The SuperNatural piano sound by Roland?

Hi,

It would be great to hear some comments about the new SuperNatural piano sound by Roland. So if you have tried it yet, share your experinces with us. Comments about the HP300-series are also welcome of course

If it helps, here's a clip on the HP307 which has the SuperNatural piano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL2lsQD0BwA

Greg.

Better yet, someone please (please!) upload a DPBSD MP3!

I'm SuperNaturally interested in that one!

I have an HP-307 on order and it is supposed to arrive by the end of the month (we'll see), but if I can figure out how to capture the data for your DPBSD project, then I'll surely give it a shot!

Regards

In that video, the hoarse-voiced gal (how many packs did she smoke that day?) says something about the key action being a "triple strike mechanism" which to me is just confusing terminology, as triple strike generally means 3 velocity layers. And saying it uses V-Piano technology just makes me scratch my head when they are discussing a sampler. Wah?

I also heard her say "no looping"! Bring it on...

The harpsichord decay sounded really looped and fake. The pianos sound nice though.

Gotta hand it to Roland, they can actually talk the talk.

Yeah, I noticed the triple-strike comment. I assumed they meant "triple sensor". I too like the piano sound a lot - very expressive, going from warm and mellow for soft playing to thin and metallic for forte playing.

Greg.

Does anyone have a cross section of the PHA-III action we can compare to that of the latest from Yamaha and Kawai?

I have the HP-307 at home, I'll try to record and upload DPBSD later this week, unless someone will do it earlier.

Great - thanks!

I agree, Dewster needs to test this thing against Roland's pretty bold claims.

rd-700gx supernatural piano sound - anyone received it? Can you shoot us a review? thanks,
-Tom

Audio demos too!

Isn't shipping until March 5 now. My Sweetwater dude called me this afternoon with the update.

A few days ago I got a chance to play Roland HP-307 that has the supernatural piano sound, and I must tell you that I was very pleased. It is a big improvement from my RD-700SX.

Probably triple strike refers to keyboard mechanism - greater repetition.

I've just played it and compared it with the V-Piano. I got the impression that while the V-Piano feels much better and you can control the sound better and be more expressive, the HP 307's sound is richer and a little better. However, I still favor the V-Piano over the 307, it's just more fun to play.

Just curious what you mean by "feels much better" since I understand both to have the same PHAIII keyboard? [Not that I can afford v-piano, but it looks like a neat product.]

Well I own the an RD-700GX and though it's doesn't have the new PHAIII keyboard, it does have the PHAII which was/is remarkably impressive compared to what else is out, especially vs. the CP300/S-90ES/XS.
Yeah after I bought my RD-700GX last year, I went and played on the V-Piano for about an hour and a half at a local music store. I was immediately impressed with the touch and responsiveness for an electric piano. Roland has done a bang up job on it's line of digital pianos. I'm not sure the V-Piano is worth its steep price though. It should retail for $2499. They'd sell out of them for that price.

BTW, anyone know if Roland will offer the same tri-pedal set, that comes with the V-Piano, for the RD-700GX??

I didn't mean the actual tactile response of the keyboard, I couldn't even tell the difference between PHA II and PHA III when i compared the two, I meant the V-Pianos responsiveness. How small difference in touch result in small difference in tone. I find it a bit hard to discribe. I would maybe say you're more connected to the piano and to the music it produces (I know, that sentence is nonsense, but maybe you get what I mean). You can just be more expressive and thus playing it feels different from playing other digital pianos.

I agree. There is a big difference in the sense-response-sense feedback loop when playing the VPiano compared side-by-side playing the HP-307, despite both having the PHA-III keybed. Much less difference then when I play my Korg SP-200 with its on board sounds compared to connecting it to PianoTeq, but the difference is there. Also, for me, the HP-307 feels more "hollow": as if the keyboard were mounted on a folded cardboard packing box compared to the more solid feeling of the VPiano on a good stand.

Does the HP-307 come with supernatural piano standard? Or do you have to get a separate card (like you would in the rd700gx)?

Hi,

Yes, the HP-307 comes with the 'supernatural' sound, so you wouldn't have to buy anything extra.

By the way, take a look at the following website and you'll see that it indicates that a number of other products also have 'supernatural', so it is already extending beyond the HP line (e.g. DP-990F, etc...).

