Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1

Posted by: titowsky

Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 02:49 PM

Hello everybody!
I am an italian pianist who is working as engineer for a long period in Germany.
4 months ago, looking for the best digital piano, I tried many of them and at the end I bought a new Kaway CA95 of which I am still quite safisfied.
But... the action is not really convincing for me: I like the sound, the colors that I am able to create... of course it is neither my Yamaha Silent nor my C7, but for my current need to train my fingers it works!

My question: could I find in Yamaha NU1 a significantly better action (which for me is really the most important thing, sometime I am also used to play it without hearing anything, just to "feel my fingers") and at least a comparable sound (I really do not care about other options the Kaway may have)?
Unfortunately I still did not have the opportunity to try it, but I am very interested in maybe changing my Kaway.

Thank you for any advice and above any experienced comparison you could provide!
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 03:40 PM

I think only you can answer this.

I have an NU1. I like the key action, but it is not as smooth and quiet as the CA93 ( I have not tried the 95) action. Compared to most DP actions it is quite 'clunky' but provides good tactile feedback. It is of course based on an upright action, so if you are used to a Grand Piano it may not meet your expectations. My view is that pianists will like or warm to it, but DP enthusiasts might not.
Posted by: maurus

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 04:12 PM

I tried the NU1 action briefly and was not overwhelmed in comparison with the best DP actions. I guess only N1 and up (did not try them yet) would mean a subtantial step up in the quality of the action.
Posted by: sonycrr

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 05:54 PM

can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!
Posted by: Vid

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 06:37 PM

What's a "Kaway"?
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/21/13 08:22 PM

Originally Posted By: maurus
I guess only N1 and up (did not try them yet) would mean a subtantial step up in the quality of the action.


There are varying opinions on that. Some people in the forum prefer the NU1. I haven't been able to try the NU1 yet so I can't weigh in unfortunately.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:19 AM

Originally Posted By: sonycrr
can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!


I don't know about anything about NU1 but yesterday evening I A/B compared CA95 internal sound and Pianoteq (with headphones) and after some getting used to, I found the Pinoteq more natural/beleivable/enjoyable. Just to give you na idea, in case you are familiar with Pianoteq. I will try this more times (and also witth loudspeakers) though because I found that my preferences vary with time and state of mind.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:21 AM

Thank you for your kind advices.

I liked so much its woodden keys but the CA95 action continues to seem to me a bit "fake", not real piano, and that is my major issue...
Of course I have to try the NU1 ... but for sure if I do not see evident advantages compared to my CA95 keyboard I will not spend so much money for the change (considering also that NU1 is heavier and more similar to my Yamaha Silent upright I have in Italy).

But considering that I am used to play for year on my Silent upright and I find it perfect for my needs (I also made the keys heavier adding some weight, just for practising and enforcing my fingers... now it is a perfect instrument for trining) ... I thought the NU1 could replicate this personal success smile
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Vid
What's a "Kaway"?

ehm, sorry, Kawai... I am just a "Yamaha fan" wink
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:39 AM

titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.
Posted by: sonycrr

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 11:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Hookxs
Originally Posted By: sonycrr
can some one make a comment on the piano sounds of each and which one most accurately replicates a acoustic piano as far as the sound is concerned?

thanks!


I don't know about anything about NU1 but yesterday evening I A/B compared CA95 internal sound and Pianoteq (with headphones) and after some getting used to, I found the Pinoteq more natural/beleivable/enjoyable. Just to give you na idea, in case you are familiar with Pianoteq. I will try this more times (and also witth loudspeakers) though because I found that my preferences vary with time and state of mind.




thanks!

i never heard of Pinoteq..ill look into it.
Posted by: sonycrr

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


do you like the sound from the nu1 or the n3 better?
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: sonycrr
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
titowsky, I'm afraid you're going to have to play the pianos in question yourself.

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


do you like the sound from the nu1 or the n3 better?


I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.

Oh!? Even though they are supposedly sampled fom different pianos? Maybe your point is different.

