RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX

Posted by: zapper

RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/05/13 07:39 PM

Hi,
I just upgraded my RD700GX with SN Kit and I'm not sure
if the result is the same as SN in RD700NX. Let say
I don't see that much of a difference in piano sound comparing to what I have had already. Anybody here put that SN PinoKit into GX?
thanks
Posted by: dewster

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 11:19 AM

Originally Posted By: zapper
Let say I don't see that much of a difference in piano sound comparing to what I have had already.

They evidently used the same sampling sessions for both SN and non-SN, which can lead to some confusion. There was a RD-700GX YouTube video when the SN expansion card first came out where a guy played identical parts of songs with both SN and non-SN. To the casual listener there was almost no difference, heck I could barely hear any difference via good headphones, but the songs he picked probably weren't the best to showcase the benefits of SN. IMO SN really shines on slow intimate pieces, single sustained noted, etc.

Ah, here it is:
Posted by: pianomike

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 11:42 AM

I,ve got the nx sound chip or card in my gx,I think the piano sound is better in the nx than with the sound card in the gx but not by much. The superior grand and ultimate grand pianos that come with the gx are allmost as good and to some people just as good as the nx piano sounds, having said that to me the action on the gx is better than the nx, the only problem is that it bottoms out to hard.The best sounding nx sound I have heard off the computer is on the new rd 64 from roland, maybe because there are not alot of sounds to take power from the sound engine if that is possible,the only thing Im wondering about is the action,on the demos it looked like they were banging the crap out of the piano.
Posted by: zapper

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 12:03 PM

thanks for posting video Dewster. To be honest Expressive Ground sounds better to me then Super Natural - maybe it's required to adjust or set all parameters of SN in piano designer???
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 02:49 PM

Expressive Grand is really unpleasant in my view. Roland didn't use it on any other DP. I had the GX and upgraded it with the SN expansion board. You have to immerse yourself in it to really appreciate what Roland have done with SN. There are subtleties that are not immediately apparent. Just as Dewster says, it is the slow, intimate pieces that allow SN to shine.

All that said you still have to like the underlying tonality of the piano. In my opinion almost all the SN voices are based on the Superior Grand sound which in its original state (pre SN) was a really good sounding darkish Steinway but blighted with the usual DP defects such as looping and audible velocity layers. Something went wrong with the SN implementation only insofar as a cluster of notes in the mid-range react differently to higher velocities - it doesn't seem to bother most users but it was a deal-breaker for me and the reason I got rid of my GX. But the SN benefits of no looping and smooth velocity transitions are very impressive - still state-of-the-art for hardware DPs.
Posted by: dje31

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 05:09 PM

Somebody---probably Zac, as I think he had a GX with the SN upgrade way back when, pre-Nord---probably knows the specifics, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now. But if expandability matters to you, the expansion slots were removed on the NX.

You can put the SN board in the GX, and I think there's still at least one more open slot, but I may be totally wrong on this. You can still get the other SRX exp boards, which may be helpful if you're gigging and only want to schlep one board with you.

EDIT: I'm apparently also too lazy to realize you already have one, and upgraded...still, the NX definitely doesn't have expansion slots anymore...of that I'm sure.
Posted by: dewster

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: zapper
thanks for posting video Dewster. To be honest Expressive Ground sounds better to me then Super Natural - maybe it's required to adjust or set all parameters of SN in piano designer???

Listening to that video now it seems like the audio really isn't the best to showcase what SN is capable of.

