Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?

Posted by: pianoworldanon

Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 03:24 AM

Two part question:

a)
Anybody experience Casio infinite "Please wait" error message? If so, please share model, how it was finally resolved, and if it happened again after the warranty period. I'm trying to figure out if these terminal types of software / hardware errors are common. For me, the Casio AP-620 terminal "please wait" error really scares me from long term ownership of this piano in particular when it appears that other models from the same company have the same issue. I don't think this is a bug as it is QA issue, either a faulty bug or Flash / memory component. I've only performed a default reset about 2 to 3 times, and I don't know if by doing this, writing to the Flash in only a few times may contribute to the failure. It shouldn't if the components are of high quality.


b)
Anybody experience similar error message that won't go away which rendered your piano useless (regardless of brand)? Brand / Model / and was it out of warranty / How long you had it before such failure that would prevent you from playing the piano?


In your response, please tell me how the issue was resolved, specifically, if you had to drive the piano to a repair shop, miles driven, how many round trip did it take and did you have to leave the piano there over night, or did the company mail you the component, etc or did the company send a repair man to your house to fix the electronic issue?

Also tell me the approximate years of ownership before this happened and if it was in or out of warranty and the out of pocket $$ it cost for repair.

I ask these two questions to get a feel of reliability of a digital pianos in addition to what the ordeal was like. There is no need for you to write "I had so and so piano for x years, and never had a problem." What I want is a general feel of things in regards to DP vs. Accoustic. Please keep thread on topic and not go on tangent, but feel free to provide detail on experience. For example, issue and did the manufacturer send a tech to your house to fix it, or did you have drive hundreds of miles to drop it off??

I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my Digital Piano and get a used 1985 Upright Yamaha instead because I don't want to be stuck with a dead weight after the warranty where I can't afford to repair the DP. Yes, I currently have an issue now and have written about it on a separate thread. At least with an Acoustic, you won't find such catastrophic end of life, and in some cases, you can repair the acoustic piano yourself.

I'm curious, how much do you think an average Main board cost, and the power supply? Single DIY key action replacement? I mean, practically, my impression is that the company can charge you whatever they want when the customer have a dead weight, and that's why I write.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 04:23 AM

Good question. But there may be many like myself of longstanding who have never had problems with their Yamaha pianos . . .now and again, a "Digital Twitch" means I have to switch off, and on again very occasionally, always to do with DSP whatever that is.. I accompany this with a "Gallic Shrug".

But I would never go down the acoustic path. Why settle for a model"T" when you can have "Mustang" . . . not a very good analogy was it?
Posted by: peterws

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 04:30 AM

Forgot to mention, A kAWAI I had from new failed me within the guarantee period. It was still hard work getting it sorted; I needed it for work I was doing. Rumour has it things have improved. The best advice I can give would be to buy cheap, or unfashionable models such as the DGS 640 which you`ll get for around £550 . .. new.

But DPs are fixable. And insurable if you`re over worried. That last option sounds attractive if you spend a lot on it . . hope this is helpful
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 04:42 AM

Originally Posted By: peterws
Forgot to mention, A kAWAI I had from new failed me within the guarantee period. It was still hard work getting it sorted; I needed it for work I was doing. Rumour has it things have improved. The best advice I can give would be to buy cheap, or unfashionable models such as the DGS 640 which you`ll get for around £550 . .. new.

But DPs are fixable. And insurable if you`re over worried. That last option sounds attractive if you spend a lot on it . . hope this is helpful


I've been thinking about selling my digital piano and get a used good acoustic piano so I started this thread -- I'm just very very scared of these poor quality assurance. I can't afford to pay out of pocket after the warranty period. If there's a section on pros and cons of a digital piano, feel free to link my threads cuz this is one of the hidden cons of a digital piano, not only the fear of it go into terminal breakage after the warranty period is over, but also the double round trips per issue. This is something that I did not anticipate when I got the digital piano. I am told by the seller of pianos that seldom does electronic piano have issues! This is BS! total BS or this reputable seller is just ignorant of the issues. I think it's helpful to bring these digital issues to light so that people are more aware before they go buy a digital. After having done some reading online, I'm inclined to get an inexpensive used reliable acoustic and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post2059173

and

http://vimeo.com/28802239

thank you peter for sharing.
Posted by: Clayman

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 05:41 AM

Well, in defense of the digital pianos, they should not really break down that often. Of course, they still are electric/electronic appliances and are therefore subject to random power spikes/surges that may damage the delicate electronic parts such as memory or processor(s). Things like that simply happen and there's little you can do except use electric outlets with spike protection.