My only complaint about the NU1 sound is the bass could be richer, less grumbling. Sorry about using English adjectives here, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Lowest D I can hear the strings through the tone. Maybe it's not the strings but it's not pleasant. I added a sub and that helped, but usually I don't bother.
Posted by: Taylorius

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 01:39 PM

Hi titowsky

I went through a similar process a few months ago. I was deciding between the NU1, N1, and CA95, and I spent a while comparing them.

My verdict: I didn't like the CA95's keyboard action. I found the keys too slow to rebound, which caused an issue for fast note repetition. I loved its sounds though (especially the Deep Purple style organ ).

I tried the N1 and NU1 side by side, but I couldn't detect that much difference between both piano's actions - which I found surprising, but there you are.

I went for the Yamaha NU1 in the end. The keyboard action is the genuine article, It's a much nicer form factor than the N1, quite a lot cheaper, and it has a nice bright sound. My only complaint sound-wise, echoes what someone else has said in this thread. When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, so I imagine the shape of the piano is blocking the sound in the player's direction somehow.

Best of luck

Matt
Posted by: Vid

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

Having said that, I own the N3 and recently played the NU1. I'm giving very serious thought of buying the NU1 and placing that next to my N3. I found the NU1 to be slightly more difficult to play (than the N3) which I found attractive.


I felt the same way the last time I was trying the NU1 in comparison to the N1 and N2. I prefer the real actions of the Yamaha hybrids over the CA93 but its a bit difficult to compare when the instruments are not next to each other (in time and space). I don't see how you could beat a real action over a simulated one but that said the Kawai CA does have the best action I've experienced for a straight up DP.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 01:45 PM

Emeli Sande, sang at the opening ceremony of the Olympics, just won a Grammy, endorses the NU1. (I know as a Yamaha artist this is just advertising, but ...)
Posted by: peterws

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 02:40 PM

"When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, . . "

I think it`s important to remember NO piano sounds the same when you play it as when you listen to it being played even a few yards away. Have you heard a pipe organ played up close, and then gone to the back of the church? It`s totally different,
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I practice 99 percent of the time with headphones ... and with headphones they are identical.

Oh!? Even though they are supposedly sampled fom different pianos? Maybe your point is different.

My only complaint about the NU1 sound is the bass could be richer, less grumbling. Sorry about using English adjectives here, but I'm not sure how else to describe it. Lowest D I can hear the strings through the tone. Maybe it's not the strings but it's not pleasant. I added a sub and that helped, but usually I don't bother.


I didn't do an A\B test.

I just now looked at Yamaha's site and both pianos use the sample set based on different models though both are what I would consider top end nine foot concert grands.

I think anyone would be happy with the sound through headphones ... and most folks would find the speaker systems on both just fine as well.

I should add that I was very happy with the sound of my old GranTouch hybrid that I bought 14 years ago (and traded in three years ago towards my N3).
Posted by: Taylorius

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/22/13 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: peterws
I think it`s important to remember NO piano sounds the same when you play it as when you listen to it being played even a few yards away. Have you heard a pipe organ played up close, and then gone to the back of the church? It`s totally different,


You're quite right of course. It's not really a problem anyway, more of an observation really.

Now what I DO wish is that they'd put some more / better non-piano sounds on the NU1. I know it's billed as a serious players piano replacement, and all that - but it wouldn't have killed Yamaha to have stuck a couple of cool organs on there (like the blues organ on the CA95). :-)

Matt
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/24/13 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Taylorius
Hi titowsky

I went through a similar process a few months ago. I was deciding between the NU1, N1, and CA95, and I spent a while comparing them.

My verdict: I didn't like the CA95's keyboard action. I found the keys too slow to rebound, which caused an issue for fast note repetition. I loved its sounds though (especially the Deep Purple style organ ).

I tried the N1 and NU1 side by side, but I couldn't detect that much difference between both piano's actions - which I found surprising, but there you are.

I went for the Yamaha NU1 in the end. The keyboard action is the genuine article, It's a much nicer form factor than the N1, quite a lot cheaper, and it has a nice bright sound. My only complaint sound-wise, echoes what someone else has said in this thread. When sitting at the piano, the bass tones are not as prominent as one might wish. This isn't the case when standing a few paces away though, so I imagine the shape of the piano is blocking the sound in the player's direction somehow.

