Casio Privia/ nine-year-old beginner

To begin, nice forum here, folks. I have read a couple pages and I am impressed with your helpfulness, and the informed detail and fairness of your help

I want a digital piano for my nine-year-old daughter. She is taking lessons, and is currently using a $200 Yamaha keyboard with 36 or 61 (do you count white keys or all keys) non-weighted keys for her at-home practice. I want to get her an appropriate home instrument that will allow her to happily progress while going easy on space and money.

I want keys with the proper (or close enough) feel to allow a student to become a real piano player. I want a built-in metronome, and I want a built-in recorder with the ability to record a song and lay down some chords to jam over.

My initial contenders were the Yamaha P-90 and the Roland FP-3C, with the Roland, perhaps, having a slight edge on features and price. (I have a couple powered PA speakers (EVSxa 100s)I can stick under the stand to rattle the walls on those special occasions).

Then I saw the heads-up a fellow posted on page two of this forum about the Casio Privia. I did a quick search. It is priced under $500. It has hammer-weighted keys. It has a recorder, metronome, recorded songs, and rhythms. The biggest issue here would be the quality of the key’s action and realism.

It is a 32 polyphony (sp?) machine. As I understand polyphony from the discussions here, I am assuming that 32 voices should suffice for the use of my nine year old daughter. I am also assuming that 32 voices would suffice for the next five- eight years of my daughter’s instruction and home musical enjoyment. (If there is a future bullet, I will bite it in the future.)
Is my assumption about 32 voices being enough for a beginning to intermediate piano student correct? Or am I cheaping out with the Casio and only getting an instrument that will suffice for a couple years?

I would appreciate some experienced perspectives. Nine-year-old, money, space, 32/64, Casio/Yamaha/Roland, money, nine-year-old, pleasing sound and feel that can inspire a young player and please an old parent.

Thanks,
Paul

Sorry for duplicating Louis' post. It wasn't there, and then it was.


Paul

Check riverbark's post called 'On a budget'. I can't verify that the model was a Privia, but the price evidence is pretty strong (matches what you quoted). It was said that the keys 'clicked pretty bad'.

As for the Yamaha and Roland you mentioned, both are quite good, and 'bad clicking' would not be characteristic of either. You will need your own speakers, so hopefully that's your sort of thing.

32 notes of polyphony will be used up with 15 notes actually being played with the sustain pedal. Your daughter is going to use that up pretty quickly. 64 note polyphony should be what you shoot for pretty quickly. I know 500 bucks sounds like a pretty good deal, but there's alot of truth to that old adage about getting what you pay for.

It looks like the model your looking at is the PX-100. Looking at the spec sheet I must say, for the price it looks good on paper. JDWooWoo pointed out the clicking, which could be a problem when it comes to motivation. AS LD pointed out it only has 32 notes of polyphony. This would mean that this keyboard will quickly be outdated as your daughter begins to develop her skills. IMHO, I don't believe this keyboard would last 5-8 years and still be an asset to your daughters playing (I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 1-2 years, with two being a stretch, others here may disagree). The benefit to purchasing the PX-100 now and upgrading in about a year is that by then your daughter will be able to have an opinion on what model she prefers, instead of say, purchasing the FP-3 and come to find out that in a year you discover that she prefers the sound/touch of a P90 (of course the problem with this is that now your out the money for the PX-100).

Just for the record, I have not had the chance to play the Casio PX-100, so I'm not sure how it sounds/feels which should be a major consideration that you take into account. Although, I am looking forward to my next "piano sampling" outing, where I would like to try out Casios new line (that and the FP-2)

( edit:[/b] cleared up a double negative)

Thanks for the responses.

I was in a Casio fever, and I would likely have ordered one in. Your responses have calmed me down.

I have located a Yamaha S120 (with un-needed speakers), a S60 (32 polywhatever), and the Casio PX-100 (Sam's Club) in a nearby town. I haven't found a semi-local Roland dealer yet (for the FP-3C).

Anyway, I will have a chance to check out the Casio and the Yamaha S120. The only rub is that I am not sure what exactly I should be checking out. I don't play piano. And outside of getting drunk and cranking up Waldstien and Pathetique every so often, I don't really listen to piano. I will listen for key noise. I will see if I, or a helpful player, can create a poly-induced note drop-off (but unless Casio has come up with some type of tricky, and effective, poly-processed shortcut*, your advice about more vs. less polyphony has struck a chord.) I will bring headphones, if I remember, to make sure I am comparing pianos and not speakers (but I suspect that they all will sound good to me).