If you think an acoustic piano is the way you want to go, then by all means go for it. Keep in mind, however, that acoustic pianos bring with themselves a different bunch of problems and each piece is unique and different.
Posted by: ando

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 06:04 AM

Originally Posted By: peterws


But I would never go down the acoustic path. Why settle for a model"T" when you can have "Mustang" . . . not a very good analogy was it?


Every time you say things like that, you make it impossible for me to take you seriously as a musician.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:01 AM

Ando, I don`t expect nor desire anybody to take me seriously as a musician or otherwise . . .have fun, lad!
Posted by: MagicK

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:30 AM

It is really simple. If you can afford an acoustic, don't need the features of a digital, have the space for it, are willing to pay for keeping it in tune, buy an acoustic.
Posted by: ando

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:34 AM

Originally Posted By: peterws
Ando, I don`t expect nor desire anybody to take me seriously as a musician or otherwise . . .have fun, lad!


Ok, I won't take you seriously in any respect from now on. But it does prompt the question: what exactly are you on here for? What is the point of the all the oddball threads you start and the posts you make championing the superiority of cheap electronic gear over substantial acoustic instruments? Heck, you don't even defend DPs from the quality end of the digital piano spectrum - you give the impression that you are totally amazed by any cheap keyboard that stays in tune. It's the very definition of a troll - although you are a relatively harmless troll. If your purpose is comic relief, then I think it needs to be a lot funnier because ultimately, this is a piano forum frequented by musicians and hobbyists who are interested in halfway intelligent discussion.
Posted by: R Jay

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 08:15 AM

Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.


You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.
Posted by: JFP

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 09:41 AM

Originally Posted By: R Jay
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.


You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.


+1
Posted by: MagicK

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 10:34 AM

You can learn to tune and regulate a piano, change parts, adjust felts etc. by yourself, with books, online tutorials or by posting questions on the piano tuner forum but. It's no magic but during that time be sure to have a second piano at hand, should you want to actually play ;-)
Posted by: Temperament

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 11:13 AM

Originally Posted By: JFP
Originally Posted By: R Jay
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.

You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.

+1

--1 !
Why not, with some initial practicing and really good Tuning SW you can do it, and it is a new experience and know-how, and later on You can experiment perhaps with other temperaments also !
I would begin in cooperation with a PT, borrow a tuning kit from him for a day (lever, dampening rubber) doing it at first myself (will cost probably the whole day at first!) and on the first occasion I would call the piano technician to revise your work and give some advise.
And after this You will see is your your cup of tea or not, but You will have learned a lot about pianos.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 12:29 PM

I have never had a spontaneous electronic failure, but I did botch a firmware update on my Kawai MP8 one time and the piano started making jibberish sounds when I played. Trying to reflash did not work. Had to replace the main board.

I suppose it doesn't count because it wasn't a reliability issue as much as a user error issue.

For the most part you don't see software or electronic problems in DP's before they are obsolete and get replaced voluntarily.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Clayman
Well, in defense of the digital pianos, they should not really break down that often. Of course, they still are electric/electronic appliances and are therefore subject to random power spikes/surges that may damage the delicate electronic parts such as memory or processor(s). Things like that simply happen and there's little you can do except use electric outlets with spike protection.

If you think an acoustic piano is the way you want to go, then by all means go for it. Keep in mind, however, that acoustic pianos bring with themselves a different bunch of problems and each piece is unique and different.


A device such as these should in theory take care of all power spikes:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE600-Automatic-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B00009RA5Z/ref=pd_sim_e_1

And there's no need to replace batteries that UPS requires.. but there are some high end UPS that does have the AVR (automatic voltage regulator built in). THe above is for max of 600 watts which should be sufficient for all digital pianos, otherwise get the 1200 watt model.

Therefore, memory, cpu, sensitive electronic components would never be affected, adn then it comes down to the quality of the capacitors and internal components. Years back, many Dell PC are known to have faulty bulgy capacitors.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: R Jay
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.


You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.


