All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!!

Posted by: Cmin

All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 03:17 AM

Please feel free to post all your questions, reviews and comments about the FP-80 & FP-50 here.


Original OP:

Roland Connect has announced today (April 4, 2013) the new series.
Let's see....

FP-80
FP-50
Brochure

FP-80 (compared to FP-7f):
+ It appears they smoothed the look by omitting the knobs on the front panel. Back to volume slider.
+ Nice, Acoustic Projection!
+ 200g weight reduction.
+ Reduced power consumption, at medium volume.
+ Super Natural E-Piano
+ Airplay (connect to iOS)

- They went from 2x1/4 inch (FP7F) to mini stereo inputs. (grrrr...)
- Seems no "Open/Close Lid" effect.

I wish they'd show a pic of the back.
And I wonder about the USB to Computer, MIDI only or also audio??? (No info yet)
________________________________________________________________________________

Edits:

Make a long story short, jump here.

Bugs


A review by Enzo.Sandrolini
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 03:34 AM

Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 03:37 AM

Thanks for the heads-up!

10/10 for the video - it's beautifully done, and I love the transition from home practise to performing on stage.

James
x
Posted by: Marco M

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?


The "S" is not as good as the keyboard build into the HP-505. The "S" instead feels less mature, its keys do not really wobble but to me somehow felt less stabilized along their path of movement, when testing it ones in a shop. The "G" in my tests appeared much worse then the "S", then.

I would rank them like this (lowest quality to highest quality):
Ivory-Feel G
Ivory-Feel S
Ivory-Feel (without any additional letter, like on the HP-505)
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:35 AM

Maybe it is the same as the FP-7F PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement??? Just a shortened name?
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:39 AM

Nice find, something else to drool over. That FP80 is heavy for a slab! Prices?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:48 AM

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Nice find, something else to drool over. That FP80 is heavy for a slab! Prices?

+1 ...drool...
Just announced today - no prices yet.
....and it's 200g lighter than FP-7f!!! (wow, now that makes a difference)
Posted by: CarloPiano

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?


According to Roland brochures, Ivory Feel-S (former known as PHA III Ivory Feel-S) is almost identical to PHA-III except for the fact Ivory Feel-S is built on a single plastic piece instead of two. I guess this has to do with the lack of the wooden imitation side PHA III has. HP-503 (Ivory Feel-S) and HP-505 (PHA III) feel different each other but IMHO it's not due to the action, which is almost identical, but due to amp+speakers. The final feedback the player receives depends on the sum of many factors, not only the action. As we usually see on Yamaha GH, just the same action may feel quite different on different instruments.

Something similar happens between the older HP-302 and 305. The have the same action (PHA II with escapement) except for the ivory like cover of the 305, and they share the same sound engine but they definitely feel different: the 305 feels, in my opinion, better as its amplification + speakers are more powerful, that's why I picked one instead a 302.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:51 AM

Can anyone please highlight what's new compared to the FP7F - apart from a presumably better speaker system ? All the rest seems pretty much the same ?! Are the EP's now also Super Natural ? And real drawbar organs ? Any changes to the main AP SN sounds or other sounds ?

I know you can use a sort of airplay with the optional WLAN adapter, but such marketing gadgets don't really bother me - better know how much the PIANO is improved (better sounds / better Super antural / changes to keybed (less thumping ) ??)

And prizzzzze ? Dolphin lists the FP80 as 1762 Pounds , which is about € 2075

Expensive considering the Fp7F was about € 1799

Oh and the new backing organ with TWO displays ! What a laugh ...is that really the gadget that will outsell all competition ? One large touch screen , that can be split on certain pages will do the same and better...
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Can anyone please highlight what's new compared to the FP7F - apart from a presumably better speaker system ? All the rest seems pretty much the same ?! Are the EP's now also Super Natural ? And real drawbar organs ? Any changes to the main AP SN sounds or other sounds ?


Yes, E-Piano is now Super Natural
F-80 & F-50 Brochure

Originally Posted By: JFP
I know you can use a sort of airplay with the optional WLAN adapter, but such marketing gadgets don't really bother me -


Same here.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 08:44 AM

I'm pretty sure the AP core sound must be the same as one the current models, but in the video it sounds a bit more organic than on my 300NX. I guess Roland tweaked it to some extent so that they can justify this new model. It might even contain the brilliant and the studio SN pianos found in the 700NX...
Posted by: Keegan

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 09:03 AM

Time for us FP-7F owners to sell LOL
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 09:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Keegan
Time for us FP-7F owners to sell LOL


For a bit better speakers and SN EP (if you care about that at all). And added € 300...

Don't think a lot of FP7f owners will be convinced. IMHO this update is very meager
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 10:23 AM

Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

The upgrade to the speakers is welcome, particularly if it allows LH bass to be played without distortion, otherwise...?
Posted by: Charles Cohen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 11:42 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).
. . .


From the blurb, on another thread here:

Quote:
•Roland’s SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine onboard


That suggests the sounds really are "SuperNatural", with the modelling freedom that implies.

. Charles
Posted by: dewster

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

I think this is just awkward wording. I'd be quite surprised if SN didn't really mean SN.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
The upgrade to the speakers is welcome, particularly if it allows LH bass to be played without distortion, otherwise...?

I don't like speakers placed in the keybed area, they tend to add overall length to the instrument. FP-50 is 1343mm long, the FP-80 is 1396mm, a difference of two inches - this is make or break sometimes when trying to transport it on the back seat of a car.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 11:55 AM

"I don't like speakers placed in the keybed area, they tend to add overall length to the instrument. FP-50 is 1343mm long, the FP-80 is 1396mm, a difference of two inches - this is make or break sometimes when trying to transport it on the back seat of a car."

I also think tiny speakers on the side seem a little gimmicky and unnecessary. Maybe Roland will prove me wrong. However, I doubt enough to make me part with my beloved ES7.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Roland says that the EPs are SuperNATURAL-based - not that they use the SN engine. That sounds as if they are samples derived from certain SN settings. And if you note, the blurb says: SuperNATURAL Piano technology powers the onboard grand piano sounds (my emphasis).

I think this is just awkward wording. I'd be quite surprised if SN didn't really mean SN.

If you look at the specs on the brochure, there is no adjustment available for the EPs. The AP engine includes the usual (with one or two minor variations) SN effect controls. I believe that the marketing department chooses their words very carefully...

What is interesting is that, compared with the FP-7F, there are 3 additional sounds in the AP bank, and a bunch of extra ones in the EP category. It would be nice if all the RD-700NX SN AP sounds have made it to the FP series.

Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
What is interesting is that, compared with the FP-7F, there are 3 additional sounds in the AP bank, and a bunch of extra ones in the EP category. It would be nice if all the RD-700NX SN AP sounds have made it to the FP series.


Too true! Roland needs to get the "Studio Grand" out there on more of their products.

I think the FP80 looks pretty good. A nice shape. I have no doubt that the action is the same as PHA-III Ivory Feel-S; they've just simplified their ridiculous nomenclature, clearly.

More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), better EPs and, most crucially of all, better speakers was what was needed and it looks like they just may have delivered on all points. The speakers on the FP-7F are awful so lets hope the FP-80 is much better in that respect.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 12:32 PM

Keyboard triple sensor? I did not see it anywhere
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 12:51 PM


Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
...I also think tiny speakers on the side seem a little gimmicky and unnecessary. Maybe Roland will prove me wrong...


Those are the smaller speakers intended to project more towards the player. All in all there are 4 speakers.
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), .


Yep, specifically the Ab & A a +5 and 6th above middle C. It's on the 700NX with the Concert grand but not the Studio grand-very strange. That was a deal breaker for me with that board, I can't believe they missed that.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 01:09 PM

@Cmin; The side speakers are so close to speakers on top I cant see how much it would make for a big difference or experience. They should have just focused on two powerful speakers like a CP300 (2x30w), or even the new Korg280 (2x22w). I just have a feeling it's still going to have some of the LH distortion of the FP7F. However, it is still clever and innovating design. Looks great, but....
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 01:58 PM

Quote : "More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range)"

Who said they changed anything in the AP presets ? Looks all the same to me ; no Super Natural V2 or something like that with changed and improved algorithms and/or new sample set (!)

Seems their milking the same basic set of SN sounds since SN was introduced. I hope I'm wrong and the AP is indeed improved and got rid of the artificial metallic ring...
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 02:06 PM

Update on price : € 1799 over here (same as FP7F) - so that's not too bad.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Update on price : € 1799 over here (same as FP7F) - so that's not too bad.

Where???
Posted by: torhu

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 03:05 PM

So the FP-80 is an FP-7F with possibly better speakers. Probably with the same action and the same piano sound. Maybe with better EP's (badly needed, too). And the Hammond simulator is gone.

I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu
And the Hammond simulator is gone.

No, I think the tonewheel simulator is still in there.
Posted by: torhu

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:08 PM

Maybe it is, but all I can find is the phrase "essential organ tones".
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu
I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.


Kawai James a.k.a "Roland James".... just a thought ;-)
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: torhu
Maybe it is, but all I can find is the phrase "essential organ tones".

Watch the FP-80 video, and you'll see a caption overlaid that mentions the tonewheel sim. The 80 also includes the rotary effect.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 04:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Originally Posted By: torhu
I wish Roland would hire someone with slightly better communcation skills to write their damn ads, though.


Kawai James a.k.a "Roland James".... just a thought ;-)


Well ..."our" KJ is probably very busy finishing up the new MP manuals at te moment in time for the Messe. Seems the FP' s need some more competition. I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai, Yamaha, Korg coming week. Roland has been underwhelming so far...
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai...


- New 'GX' series of grand pianos
- New 'CS' series of luxury digital pianos
- New 'CA15' entry-level piano-oriented digital piano
- New 'VPC1' virtual piano controller

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: JFP
I'm curious what will materialize from Kawai...


- New 'GX' series of grand pianos
- New 'CS' series of luxury digital pianos
- New 'CA15' entry-level piano-oriented digital piano
- New 'VPC1' virtual piano controller

Cheers,
James
x



You forgot
- New 'MP' series of stage pianos

That's ok, we will wait with bated breath. Now please go back to finishing up those MP manuals for next week ;-)
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:37 PM

...from Kawai, .....Yamaha AND Korg coming week.

And perhaps Roland kept a secret product update for the show itself (Fantom series long overdue).

But it could very well be all wishful thinking...hardware development doesn't seem to provide many surprises any more these days. Just slow - small incremental steps. Only surprising new boy in town is VPC1 in the Kawai family.

And perhaps PX5S will do a lot in the stage portable range - however tried PX150/ 350 and 850 today and I wasn't very impressed coming from Roland, Kurzweil, Kawai and previously the old Korg (with Yamaha keybed). Biggest advantage is weight. AP doesn't impress me despite all the AIR marketing talk. The keys are not bad , but really no match for the better Rolands , Yammies and Kawais. Pitty they don't have the PX5 on display yet. Would love to compare it to the other Casio's. Keys seem to vary in sturdiness depending on the cabinet they are in. Px850 felt much more sturdy and better than the same (?) keybed in the PX150 - which wobbles and clicks too much - perhaps due to the light, thin and cheap plastic case it is in.

@James: CS series is very nice by the way. Unfortunately just a 'little' bit above my budget. Especially CS10 - beautiful...
Posted by: torhu

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:38 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Watch the FP-80 video, and you'll see a caption overlaid that mentions the tonewheel sim. The 80 also includes the rotary effect.


Cool. I can see the tonewheel editor on the display, too.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:46 PM

Has the effects engine on the FP-80 been improved?

I recall that the FP-7F wasn't terribly flexible in this regard - no options to select different effects etc.

James
x
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 05:58 PM

Well , delivery is still 13 weeks off (according to sites) and there's no manual yet, so we have to guess about that. My feeling says it's probably the same as the FP7F in terms of effects (and almost everything else). Improvements really seem to be only SN EP's , speakers and "Airplay" . No new AP , no 256 polyphony , no other fancy things to brag about. The FP7F was a good product, the FP-80 probably still is, but it doesn't impress in the list of improvements / changes / additions so far. Few extra sounds here, some design tweaks there and the rest mostly marketing talk. For new buyers just fine. For FP7F owners I see hardly any reason to upgrade...
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Has the effects engine on the FP-80 been improved?

It looks very similar to the FP-7F, except that you can adjust modulation speed for (presumably) existing non-selectable effects on certain tones. That is a small but welcome improvement, although a depth control would be more useful, IMO.

The Piano Designer, Rotary, EQ and Ambience (Reverb???) effects seem to be very similar to those in the 7F.

Quote:
I recall that the FP-7F wasn't terribly flexible in this regard - no options to select different effects etc.

To put it mildly...
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 06:09 PM

There is only one question: does it have Studio Grand?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 06:14 PM

You know, I really liked the FP-7F as a home instrument. I could live with its minor sonic shortcomings because the PHAIII action connected so well with the SN sound engine. I sold it recently partly because I couldn't abide its EPs, and partly because the lack of editable or controllable effects (for non AP sounds) was extremely limiting.

Going back to the Nord Piano gave me what I needed in one package (although I had to purchase new speakers). But despite the beautiful Fazioli and Bosendorfer samples, the NP can't compete with the seamless way the SN engine translates velocity information. I'd love another Roland SN product, but am doubtful as to whether the FP-80 has sufficient to make it worth it for me.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/04/13 06:30 PM

Originally Posted By: xorbe
There is only one question: does it have Studio Grand?


this
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/05/13 01:56 AM

Why, why why???
Why can't the keyboard industry take it's consumers a little more serious?
I mean, come on, if you are a musician who performs every so often, then you should know what's going on.

Roland: " The convenient rear-panel jack lets you connect an external mic and sing along with your performance..."
Who would really hook up a microphone (with a 1/4 inch jack) to his keyboard in a live situation. Isn't it quite clear that that is truly unprofessional - it is not a home karaoke system. At least put then an XLR input in the machine (with phantom power and a gain knob - I guess it would be asking for too much).

Roland: "The Acoustic Projection sound system is useful for personal monitoring on large stages, and is suitable for primary amplification in intimate venues. "
Now wouldn't that be nice. That is what I have always wished for. And then all they give you is a Stereo-Mini-Phone-Type input??? I don't want to hook up my cell phone or iPad or what ever. I want to input (preferably a symmetric) signal from a mixing board, sound interface, or monitoring system. I could then still hook up my phone if necessary.

Roland: "OUTPUT (L/MONO, R) jacks: 1/4-inch phone type"
Do I have to schlepp DI-boxes around for the rest of my life?

Roland: "Connectors: …USB COMPUTER port: USB Type B"
Presumably only MIDI. My British 2008 masterkeyboard-synth with a built-in audio-interface for 250,- could offer more with its semi-professional A/D D/A converters. Cheesh, it's 2013!!! And this is a ROLAND!!! Give me the piano sounds over USB to my DAW. And vice versa, my DAW to the piano (speakers / outputs …)

Alright, I'm gonna stop nagging. I just had to let my steam out. I really do love Roland. My first synth is a Roland from 1986 and it never needed repairs. Same with my DP from 1988 (some minor repairs to be done by myself). I just wished they (the manufacturers) would stop bringing out unripe products, especially if the technology is there and it is affordable. On one side they claim to bring out "professional" products and yet, some aspects are just sooo cheap. Yes, I would even pay more, but just give it to me.


I wonder if the these companies actually ever read these mostly good arguments and innovative ideas from the users in this forum. (Yes, I know Kawai does.... thanks 2 KJ)
Posted by: MarkF786

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/05/13 12:48 PM

It kills me that the FP-80 (and previous FP-7F) is superior to the FP-505 in many ways (more adjustments in the touch sensitivity, adjustable stretch tuning, Piano Designer, etc); it's very similar to the HP-507. The only advantage of the HP-505 seems to be the cabinet, speakers, and better "Ivory Feel" key surface - and it's $1000 more expensive!

I've been planing to buy an HP-505, but I'm really considering waiting for this instead. I could supplement the sound with a subwoofer if need be.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/05/13 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: MarkF786
and better "Ivory Feel" key surface -


Why is it that the 505 / 507 has a better ivory surface. I may have missed it but I thought all PHA III keybeds were the same in that respect ?
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
More versatile SN pianos (without the dreaded metallic clanking mid range), .


Yep, specifically the Ab & A a +5 and 6th above middle C. It's on the 700NX with the Concert grand but not the Studio grand-very strange. That was a deal breaker for me with that board, I can't believe they missed that.


I see these comments quite regularly and feel always inclined to add my experience.

I don't hear this "metallic clanking" and nor has anybody else I have spoken to.

I have also seen posts defending it as "character".

It is not a problem for many.

There are two sides to every story.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 07:33 AM

But the timbre of certain notes in the mid range changes quickly to a piercing, thin metallic character. The change is not linear with increasing velocity and frankly the result is not musical to my ears. And because not all notes are affected it fails to be a "characteristic" of the SN pianos but is a downright fault in my view. If it were all notes then certain adjustments with touch curves might largely address the behaviour but when it is just a cluster of notes there is nothing satisfactory that can be done.

But if you like it then I'm very happy for you because the SN-equipped Rolands are exceptional in many other respects.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 08:39 AM

When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
When I was shopping DP's I noticed something similar to what EssBrace was talking about when trying the FP7F. I cant quite explain it, but I posted "... The Roland SN piano is very good for the most part, however, still can hear some sort of odd ringing tone around and above middle C. Almost distracting while playing some different pieces. Was able to edit sound and touch to help it a bit. I must admit I even heard that tinny ringing sound even in the RD700nx too."


Yes, I have owned a RD 700 NX since August 2011 and have no problem with it.
I am learning Puccini's, "O Mio Babbino Caro" at the moment, many A flats above middle C, indeed, it starts with three repeats, but I hear no problem.

I have yet to hear it demonstrated anywhere as a "fault", You Tube for example, where the cut-off problem was shown well.

But there you go, as I say. 2 sides to every story.

BTW, I could probably write 2 sides of A4 on the things I dislike about this piano, but I would buy another one if I lost this.
Still the best out there, for me.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 10:56 AM

I completely agree with you regarding "2 sides to every story"

I have an ES7, love it and would buy it again because t's what's best for me at the moment. But, like you I could write a few dislikes too.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
I see these comments quite regularly and feel always inclined to add my experience.

I don't hear this "metallic clanking" and nor has anybody else I have spoken to.

I have also seen posts defending it as "character".

It is not a problem for many.

There are two sides to every story.

I can't hear it either. *shrug* If it's there, ignorance is bliss. Having said that, I prefer Studio over Concert regardless.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/06/13 01:09 PM

A guy who works in my local music store tried the FP-80 when the Roland rep stopped by a couple of weeks ago. He was very impressed with the new speakers. Otherwise no noticeable difference from FP7-F (according to him).
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/07/13 06:53 PM

...alright. I'm gonna jump in the cold water and order it now. (Should be here in 2 weeks).
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/08/13 01:47 AM

Are you sure about the two weeks ? I had an order ready this weekend until I found out that delivery time is either unknown or at least 15 weeks at all the dealers I checked. Europe too (Netherlands).

Wonder where you got the two weeks time range and if it is a reliable estimate ?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/08/13 03:10 AM

Music Store.de says April 19. Maybe they're lying.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/08/13 03:57 AM

There estmated delivery dates shift like ebb and flood. I suspect they do that for all newly introduced products , just to lure people into buying (and then waiting...).

Seen it before.

But hope you're right, since the earlier they are in the hands of customers , the sooner we'll get some user reports. For me I wonder if the Studio Grand is onboard and if the PHAIII in the FP80 is a bit less thumpy, perhaps due to other cabinet design. Wishful thinking, I know...
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/08/13 06:28 PM

One has to admit though, it looks damn similar to the ES7.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/09/13 05:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
One has to admit though, it looks damn similar to the ES7.


Hi Cmin, have you tried the ES7? Might want to rethink the Roland purchase. If you can; compare feature to feature, then action, and then sound - especially with headphones. You might be pleasantly surprised and save a little money.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/09/13 06:23 AM

With all due respect - Roland SN and Kawai PHI are very different. You may or may not like the character of one or the other, but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7. You will hear that especially in the higher regions (high notes) ; they die out more quickly on the Kawai. Nothing to the disadvantage of the Kawai (I like Kawai - which is no secret), but you will have to try them both and decide for yourself - SN AP's and EP's are really good IMHO and if you want to throw extra money at it - Roland is a save choice as well.

And YES , they ES and FP7F / FP80 are very much alike, with the ES offering the most interesting price / feature ratio. At least here in Europe - in the US it's more expensive for some reason.

Other differences - ES7 has better speakers, better EP's, 256 voice polyphony and a more quiet keybed than FP7F; but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speakers and EP's (SN). If the FP80 keybed is still as 'thumpy' remains to be seen. Both keybeds are very good to play (PHI-III vs RH II). Furthermore Roland has a larger display, more sounds and assignable pedal inputs (expression possible - not on ES7), but the ES7 has a nicer optional stand and 3-pedal set. The Roland mic input and harmonizer I see more as a gimmick...

We'll know more about the FP-80 this week, with Musik Messe ; hope someone can find out how good the speakers , keybed and sounds really are, or if it's really for 99% just an FP7F in a new package.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/09/13 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
but technically the SN piano is better in the decay / sustain phase than PHI in the ES7.


True that SN and PHI are different, but but decay /sustain can be adjusted nicely with VT.

Originally Posted By: JFP
but the FP80 might have closed the gap in terms of speaker.


I am very curious about the speakers. This is not ES7 best feature, but still pretty good. If the FP80's speakers get rave reviews i would "consider" looking into Roland. However, Im still not a big SN fan - might just be my ears, as im also one those guys that hears that "...dreaded metallic clanking mid range"

Like you say... we'll know more about the FP80 this week.
Posted by: CarloPiano

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/09/13 01:59 PM

I'm thinking on saving for a FP-50. Those -200 grams made a big difference for me grin Also I guess the speakers will be a bit better than F4-F's... Shame the RD-64 doesn't reach the F1 frown
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/09/13 02:01 PM

I think the speakers of the ES7 are actually quite good for a stage piano with build-in amp+speakers. At least better than most comparable DP's I've encountered so far. None of them is really comparable to separate studio monitors or a high end cabinet DP, but that's also hardly possible if you want to keep it compact and portable. The FP7F speakers we're inferior to the ES, the FP-80 might be on par or better.

By the way , there are no reviews of the FP-80 yet as far as I know and I've certainly not seen any rave reviews . Musik Messe will tell us more I hope.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/10/13 11:32 PM

New Musikmesse video: They look nice but I WANT TO HEAR IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4icBFqTTIfA
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 12:49 AM

Found a video of the new FP-50 and sounds cool!

enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ttkVK11Hw
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 05:48 AM

FP-80 listed at Thomann for 1869 euro. Shipping in 3 weeks time...
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 06:29 AM


Kraft Music saying May 3. $1,999 FP-80

http://www.kraftmusic.com/roland-fp-80-digital-piano-black.html
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 06:39 AM

Does it have the SN Studio Grand (apart from the Concert Grand that was the only SN piano base for the FP7F) ?!

Can anyone on the Messe floor check ??? Any Roland representative ever (?) present on this forum to answer such questions ? Kawai and Casio are doing a great job in that respect ! Even David Weiss from Kurzweil drops in every now and then. Where's Roland ? Ignorant ? Arrogant ? Living in another time and space ?
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 08:44 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Where's Roland ? Ignorant ? Arrogant ? Living in another time and space ?


Roland have their own forum:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/

James
x
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 01:25 PM

Great, they have no FP-80 discussions in their own forum. Weak.

....Has anybody gotten Airplay to work with a MacBook Pro?


Originally Posted By: thomsurf
FP-80 listed at Thomann for 1869 euro. Shipping in 3 weeks time...

Thomann : 1799,- Euro
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 01:59 PM

I guess the extra 70 euros is because I live in Denmark which has a nice 25% tax rate.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 02:00 PM

I noticed that in the specs of FP80 they don't list "Open/close lid" setting in Effects-Piano Designer section, do you think they really took that away? All HP pianos do have this (as far as I know) and I recall that it significantly changes the sound character. Also Brilliance is missing, which was addition to HP 50x models, wasn't it? And lastly, there is no button for Reverb, can it not have reverb?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I guess the extra 70 euros is because I live in Denmark which has a nice 25% tax rate.