If anyone here gets a chance to play a Casio PX-100, please post. The way this is breaking out, I will likely hold off on any purchase until April (due to a mid-March trip to Disneyland )

Thanks,
Paul

· the only reason I am holding on the tentative possibility that Casio may have come up with some type of technical poly-shortcut is that I don’t understand why Casio would introduce a brand-new line of digital pianos that were short on poly. I guess I am thinking that the processors are cheap, (like computers?), so there is no reason to short-poly a piano, unless they have jigged it so that it doesn’t matter. But, on the other hand, maybe there are accountants in Japan also.

Hi,
I'm a piano teacher and was wondering if your daughter is taking keyboard lessons or piano lessons? there's a big difference in the two and that would help me answer your question.

Anna Claire is taking formal piano lessons. She just started and is about half-way through the Alfred level one series. (she has been fiddling around on little keyboards for several years)

She is currently playing on an upright piano of some type at her school. She practices at home on a 61 key Yamaha keyboard ($200 type)).

She has a fair degree of musical aptitude, and I expect she will stick with it. (I started her on guitar little over a year ago, and she plays and sings with gusto. She is a regular little folkie.)
I also have a 6-year-old boy that is also interested in music (if I could find a Lego keyboard, the hook would really be set.)

I don’t want a real piano in the house. Not if I can avoid it. We have guitars (and a couple violins) for intimacy and vibration.
It is the musical flexibility and possibility of digital keyboards and midi that I find really compelling (and totally confusing), and I would love to see my kids explore that path.

So I want my kids to be able to play piano, and to be able to do school musical stuff on conventional pianos. But at home, I want them exploring the musical galaxy.

I want it all. And I want it all for under a grand, if possible.


Thanks,
Paul

Not necessarily -- not all keyboards have stereo samples, and not all measure polyphony the same way.

But Luke's Dad is right -- 32 ain't much.

I say go for the Casio Privia PX100. The touch and feel are graded hammer action and the main piano sounds are very decent, very nearly like a piano...but not quite. The sound is comparable to many digital pianos under $1500. I have played the Privia and it is a great instrument for the price. You don't get the furniture and look of a traditional piano, but I believe Sam's Club sells the instrument for $499 with wood stand and bench. The instrument looks very modern and will fit in with Ikea furniture. It is also ideal as a portable digital piano. You can move it with ease (or take it to a gig or recital under your arm) and it is unbeatable as a weighted, hammer action MIDI controller. There are many MIDI controllers with only weighted key (non-hammer) and that are several hundreds dollars more in price.

The sustain pedal that comes with the Privia is not that great, but you buy and hook up several piano-like, pedals (soft and sustain) for around $25. The piano samples on this instrument have varying degrees of expression depending on the velocity and strength at which you strike the keys. Slow, light presses aren't bad either...but it is hard to duplicate a real piano sound exactly with this type of playing. Also 32 note polyphony is adequate for beginning piano pieces. The sustain pedal does eat up polyphony voices, but I am pretty positive it won't hinder a beginning student. (I am sure the sustain pedal will not be used continuously throughout the song.) The graded hammer action will allow your nine year old to build finger strength. I did not hear or feel any clicking when playing it at Sam's Club as one post mentioned. I say get the Privia and five years down the road, get something else when your child has progressed. It is a great $500 investment and will get your nine-year old started on the right track. The keyboard feel is very important and the Privia feels very adequate. Most $1500 digital pianos have the same features...perhaps more sounds...but you can always MIDI up a sound module or your computer for more sounds. Also know that technology will always change and five years down the road, the price and quality of digital pianos will get better. You can purchase a $1500-$2000 digital now, but it will depreciate quickly. For $500, you get a similar feeling keyboard in the hammer action department and that is really the important thing at this moment...the feel. The sounds are comparable also. Again you cannot go wrong for $499.

Good luck in your quest for a digital piano. I have also played the Yamaha Series (YDP113, YDP223) and the action on the Privia is just as good. The Casio is unbeatable at that price!

Thanks everyone,

I have talked a piano playing friend to accompany me on my piano trip. Working on a convenient date.

Concerning the PX-100. It does not have a line out. But it does have two headphone outlets.

I want to be able to use my powered speakers (EV SxA 100s). Can I use a cord that has a single tip and sleeve stereo jack on one end and splits to two mono jacks on the other, and then plug the stereo tip and sleeve into the headphone socket, and plug the two mono jacks into my speakers line in?

If I only want to use one powered speaker, can I run a tip and sleeve on one end into a single mono plug, or go mono to mono and dump everything into the left channel?

The Casio PX-300 will be out in about a month, and it will have a line out, a LCD display, and about a 100 extra voices. It will cost $100 more.

