BOSE Anyone ?

Posted by: dmd

BOSE Anyone ? - 07/05/13 10:56 PM

Just wondering if anyone has tried the BOSE line of speakers as external speakers for a digital piano.

I am about ready to take a leap in this direction so I could benefit by other experiences.

Anyone ?
Posted by: Allan W.

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/05/13 11:17 PM

I don't think Bose is well regarded for their home theater speakers, in terms of performance for their cost. ie. for the same price as a Bose, you can buy some other brand and get something better.

It seems like you already have pricey monitors, so what are you looking to spend?
Posted by: SBP

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/05/13 11:29 PM

*resisting Bosendorfer pun*
Posted by: Charles Cohen

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/05/13 11:48 PM

The head of my local music store has used the Bose PA system -- very slim towers, plus floor-mounted woofers -- for gigs, and likes it. I think it's pricey, compared to the competition.

If you're thinking of using Bose "home audio" speakers, I have my doubts. The specs (for whatever specs are worth) aren't published, and the drivers aren't very big, as I remember.

. Charles

PS -- as the previous post asks -- what are you trying to accomplish that you can't do with the Focal monitors?
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 07:10 AM

You know, I am really just flailing around in the dark.

I feel that the sound I get now could be "warmer".

I find it gets a bit too sharp/tinny as I increase the volume.

If I try to tone it down some with my mixer, then it begins to sound muffled.

I tried out the Focal CMS65 monitors and they were pretty much the same as what I already have, just a bit more bass ... so they went back. I guess that means that powered monitors are not going to do it, for me.

I have read (on this forum) about some feeling that stereo speakers may be able to give a warmer sound because they are designed to do that, as opposed to monitors being designed to "tell it like it is".

Anyway ...like I said ... Flailing around in the dark.

P.S. Why BOSE ? Simple ... I can run out to my local BESTBUY, bring them home, try them, If not good ... bring them back ... no cost. And, I have heard them being used in a local bar and they sounded very good.



Posted by: rnaple

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 07:52 AM

Speakers are a matter of what works. Need to listen to them. That's what it all comes down to.

I have my Event's because the reputation was that they are easy to listen to. Very accurate and not harsh. I know the basis of harsh monitors is from those Yamaha monitors everyone claims have done so much mixing. People had the attitude that you had to have that hard output to judge well. When you really don't. Just accurate.
I really like my Event's. When something sounds harsh. It is harsh. They don't revert to a square wave falsely. smile
I also know what real harsh sounds like. A snare drum should sound that way. Ever stood in front of a guy banging on a snare drum? Just plain irritating.
Posted by: peterws

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 08:47 AM

When Bose first came out, we were all astounded that tiny speakers could sound so . . . perfect. The bass was just delicious, the treble very pleasing. Much better than the old Celestion speakers we had then, in a variety of manufacturer`s cabinets. I always wanted some . . .

In those days, an 18 inch speaker handles 50W . . .mind you, it sounded bloody good!
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Allan W.
I don't think Bose is well regarded for their home theater speakers, in terms of performance for their cost. ie. for the same price as a Bose, you can buy some other brand and get something better.

It seems like you already have pricey monitors, so what are you looking to spend?


I won't recommend bose as well..

Have the AE1 triport headphones.. It was a gift. My Sony V6 for literally half the cost would completely blow out the Bose any day..


Of course sound is subjective.. this is just my opinion.

I will admit though Bose are very comfortable headphones. Soft plush cushions..

But soundwise you could do better for a lot less cash.
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 09:03 AM

Bose nowadays is more marketing than anything else.

My understanding is they stopped innovating for a while now.

They are completely frowned on in the audiophile community.

But again, Everything Audiowise is Subjective.

It's really up to u at the end of the day.
If u like it go for it.

Heck I'd probably get a OE2 If I had some spare change.. They are so bloody comfortable. The soft padded plush leather feels like a divine Angel's hands cupping your ears.



Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 09:03 AM

Probably not the best analogy but u get the idea
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Mta88
Originally Posted By: Allan W.
I don't think Bose is well regarded for their home theater speakers, in terms of performance for their cost. ie. for the same price as a Bose, you can buy some other brand and get something better.

It seems like you already have pricey monitors, so what are you looking to spend?


I won't recommend bose as well..

Have the AE1 triport headphones.. It was a gift. My Sony V6 for literally half the cost would completely blow out the Bose any day..


Of course sound is subjective.. this is just my opinion.

I will admit though Bose are very comfortable headphones. Soft plush cushions..

But soundwise you could do better for a lot less cash.



You seem to be focusing on headphones.

Headphones are not the issue. Everything sounds good through my phones. It is when it passes through the speakers and out into the air that things begin to deteriorate.
Posted by: Dave Horne

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 09:15 AM

I thought about buying those new speaker columns by Bose but found them just a tad too expensive.

I've been using the Bose 802s on jobs for about 20 years and they sound great. The disadvantage, I carry a rack case with an amp and mixer (and more).

I've played recorded music through my 802s and they really sound excellent. Singers love them.

A lot of guys seem to like powered speakers and that certainly makes set up a lot easier.
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 12:21 PM

Let's just put it like this. When taken apart, while all the other manufacturers have upgraded to better and more expensive synthetic materials. Base still use paper cups.

Their home theatre systems as well are not created with the best audio quality in mind, but the best convenience. They are made to look neat and tidy and as a result they suffer sonically in comparison to the competition at the same price ranges.

Same goes for their headphones. The competition always has something better at the same price range.

Their speakers from the 80s from what I understand was the best thing at the time. But now they have a reputation of living on their name.
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 12:23 PM

Bose still use*
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 12:24 PM

If u want a pair of decent speakers, klipsch has a very good reputation.

I would recommend to consider their products. At least everything except the image one on ear. That was their worst product ever. Completely out of the norm for them
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 12:25 PM

802s from Bose were awesome from what I understand. Everything afterwards not so much.
Posted by: dbudde

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 01:33 PM

Something else to consider for a DP is the Bose Live Sound series of products. People seem very happy with these. And they do publish technical specs for them. They are expensive ($1K and up). The L1 Compact should work well in the home as well as for small gigs.

For information about these:
http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/portable_amplification_systems/index.jsp

For tech specs:
http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?title=Downloads#Compact
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 05:23 PM

Originally Posted By: dbudde
The L1 Compact should work well in the home



I just got offline with a BOSE rep and after describing my interest, he suggested the L1. I looked into it and it looks good. Of course, everything looks good but what matters is how it sounds and that can only be determined by trying it.

So, I think I just might do it.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Posted by: Mta88

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/06/13 08:50 PM

As I said, if you really like the sound ignore me.

Just make sure to try before u buy.
Posted by: moleskincrusher

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/08/13 01:58 AM

I have had the Bose L1 Compact for about a year. Got it at Guitar Center for $1K minus 15% holiday discount and old PA speaker trade-in.

For my current casual gigging -- solo keyboard, accompanyng vocals or as sideman with jazz quartet or quintet, the L1 sounds good loud and is never overtaxed. Peerlessly fast and lightweight to schlep and set-up-tear-down, and with piston array column I never have had any feedback or audibility or coverage problems, even outdoors.

The two main cons are: (1) way overpriced even with my discounts. (2) in line level mode there is only a volume control, no e.q., reverb or effects; you must use those on your keyboard, or I recommend, depending on the quality of the sum-to-mono capability of your keyboard's "audio out", a stereo direct box or a mixer (I use a 4-channel Chinese-made Mackie, not the best but perfectly adequate).
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/12/13 07:45 PM

I tried out the BOSE Solo TV Sound product.