Buy it in Germany???

Hookxs: Yeah, I also noticed that. Strange isn't it?
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/11/13 02:06 PM

Thomann varies the price depending on which country they're shipping to...
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/13/13 09:10 PM

Hi my first post.
My fp-7f definitely had a honky tonk sound at approximately the 3rd and 5th octaves, I went back to the store to see if the floor model was the same. It sure was. I showed the salesperson. To prove my point I switched quickly between those notes on Grand Piano 1 and honkytonk piano. The sounds were nearly identical. The sound was less prevelant with earphones which made me believe it was not the speakers fault. The longer you play the more the errant sound spreads to other keys. And I also detected it in other voices. Sounds like a very complicated problem. I returned it for a Kawai ES7. The SN sound is a clearly superior sound to the Kawai if it weren't for the problem keys. I'm thinking of exchanging the kawai for an fp-80 but I tried the fp-50 today (fp-80 was in stock) which was on display and I believe I detected that same errant sound as the fp-7f but the store was too busy and lots of pianos playing so not sure. So I wonder if the fp-80 has the problem too.
I also own a baby grand and I'm thinking that maybe I'm spoiled with that sound and people who play digital all the time may get used to a not so perfect sound and might not detect the fp-7f problem.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 02:39 AM

I had one on order (could get a nice price); but when the manual was finally available I found out the FP-80 was 80% identical to the FP7F, meaning:

- same keyed
- same basic AP sound(s) - although sometime with different preset names
- 99% same other sounds
- same display and operation
- same polyphony
- same effects and eq

Improvements:
- speakers
- SN EP's
- rhythms

Gone:
- the looper
- lid simulation (why ?)

I really had hoped the other sample bases like Studio Grand had also made it in the FP-80, giving it a wider pallet of AP sounds. But for pure AP playing , I thought the differences where to small to justify the investment. So cancelled and still on the hunt...
Posted by: peterws

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 02:39 AM

Usually an acoustic piano will be less perfectly in tune than a digital. So to even up things, the makers throw in the odd out of tune note for a bit of realism. That`s my theory. I don`t think it works . . . my piano has the opposite fault - a note which is perfect unison. But it is sampled over the next 5 . . .I live reasonably happily with it.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 03:23 AM

JFP, I believe the FP-7F had rhythm accompaniments too - it's just they were called 'Session Partner'.

James
x
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 04:29 AM

I know - but the FP-80 accompaniment has been reworked, extended and improved.

But personally I don't care at all about these gadgets ; just want good action, good and realistic sounds and a good connection between the two. If a good speaker system is added as a bonus , that could in practice save me the hassle of extra external equipment ; but if better speakers is the main improvement of the FP-80 and all else is roughy the same, then IIMHO the Roland is not innovative enough to justify the steep price. I know the EP's are SN too now, but that is not totally new either, they have been around on some other models for a quite while.

The addition of the 'other' AP sample sound sets (studio grand/ brilliant grand) would have made me buy the FP-80, despite the fact that the keybed may still be as 'thumpy' as in the previous Roland models (no comments from people who tried the FP-80 on that ??) . Because I simply like the sound of the Studio Grand better than the 'standard' SN AP you find in most models.

Now I consider to go all software or wait for some more reports on the alternatives that have other advantages:
- software and fixed setup (not for take-away) as I was planning to do in the first place (VPC1),
- low weight, interesting price and many sounds and features (PX5S + extra MIDI box for half-damping) ,
- extended masterkeyboard functionality, relatively light weight and still the option to use internal sounds (Pysispiano K4)
- Nice wooden action, relative light weight (!) and an AP grand sound I liked so far (from the only demo that is available); SL Numa Concert

But I'm hijacking the conversation here. Please continue...- only thing I tried to emphasize is that for AP playing I think the FP7F are pretty much the same , apart from the speakers; making the FP-80 such a strange beast for a "new" product. Too much recycling, to little innovation...
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 04:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Great, they have no FP-80 discussions in their own forum. Weak.


Considering the lack of innovation as described above I think it won't attract much attention and people seriously consider the (often cheaper) alternatives. Why is it that Roland thinks they have to sell products by adding Airplay like functionality (it had an input already to plug-in your playing device) ? It's a piano ; improve where it counts and people will come (not in gimmicks and gadgets).

Just my thoughts
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 08:59 AM

FP-80

Again, I just want to hear the damn thing!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqt1nCYeks
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 10:15 AM

@marko,

Have you seen the Messe floor recording of the Numa Concert; all talk and talk and talk and he touched the keys exactly zero time. Strange way to sell a keyboard, but it seems to be quite common...
Posted by: slipperykeys

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 10:47 AM

You have got to laugh at these "demos", if Beethoven is reincarnated in today's Germany I bet he is a computer programmer this time around.
He'd be a good one, obviously..... just keep looking for a computer programmer with lots of hair and a hearing-aid.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 10:58 AM

I saw that too. It's driving me crazy! very simple; stop "talking" about the features. I want to "read" about the features and specs. Why would you not "play" the keyboard in a video demo is beyond my comprehension.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 11:08 AM

We'll , they don't actually drive the new cars on the show floor at a car exhibition either. Just missing the barby models you usually see at an auto show ;-) That would make up for the lack of audio demo's a little..., if your ears can't get nothing , your eyes...
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 11:29 AM

If indeed the fp-80 is just a recycled fp 7f , and it's the same price as well, then maybe they have fixed the 'honkytonk' sound coming through the grand piano 1 and that is the sole purpose of this new product.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 12:34 PM

It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so ...
Posted by: KLSinCT

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
FP-80

Again, I just want to hear the damn thing!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqt1nCYeks



Dumb question: Is the "Ivory-S" key-action in this new model the same as the PHA-III action with triple sensors in my FP-7F? I've yet to find a straight answer to this basic question...

K.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 01:01 PM

Seems like losing the looper and lid simulation are huge losses to me. They are probably still there, just inaccessible.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 01:14 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
I had one on order (could get a nice price); but when the manual was finally available...


Where did you get the manual? It is not on rolandus.com web site.

BTW: FP-50 can be heard on these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5ttkVK11Hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWirjnQYRTg
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 02:30 PM

Correct - inside information. I think it wasn't ready yet for public release, but seemed pretty final.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 03:45 PM

JFP : "It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so "

I'm talking about the buzzing sound coming from certain sections of the keyboard on the fp-7f. Whether this was corrected on the fp 80. If it is I'm buying one.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
JFP : "It's the same grand-piano sound (sample base), so "

I'm talking about the buzzing sound coming from certain sections of the keyboard on the fp-7f. Whether this was corrected on the fp 80. If it is I'm buying one.

Just out of curiosity, why in this case would you prefer the FP80 to the RD700NX. Price perhaps, or some other function? Can't be the speakers (please!).
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 07:26 PM

I prefer the fp 80 because of price mainly and I don't mind the small speakers as the piano will be used only at home with headphones also it's smaller in size. Both these pianos are available in the Toronto area. I only tried the fp 50 and I couldn't determine if Roland fixed the buzzing sound found in many fp 7f's as there was too much noise in the showroom.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 10:22 PM

Here's a demo of the FP-80:
Roland FP-80

Unfortunately, as usual, the sound quality of the recording is not the best, but it does give an idea of the main features. Still no word on whether there is a new sample alongside the Concert Grand, or whether it's just variations on a theme.

As a side note, I was looking at the Casio PX-5S as a possible lightweight gigging board. I went into GC today to have another go on the PX-350, to see whether I might rethink whether the APs would work for me. While they are silky-smooth sounding and dynamic, I find the upper-mids a trifle annoying, and I noticed how jumpy the action/sound connection can be. I've decided to pass on the PX-5S (although I think that it offers a huge bang for the buck, if you need all the non-piano stuff), and I'm considering the new FPs. The FP-50 is nowhere near as lightweight as the Casio, and it misses a few nice features of the FP-80, but I'm thinking it could be a very versatile small gigs board, in the absence of anything competitive from Yamaha.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/14/13 11:22 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Here's a demo of the FP-80:
Roland FP-80

Unfortunately, as usual, the sound quality of the recording is not the best, but it does give an idea of the main features. Still no word on whether there is a new sample alongside the Concert Grand, or whether it's just variations on a theme.


Well spotted Vox.

He says something like "12 acoustic piano sounds". Well, FP-7F has what, three? All the same piano. I reckon there's a healthy chance the Studio Grand - or something very like it - is onboard the FP-80. I like the look and spec of this thing. Another winner for Roland I expect.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/15/13 01:51 AM

Studio Grand is not onboard.

It has more AP presets/ other preset names, but all based on the same sample-set as before. Perhaps some slight changes in programming of designer or EQ ? If it had the 'other' SN AP's I would have bought it, since I got a good price offer ! That's why I checked with several Roland reps and got the manual from inside to check myself. Sorry...

About the Casio ;
yes for a piano it didn't do it for me either - not as sophisticated / subtle keybed to sound connection as with more expensive board. Keybed also has only three preset touch curves, neither worked for me personally for AP. Also the AP is good for gigging an rock / pop stuff , but for classical and delicate Jazz the upper halve is too much "pling pling" and audible looping in high notes, despite longer samples. PX5S is a very very nice board, but for pure AP it doesn't do it for me. For people searching for an all-round board with many nice sounds and features it's a no-brainer at this price...I almost pre-ordered it twice, meaning how tempting it is. If I'd needed something for a band, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. And that's also it's intended audience mostly, considering it's a lightweight stage piano / controller board.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/15/13 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Studio Grand is not onboard.


That's disappointing, really. It is supposed to have 14 piano tones but I guess it will be one or two pianos, plus endless combinations of piano+something plus the unavoidable honky tonk which nobody ever uses. Sad. I find it hard to believe that company with so little innovative effort could have brought the V-Piano.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/15/13 03:38 AM

The "innovation " is in the speakers, adding SN Ep's (which they should have done in the first place on the FP7f) and gimmicks like AirPlay . If your using headphones or external speakers and are mainly interested in the action and AP, the FP80 is the same as the FP7f IMHO.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/15/13 07:00 AM

Thanks JFP. Odd that they wouldn't utilise the Studio Grand in other products although I guess it adds perceived value to the RD-700NX as an exclusive voice. That said, they make no claims in that regard so they haven't capitalised as they could have done in relation to a marketing advantage for the RD.

I know the quality of the audio is poor on the video but to be fair I don't hear so much of the metallic velocity transitions so maybe the pianos are tweaked slightly?

So, how much better are the speakers? The FP7's are rudimentary to say the least, giving the pianos a compressed, muffled and indistinct character in my opinion.

Cheers,

Steve
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/15/13 06:37 PM

Any idea of how the key action of the FP-80 is? I mean is the same (loud, thumpy) as the previous Roland models?

Regards,
Kromen
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/16/13 08:01 PM

Got my fp 80 today. Very much like the fp 7f. Looks like the onboard recorder records only one layer. Also the headphone jack is standard 1/4 inch size. I still can hear a buzzing from a couple of areas of the keyboard but had no time to dicker with equalizer etc to try correcting. Xtra speakers sound noticeably better.
Posted by: dewster

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/16/13 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
I went into GC today to have another go on the PX-350, to see whether I might rethink whether the APs would work for me. While they are silky-smooth sounding and dynamic, I find the upper-mids a trifle annoying...

I've noticed this too in the various on-line demos. Kind of "plinky" or something in the upper-mids.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/16/13 09:53 PM

I think it has something to do with the room or the position in the room. When I bought mine they took one out of stock for me to test as they only had the fp 50 displayed. The fp 80 sounded very good in the store.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 03:37 AM

Free Thinker: Tell us more. Where did you get yours? How does it feel? Are the speakers louder or clearer than the FP-7F? What pianos are on board? How are EPs?

Waiting for my delivery impatiently.... it's killing me.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 04:52 AM

- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 06:19 AM

Sorry JFP, from your previous post I assumed you had played the FP-80 - when you say categorically that the Studio Grand is not onboard. But now you're asking if there's "any improvement/change in SN AP sounds". So you don't actually know the Studio Grand is not on it? It may not be called that but that voice - or something related to it - may be onboard. None of us know yet it would appear.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 08:11 AM

Here is a nice and simple demo of the FP-50 from a Polish site (e-Muzyk.pl) at the FFM. He demonstrates the AP sounds in good sound quality.

And here is another demo of the FP-80 from our italian friends (www.suoniestrumenti.it). Thanks to John Maul for rockin out. ...Also pretty good quality.

Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 08:26 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Sorry JFP, from your previous post I assumed you had played the FP-80 - when you say categorically that the Studio Grand is not onboard. But now you're asking if there's "any improvement/change in SN AP sounds". So you don't actually know the Studio Grand is not on it? It may not be called that but that voice - or something related to it - may be onboard. None of us know yet it would appear.


I know it's not on board -> I checked that out with several Roland Reps, People from a Roland dealer and from the Manual - before it was out in the shops, or the manual online. All indicated that the SN AP sounds was NOT extended with the Studio or Brilliant. If the Studio WAS indeed in teh FP-80 , I would have the FP-80 right now under my hands (local stock arrived yesterday).

What I am curious about however is if the basic SN sounds - presumably based on the same samples as on the FP7F - have been improved somewhat in one way or another. Also if the keybed is slightly less thumpy. If both are noticeably better than before, I might put the FP back on my shortlist again, despite the absence of Studio Grand.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 10:42 AM

For my situation (at home)the onboard speakers are great. I tried the other piano sounds and I was impressed with them although I don't recall their names since I use mostly Grand piano. I love the keyboard. If I have one complaint it's a kind of distortion that I heard only once or twice. Similar to the fp-7f I had which I returned. As I said I have not as yet tackled that, it could be room placement , equalizer, etc. The piano in-store did not have this problem. I bought it at Long And Mcquaid's in the Toronto area for $1960.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 01:50 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.


I subscribe to JFP's questions. Free-thinker - could you tell us more about the piano, especially the points listed above? If you could post some (solo piano) recording, it would be icing on the cake:-)
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Hookxs
Originally Posted By: JFP
- How is the new onboard speaker configuration performing ? Is it really good, or do you still require external monitors ?
- How is the keybed - same thumpy-ness as the FP7F / RD700NX ? Perhaps less keynoise / bottoming out due to slightly other cabinet ?
- Any improvement / change in SN AP sound(s) ?!

Those are the most important parts of the FP-80 I'm very curious about.


I subscribe to JFP's questions. Free-thinker - could you tell us more about the piano, especially the points listed above? If you could post some (solo piano) recording, it would be icing on the cake:-)


I subscribe to this petition too :D, because I am between this one and a Kawai ES7 (if I can find one frown here in México)

Regards,
Oscar
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 07:20 PM

Hi, IMO the speakers are at least 50% louder than the fp-7f and are louder than the es7 which I returned Sunday. I liked the es7 but the sound was too mellow for my taste and it didn't have many sounds or any drum kits . I will never need external speakers for the fp-80 as they are plenty loud for just using in large room at home.
I never tried the rd700nx but I believe the keyboard is the same as the fp-7f which I liked anyways especially after spending 45min at the store using various keyboards. Yes there is thumping when pressing keys when powered off if that's what you mean.
As far as the SN ap sounds on the fp-80 I like them and find most of them realistic but can't give you a definite answer because I rarely used them on the fp-7f to compare the two.
the first 3 pianos are very good-- 1-concert piano, 2-balladepiano, 3-bright piano also 10- comp piano.
the others ; dreamy piano, piano + ep, piano + strings, piano + pad, piano + choir, magical piano, rock piano, ragtime, harpsichord, coupled hps -- some seem a little gimmicky and I doubt I will use them much.
I hope that helps but there is nothing like going down there and trying them out for yourself since it is a very personal thing. For instance the es7 I returned was too mellow almost hollowed-out sounding for me and prefer the fp=80 even though I may never resolve the twangy noise at d# 3 and the 2 adjacent notes.
By the way Oscar, where are you in Mexico? Just got back from a great 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta.
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 08:44 PM

Hi, thanks free thinker for your info.

Regarding this, could you tell me how the FP-80 key action of the compares with the ES7 ?

Quote:
By the way Oscar, where are you in Mexico? Just got back from a great 3 weeks in Puerto Vallarta.

Nice! thats a beautiful place to vacation (like many here in México wink )
I live in Yucatán Peninsula (in southeastern México) which also is a really nice place to vacation, so I cant really blame on that laugh

Regards,
Oscar
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 08:59 PM

I liked the action on the fp-80 immediately (and equal or better than es7) and I'm used to a young chang baby grand. The ivory feel is also a plus and better than the shiny plastic of the grand.
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/17/13 11:29 PM

Awesome, thanks free thinker

Regards,
Oscar
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 06:28 AM

Thank you free thinker! It seems to me that after years of hard work on the most realistic piano samples, their names have been perfected. Or am I just too cynical?:-) Anyway, glad that you are happy with the piano, I believe that it is pretty good board.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 08:03 AM

This is just how I expected it to sound (starting at 1:03) ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNSJR0NZ54

Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 09:27 AM

You mean totally distorted ?! I assume you're being cynical. About SN : if they got it right (or almost right) in the first place, then why would the same sound 2 years later suddenly be completely outdated.

Kurzweil milked their triple for , what...about 20 years ? And it's still on current boards. Yamaha seems to be in recycling mode as well, and Korg doesn't seem to get that smoothing effects like string resonance, unnoticable layer switching are also part of the job, apart from long samples. Casio has larger sample ram, but uses the same piano sample as before, just longer. I would have liked to see an enhanced SN version 2 from Roland as well, but even without the SN is still one of the better sounding DP sounds out there. Apart from SW Piano's of course.

Funny thing is no-one has still any idea yet if the SN AP is 100% exactly the same as in the FP7f, or that Roland introduced indeed some slight improvements. And then I don't mean only in the preset naming...Edit: we'll one thing I found is that the FP-80 has soundboard behavior modeling, whereas the FP7f has not.
Posted by: mabraman

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 11:52 AM

I hardly believe that the ES7 is more "mellow" than any Roland. No way, unless you were talking about the upper octaves, those so-called metallic.
In fact, the main characteristic of the Rolands is their sweet and deep low register.Isn't it?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 02:36 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Edit: we'll one thing I found is that the FP-80 has soundboard behavior modeling, whereas the FP7f has not.


What do you mean with soundboard behavior???
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 02:56 PM

At Merriam music in Oakville Ontario they had an fp 7f and a es7 back to back in the middle of the floor. You could play both pianos at the same time. What a difference. The fp 7f sounded so much clearer and brighter. The es7 dull in comparison. But on it's own the es7 was also compelling. Just don't play it alongside the fp 7f. Yet tastes in sound are personal and someone might prefer the es7.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 03:07 PM

My HP-505 has a setting "soundboard" which upon usage at higher values lets the single tones of a block played chord sound a little bit more transparent / slightly moved stronger to the foreground and away of all this resonances noise background. It is a very, very subtle fine tuning of the SN behaviour, something you would rarely notice if not sitting in front of the DP and searching in the sound for changes when changing this parameter. It might be the same on the FP?
Posted by: cubeman

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 03:54 PM

Hi free thinker,

I'm also considering this vs the Kawai ES7. Are you able to elaborate how it sounds against the ES7 using purely the onboard speakers? I know you say it is louder... I was also previously put off the FP7F by the stupendous noise the keybed made. Is it still really quite loud?

Thanks!
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 04:23 PM

@ Marco - do you think the soundboard effects is comparable to the similar named effect StudioLogic claims with the new Numa Concert (listen to the demo's in the Numa Concert thread) ?
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 07:32 PM

I never thought of the keybed noise as a problem on the fp 7f and yes the fp 80 has it too. I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in. Also the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits. I returned the es7 for that reason as the salesman told me the es7 had those things. If you don't need more sounds or drums the es7 might be for you but if you're buying the roland test it thoroughly.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/18/13 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
...the es7 has only a few sounds and no drum kits.


Just to clarify, the ES7 features 32 sounds that can be selected via the instrument's front panel. There are a number of additional sounds (including 4 drum kits) used for the instrument's 'Rhythm Section' accompaniment feature and MIDI song playback, however these cannot be accessed via the front panel.

It's unfortunate that the sales person did not make this point clear to you.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
I only had the fp 7f for a week and returned it because of the metallic noise coming from some keys. But it's looking like the fp 80 has that noise too. I'm thinking of returning it as well but in the store I couldn't detect the noise that I hear at home. I am first going to try several things beforw I return it maybe get a Roland tecnician in.


Out of curiosity: what kind of metallic noise do you mean:

1) Is it also audible over headphones ?
2) Is it only audible at high volume over the speakers (material resonance)
3) Is it ONLY in one, or several AP presets, or also noticeable in the other sounds like EP etc ?

If it's audible only in certain AP presets that are based on the same sampleset AND also over headphones, I think it is part of the sound itself and you can either choose to live with it or not. One thing you might try if that turns out to be the case , is dial back ALL virtual piano effects , like string resonance, hammer noise and all the rest. Than you have a clean sample based piano sound without processing. If the metallic noise is than gone, it might be one of the virtual piano effects. Try adding the effects back one-by-one and see what causes the metallic noise.

I'm very curious what the answers are and what you can find out.
Posted by: JazzyMac

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 07:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Here is a nice and simple demo of the FP-50 from a Polish site (e-Muzyk.pl) at the FFM. He demonstrates the AP sounds in good sound quality.

And here is another demo of the FP-80 from our italian friends (www.suoniestrumenti.it). Thanks to John Maul for rockin out. ...Also pretty good quality.



Thanks very much for posting this. I loved how Maul gave different examples and samples of the piano. It's exactly what I wanted in a piano (before I knew I wanted it). I wanted a full up piano with piano sound to practice, but I would also love to play around with different sounds that I hear on television, radio, commercials, etc. The Yamaha P155, although a nice piece of equipment, doesn't give me that.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
If I have one complaint it's a kind of distortion that I heard only once or twice. Similar to the fp-7f I had which I returned.


Hi free thinker,

Thanks for all the info on your FP-80. Would you elaborate or explain a bit more on the distortion you mention? I assume it occurs on the lower end. At what volume does it occur?

Marko
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 11:43 AM

Thanks JFP I'll try that later when I get home. A bit of a learning curve for me.
The noise is easily apparent on only some keys but the louder the volume then it can be detected in other areas of the keyboard.
It is most easily detected at d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys. This is the same area as the fp 7f.
It is also apparent over headphones but less so. And it is more apparent when you strike the key hard. However some keys will not produce the distrtion no matter how hard you hit the key. I returned the fp7f for that same reason. I believe it is also in the model with 300 in the name. I believe that possibly most Rolands (SN) have this problem but I'm guessing here. And there is the possibility that only some people may hear this noise clearly or you would get more people complaining about it. Or the noise exists only on some pianos.
I have not detected this in any kawai or yamaha.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 01:04 PM

We'll can you check on headphones ? And with other sounds ? And with turning off the piano effects etc as I suggested ? In that way it will be easier to determine what's happening (material/ acoustic resonance, SN processing, the base sample set , your own ears ).

Cheers, J
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 01:08 PM

I did as JFP suggested. Went through all the parameters. Noise still there but slightly less with some adjustments.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 01:14 PM

JFP noise is NOT there with earphones. I'll keep trying with earphones so I can verify that.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 04:54 PM

earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.

What about using the earphones output to connect the speakers ?
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 08:56 PM

Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 10:50 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
Using earphone jack for speakers? I don't think that's possible. Afraid to damage unit.

The earphone jacks can probably drive 32 ohm. The powered speakers probably have 50kOhm input. The reality is that you should probably add additional resistive load to match them up!
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 11:06 PM

Please, no earphone output to speakers! I have an ES7 that sounds absolutely amazing. I use a Mackie mixer with external speakers and headphones. The mixer allows you to achieve "your" near perfect sound. Mixers are not very expensive and can make a world of difference on most DP's through headphones and/or external speakers. However, I don't care much for the Roland SN sounds, but never tried it with a mixer. Maybe it might help adjust that annoying metallic ringing sound.
Posted by: Kromen

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/19/13 11:49 PM

Well I have used my casio px-350 headphones output with my computer speakers (Logitech Z-2300) without any troubles.
Maybe I should stop doing it...