I am comfortable with a line out. I really like the idea of a display.

But the extra voices don’t hold much appeal to me, as my limited experience has given me the impression that after ten voices or so they all begin to sound a lot alike. And while the extra hundred dollars isn’t life threatening, part of the appeal of the SX-100 is its sensible economy, and it seems a shame to fritter away its strong suit.


????

Paul

epaul,

It is ideal to split the stereo signal as you indicated when playing back on stereo equipment. For a mono keyboard amp, I would take the stereo signal and merge them to a mono signal. Radio Shack has these adapters as does any local musical instrument dealer. You might also be able to get away from having to split/merge your signals and just use a mono audio cable. I guess this depends on if the sound you are playing is in stereo or not. If it is not, then it would be okay to use a mono audio cable.

On another note, I tried out the Casio PX-300 today at Sam Ash music. It is exactly like the PX-100 except you get more sounds. Apart from the piano samples, I was not impressed by the other sounds...they are not multi-sampled as well as the piano sound. I also tried out a Roland F90 ($699) and I must say the piano sound is mellower, and more melodic than the Casio's. Just a different piano sound. The Casio's piano is more upfront to me...still a very excellent piano sound in my opinion.

Quotes by Drone:

Please, explain why this is a good idea? Answer: In my opinion, It's not that simple. Frankly, I don't understand why you would want to change a "sterio" sample into a "mono" sample unless you simply weren't recording in "sterio".

This post means nothing, as I've had (more than three and less than six) drinks tonight.

I'm with you Zymtil, I don't know why you'd want to sum to mono unless you have only one speaker.

And one more thing...
Be careful when connecting the output (headphone or otherwise) of a keyboard to a home stereo receiver. The input of the stereo was not designed to accomodate the variable output of a keyboard and can/will create distortion that could overload (blow) your speakers.

I asked my guitar forum about using the headphone-out as a line out, using a cord with a stereo plug at one end (tip, ring, sleeve) and two mono jacks at the other. I would then plug the stereo jack into the headphone out and the each mono jack into a powered spealer.

Two of the answers are copied below:

#1 “The cable you describe, stereo on one end and 2 monos on the other, is the same cable most sound men use for channel inserts on their mixer. They are commonly called an 'insert cable' and are readily available. The headphone jack is not a line level, it is actually a low powered speaker output.(headphones are speakers). It will be a hotter signal than a line output. It should still work if you keep the headphone output volume low and control your overall volume on the powered speakers”
(I will the speaker's gain knobs to control the headphone output at the other end. PT)


#2 “Paul, What will work well is what's called an 'insert cable' like a Hosa STP 204.

www.hosatech.com/hosa/pro...p-200.html

stereo 1/4 on one end to 2 single 1/4 plugs, giving you the left and right channels out

These things cost me about $3.10

Don't use a mono plug on the headphone jack because it will short the right channel to ground.
Most gear is designed to to live through that but it's safer to avoid that…”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drone’s response about transforming the headphone-out signal back to mono was in response to my question about exactly that. I was just wondering if I could get by with just one of my powered speakers hooked up to the piano in case I want to use the other one somewhere else. (I am getting sick of hauling stuff around. If I can get by with one speaker, I only haul one speaker.)


My current thinking.

If I get the Casio PX 100, (which doesn’t have a line-out), I will begin by just using good headphones and the built-in speakers. If that is good enough, then I won’t risk blowing my daughter’s ears out with my Evs.

If I use the EVs, I will control the “slightly hotter” headphone-out signal by lowering the gain somewhat on the EVs. I will also treat the volume knob on the EVs as a governor to insure safe db levels (and maybe soften the horns by covering them with a ‘stylish’ drop-cloth (tie-died or paisley?) or by aiming the horns at the wall and bouncing them back).

If I only want to use one speaker, I will run the insert cable’s mono leads through a little mixer and use the mixer’s line out to the speaker.


Everything is still subject to change,
Paul

Just bought a PX 100 and I like it - it has 88 notes, hammer action and lots of features, for a good price - to get a similar one from a compatitor brand, it usually costs double the price or even more.

Conan

Glad you like it! Just out of curiosity, what other brands/models did you try out, and how did they compare?

I've recently bought a Px-300, it's my first digital piano.
The ratings IMO are
- Sound/expressiveness: 7
- Touch/key weight: 9 (nice scaled hammer action)
- Features: 9
- Design: 10 (compact)

Other models I've recently heard are:
Yamaha P-60 (better sound than Casio)
Korg SP-200 (didn't impressed me)
Suzuki SS-200

I would like to have a Yamaha P-90, I didn't heard it (heard the P-60) but I suppose it's better, besides its 64-note polyphony.

