Just come across from Adult Beginners Forum where it was suggested I post my request in this section. On that forum my topic was "An OLD BEGINNER wants to learn music"

Here is that question please.

"FOLLOW UP TO MY LAST POSTING...

Michael Anderson of Pianomagic responded very helpfully to some comments I sent to him in the last couple of days. At which time he mentioned that whilst my Yamaha PSR-300 will be fine for a very short while, to learn to play the BIG sounds a SUSTAIN PEDAL would be required.

My electronic keyboard does not have such a pedal or a connection allowing one to be joined to it. So my wife and I have decided to invest a little money in a digital piano sufficient for my learning purposes, (we are retired and do not have by any means the funds required to purchase really good equipment).

This is where I have asked Mike to advise me if he has a few moments spare and I would ask anyone here too to help on this one before we reach a decision.

I have had a look round the internet here in the UK and for the only funds we can spare I felt something called the Yamaha NP-30S 76 Key Portable grand keyboard in Silver would suffice. Can be found here http://www.dv247.com/keyboards-and-midi/...n-silver--42874

I have a support stand able to be used currently at home, so the only additional items are the SUSTAIN PEDAL and THE KPA3 Yamaha power supply, which with delivery brings the total cost to £229.02.

Look forward to your comments when it is convenient for you.

Many thanks.
Dave"

Thanks for having a look.

Here, the Casio costs less then the Yamaha N30. The Casio has better weighted keys and 88 of them. Maybe you can find a UK retailer with different prices?

You can learn on un-weighted keys. Many people here think a digital piano should perfectly emulate an acoustic. But, no a DP can be valid instrument in and of itself. Very light action keys are actually easier to play.

The problem comes in when a student wants to play an acoustic piano, and they learn on unweighted keys. Then the fingers aren't strong enough (or trained) in the right way. Even organists will practice on an acoustic piano to keep their chops up.

The NP-30 is a superb piano, giving you 76 graded soft touch keys, and stereo piano sound.

It is an extremely popular instrument for beginners, as well as people who have been playing piano for some time, due to it's attractive features, and excellent price.

Did you know that you can also get the cabinet in black as well as silver?

It only weighs 12 lbs, so it's easy to move from room to room.

One feature I really liked on the Yamaha NP-30 is the dual voice feature. This means that you can play two voices at the same time. My favorite is piano and strings. And it is very easy to do.

Highly recommended.

It is a particularly rugged instrument...my friend bought one, and she has three kids; two are taking lessons, and the 2-year old is playing avant-garde improvisations that only she understands.

It's held up remarkably well...no issues whatsoever.

Snazzy

Hi all

Thanks for advice and the full detail you went into for me.

I have come across the following link which I understand although the Casio PX-120 is discontinued and not available too easily here in UK a few places still have the odd one or two.

What do you think? Here is the link I am looking at:

DOLPHIN MUSIC in UK at http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/34416-casio-px-120-dark.html

All the best. Getting there..!!
Dave

PS I understand that the NP-30S does not have internal speakers. This was pointed out on the other section of the forum I am in. Found this to be important - hence Forum is a great source of help before I pay good money.

Hi Dave,

Whoever told you the NP-30S was misinformed. The NP-30S has a speaker at each end, so you will hear your piano in lovely stereo sound.

Here are the specs.

Main Amplifiers: 6 W + 6 W

Speakers (12 cm X 6 cm) x2

The NP-30S is beautiful little piano, and I think you will be very happy with it.

Good luck,

Snazzy

I'm not sure what the market is in the UK, but around here, one can buy a new Casio PX-120 for $499 USD. That's not a sale price. The website you referred to, eastcoast, lists this at £ 374.99, which would be about $624 USD. Not much of a deal there on a discontinued item, IMO.

My students that bought the Casio PX-120, by the way, really enjoy it. But maybe shop around for a better price. Perhaps there's someone local you can deal with?