My advice would be to pick the cleanest & simplest sounding base piano voice on the expansion card (not necessarily the main one - on our NX it's the "Studio Grand") then turn off the reverb and any other effects, and turn the sympathetic resonance effects WAY up, particularly the pedal resonance. Play some slow stuff. It can sound quite detailed, dynamic, and fairly realistic (certainly more realistic than any looper out there IMO). Pedaling events sound fairly real to me too (in terms of how the strings react).
Posted by: PianoZac

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 07:26 PM

The sound is almost identical. I owned both at the same time, had both set up next to each other and ended up packing up the NX as it wasn't worth upgrading. The NX didn't drop notes quite as bad as the GXF, and the 3rd sensor is welcomed in the PHA III action vs the PHA II in the GXF. But they feel identical and the sound is all but the same. I do miss my GXF. For a stay-at-home slab DP, the RD-700 GXF/NX and Kawai MP10 are the best out there IMHO.
Posted by: offnote

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 09:17 PM

Well, roland knows how to sell same thing twice in different package....
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/06/13 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: offnote
Well, roland knows how to sell same thing twice in different package....


Not really, as Zachary notes above: the original GX utilises the PHAII action, while the NX features the latest PHAIII action. There are a number of other improvements to the NX - GX users were given the choice of upgrading their existing board with SuperNatural sound, or purchasing a brand new instrument. Personally, I think this was a highly commendable move from Roland.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: zapper

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 03:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Not really, as Zachary notes above: the original GX utilises the PHAII action, while the NX features the latest PHAIII action. There are a number of other improvements to the NX - GX users were given the choice of upgrading their existing board with SuperNatural sound, or purchasing a brand new instrument. Personally, I think this was a highly commendable move from Roland.

Cheers,
James
x


really? taking away SRX slots is improvement?
Posted by: toddy

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 03:43 AM

Is there anything to put in the slots that will improve the NX? Are SRX slots 'universal' - might there be new expansions on the horizon?
Posted by: zapper

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 05:42 AM

Originally Posted By: toddy
Is there anything to put in the slots that will improve the NX?


you could put one or two of those if NX had a SRX slot.

Posted by: toddy

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 09:05 AM

Ah, so the answer is clearly, 'yes'...thanks for the information. But is this an exclusively Roland system?
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 10:20 AM

The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets
Posted by: dewster

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets

It doesn't need no stinkin' slots for lame SRX samples, that's for sure!

It could use more SN sounds though: harpsichord, pipe organ, drums, harp, strings, brass - I guess I'm largely describing the Jupiter (but with hammer action keys). An all SN stage DP would be awesome!
Posted by: toddy

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 12:40 PM

Why do the SRX slots stink?
Posted by: dewster

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
Why do the SRX slots stink?

Guessing, but probably too few address lines to fit good sized samples on them. Which directly causes the SRX sample sets to stink. Rickety old school crap compared to SN, good riddance.
Posted by: offnote

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets


Really? I don't think so, V-piano is a class better so there is room obviously for improvement.
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/07/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: offnote
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The NX has no slots and requires no improvement really... It's about as good as it gets


Really? I don't think so, V-piano is a class better so there is room obviously for improvement.


The V is massively overpriced ... and its piano not as good as the RD
Posted by: offnote

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/08/13 03:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
...and its piano not as good as the RD


You wish, I assume you are joking....
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/08/13 05:19 PM

He isn't joking. And I think he's absolutely right.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/08/13 07:55 PM

Me too. V piano's a fun idea and for a modeled piano it's an impressive implementation but it doesn't sound as natural/realistic as the RD to me. Of course, I've only listened to recordings, never played it.

I don't agree that the RD is as good as it can be, but it's pretty good for a hardware piano.
Posted by: torhu

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/08/13 09:42 PM

It would help if they fixed the Concert Grand sound (as it's generally much richer than the Studio Grand sound, the bass register is amazing). And made it less of a health risk to carry by yourself, of course.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: RD-700GX SuperNATURAL PianoKit versus SN in RD-700NX - 02/09/13 12:30 AM

It is richer. That's why that A/Ab (+5 & 6th above middle C) metallic clank/buzz noise bugs the heck out of me. If I want to get a 700NX, it would be for the fuller, richer Concert Grand, not the Studio Grand, which doesn't have the *clank*.

Hopefully in the fall they'll update and fix that. In spite of the weight I would buy one if they did. It's a really nice sound for a dp.