IMO: 32 NOTES OF POLIPHONY (LIKE PX-300) ISN'T ENOUGHT (IT SAYS '32' BUT IT'S REALLY 16, BECAUSE THE STEREO SAMPLING, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT)

I tried Korg SP-500, it was good but I think the one I got had a problem, some of the keys start to click. I didn't like Yamaha (not very cheap and not many features, besides their sales people are too pushy) - Kawai had nice sound, but again not cheap and their sales people are too pushy). Korg seems to be good, but it looks like they just started this line of digital with hammer action, I'd give a year or 2 to produce better producs. I also tried Roland, they sound good too

Hi, I'm new here.

I did a search on a digi piano that I'm considering purchasing and found this topic.

The Casio PX 100

I would like to know from those who have bought or play this instrument how do you like it, especially now that you have had it for a while.

Are they in limitations with the polyphony.

Good hammer actioned keyboard for the price, with light weight and slim.

I did an experiment on mine about polyphony: pressing the sustain pedal and hit a bass note hard. Then play steps from middle C and up. Sounded to me that the bass note got cut out when I hit the 28th note. That's Grand Piano 1. Can we call it 28 note polyphony? There could be various schemes to handle polyphony such as making bass notes last longer than others in the design that this kind of experiment may not count much. Other voices do not sound stereo but appear to have more polyphony by my experiment.

For my kind of music ( mainly classical and intermediate level ), I haven't found polyphony being an issue. My 11 year old is more advanced. He played Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu on it and said that it sounded very good. I took out some unabridged classical literature and counted notes under the sustain sign --- most should be ok. Obviously the more polyphony the better --- sometimes one may wish to have more creative pedaling as well.

I played quite a few of PX-100's and was surprised to find that there were big differences in firmness in action. Using Yamaha P90 as reference, some feel significantly lighter than the Yamaha and some more firm than the Yamaha. The actions are good in either case but I am suspecting that they may have made the actions firmer recently, as a new PX-400R that I tried had the same firmer action.

The headphone output has much better voice quality --- as expected since the small speakers surely form the bottleneck of the sound reproduction. Also, the noise level of the headphone out is sufficiently low that it's quite suitable for amplification.

What about Casio AP 38? 64 voices, real piano look and feel, sound decent because of acoustic, and kids think it looks closer to acoustic piano too. It has 3 pedals so good for pedal exercises too. It may be around 699. PX 400 is my next choice though.

I have Casio PX-400R, bought it as soon as it's available in Malaysia. Though cheaper in its range, I was overwhelmed by the following :

1. Good graded hammer action - it does resemble the acoustic piano in some way.

2. Excellent piano tone especially the Stereo Piano sample.

3. Excellent MIDI capabilities with Smartmedia crd and direct connection to my Dell's notebook via USB.

4. Improved sound compare to the PX-100 & PX-300, deeper bass, louder ...

I have tried Yamaha CLP 115 / 120/ 150 and 170 as well as P60, P90 and P120. For mere Pop pianist, I don't see the point of spending more on those. Though, there are the prefered brand.

Try this one out, you'll be surprise. Casio is out to compete now, finally.

Congratulations Meg on your purchase of PX-400R --- it surely is an impressive instrument for what I saw.

I've PM'ed you for some further impressions. Let me know when you have time.

Hi Guys

I have been the owner of a "casio px100" for about 8 months now. The love affair has slightly mellowed over the 8 months but, only because I bought a Yamaha CLP 170.

I shall explain...I am in the fortunate position of owning my own business (a gym) and I have the opportunity to practise at work (when it is quiet during the day) and the casio met my needs...hammer action, 88 weighted keys and portable... I tried it in the shop and I was very impressed.

I have really gotten into this piano thang so much now that I wanted a digital piano for home aswell and I fell even more in love with the Yamaha CLP170 that I tried(I think it is an awesome piano despite any criticisms I hear on here?)


Since buying the Yammie the casio cannot compete...but, I still love it...it is great as a second portable piano...but I do kinda wish I had bought the next model up with the audio outs...because one day I want to play gigs...and maybe I should have bought the Yamaha stage piano instead?

The Yamaha has a much heavier action than the casio which I now much prefer ...amazing that what once felt heavy doesn't anymore

With regards to the polyphony I really haven't had much problem with it and I do play some long sustained runs...the only time it looses it is when played with two voices on long sustained runs.

In 8 months it has never missed a beat and I play it every day.


I'm Still very happy with it


Just one question if I wanted to turn it into a stage piano rather than buying another keyboard would it be worth considering a midi module and how do they work?


regards


Lee