Why do you hate a williams?

Posted by: TecFlip

Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 09:05 AM

Ive heard person after person bashing and smashing William's dp's. I have played with a few, and even own the allegro, and they seem perfectly alright with me. Most have better key leverage that most lower and mid ranged dps', the sound all right (with headphones or monitors) and feel solid in the action and in the construction. So what do you not like about them?
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 09:34 AM

I see them at my local GC for $299. I played one for a minute or two. I would not bash it, but I certainly would not want to buy it. You can get much better quality keyboard action, technology, polyphony, etc for a few hundred more.

This guy seems to favor Casio in most reviews, but read it for what it's worth:
http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2011/04/williams-allegro-casio-cdp100-digital.html

.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: TecFlip
So what do you not like about them?


Ummm the sound the action and the everything else .... They are rubbish
Posted by: ando

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 10:22 AM

The hate came from a member named "Gyro". He used to come on here and say his Williams was suitable for the most demanding piano concerto, and he'd say it practically every time he ventured on this forum. People lost patience with him. If it weren't for him, I'd say Williams would barely rate a mention around here as this forum generally focusses on mid- to high-end DPs. I think it's just a case of you get what you pay for. If you are happy with what you got for your money, you have every right to defend your purchase.
Posted by: TecFlip

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 10:31 AM

Well, i know im not going to be saying hate anymore:) It just makes me curious why people feel so appaled by them.
Posted by: Sand Tiger

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 10:36 AM

It tends to be an emotional response. A person can go to any hobby, and the enthusiasts will tend to have a visceral dislike for low-priced chain-store brands. Some go as far as sneering at those that buy the low end items. I have no problem with the choice as long as people go in with their eyes open. There are reasons why the units are cheaper and there are valid and objective criticisms.

Sure there are better units at 2x or 3x the price, but for some people you may as well tell them to travel to the moon to get their unit. Folks with money (and most regulars on this forum have some money) often have little idea how difficult it is to come up with $500 or $1000 (vs. coming up with $200 or $300).

Yes, it would be nice if all could afford the $500 or $1000 units, or $3000 units for that matter, but not everyone can. At $300, there isn't much to choose from, and at the recent sale price of $200, there isn't much downside. If it doesn't work out, they can likely sell the instrument for about what they put in.
Posted by: mitzysman

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 11:50 AM

if you are looking for cheap you are much better off with Casio that Williams - they sound like something from 20 years ago to me
Posted by: PianoWorksATL

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 12:18 PM

I guess when I consider the product has both poor action and poor sound, for that budget, I'd rather get at least one thing right. There are touch sensitive keyboards with reasonably good sounds for that price and much better overall quality. So its more than just money, it's my philosophy of value. I'd rather have a good toy than a bad tool. When quality gets too low, price becomes irrelevant. Many people cannot get past price.

I recently had to advise this to a charitable organization that their money was better spent on some affordable keyboards over inadequate alternatives. I also gave advice to another school on how they needed to spend enough in some areas to save much more overall, but they went for the cheaper alternative because they couldn't see beyond the short-term cost.
Posted by: 36251

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 12:20 PM

Maybe people here who know what quality feels like and sounds like, dislike them cause we witness so people (families) buying them without taking the time to get opinions and understand their options.
Posted by: toddy

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 01:56 PM

If these pianos are at least reliable, then they are perhaps good value. They would deliver a piano like sound. according to key velocity and give the impression of weight and resistance such as found on a cheaper upright, say.

But I totally agree with Sand Tiger that we can, in giving out sound knowledgeable advice, forget just how tight another person's budget might be.

We should be grateful that Casio make products of real quality for such low prices, but even they are considerably more than these rock bottom items like Williams or Gear4You/Thomman's 'own' brands.

When I was looking for a DP, I started from the bottom up, convinced that the low end Casio or Yamaha would do everything I wanted. But when I looked into it, I came out with a Roland because it felt and sounded miles better than the others in the same range. So I spent the comparative fortune of €1350 on the piano.

