?).

What I have (ES7) will pretty much give me that through my phones.

However, through its' speakers it becomes a little buzzed. It loses some of its' body.

Through my monitors it holds up better, but even there it thins out when it becomes loud.

Like I said, it is pretty good right now. I just spent the last year or two striving for better. I may not be able to do that without considerable more investment in either equipment or a higher level DP ... as in Yamaha NU1, etc ...
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
May I recommend an acoustic piano? There isn't a speaker system yet that can compete with even a mid-level baby grand for sound delivery.


Well, that is not an impossibility, though remote.

However, after learning to play on a digital piano and trying to play a little on acoustic pianos in music stores, I have the sense that playing on an acoustic is pretty much out of the question. My technique has developed in a totally different environment and it would take a complete retooling to adjust to the sensitivity of an acoustic.
Posted by: dmd

Re: Starting Over - 01/20/13 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.


Well, if I haven't been able to find the right software (see below), it is proving extremely elusive. I have most of the popular ones.

Also, I do not think that software makes a bad player sound good. I think it is the other way around. I think a good player makes software (I won't say it is bad software) sound better than a bad player does.

The problem we (or I anyway) have is that we don't seem to be able to collaborate directly on these sounds. It would be very interesting for me to go where someone has their dp and software running, hear what they sound like with it, play it myself and see what I hear. It may be that these accolades we hear about various sounds are so very subjective that we would never agree on what sounds "good".
Posted by: o0Ampy0o

Re: Starting Over - 01/21/13 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
My take on your situation is that you did not find the right piano software. I hear demos and they can sound good and bad but if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having. Some show every weakness in the player. I think the piano sounds great with a specific plug-in so I play better.......I noodle and like the sound. Someday I will play piano.

...I do not think that software makes a bad player sound good. I think it is the other way around. I think a good player makes software (I won't say it is bad software) sound better than a bad player does.

I wish I had worded my point clearer. Although I said, "if the software makes a bad player sound good it is worth having." That should be interpreted as if it can make a bad player sound good.... It was not intended as a blanket statement, as in good software makes bad players sound good. I was speaking to the ability of software to make a bad player sound better. This is done by characteristics in the software over other characteristics and because sometimes the bad player (like me) performs his best when the sound has certain characteristics. I cannot even play a complete song yet.......I only noodle around. If the piano sound makes that noodling sound good I'm in. I have other software that mercilessly demands skill. The sound is stellar but it does not help me at all.