Regards,
Oscar
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
earphone sound is good.
connected to external speakers and can detect noise however they are computer speakers of average quality.


Meaning it's not the sound engine. Leaves the amplifier , speakers, cabinet or a combination of two or three of those.

To rule out external causes:

1) I think it's possible to record directly to USB with the Roland (bypassing the amp/ speaker system). If your make a recording of the problematic region to USB and manage to playback that recording on your stereo installation with the speakers roughly at the same position as the Roland is in. If you have the same 'distortion' , it might be an acoustical resonance in your room.

2) Second thing you can do is put the Roland in another room and see if the distortion is gone. If so - than it indicates the same problem.

Wonder what the result will be...
Posted by: legatoboy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 08:24 AM

Are these keybeds and actions actually the same, I've heard they are? At the Roland site they are described differently:

FP-80
Digital Piano
Keyboard 88 keys (Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement)
RD-700NX Version 2
Keyboard 88 keys (PHA III Ivory Feel Keyboard with Escapement)

I've played the 700NX and really 'got it' in terms of the action 2nd time I went back and tried playing one at Sam Ash. It Felt and responeded really well. Are both these actions 3 sensor?

lb
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 08:33 AM

Technically they are the same. RD has some fake wooden look at the sides to it due to different material used (two layers), but structural and functional they are the same. So if you like the RD keys, the FP won't disappoint you in terms of action.
Posted by: legatoboy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 08:53 AM

Thanks JFP for the verification on that...

In regard Free Thinker's problem with the distorion..

I've posted many times on the Keyboard Forums regarding some of Rolands older stage pianos having distortion and sound control problems for live, every day gigging. Thier use at home and recording or casual gigs etc is a different story. In the course of a 2 gig day my original RD700 (Or even the FP4) could sound good on one gig and horrible on the next. Yamaha's really hold up better in varied sonic environments for live use (at least for me and the music I was playing then). When they introduced the SN sample set and even before with the original FP4/7 I told Dave Ferris the new Rolands were really pretty good, a step up from the original RD700. It's a shame the distortion problems still plague their instruments to some degree regardless if it's notes or their overall leveling problem. When they are set up correctly, and can be heard in an optimum space sonically, I think most people, players and audiences really like the sound. SN is just such a nice sample set and that new action is really wonderful. May sell my FP4 and some other gear and upgrade to an FP80... I'm not letting go of my CP50 though!
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 09:14 AM

I'm still not sure where the 'distortion' is coming from and what kind of distortion he means. If you take many variables out of the equation, it might even turn out to be some acoustical / material resonance of an object in the room itself. Even a keyboard stand might 'ring' at certain notes and in a certain position. So taking the Roland of the stand, putting it in another room and trying again would be a good starting point to get to the bottom of this.

Little ego-trip thread hi-jack why I'm especially interested:
I hope it turns out to be a problem that has nothing to do with the FP-80 itself; had my finger on a good deal on the FP and haven' totally scratched it from my list yet. Put it on hold after your first post about the distortion. Actually my first choice is still the VPC1 , but until now it seems totally impossible to get my hands on one in my own region (won't order from abroad). In the meantime the Roland FP-80 came around and was offered for a decent price; so I started to doubt again, especially since I can get it from a shop in my town with good service. The VPC1 has the better keybed, and with a good virtual piano gives the best AP experience, period ! But also weighs a lot more and misses the internal sounds and speakers for just-in-case situations, or when you DON'T want to have a laptop nearby. Let's see where this ends...

Fingers crossed it's the room , or something in the room that is triggered into some kind of resonance / distortion when playing certain notes. Or indeed even the stand the Roland is put upon. If not - and it's indeed obvious a speaker distortion or cabinet distortion of some kind, it could still be just your unit (cross-check with another FP in the store!). When it turns out that all FP's have this, then Roland has to check the FP series before the next production run on a possible design issue - so that following batches won't have this problem. For you I hope it's an external factor , so you can keep the FP-80 and enjoy it !
Posted by: legatoboy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 09:23 AM

jfp,

With a new instrument release it's always best to let some time go by and hear the consensus about problems/issues from multiple people's response after they hit the street. I may just do that.!
lb
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 09:35 AM

I had the impression Roland was not particularly know for start-up problems with their products. And the FP-80 doesn't seem to be entirely new: more an evolution of the FP7F. In short I wouldn't expect much problems and still don't . Chances are its exemplary or something else...
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 12:42 PM

The distortion sound is very similar to 'honkytonk piano'. It reminds me of an old upright I had with worn hammers and cracked soundboard. I will move the piano to another room when I get home. Thanks for the advice.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 02:16 PM

Try with and without stand to make sure the stand isn't causing the resonance...(just to be more than sure)
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 03:32 PM

I tried it in completely different room and no difference even witout stand. I got to thinking 'what if it's the keys themselves?' So I used the transpose function and this actually worked. If I moved the transpose settng all the way left then no more 'honkytonk' on any key. Even moving it just one notch made a difference. I moved dp to original location but won't be able to test it until sleepers wake up.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 04:02 PM

Do you mean transpose or master tunning? Of you used transposee, then the "distortion" or "resonance" probably just moved several half steps up or down, right?
I think that the first and most important thing to determine is whether or not the distortions are recordable (straight to USB drive and/or from line-outs) or not.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 04:21 PM

I'm puzzled; I totally don't understand what kind of 'distortion' you are referring to. Honkytonk sounds like a problem with the DSP processing, but then it should be audible over headphone as well, which it is not.

1) You don't hear it over headphones
2) You don't hear it with the Roland turned is off (meaning it's not the mechanics of the keybed itself at these keys)
3) You don't hear it at those keys , when you transpose the sound a semitone up or down. Does the distortion than also move one semitone up or down ?
4) Can you listen very carefully where the distortion is coming from. I mean is it obviously a distorted sound coming from the speakers , or does it seem to be coming more from the DP cabinet (like a case resonance ; sometimes it helps then to put your hand on the cabinet at different positions and see if it disappears ).
5) Is it only with certain AP presets, or also with other sounds like EP at those same keys ?

Is it possible to record some passage that indicates the problem ? Or does it not appear on the recording when you record directly to USB (in fact bypassing the speakers). I hope you can provide us with an example - I find it hard to imagine what you're hearing at this point.

To go back at the beginning: you say you detect it at certain areas of the keyboard (d#3 and the 2 adjacent keys) ; do you mean that the sound over the speakers distorts when playing these keys, or that the distorted sound seems to be coming from underneath those physical keys (mechanical) ?
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 04:26 PM

When I moved the transpose indicator all the way left then the irritating sound completely disappeared off the keybed. However if I moved it a notch then the sound moved one or two keys as well. Since there are sleepers in the house I will have to wait to get more definitive results.
I'm thinking (maybe over-thinking)that since the "sound" occurs in a few keys between the lower register and the mid register then if you transpose lower, you can't hear that sound because it is now in an area with rich and vibrant overtones that characterise the lower register.
btw What is master-tuning?
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 04:40 PM

The sound comes from the speakers and not from any cabinet vibration. I tried placing hands firmly on cabinet to see if this affects sound but nothing. The sound is there with all pianos but less with some pianos. Good idea to record and play back to see what happens. I'll keep you informed.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/20/13 05:24 PM

Well if you transpose , the usual thing that happens is that you play the exact same notes of the sound-enigine, but from other physical keys. So it would be logical that if you transpose one whole note down, the annoying sound will play one key down from the original key it occurred. Still with the same sound and pitch that is. A simple transpose doesn't normally shift the base notes independently from the overtones and resonances. Some instruments , like Kurzweil , have independent shifting as an extra feature - but then it's used as a special effect, not for a simple transpose.

In your case and when the sound shifts as expected up and down with the transpose function, that could mean two things:

1) It's simply part of the sound and sound engine and so fixed part of the sound character. But then it should also be audible in the same way over headphones.

2) This particular key, or key combination triggers a certain resonance effect and/or distortion in the amplifier or speaker system. This could be because it touches the natural resonance of one or more parts of the system , or because of a malfunctioning part in the signal chain that becomes more obvious if triggered by these particular frequencies. In both cases it's either a flaw , a bad design , or both. If it's a flaw it could be exemplary and you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's. If its a bad design, that's worse - cause it would mean all FP-80's have this behavior. I wonder if that's the case; someone at Roland must certainly have noticed this at some stage (?!).

So:
- if your 100% sure the effects is not audible on headphones, you'd have to crosse check against other FP-80's to see if it's just your unit. If it IS only your unit - it's simply bad luck and you could exchange it for another that doesn't show this problem. If all FP-80's in the store show this behavior and it's quite obvious, then someone should contact Roland and make them aware of what's happening. They can't solve it if they don't know about it and the longer they get no feedback , the more units are produced with the same design flaw.

Still , for now I hope it's only your unit. That's bad enough already, but it means you can get it fixed by exchanging the instrument , forget about what happened and enjoy the FP-80 ;-)
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 10:04 AM

I'm sure I never heard the distortion on earphones. Yet this is not a black/white issue. There were times, brief times though, when I could not here that sound. Even last night after returning the DP to it's original location, I could not produce that sound. This is baffling. So now it looks OK. (maybe using the transpose function had something to do with it) But I have the feeling that it will return. In the store I did hear that sound on the fp-4f and the 300nx? and also on the fp 7f but not consistently. I think some weird phenomenon is at play here. Something sets it off.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 12:35 PM

Gee, this is really getting confusing.
Tomorrow I hope to shed some light on all of this. I'm awaiting a (great) delivery smile
I'll be sure to give it a good work through and give you the results. I will also post to the DPBSD Project.
Truly can not wait....
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 01:52 PM

Weird. Hope your FP-80 is flawless Cmin. I had one on order and cancelled it after free thinker's first remarks. I first wanted to wait for more information on the phenomenon he experienced. If it's all OK in the end and yours is good as well, I wonder if I should have let my order go through. There you see how much influence a forum can have on purchase decisions ! So be careful with what you post ; I may have been a bit too critical myself as well in the past, but you learn from your mistakes. I had some issues , that we're partly an exemplary fault indeed , but also simply part of the way the product was designed and was supposed to work. I think in general it's best to first work out all the details yourself and in collaboration with the shop and manufacturer and THEN post your results, if they are important enough to share with the world. Curious to your review of the FP-80 and if you have a similar experience as free thinker and what you think of the rest of the FP. My list of interest again:

1) Any improvement in SN AP sound as far as you can judge over the previous series ?
2) Is the keybed still thumpy as we know from the PHA_III based keys untill now, or has some slight alteration softened the landing (you would think Roland might have taken notice by now ?)
3) How are the speakers ; really immersive 3D "projection" sound as the marketeers would like us to believe , or simply good speakers ;-)

Cheers, J
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 02:21 PM

I could not detect any improvement of sn sound over the fp-7f.
Keyboard still thumpy but not anymore than my acoustic piano, I guess I'm used to the thumps.
I think the speakers are good but not great.In the demo it sounds fantastic but somehow they have optimized that feature.
I have not played piano since yesterday and as i said it is too early too tell if the improvement is permanent.
Posted by: Lelax

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 02:27 PM

NAMM holds the big show each January for the newest in digital music.
Interesting that the acronym NAMM has multiple meanings:

NAMM International Music Products Association
NAMM National Association of Music Merchants
NAMM National Association of Memorial Masons (est. 1907; Warwickshire, England, UK)
NAMM National Association of Music Manufacturers
NAMM National Association for Moisture Management (St. Petersburg, FL)
NAMM National Association of Mirror Manufacturers

Best writing practice is to dump the NAMM or at least be specific, besides the fact that Acronyms are Dumb.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 04:08 PM

WAYTA?
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 04:22 PM

Bot ?
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 05:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Lelax
Best writing practice is to dump the NAMM or at least be specific, besides the fact that Acronyms are Dumb.


Smoke another one!
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 05:54 PM

I think Lelax took a mental ExLax
Posted by: Lelax

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/21/13 07:46 PM

We are hoping for better, but prepared for bitter disappointment and sadness.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 12:54 AM

Dear Lelax,
when we talk about NAMM, you can be sure it's not going to be about the National Association of Mirror Manufacturers or even the National Association for Moisture Management.

ok, let's get back to the topic and keep this thread on topic - and that is the FP-80 and FP-50 (No, I will not spell them out).
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 11:00 AM

So, it arrived about 2 hours ago. Here are my first impressions:

+Nice.
+Loud! (definitely a lot louder and clearer than the FP-7F)
+372 Sounds (Tones)
+True SN Concert Piano
+Drawbar Organs
+Great E-pianos and organs

-No Studio Grand
-E-Pianos are not SN adjustable
-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones.
-No open/closed lid
-No audio over USB cable to computer (only MIDI)
-Mini-stereo-jack input

Key thumping??? Well it's not that bad. I guess it's quite normal considering the weighted keys. I couldn't tell you if the key action is different to the FP-7F, considering I only played it once at the store.

...These are just my first findings and impressions. I will keep you updated (as I have luckily the next couple of days off).
All in all I am very happy with this instrument and I am sure it will fulfill my needs for the years to come.
So long for now, gotta get busy with them keys....
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 12:06 PM

Congrats! It's good to hear that you are happy with the piano. Would you mind posting some recording (of solo piano) for our curiosity? Thanks:-)
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 03:09 PM

"-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones."

Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ? Is it only in the first concert grand preset or also in other presets (that may be based on the same base SN AP sample material). I assume you mean that this impurity is part of the SN sound itself and not some resonance or distortion in the cabinet / speaker system ?

All in all , how would you describe the feeling when you play ; do you have the idea that you're really 'into' the sound and can articulate well and that there's a good connection between the action and the sound you produce ? I'm not looking for the last bit of authenticity in the AP sound, but wonder if the playability is a good representation of what you would experience when playing an acoustic. (Yes, I know it's a bad comparison, because the sound comes from speakers etc, but something can be said about how well it works as a stand-in for an acoustic ?)

Last thing: you say the speakers are loud. Roland has introduced the two way systems as a "revolutionary" sound projection system. Expensive word to describe it that way ;-) Anyway , do you have the feeling you're immersed a bit in the sound it produces, or is it all marketing bla bla and the speakers sound OK, but that's it ? (Do they produce enough base / bottom ?)
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 09:18 PM

cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/22/13 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ?

If it's like RD-700NX, then at certain mid-velocities, there is a slight metallic twang. I know I've praised Studio Grand up and down, but I've dialed in a Concert Grand edit that's really growing on me -- it feels more dynamic than Studio Grand.

Originally Posted By: free thinker
cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB

I suspect that requires a custom Windows driver, as it's probably not part of the universal midi-over-USB spec. It certainly could be done if they wanted too -- it's a very low bandwidth activity.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 03:48 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB


Yes, I find this a pity. I want to record to my DAW staying on the digital level. That means I have to either use a USB stick with audio (44.1kHz, 16 bit) then import it to my computer, which is not very professional. Or, go analog out. Meaning, the signal would be converted from D/A then again A/D - also not very professional. Of course, there is the possibility to buy an iPhone or iPad (which I am NOT going to do) and use the wireless Wifi app from Roland - also not very professional.
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.
Irony: The update would most likely be the FP-80F for ONLY 1800,- euro.

Today I will still post some audio examples of the Concert Piano.

C U
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 04:30 AM

Well I always found recording to USB stick and putting it in my Mac not such a big deal. It works simple and quick. Wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Unless what you mean is that you want to record FP80 sounds into a sequencer arrangement; in which case it would have been nice to have a digital signal path or even better have the FP act as a software plug-in in your DAW. Some manufacturers DO offer that functionality for their workstations and synths. I think DP's have another purpose in their view and don't need such sophisticated features or DAW integration.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ? Is it only in the first concert grand preset or also in other presets (that may be based on the same base SN AP sample material). I assume you mean that this impurity is part of the SN sound itself and not some resonance or distortion in the cabinet / speaker system ?


I noticed a slight high pitched ring or maybe synthetic noise in some areas when played at certain velocities. For me it is not bad - I can live with it. It is in the sound itself definitely (I heard it over both the speakers and headphones). I messed around with the SN parameters and believe it might have been one of those that caused it (some resonance) because it seemed to be better after that.
To be honest, I didn't really use much of the other piano sounds because they are not worth the effort frown

Originally Posted By: JFP
All in all , how would you describe the feeling when you play ; do you have the idea that you're really 'into' the sound and can articulate well and that there's a good connection between the action and the sound you produce ? I'm not looking for the last bit of authenticity in the AP sound, but wonder if the playability is a good representation of what you would experience when playing an acoustic. (Yes, I know it's a bad comparison, because the sound comes from speakers etc, but something can be said about how well it works as a stand-in for an acoustic ?)


IMHO I really like the feel. And yes, I think after getting a little used to it, it won't be a problem to get 'into' the sound and 'articulate' my playing. A DP (IMHO) will never be as authentic as an AP - but for what it is, it's great.

Originally Posted By: JFP
Last thing: you say the speakers are loud. Roland has introduced the two way systems as a "revolutionary" sound projection system. Expensive word to describe it that way ;-) Anyway , do you have the feeling you're immersed a bit in the sound it produces, or is it all marketing bla bla and the speakers sound OK, but that's it ? (Do they produce enough base / bottom ?)


Being a sound engineer for the past 25+ years.....
Roland did put some thought in their new 'Acoustic Projection'. It is very pleasant for what it is. Having such 'small' speakers, it does engulf the player into his/her instrument. The bass sounds are pretty full (sure, you don't have a sub woofer) and the highs are very clear sounding. Of course, one can not compare to high-end monitors - but then again, there is no hassle with all the schlepping, cabling, stands.... The sound emits directly from the instrument and that is the way it is supposed to be, I find. I like to feel the vibrations at my finger tips smile

BUT.... forget that with the microphone input. What a gimmick. If you are a pianist who sings at the same time (like me) look for other possibilities. There is an EQ on board, but it affects the piano sound as well at the same time. If you want to have reverb ("ambience") on the voice but not on the piano - no way (EDIT: Yes, ok, it does work). The other way is no problem, no reverb on voice, but on piano. The harmony effect is funny - and that's about it.
I will have to go the conventional/old way and do my voice processing outside of the keyboard and input it through the mini jack input.
Oh, I almost forgot: that mini jack does not have a separate volume control.

Hope that answers some of your questions JFP.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 05:20 AM

"that mini jack does not have a separate volume control."

I think hardly any DP with an audio input has that (exception defines the rule). Also it's probably a clean input line to the amp/speaker system is it ? I mean, without going though the 'correcting' EQ that is part of the signal patch when playing internal sounds. Without this EQ the sound is not optimized for the totally un-flat response a speaker in cabinet design has and any music you play over it sounds unbalanced and weird. True ? Or DOES Roland put the input channel before this EQ , I wonder...

Yeh...microphone. Couldn't care less. Rather had some more routing options on the Roland and/or 256 polyphony ; ditch the gimmicks and use the saved-up resources for enhancements where it really matters.

BTW - do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?

Happy the speakers are OK and also that the impurity is not a real 'distortion' of some kind, but more part of the sound character and can even be dampened somewhat by playing with the SN parameters. All-in-all ; the Roland is a keeper and worth the money ? (hard to tell - cause as an owner you always feel tempted to justify your purchase no matter what, but anyway).

Oh.. and external monitors; I know what you mean, I've always used some HQ studio monitors, but never had the feeling I was digging into the instruments cause there is always some separation in such a setup between the instrument and perceived sound source. When the speakers are build-in and it's cleverly done, you have more of the impression sound + instrument is one. Especially when you have some tactile feedback as well. Never mind the quality of the speakers is not on par with any studio monitor set.
Posted by: thomsurf

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 07:13 AM

Put my hands on an FP-50 yesterday. Not a big variety of AP sounds but the Concert sounded descent over the somewhat small speakers. To my surprise the action felt better and less noisy than on my own RD300-NX, even though they share the same keybed. I suppose the different cabinets has an effect on key beheaviour.
A nice little DP it is.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 07:20 AM

Yes, the input is BEFORE EQ!!! frown That means, everything (the FP-80, the Mic input and even the line input) go through the internal EQ. How frustrating.
Furthermore, the 'Mic Harmony' is also in the line input - not only Mic input (the way it should be). So theoretically, if one is playing to let's say to an MP3, phone, or whatever going into the FP-80 and you have a mic in the mic input and you want to use the 'Harmony' effect, everything except the FP-80 sound will be 'harmonized'. grrrr.
Another thing I noticed: If 'Local control' is off (because I want to use external sounds; such as plugins from a computer) the damper release of the FP-80 is still there, audible. You have to move to a different sound internally that doesn't use the damper release in order for it to work correctly.

JFP: "do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?"
No the other sounds are not rubbish. But they are just, how should I say..., nothing special. Out of the 14 sounds in the Pianos, maybe 6-7 are useable. I don't need Piano with E-Piano, or Piano with Strings. If I need them I just layer them myself.

Just to make things a bit clearer to everyone. Here is
my live setup.

And here is the back of the FP-80.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 07:30 AM

So the signal routing sucks...if your interested in using the external inputs. For pure piano pleasure it doesn't matter. By the way - I don't mean the use adjustable EQ m but an 'invisible' fixed internal EQ stage that is in between sound engine and speakers on a DP , to compensate for the non-flat frequency response of the (uncorrected) sound system. This EQ is of course not between engine and headphones. And often not available for the external input.

It's easy to hear. Compare a piece of music played from an USB stick over the internal speakers and the same piece over a playback device connected to the external audio input. If they sound totally different (usually the USB version correct and the input version does not) , then the correcting EQ is not used for the audio input. If they sound the same (at the same level), than the EQ is indeed switched between audio input and amp/speaker system as well.

Nice setup by the way. I understand now you do care about the mic and audio in and intended to use that in practice. Shame it has such basic , flawed signal routing.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:09 AM

hi JFP, I don't see why you're still interested in this DP when it has probably nothing you like! Is it that the other brands out there are worse? Or too expensive.
I just use mine for pleasure. Mysteriously the offending noise has diminished enough that I enjoy playing via onboard speakers as well as via headphones which on my unit (unlike cmin) do not produce the offending sound (not yet anyway). My fp 7f had 2 areas of the keyboard with noise and was produced on headphones too. I think it' a gamble buying the Rolands as far as noise is concerned and a travesty as far as the electronic routing and software is concerned. I'm not trying to dissuade you from this piano but if you're a demanding musician (which you give the impression) I would recommend another piano if there is one out there.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:14 AM

Hi all!

Here are some WAV recordings I made directly to USB stick demonstrating the FP-80. Yes, they are a bit quiet - just crank up your speakers.

Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee

Chromatic demonstration: From low to high. mf & mp
Chromatic demo

Here is that problematic F4 on my DP:
Concert Piano F4

Cheers
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.

I think xorbe has it right. Recording to a USB stick, where the piano is the host, is much simpler than sending audio over USB to the computer, where the piano is the slave (the computer is the host), and it would require writing a custom driver for Windows (and Mac), and some commitment to keeping those drivers functional through future Windows/Mac OS updates at least through the sales life of the piano. Doing this might also interfere with the ability of the piano to behave as a "class compliant" device which could create its own complications.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:31 AM

Scott: I meant it as a type of Sound-Interface to be able to record directly to a DAW over USB cable. A lot of synths and keyboards have that function.
Posted by: scorpio

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


Oh heck that sounds great!
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
hi JFP, I don't see why you're still interested in this DP when it has probably nothing you like! Is it that the other brands out there are worse? Or too expensive.


Nope - there are certainly things that I like about Roland (SN AP / connection between touch and sound) and in fact the alternatives in my list are less expensive. They are simply not available in my region, whereas the Roland I can pick up right away for an interesting price.

