How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64

Posted by: Dr Popper

How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 03:17 AM

This is what they have been hiding for a while ....
Very interesting concept this one ... it's a great controller BTW.

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-64





Posted by: Kawai James

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 03:26 AM

Pretty cool. Gets a thumbs-up from me. wink

James
x
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 03:58 AM

Interesting, let's see the price and weight. Also what's the 'panic' key for?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 04:32 AM

Weight is about 12kgs ... price is expected to be around $750 street
Posted by: sullivang

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 05:00 AM

Looks like just the thing many of us have been asking for! (big thumbs up from me for ending on an A in the bass, too)

Greg.
Posted by: Vectistim

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 05:30 AM

I think a bottom G or F would have been more sensible, I have lots of harpsichord music that likes to finish with a bottom G.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 05:39 AM

Judging from the promo pics, Roland are not targeting this model at harpsichord players...
Posted by: sullivang

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 05:40 AM

Vectsim: Yes, there have been others asking for that too. Oh well - I'm glad I got what I wanted. wink

Btw, I guess most of us would have preferred PHAIII.

I might sell my Kawai MP9000 and get one of these now. Will still have PX-330 for full-size board.
EDIT: On second thoughts - no. The minimum for me is 76 keys. (still with A in the bass)

Greg.
Posted by: Rhodie73

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 08:02 AM

This looks interesting indeed! If the price is right as Dr. Popper has suggested (street $750),I might pick one up when they're available. Just have to hold out for NAMM and see if Yamaha does something similar with a lighter more compact CP5 update.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 08:04 AM

{See later post. Reconsidering first impression.}
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 08:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Judging from the promo pics, Roland are not targeting this model at harpsichord players...


smile
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Why did they throw all the controls on the left side of the keys, adding another eight inches of length to the board? That works against the purpose of going down to 64 keys.

That said, I'm interested in trying this. It may still be marginally better for traveling than a PX-x50.
.

Thats a good point- you could fit 8-9 more keys in that space.
They could have made this 88 keys easily though. It still would have been light.

(insert sarcasim here Possum) On the other hand, they have been reading the numerous posts on this board clamoring for the first ever 64 note weighted keyboard.
Posted by: Possum SP280Krome

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Possum PX130
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Why did they throw all the controls on the left side of the keys, adding another eight inches of length to the board? That works against the purpose of going down to 64 keys.

That said, I'm interested in trying this. It may still be marginally better for traveling than a PX-x50.
.

Thats a good point- you could fit 8-9 more keys in that space.
They could have made this 88 keys easily though. It still would have been light.

(insert sarcasim here Possum) On the other hand, they have been reading the numerous posts on this board clamoring for the first ever 64 note weighted keyboard.



At 28.4 pounds it is only 3 pounds lighter than the Krome, really only a few pounds lighter than the FP4 and certainly heavier than any Privia or Pxx5 Yamaha.

Is the bag the major attraction? I don't remember the other videos showing trunks of cars.

Is this all we are getting from Roland???
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 09:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Possum PX130
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Why did they throw all the controls on the left side of the keys, adding another eight inches of length to the board? That works against the purpose of going down to 64 keys.

That said, I'm interested in trying this. It may still be marginally better for traveling than a PX-x50.
.

Thats a good point- you could fit 8-9 more keys in that space.
They could have made this 88 keys easily though. It still would have been light.

(insert sarcasim here Possum) On the other hand, they have been reading the numerous posts on this board clamoring for the first ever 64 note weighted keyboard.


My point is the opposite -- by putting the controls across the top, they could have ended up with the first truly portable, piano-like DP.

It's hard to see how this is any more portable than my PX-350, but I'll wait for specs to reach a firm conclusion on that point.
Posted by: Funky Dave

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 10:12 AM

I reckon this will be a very popular little piano, but I think that Roland have shot themselves in the foot by not including a MIDI in socket. There must be loads of keyboard players with 88 note synths or master keyboards who would welcome an inexpensive way to add Roland's Supernatural piano sound to their setup. This would have fitted the bill nicely for a lot of people, but you can't play it from another MIDI instrument - D'oh!
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 12:13 PM

Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Originally Posted By: Possum PX130
Originally Posted By: ClsscLib
Why did they throw all the controls on the left side of the keys, adding another eight inches of length to the board? That works against the purpose of going down to 64 keys.