It is easy to tune a piano:
http://frugalberry.com/tune-your-own-piano/

And it's not that difficult to even replace other parts if necessary:
http://frugalberry.com/replacing-piano-tuning-pins/

I've thought about it.
Posted by: Scott Hamlin

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/05/13 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: peterws

But I would never go down the acoustic path. Why settle for a model"T" when you can have "Mustang" . . . not a very good analogy was it?


Posted by: CarloPiano

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 05:58 AM

It's curious but I never ever experienced an electronic failure on a digital piano. I still own a 1987 one and the electronics work as good as they were the first day. I also used many DP's on many places (at music schools, friend's houses and the like) many of them ranging form 10 to 25 years old and their electronics work fine. Another story are the mechanics, they are much more prone to fail (in 5-10 years, I think it's normal to find one or two, or three, sticky keys in a DP).

Anyway the regular maintenance of an acoustic piano is for sure more expensive than occasional repairs of an electronic piano. I think it's crazy doing tuning and adjustment of an AP by oneself with the help of a few tutorials and software found on the Internet.

Regarding the main topic, I think the OP's piano's failure is just a bad luck issue. IMHO is an isolated case that may not be used as an argument for the acoustic vs digital preference.
Posted by: peterws

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 07:28 AM

Plinky, I knew I could count on you for an honest appraisal . . . cheers man! grin
Posted by: peterws

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 07:34 AM

PWANON Just a thought on piano tuning. You can get digital devices to take the guesswork out of this to a good degree. I used 12 tuning forks in the old days . . . .

I also had a pal (musician lol) who learned to plaster by undertaking such work on his neighbour`s walls . . . .
Posted by: R Jay

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
Originally Posted By: R Jay
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.


You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.


It is easy to tune a piano:
http://frugalberry.com/tune-your-own-piano/

And it's not that difficult to even replace other parts if necessary:
http://frugalberry.com/replacing-piano-tuning-pins/

I've thought about it.



So it's easy because someone says so on the internet. Perhaps we should learn how to play in 5 by visiting ehow/expert village.
Posted by: MacMacMac

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 04:07 PM

Funny! smile
Originally Posted By: R Jay
So it's easy because someone says so on the internet. Perhaps we should learn how to play in 5 by visiting ehow/expert village.
Not to contradict you ... but I think the best new tuner/technicians got their training at Woolworth's. (Hmmm ... will anyone here recognize such an old-school reference?) smile
Posted by: Temperament

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 04:56 PM

I did tuning myself with 53 ys the first time and the result was OK. Took one whole day and my friend revised it next day with minor adjustments in the deep bass.

Him took the whole tuning process 1 hr...

(He is a piano technician).
Posted by: Dave B

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/06/13 10:35 PM

Thanks for the instructions on how to respond to your questions. I've had no problems with the inexpensive Yamaha digital that I've been playing almost daily for the last six years. I feel the reliability of digital pianos is well proven. I've seen them bought, sold, traded, loaned, tossed into the back of trucks, dropped down stairs, spilled on, walked on by a two year old, and they keep working.

Keep in mind that acoustic pianos need servicing. Regular tuning and repair averages $200-$300 per year. Extend that out ten years and you've paid a good portion of the cost of a digital.

Owning both a digital and an acoustic is very common. I don't know if there are statistics, but I would guess that it is well over 80% who have both. Can we ever have too many musical instruments in the house?
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/07/13 03:24 AM

Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I have never had a spontaneous electronic failure, but I did botch a firmware update on my Kawai MP8 one time and the piano started making jibberish sounds when I played. Trying to reflash did not work. Had to replace the main board.

I suppose it doesn't count because it wasn't a reliability issue as much as a user error issue.

For the most part you don't see software or electronic problems in DP's before they are obsolete and get replaced voluntarily.


How did you get the new main board from Kawai, did they mail it to you or did you have to drive down to Kawai? And if you did drive down to Kawai, tell me how many miles was your one way trip and did you have to go back on a separate date to pick up your piano? Or was a Kawai technician sent to your residence? Give us some details to the story, in particular about Kawai's response.

The reason I'm asking this is because for my terminal "please wait" issue on the AP-620, I have to drive 2 hours round trip to an authorized repair center, leave it at the repair shop for them to diagnose then they order a part, then after they repair it and burn in, I would have to again drive 2 hours round trip it pick it up. All of this is not my fault and I don't want to suffer through this again in particular after my DP runs out of warranty. It's currently in warranty but I feel that Casio has pushed this ridiculous work onto me. They refuse to send out a tech or even mail me the main board. I mean, what else could it be besides the main board. It's not rocket science.