Also I'm just trying to determine how much this DP is different from my ES7 in terms of features (audio-input / signal routing / speakers) , touch and sound. I know how the PHA-III plays , until now I didn't know how the audio-input performed and if it is usable for instance to route your laptop output through the speakers to play a software instrument in a decent way. Since you and Cmin are the first ones who own the FP , I just fired away the questions I liked to see ticked off. Several of them are clear now:

1) There seems to be no structural factory fault that caused the 'distortion' you first mentioned in the thread. More a sound character thing, that you may or may not like
2) Speakers are OK and a step up from the FP7 - no only marketing talk, but a real improvement
3) Keybed is roughly the same as before in terms of response and mechanical sound.
4) SN Grand lacks the lid simulation but added sound board simulation and sounds good overall. Most probably the processing 'slot' for lid simulation had to be sacrificed for the sound board processing. Whatever...
5) Mic input / audio input is sort of half baked. But personally I don't care about the Mic input. Decent audio-In would be welcome..
6) SN EP's are nice (?) but lack editable parameters.

All in all it seems an attractive piano with good AP sound , with a few caveats if you're really interested in using the Mic input , effects and such. Don't know if anyone here would buy it for the arranger, or has tested it yet - personally I don't care - so I don't know if thats a good feature too. If you don't use or need the additional features, it's a bit expensive for pure piano practice and play , but other than that is looks good so far. Judging from the Cmin sound examples above it sounds good.

Note: the F4 "problem" is not so bad as I expected form your remarks. In solo notes it's there, but I guess in chords or playing, it's not so obvious , right ? The sustain phase sounds a bit like an old fashioned ugly and far too short looped sustain of a high note on an older rompler. "ponk , hijaaaaaa, ponk hijaaaaaaaa" ;-) Thanks for all your input Cmin and Free Thinker !!
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 10:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Scott: I meant it as a type of Sound-Interface to be able to record directly to a DAW over USB cable. A lot of synths and keyboards have that function.

But can they do this without installing custom drivers on your Mac or PC? You're talking about recording audio, not MIDI, right? The only board I have that does this is Yamaha, and it requires custom drivers (and the Yamaha is not class compliant).
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 10:56 AM

Yes, I'm talking about audio. Midi already passes through. Sure, you'd probably need a driver. Having been using both Mac and PC, most likely Mac wouldn't need a driver. But, what ever it is - they should've made it possible. I mean, if Midi already goes through then audio should have too.

aka this
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/23/13 05:06 PM

Very nice demo, thank you!:-)
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 03:44 AM

Thank you, my pleasure.
Posted by: AntonA

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 04:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


That sounds wonderful!

I don't recognize the reference "Gee Dee" - would you mind sharing what it is that you are playing there?

And thank you for the recordings. Made me go out to a local shop that had an FP-80 and listen to it there, too, and I have to say I am sold. Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 06:23 AM

Originally Posted By: AntonA
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee


That sounds wonderful!

I don't recognize the reference "Gee Dee" - would you mind sharing what it is that you are playing there?

And thank you for the recordings. Made me go out to a local shop that had an FP-80 and listen to it there, too, and I have to say I am sold. Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile


Thanks a lot. It's just a piece I wrote a while back. (I only play my own stuff) smile
You are making the right choice - you'll be very happy with the FP-80.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: AntonA
Have been looking into a DP that can be moved around for a little while and the FP-80 has finally put an end to that search. smile


Just out of curiosity, but have you been checking out some other stage models too , recently or in the past ? Like Yamaha's, Roland Fp7F, FP-50, Kawai ES7, Casio Px-series ?

If so , what made you choose the FP-80 over the others.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 07:14 PM

I was cruising around GC website because they are having 48 hour 12% off sale and saw this unfavorable review. I find it a bit unfair review considering it's more of a comparison than a review from an unsatisfied customer w/ big expectations.

For what it's worth... http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-FP-80-Digital-Piano-109123802-i3068702.gc#customer-reviews




Posted by: Glassy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 07:26 PM

For the record, that Guitar Center discount doesn't apply to Roland, according to their coupon exclusions page. Oh well.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/24/13 07:41 PM

Not entirely true. The guy at GC (in Boston) said they put almost every brand up there as an exclusion to basically cover their butt for liability from manufacturer. However, if you go in the store they will honor 12% on almost everything in stock in the store. I suggest you call GC to make sure they will honor their coupons/discounts before you buy.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 03:01 AM

Here is something interesting for those who complain about the the 'whining' sound. (Freethinker, JFP.....)

In the FP-80 manual (page 54), Troubleshooting:

"A "whining" noise is heard
If you hear this in headphones:
Some brilliant and sharply defined piano sounds contain significant high-frequency components, which may sound like a metallic resonance has been added. This is due to the faithful simulation of a piano's actual characteristics, and does not indicate a malfunction.

You can adjust this resonance by editing the following settings.
-Duplex Scale setting
-String Resonance setting
-Ambience Depth setting

If you don't hear this in headphones:
Some other reason may be responsible (e.g., resonance in the FP-80 itself). Please contact your dealer or Roland Service Center."

...So Roland is very well aware of the 'problem'. (Which it is not).
As I have stated before, I too got rid of some abnormalities using the Piano Designer.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 03:30 AM

Oh... and here is what Roland writes about the onboard "Acoustic Projection" speaker system:

Roland FP-80 Manual, page 26 (SMF and audio recording):

"....Thanks to its multiple number of speakers, each of which can be used to play a different portion of the overall sound, the FP-80 is capable of producing piano sounds that possess great depth and three-dimensional presence (Acoustic Projection).
When playing from the keyboard or from SMF data, the FP-80 applies an acoustic projection effect that makes the sound more natural. This effect is not used with audio recordings, as they are already recorded in stereo (using two channels)."

I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80. It does 'engulf' the player, simulating depth and width quite realistically. One can notice this 'effect' not only with the ambience, but also when adjusting the Cabinet Resonance.

Also, I use that microphone input (in order to use the onboard speakers and the harmony effect) going out of my mixer with a usable processed microphone signal.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 04:40 AM

Hi Cmin, Thanks. Glad to see someone has the manual. This is the one thing we have all been trying to get our hands on prior to purchase. Not sure why Roland has not posted it for download yet.

When you said "I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80." Do you mean that you did not care for it at first and it grew on you? Just looking for some further detail. That's a feature I am very interested in.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 04:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
When you said "I am really starting to like the speaker system on the FP-80." Do you mean that you did not care for it at first and it grew on you?


Hi Marko,
as always I'm a bit skeptical at first. No, I do really like it. Compared to the FP-7F (as I recall) it is louder, clearer and more spacious. It was a slight down turn for me on the FP-7F.
If you have the possibility, try it for yourself.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 05:09 AM

"This is due to the faithful simulation of a piano's actual characteristics, and does not indicate a malfunction."

Tried some acoustics lately and for instance on an upright Schimmel there was a metallic ring, almost artificial , on some mid high and high notes. Some more than others. The whole unit (metallic strings, soundboard , everything) resonates and creates overtones and sometimes these almost weird high pitched sounds. Pedaling had a great influence on the occurrence of those frequencies. All in all , I think when you start to look for certain characteristics you'll find them in almost any instrument . These SN pitched metallic frequencies many people complain about may be part or the original piano samples (and thus part of the source piano) or the processing or both (!) . But I wanted to emphasize now that I tried some 'real' piano's that it was possible to hear and reproduce some similar ringing sounds and pretty artificial sounding effects as well. Had been too long since I played and acoustic; perhaps we're so used to digitals that we forgot what broad sound spectrum an mechanical instrument can produce and blame the DP if it shows some of those unexpected frequency combinations as well. Only problem could be that a digital instrument will always exactly produce the same 'problematic' by-sounds with a certain playing style, whereas an acoustic is more organic , meaning never the exact (!) same sound twice. This repetition is what can/will become annoying.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 05:23 AM

@ JFP: I guess you're right. The Steinway and Bechstein I play has a lot more "impurities" than my FP-80. That's what makes it real and alive.

Yesterday I turned off all the possible SN parameters, just to see how it sounds and play around with it a bit. The sound was still quite usable (it sounded a little like my old DP), but somehow 'lifeless'.

I think a lot are bickering at a very high level about the sound and feeling. These are DP's - and I must say it sounds and feels better than a lot AP's out there. Sometimes maybe even too good. wink
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 10:59 AM

Another presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CvO5kVugbs
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 11:06 AM

Thanks, best presentation so far. I can almost get a feeling for the onboard speakers of FP-80 until I can try one for myself
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 11:12 AM

The question remains whether the fp 80 and other Rolands have a distortion problem in certain areas of the keyboard or is the distortion really some pleasant resonance. The answer is probably both. I personally have not played any demo Rolands without a recognizable distortion. And judging from the number of complaints on this forum and others I would caution potential purchasers to spend at least a 1/2 hour playing the middle three octaves (starting at Bb3),on the very piano they intend to purchase, listening carefully. And only purchase if you can live with the sound produced.
BTW I doubt that any concert pianist would put up with that tonal impurity whereas a rock pianist might, and also the tone-deaf. (not intended as derogatory)

Posted by: MarkF786

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 12:42 PM

free thinker,

I'm curious why you don't buy a different DP if the "distortion" bothers you? Have you found Kawai and Yamaha to have a superior sound?

BTW, I have heard the Roland HP digital pianos (with essentially same the SN sound engine) are popular amongst classical pianists for practicing, especially when living in the city, in small apartments, etc where a grand piano would be impractical.

Mark
Posted by: croberts

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 12:58 PM

I had a chance to try out the FP-80 yesterday, and to be honest the "distortion" wasn't that noticeable to me while playing. I was ever so slightly able to hear something 'metallic' or off a bit if I hammered away at one particular key.

I have been playing a Yamaha 155 for several years and I think I will go back to try the FP80 again today and maybe give it a shot, I certainly liked the SN sound, and the feel was a nice change from the very plastic feeling 155. That being said I have nothing but good things to say for the Yamaha, it has served me very well.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 01:35 PM

How does it hold up on the lower end? C2 down to C1 for example. That's where i figured it would distort if played at a fairly loud volume.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 02:17 PM

I'm happy with mine. No distortions. I can live with the small impurities, which as said before make it more realistic.
Posted by: rintincop

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 03:05 PM

I have both the old FP-4 piano and the FP-4F. The sample is clearer on the FP4. I prefer the FP-4, the FP-4F piano sound is muffled and the touch response is too jumpy and the action is too sluggish. I don't know how little of the problems will carry over into the FP-50.

I have witnessed a decline in quality from the FP-4 to the FP-4F ... I expect no improvement with the FP-50 since they are still stuck in the Super Natural samples with jumpy velocity scales and sluggish actions.
Posted by: Glassy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 05:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Not entirely true. The guy at GC (in Boston) said they put almost every brand up there as an exclusion to basically cover their butt for liability from manufacturer. However, if you go in the store they will honor 12% on almost everything in stock in the store. I suggest you call GC to make sure they will honor their coupons/discounts before you buy.


Marko, thank you for the tip.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 05:52 PM

Markf786: I like the SN over the competition but it has its problems which haven't been addressed by Roland. As I have repeated, the distortion has mysteriously diminished in my fp 80 however now I hear a muffled triad chord in its place. The individual notes sound good but played simultaneously they don't. A totally different distortion than the metallic sound. However it isn't a deal breaker.
I have a Young Chang baby grand but I enjoy playing the Roland at night with earphones. Sorry Mark, no comparison in sounds. If you gotta practice you gotta use something.
Posted by: Pati

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 06:59 PM

Does FP80 have PHA 111 keyboard or just similar action? COnfusing......
Posted by: croberts

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/25/13 11:18 PM

I went back today to sit down and really play the fp80, I put about 1 hour on it, and here are my thoughts. Keep in mind I'm coming from playing a Yamaha p155 quite a bit for the last 3-4 yrs but grew up on only acoustics.

The feel of the keys is remarkably better than my 155. The sound of the sn concert piano is terrific, all be it I think out of the box it might take a little tweaking for my preference. I was able to get much more expression with the fp80, but I guess this should be expected for a dp twice the price of the other.

Now the big question... The metallic distortion. I used headphones first and then without. I absolutely understand what people are talking about now. BUT, here is my take on it. It began to bug me but then started to understand that it certainly had to do with how hard the keys were struck (at least IMO). So I turned up the volume and reduced key pressure and was satisfied that I did not hear it all the time, but only when I was aggressive. I know this sounds crazy to most of you but I'm not convinced this is a "distortion" but more of a effect. Sort of like the pedal string resonance sound. Once I popped off the headphones the speakers were impressive. My one slight reservation was it sounded a bit muddy in the base, but I think I'm used to the bright Yamaha. One other note/question, I hated the pedal that I was using, although I'm not sure if it was the one that comes with it, any comments from current users? Can I use one of my p155 pedals that I had?

Needless to say I pulled the trigger, opted to wait a couple days for a in the box piano as only the floor model was left. Looking forward to really trying it out at home.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 12:11 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
now I hear a muffled triad chord in its place. The individual notes sound good but played simultaneously they don't.

This definitely happens on the RD-700NX with "Comp Piano" patch. Two keys unnaturally sound like three sometimes. Studio is clean of this. Occasionally I hear a tiny warble from Concert with 3 keys.

Originally Posted By: croberts
My one slight reservation was it sounded a bit muddy in the base, but I think I'm used to the bright Yamaha.

I concur, and I generally reach for the lowest EQ knob and dial in -3dB (well it's on a registration, actually.)
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 03:43 AM

Happy for you Croberts.
I doubt the P155 pedals work on the Roland. You might just want to try it out at the shop. Do your pedals support half pedaling? Do you have three pedals? It's probably worth for you investing a little more (about 150 euros) for the RPU-3 unit from Roland. It's rock solid and truly a pleasure to work with.

I got rid of the 'muddiness' by pulling out a bit the 400-500 Hz with the internal EQ. It worked fine for me.

xorbe: I was wondering what the Comp Piano actually is. It doesn't say anywhere. I have tried it and wasn't really impressed. What would 'Comp' stand for, Compressed, Computer, Composition...(Completely useless)???
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 04:01 AM

Maybe they meant Comb (comb filter effect) ; that would explain some...

Despite all the remarks about 'distortion' and metallic noise / ringing etc with the SN AP , I still thinks it sounds very good and musical and I rate the 'playability' very high. Perhaps it indeed needs some tweaking with EQ and lowering of some designer settings, but other than that it sounds mostly very pleasant to me compared to many other offerings that often sound much more static.

Just my personal opinion.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 05:43 AM

Yawhoooo!!! FP-80 support is now here!!!
Wow, look at all those effects in the machine in the Midi Implementation. Too bad they are not accessible from the piano itself.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 06:21 AM

Originally Posted By: croberts
Now the big question... The metallic distortion. I used headphones first and then without. I absolutely understand what people are talking about now. BUT, here is my take on it. It began to bug me but then started to understand that it certainly had to do with how hard the keys were struck (at least IMO). So I turned up the volume and reduced key pressure and was satisfied that I did not hear it all the time, but only when I was aggressive. I know this sounds crazy to most of you but I'm not convinced this is a "distortion" but more of a effect.


The samples simply become metallic and piercing too suddenly with increasing playing strengths. It's what I've been saying all along about Roland SN. There's moments in the demos already posted where it is very audible when players are giving it just a little bit more oomph in the midrange areas. The problem (and it IS a problem) is that it affects some notes more than others. Two adjacent notes can behave very differently and that is wrong. It would appear the only SN sound that doesn't do it is the Studio Grand on the RD-700NX. It was a total deal-breaker for me on FP-7F, RD-700GX(SN) and HP-307. It's a real shame because in other respects they have a hugely impressive technology on their hands with SN.
Posted by: MarkF786

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 08:31 AM

Has anyone tried both an HP-505 and FP-80? Does the HP-505's speakers sound noticeably better?

I'm pretty sure I want to buy a Roland DP and have tried the HP models. First I was leaning towards the HP-505, but it lacks some of the features found on the HP-507 and FP-80. So I've been weighing the options along with the cost difference. I'd love to get the HP-507, but it's hard to ignore that it's twice the price for better speakers and cabinet. So I'm wondering if the FP-80's speakers are close enough to the HP-505, in which case I could get all the additional features I want but still have decent speakers. I don't care about the cabinet too much.

FP-80 ~ $2000
- Cheaper
- More options to tweak sound than the HP-505

HP-505 ~ $3000
- Nicer cabinet than FP-80
- Better speakers than FP-80?

HP-507 ~ $4000
- More options to tweak sound than the HP-505
- Better speakers than HP-505
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: croberts
Now the big question... The metallic distortion. I used headphones first and then without. I absolutely understand what people are talking about now. BUT, here is my take on it. It began to bug me but then started to understand that it certainly had to do with how hard the keys were struck (at least IMO). So I turned up the volume and reduced key pressure and was satisfied that I did not hear it all the time, but only when I was aggressive. I know this sounds crazy to most of you but I'm not convinced this is a "distortion" but more of a effect.


The samples simply become metallic and piercing too suddenly with increasing playing strengths. It's what I've been saying all along about Roland SN. There's moments in the demos already posted where it is very audible when players are giving it just a little bit more oomph in the midrange areas. The problem (and it IS a problem) is that it affects some notes more than others. Two adjacent notes can behave very differently and that is wrong. It would appear the only SN sound that doesn't do it is the Studio Grand on the RD-700NX. It was a total deal-breaker for me on FP-7F, RD-700GX(SN) and HP-307. It's a real shame because in other respects they have a hugely impressive technology on their hands with SN.


Yep. The Ab a +5 above middle C and to a lesser extent, the A a half step up. I just played the 700NX the other day at GC again and when you accent/dig in, especially on single note jazz lines or even intervals of 6ths or 3rds with that Ab on top, it's clearly there.

Those that aren't hearing it, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you don't dig into the keys enough while your playing. Playing more of a flowy, ballady, legato, lyrical Classical, New Agey/Pop style, I could see how you possibly might not hear it.

I might have given the 700NX a try had it not been for those notes. It is without a doubt a thicker, more complex sound then the Yamahas..like a real piano. It has more balls in the lower register and is more attractive in certain contexts for solo playing.

But the bottom line for me is, I simply don't find the Roland pianos as "jazz friendly" as the Yamahas...specifically the CP5/1.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 09:37 AM

I didn't make any notes but isn't everybody complaining about different keys? I think I already saw completely different sets of keys listed as "problamatic" by different people, complaining about the same problem.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 10:52 AM

Yes I believe each piano is problematic in a different area. I have come to realize that most people who easily detect the sound have been using an AP. It is jarring to me when I am playing then inadvertantly hit the offending key. Ouch! Makes me want to stop. The silence from Roland is deafening
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
xorbe: I was wondering what the Comp Piano actually is. It doesn't say anywhere. I have tried it and wasn't really impressed. What would 'Comp' stand for, Compressed, Computer, Composition...(Completely useless)???

No idea, I had the same question! If it's "comping" perhaps it's an intended effect.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 12:15 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comping
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 01:43 PM

And yes comping just doesn't pertain to jazz. It's often referred to in RnB, funk, blues, gospel, rock and pop. It is a jazz based term though, and usually those who use that term in styles outside of jazz most often have some kind of jazz background or training at one time in their life.
Posted by: legatoboy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/26/13 11:04 PM

-------------------------------------------------------------
Rolands started developing the metallic twang effect problem after the RD-600, when they went up to the 700 series and SRX. That's also around the same time their actions got really good I thought, the original RD700 key balance was very good. People commented about the hollowness of the sample when they went from MKS-20 tech to JV, but JV was warm and never had a twang even if less dense that MK. I was watching a relatively recent live Procal Harum DVD with Gary Brooker using a RD600 (which I owned)and it still retained warmth ... it was the switch to SRX when it started. anybody else experience that... It was almost unbearable on the original VR760 piano unless you could keep the gain low in louder gigs that I wouldn't characterize as too loud either...

With the FP4/7 I thought things changed, the tone was fuller, richer like a Yamaha and full sampling made a big difference..and their actions just got better..and it behaved better level wise and was more 'locked down'.

I still like Yamahas though, Like where I truly think Ferris is at (truly), is that you can play them pretty robustly and their dynamics are always in the zone. Their 'locked down' bandwidth wise which is broader than Rolands I think, EQ better too. Have a lot of punch when kicked (and something else also?)...depends how you play. I find them very reliable DP's sonically.

Rolands SN has more veneer and a balanced playability with a very hot articulated type of sample... depends on how you play, what you like ... a more elegant axe.

Yamahas have a tendency when not amplified right to sound boxy, so there you go...

I always rationalized the R twang phenomenon as a synth. 101 problem. 'Possible' higher partial distortion, maybe in the sample and maybe not on sone high vel. layer samples (real pianos can have that metallic component at ff and above) coupled with a very hot keybend sensor scheme pushing the filter envelope too hot or at to fast a rate (velocity issue). They are getting a heck of a lot right though in the balancing act and it responds well with their keybeds but it's not completely balanced somewhere with some notes.

Posted by: EssBrace

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/27/13 08:21 AM

Yes it definitely depends how and what you are playing. Whilst it is a generalisation I think the Roland suits a softer, ballad, romantic or introspective style. Lower velocities just don't provoke the twanging at all. Then there's nothing to distract from the darkish, European tone, the more-or-less seamless velocity layers and of course the unlooped, fairly natural sounding decay.

Personally, now I'm exploring my Yamaha CP1 I'm finding that the Yamaha really allows you to explore chord voicing. You can pick out particular notes within a chord and accent them. The Roland is muddy by comparison. With all the "technical" limitations of the Yamaha I would still say that nothing else has such a combination of musicality and articulation. There's precision without being clinical or cold.

Horses for courses...
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/29/13 09:17 PM

Despite the distortion , in my opinion (I repeat) the SN sound is the best out there and the keyboard is excellent giving an overall very satisfying playing experience. To those who say the distortion is actually an 'effect' then why would it occur in different keys on on other pianos? And maybe the distortion is not as bad on some pianos. But as I said, after fooling around with the transpose function on my fp-80 the distortion was greatly reduced when transpose was returned to normal setting and it remains so. I would suggest this route for owners of fp-80 with strong distortion to see if it fixes the problem for them.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/30/13 07:59 AM

Sorry if I pick up an old topic of this thread, but reading the thread again I somehow got nervous that the quality difference of the keybeds of an HP in comparison to an FP could get lost:

Originally Posted By: CarloPiano
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Does anybody know the "Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement"?


According to Roland brochures, Ivory Feel-S (former known as PHA III Ivory Feel-S) is almost identical to PHA-III except for the fact Ivory Feel-S is built on a single plastic piece instead of two. I guess this has to do with the lack of the wooden imitation side PHA III has. HP-503 (Ivory Feel-S) and HP-505 (PHA III) feel different each other but IMHO it's not due to the action, which is almost identical, but due to amp+speakers. The final feedback the player receives depends on the sum of many factors, not only the action. As we usually see on Yamaha GH, just the same action may feel quite different on different instruments.
(...)



The Feel-G, Feel-S, PHA-II and PHA-III all feel different. You can test it easily in a direct comparison with the DPs being switched off. I once did it, and became convinced that in mentioned order they mature from wobbly to soundly stable. This mechancial felt difference then of course results in a correspondingly increasing better "final feedback the player receives". An enhanced speaker system does not solely cause this impression, but on its own improves again an all over impression.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/30/13 08:36 AM

Hi Marco,

I think that the difference in touch between Ivory-Feel S and PHA-III has as much to do with the cabinet it is build-in as with the keys themselves. Feel-S and PHA-III are structurally the same and I believe the difference is indeed only the two layered plastic that is use - just for the fake wooden view on the sides. It would be interesting to be able to test them in the same cabinet , however that is not possible. A stage model FP-80 and home model HP-507 have much structural difference in the hardware cabinet that supports the keybed. My impression is , with other brands as well , that this has an influence on how tight the keybed is and how it feels. More than IMHO the structural difference between PHA-III and PHA-III-S . Have you tried the PHA-III on an RD700NX / HP model , or both ? And the Ivory-S; FP-80 ?

For comparison try a Casio PX-150 and PX-850 side by side. Same keybed - different feel.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: The New Ones: FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/30/13 11:10 AM

Yes, I do believe that the cabinet and also the stand the unit is mounted on can have an influence. I in June most likely will have the chance to another time abroad get access to a wide variety of DPs in a huge store smile and I will check again...
... I am very curious how my impressions (on everything, not just the keybed) changed after a year.
Posted by: croberts

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 04/30/13 02:09 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
To those who say the distortion is actually an 'effect' then why would it occur in different keys on on other pianos?