Best of luck

Matt



Hi Matt!

I have to say that I totally agree with you!
Yesterday I had the opportunity to try the NU1 for half an hour and... well, better keyboard feeling, absolutely better keys rebound and... yes, no more the impression of playing just an electronic keyboard... not a great keyboard but definitely better than CA95.

But the sound... here I have been really negatively impressed: I want to assume the instrument I played had problems, but I do not think so... just for example: the beginning of Beethoven op.53 with repeated chords was absolutely orrible, impossible to get a soft homogeneous sound, with very strange effects coming out of the repetitions (and believe me: I immediately made it on a acoustic piano just beside and even the seller was impressed!).

I agree about quite all the remarks I read on this forum about sound "issues/limitation" of NU1 (including weak bass and above all strage peaks during repetitions or in other contexts which really do not reflect the pianist execution!)
I can just add that I feel my CA95 much more enjoyable, rich, powerful and "manageable". What a pity...
Anyway I will try another one next weekend...

Tito
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/24/13 02:27 PM

Hello
I am really surprised about your opinion about the sound of the NU1
I have a NU1 (and previously owned a CA93 and alos a Roland HP307)
I will not compare them here as I already did that, but in terms of sound, I can say that:
- I am really satisfied about the NU1 sound, which I found superior to the formerly mentioned pianos
- its sound can be compared with a "real" upright as I play on a real piano for my lessons (a real piano is better, that is right, but the difference is not so "big")
In conclusion, I really enjoy my NU1, for both action and sound

I am wondering if the model you tested had perhaps a problem ??

Cheers
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/24/13 03:17 PM

I will try again next Saturday in another shop... my test with Beethoven Sonata and some other Scarlatti was pretty evident. Maybe something was wrong with the model I tried.

But I remember also an old, very accurate review in this forum, made by an experienced pianist who tried some complicate pieces and came out with major remarks on sound issues with NU1.

I would be the happiest to confirm your statements and I would immediately change my Kawai for the Yamaha.

Let's see... smile
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/24/13 03:28 PM

Ok, but we do you call exactly "strange effects from fast repetitions" ?
perhaps, indeed, I am not experienced enough to reach the limitation you are talking about
If you make some clear explanations, I can make a try on my piano and even share a recording in order to "clarify" that point

Cheers
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/24/13 03:50 PM

Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!
Posted by: Clayman

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 12:55 AM

Are these two pianos really in the same class? The NU1 is a fair bit more expensive, although, admittedly, not as much as other pianos I have seen here compared to the CA-95.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: titowsky
Indeed the easiest way would be to try the first two bars of Beethoven op.53, playing the repeated chords at performance speed in pp with a very soft crescendo just in the last 2 chromes... it was nearly impossible to play them without getting both missing sounds or other chords suddently sounding louder (with even strong peaks of just some notes of the chords): but my wrist movement (with "rigid" fingers in the positions) is absolutely constant both in speed and power.

Different limitations I noticed in Rachmaninov, where I was not able to get powerful, convincing bass or produce the loud mass of round sound I am used to get in the fff.

I hope my words can transmit the idea...

Thank you for the interesting discussion!


I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?


I have a Silent Yamaha at home in Italy for more than 10 years (I do not think its silent system is the latest), and I have always been totally satisfied: I prepared many concerts on this instrument and even modified it with some weights inside the keyboard in order to enforce the muscles in the fingers... perfect instrument for my purposes.
I did not notice such problems, I was not used to play it with headphones (just true sound, or totally silent, most time, while watching TV during exercises!)... but I would remember these kind of issues... mmm...
Posted by: Taylorius

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 04:14 PM

Hi Titowski

I have found that the lack of bass is only an issue for the player. For anyone listening a short distance away, the sound is great.

On the NU1 the bass speakers are mounted on the front, below the keyboard assembly, whereas the treble speakers are at the top, right in front of the player. So unsurprisingly the treble is all you can hear from the player's perspective - the sound from the bass speakers being blocked by the keyboard itself.

If I sit on the floor and play (not the optimal position, ergonomically) :-) then the sound is great.

