headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598?

Posted by: pianomanvan

headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/06/13 11:20 PM

just picked up my P155 thanks to the suggestions from this forum and i'm very happy with it! now i'm looking for a good headphone in the sub $200 range. i've been reading positive things here about the HD598 which runs for about $225 on amazon.

i'm very new to digital pianos and have never had a high quality headphones so i'm looking for recommendations. i also don't have a way to test it so i'll be buying sight unseen.

i'll be playing the piano almost always with the headphones so i want something decent and durable. on the rare occasion that i might use them for listening to music it'll be classical stuff not hip hop or base heavy music.

thanks!
Posted by: Dr Popper

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 12:10 AM

Sennheiser HD's are highly regarded around here
Posted by: mabraman

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 04:57 AM

The flatter response they have, the better for you.
There are some threads opened with the same subject.
If you can't test different models in the shops, you need to rely on objective meassurements. Try this and let me know if it helped: http://en.goldenears.net/GR_Headphones.

For HD 598:


Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 05:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Sennheiser HD's are highly regarded around here


Dr Popper is right. i have the Sennheiser HD380 and I am extremely pleased with sound, comfort and quality. I paid $199, you can find many decent sets in that price range. However, headphones are personal thing. Sometimes I like to switch it up even with my Bose buds. Anyway, check out the link to see the HD380 if interested

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/sennheiser-hd-380-pro-headphones

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Posted by: mabraman

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 05:22 AM


With this model you'd have a more boomy bass and less trebble, nothing that some EQ can't solve, if you don't like it. But, again, none of those within your budget are completely flat, they all colour the sound, some way.

Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 06:03 AM

I own several sets of headphones including the Sennheiser HD598.

I use them every day and especially like the fact that the cable can be easily replaced if it is ever damaged. I've lost count of the headphones I've owned that could not be easily repaired.

You'll be very happy with the sound of the HD598 though to be honest I wish the color scheme were different.
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 06:22 AM

Unfortunately I don't understand those graphs and some of the jargon used to describe sound like "coloration" since I'm new to this but I know I'd prefer less boomy and muffled sound. So the 598 would suite me better over the 380 according to the chart.

I've only been looking at sennheiser mainly since some people here with much more expensive pianos than mine use them. Are there any other brands worthy of consideration in my ~$200 range that aren't being mentioned?

Thanks smile
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 06:31 AM

Hey Dave
You're one of those people I was talking about! I'm thinking if its good enough for the N3 it's good enough for me smile
Having never seen one in person I can't tell how durable they are and how long it might last. I have to replace my iPhone earbuds 2-3 times a year curtesy of AppleCare so I hope these hold up better. I'm also very sensitive to hissing or extra noises and hope to avoid all that with these.
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 06:48 AM

Originally Posted By: pianomanvan
Hey Dave
You're one of those people I was talking about! I'm thinking if its good enough for the N3 it's good enough for me smile
Having never seen one in person I can't tell how durable they are and how long it might last. I have to replace my iPhone earbuds 2-3 times a year curtesy of AppleCare so I hope these hold up better. I'm also very sensitive to hissing or extra noises and hope to avoid all that with these.


The HD 598 are open headphones so you're not blocking out the rest of the world and some sound will leak out as well. For me they seem perfectly natural and I forget I'm wearing headphones.

They seem very well made and for me the fact that the cable can be easily replaced is a plus.

As always, know what the return policy is in case you're not happy with them or if the output of the piano is not sufficient.

Headphones are passive (at least the ones that don't use a power source), any hissing you hear will come from the source you're connected to.
Posted by: mabraman

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 07:38 AM

Originally Posted By: pianomanvan
Unfortunately I don't understand those graphs and some of the jargon used to describe sound like "coloration" since I'm new to this but I know I'd prefer less boomy and muffled sound. So the 598 would suite me better over the 380 according to the chart.

I've only been looking at sennheiser mainly since some people here with much more expensive pianos than mine use them. Are there any other brands worthy of consideration in my ~$200 range that aren't being mentioned?