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=40

Just curious whether it is always noticable/audible that the V-Piano is fully modelled vs. the HP307 which is at least partly based on sampling. Or does this only mean that the V-Piano has more flexibility in sound sculpting? Are there any insights available that explain the technical differences in Supernatural implementation?

The v-piano provides additional configuration options for 'sound' compared to the "Piano Designer" in the HP-307 (I don't think the HP-305 or HP-301 provide access to Piano Designer).

I don't have any first-hand experience with v-piano, though. Maybe someone else can answer your specific question.

Having played both the V-Piano and the HP-307, I must say the latter sounded better to me...especially the mid-range notes...still a little thin, but BIG improvement.

Snazzy

I agree with Snazzy...

I've owned a V-Piano and now a Roland HP-307 and a Supernatural equipped RD-700GX. For what it's worth I marginally prefer the 307 to the RD.

The V-Piano has a phenomenal range of parameters to adjust and is a fantastically dynamic, expressive piano. However, the sound is rather processed sounding and synthetic in the mid-range. They have updated it and the update was an improvement (they added four new patches) but the basic tonal character of the thing did not really change.

I think Supernatural is effectively samples but with some modelled elements. I think the point is that the modelling is there to amend the BEHAVIOUR of the piano, not its SOUND if that makes sense. So it promises (and delivers) no audible looping or velocity layers. I assume they have some different sort of sample selection/playback technology. It is very effective.

However, the tonal character is identifiably Roland...not at all like the V-Piano to my ears, but Roland nonetheless and it is the basic tonal character of any piano that is the key to whether you like it or not.

I think the ideal product would be something using V-Piano technology (ie, pure modelling) but with a more organic sounding timbre.

Cheers,

Steve

Well said, Steve, and that "tonal character" that we each look for in a digital, could be result of many things, from the pianos we grew up listening to on recordings, to the one we learned to play on, to the quality we dream of having.

I wish I could graft the HP-307 sound on to the CP-series warm CF, and have it all as simple to use, portable, and as inexpensive as a Yamaha P-155.

Of course, they way things are moving so fast these past years, with the introduction first, of sample playing, then physical modeling, and now, the various hybrids of both, we are seeing a new breed of instruments that already make using software pianos unnecessary, or at least much less an option.

The Avant Grand is exploring even more new ideas.

Already the HP-307, CP-1/5 are becoming the standards other pianos from Kawai and Korg are being measured against, and it won't be long before they catch up, and maybe even surpass the aforementioned instruments.

Certainly it will be a buyer's paradise, and all this competition is only benefiting the players, both newbies and pros.

Snazzy

After installing the supernatural piano kit expansion board on a rd700gx, would it would very similar to a Roland HP-307?
Unfortunately i can't try out either since no one around me carries the HP-307 or a rd700gx with the expansion card installed.
The HP 307 default piano tone sounds very good ( i personally don't like the expressive grand on the rd700gx all that much....Grand RD is better in my opinion)

I think you'll find some very useful information at the website below, with several hands-on reviews of the SN expansion card:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/?action=show_all&fid=34

WOW thanks!

losthorizon777 -

I don't much like the expressive grand on the RD either. When the SN upgrade is installed on the RD, Grand Piano 1 fires up...and it is a SN Expressive Grand...not my cup of tea. However, SN Grand Piano 2 and 4 are in my opinion SN Superior Grands that also feature much enhanced bass performance. These are very similar to the HP-307 Grand voices. All 307 voices are very similar, ie have the same tonal signature. I like the 307 voices and I like the RD SN Grand Piano 4 too.

With all of these voices (on RD and 307) I adjust key touch offset to somewhere between medium and heavy as this reduces the tendency for the upper mids to produce a harsher metallic twang at velocities that are a little too low.

If you like the Grand RD (which is the same basic sample as Mellow Piano and 600 Grand) then you are basically hearing the mighty old RD-600 piano voice. A pleasure to play but not at all the last word in realism. This basic voice has not been Supernatural'd.

Cheers,

Steve

Id be happy to do it although ive no Idea what a DPBSD is

I have a new HPI 7F with what you need.

If its easy i,ll do it.

I know how to record etc guide me

I'd be happy to replicate that on my HPi-6F as well, but I don't expect any difference from HPi-7F... (and I guess HPi6F = HP305 and HPi7F=HP307).

Kish do you have MSN i want to ask you a few questions

Sure, sent you a pm

I can't register on that page!

I was able to login to the forum on my first attempt. As far as registration goes, send the admin an email if you are having troubles registering.