To be honest, I'm very happy with my NU1, but I think this is a real design flaw. I may look into buying some auxiliary bass speakers, but its annoying to have to do that, as there's plenty of bass already being generated, it's just all funneled away from the player's ears!

If anyone can recommend some good bass speakers (woofers? sub woofers? I'm not sure) I'd be grateful.


Matt
Posted by: adak

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 04:29 PM

Does this make sense? Bass sound is quite low and it doesn't matter where the sub is positioned cause the direction of origin can come from anywhere.

Originally Posted By: Taylorius
Hi Titowski

I have found that the lack of bass is only an issue for the player. For anyone listening a short distance away, the sound is great.

On the NU1 the bass speakers are mounted on the front, below the keyboard assembly, whereas the treble speakers are at the top, right in front of the player. So unsurprisingly the treble is all you can hear from the player's perspective - the sound from the bass speakers being blocked by the keyboard itself.

If I sit on the floor and play (not the optimal position, ergonomically) :-) then the sound is great.

To be honest, I'm very happy with my NU1, but I think this is a real design flaw. I may look into buying some auxiliary bass speakers, but its annoying to have to do that, as there's plenty of bass already being generated, it's just all funneled away from the player's ears!

If anyone can recommend some good bass speakers (woofers? sub woofers? I'm not sure) I'd be grateful.


Matt


Posted by: Taylorius

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 04:32 PM

Hi spanishbuddha

I'm interested in your solution to the NU1's inadequate bass (you mentioned that you added a subwoofer). I'm inexperienced in such things - could I ask you which subwoofer you used, and where you placed it? Were you happy with the improvement in the bass?

Matt
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/25/13 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Taylorius
Hi spanishbuddha

I'm interested in your solution to the NU1's inadequate bass (you mentioned that you added a subwoofer). I'm inexperienced in such things - could I ask you which subwoofer you used, and where you placed it? Were you happy with the improvement in the bass?

Matt

Hi Matt. I have a Rokit speaker system at home, and tried just the 10s sub with my NU1. I placed it to my side, although as someone else says for the low frequency rumbles, position should not matter. Yes it helps and makes a difference. It certainly exposed my beginners heavy LH. I'm not sure I got a good balance but did not try the main Rokit speakers too. The sub is not cheap so get one on trial, or buy from a store with a return option would be my suggestion if you're not happy with the bass. I no longer have the sub connected as I'm quite content with the sound for purpose of practice. I'm also quite content with the key action which is not as smooth and easy as some of the best DP actions. That's partly what I like about it, it's just like my teachers acoustic.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 01:14 AM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
I'm also quite content with the key action which is not as smooth and easy as some of the best DP actions. That's partly what I like about it, it's just like my teachers acoustic.


That is what I liked about my old cheap, cheap Suzuki SS-90...it felt like playing a spottily regulated upright and as such was a good practivce piano.

My Roland HP-307 makes things too easy and makes things sound too good. Which, for practice, can be a bad thing.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 05:59 AM

Since the NU1 has the hammer action of an upright, it plays pretty much like...an upright ;-) With all it's advantaged and shortcomings. The CA95 GF is modeled after a grand piano action. Apart from the perhaps "too easy" touch of the CA, I think it's only logical that they are so different. If you prefer upright than the NU1 is unbeatable , but if you're looking for a grand action, people may decide otherwise. In short - I think it's hard to compare the two 1:1 since it's not the same action they intend to be and therefore personal preference may play a big role. I found the NU1 to have pretty much the same feeling as the nice acoustic upright in my parents house. But for me I'd prefer something more smooth; I'm probably too lazy to do the harder work on the upright acoustic mechanism. So which one is 'better' ; I think that answer is too subjective.

I agree that learning to play on a piano that is too easy might give you a hard time later on with other instruments. But will it make you a better / worse pianist in the long run ; I think there's no scientific proof of that (yet).
Posted by: pv88

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
The CA95 GF is modeled after a grand piano action. Apart from the perhaps "too easy" touch of the CA ...


@JFP,

Since I have a CA95, and, the feel of an action is always a subjective thing from player to player I do not think that the GF in the CA95 is "too easy." It is quite weighted in fact, as I find it heavier in response than my V-Piano, or, other Casio's and a Kurzweil that I have tried. The V-Piano's action is far lighter and easier to play on than the GF, no question.