Thanks smile


Those graphs are not that difficult, specially if you read what they mean, which is just in the same page. Basically, left part of the graph is for the bass range, center for the middles and right one, for the trebble. Bolded or shaded areas are out of common perception so they are meaningless.
Green line, as said, is the tester's target, his ideal, and red and blue lines are the actual headphone performance through a test.
Besides, I posted there another table where you could see how boomy, muddy or whatever they are, is it jargon too?
Believe me, you'll save lots of money by spending a little time trying to understand those graphics and reading about details, specially for detachable/replaceable wires, as it has already been said.
The fact that someone with a more expensive piano is happy with his set of cans doesn't imply it will suit yours. Why should it be that way?
Now, a practical example: I own a DP that sounded harsh with a Sennheisser HD 205 (entry level) 'cause these cans rise mids and highs too much. Now I use HD 518 (100$ or less) and the same piano sounds waaaaaaaay more mellow...though it has lost some of its desirable brilliance, or realism, which apparently depends on how those highs sound.
There are more sites whith available graphics, and they all work the same way: there is a narrow space that you could call flat sound, but even in that case it's not completely flat and the response is not the same for every frequency, so some cans can be great for bass but too muddy for mids, or cause hissing when you play forte and the timbre changes.

Ite, misa est.
Posted by: Tom Fine

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 04:17 PM

I've been reading about headphones lately without actually buying them. (And realizing that before I invest in really good headphones I should probably re-load all of my CDs at a higher bitrate AAC.) I can throw out a couple of popular recommendations (via head-fi.org mainly) but first I have a question.

The headphones below are low-impedance headphones (25 or 30 ohms). The HD598s mentioned earlier are high-impedance (300 ohm). Low impedance headphones are designed for consumer products like phones and will easily be loud enough (or even too loud) from any source, but high-impedance headphones are designed for professional equipment and may not get loud enough from a low-power source. So is a DP headphone jack more like a studio headphone jack or a consumer product? Or does it depend on the piano?

So how standard are headphone jacks on DPs, and what sort of experience have people had with high and low impedance headphones on them?

Anyway, based on what I've read, these would be two really good choices in your price range, offering two different styles of headphone. But these are low-impedance headphones, so maybe wait to see what people say about that.

Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones are a widely recommended headphone in your price range. They're closed circum-aural (they surround the ear rather than sitting on top of it). They've been popular for a long time.

V-Moda Crossfade M-80 is also very popular. They're describes as semi-closed or semi-open. And they're supra-aural (they sit on the ear). So they're a little smaller overall. I noticed they were on sale right now at GameStop for $170.

And there's plenty of others. There's an interesting thread over at head-fi.org where one guy has reviewed over a hundred different headphones. It's just one opinion, but someone with a lot of experience, and you can then look at discussions of individual headphones to see what people are saying.

tom

Posted by: Radian

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 05:09 PM

FWIW, I love my Sony MDR-V6 headphones. They're very durable, comfortable and with a nice long 10ft (coiled) cord. Works great plugged into my PX150.

These are sealed headphones, so you might upset your significant other if they're trying to get your attention smile

The only `negative` for me was that the pads wore pretty fast (6 months). But that's easily fixed with a replacement pair. I'm using the Pearstone Deluxe Earpads now, and they're VERY comfy velour.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GC7YJ2/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Posted by: Amaruk

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 06:57 PM

I got the HD598 a few weeks ago. I am very happy with them. They are extremely comfortable! I might get a second pair one day as my wife loves them too.
Posted by: personne

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 07:24 PM

I use AKG K271 MKII.
So far I am happy with them.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 07:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Tom Fine
The HD598s mentioned earlier are high-impedance (300 ohm). Low impedance headphones are designed for consumer products like phones and will easily be loud enough (or even too loud) from any source, but high-impedance headphones are designed for professional equipment and may not get loud enough from a low-power source. So is a DP headphone jack more like a studio headphone jack or a consumer product? Or does it depend on the piano?


Actually the HD598's have an impedance of 50 ohms. They are relatively easy to drive and do well with DP headphone jacks (I have the 595's, which are the same except for the colors). These sennheisers are unbelievably comfortable, lightweight, and realistic. Incredible soundstage. Weaknesses? They are a bit light on the bass.