This is true, but I wonder how much of this is perception vs actual and to what extent. I mean true lab testing would ultimately be the best way to confirm these things and eliminate all kinds of variables but at the end of the day you are happy. Hopefully I will be too, picking mine up later today so will have some time to play it tonight.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/02/13 05:06 AM

Good in store review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZp2sDDnMUw
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 05:24 AM

Just to inform you:

It is not possible to save the Piano Designer edits in the Registers. frown
That means once you edit and save your designed piano into memory, that's it. It is not possible to compare or play the different pianos you've edited. I was hoping on making different character style sounding pianos to be switched in the registry.

Also, the Piano Designer has always influence on all three first Pianos : Concert, Ballade and Bright. Meaning: any changes made will affect all of these.

Just wanted to share my discoveries...
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 05:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Just to inform you:

It is not possible to save the Piano Designer edits in the Registers. frown
That means once you edit and save your designed piano into memory, that's it. It is not possible to compare or play the different pianos you've edited. I was hoping on making different character style sounding pianos to be switched in the registry.

Also, the Piano Designer has always influence on all three first Pianos : Concert, Ballade and Bright. Meaning: any changes made will affect all of these.

Just wanted to share my discoveries...

Unfortunatly, you are completely right...
I made the same discovery today cry
while I wanted also to compare settings..
At the end, it does not disturb me so much as the piano design settings reflect the way I want the piano behaves and sound..whatever is the preset I am using.
(however, it would have been a nice "goodies" to tweak settings per type of music you play..)

I am loving more and more this DP as I can tweak it exactly as I want, and it responds perfectly to all my solicitations (much more than the NU1 which lacks a little of dynamism)
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 05:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Just to inform you:

It is not possible to save the Piano Designer edits in the Registers. frown
That means once you edit and save your designed piano into memory, that's it. It is not possible to compare or play the different pianos you've edited. I was hoping on making different character style sounding pianos to be switched in the registry.

Also, the Piano Designer has always influence on all three first Pianos : Concert, Ballade and Bright. Meaning: any changes made will affect all of these.

Just wanted to share my discoveries...


Weird. Strange they don't let you edit the designer settings for each preset and save it, but that the designer parameters are affecting ALL SN piano presets. Sort of a master setting , like a master EQ on the final output. Wonder what the reason is an if it can be "fixed" in a firmware update. Also wonder if this is also valid for the RD700NX (designer settings affects ALL AP SN sounds).
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 05:52 AM

Happy to hear it from someone else, Enzo. I was starting to doubt myself.
You are right, it is so much fun to play this instrument. And truly, I can live with the way it works - it just would have been nice.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 07:08 AM

I copy here my review from the parallel topic in order to get everything about these DP in on place...


Hello
I have just received the roland FP 80 today for replacing my Casio PX-350
I wanted another stage DP than the Casio fro serveral reasons:
I liked the Casio keybed, but
- I did not like the sound: the piano sound and the EP sounds as well.
- and I had big trouble in getting a correct dynamic response from this DP : it goes to "quickly" from inaudible to extremely loud sound..really really difficult to tame (and really not like a real piano, as I also take my lessons on real upright)
Using VST solved all these issues (letting the major advantage of the Casio : weight for gigging and keybed)
But as I wanted to have a Piano sound that I can tame and appreciate also when gigging, I have decided to go for the Roland (as I formerly owned an HP307)
And I can say that this DP is quite impressive
The Piano sound is really really good, and I also prefer the keybed which is firmer (and more like the upright I also play)
The EP sound and Organ sound are also really good (far better than the Casio)
the sound system are quite impressive as they give really good result with the internal speaker (I used to connect the Casio to external monitors as the internal speaker where quite bad..but here with the Roland, it is not mandatory)

I also own a Yamaha NU1, and I found the Roland a good companion to my NU1 as it is "different" but close in quality, but the NU1 keybed is better, but more difficult to play.
I use my NU1 to practice my classical works, and the Roland for Jazz, Pop, Rock music.
The only drawback I can see to the Roland is...the weight..
It is damned heavy compared to the casio...

If you have question or want more details for comparing these 3 DP I am talking about here, don't hesitate

Cheers
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 07:46 AM

Thanks, Enzo.
I linked it in the OP anyway.

To the FP-50 users:
It would be nice to hear your inputs!
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 08:12 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Cmin
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.

I think xorbe has it right. Recording to a USB stick, where the piano is the host, is much simpler than sending audio over USB to the computer, where the piano is the slave (the computer is the host), and it would require writing a custom driver for Windows (and Mac), and some commitment to keeping those drivers functional through future Windows/Mac OS updates at least through the sales life of the piano. Doing this might also interfere with the ability of the piano to behave as a "class compliant" device which could create its own complications.


Why is the USB port in the back? On my FP-7 it's in the front which makes much more sense (or does the FP-80 have front & back ports?).
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 08:38 AM

I've always been surprised at how many boards put their headphone jacks in the back, it's obviously the "wrong" place. It's more difficult to plug it in, you have to take more care to route the wire out of your way while playing. It's not like you're ever listening from that side of the board. I guess it's just sometimes cheaper to make it that way.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 08:44 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I've always been surprised at how many boards put their headphone jacks in the back, it's obviously the "wrong" place. It's more difficult to plug it in, you have to take more care to route the wire out of your way while playing. It's not like you're ever listening from that side of the board. I guess it's just sometimes cheaper to make it that way.

The headphone Jack is on the front, but the USB plug is on the back...
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
I've always been surprised at how many boards put their headphone jacks in the back, it's obviously the "wrong" place. It's more difficult to plug it in, you have to take more care to route the wire out of your way while playing. It's not like you're ever listening from that side of the board. I guess it's just sometimes cheaper to make it that way.

The headphone Jack is on the front, but the USB plug is on the back...


Annoying, but you can certainly buy a USB port extender cable, so it's not the end of the world.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:10 PM

Oups
I have just find another little issue (bug ??)
the Key Touch setting is not saved in memory and after having switched off-on the piano, you always get the default value frown
Again, it is not a big deal, but here, I think Roland will probably release a Patch Update
But I am not sure Patch can be applied to the Rolands DP.. anyone knows ?
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Oups
I have just find another little issue (bug ??)
the Key Touch setting is not saved in memory and after having switched off-on the piano, you always get the default value frown
Again, it is not a big deal, but here, I think Roland will probably release a Patch Update
But I am not sure Patch can be applied to the Rolands DP.. anyone knows ?


Firmware can always be updated - if that is what you mean.... Question is "if" and for how long a company wants to support it's product by FW updates with bug fixes and new features. Some brands are better at this (e.g. Kurzweil updates it's firmware for years) than others (Studiologic , Roland (?))
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:29 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Oups
I have just find another little issue (bug ??)
the Key Touch setting is not saved in memory and after having switched off-on the piano, you always get the default value frown
Again, it is not a big deal, but here, I think Roland will probably release a Patch Update
But I am not sure Patch can be applied to the Rolands DP.. anyone knows ?


Firmware can always be updated - if that is what you mean.... Question is "if" and for how long a company wants to support it's product by FW updates with bug fixes and new features. Some brands are better at this (e.g. Kurzweil updates it's firmware for years) than others (Studiologic , Roland (?))

Are you sure that Firmware can always be update by simple users ??
Companies my "block" this function and require a technician
I am saying that as I have not found any Firmware update for the FP-7F for example, on the Roland site...
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Morodiene

Why is the USB port in the back? On my FP-7 it's in the front which makes much more sense (or does the FP-80 have front & back ports?).


There are two ports on the back. One is for a USB stick and the other to a computer. On the stick you can save songs in WAV or SMF. To the computer it (only) sends MIDI.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:44 PM

Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Oups
I have just find another little issue (bug ??)
the Key Touch setting is not saved in memory and after having switched off-on the piano, you always get the default value frown
Again, it is not a big deal, but here, I think Roland will probably release a Patch Update
But I am not sure Patch can be applied to the Rolands DP.. anyone knows ?

You can save the touch in the registrations (for some strange reason).
Look in the manual on page 57 'Saved Settings' shows what is saved where.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Oups
I have just find another little issue (bug ??)
the Key Touch setting is not saved in memory and after having switched off-on the piano, you always get the default value frown
Again, it is not a big deal, but here, I think Roland will probably release a Patch Update
But I am not sure Patch can be applied to the Rolands DP.. anyone knows ?

You can save the touch in the registrations (for some strange reason).
Look in the manual on page 57 'Saved Settings' shows what is saved where.

Yep, you are right...
really strange behavior
They might have thought that Touch is related the type of instrument you play, while "Piano design" is for all... sick (I am not convinced by my arguments..)
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:50 PM

Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Are you sure that Firmware can always be update by simple users ??

No, not all keyboards are designed to be able to be updated by end users (or, possibly, at all). And of course, even if the capability is there, that doesn't mean it will ever be used. As has been mentioned, Roland is worse than average in providing updates to existing instruments. Regardless, I wouldn't suggest buying any keyboard that doesn't work in a way you find acceptable out of the box. There's never a guarantee it will ever be better.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 12:55 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
Are you sure that Firmware can always be update by simple users ??

Regardless, I wouldn't suggest buying any keyboard that doesn't work in a way you find acceptable out of the box. There's never a guarantee it will ever be better.

You are right, but I am talking here about little issue (if they can be called like that, as this behavior might be "strange", but is described in the manual...)
Don't misunderstand me, I really enjoy this DP grin
Posted by: legatoboy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 01:06 PM

As on my FP4 I believe the Key Touch is only saved in a Registration.
This if from the FP-80 manual below in regard to the parms. that are saved in a Registration:

Settings Saved in Registrations
Setting Explanation Page
– Selected tone p. 14
– Dual play on/off p. 14
– Tone 1/Tone 2 (Dual play) p. 14
– Split play on/off p. 15
– Right-hand tone/Left-hand tone (Split
play) p. 15
– Split point p. 15
– Transpose’s on or off, its value, and
Transpose mode p. 19
– Ambience on/off and depth p. 17

The Volume balance between the
keyboard performance and the
accompaniment
p. 8
– Rotary effect’s pulse speed p. 14
Modulation Speed Speed of sound modulation p. 14
Key Touch Key touch p. 18
Rhythm Rhythm settings p. 20
Edit Tone Wheel Settings for each tone wheel organ p. 32
Dual Balance Dual balance p. 45
Split Balance Split balance p. 45
Audio Transpose Audio transpose p. 25
Transpose Mode Transpose mode p. 44
Octave Shift Octave shift p. 45
Damper Pedal Part Setting for the damper pedal part p. 45
Center Pedal Part Setting for the center pedal part p. 46
Center Pedal Func Function of the center pedal p. 46
Left Pedal Part Setting for the left pedal p. 46
Left Pedal Func Function of the left pedal p. 46
MIDI Transmit Ch. MIDI transmi
Regist. Tx Ch.
Program change data p. 47
Regist. PC
Regist. Bank MSB
Regist. Bank LSB
Split On Chord
Recognize Split on chord recognize p. 45
Chord Prog. Root Chord progression root p. 45
Mic Ambience Mic ambience p. 35
– Harmony on/off setting p. 34
Harmony Type Harmony type p. 35
Harmony Level Harmony volume p. 34
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Originally Posted By: Morodiene

Why is the USB port in the back? On my FP-7 it's in the front which makes much more sense (or does the FP-80 have front & back ports?).


There are two ports on the back. One is for a USB stick and the other to a computer. On the stick you can save songs in WAV or SMF. To the computer it (only) sends MIDI.


Right, my complaint is that if you are using one for a usb stick, then you constantly have to reach around the back to take it in and out, whereas one on the front makes much more sense. My Fp-7 has the USB port in front, so I wonder why the FP-80 does not.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/08/13 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Originally Posted By: Morodiene

Why is the USB port in the back? On my FP-7 it's in the front which makes much more sense (or does the FP-80 have front & back ports?).


There are two ports on the back. One is for a USB stick and the other to a computer. On the stick you can save songs in WAV or SMF. To the computer it (only) sends MIDI.


Right, my complaint is that if you are using one for a usb stick, then you constantly have to reach around the back to take it in and out, whereas one on the front makes much more sense. My Fp-7 has the USB port in front, so I wonder why the FP-80 does not.


Because in the place where FP7F had USB port the FP 80 has speakers? Can't think of any other reason.
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/09/13 05:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Just to inform you:

It is not possible to save the Piano Designer edits in the Registers. frown
That means once you edit and save your designed piano into memory, that's it. It is not possible to compare or play the different pianos you've edited. I was hoping on making different character style sounding pianos to be switched in the registry.

Also, the Piano Designer has always influence on all three first Pianos : Concert, Ballade and Bright. Meaning: any changes made will affect all of these.

Just wanted to share my discoveries...


Accroding to the manual, Piano Designer settings cannot be stored in Registration but can be saved by Memory Backup - meaning that when you turn on the piano, your settings will be set, not the default values.
Posted by: MarkF786

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/09/13 10:04 AM

I like all external connectors on the back, so if I have something connected (a computer or external input) the cables aren't dangling out the front, getting in the way of playing and looking unsightly.

Just an alternate point of view.
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/09/13 10:22 AM

Originally Posted By: MarkF786
I like all external connectors on the back, so if I have something connected (a computer or external input) the cables aren't dangling out the front, getting in the way of playing and looking unsightly.

Just an alternate point of view.


Oh, I agree, except for the USB port where you are putting a stick in there to record and then taking that stick to your computer a lot (since the USB cable will only do MIDI, and not audio to). So this is all in response to that.

It makes sense that the addition of those other 2 speakers prevented them from continuing this design in the FP-80.

From what I can tell with the FP-80, it's not enough of an improvement to upgrade from the FP-7. Are there any posters here who did that and were happy with the changes?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/10/13 06:35 AM

Another tip:

To change the Leslie/Rotary effect from slow to fast and vice versa while playing an organ, press the organ button.

What's sad, it can not be assigned to a pedal.

Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/10/13 08:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin

What's sad, it can not be assigned to a pedal.



That would be toooo much 2013 ;-)

Afterthought:
Strange that starting from my early 90's instruments complex routings and control assignments we're always standard (Kurzweil , Korg) and then things started to fall apart with later products that became often less flexible and had less control features. I know it's a bit apple&pears, but hey....they could have done a better job living in the 21st century. Apart from the sound and touch , which are great.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/10/13 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Afterthought:
Strange that starting from my early 90's instruments complex routings and control assignments we're always standard (Kurzweil , Korg) and then things started to fall apart with later products that became often less flexible and had less control features.

On a related note, with many products, I've noticed there seems to be a cycle where, first they come out with the technology, then they spend some product cycles improving the technology, and after that they only seem concerned with finding ways to cheapen it. VCRs, for example. First they were okay and expensive, then they kept getting better and cheaper, and then finally they started getting worse and cheaper.
Posted by: dewster

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/10/13 11:03 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
On a related note, with many products, I've noticed there seems to be a cycle where, first they come out with the technology, then they spend some product cycles improving the technology, and after that they only seem concerned with finding ways to cheapen it. VCRs, for example. First they were okay and expensive, then they kept getting better and cheaper, and then finally they started getting worse and cheaper.

With DPs, I believe much of the degradation in the feature set is due to a fundamental shift in programming techniques. The earlier ones were probably hand coded in assembly by engineers, and they likely needed many of the features for testing. But bean counters are now watching SW development like a hawk, making a lot of free software actually better than the professionally dashed out variety.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 07:47 AM

FP80 and Air Recorder video demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxil3oSWCtU
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 08:41 AM

Seems to work fine, but...

Wouldn't you rather have Roland put time effort and money in an enhanced SN engine with 256 polyphony , instead of gimmicks like this ?

I'm probably too cynical...
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 09:45 AM

To what extent is the Air Recorder dealing with audio (wav &/or mp3) and to what extent is it dealing with midi? I couldn't quite work out what sort of files it was playing back, and how they were being modified by the demonstrator.

It looked very easy, but how on earth could you record a piece like that without taking into account and setting the time signature, metronome, the patch to track allocation, channels (if midi), levels, effects processing, eq and compression? And all the rest of the usual paraphernalia of the studio.....and that's if everything goes according to plan as per the publicity brochures, which it has never been known to have done - at least in my experience.

Looks too good to be real...I would be just getting round to the closing-down-the-troublesome-drivers in the o/s at that stage smile
Posted by: MagicK

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 09:54 AM

This didn't look like midi recording. It looked more like stream recording (mp3,wma or whatever apple is using). The playback of an itunes song was definately not midi.
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:00 AM

Mmm, Ok, so the question of how on earth you'd modify that music straight from a DP remains. Does the iphone intelligently separate all the tracks out, notate the music and match them up to the nearest patch in the FP-80 library?
Posted by: MagicK

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:18 AM

I think you're looking for too much magic. Think streaming mp3 via Wifi Ad-Hoc network.
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:28 AM

Yes, streaming mp3 wirelessly is one thing - not particularly remarkable. It's just that he said he was able to modify (ie overdub or re-record) using the FP80. That's the part I do not understand - especially if, as you suggest, this is not using midi!!
Posted by: MagicK

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:43 AM

I might be missing something but i see only that he is changing the key and the tempo.
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:45 AM

.....unless it just records you sticking your own contribution on top, and mixes it with the backing track as in karaoke. In which case, he should have said: 'Look, it's got a karaoke function'. But that would have looked kind of Casio wouldn't it?
Posted by: MagicK

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 11:02 AM

According to the description on roland.com it simply records and plays audio streams with the additional possibility to change the pitch and the speed which can be easily performed on audio data.
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 11:25 AM

Well then, I can't quite see the point of hooking that up to a keyboard. Why not just do the pitch & speed change inside the phone and plug it into computer monitor speakers?

...which is to ask: What does this do that you can't already do in any computer with a free version of Audacity in it?
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 12:24 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
Well then, I can't quite see the point of hooking that up to a keyboard. Why not just do the pitch & speed change inside the phone and plug it into computer monitor speakers?

...which is to ask: What does this do that you can't already do in any computer with a free version of Audacity in it?


A wise man once said "Wouldn't you rather have Roland put time effort and money in an enhanced SN engine with 256 polyphony , instead of gimmicks like this ? " -JFP
Posted by: toddy

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 12:54 PM

You are so right!
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
What does this do that you can't already do in any computer with a free version of Audacity in it?

Run on an iphone/iPad. Record wirelessly from your keyboard. Playback wirelessly into your keyboard (if your keyboard has internal speakers).
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/13/13 10:36 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Wouldn't you rather have Roland put time effort and money in an enhanced SN engine with 256 polyphony , instead of gimmicks like this ?

I don't know how many people will find this "gimmick" useful or not.

But the manufacturing cost of the app is zero, which is probably not true of whatever would have to be done to increase to 256 polyphony (i.e. you're comparing a free add-on to something that would raise the price of the piano). And honestly, I don't know how many people would really find 256-note polyphony useful enough to pay more for it, all else being equal.

I think Roland is just looking for some "gee whiz" stuff that salespeople can use on the showroom floor. Used effectively, an app like this might sell more DPs (possibly more than more polyphony would). I think that's really the point of the app, to help sell more units, which is, after all, their goal. It might work.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 04:10 AM

Yeah... and they should make a deal with Apple. Buy one FP-80, get one iPhone for free.

I'm not going to buy a iOS gadget just to get a 'digital' connection to my DAW. They should at least offer this gimmick for Android as well.
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 05:22 AM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
......
I think Roland is just looking for some "gee whiz" stuff that salespeople can use on the showroom floor. Used effectively, an app like this might sell more DPs (possibly more than more polyphony would). I think that's really the point of the app, to help sell more units, which is, after all, their goal. It might work.


So, it's a gimmick - to lure people into buying. Like having your car talk to you and do weather forecasts in 3D , but provide it with a crappy old engine.

By the way - I don't think developing iApps is cheap by default. There are several divisions involved at a company the size of Roland and programmers are well-payed people , probably making a lot of hours getting bug-free , working iApps out. So they could have spend that money on re-engineering the SN engine. Doesn't have to be revolutionary ; just add some more processing power and a few tweaks here and there. AND include the Studio Grand on the DP series - they have it in stock anyway + R&D costs on that sample set have for long been earned back. No reason, other than guys-in-suits who don't play reasoning , to leave that out.

Also - no Lesley on/off on foot pedal : why - is that really too much to ask ? Question of really thinking things through just a bit more. And this strange routing of effects, as I understood, where effects apply to both mic input AND the sounds you're playing and settings/routing can't be separated. Talking about settings; the rudimentary way changes are stored (see comments in this thread). And the list goes on.

The FP-80 is good because it has a good keybed, is well build and has good basic SN sounds. In programming, routing and additional gimmicking that could have been more wisely spend, the FP is ...well not as good as it could be , to put it nicely (ahum). And that is regrettable.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 06:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Same dude now with FP-50 demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpuG0OXTX8
Posted by: Marco M

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 07:01 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP

The FP-80 is good because it has a good keybed, is well build and has good basic SN sounds. In programming, routing and additional gimmicking that could have been more wisely spend, the FP is ...well not as good as it could be , to put it nicely (ahum). And that is regrettable.


That´s pretty much exactly the same as what I am used to say about my Roland console piano HP-505. The keybed, SN sound and speaker system together really make an amazing instrument! But don´t expect much more.

Not even the metronome is pragmatic to use when switching between normal piano playing and recording modes or staying in recording mode without saving each take.
Or to give a different bad example: for sure it´s nice to play a cathedral organ sound with much reverb and flat EQ and keybed dynamis switched off, while the SN piano sound lives best from subtle reverb and with headphones from flat EQ but with the speaker system from more reverb and EQed to the maximum rised high frequency (max "ambience" value) for circumventing the otherwise present muffled sound of the HPs, and of course the keybed dynamics on (i.e. on level "H1"). Everything set up correctly for the different situations, the HP does not have any muffled sound but sounds magnificent!
Can anybody give me a good reason why on the console style HP it is not possible to save a variation of these settings for having them easily on hand when switching a sound? Changing from piano to organ sound is just not possible without stopping your living room concert for a parameter reprogramming break! How much would it cost to provide me 6 programable memory presets for this, 3x for headphone settings and 3x for speaker system settings? The portable and stagepiano FPs 50 / 80 or the RDs 300 / 700 NX have such preset options, as I understand you. How is it possible that somebody decides that a console HP musician would have no need for this??? I guess it even cost(!) them effort to take this functionionality out of the HP, like it will cost them effort to deactivate certain functionality in the smaller HD models in comparison to the bigger HP models, but the marketing department seems to still see an advantage in such musician un-friendly moves. frown
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Marco M
The portable and stagepiano FPs 50 / 80 or the RDs 300 / 700 NX have such preset options, as I understand you.


In fact, some settings are "global" and for some reason (like unfortunate result of a coin flip) cannot be saved to registrations (=presets). This includes (but is not limiterd to) EQ or all Piano Designer settings.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 11:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
They should at least offer this gimmick for Android as well.

They might. If they were going to do one first and see how it goes, iOS probably makes more sense. Also, iOS is inherently able to do some music related things that Android does not (whether at all, or as easily, or universally) because Apple includes the low level infrastructure for it as part of the OS. Though whether this Roland app falls into this category, I don't know.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 11:29 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
By the way - I don't think developing iApps is cheap by default.
...
So they could have spend that money on re-engineering the SN engine.

I didn't say that developing apps is cheap. But once developed, the incremental manufacturing cost of supplying them is zero. It also costs money to develop better modeling algorithms and whatever else you may include in "re-engineering the SN engine" but unlike an app, there is more likely also an addition to the manufacturing cost for more processing power or whatever.

At any rate, the fact that they are paying programmers to develop iOS apps does not mean that they are not also paying programmers to continue to work on their other technologies, SuperNatural, etc. And odds are they are not the same programmers.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 12:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Hookxs
In fact, some settings are "global" and for some reason (like unfortunate result of a coin flip) cannot be saved to registrations (=presets). This includes (but is not limiterd to) EQ or all Piano Designer settings.