But I spend many hours with it, very aware of the weighting and sensitivity of the keys, and of the quality of sounds. I think that's similar to the experience of many here. However, when it comes to almost any other item - razors, food stuffs, bike, clothes etc, I get the cheapest possible, or second hand.

So the fact some people are perfectly happy with the Williams - so long as it is reliable and durable enough, should be no surprise. They have in fact, got themselves a good deal.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 05:03 PM

Sometimes it's wiser to buy used, if it means better quality.
Posted by: toddy

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 05:32 PM

Yes - second hand should be the first option, I think, except where technological development is galloping. But it isn't galloping with DPs - it's trotting at most. Even so, for me to get SN piano sound and PHAII keyboard meant buying new.

And second hand goods are habitually overpriced here in Portugal - I think people prefer to give their cast-offs through the family network, or hang on to stuff - it's strange.
Posted by: PianoWorksATL

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Sometimes it's wiser to buy used, if it means better quality.
I would take most 5-year old P85 or PX-110/120 DP's over a new Williams.
Posted by: Jeff Clef

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/02/13 08:36 PM

Ah, the immortal Gyro. He was tolerated by the mods for years, who felt he had a right to be as loopy as he wanted to be, and by the members on this forum (mildly ridiculed as a harmless crank)... until [1] a newbie with a very limited budget actually took his stupid advice, and bought a Williams. He hated it, of course, and was now stuck with it, hurt or not, and the forum members got pretty mad at Gyro. He had long had a tendency to target new members who didn't know any better--- I thought it was predatory.

Besides that, [2] he started giving out medical advice to people having RSI problems, or other pain issues. And at that point, the mods had a Come to Jesus moment, and Gyro's posting privileges were revoked.

Williams was never well favored for its quality, but Gyro's endorsement put a stink on it which has not yet worn off. The name is a sock, of course, for an Asian maker; I looked it up once, but have now forgotten the name. And the poor newbie had bought it from a company across an international border to save money, and couldn't even return it. I felt so sorry for him (I've been him), and only hope that it turned out to be a cheap lesson on the value of free advice from a faceless stranger on the internet. Present company excepted, of course.
Posted by: TecFlip

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/03/13 02:28 AM

I agree that Williams are rock bottom. But, and it seems there is always a but, I've had expensive and cheap dp's, and SOME mid range casio and yamahas sound and feel like junk. I had the cdp 120, hated it and got my yamaha ypg 235 back. In my opinion, a few of the williams seems to be miles ahead for their price range. I apologize for my rambling smile
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/03/13 04:02 AM

I miss Gyro he was hilarious ...but now we have KataiYubi who is easily just as much of a complete tool ....
Posted by: Aidan

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/03/13 06:38 AM

Ah, wondered what happened to our 'friend' Gyro. Missed his medical advice phase smile

I know it's tempting to be able to get something shiny and new when the budget is tight, but please listen to the advice here. For the same money, you're going to be able to find something far better on the second-hand market from a mainstream manufacturer.
Posted by: rnaple

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/03/13 06:14 PM

I've read the opinions here on Williams. I shyed away from them. You see what I got. It works, for now. I do want better. Don't need better just yet.
In November, I was in So. Cal. Tried out a Williams at a store. I was less than not impressed. I'd rather have what I got. I thank the honest people here for their opinions.

I don't hate Williams because I don't own Williams.

I'm another who goofed up because of Gyro. I got a little used casio toy. Thought I could get into beginnings of learning with it. It was so bad I couldn't. It was a few bucks wasted. No big deal. At least it was just a few. Money was that tight for me. I also admit what I got is the basis of money also. I didn't waste my money on this. Looking forward to an upgrade soon.
Posted by: TecFlip

Re: Why do you hate a williams? - 02/03/13 08:28 PM

In all honesty, i took my allergo back because one of the keys went "klunk." So I got a P-35B instead. Loads difference.