How did you botch up your firmware? I'm curious.. cuz it either works or won't work. Typically, the firmware software would let you know the condition of the piano and whether it's appropriate before it launches the firmware file. How was it your fault unless you had electrical failure at the time of update or that you tripped over some wires.

I wasn't expecting fatal errors such as the infinite "Please wait" error on the casio AP-620. Since I'm not the only one who has this issue in addition to other Casio model, this has really scared me a bit. I just didn't expect it. A crash here and there or freeze is okay, but a terminal infinite "please wait" is not acceptable. Any terminal software bug due to programming or chip failure like this that has a pattern is not acceptable.

Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/07/13 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By: CarloPiano
.

Regarding the main topic, I think the OP's piano's failure is just a bad luck issue. IMHO is an isolated case that may not be used as an argument for the acoustic vs digital preference.


Bad luck? What I found appears that Casio has a pattern of the same sort of fatal errors across models:


two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1000...ing&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1033...ing&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electronic-mus...orked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-Celvia...howViewpoints=1

I'd like to know about other brands as well. Because of the above, I don't think it's "bad luck" as it is either a bad design / bug / or QA of the components either Flash rom or something. I've gotten very scared of DP because of this experience.


Update: I will need to find and fix the links. Above are two costco links that are fixed.
Posted by: Ken Knapp

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/07/13 05:58 AM

In digitals, just as in acoustics, there are good brands and there are bad brands. Some companies support their products for many many years after they are discontinued. Some companies don't like to provide service after the warranty expires and expect you to replace the unit.

Tuning an acoustic piano is not as easy as some people may say. At least, not in my experience. I have tried it and have some very good tuning tools, but it is not easy and I expect I would have to work at it pretty hard to get it right, perhaps over the course of a couple years.

Being that I work on digitals and organs, I am not going to "kiss and tell", but there is a difference in brands. In the <$1000 market there are brands I would not touch with a 10 foot pole.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/07/13 03:33 PM

Thank you Ken.
Posted by: Dave B

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/08/13 09:39 PM

Ken, Thanks for admitting that tuning an acoustic piano isn't easy. It normally takes ~ 10 yrs of full time work to become a competent Tuner/Tech. With or without the aid of an ETD.
Posted by: Mike_Martin

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/08/13 09:48 PM

pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/15/13 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.


Hi Mike, I've fixed the links:
Here's the Costco reviews.. just search for "please wait"

two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1000...ing&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca/1033...ing&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electronic-mus...orked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-Celvia...howViewpoints=1

On another thread, I've heard about you mentioning that in-home service is part of the warranty? Is this true?? And under what condition? I ask this pointed question because when I called Casio Repair, I'm told specifically I must haul this piano in. If this is not true and / or is a new policy, I'd like to know.

The big concern started when I called Casio then found out that for California, 9 out of 10 authorized repair station centers around LA, and then even the closest one to where I live, in San Jose, will require two round trip drives on separate days which will total 4 hour drive.


http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters#CA

I can't imagine what would happen for other users who experience similar or same electrical issue. Casio should have in-house service for these QA / Design issue. You've mentioned that the The WK-3000 is 10+ years old, yet the AP-620 have the same error and sympton, which lead me to believe that there's a design issue. I don't know if this is a battery issue or not, but I'm told that I'm not allowed to open the piano where it would void the warranty. If it is a battery issue, then maybe casio can have a diagram where it teaches users how to open it after the warranty period. Mine is still in warranty, but I'm told that if the battery does exist, then it would still die after about 8 years. The back of the piano has screws to the wood that is staple gunned on the buttom. I'm not sure if the top piece can easily be remove to get at the battery, but should the battery die after 8 years, I would like to repair it. This piano is less than 2 years old.

The other issue is that for people who live far away from LA or San Jose in California, Casio will void the warranty even if Casio were to send the board for self repair. If digital pianos are as reliable as they are, then casio shouldn't be afraid of taking in the cost to send out in-house service for issues that are not a fault of the users. I believe Kawai does this from what I've read as they only have one main service center, so likewise, Kawai can't expect people to drive down to their only service center.