I do know that the CA95 is weighted to feel exactly like the acoustic grand (RX model) that Kawai fashioned the action after.
Posted by: HwyStar

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 03:56 PM

Has anyone measured the actions; in grams, for either/both pianos yet?

If you have an NU1 or CA95 here is a link on how to measure your pianos touchweight (2/3 the way down on the page): http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm

In my option this will not represent the user feel of the action but it is better than saying smooth, fast, heavy, etc. Numbers usually don't lie.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 04:42 PM

Originally Posted By: pv88
Since I have a CA95, and, the feel of an action is always a subjective thing from player to player I do not think that the GF in the CA95 is "too easy."


I know, it's just that others classified the Kawai action(s) as such, especially in comparison to the upright action of the NU1 and I just wanted to stress that the difference is understandable , because the GF is modeled after a grand action and not an upright. A good grand action is usually easier on the fingers than most uprights in my experience. The exceptions proves the rule , of course...
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 02/26/13 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: HwyStar
Has anyone measured the actions; in grams, for either/both pianos yet?

If you have an NU1 or CA95 here is a link on how to measure your pianos touchweight (2/3 the way down on the page): http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm

In my option this will not represent the user feel of the action but it is better than saying smooth, fast, heavy, etc. Numbers usually don't lie.



Numbers may not lie, but the best way to judge any piano is simply to play it.

If I change the touch sensitivity on my N3 from the default value of 2 to 3, it really feels like I'm playing another action, one that is more difficult to play. If I had measured the action what would the numbers have really meant?

Numbers are for those who read spec sheets; when it comes to pianos there ain't no shortcuts, you gotta play 'em.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 11:33 AM

Ok, update from my side: I have been playing for 2 hours an NU1 in Konstanz just beside an N3 and a CA95.
I do nor report the same defenct I noted in the NU1 in Italy: although the fast repeated notes are not perfect, the piano is enjoyable and the keyboard for me is much much more convincing than the CA95 one (but I still prefer its sound).
The repeated notes were much better on the N3 (even very very fast, the sound was absolutely as expected), the keyboard heavier, and I liked that, but not so natural... and of course, for that price I would buy an acoustic, no doubts.

So at the end... yes, I gave back my CA95 to get a new NU1, but... I will try it at the shop before getting it at home: at least two keys in the model I played produced a louder sound than the others (even the shop seller recognized that). Now I really hope that this NU1 has not too many defects, or is not too delicate.

Anzwaz I am happy and convinced of my choice! smile
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 11:45 AM

Congrats, I think the NU1 is a great alternative for piano practice. In the UK they offer free extended warranty, so five years in all, not sure about Germany or Italy. Of course you hope never to have to need to use it, but it provides some further assurance.
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 12:06 PM

Thank you! ...and thank you for the information: I checked and the extended warranty is available also here, but I have to register the piano within the end of March (hope the shop will take not too long to get a new model). This is an electronic instruments, and you may never know... (my Yamaha Silent in Italy is working perfectly even after more than 15 years).

I can add that I played without volume for half an hour, closing the eyes, and yes... the feeling was there; never had the same impression with the CA95 (I know that I will miss its gorgeous sound, but this is not what I really need in such an instrument).
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 01:50 PM

A couple a curious things:

- Ehm, what is the noise gate?
- Reading the manual in the troubleshooting section is mentioned the event of "one note sounding louder than expected during fast repetition or trills" as normal feature due to the mechanics of the keys, but just if it happens very rarely... uhm, very strage and subjectiv justification frown
Posted by: toddy

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 02:27 PM

Originally Posted By: titowsky
A couple a curious things:

- Ehm, what is the noise gate?


It's a device that cuts the output of the signal (the piano sound in this case) when it is below a certain (usually very low) level. This can be used to cut out humming or hissing or to make certain dynamic effects.