That said, I'm interested in trying this. It may still be marginally better for traveling than a PX-x50.
.

Thats a good point- you could fit 8-9 more keys in that space.
They could have made this 88 keys easily though. It still would have been light.

(insert sarcasim here Possum) On the other hand, they have been reading the numerous posts on this board clamoring for the first ever 64 note weighted keyboard.


My point is the opposite -- by putting the controls across the top, they could have ended up with the first truly portable, piano-like DP.

It's hard to see how this is any more portable than my PX-350, but I'll wait for specs to reach a firm conclusion on that point.


By my back-of-the envelope reckoning, the decision to put the controls on the left adds about six seemingly unnecessary inches to the width of the board (if you think about it as a missed opportunity for enhancing portability by running the controls across the top). Looking at it as Possum PX130 does, it takes away 10 or 11 keys that could otherwise have been included in the same package.

ON THE OTHER HAND, the only other "travel piano" in the ballpark (to my knowledge) is the NP-11. The NP-11 is great for what it is, but that isn't a lot. Unweighted keys, few (if any) usable sounds, little polyphony, etc., etc., etc.

Again, by my rough, back-of-the envelope reckoning, this Roland should be only an inch or two wider than the NP-11 and will offer LOTS more to the serious player. (The NP-11 has 61 keys, but it has speakers at either end of the keyboard, adding more width than the Roland controls.)

In other words, while I'd love for this instrument to be as portable as it could be (or to offer more keys on the same chassis), it may still be a vast improvement on anything else in that niche.

I'm getting interested again, and I look forward to seeing specs and the beast itself.
Posted by: MVshabeer2

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 12:18 PM

Looks cool!. But 64 keys isn't deal maker for me smile

Kurzweil gonna show K3000 & a DP

http://kurzweil.com/news/49/
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 12:25 PM

64 keys clearly isn't geared for the classical player, but I think this is a great option for gigging players. I like the controls to the left where you can access them with the left hand without getting in the way.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Hideki Matsui
64 keys clearly isn't geared for the classical player, but I think this is a great option for gigging players. I like the controls to the left where you can access them with the left hand without getting in the way.


I see your point. From a gigging pianist's perspective, the control setup is a plus.

I am a classical player (mostly), and I'm looking at this strictly from the perspective of someone who would love to have a decent and portable travel piano on which to practice when the real thing isn't available. That's why I wish they'd saved (or used) the space on the left by not putting controls there.

As I say, I do see your point, though.
Posted by: bluebilly

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 01:24 PM

It seems Roland listen to their customers, finally a quality travel piano. Here in the UK going for around £699.00, not even expensive... good old Roland.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 01:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Funky Dave
... not including a MIDI in socket


No MIDI in socket? It has a USB connector, and I am pretty sure that this is good for MIDI in.
Posted by: dewster

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 01:35 PM

Maybe they were finally able to knock a bit of sense into their dopy joystick real estate department, but too late to actually put something useful (like, oh I don't know, keys maybe?) down there instead.

I like the bass end like a real piano, needs 76 keys though.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 02:02 PM

I agree that controls on the left eliminates some of the "advantage" of having a 64-key weighted board, but it was presumably pre-determined by the design of the A-88 from which it looks to have been physically derived.
Posted by: Hideki Matsui

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 02:24 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Maybe they were finally able to knock a bit of sense into their dopy joystick real estate department, but too late to actually put something useful (like, oh I don't know, keys maybe?) down there instead.

I like the bass end like a real piano, needs 76 keys though.


Roland's controller setups are some of the best I've used. These aren't really being built with the piano player in mind. They are geared toward keyboard players who need the controls to be in a practical place that is accessible while playing. I don't like it when modulation controls are placed on top of the keybed.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I agree that controls on the left eliminates some of the "advantage" of having a 64-key weighted board, but it was presumably pre-determined by the design of the A-88 from which it looks to have been physically derived.


If that's right (as it seems to be), the elimination of 14 white keys from the A-88 chassis should make the width of this new Roland about 44 inches. Here are the specs on the A-88:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/A88

By contrast, the width of the NP-11 is about 41 inches:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NP11

.
Posted by: NoviceJazzer

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/21/13 02:36 PM

I can see one of these on the bottom tier, with the new VR-09 organ on the top tier being a popular gigging rig. Between the two of them you have all the bread and butter requirements for a cover band.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/22/13 03:07 AM

+1
Posted by: Bob M

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 01/24/13 12:35 PM

Sixty four keys with A at the bottom? I think I can see why. Hit the octave shift button on the panel and you have the same familiar array as on a piano. The lowest C, Eflat , G are right where you expect them to be.
Posted by: ctnski

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/06/13 09:50 PM

Interesting product; but being longer than necessary and thus exceeding the ATA limit of 62 inches (when put into a travel case), as well as starting on A instead of F, make this a deal-breaker for me.