I did not get very far with the test because the first thing I noticed was that it introduced some latency into the sound chain. That was a deal breaker for me so I boxed it back up and am ready to take it back tomorrow.
Posted by: kippesc

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/12/13 11:53 PM

What about the L1? Surely, that would not add latency.
Posted by: Marko in Boston

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 07:31 AM

If Bose is a must and size is a factor, maybe try the bar route if you dont like L1:
http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop..._1_sr/index.jsp
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 08:11 AM

Well, the truth is ... after hearing the sound through the SOLO product, aside from the latency, I was not all that impressed. It was good ... but not mind blowing good.

And availability is also a factor here. The solo system was something I could just grab off the shelf at my local BestBuy and now ... bring it back ... no hassle. The L1 and/or the SR systems are not that easily available.

Also, cost is now getting to be a consideration with a price tag of 1000 / 1500.

I am not quite as hyped about finding a better solution now as I was because I discussed this with an "expert" at a local Stereo Shoppe. I brought in my Focals and we compared them to various systems they had and the conclusion was that I wasn't going to get anything appreciably better. So, now that I have come to terms with that ... I find that I am ok with the sound I have. At least for now. LOL ...
Posted by: kippesc

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 03:00 PM

Did you take your piano to the stereo store? I've been wondering if home stereo speakers (good ones and probably floor standing) might be more effective than monitors at distributing sound for purposes of playing DPs in a home. I also have wondered if the L1 might distribute sound effectively, though I have no idea if it would have sufficient detail/accuracy.
Posted by: Tritium

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: dmd
Just wondering if anyone has tried the BOSE line of speakers as external speakers for a digital piano.

I am about ready to take a leap in this direction so I could benefit by other experiences.

Anyone ?


Further to previous comments by Mta88,

There is a saying in the audiophile community which goes:

"No highs, no lows...must be Bose"

- or -

Buy Other Sound Equipment

No offense to owners of Bose products, but they used to actually make a good product back in the 70s, with their bookshelf speakers. But, as others have already noted, they turned into a Marketing company, which puts out over-hyped products at way too high a price, considering the quality of components they use.

Furthermore, their published specifications (e.g. frequency response curves) are either non-existent or purposely vague. Independent tests by audio engineers have confirmed just how poor their systems perform in reality...especially as compared to other manufacturer's, which offer superior products at half the cost (or less).

Go to any hi-fi / audio site, and you will read how poorly they are considered and rated.

Here is a typical post, taken from Stereophile user forum, that sums up many people's assessment of BOSE as a company, and their products:

Quote:
Bose is a great marketing company that makes mediocre (at best) speakers. First of all, I believe that most would agree that they start their design from a flawed premise. They've always said that 7/8 of the sound we hear is reflected, as apposed to direct sound. This is why most of the drivers in a 901 face in odd directions. Ask anyone from Bose where this number comes from and they can't tell you. This is creating false space as apposed to recreating the space that is actually captured on the recording. Then you have their active equalizer that is there to compensate electronically by forcing drivers past their physical limits to get a "big" sound out of a small box. This MUST create distortion. This is only one of the products, the others are equally flawed.

Then you look at their tendency to sue people for the most goofy reasons. They sued CEDIA (Consumer Electronics Design and Installation Association), a trade association of which they are a member for the use of the word "Lifestyle" with respect to audio. Years ago they sued Thiel because they used that same model number. Which is just stupid because the whole idea copyrights is to avoid confusion in the market place. Who in the world is going to confuse Bose and Thiel? Especially when the speakers looked completely different and were designed from a completely different technical point of view?

The following is from Wikipedia, "In 1981 Bose unsuccessfully sued the magazine Consumer Reports for libel. Consumer Reports reported in a review that the sound from the system that they reviewed "tended to wander about the room." The District Court found that Consumer Reports "had published the false statement with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of its truth or falsity" when it changed what the original reviewer wrote about the speakers in his pre-publication draft. The Court of Appeals reversed the trial court's ruling on liability, and the United States Supreme Court affirmed in a 6-3 vote in the case Bose Corp. v. Consumers Union of United States, Inc., finding that the statement was made without actual malice, and therefore there was no liability for libel." I can't believe that they sued someone for a bad review!