Therefore, I think piano companies should make pianos easy to open and replace parts (and agree that it'll still be in warranty after a user-instructed-repair AND / OR send in-house service rather than having customers drive many hours and a minimum of two round trips to service something like this. For those customers who had the fatal "please wait" error that won't go away, I can't imagine how angry they are. I've also heard independently from a piano repair shop that customers are NOT allowed to buy the boards after the warranty period is over for certain brands? This is what got me VERY worried about buying digital pianos. That $1300 is not easy money for some families, and I can't afford to be forced into "upgrading" or buying another one. Even if this board is replaced during the warranty period, I'm still very nervous about it happening again because there are patterns and linkage to old models that have the same issue. If this is really just a battery issue, then casio should keep track and give precise instructions on how to remedy before / after warranty. This should be Standard Operating Procedure. The current standing policy at Casio is that even if Casio agrees to ship me the board and in install it, the fact that if I were to open the piano, it would void the warranty, thus, so far, I must bring this thing in.

I guess many people don't know that there is a battery in digital pianos that will go off in about 8 or so years, which will prevent saving settings. This sort of stuff should also be in the manual. I'm sure many people are not technically savy to know about these sort of stuff, and thus, another call in for repair / board swap or upgrade? That's not honest, and this applies to all companies that don't announce this sort of issue that can be anticipated with virtual certainty.

For my piano, I'm told it's not a battery issue.
Posted by: galaxy4t

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/15/13 08:14 PM

The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: galaxy4t
The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.


I agree.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 04:53 PM

[Edited]
Posted by: Kawai James

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: pv88
Not that I want to continue to harp on a negative issue...


With the greatest respect, you have made a habit of doing precisely this for every instrument you have purchased - be it a Roland, Casio, or Kawai.

James
x
Posted by: Mike_Martin

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 06:16 PM

Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.
Posted by: Mike_Martin

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 06:30 PM

PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.
Posted by: EssBrace

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 06:30 PM

With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...
Posted by: pv88

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/16/13 06:49 PM

[Edited]
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/18/13 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.



I'll give you the serial number in a private message. SO, it's official that Casio Keyboards have IN HOUSE warranty from MIKE. THEREFORE, is someone has problem with their CASIO and their center tells them to drive multiple hours, contact MIKE. I would hope Mike can straighten the customer service reps out when people call.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/18/13 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...


TROLL ELSE WHERE!
Posted by: dewster

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/18/13 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
TROLL ELSE WHERE!

Irony, dead, etc.

Honestly, it must be pure agony to be in a product support role with a couple of nitpicky-to-a-fault customers consuming all of your time chasing ghosts in the machine.
Posted by: pianoworldanon

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/18/13 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: pianoworldanon
TROLL ELSE WHERE!

Irony, dead, etc.

Honestly, it must be pure agony to be in a product support role with a couple of nitpicky-to-a-fault customers consuming all of your time chasing ghosts in the machine.


Give me the job of customer support and product improvement to any company (minus the politics) and I would contribute in many times over my salary. I have a natural knack of spotting trends, product improvement, improvement in support and workflow, and love to dig in to find root cause.

I've recommended before that the boards should be made so that it can easily be taken out of the piano and swapped through the mail instead of sending techs or have customers drive x # of hours to the service stations. Two trips are the minimum requirement. I think everybody would be happy, and honestly, there's no reason for customers to go digging into the pianos if there's nothing wrong with it, therefore, there's no reason why Companies shouldn't allow customers to swap out the parts themselves. If there's adjustments of the keyboard, then that's an entirely different story which does justify more service. Due to the piano's heavy weight, it is the right thing to do to implement mail order swap. It does not take a scientist to follow simple instructions on what to disconnect and what to plug in if it's designed right.

I wrote to Mike and we'll see if he can send someone out to replace this board or let me replace it provided they still honor the warranty. The more I think about it, the more I think it's nutty to have me unscrew the piano, haul it into my car, drive, and leave my piano to a site, go home, wait for the tech to order the parts, then I drive back to pick it up, haul it home, re-install it, and hope it works. All this to replace a board that weighs less than 1 pound. smile From what I've heard, some companies void the warranty and don't let customer replace the parts because they are afraid of being sued for electric shock. I don't know if this is valid concern.
Posted by: pv88

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano? - 04/18/13 07:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike_Martin
PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.


Update:

Please note that I no longer own any Casio's as I sold the PX-130 to a private seller and traded in the AP-620 for a new Kawai CA95.

As I now have:

1) Roland V-Piano
2) Kawai CA95
3) Kawai EP3