I am on my third Roland (FP-7F), and would really love to see them make a truly travel-friendly keyboard with weighted keys and a classically oriented 5-octave compass (F-F). If they had repositioned the controls to the top, they could have accommodated a few more keys (F-C, 68 keys) and still keep it short enough to fit into an ATA case smaller than 62 total inches.

Guess I'll keep wishing.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/06/13 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Bob M
Sixty four keys with A at the bottom? I think I can see why. Hit the octave shift button on the panel and you have the same familiar array as on a piano. The lowest C, Eflat , G are right where you expect them to be.

Yes, with octave shift, at the bottom, it exactly matches the bottom of a piano (A), and at the top, it exactly matches the top of a piano (C). It's also the same span as the Wurlitzer electric piano. The 76 (+1) key VAX is also basically A to C. It means that every note of the piano's 88 is available within two octave settings. Any other set of 76 notes would require three settings to cover all 88 keys. Likewise with the Roland, you can go up or down an octave from standard, and reach all 88 notes. Anything other than A-to-C, you would need a fourth octave setting to reach the last notes.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/07/13 12:09 AM

Makes perfect sense when you put It like that
Posted by: theJourney

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/07/13 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: ctnski
Interesting product; but being longer than necessary and thus exceeding the ATA limit of 62 inches (when put into a travel case


This is the problem, again and again.
Posted by: ctnski

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/08/13 10:36 PM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: ctnski
Interesting product; but being longer than necessary and thus exceeding the ATA limit of 62 inches (when put into a travel case


This is the problem, again and again.


Needn't be so.

Can it really be so difficult to make a shorter version of an FP-7F, with keys running out to both ends and controls at the top?

This is how you do it: start with a 62-inch travel case (say, 44 x 12 x 6) and design a keyboard with as many keys as will fit into it. Make it as high quality as the full-size boards, with weighted keys and great piano sounds. It would weigh about 25 lbs, less than 40 lbs. in its case, and would be the only product on the market that could be advertised as a travel-friendly piano.

Even better, design a dedicated case that could easily be converted into a stand, flip it over and set the piano on top and design some retractable legs into the case. Make the whole package under 50 lbs. and 62 inches. Sell a bunch, I just know you would.

I keep hoping.
Posted by: ClsscLib

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/09/13 08:29 AM

Originally Posted By: ctnski
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: ctnski
Interesting product; but being longer than necessary and thus exceeding the ATA limit of 62 inches (when put into a travel case


This is the problem, again and again.


Needn't be so.

Can it really be so difficult to make a shorter version of an FP-7F, with keys running out to both ends and controls at the top?

This is how you do it: start with a 62-inch travel case (say, 44 x 12 x 6) and design a keyboard with as many keys as will fit into it. Make it as high quality as the full-size boards, with weighted keys and great piano sounds. It would weigh about 25 lbs, less than 40 lbs. in its case, and would be the only product on the market that could be advertised as a travel-friendly piano.

Even better, design a dedicated case that could easily be converted into a stand, flip it over and set the piano on top and design some retractable legs into the case. Make the whole package under 50 lbs. and 62 inches. Sell a bunch, I just know you would.

I keep hoping.


I can guarantee that you'd sell at least one!

On the ATA issue, I believe this Roland fits into some hardshell cases designed for 61-key controllers. I do not know whether those cases meet the ATA standards.
Posted by: ctnski

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/09/13 09:20 AM

I own just such a case, an SKB hardshell with wheels, designed for 61-key controllers. Unfortunately, it measures 45 x 18 x 7, for a total of 70 inches.

Again, one only needs to start with a case of maximum dimensions, then design the keyboard with maximum number of keys to fit in said case. Elementary.
Posted by: dewster

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/09/13 09:44 AM

Originally Posted By: ctnski
This is how you do it: start with a 62-inch travel case (say, 44 x 12 x 6) and design a keyboard with as many keys as will fit into it. Make it as high quality as the full-size boards, with weighted keys and great piano sounds. It would weigh about 25 lbs, less than 40 lbs. in its case, and would be the only product on the market that could be advertised as a travel-friendly piano.