This even afflicts the flagship 700NX wrt compressor and sound focus, iirc.
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 11:22 PM

Just wondering if anybody with fp-80 had any luck playing mp3's on usb stick through their piano speakers? I followed manual instructions and can get as far as seeing the various folders displayed but cannot see individual songs. Notified Roland but no response for 3 days.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/14/13 11:46 PM

I expect you will need to convert the audio file to WAV format, as I don't believe the FP models can playback/record MP3.

You may be able to get away with simply changing the extension of the file from .mp3 to .wav, however make sure you turn the volume down, just in case the instrument attempts to playback the data as uncompressed audio.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: MagicK

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 03:04 AM

According to the manual that's true. Only midi and wav. But hey, why should someone support such an uncommon format. Kawai should better develop ios apps than integrating such useless features ;-)
Posted by: Cmin

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 03:04 AM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
Just wondering if anybody with fp-80 had any luck playing mp3's on usb stick through their piano speakers? I followed manual instructions and can get as far as seeing the various folders displayed but cannot see individual songs. Notified Roland but no response for 3 days.

Free Thinker: It is not possible to playback MP3s through the USB to the FP-80.
According to the manual only these formats can be played back:
Standard MIDI Files (Format 0, 1) -SMF
Roland original format (i-Format)
Audio Files (WAV format, 44.1 kHz, 16-bit linear)

Do not change .wav to .mp3 as James stated (sorry James). That will not work what so ever. Those are two completely different formats and changing the endings will just mess up those files and they will not work at all.

It is though, I believe, possible to play MP3s when hooked up wirelessly with an iPhone or iPad.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 03:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Do not change .wav to .mp3 as James stated (sorry James). That will not work what so ever. Those are two completely different formats and changing the endings will just mess up those files and they will not work at all.


I agree, it's unlikely to work, but is surely worth a try.

The RD-700NX supports MP3 playback (I believe it's currently the only Roland instrument that does), so it's possible the that functionality also exists in the FP models, but that the file browser is just hiding the .mp3 extesion.

As I say, it's unlikely, but renaming file extensions is rather more straightforward than converting a load of MP3s to WAV, so again, it's worth a try. wink

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: JFP

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 04:24 AM

Seemed the RD700NX had/had problems simultaneously playing back MP3 files and the performer playing the SN sounds. Could lead to cut off notes. Perhaps that's why they only support WAV for now, since it doesn't need decompression (using the CPU). It does lead to a higher data-stream however; obviously that's not a problem.

Quote MagicK: "Kawai should better develop ios apps than integrating such useless features ;-)"

Yeh ... and add a mic input with harmonizer crippled by half-baked effect routing...
Posted by: free thinker

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 12:06 PM

Just tried changing .mp3 to .wav on fp-80. The song comes up on the screen and looks like it's playing but no audio. After stopping, error #18 comes up. format un-supported. It was worth a try though.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 02:14 PM

*.wav is actually just a riff container with pcm data. I think there is a way to properly embed *.mp3 data into a wav riff file, but I don't know how. (And here it probably wouldn't anyways.)
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/15/13 05:14 PM

Indeed, worth a try.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/18/13 02:19 AM

On the FP-80 I've been playing a lot with the first three SN-pianos, Concert, Ballade, and Bright. I strongly believe that these three are different sample banks. I noticed impurities in different keys, key ranges in these. In concert it is the range of Eb1-F#1 and on the bright piano it's the Ab4. It is not bad, but they are different samples. Ballade seems quite clean but also very mellow/soft in sound.

As I say - it is not bad. Maybe it is a realistic string or cabinet resonance recording.
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/18/13 04:59 AM

I Have also played a lot with the FP 80
and the more I play, the more I love it.
you can tune the sound as you want and the piano dynamics / key connection to the sound, is incredibly good
I take a lot of pleasure playing with this piano.
Now I am more using my NU1 for "training" session, for improving my technics, But I am using the FP 80 for "pleasure" , this piano is perfect for my Jazz practice
As it is so easy to get the piano reacting as you want.

I have not noticed any "imperfect" sound, and really like all the SN piano sounds

For those who are asking about the hard bottom up of the keyed, I can say that I find the keybed really really good (quite light, but it is was I was looking for)
and I have no finger pain after 'very) long session.


By the way, I have a question for FP 80 owners: have you find the way for having 2 pianos sounds overlaying ? and not only a piano sound with an EP sound or string sound (which is clearly explained in the manual, but nothing about overlaying 2 piano sounds)


Cheers
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/18/13 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: enzo.sandrolini
I
By the way, I have a question for FP 80 owners: have you find the way for having 2 pianos sounds overlaying ? and not only a piano sound with an EP sound or string sound (which is clearly explained in the manual, but nothing about overlaying 2 piano sounds)


You can only select sounds from an other bank to layer. So the only way to double pianos is to select the second piano from the 'Other' Bank (for example #41). Yes, those are GM sounds, but not all that bad.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/19/13 11:22 PM

How does Ballade compare to Studio?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/21/13 06:41 AM

All right.... here is a brain teaser:

In the functions menu the Audio Transpose does not work at all.
Another strange feature is that the Mic Harmony affects the audio input as well - I'm sure that is a flaw.

Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/22/13 04:34 AM

Hi Cmin,

is there a bug report / feature request page somewhere on the Roland forum(s) and/ or corporate site ? One that does actually get through to the right people ? I suggest posting your findings there as well. If Roland doesn't hear from it , they will probably never fix or enhance things in a firmware update. I'm pretty sure no relevant Roland employee is reading this forum, so they won't be aware of flaws or things that can be done better. (If there is a a roland representative ; please reveal yourself ;-)

Just a suggestion. Mike and James are all eyes and ears and will pick up issues or request very fast when they are described on this or other fora, but for Roland I think some aggressive and properly directed action from the customers itself may be necessary to get things done...
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/22/13 03:59 PM

Hi JFP. It was hard enough finding a customer support email address on the Roland site. Yes, I have sent in a request a couple days ago an just now received an answer. They didn't quite get my problem though and gave me some bizarre answer. I will try it again.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/22/13 04:40 PM

Unfortunatley, after bringing up some issues on un-pragmatic behaviour of the HP, I also got from them a very short justification why things are implemented as they are, but no sign of really willing to improve something. frown
At least I got a description how to better use the HP according to the user operation workflow as they have it in mind. So, I received some 'workaround' instructions, but of course would prefere a real improvement...
Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/22/13 05:07 PM

"You're holding it wrong" (you dumb...).

Familiar ?
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/27/13 03:04 PM

The speakers on the FP-7f were driving me crazy. Thanks to this thread and reading about the improvement in the speaker system in its replacement, I just exchanged my FP-7F for a FP-80, just before my 30-day return period was up and in time for the Memorial Day Sale at Guitar Center and a 15% discount!

After reading most of this thread, I think the only thing I will really miss about the fp-7F is the "lid" feature, which was graded 1-6. Did each gradation refer to a different height of an actual open Grand?--I didn't know they made them that adjustable -- and are the grand sounds on the FP-80 defaulted now to those with the lid totally closed? Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?
Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/27/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
...Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?


Sorry, what do you mean by that ?

By the way, good question about the lid. Since it can't be adjusted anymore, is the sound setting always in what was previously known as 'closed' position ? Having the FP-80 next to the FP7f and do a 1:1 comparison over headphones might help to figure that out.

Hope you like the Fp-80. Most people didn't consider the improvements worth an upgrade from FP7F to Fp-80, but if the speakers we're your main concern, I can understand...
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/27/13 03:40 PM

Having a FP-80 I would say it is always open.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/27/13 03:49 PM

Is there a big difference between the eq control (brilliance/tone etc) which all Roland SN pianos have anyway, and the lid open/ close filters? To put it another way: is the lid open control complex modelling or simply a glorified tone control?
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/27/13 05:49 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP
[quote=Starr Keys]...Also, has anyone been able to import open grand samples into the FP-80?

Sorry, what do you mean by that ?


Hope you like the Fp-80. Most people didn't consider the improvements worth an upgrade from FP7F to Fp-80, but if the speakers we're your main concern, I can understand...


Not sure what the terminology would be since Roland uses modeling instead of samples, but I thought I read it was easier with the FP 80 to customize and bring in voices other than those already programmed into it.

Yes, I've got a very narrow space and not having a huge Monitor or having to attach computer speakers is important. But I think Toddy is right, the air recorder feature is a also a big plus, especially when you're taking classes.

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Having a FP-80 I would say it is always open


Thanks. That's great, but then what are people complaining about? It sounds a lot better that way.


Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/28/13 03:06 AM

It just would be a neat feature to play around with, but it is not necessary.
(if you want a "closed" effect put a blanket over the speakers) smile
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/28/13 12:11 PM

The default is not entirely open. My fav preset has it fully open. I don't know if it's just a glorified EQ setting or not.
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/28/13 12:37 PM

Quote:
The default is not entirely open. My fav preset has it fully open. I don't know if it's just a glorified EQ setting or not.


That's what I was afraid of. Yes, fully open was the best.
Posted by: rintincop

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/29/13 09:51 AM

Lid effect just diminished the presence and we don't need that. We need clarity of sound, not a muffling feature. The tone knob will basically achieve the same result.
What's really important is the action and how well it is designed to provide a stress free simulation of a good grand piano's action. How is the velocity curve? Does one have to get all the way down to the bottom of the key bed to press the sensors? On a real grand I can throw the hammers very well with only half way down keystrokes. I hate playing against springs and sensors!
Posted by: rintincop

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/29/13 09:54 AM

30 pages of posts here and almost nothing about the physical action, how stressful it is or isn't, and the dynamic response curve... sigh
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 05/29/13 03:00 PM

I would say the action is quite realistic due to the long pivot and the escapement. I personally glide and hover along the keys with ease without tiring out. The default value (50) for the key response IMHO is too light, so I usually set it a heavier. But like always it is a matter of taste.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 02:58 PM

Just wanted to inform you that Roland will bring out an update for the FP-80 soon. So I was told by support.
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 03:51 PM

My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands. This clicked because before I returned the fp-7f I worked on a song with runs and remembered thinking that all of a sudden it felt like my hand was too small for these runs, whereas I'd never had any trouble with them before. Does anyone know if they've changed the key design on the F-80? I know it's doubtful and for that reason I'm thinking of not even bothering to try it but getting a Kawai instead (went to a store and tried them out last weekend and the runs felt much less awkward.)
Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 05:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Just wanted to inform you that Roland will bring out an update for the FP-80 soon. So I was told by support.


Since you obviously did an inquiry at Roland , any thought on what might be included in the update ?
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it.

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: JFP

Since you obviously did an inquiry at Roland , any thought on what might be included in the update ?


Harmony effect on Audio In when a mic is also hooked up to mic input should be solved. Audio transpose also didn't work correctly.

I hope the rotary effect will be switchable with the pedal too, amongst other things.
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/04/13 08:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?


Thanks for your input, Morodiene. If I have the same 30 days to return I did on the fP-7f, maybe I will. The other thing I heard about the fp7f was that there was a hard bottoming out with the keys that made people's hands sore -- have you or your students complained of anything like this or know if it's been addressed in the FP-80?

Oh, BTW, I don't remember it being about the size of the keys, It had something to do with spacing between black and white and relationship and with a mechanism. I'll see if I can find the original post.
Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 03:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.

I agree that this is true with the the FP7F, compared to Kawai and Yamaha. The PHAIII keys have subtle differences in angles, edges, and size height and width of blacks (half millimetre) that I also struggled with. I posted this observation several times in the past. I only briefly tried an FP80 the other day and concluded it was the same.
Posted by: Morodiene

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 08:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
My Roland FP-80 is waiting for me to pick up at GC, but since I ordered it I read that the key design gemometry on the FP series is not good for small hands.
The spacing of the keys and the key size is normal for a piano. I have smallish hands and it's not a problem, it's also not been a problem for when my 5-7 year old students have played on it

Why not test it out at the store in comparison to other models?


Thanks for your input, Morodiene. If I have the same 30 days to return I did on the fP-7f, maybe I will. The other thing I heard about the fp7f was that there was a hard bottoming out with the keys that made people's hands sore -- have you or your students complained of anything like this or know if it's been addressed in the FP-80?

Oh, BTW, I don't remember it being about the size of the keys, It had something to do with spacing between black and white and relationship and with a mechanism. I'll see if I can find the original post.
Actually, no problems have arisen from that. Every piano, even acoustics, differ slightly in key size and spacing. So these things we have to adjust to when getting accustomed to a new piano. I do prefer a heavier touch - something I can really dig into. If you didn't like the FP-7F then I highly recommend you try out the FP-80 before taking it home. It always comes down to personal preference. As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer. smile
Posted by: rintincop

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 10:13 AM

I received the FP-50 2 days ago and the action is too much work to play. I will return it and be sticking with the FP-4 and it's lighter action.
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 11:49 AM

Quote:
I agree that this is true with the the FP7F, compared to Kawai and Yamaha. The PHAIII keys have subtle differences in angles, edges, and size height and width of blacks (half millimetre) that I also struggled with. I posted this observation several times in the past. I only briefly tried an FP80 the other day and concluded it was the same.


Thank you SpanishBuddha.

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer.


Ouch! Touché! But that doesn't explain the fact that I didn't feel discomfort with those runs before or found them less awkward on the ES7.

Posted by: spanishbuddha

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 03:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
As for it be bad for you, I'd have to say that any action could be bad for someone if they have technical issues in their playing. Apart from that, it is all what you prefer. smile

Ouch for me too. Even if it's true. Playing without tension needs practice in just that. I do have a teacher too these days.

But, I would argue, as a non-teacher and from plenty of life experience, that the older adult beginner needs an instrument that is gentle on the hands during the early years of learning, or else it becomes impossible. Children and younger people have more pliable joints, tendons, ligaments, and probably no conditions such as arthritis or rheumatism.
Posted by: Starr Keys

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: SpanishBuddha
Ouch for me too. Even if it's true. Playing without tension needs practice in just that. I do have a teacher too these days.


Believe it or not, I now have one too (starting last Saturday, so we'll have to see if it lasts:)) One w/ great credentials and a background in Taupman, which is recommended here as the best method for tendonitis and other repetitive stress related injuries.



Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 04:23 PM

Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/05/13 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.

I would welcome some more opinions and info on the FP-50, too. I'm beyond wanting to haul something the size and weight of the FP-80 to gigs, and so the 50 looks like an ideal compromise - apart from the stodgy action.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/11/13 07:27 AM

Just a quick update:

So it is not possible (and won't be) to separate the harmony effect from the audio-in while mic-in is plugged in, according to Roland. This has to do with the new acoustic projection speaker system. The audio bus is used to split the frequencies to the different speakers on the FP-80. It has something to do with the fact that the harmony effect and reverb are split to all 4 speakers for a spacious sound. Audio transpose also does not work when both inputs are used.

The following requests have been sent to the Roland product manager:
Rotary Effect switchable with pedals.
Save Piano Designer settings in Registry.
Save Key Touch in Memory.
Pedal Noise over MIDI. (No Pedal Noise when playing from sequencer.)
Pedal Noise is audible when Local OFF.
Audio over USB.

Dear reader, please don't get me wrong. The FP-80 is a wonderful instrument. The sounds and feeling are grand. The bugs described above are very intricate and the 'normal' user will never even notice these. I happen to use this instrument to its extremes and this is more of a wish list for the next update, if it should ever happen.

Cheerio,
Cmin
Posted by: sh1

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 04:14 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: Cmin
Are there any FP-50 users here?
What is your opinion? How happy are you with your instrument? It seems to be a great 'little brother'.

I would welcome some more opinions and info on the FP-50, too. I'm beyond wanting to haul something the size and weight of the FP-80 to gigs, and so the 50 looks like an ideal compromise - apart from the stodgy action.


Voxpops - I own an FP4-F and have come to get used to the action, although I could always see how some regarded it as 'sluggish'.

However I played an FP-50 instore (and have been back to try it a few more times) and must say the keybed seems improved to me. This despite the fact that the only apparent difference is the addition of escapement. It really seems to change things to me - perhaps more than it should given the subtle nature of the feature!

So much so I am now considering selling the FP4-F to upgrade. The other non-AP sounds seem more varied and plentiful too.

As a sidebar I also A/B'd it with an FP-80 and found myself actually preferring the 50 to the 80's lighter, faster feel.

As a caveat I would add I've found a lot of individual variation with the Ivory G feel keyboards I've played (including other FP4-F's), so I don't know if it was just the demo model I played of the 50 that so appealed!
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 10:13 AM

Thanks, sh1, that's useful feedback. Let us know if you go for the 50.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 03:31 PM

Originally Posted By: sh1
As a sidebar I also A/B'd it with an FP-80 and found myself actually preferring the 50 to the 80's lighter, faster feel.


Wait, doesn't the FP-80 have the same PHA3 action that the FP7F has? If so, I can't imagine you would want lighter or faster. PHA3 is on the light side and definitely on the fast side when compared with acoustics.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 03:56 PM

The Ivory-feel G action, contrary to some misconceptions, is neither lighter nor faster than PHAIII.
Posted by: Marco M

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 06:49 PM

Whenever I sensed a G action, it never felt high quality like a PHA-III as mounted to a HP-505. It even felt different from instrument to instrument it was mounted to, an it always felt wobbly. Nothing I could get warm with, not even as a raw beginner. My HP-505, having what Roland markets as PHA-III, feels very light and also mature, solid and reliable, attributes I couldn´t give the G action.
You may want to argue, that the keys physically are identical ones, and that it's only about the electronics in the more expensive Rolands to give more reliable feedback to the player, and therefore there would arise a difference in the feel. Who cares? G action does not feel as good as PHA-III and that's in my opinion the important thing. You now might want to argue that this feedback thing is only valid if playing the G or PHA-III with the build-in Roland SN piano sound. Of course, as long as the instrument is marketed as a Roland digital piano and not as a MIDI controller keyboard!
If somebody´s purchase decision is not limited by the price only, I then would always recommended to not go for G action and better seriously check if PHA-III, or the one on the Yamaha 440 or the one on a Kawai CA-65 are the better candidates for you.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 06:56 PM

Marco, it's not just to do with sound, the Ivory-feel G is constructed differently from PHAIII. It has a shallower depth (front to back), and therefore there is less distance from the visible back of keys to the pivot point, meaning that it becomes noticeably harder to play the further back your fingers are.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 07:26 PM

Yeah, I don't consider myself a Roland expert but just this week I spent some time in a Roland shop going back and forth between the FP7F (PHAIII) and RD300NX (Ivory-G). There's definitely a difference in the action that is noticeable with and without the sounds connected. I liked PHAIII more, although it does have a certain lack of stuff going on while the key is in motion. Not a big fan of the Ivory-G from what I've felt. Not horrible, but not impressive either.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/12/13 07:38 PM

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Yeah, I don't consider myself a Roland expert but just this week I spent some time in a Roland shop going back and forth between the FP7F (PHAIII) and RD300NX (Ivory-G). There's definitely a difference in the action that is noticeable with and without the sounds connected.

Yes, they are entirely different. The FP7F is a lighter, quicker action. The FP4F is sluggish. Also, it is difficult to do a thumbnail gliss on the 4F. If the 4F felt like the 7F, I'd have bought one. Couldn't deal with the travel weight of the 7F, though.
Posted by: croberts

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/14/13 01:26 PM

I have a stupid question and it could be my computer setup but I never had an issue with my Yamaha P155. So I just want to make some recordings from my FP80 to my laptop. I previously used Audacity without any issues, using the line out on the keyboard to mic in on my laptop and just record the sound and adjust the sound levels to suit.

On my FP80 it doesn't seem to work, I end up with a very distorted sound and no sustain between notes, it's as if there is a low filter on. So what is the secret I am missing? Whats the best way to easily make a recording? I'm not looking for studio quality, just better than using a camera to record the audio.

Thanks for any tips,

Chris
Posted by: Hookxs

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/14/13 03:10 PM

Record to USB flah drive as audio .wav file will surely be the best way.
Posted by: croberts

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/14/13 05:35 PM

Perfect I'll give it a shot, I knew there was a much easier way.

Thanks
Posted by: Iluvatar

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 06/18/13 05:03 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm going to buy a new digital piano.
I have visited two shops in London in last two weeks.
Fortunately there were all pianos I was interested in at that store.
First I tried Roland FP-50. It was pretty nice. Big improvement after Roland FP-4 that I owned few years ago. Sounds are good, piano edition is very nice and it really works (especially I love Damper Resonance feature). I will write few words about keyboard at the end (Ivory Feel-G).

Next one was FP-80. The same sounds, easier edition of features thanks to better display, much better speakers, but nothing special at all. I was testing those pianos generally with my headphones and some speakers in store.

I was always dreaming about RD700NX and I have to tell you that this one is amazing.
Piano sounds are much better than in FP50/80. Especially I love BrilliantGrand.
I was almost sure to choose FP-50, but when I have tried RD700NX... there is only one choice. It's much more money than I was going to spend, but it is really worth.
But I'm not going to write about RD700NX, it's not that topic.

Few words about key action, because that is important.
First I liked Ivory Feel-G on FP-50. I was playing on it over one hour. But when I tried Ivory Feel-S then I was almost unable to come back to FP-50.
Difference is very big. PHAIII is much faster, more comfortable, it just feels better.
Feel-G is just slow, a bit heavier.

I hope it will be useful.
Of course you have to always try by yourself, because everyone likes different things. Sounds are the matter of taste, key-action somehow too.

I visited another shop, opposite to the first one. I was testing there Nord Piano 2 and Kurzweil PC3K8 (salesman asked me to test them, I wasn't even planning to try those ones).
Nord Piano 2 was complete dissapointment. Keyaction was like in FP-4 or worse, piano sounds were terrible if you take price into consideration. I was trying all piano sounds, all settings were default, I tried to improve something but it was even worse. I don't know why does it cost so much money. Electric piano sounds were very good by the way.

I know that PC3K8 is different kind of equipment, but it was very good experience to try that one. Sounds in my humble opinion were better then in Nord Piano 2, but not as good as pianos on Rolands.
I'm not any Roland-maniac wink I spent many hours playing at those pianos and Rolands are the best for piano playing. And RD700NX.... ahh wink

The only disadvantage of RD700NX and FP-80 is weight. But I don't intend to travel with RD700NX, maybe 2-3 times per year.
I hope I will be able to purchase till the end of June smile
Posted by: free thinker

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/16/13 10:28 PM

Hi I'm new to mics. Does anyone know the best type of mic mostly for instruments but also for voice that can be used with the fp 80?
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/26/13 08:25 AM

A day passed with my FP-80. Just a story:

I've spent hours in a shop trying to compare dozens of keys in action. All of them - Kawai, Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Casio (Yes, these days Casio keys are absolutely comparable, do you believe it or not). After some blind and deaf tests (I mean I've tried them first without turning on) I definitely decided the winner - it was the PHA-III keybed on Roland HP-507 piano. But, there was no FP-80 in the music store, so I couldn't try it. As far as I needed a stage piano, I've been just reading reviews (thanks to all the people on this forum especially) and listening all the demos ever.

The other hours I have spent trying to reveal the big Roland's secret - what on earth is the difference between PHA-III in the upper RD model and Ivory Feel-S introduced in the FP-80/FP-7F?
There have been two opinions found here and on some other resources -
1. They are almost the Same apart from the 'S' which stands for Single or Solid plastic piece used for the keys production.
2. The -S is the cheaper Step back from the full version of PHA-III.
But I haven't found any reasons or explanations for the latter allegation. Official eulogistic descriptions look similar but with some dim tints.

The high knobs and lots of buttons all over of the RD desk wouldn't give me an ability to put my Kronos directly on the FP-80 body while on stage (with some additional back holders support). It is just much more convenient to handle both keyboards closer to each other- it looks like a double-level organ then so can be played simultaneously. Moreover, I'd like to have some backing comps for my home jazz exercises, and the programmable chords progression is a really nice feature BTW.
So,, considering all above I bought the FP-80 and forgot about the more expensive RD-700NX, which is the the only sincere stage piano, though...

...And some impressions:.