Locally in Cleethorpes and Grimsby there is only I think one dealer that stocks such items, and they as far as I know, do not have that item. In UK it includes of course the currently 15% VAT and maybe BECAUSE it is discontinued and perhaps a reasonable item, it is in short supply but a number of people will seek it out. Perhaps the dealers know this. Therefore could it be SUPPLY and DEMAND situation? Perhaps deals here in UK for this sort of product are not so easily available.

I am at this stage trying to decide between the quality of the two items I am looking at and thinking perhaps the extra money will be repaid over time.

Just don't know at moment. Thanks for posting though.
Dave

Well, before you buy, be sure to go try them out somewhere. You don't want to make a purchase like this without doing that step.

I understand what you are saying Morodiene but on this East Coast there is very little place to go with only one local dealer. Also I don't take to driving long journeys these days as well!

Most of the time I will just have to read reports and forums and purchase via the internet with say just 4 years guarantee which they give me.

Thanks again.
Dave

Got back in touch with that guy who mentioned about the speakers and he said yes you are right and he had got mixed up on that one.

However he did make one comment which was this:

"2x6W is going to be a pretty puny sound" and perhaps I would still need external speakers.

So there is that also to consider...!!!
Dave

Many on-board speakers aren't really enough for a great sound. If you have a stereo amp and decent speakers, you can use a line out from the keyboard easy enough. I personally wouldn't necessarily make this aspect a deal-killer, but it may be important for you. My guess is a keyboard with better on-board speakers will generally cost more because it will have more bells and whistles too.

Morodiene

Good analysis and advice. Take on board before I purchase.
Thanks.
Dave

Dave,

The NP-30's speaker system is the near-field type, and is designed to sound best to the player seated directly in front of it.

The amplification is fine for that application.

It is not intended to give "room filling concert sound"...it is an inexpensive "personal" piano.

The piano sound is exceptionally good for the price; Yamaha uses AWM Stereo Piano Samples.

The other perks, like layering, reverb, transposition etc. make it an even greater value.

After seeing it endure the torture test my friend's kids put the NP-30 through, I was impressed at it ruggedness, despite it's very light weight of 12 lbs.

Definitely a good investment.

Snazzy

Snazzy

Thanks for info. Got it!! That is all I want it for, to sound OK to me sitting directly in front of it.

All the best.
Dave

Dave...I just sold myself on the NP-30...I'll have one tomorrow.

I'm so embarrassed...I have no willpower.

Snazzy

Since I haven't heard the NP-30 I can't definitely comment on the sound from the built-in speakers. I will say this just for context. My first Yamaha digital had similarly sized and similarly placed speakers and it certainly didn't sound exceptionally good to me at the time. Just for comparison, the current top-of-the-line Yamaha stage piano (the CP-300) has 2x30W speakers built in; they're okay, but I wouldn't want to listen to them for an extended period.

Pianos are a particularly demanding sound source for most speakers. I currently use a pair of Yamaha HS50 50W near-field monitors about 2 feet from each ear in my desktop listening and mixing environment. I'd like more sound than even that (but I don't have the room). On the other hand, sound is an individual thing, and I think you shouldn't let speakers be the deciding factor in a digital piano. You can always upgrade the listening environment later.

The critical factors (to me) are touch (the keyboard) and the quality of the piano samples (which has nothing to do with the speakers of course).

Of course, everyone's MMV.

I use/own a CP-300, and it's speakers are a lot better than 99% of the console pianos I have tried.

EQ'ing the CP-300 properly makes a big difference in the sound.

I'm pretty sure Dave just wants to sit in front of the piano and please his own ears...the NP-30's speakers will do fine for his application.

Snazzy

i think snazzy sold me on the NP-30 as well lol

Fortunately, we all get to please our own ears (at least to the limit we can afford).

Snazzy, since you since seem to have experience with both, I'm interested in your opinion of the non-weighted NP-30 keyboard versus the feel on the CP-300 Graded Hammer Action keyboard.

i can tell u that after looking at prices of digital pianos here in the UK, we get shafted big time verses americans. some europeans get stiffed worse than us. the newer casio px130 sells for $500 in USA, but in the UK is £539. how they can get away with that is a mystery to me.

Apparently the price differences in Australia are even worse.