Even better, design a dedicated case that could easily be converted into a stand, flip it over and set the piano on top and design some retractable legs into the case. Make the whole package under 50 lbs. and 62 inches. Sell a bunch, I just know you would.

Even better, build the DP into the flight case. They used to do this sort of thing, not sure why they don't anymore - like everything else DP I suppose it makes too much sense.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/09/13 10:55 AM

Originally Posted By: ctnski
Can it really be so difficult to make a shorter version of an FP-7F, with keys running out to both ends and controls at the top?

This is how you do it: start with a 62-inch travel case (say, 44 x 12 x 6) and design a keyboard with as many keys as will fit into it. Make it as high quality as the full-size boards, with weighted keys and great piano sounds. It would weigh about 25 lbs

A short version of an FP-74 still wouldn't weight 25 lbs. At 88 keys, its 53 pounds. So you'd probably have to get down to around a minuscule 44 keys to get to that 25 lb range. But as for lighter weight boards, it is a shame that they built the RD-64 around the A-88 foundation (with controls on the left) instead of the FP-4F foundation (with controls behind). But in terms of re-purposing existing designs, functionally/electronically, the A-88 had the controller functionality, so you can see where that choice came from. So I guess then the argument could be made that, even for the A-88, they should have designed it with the controls behind. After all, that board is arguably annoyingly long for what it is as well! Maybe for some reason, it was just cheaper to manufacture that way, with a short control panel to the left of the keys instead of a long narrow control panel behind.
Posted by: ctnski

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/09/13 09:49 PM

I agree with all of that. The shorter 'board should be a shortened FP-4, not an FP-7. Whatever the rationale for putting the controls to the left, doing so lost them at least one sale.

Dewster, making the keyboard integral with the case would be a great way to maximize its size. Just want it to include some fold-down legs so the whole thing is a usable package. No use having a travel piano if you have no stand to set it up on.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/10/13 04:25 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
...that board is arguably annoyingly long for what it is as well! Maybe for some reason, it was just cheaper to manufacture that way, with a short control panel to the left of the keys instead of a long narrow control panel behind.


Yes. There seems to be a lot of that going around: forget what consumers' needs are, just build it at the highest possible profit margin.
Posted by: Temperament

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/10/13 04:45 AM

+1

One small step in the right direction is the announcement of the Studiologic Acuna73. But not in the same league (2 sensor controller only; TP100 Fatar keybed with a little short keys).
But very light, seems right priced and focused on an interface as a control device right. (But not generic, iPad support only).already on sale (in Italy)?
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/10/13 10:47 AM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
...that board is arguably annoyingly long for what it is as well! Maybe for some reason, it was just cheaper to manufacture that way, with a short control panel to the left of the keys instead of a long narrow control panel behind.


Yes. There seems to be a lot of that going around: forget what consumers' needs are, just build it at the highest possible profit margin.

Well, profit is why they build things at all, and Roland is not exactly swimming in an abundance of profit these days. I wonder if they would sell many more of these things (A88, RD64, A49) if they had put the controls up above the keys, but they had to charge $50-$100 more, for example, and whether they had considered that option. But then again, Roland has a history of making products I find "almost" great but with a few unfortunate design decisions.
Posted by: dewster

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/10/13 10:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Temperament
One small step in the right direction is the announcement of the Studiologic Acuna73. But not in the same league (2 sensor controller only; TP100 Fatar keybed with a little short keys).

Studiologic & Fatar - a match made in heaven. wink
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/10/13 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster

Studiologic & Fatar - a match made in heaven. wink

I believe they are two divisions of the same company.
Posted by: JFP

Re: How about a 64 key piano ... ? Rolands new RD-64 - 03/11/13 04:09 AM

With all due respect , but if you look at the B-stock list of the big web shops, you'll be surprised how many Nano's and other Studiologic TP100 boards are send back. Not a good sign IMHO. If they would ramp up support and communication with their customer base , things might improve, but they always seem to be living in a cave underground as far as support / updates etc are concerned. If your unit is OK and the software works for you, you can have a nice , light and cheap board. If not - you're on your own. Fatar/SL should start living in the 21st century ...