After touching the keys I immediately said - YES, the -S version IS different! It is not bad at all however and it IS as fast as the PHA-III, which is the main advantage of the PHA-III I think. But, due to the material on bottom or any other reason the feeling is different, it's better to accept it peacefully. The Roland's secret is still covered up deep inside.

Another PROS:
* The sound is good - didn't expect this! SuperNatural can be really more expressive in nuances than a sampled piano&EP sound. There are lots of settings and presets resonances of various sounds.
Think I will now be using both, the sampled piano from my Kronos and Roland SN, mixed in someway, depending on the music of course.
* Easy in interface. Get the same setup position where you left the last time. It is possible to save the current configuration and store up to 25 different configurations of custom sets. You can create your own grand.
* The triple pedal (bought separately) operates as a real one. Sostenuto function allows you to pinch certain notes. Damper works as gauge - can be smoothly stop the sound, making the half damping. The very old notes with low torque stop, the new music with strong momentum weakened - the behavior like a real work of physical strings.
* Metal body. This is of course a minus for the sound, but a plus for reliability. And considering that the built phones will never give you a normal sound, just connect it to any good external system, so the plus is much more important than the minus.

CONS found so far:
* Too bright LEDs. In a dark home room , they will make you blind. When you enter the settings, they are persistently flashing. This is the most annoying, because it is convenient to play even in the Setup position. It would be nice to have an option to disable these tedious LEDs but to have brighter titles for them. Maybe I'll become used to them later on just remembering their in place...
* Built-in sound system is certainly not capable of delivering decent sound, due to size limitations. Two additional speakers on the sides of the keyboard do not change the picture much better. I would say it should not have to show off and wasting time on the development and promotion of that Acoustic Projection (so proud, fingers fan - 4 speakers, what's new in them?), and it would be better instead made a volume option slider or on/off button for them.

Bottom line: Take a pair of good monitors and... No regret so far.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/26/13 10:57 AM

Petro, congrats on the purchase of your FP-80.

Just out of interest, where are you located, and which Kawai instruments were you able to try?

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/26/13 12:28 PM

Thank you James! Kawai employee, who is a fan of Nord Electro? ))) Good for you ))) I work in Europe and the shop where I was testing was in Germany.

The Kawai's I tested were MP10 and ES-7 of course. As I might see they represent the most actual mechanics - RH2 and RH3?
I liked them both BTW, moreover I can say they even felt closer to acoustic keys, but the PHA-III appeared a bit faster in one note shakes and more a... say viscous in specific jazz thirds-mordents and accents. That was the main point of testing.
Posted by: mdp92

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/26/13 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: free thinker
Hi I'm new to mics. Does anyone know the best type of mic mostly for instruments but also for voice that can be used with the fp 80?


For the FP-80 you'll need a dynamic mic, or a battery-powered condenser. You'll likely need a cable with an XLR connector for the mic and a 1/4" output for the keyboard. The Shure SM-58, and its more affordable versions from other makers, is very popular for live gigs. It works fine with vocals and instruments, as long as it's close to the sound source.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/26/13 06:49 PM

Thanks for the clarification Petro!

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/29/13 06:38 PM

Hi. I'm new here. I've been dp shopping for awhile now. Glad I found this site! Currently I'm playing an older yamaha, a dgx505. It was pretty good when I got it for where I was as a player. Now I'm wanting something better. I think I've got it narrowed down to between an fp80 and a kawaii es7. I'm in the states. Kraft music here has some good bundled packages and will even tweak their bundles depending on what you're looking for. Though I've plagued their sales guy with so many questions he may be getting a bit tired of me. Actually, I'm in California, in l.a. Not a lot of choice with piano stores. Sam ash, guitar center, and a couple of acoustic places that have a few digitals. No one has the fp80. One of the acoustic places says he'll be getting an es7 in the next few days, though. We'll see. Either of those of course will be a great step up from what I've got now. Still, I've got some questions.

I've read here about some sort of metallic, or a keening sound on rolands on some of the keys. Is this true for the fp80, then? Does roland consider it their defect, enough that they'll switch out a piano with that problem for a new one without? I got the feeling from one of the posts here that they're saying they did that on purpose to mimic harmonic overtones in acoustics though?

I was thinking I'd get studio monitors to hook up either the roland or the kawai to. But I live in a condo. Maybe with their on board speakers monitors aren't necessary. Would I notice much difference, do you think?

The es7 has about 30 sounds. The roland about 300. They're at the same price point. The es7 has better polyphony and a little quieter keyboard, plays mp3s. Kind of makes me wonder what gives. I mean I know they sample each note individually. But from the discussions I've seen here, their sound isn't that much noticeably better. ?

Then, kawaii has the mp6 with a boatload of sounds. But when they go to their mp10, a more expensive product, they have fewer sounds again. What's up with that?

Maybe I should have started another thread for this. But I figured there are already so many posts here about so many different aspects of the FPs, 12 pages! that tacking my questions on here might actually get me better air play.

Thanks all. :-)
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/29/13 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Anjru
The es7 has about 30 sounds. The roland about 300. They're at the same price point. The es7 has better polyphony and a little quieter keyboard, plays mp3s. Kind of makes me wonder what gives. I mean I know they sample each note individually. But from the discussions I've seen here, their sound isn't that much noticeably better. ?

Then, kawaii has the mp6 with a boatload of sounds. But when they go to their mp10, a more expensive product, they have fewer sounds again. What's up with that?

Wait until you compare the $2599 CP5 and the $4999 CP1 and see how many more sounds the CP5 has!

The more expensive DP usually has some extra parameters or extra features related to piano, and less focus on unrelated sounds. In the case of the CP1, it at least has an extra piano layer, support for 3 pedals, and an extra piano patch (not sure about parameters or other items).

Get your hands on them (FP80 key bed substitutes: FP7F or RD700NX). ES7 and FP80 are both fine boards, and it'll come down to your personal preferences.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/29/13 08:13 PM

Yes, to echo xorbe's sentiments, it's essential that you play these instruments for yourself, rather than relying too much on specification table comparisons.

As for digital piano dealers in LA, I would recommend Pierre's Fine Pianos - they should have a good selection of Kawai and Roland boards available to play-test.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/30/13 01:05 AM

Already been to Pierre's. he's the one supposedly getting an es7. He doesn't have any Roland's in stock. Doesn't really like carrying them as he says they don't sell well. Maybe because Both guitar center and Sam ash carry roland. Yes, it'd be nice to play them myself. But short if buying them and playing them for a few weeks before returning them, or flying where, to the other side of the country where they're in stock?, it ain't gonna happen. Already tried the 700nx. And a kawaii or two. Actions seem fine. Still concerned about the possible keening in the roland. Whether ill really benefit from studio monitors, ...
Posted by: Dave Ferris

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/30/13 01:32 AM

Pierre's a good friend and yes these days he's not so enamored with the Rolands. I wanted to try both the FP-80 & 50 but he won't be stocking them. Oh well, looks like I'll have to buy his rental Fazioli 278 he always has sitting in the store instead.. grin

Seriously though, I think he's the best source for anything "Kawai", especially electronic keyboards, in LA.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/30/13 05:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Anjru
Still concerned about the possible keening in the roland. Whether ill really benefit from studio monitors, ...
You will for sure. IMO Any monitor priced even $100 will do much better for ANY ear than ANY of the built-in speakers, Kawai, Roland or whatever.

So, when you choose in a store it's better to try keys being connected to the same or similar externals. As for the Roland people often compare built-in's on a FP-XX with RD700NX connected to pro Studio's and then decide they are much different in sound,... but they are not in fact.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/30/13 06:34 PM

I was thinking more of the gold encrusted bosendorfer.

Fp80, any more word on the keening problems in some Rolands?

The local guitar center's 700nx had the problem at Db above middle C. But the 300 right next to it had no such problem.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/31/13 02:37 PM

Aha! Some success. Pierre's got the es7 in today and its set up. So I can go try it. And as it turns out, roland is here in Los Angeles. So I can go in to their offices to try out the fp80. :-)
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/31/13 02:50 PM

I look forward to hearing your opinions on both models, Anjru.

As a side note, I'm finding the FP-50 to be a good all-rounder in the lower middleweight category. For those who worry about the SN metallic twang, yes it's there (particularly the Db an octave above middle-C), but only when keys are struck with considerable force. The overall tone and playability is as good as you're going to get in that price/weight class, IMO. As stated before, it could use better speakers, but when routed through my HS80Ms it sounds very good indeed. Compromises are there aplenty, but not, it seems, in the SN AP sound.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 07/31/13 05:23 PM

Anjru, good stuff!

Incidentally, the Kawai America offices are around 20 minutes away from Roland...

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/06/13 09:23 AM

For those who are interested Roland has posted some sound previews here.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/13/13 11:15 AM

Been a bit delayed in responding back after having tried both the es7 and the fp80. My overall is that I like both. The action is quieter on the roland, while the piano sound on the roland has the metallic overtone. I like that roland has many more sounds. But there are so many more it's overkill. Between the two, I'd probably go for the roland since I like the sounds and think I could get used to the overtones.

Now I'm wondering about kawai's mp6. More sounds, but not so many. Maybe no metallic overtones?, quieter action. No on board speakers. But since I'm planning on getting studio monitors anyway... So it looks like I'll need to schedule a visit to kawai's offices to test it out.

I almost feel that by the time I make up my mind there'll be another iteration of dps released. The fp just came out, the mp6 was a couple years ago...
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/13/13 11:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Anjru
The action is quieter on the roland


Are you sure? - the Roland is pretty noisy mechanically and makes a thump when it hits the key bed. I personally like the hard bottoming out - you know where you are with it - but it IS noisy.

Regarding the metallic overtones - yes, that's true, especially around A above middle C (c.440Hz). It only does this at FF levels, though and on the FP80 you can reduce that by lowering the duplex setting in 'piano designer'. In any case, I actually like the twangy sound for the most part. The overall harmonic additions are well modeled into the sound and are quite realistic (no looping effects - more of a prolonged shimmer).
Posted by: enzo.sandrolini

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/13/13 12:41 PM

About the noisy keybed of the roland,
what does anjru say do not surprise me
i formerly owned a HP307, and it was quite noisy with hard bottom out
with the FP80, I really have the impression that is completly different: no oisy at all, and no more the hard (or less) bottom out
But, I have not made a side by side comparison...
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/13/13 01:56 PM

Part of the noise depends on the action, but part of it is also related to the physical construction and weight of the board (whether it resonates, etc.). As a rule I consider Rolands louder (also it's a higher pitched thump) but I could imagine it going the other way for specific models.
Posted by: cabi

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/13/13 10:19 PM

I agree about metalic sound around A above middle C in the FP 80, but not with headphones.In this case the piano sound is wonderfull and with external speakers similar RD 700 NX . The FP 80 action is quieter, few heavier than Kawai Es7. Very good action.
Posted by: VPianoIsKing

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 12:14 AM

the fp80 is perhaps the best value of any piano today. it is not inferior to the 700-nx which is often assumed. even the speakers sound good which is a rarity.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 02:25 PM

Oops. Brain fart, pardon my French. I meant the keybed on the kawai is quieter. It's got a little more felt for cushioning is why. Are the overtones as apparent or even threre if the sound is through monitors instead of through the on board speakers? Anyone?
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 03:40 PM

Off Topic: how come Anjru is allowed to say 'fart' but I'm not allowed to say the opposite of heaven (it comes out as 'heck' here)? This is not fair.....plus the indiscriminate use of this word (FART in case anyone missed it the first or second time round) has completely spoiled my supper. Rank inconsideration!

There are some extraordinary prohibitions and caps on word usage these days online. Ironic really when you think about it, isn't it? There was an article in the Economist a few years ago now, where the author said that people had objected to the newspaper's use of words such as 'niggard' and 'spic & span'. Totally absurd.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: toddy
There was an article in the Economist a few years ago now, where the author said that people had objected to the newspaper's use of words such as 'niggard' and 'spic & span'. Totally absurd.


Niggardly has been a persistent problem in our language, causing lots of undue problems in recent years. It's a relatively rare word and people unfamiliar with it think it's related to the racial slur. It comes from a completely different root, actually.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 05:37 PM

Yes, that's right (niggardly is an old English word from Scandinavian, apparently) and it is understandable that it causes some embarrassment, I suppose.

Be that as it may, I strongly object to this general tendency - in the US & UK - not so much in Europe - to treat certain words as taboo as if the word itself is somehow evil. It isn't: people are - or rather, people can have malicious intentions or a heart full of hatred. Words are neutral, and banning them doesn't help anything. It just makes people angry and real racists and sexists stew dangerously in their own juice.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 05:39 PM

ps, I'm delighted to see we're allowed 'fart' without being censored.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 05:51 PM

Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 06:08 PM

I haven't heard any superfluous overtones (or even farts) after a couple of weeks of playing. Using Tannoy monitors mostly I can't even imagine what's it like.
And yes, the ES-7 keybed is softer if it is the right word, more cushioning indeed. But I can't say it's quieter, I think the loudness is the same, but with the higher frequency of the bump-tone.
I also think the PHA-III "hard bottom" feeling is related to that nice push-out you get while fast strong passages, so it couldn't be avoided. It can be felt like unnatural without sound on (or SuperNatural?))) but you'll forget of it as soon as you turn it on.
FP-80 is good really for me so far.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 06:18 PM

Sounds good, Petro. It's nice they've slightly reduced the noise of the PHAIII keyboard, while retaining the feel. I was in a music shop today, trying various dps - the Roland HP503 definitely had the best feeling keyboard as far as I'm concerned - Yamaha GH and Kawai (as well as the cheaper Yammy GHS and Roland G-Feel) are relatively gluey. So there we go - just confirms my prejudices when I make these trips to the shops! smile
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 07:21 PM

Maybe i was allowed to write brain fart Because right afterwards I said pardon my French?

Once a bot eliminated my cocktail and turned it into just tail. A little embarrassing for a first date request.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/14/13 08:12 PM

Gosh, yes! .....it ran like this, did it: 'My dearest Martina, you will be amazed with my homemade tail (which, though I say it myself, packs one helluva punch). But you will find all this out when I gladly demonstrate for you at the bar tonight'

Those bots have got a nerve.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/17/13 05:12 AM

Well... Finally I got the overtone too in my FP-80. All of a sudden on the middle C#... sounded as an obvious glitch. I think it happens if some mysterious parameters of SN synthesis just coincide in some special way.
No problem at all though - it would disappear as soon as I just change the settings from piano to others and then back.

I got a second chance to A/B the FP-80 and the ES-7 yesterday. I would call the action of ES-7 again as very good and quite close to acoustic. And FP-80 as very good and ... SPECIAL. It IS faster in passages and more responsive in nuances,.. so it suits me fine. Considering the difference in price (in Europe) I've been torturing myself in hesitations for possible outrageous expenses since I bought the FP-80...
Just happy now.

So, if you are in the torments of choice - never believe to anyone (me too) - try both actions yuorself for as long as possible before deciding, they are very different and both are worth to try. The right choice is really depending on your skill and needs.
Posted by: Todd Bellows

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/18/13 10:44 PM

Review of the Roland FP80.

"Nice for the price"

Tim has a grudge against Roland.

http://azpianonews.blogspot.ca/2013/08/r...west-price.html
Posted by: Tritium

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/18/13 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Todd Bellows
Review of the Roland FP80.

"Nice for the price"

Tim has a grudge against Roland.

http://azpianonews.blogspot.ca/2013/08/r...west-price.html


I am somewhat puzzled by your assertion that the website/owner you linked to has some type of grudge against Roland, given his favorable review, and these closing comments:

Quote:
If you want a fun, easy to use, good sounding, nice feeling digital piano with a variety of useable, high quality features in a well made compact cabinet at a reasonable price, I would definitely recommend the Roland FP80, which is offered in both a satin black and satin white finish.


Sorry, I just don't see it.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: Todd Bellows
Tim has a grudge against Roland.


May I ask why you feel that?

Having read Tim's review, it seems to be an honest account of a very good digital piano.

Cheers,
James
x

EDIT: Tritium beat me to it. wink
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 06:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Todd Bellows
Tim has a grudge against Roland.


May I ask why you feel that?

May I answer too? )))

I agree with Todd - the review is subjective and provocative. It has a direct link in its body to ES-7 review where we find what? " ES7 is a winner for its size, price range, and features..." etc etc...
I would've believed to Tim's honesty, the choice is subjective indeed, but that link betrayed his intrusive command "the best of the best is ES-7". And the link is placed in the beginning of the article, which is absolutely inexplicable for an independent author.

Rather tricky isn't it? These days one should read carefully the "independent reviews" as well, trying all the options himself ALWAYS whatever they push him to buy...
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 07:09 AM

This is, for Tim Praskins, an extremely favourable review for a Roland instrument. With the last generation of Roland pianos, he gave withering reviews. If I had taken much notice of them, I wouldn't even have tried Roland's stuff. It was a similar story with that London based bloke - UK Pianos: Rolands are overpriced and terribly noisy, and only ever just ok in terms of sound (except RD700NX). But he doesn't like Kawai either - only Classenti and Yamaha.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 07:23 AM

Well, we shouldn't blame them,.. moreover, having noticed the strange behavior of some reviewers we pushed to find out more by own experience and as a result to obtain the free choice in fine.
Posted by: toddy

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 09:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Petro
Well, we shouldn't blame them


Perhaps we shouldn't but we just have: 'subjective and provocative', you said, 'withering', I said. I don't see the problem in nailing your colours to the mast. These guys are canny operators.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 10:08 AM

Originally Posted By: toddy
These guys are canny operators.
)) I think they are not anymore.
I mean, being so obviously biased they do more of a hindrance than a help to their favorites and help us to understand the roots of that cunning business, so... forewarned is forearmed.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 10:48 AM

I read Tim Praskins review, and would say that it is one of the least biased and most objective reviews he has put out there, given that he usually tries to steer you toward the brands/models he can (presumably) sell and make the most profit from.

I totally agree with him about the issue with the accompaniments, which are generally superb, but which use the lowermost note you play to compute the bass note on the first beat (rather than analyzing the chord/inversion and providing an option for the system to select the root). Fortunately, I don't need accompaniments, but their overall sophistication surprised me.

The only phrase I would take issue with is this one: "I wish Roland had put their best PHAIII key action (which has some upgraded improvements) on the FP80" This strikes me as flannel, and indicates that the writer lacks any real knowledge in this area. What "upgraded improvements" are there in PHAIII? Has he swallowed the Roland marketing pill? Doesn't he know that Ivory-S is a version of PHAIII? Unfortunately, it's statements like this that are shot through Mr. Praskin's reviews and make me doubt his claim to be an "expert piano adviser." I would trust the opinions of many forum members before that of a salesman.

That aside, I would say that, if you're not interested in an analysis or comparison of the actual piano sounds and their technical implementation, the review is fair and balanced.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 12:08 PM

I agree, the actions' statements are sketchy and perfunctory. IMHO he also exaggerated the -G action disadvantages by that "it is sluggish & noisy and it's better to spend more money (or even less) on something that will be a better longer term investment"
Gosh...Longer term investments?

I haven't tried the FP-50' for long enough to observe it thoroughly, but it is anyway not worse than ... say PX-5S' + Roland' usual price&quality.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 12:19 PM

He makes it pretty clear that he like the ES7 over the FP80 if you read the comments below under the ES7 review:

-
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Petro
I agree, the actions' statements are sketchy and perfunctory. IMHO he also exaggerated the -G action disadvantages by that "it is sluggish & noisy and it's better to spend more money (or even less) on something that will be a better longer term investment"
Gosh...Longer term investments?

I haven't tried the FP-50' for long enough to observe it thoroughly, but it is anyway not worse than ... say PX-5S' + Roland' usual price&quality.

Yes, I was a little surprised that he thinks the G action is noisy; I don't think it's much worse or better than most DP actions in that respect, and it feels a little better cushioned than the FP-7F's action (I haven't played the 80). As for the sluggishness that some describe, the G action requires more effort to play than some actions, and doesn't feel quite as fluid as the action in the PX-5S, but it actually responds better/faster, IMO. It's not my favorite action, but it's not a bad compromise for a smaller, lighter chassis.

As for the "longer term investment", I didn't spot that first time around, but yes, if only! Lol!!! Actually, given the relative demand for the old FP-4 over the FP-7, I would say the reverse is true. The lightweight FP-4, with its compromised "alpha" action still commands a good price, whereas you can hardly give the FP-7 (with PHAII) away.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 12:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
He makes it pretty clear that he like the ES7 over the FP80 if you read the comments below under the ES7 review:


I think that's OK if it's in the comments section, and he's expressing an honest personal opinion. Everyone's bound to have a preference. You just need to be aware of the sales-driven bias that creeps into most of his reviews. As far as this one goes, it's really not too bad.
Posted by: Todd Bellows

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 01:42 PM

Praskins is not always so kind of competition to his favorite pets, Kawai and Casio. He trashed the Korg SP280 in a review in april.
Posted by: peterws

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 03:14 PM

I think folk were expecting more from Korg with the 280. . .
Posted by: Tritium

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Todd Bellows
Praskins is not always so kind of competition to his favorite pets, Kawai and Casio. He trashed the Korg SP280 in a review in april.


Todd, I am not saying that the website owner (Praskins?) doesn't have biases. I am just saying that the particular review that you selected does not support your claim of a negative bias against Roland. In fact, this specific review is quite positive of the Roland FP-80, and gives it a glowing recommendation.

Certainly, there may exist other reviews on his site in which a case might be made against Praskins's objectivity and impartiality...but this is not one of them.
Posted by: Enthusiast

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/19/13 06:21 PM

In England the Fp-80 is nearly £400 more expensive than the ES7. The Fp-50 costs about the same as the ES7. Yamaha P-155 also costs about the same as the ES7.

There all Japanese companies so not sure why it is that Kawai's prices over here are so much better than Roland and especially Yamaha compared to the US.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/20/13 04:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Tritium
I am not saying that the website owner (Praskins?) doesn't have biases.

Originally Posted By: Tritium
In fact, this specific review is quite positive of the Roland FP-80, and gives it a glowing recommendation.

This coincidence obviously means the fact FP-80 is just great )))
Really, whats bad in there against the ES-7? It is not easy to be biased here...

I spent lots of time hesitating between those two, and the difference in action weighed down the balance even with EU prices, but... I think for the price difference I would go for ES-7 if the action was the same with no look to SN and VH and more styles and whatever.
Posted by: Phlox

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/21/13 01:21 PM

After reading all 13 pages in this thread .... I'm getting a little curious for this 'metallic overtone'.

So is there an example of 'the roland metallic overtone' on youtube ??
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/25/13 04:25 PM

Good deal on a used if you live in California

http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Used-USED-ROLAND-FP80-109329159-i3329174.gc
Posted by: KeyboardAficionado

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/30/13 08:15 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops

...Actually, given the relative demand for the old FP-4 over the FP-7, I would say the reverse is true. The lightweight FP-4, with its compromised "alpha" action still commands a good price, whereas you can hardly give the FP-7 (with PHAII) away.

I love the FP-7's action and sound, so I couldn't just let you throw out this comment without responding. PHAII is somewhat similar to grands I've played, if not better! The speakers are quite good too, surprising in their bass response. And as far as I know, its resale value is holding up well, thank you.
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/30/13 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: KeyboardAficionado
Originally Posted By: voxpops

...Actually, given the relative demand for the old FP-4 over the FP-7, I would say the reverse is true. The lightweight FP-4, with its compromised "alpha" action still commands a good price, whereas you can hardly give the FP-7 (with PHAII) away.

I love the FP-7's action and sound, so I couldn't just let you throw out this comment without responding. PHAII is somewhat similar to grands I've played, if not better! The speakers are quite good too, surprising in their bass response. And as far as I know, its resale value is holding up well, thank you.

Darn, I thought I'd got away with it!