Originally Posted By: Tom Fine
Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones are a widely recommended headphone in your price range. They're closed circum-aural (they surround the ear rather than sitting on top of it). They've been popular for a long time.


I also own these cans. In my opinion they are markedly inferior to the sennheisers (much cheaper, though). The isolation is very good and the sound is tolerable. At present I use them in my office to block out my noisy coworkers.

Based on my experience, open headphones sound ever so much better. Though isolation is nice to have. The air conditioner, the sound of the thumping keys, kids in the next room, the whirr of your computer if you have one. All these things can get real annoying.

So pick your poison. I personally go with the open cans.
Posted by: ahhsmurf

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/07/13 08:28 PM

so some cans can be great for bass but too muddy for mids, or cause hissing when you play forte and the timbre changes.
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 12:31 AM

the world of headphones is ridiculously complicated and i'm a pretty educated guy! the more i'm digging into the reviews the harder the decision gets smile

so far i've narrowed down my requirements to price max $200, detachable cable, no external amp requirement, positive durability reviews and open though not sure why. maybe someone can tell me why open is so much better than closed. i live in a noisy area with constant sirens and banging from neighbours so initially i wanted closed ones until everyone said open gets better sound.

the senn 5xx series (still my first choice right now) seem to have a widely reported issue with cracking since they're made of plastic see:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534963/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack/30

the sony ones mentioned above look interesting cause they're so cheap around $70 but they're closed. still an option though at that price. same with the audio technica one at around $115
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 12:46 AM

My advice is not to stress the detachable cable thing. That requirement drops out a lot of really good headphones. And really, I don't see why it's such a big deal. The way to make stuff last (in my opinion) is to take care of it, not to buy stuff made only of adamantium.

I'm actually not surprised to see those cracked senns. It's a very lightweight pair of headphones. Again, no need to be stepping on them or banging them around. Comparing it to the ATH's that were mentioned here there are a few comfort factors:

1. The senns seem to weigh much, much less. Like a couple of feathers on your head.

2. The senns don't squeeze you. The ATH's seem comfy at first, but they sqush my head after a while.

3. The senns have some kind of velvet in contact with your skin, which doesn't get sweaty like the ATH faux leather.

4. The senns seem to actually let air in. Maybe it's just my imagination, but it never seems to get hot under here.

Having said that, household noises drive me absolutely crazy when I'm using the sennheisers. I get all OCD about quieting down my room and it makes my wife grumpy. If there's a lot of noise in the room you might be tempted to turn them up, which will sound great until you lose your hearing.

As for open vs. closed, I don't know the technical reason for it, but open headphones feel to me like the music is in the room--actually they sound like you are in the room where the music was recorded. You can close your eyes and practically fool yourself into thinking you are there. Closed headphones sound good too, but the sound is definitely coming from the cans and that impression doesn't go away. As much as I enjoy them, I never feel like I'm there.

Ok so now that I've said a whole bunch about how magical open headphones are, let me say that it's not the be-all-and-end-all either. Any headphones that cost $150+ and are highly recommended are going to sound great, and that's what matters. The effect of open headphones is something I personally value, but I can easily imagine people thinking it's not that special. Also, the feeling of weak bass is pretty noticeable, particularly at low volumes. I think the bass leaks out the sides or something. Closed headphones almost never have that issue. People who love to listen to pop music tend to want serious thump and often don't love open headphones the way I do for that reason.

Lastly, the sennheisers are way overpriced. I bought mine for like half the price they sell for now not that long ago. I'm not sure if exchange rates are to blame or what, but they are gouging you. If you want to save some bucks, Sony and other brands make fine headphones as well even if they don't have the same cachet.
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 03:01 AM

Those are very good points you made. Thank you! The senns are coming down on my list now. Living in this noisy apartment for 2 years has made me more and more sensitive to ambient noise of which there's a constant stream. Hospital and fire department across the street and train tracks 2 block over not for mention the neighbours on every side. I think I should forgo the benefits of open in favour of peace and quiet. If I keep the cost down like with the sony ones or similar I can get the senns as well down the road. Maybe one pair can't do everything.
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Tom Fine
So is a DP headphone jack more like a studio headphone jack or a consumer product? Or does it depend on the piano?