Snazzy

I'm sure it has to do with where they are manufactured. If it's an import, then there's lots of tariffs and such to cover.

I was speaking on the phone today to an online music company representative and I brought up some of the comments from the forum, basically that here in the UK we do not seem to get as they in the USA call it a "deal". He asked me what I meant by that.

When I remarked about the $500 versus converted to £374.99 including VAT for the PX-120 he conceded that in the USA prices for such equipment are always somewhat less. Not much he can do about that he said because their company had reduced it from £599.99 down to the lowest that they could economically get away with and survive here in the UK.

We have to just put up with it to a certain extent or go elsewhere and perhaps get a slightly lower price for a DEMO model. Or just don't buy. Personally I am one of these people who will not take chances with DEMO models - but that is just me!

Dave

Hi all

At the end of the day it is up to me to make a decision following all the very very helpful comments made by the forum members to assist me in my choice.

Another factor here in UK is that the VAT is going to revert back on 1st January 2010 to 17.50% from the current 15% which has been applicable for some time now.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/BeginnersGuideToTax/DG_4015895

My final choice was to be between the Yamaha NP-30S and the Casio PX-120 Dark at http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/34416-casio-px-120-dark.html and I have come down on the side of the Casio piano. £374.99.

Although it is a little over our budget of £250 I feel the Scale Hammer Action Keyboard and its 88 weighted keys with 128 polyphony will probably pay for itself if I get on well with my learning. What I want to avoid is perhaps paying less for the NP-30S and then maybe feeling I needed to get a little more advanced piano and being unable to afford more money.

So there it is folks – tomorrow I will go up to Dolphin Music I think and organise them to send me one of their 3 remaining PX-120s.

Thanks for all your help to date but in the end it is my responsibility - “fingers crossed” - but not whilst learning to play!

Dave

Congrats Dave, let us know what you think when you get it!

Wonderful news, Dave...congratulations on your decision.

It was a tough one....and obviously, a close one, too.

Looking forward to your initial impressions, as well as your continuing opinions as you grow with the instrument and your music.

Snazzy

The USA to UK prices are a joke.

The Yamaha P155 was around $1000.00, but buying one here cost well over £1000.

Since when was it worse than 1:1 for the pound??

What can you do about it though. If you want it, you have to pay it

that exactly it. companies set their prices as high as 'the market will bear' regardless of exchange rates. the british consumer is just willing to pay the high prices sadly. i just ordered the casio px-120 from rockign rooster for £345 with the stand and pedal. its an ex-demo model tho.

You and I are making purchase at about the same time. In the end I decided to purchase today, the PX-120 with stand, plus the casio sp-20 sustain pedal, BUT from a different supplier than I had indicated earlier. Details follow:

Gear4Music.com in UK at link:

PIANO
http://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Casio-Privia-PX-120-Digital-Piano-and-free-stand/7JD

SUSTAIN PEDAL
http://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Casio-SP-20-Sustain-Pedal/7JP

Total a fair bit more than I set out to pay £428.99

DELIVERY TO BE on Tuesday 8 Dec 09

UPDATE ON PIANOMAGIC lessons
Registered with them on 4 December - so off we go!

May I wish you every success with your purchase and I sincerely hope that all goes well for you.
Dave

Hi all

Just thought I would let you know that yesterday our Casio PX-120 and free stand plus the sustain pedal arrived via FedEx.

My wife and I spent the afternoon assembling all the pieces. Although at first we had to read the instructions many times it was not the fault of the literature. More that we were not familiar with the logic of how the piano and stand were to join together.

In fact looking back made us appreciate the superb quality of both instrument and stand together with the clever way it all fitted together.

As appreciation of the way you helped me right from the outset I have put a small page with a link to this forum and Pianomagic plus SeaSideLee on my website.

If you want to pop along an have a look it can be found at:

http://www.artukdigital.com/pianostudy_link/index.html

You will see how we had fun in the pictures as we assembled bits and pieces. Also originally we had intended to purchase ONLY the piano and were going to balance it on some plywood! I think in the end we reached the best decision in purchasing it with the FREE stand...!

All the best and now to study.
Dave