I, too, very much like the sounds of the FP-7/FP-4, and found the PHAIII action (pretty much the same as PHAII except for the extra sensor) to be a fine action. I was basing my comments on what I'd seen in terms of resale on Craigslist and eBay - however, I haven't been keeping a close watch, and it's perfectly possible that what I've seen is not a representative sample.
Posted by: anotherscott

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/30/13 09:08 PM

My take: FP7 feels a lot better than the FP4 (which still feels better than the FP4F)... but FP7 is way to heavy to gig with.
Posted by: KeyboardAficionado

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/31/13 12:28 PM

Originally Posted By: anotherscott
My take: FP7 feels a lot better than the FP4 (which still feels better than the FP4F)... but FP7 is way to heavy to gig with.

lol. I take it to a gig every now and then, and it's definitely a workout at over 50 lbs! That's one big reason I'm interested in the FP-50.
Posted by: KeyboardAficionado

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/31/13 12:32 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops

Darn, I thought I'd got away with it!

I, too, very much like the sounds of the FP-7/FP-4, and found the PHAIII action (pretty much the same as PHAII except for the extra sensor) to be a fine action. I was basing my comments on what I'd seen in terms of resale on Craigslist and eBay - however, I haven't been keeping a close watch, and it's perfectly possible that what I've seen is not a representative sample.

I won't hold it against you. wink
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/31/13 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: KeyboardAficionado
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
My take: FP7 feels a lot better than the FP4 (which still feels better than the FP4F)... but FP7 is way to heavy to gig with.

lol. I take it to a gig every now and then, and it's definitely a workout at over 50 lbs! That's one big reason I'm interested in the FP-50.

That, plus the wide range of useful functions/features, is why I think there is still a demand for the FP-4 - it's just so easy to tote.

The FP-50 is good, if not earth shattering. I haven't gigged mine yet, and that will be the acid test. I was expecting very little difference between the RD-64 and FP-50 in terms of basic sounds, and sold my original RD-64 to get the FP-50 (wanted a few more keys!). However, there is definitely more punch and sparkle to the RD, and so I ended up with both.
Posted by: KeyboardAficionado

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/31/13 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
That, plus the wide range of useful functions/features, is why I think there is still a demand for the FP-4 - it's just so easy to tote.

The FP-50 is good, if not earth shattering. I haven't gigged mine yet, and that will be the acid test. I was expecting very little difference between the RD-64 and FP-50 in terms of basic sounds, and sold my original RD-64 to get the FP-50 (wanted a few more keys!). However, there is definitely more punch and sparkle to the RD, and so I ended up with both.

You list the Nord Piano. What are your thoughts on it compared to the Rolands? I like the idea of downloading new piano sounds, but the cost is prohibitive, isn't it?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 08/31/13 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: KeyboardAficionado
You list the Nord Piano. What are your thoughts on it compared to the Rolands? I like the idea of downloading new piano sounds, but the cost is prohibitive, isn't it?


The Nord and the Rolands are just so totally different, it's actually quite difficult to draw comparisons - however, I'll try!

I just love the three newest Nord grand pianos (Yamaha Bright Grand, Fazioli and Bosendorfer). They do actually sound like real pianos. They all seem to have quite long attack samples, but the decay loop can be obvious, and a little unappealing, once it kicks in. When I first started using the Nord V5 pianos on an Electro 3, I was put off by the rather odd-sounding release samples. Later models of Nord instruments had the option to use "Long Release," which smoothed out the release, rather like worn dampers. However, on these latest samples, and using the Nord Piano (Mk1), I find the original release samples more authentic.

As many have attested, the Nord pianos sound quite raw (unprocessed), and if you're used to highly processed samples (such as Roland's APs) these sound almost stark. They have a little bit of a problem when you hit the top octave or so, in that they seem to thin out markedly. This is very noticeable when playing them live. They also require excellent amplification, and I've had to tweak quite a bit to get the right stage sound. At home, running them through Yamaha HS80Ms, they sound great, and they record beautifully.

The Nord's EPs are getting long in the tooth, and I think Korg and Yamaha (with their SCM EPs) have surpassed Nord. However, I still like the original Nord MkI and MkV EPs, and think the Wurlitzer is remarkable for such a small sample. The interface helps here, too, in that you can add effects and EQ immediately. I also like the "LIVE" function, which stores tweaks as you go.

The Fatar action on the NP is underwhelming. For a $3k board it stinks, to be quite honest. But you can get the job done with it. As for the free downloads, yes, that's a major feature of the Nord range, and with the NP2 you gain access to a vast library of sounds in addition to the pianos (as long as you're OK with a single layer and very limited filter control).

On the other hand, the Roland AP sound is rich, thick, dark and quite processed. It can also be a problem amplifying the Roland pianos in a band setting. The sound can be woolly/bassy and get lost among other instruments, but the smoothness of response make them delightful to play. The SN pianos seem to use the same base samples that have been around for some years, but they've been fattened up, and the SN unlooped decay sounds way more authentic than most of the competition's pianos. There is a slightly dull quality to the sound, that then becomes metallic at high velocities, but velocity layer switching is inaudible. Both of Roland's current actions are better, IMO, than the Nord's Fatar, although the Ivory-feel G can feel a little "ponderous" - not bad though for the size and weight of the G boards.

Roland's EPs have been questionable for some time, and although the FP-50/80 EPs are much better than before, they don't rank with the best. Panel controls are now pretty limited on the FP range, but you can menu-dive and do some fairly extensive tweaking of the APs. EPs, however, are WYSIWYG except for being able to alter the rate of modulation. They tout these EPs as being "SuperNATURAL based," but they don't have any SN-type control, and they seem to be watered down generally - at least in the FP-50.

The older FP4/7 have thinner and, arguably, easier to amplify sounds. They sound very similar to the later SN models, but have noticeable layer transitions and looping. They don't respond quite as smoothly. Some of the older EPs have a distinctive and rather attractive sound. For band work, these instruments still have a lot going for them.
Posted by: KeyboardAficionado

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/01/13 12:31 AM

Originally Posted By: voxpops
...

Thank you for a thoughtful, detailed response. I will refer back to it when I'm comparing the brands.

I had a general feeling that Nord doesn't place a priority on the action like Roland does, as you mentioned.

What really stinks in general about keyboards in a live band setting: they easily get drowned out by electric guitars and drums that go full-out an entire set. I just read a quote from a player the other day (forgot the name) who sadly mentioned even the pro's tend to go constant full volume and there are no dynamics anymore. Bad news, especially for keys.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 05:23 AM

I was wondering if anybody here has been using the FP-80 (or other modern Roland DPs) with a DAW. It seems that when I play the internal sounds through my computer sequencer I do not get the pedal noise and other Super Natural effects to sound. Also the ambience is different than when I play the sound on the keyboard itself. The effect is then always on for the corresponding sound I choose from the sequencer by default. I would like to choose the effects myself or use the settings I have chosen in the keyboard.

I also find it strange that according to the Midi implementation there are about 80 different effects in the keyboard already, but one can not reach these from the front panel of the FP-80.

Has anyone been using their DP with a DAW and been able to get the pedal noise and etc. to work?
thanx

edit: To make things worse: The Tone List is not correct. Some sounds do not correspond to the parameters given frown
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 05:49 AM

I recall dewster investigated something similar (playing back MIDI but still hearing the SuperNatural resonances etc.) on his wife's RD-700NX a little while ago - it might be worth dropping him a PM, assuming he doesn't reply here first.

James
x
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 03:09 PM

@Cmin - I had the same discoveries with my 700NX also as you, but I did not dig much deeper to investigate. A brief poster came through with the same findings, and he couldn't get any info out of Roland directly either. I was surprised that there are more reverbs than button accessible, yes, what a waste.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 06:13 PM

Thanx guys. I'll try to get it working and post it here as soon as I find out how it works. I'm not a rookie with MIDI, but this is beyond me.
Sure is strange that Roland distance themselves from the users. It's almost impossible to find an email contact on their site. And the promised update is still not out.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 07:11 PM

Promised update?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 07:18 PM

In my experience, Roland rarely delivers updates. I've known a representative suggest that Roland, Japan, is aware of user requests and is working on an update, but that would not be regarded as a "promise," and is absolutely no guarantee that it will occur.

I would always suggest that no one buy a board - and particularly a Roland - unless they are happy with what it does out of the box.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 07:22 PM

Don't bring me down. This machine is full of bugs. AND they promised it!

Yeah, they promised it me back on page 11. That's quite a while back.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 07:31 PM

I'm unable to find the post you're referring to Cmin.

Have you tried reporting the problems you are experiencing to Roland directly?

James
x
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/02/13 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Don't bring me down. This machine is full of bugs. AND they promised it!

Yeah, they promised it me back on page 11. That's quite a while back.

Good luck!

Everyone who bought a VR-09 (great little board, but equally full of bugs and questionable programming) has been clamoring for an OS fix, and, IIRC, Roland at one time said that they were "99%" there - a figure that has since evaporated from the web. As the months go by, it is increasingly doubtful whether the engineers have any intention of fixing anything. Basically, once the board is out there, unless people stop buying it because of a known issue, you're on your own.
Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 02:52 AM

Is that equal for all manufacturers , or mostly a problem with Roland gear. Pure from my own experience and 'feeling' I would rate the response to bug reports and user requests from good to worse:

1) Kurzweil (churning out updates regularly even for old boards)
2) Casio (very responsive , but verdict is still out a bit; PX5 has some details to be worked out still, so I hope they indeed come up with another update)
3) Kawai
4) Korg
5) Roland and Yamaha ; they seem the most arrogant of the flock. Perhaps to big to care at all (Yamaha) , or living on another planet (Roland).

Edit: forgot Clavia , but got no experience with them. Anyone would care to give them a rating ? Brands like Studiologic dangle at the bottom of every list; they seem to be unaware there is a world out there at all and customers who you could communicate with.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 05:35 AM

Having had the FP-80 now for some months, practicing quite often and playing a few gigs, here are my negative observations:

Bug list:

1. EQ and ambience on by default when turning on. Can not be saved in memory.
2. EQ stays on in Registration when changing from Preset with EQ, even though Registration was saved without.
3. Mic Harmony stays on level 8 (default) when switching from Preset to Registration, even though it was saved at a different level and shows a different level in Registration.
4. Pedal noise is audible when Local is set to off when last sound was set to a piano tone.
5. Mic Harmony effect affects the Line In as well.
6. Rotary effect on organ tones is not switchable with pedal.
7. Piano Designer parameters can not be saved in Registry.
8. When returning to Presets from Registration, Key Touch and Mic Harmony Level keep settings from the Registry.
9. EQ affects internal sound engine, microphone input and line in.
10. Key Touch can not be saved in memory.

These things might still work but I'd have to dig deeper into the realms of the world of Midi. They are not simple adjustments that are reachable via simple program changes:
No pedal noise and sound designer effect when receiving Midi from DAW.
Ambience is on by default when receiving Midi from DAW. Must then be switched off on front panel.
Ambience is the only effect on all sounds when receiving Midi from DAW.

Hardware:
No Audio over USB.
Mic In is not symmetrical.

The positive:
Great keyboard feeling. Texture and weighting.
Good piano, e-piano, and organ sounds.
Good (enough) speaker system.
Good screen size.
Not too heavy for transport.
Good chassis.
Simple recording possibilities directly to USB stick.

Personally, I could live without all the instrument backing and the rest of the 300+ sounds. It makes it somewhat not serious.

If you have noticed any other bugs or faults please post them and I will be glad to add them to the list. The same with positive input.
I strongly hope that Roland will read these posts and maybe bring out some changes. After all, when googling the FP-80, Piano World is in the top ten wink
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 10:19 AM

With regard to EQ, unfortunately the inability to save to a registration is a "feature" rather than a bug, as, according to the manual, EQ is only savable globally. That's a shame, as its most obvious advantage (to me) is to allow certain sounds/registrations (such as EPs) to have an individual EQ that makes them "zing" a little more, for example.

Roland is extremely careful, and more so as time goes on, not to affect sales of their dedicated stage products by putting pro features into their slabs. Since the FP-4/7, such features have been whittled away to the point that, unless you just want a straight piano on stage, the FP's are much more for home use (with a bunch of additional, but less than professional, toys).
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 02:51 PM

Wonder why the FP's are in their stage piano section then.
Posted by: xorbe

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 03:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Wonder why the FP's are in their stage piano section then.

That's where marketing told engineering to stick it.
Posted by: Petro

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Wonder why the FP's are in their stage piano section then.
Why not? And where else if not in stage piano'? I use it as the stage piano actually. It is more convenient to use with another keys atop (I use Kronos) than RD since it is flat, no those knobs all around the desk.

BTW, what FP stands for? RD probably derived from RoaD?, HP - Home Piano, FP - Functional Piano? Funny? Feeling? Friendly? Foot? F....?
Posted by: JFP

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/03/13 04:57 PM

Fake ?
Posted by: Marco M

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/04/13 03:24 AM

The limited possibilities to save instrument settings with a particular sound in a combined way is a big drawback all Rolands suffer: same on my newest generation HP instrument. This drawback really is THE big limit the Rolands have, besides the randomly stumbling volume and timbre distribution along the keys hampering an even sound experience. While the latter is only a subtle to hear bug, the former is dominantly annoying. I can find for any sound pleasing settings, but they become lost each time you change to a different sound. It's pathetic, because you can only change to a different sound but never become instantly happy with it, unless you don´t bother about a full minute of pressing function key sequences according to your paper written notes upon changing a sound.
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/04/13 03:36 AM

Marco, is there no 'Registration' or 'User Memory' feature you can use to store your favourite settings?

Cheers,
James
x
Posted by: Marco M

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/04/13 04:21 AM

Unfortunatley not for individual sounds, but only 1 general store for the allover instrument.
Imagine this: Grand piano setting having key dynamics set to heavy, and therefore brilliance to high, additionally having reverb set to a little value. Church organ setting having no key dynamics (only on/off) with neutral brilliance and reverb to maximum. Not to mention all the other possibilities the function settings provide, like the resonance settings which can impact the organ sound.
I can save exactly one set of settings in the general store called "BACKUP", which is then applied upon powering up the instrument. That´s it.
Posted by: Redbaron

Re: The New Ones: Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/04/13 01:45 PM

Greetings everyone! I bought a FP-50. I am a kind of one-man-band (Sing, play bass, harmonies, arrangements and solos, by myself). This piano has very good sounds and rhythms that are sufficient for almost all situations. However disappointed me with something. I can't use the split and the dual function at the same time, and I need that so much! I don't know why Roland engineers didn't think of it. It is a pity! To solve some sound issues, change the EQ and ambience factory settings. Buy a small subwoffer, greatly improves the sound. And yes, it´s a real friendly and portable stage piano.
Posted by: moleskincrusher

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/05/13 10:01 AM


What really stinks in general about keyboards in a live band setting: they easily get drowned out by electric guitars and drums that go full-out an entire set. I just read a quote from a player the other day (forgot the name) who sadly mentioned even the pro's tend to go constant full volume and there are no dynamics anymore. Bad news, especially for keys.[/quote]
************************************
PERENNIAL PROBLEM; YOU GOTTA FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.

SCHLEP YOUR OWN P.A. TWO OR THREE POWERED SPKRS ON STANDS WILL GET YOU COMPLAINTS OF "TOO MUCH KEYS" FROM OTHER BAND MEMBERS WHICH WILL GIVE YOU MUCH PAYBACK-TYPE PLEASURE.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/05/13 10:58 AM

Originally Posted By: moleskincrusher

What really stinks in general about keyboards in a live band setting: they easily get drowned out by electric guitars and drums that go full-out an entire set. I just read a quote from a player the other day (forgot the name) who sadly mentioned even the pro's tend to go constant full volume and there are no dynamics anymore. Bad news, especially for keys.
************************************
PERENNIAL PROBLEM; YOU GOTTA FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE.

SCHLEP YOUR OWN P.A. TWO OR THREE POWERED SPKRS ON STANDS WILL GET YOU COMPLAINTS OF "TOO MUCH KEYS" FROM OTHER BAND MEMBERS WHICH WILL GIVE YOU MUCH PAYBACK-TYPE PLEASURE.


OT: I find that onboard speakers are almost useless in a live band setting. I use a Traynor K4 mostly when playing with band. It's a great amp, yet it still all depends on environment of show i.e. room size, outdoors etc. Even at that, I can get it to sound very good when we set up just before show, but then often need to adjust again once the room is filled with people. Keep in mind, playing live in band has been a new experience for me this year. Still so much to learn.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/21/13 03:17 PM

Darn. Take two. I was writing a post here and it some how got erased. And I was almost done, too. Oh well.

So last month and the month before I was writing here how I'm piano shopping. I had it narrowed down, I thought, to Roland's fp80 and kawai's es7 but based solely on reviews, since none of the stores near me carry either. Then I found out roland corporate is near me so I went there and played the fp80. And an acoustic piano store got in the es7. Although its keybed seems marginally nicer, it's only got a tenth of the sounds. But I was wowed by neither. I like more Roland's 700 nx although I'd have to get either an amp or monitors since its got no on board speakers. So I thought I'd try kawai's mp6, too. But again, no stores near me carry it. Kawai corporate is nearby but they're not set up for people to come in. I've talked to Alan Palmer there who though happy to have me come by doesnt have decent monitors nor does he really have the time for me.

I'm now wondering how necessary monitors are with an fp80, for instance. I mean I k ow the sound will be improved. By based on he size of my condo, I wonder if I'll feel like too much of a gear head with monitors and stands. Maybe a good amp would be a lot less clutter and give me more bang for my buck in case I ever go gigging. But I don't know how the sound compares? S that's my first question.

Second question is inre namm. Just a few mons away. Maybe there'll be some new product there that ill love. Never been to namm. I'm assuming that I'll get to try out the different instruments there. But I wonder if some of what they'll be showing is concept gear that never comes to market. And also if the stuff intended for market maybe doesn't see the light of day until mons after namm has come and gone?
Posted by: voxpops

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/21/13 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Anjru
Never been to namm. I'm assuming that I'll get to try out the different instruments there. But I wonder if some of what they'll be showing is concept gear that never comes to market. And also if the stuff intended for market maybe doesn't see the light of day until mons after namm has come and gone?

NAMM is for industry attendees only (or those with a connection to someone who can get tickets).

There are a few esoteric boards that never seem to get much beyond prototype, but they are usually from smaller manufacturers. Most of what is shown by Roland, Yamaha, Kawai and Casio becomes available within a few months of presentation at NAMM.

It is expected that there will be new offerings from Roland and Kawai by the time NAMM 2014 is staged. Yamaha and Casio have already released some new boards, but it's possible there may be others.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/22/13 08:27 AM

Anyone here get me a ticket? :-)
Posted by: Charles Cohen

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/22/13 10:18 PM

Quote:

I'm now wondering how necessary monitors are with an fp80, for instance. I mean I k ow the sound will be improved. By based on he size of my condo, I wonder if I'll feel like too much of a gear head with monitors and stands. Maybe a good amp would be a lot less clutter and give me more bang for my buck in case I ever go gigging. But I don't know how the sound compares? S that's my first question.


FWIW --

Look at the power of the onboard amps, and the size of the loudspeakers, on the FP-80.

Then look at the power of the amp in a decent powered PA box (an EV ZX-A1, for example), or a pair of 8" monitor loudspeakers (e.g., a Rokit 8) -- and at _their_ loudspeakers.

Roughly speaking, that will give you an idea of "how the sound compares".

. Charles

PS -- this is, of course, an over-simplification. But one of the things that's sacrificed in building a DP to a given size, weight, and price, is the quality of its onboard amps and speakers. The Yamaha Avant Grand may be an exception -- it trades-off size (it's big), cost (it's expensive), and weight (it's heavy) for real amps, and real speakers, and a real acoustic-piano keyboard mechanism. Or so I understand, never having played one.
Posted by: Anjru

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 09/23/13 08:45 AM

Thanks Charles. I'm also a cohen. And coincidentally, when I was about 12, after getting my school picture taken, I took off my tie, messed up my hair, got back in line and invented my twin-that I named Charles-and got into the yearbook twice.

Okay, so studio monitors make the sound a lot better. I figured that. I'm kind of wondering how much space the monitors take up with their stands. I mean they should probably be placed behind the piano, which means I've got to move it away from the wall. And then, if I just get a decent amp, I dunno, maybe 150 watts say, the speakers that come with it are not proportionally bigger than the watt to speaker size in a monitor. So is the sound in an amp a decent trade off for monitors?

I could buy just the piano then get monitors later. But I'm probably going to buy from Kraft music over here in the states. And they offer deals when you bundles stuff together...plus free shipping.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/03/13 05:23 AM

Imagine the following situation:

You are playing a gig at a club with the FP-80 and singing at the same time. It's pretty loud and tight and the stage is small. So you send the output from the piano and a microphone to the desk of the venue. To monitor the sound you get a mix back and hook it up to the input of the piano. Sure, thinking why not use the internal speakers of the FP-80 as monitors. So what happens???? The input signal is mixed with the internal sound on the DP causing a loop. Meaning: anything that goes into the input is mixed with the output of the piano. So in this case the piano is doubled. OK, so you you take the piano out of the monitoring signal from the desk. What do you get now? Now you still hear the pianos internal sound and the microphone through the internal speakers. BUT.... on the output side you are sending both signals (the pianos internal sound and the inputed microphone) to the desk. So basically there is no way of using the internal speakers as monitors on stage because anything you send to the piano will be output at the same time. There is no possibility to break this chain within the piano itself.

I hope this wasn't too confusing. I just wanted to demonstrate a critical situation that can occur when using the FP-80 in a live situation.
The problem could only be solved by an internal switch in the FP-80 not to send the inputs to the outputs. Which just plainly doesn't exist.
Posted by: wynton

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/03/13 10:21 AM

As I mentioned in another thread I started yesterday (before noticing this one), I visited a shop and found myself trying to decide between the FP-50 (the FP-80 was not on the floor), the Yamaha CP-40, and the Privia.

I need a lot more hands-on time before deciding what I prefer. Initially, I really liked the FP-50 action and AP sounds. But I was concerned about two things, and am interested in opinions.

The FP-50 has only a few pre-set AP sounds, whereas the CP-40 had many. Does this difference matter? Or, to put it differently, can I effectively get the same range of AP sounds by fiddling with other settings (EQ, reverb, etc), even if the FP-50 does not have as many preset sounds?

Ultimately, I suspect that I will use just 1-2 AP sounds, so I think the most relevant question is how the "best" AP sound on each keyboard compares. But I'm not sure.

My second concern, though, is the EP sounds on the FP-50. I was not impressed with those sounds (particularly the Rhodes), but again, don't know yet whether I would be satisfied if I had time to experiment with the individual settings.

Can anyone you offer an opinion about whether one can tweak the EP sounds on the FP-50 to make them roughly comparable to the EP sounds on the CP-40 (or other keyboards in the same price range)? And can you tell me whether the AP settings can be changed to offer roughly similar choices? I'm also interested in knowing whether the same answers apply to the FP-80.

Thanks.
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/11/13 06:33 AM

Ooooooooo...... (Drum Roll).

There is an update for the FP-80! 1.10!

Go to FP-80 support.

Here is what has changed....

"Update history
[ Ver.1.10 ]
Additional Functions
Available for the following applications.
Piano Partner

Added two functions of "Master Expression" and "Rotary Sw" into "Changing the Function of the Pedal ( Center Pedal Function/Left Pedal Function )"

Well, not a real biggy, but hey, the rotary effect is now switchable with the pedals.

I'm going to install it and report soon....

Cheerio
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/11/13 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Cmin
Well, not a real biggy, but hey, the rotary effect is now switchable with the pedals.


Well, it's great that Roland is supporting their instruments with software updates, however I'm a little surprised that switching the rotary speed via a pedal wasn't possible from the very beginning.
Posted by: cabi

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/15/13 01:41 PM

I have installed the update 1.10.
No problem,easy install
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/15/13 04:11 PM

Yeah, it works fine.
It is so much fun playing the organ with the pedal rotary effect. It's funny how such a small thing can bring so much joy.
Posted by: peterws

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/15/13 05:27 PM

"Well, not a real biggy, but hey, the rotary effect is now switchable with the pedals."

How would you switch it on or off before? I had an ole Yam psr which did this via the dsp button . . .the one I have now doesn`t do it at all at all!
Posted by: Cmin

Re: All about Roland FP-80 & FP-50!!! - 12/16/13 02:48 AM

One had to push the organ button to turn on/off the rotary effect.
I have no idea how Yamaha does it.