Then you look at their draconian approaches in retail such as insisting that their products MUST NOT be set up where they can be actively demoed against other brands and their Secret Police tactics of demanding that managers fire sales people that say anything remotely negative about their brand ON THE SPOT or risk being cut off as a dealer.


Posted by: BDB

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 03:24 PM

Bose news.
Posted by: emenelton

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 03:46 PM

For live the L1 is an incredible system(according to moleskincrusher). Comparing it to the tv bar or any other home product is not really meaningful.
Posted by: dbudde

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 05:47 PM

Posted by: Tritium

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 06:35 PM

Opinions seem to be polarized on the BOSE L1 system, although the majority seems to be more on the negative side.

A quick search on a couple of guitar sites I frequent, and some of the comments were so bad (offensive), I was embarrassed to link to them.

This one seems to be a bit more measured and reasonable. Also, there seems to be a big difference in opinion in terms of sound reproduction of either full band and/or electric guitar, versus solo volalist/acoustic and perhaps keyboard:

BOSE L1 System commentary from The Gear Page

A few quotes from the above thread, that seems fairly representative:

Quote:
#10 Old 08-03-2010, 10:54 AM
LelandCrooks LelandCrooks is offline
Member Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 37

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidE View Post
Work great for solo or duo acoustic gigs. A pair didn't fare as well for my three piece electric band.

Which is what they were designed for, and work pretty well for that in small club settings. Way overpriced for what they are and what they do. Typical Bose product.


Quote:
speakerjones;8804445
I have spent significant time with the Bose L1 and Compact in a controlled setting, and have done shootouts vs. various other speakers, including QSC K-series. I (and 6 other professional audio engineers) came to the same conclusion as others here. The L1 would be a good PA for a soloist or duo in a coffeehouse setting (assuming said artist(s) had the budget to spend). The compact sounded anemic, maybe OK for little girls singing karaoke in their bedroom. QSC K-series FTW. The K's are far more versatile, as easy to set up, and better sounding. I'm not a Bose basher by any means. I have some of their other pro-audio speakers (402's, 802's) that I like and that have made me lots of money.

I've also heard the L1's with full bands in a small theater, and a bar, and with an acoustic duo in a coffeehouse. The coffeehouse situation is the only one, where IMO, they didn't fall flat on their face.

The bar gig was my best friend's party rock band. They had a guy bring in a pair of the L1's and used them like conventional main speakers. They're a fairly loud band anyway. The Boses failed miserably.

The theater gig may have been an unfair trial, but it was telling enough. I was called in to do sound for a folk series at a 250 seat university theater. The first night, the band shows up, a four-piece folk rock act. They each have a Bose L1, the bassist and drummer each with a couple of bass bins, and say they won't be needing the house PA. Now the house PA was a nice Meyer Sound rig that had been donated to the theater specifically for this series. I knew that there was a good chance that the people who donated it would show up to the show, and probably want to hear their donation in action. I explained this situation to the band. Since we had some time, we decided to do a shootout - the Meyer PA (with some passive JBL wedges) vs. the L1's. We tried their way first. The L1's sounded OK close up to the stage. You could hear yourself well enough on stage, though having your voice come from behind you was a little disconcerting for me, having always used wedges or IEM's. But, as you got into the house, it sounded rather thin. They definitely DO NOT perform like a true line array. The little bass speakers (they're not really subs, they're car stereo bass speakers) kinda just went thunk, thunk without much conviction. Then we turned the Meyers on. Suddenly the guitars sounded like guitars, the vocals were up front and intelligible, the bass and kick sounded rich and full. I invited them to come out one at a time and listen to the difference. They decided to use their L1's for backline amps, and let me mix the show on the Meyers.