So how standard are headphone jacks on DPs, and what sort of experience have people had with high and low impedance headphones on them?



Tom,
Looks like people were trying to figure this out in another thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...edance.%20.html

The 598 are at 50 so they work withhout an amp but the HD600 and 650 at 300 will need to be amped.

Also thanks for mentioning the audio technical. I'm looking into them now.
Posted by: mabraman

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 04:03 AM

Btw, P-155 owner's manual has an apendix where some accesories are shown, cheap discontinued 32ohms cans among them if I'm not mistaken.
I played this model with those "bad" senns (hd 205) and didn't like it, neither other DP models and brands, so my advice would be: avoid headphones that rise middle and high frequencies too much.This makes every piano sound unbearable, ringy as heck.
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 04:45 AM

My advice is not to stress the detachable cable thing. That requirement drops out a lot of really good headphones. And really, I don't see why it's such a big deal. The way to make stuff last (in my opinion) is to take care of it, not to buy stuff made only of adamantium.

I've had to recycle a few headphones simply because I either got up and walked away while they were still attached or I accidentally stepped on the plug. If I could have easily replaced the cable I'd still have them.

In one instance a Sony headphone that I had had for 20+ years would have cost more than the headphones originally cost to have the cable replaced by Sony. I've tried to solder those wires myself with no luck.

It's been my experience that if anything fails it will be the cable or plug. I bought three sets of headphones in the last year (HD 598, HD 280, and AKG 240MKII, ) ... all of them can have their cables easily replaced. Also, the cushions can be easily replaced as well. I'll never go back.
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 05:22 AM

My experience is quite the opposite. The only cable failure I've ever had was a loose connection inside one of the cans. A detachable cable would not have alleviated that.

Further, the detachment point on the left can is just an extra, unneeded point of failure. Phones that lack this connector cannot fail at that point. So I won't ever buy phones with a detachable cable.

The rare, but somewhat more likely failure point is in the end connector. But that's an easy $3 fix with a replacement phone plug, far cheaper than a replacement detachable cable.
Posted by: mabraman

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 05:39 AM

My experience is that children love to chew plastic, so I'd buy detachable and gross cables. My Denons were chewed to death by my daught some years ago. Now she's grown up (perhaps there's someone else inside her, attending to her current size, shape and humor) but, who knows why, she still takes some plastic snack here and there. smile
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 07:30 AM

The rare, but somewhat more likely failure point is in the end connector. But that's an easy $3 fix with a replacement phone plug, far cheaper than a replacement detachable cable.

Mac, I've always soldered my own cables. I've soldered my own speaker cables, mic cables, instrument cables, but I could not successfully solder a headphone cable.

Have you actually done that? It's not as easy as you might think it is.
Posted by: Radian

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 09:53 AM

On the topic of soldering a new end connector; it's pretty tricky indeed! I successfully replaced two connectors using this Radioshack part: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103400
One on my old Denon headphones (wonderful headphones, but cracked due to plastic), and on a pair of Sennheisers.

It's difficult because everything's so tiny. If you don't get it just right (too much solder globbed on, or wires not trimmed to the right length), the connector won't screw together properly.

Another big plus on the Sony V6's: the sliding mechanism where you adjust the headphones, is *metal*. On my Denons this was plastic, and I can't even remember how many times it broke and I superglued it back together. IMO, metal is key. But then again the Sony headphones were designed as monitor/ studio headphones that can take a beating.
Posted by: Tom Fine

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 11:37 AM

Regarding open versus closed, the forums talk about the "soundstage". Open headphones sound like a big stage. The music sounds spacious and spread out. Closed headphones sound like all the instruments are in a closet. A closet with really great acoustics, but still a closet.

Closed will give you access to every last detail of the music and block out the rest of the world. Like a producer in a studio perhaps. Open will give you the feeling of sitting in a bar and listening to music, but also hearing other sounds in the room.