Originally Posted By: titowsky

- Reading the manual in the troubleshooting section is mentioned the event of "one note sounding louder than expected during fast repetition or trills" as normal feature due to the mechanics of the keys, but just if it happens very rarely... uhm, very strage and subjectiv justification frown


Maybe so, but it sounds kind of reasonable. Isn't this an expected effect with normal AP mechanics when dealing with delicate techniques such as ornaments at pp?
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 03:06 PM

Thank you very much the explanation: so is the noise gate an important feature in the recordings... or is it beeter to accept the sound as it is?

Ehm, if you play properly the AP mechanics will never react with loud sounds... just if you try to go faster/softer you may miss some repetitions or hear only the low or the high note of the trill, but not peaks in volume unless you cause them with the fingers.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 03:37 PM

The noise gate is only relevant if you are feeding an external sound source, such as for example piano generated by a software VST, into the NU1 line-in to use its built in speakers. This gate existed on other Yamaha AG's and caused a problem by cutting off some pppp sounds. Hardly desirable. On the NU1 it can be disabled. It does not affect recording from internally generated piano sounds.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 03:42 PM

The only time I heard strange peaks in volume was when I tried playing the Harpsichord sound. I don't use this much, hardly ever, but I think there may indeed be something odd there with the implementation.
Posted by: toddy

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 04:03 PM

Originally Posted By: titowsky

Ehm, if you play properly the AP mechanics will never react with loud sounds... just if you try to go faster/softer you may miss some repetitions or hear only the low or the high note of the trill, but not peaks in volume unless you cause them with the fingers.


Yes, quite. Of course, Kawai are writing for all their customers with all kinds of techniques: highly controlled and not so highly controlled (like mine, for example smile )
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/02/13 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
Originally Posted By: titowsky

Ehm, if you play properly the AP mechanics will never react with loud sounds... just if you try to go faster/softer you may miss some repetitions or hear only the low or the high note of the trill, but not peaks in volume unless you cause them with the fingers.


Yes, quite. Of course, Kawai are writing for all their customers with all kinds of techniques: highly controlled and not so highly controlled (like mine, for example smile )


Sorry, maybe I am not so technically informed, or I wrongly understood... I just never realized such a problem during my modest pianistic career with a lot of different traditional pianos.
Posted by: theJourney

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/03/13 02:21 AM

Originally Posted By: titowsky
Originally Posted By: theJourney

I would be interesting to hear your reactions to playing a true hybrid piano such as Yamaha's Silent U series with their latest silent system. Do you perceive the same limitations when playing such an instrument with headphones?

I have a Silent Yamaha at home in Italy for more than 10 years (I do not think its silent system is the latest), and I have always been totally satisfied: I prepared many concerts on this instrument and even modified it with some weights inside the keyboard in order to enforce the muscles in the fingers... perfect instrument for my purposes.
I did not notice such problems, I was not used to play it with headphones (just true sound, or totally silent, most time, while watching TV during exercises!)... but I would remember these kind of issues... mmm...


I wonder what kind of upright action is going into the NU1 (and where it is manufactured)?

The Yamaha Silents I most tend to come across are Japanese U1s and U3s but there are also, for example, Indonesian B1s which certainly play less satisfyingly...
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/03/13 04:08 AM

Exactly, don't you think it is a pity that the mechanics cannot be seen by the user? It should be a reason to not let the cover be opened, maybe to preserve some delicate parts, I do not know...
Posted by: titowsky

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/08/13 02:08 PM

Today I just tried my new Yamaha NU1, as soon as it has arrived at the shop.
I am happy to say that I did not find any problem: neither the repetition issues nor the ugly different response of a few keys I experienced on another available model.
Ok... the beginning of Beethoven op.53 is always a challenge for the NU1, something is not completely convincing, and it sounds perfectly just on the N3 I tried (and on all the acoustic nearby).

I have also to say that I am missing from the eletronics some "power" in the fff, which induced me to force a bit too much, and get my fingers tired in the search for "big sound mass"

But at the end, coming back to any other digital beside, it is pretty evident that, at least for me, there is not comparison.

So I am happy and I cannot wait to receive it at home on Tuesday.

ps: unfortunately then I tried a Bechstein Millenium upright, uhm... still schocked... smile
Posted by: theJourney

Re: Comparison between Kaway CA95 and Yamaha NU1 - 03/09/13 12:53 AM

Congratulations with your new instrument!