I think Bose is still offering a full no-questions 30 day warranty, so you could always try it out for yourself.


Quote:
The Kid;8805252
For the price of a Bose L1, you can get two QSC K10's and a small mixer (with money to spare) which will blow the Bose system out of the water. I one of my K10's up against my friends L1 and it crushed his setup.

He even went and elevated the L1 so it would throw better, but (as another poster stated) it just doesn't move enough air. He even commented that two K10's and a mixer would be just as easy a setup as his Bose.

I've even done solo acoustic & vocals gigs with one K10 and no mixer. I have volume and eq on my acoustic, so it was easy to get a great sound. I even played my ipod through it on set breaks.

Not to mention that the K10 / mixer route is far more flexible. You can build onto that system for a whole band as your needs progress.



Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 06:49 PM

Well, I do think the L1 is probably a good product. The question that needs to be answered next is ... do I wish to spend $2000 (you really need 2 of them) for my in-home setup ? That may take me awhile to decide. Actually, what will need to happen is that I will need to see that I have that pile of money available with no problem.

So, no action for now.
Posted by: dbudde

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 07:14 PM

Why do you need 2? I never will understand this seemingly universal need to turn a mono instrument into a stereo one.
Posted by: emenelton

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 08:35 PM

I saw a finger style guitarist in a storefront setting with the L1, which is probably one of the easiest thing to make sound great, and it did.

Pardon me for imposing, I thought DMD was looking for a live setup.
I am looking for a 3-way computer speaker setup as a 3rd set of reference for mixing. Right now I have Intrigue 3800 Creative Labs 2.1 in another room. I use them to check my mixes.

OT just got my PX5S
Posted by: dmd

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 08:59 PM

Originally Posted By: dbudde
Why do you need 2? I never will understand this seemingly universal need to turn a mono instrument into a stereo one.


By "mono instrument" I assume you are referring to an acoustic piano. It appears that a digital piano is, in fact, a stereo instrument, unless the sound coming from the LEFT lineout is identical to the sound coming from the RIGHT lineout.
Posted by: dbudde

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 09:35 PM

Channel 2 of the L1 compact has left and right line inputs. While it's true that the speakers ultimately represent a mono instrument, the L1 reproduces music from a stereo source just fine. Many people use it for stereo backing tracks as one of the sources in addition to their instrument.
Posted by: dbudde

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/13/13 10:00 PM

Thought about this some more.... Mono makes more sense in a live situation. Most pianos have mono piano patches for this issue.

Also...

Here's what Bose has to say about this issue.

http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?title=Keyboards_Mono_vs._Stereo
Posted by: Allan W.

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/14/13 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: kippesc
Did you take your piano to the stereo store? I've been wondering if home stereo speakers (good ones and probably floor standing) might be more effective than monitors at distributing sound for purposes of playing DPs in a home. I also have wondered if the L1 might distribute sound effectively, though I have no idea if it would have sufficient detail/accuracy.


I'm pretty satisfied with my floorstanding setup. I think it's the best option if you have plenty of space. (see my signature)

Quote:
Why do you need 2? I never will understand this seemingly universal need to turn a mono instrument into a stereo one.


For playing the piano in your home, you 100% definitely need stereo. The piano is certainly not a mono instrument (from player perspective) and you will lose a lot of depth by listening in mono.
Posted by: gvfarns

Re: BOSE Anyone ? - 07/14/13 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Allan W.
Quote:
Why do you need 2? I never will understand this seemingly universal need to turn a mono instrument into a stereo one.


For playing the piano in your home, you 100% definitely need stereo. The piano is certainly not a mono instrument (from player perspective) and you will lose a lot of depth by listening in mono.


Exactly. And almost all the samples in our pianos are designed to be played stereo. They don't sound right if you try forcing them into mono (or using just one channel). In fact, a complaint we hear from time to time here is that DP's don't include very good samples intended for mono use. A DP is by no means a mono instrument as a rule.