Of course that's all primarily regarding music. And while digital pianos are certainly making music, practicing on the piano is not the same kind of experience. You need to hear your timing and the dynamics. But I'm not so sure that when you're practicing you need to be impressed (or annoyed) with every last detail of the richness (or lack of richness) of the fake piano sound. Also, for my Casio at least, the sounds it generates are designed to be played through speakers into a room. When I listen on headphones (the cheap ones I have now), I feel like I've stuck my head inside a piano. I think closed headphones would only increase that sensation.

After all that, for me the primary factor is pragmatic - I want to hear the phone, my wife, my son, the laundry buzzer. But not everybody does.

tom
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 03:26 PM

Yes, I've done it, both the right way and the wrong way. It's really tricky with two hands holding a connector, a cable, a soldering iron, and some solder.

The right way is to use a clamp or vise to hold the connector.
Use a proper stripping tool to get the leads sized properly.
Use a crimping tool to fasten the cable inside the connector's gripping points.
Then attach the wires and solder them.
And remember to slip the connector sheath onto the cable BEFORE doing any of that! smile
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
... but I could not successfully solder a headphone cable. Have you actually done that? It's not as easy as you might think it is.
Posted by: o0Ampy0o

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 03/08/13 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
I've had to recycle a few headphones simply because I either got up and walked away while they were still attached or I accidentally stepped on the plug. If I could have easily replaced the cable I'd still have them.

In one instance a Sony headphone that I had had for 20+ years would have cost more than the headphones originally cost to have the cable replaced by Sony. I've tried to solder those wires myself with no luck.

It's been my experience that if anything fails it will be the cable or plug. I bought three sets of headphones in the last year (HD 598, HD 280, and AKG 240MKII, ) ... all of them can have their cables easily replaced. Also, the cushions can be easily replaced as well. I'll never go back.


Same here.

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD580's that have lasted 20 years. I have replaced the cable 2 times after similar accidental tugs or falling asleep and binding the cable.

Now on the 3rd cable I have discovered upgrading to the HD650 cable is the way to go. It has a substantially tougher cord and plug ends. I just replaced the ear and headband pads. These headphones will probably last another 20 years.

I also have a new pair of HD600's.
Posted by: Bluesinlondon

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 04/11/13 06:20 AM

After much reading up here and elsewhere I went for a pair of HD598s and I'm very pleased with them.

They sound great and are very comfortable to wear for extended periods since they cover the ears, rather then press down on them.

I've used them on the two DPs I have regular access to (Kawai CL36 and Casio CDP100) and both are much improved using these headphones.

I can't detect any problems with driving them, and they work fine with my ipod too - it's never sounded better actually.

Previously I used (pretty decent) Sennheiser SPs, and while their closed back design probably makes them better for listening to music on say, a busy train (no leakage, better external noise blocking), these open HDs sound much more natural when playing a DP, or listening to music in a quieter setting.
Posted by: Paolo70

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 04/11/13 07:25 AM

Hi BluesInLondon,

Originally Posted By: Bluesinlondon
Previously I used (pretty decent) Sennheiser SPs, and while their closed back design probably makes them better for listening to music on say, a busy train (no leakage, better external noise blocking), these open HDs sound much more natural when playing a DP, or listening to music in a quieter setting.


I use a pair of closed back Sennheisers with my DP, and I can't help thinking that the closed back is making the bass sound somewhat boomy. Did you have the same impression with your previous heaadphones?

Thank you,
Paolo
Posted by: pianomanvan

Re: headphone suggestions please for yamaha P155 sennheiser 598? - 04/11/13 08:26 PM

i ended up getting the HD380 as well. in the end i realized i can't have open ones right now living with so much ambient noise around. i might get an open pair down the road when i move to a quieter neighbourhood. i like the sound coming out of these headphones and they're very comfortable and hopefully durable. i used the $30 discount coupon so got it for $170.

one thing though: the padding of display unit at guitar centre was completely worn out so i'll likely have to replace that part in a year or two which runs around 30 bucks.

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Sennheiser HD's are highly regarded around here


Dr Popper is right. i have the Sennheiser HD380 and I am extremely pleased with sound, comfort and quality. I paid $199, you can find many decent sets in that price range. However, headphones are personal thing. Sometimes I like to switch it up even with my Bose buds. Anyway, check out the link to see the HD380 if interested

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/sennheiser-hd-380-pro-headphones

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