Finally get to record my own piano!

[EDIT: Old recording removed. Moved on to THIS THREAD with new recording. ][/b]

This is a test clip from my first do-it-myself home audio recording session.

Equipment:

• TWO (2) MXL 990 microphones
• ONE (1) M-Audio AudioBuddy pre-amp
• ONE (1) Griffin Technology's iMic USB Audio Interface (that's basically my A/D converter)
• ONE (1) Apple PowerBook G4 with SoundStudio doing the audio capture and iTunes doing the MP3 conversion afterwards.
• Passive components: assorted cables, microphone stands, etc.

I basically followed Dan M's playbook when deciding what recording gear to buy. Excepting the PowerBook and the iMic that I already own, all the other equipment listed above are brand new. They cost me around $250 total including shipping, and I think I splurged a bit on the mic cables too! The iMic can be had today for around $40, I believe. (Thanks, Dan M!)

Piano: 1992 Kawai RX-A (197cm or roughly 6'6"), recently tuned!

Microphones were positioned at about 2~3 feet above and away from piano on the curved side and were about 2 feet apart from each other.

No EQ, no artificial reverb, no nothing -- basically no effects and no post-processing except MP3 conversion.

File format: MP3 with VBR roughly at 192 kb/s on average.

The piece is my own on-the-fly transcription (i.e., winging) of an oldie composed by SUN Yi whose title roughly translates to "The Moon, My Heart." My focus for this first recording session was to figure out the basics of how to work the recording equipment. As such, the music chosen was quite tame in terms of pitch and dynamic range -- and something simple enough that I could frequently glance at the recording setup as I was playing. (Wife was wrapping Christmas gifts in the living room and some of the foil- or paper-wrapping sound was captured in the clip too.)

From taking the audio equipment out of their boxes to capturing the clip below took about two hours.

[EDIT: Deleted link to old recording.]

Comments and suggestion on how to make better audio recordings are welcome and will be greatly appreciated as I will be working on recording stuff with wider pitch and dynamic ranges. Thanks in advance, if not for your comments/suggestions, then for your indulgence.

A nice Teresa Teng song. I also have a powerbook G4, etc. Maybe I will try your solution one of these days. Thanks for posting it.

That is an absolutely lovely, graceful melody. If you ever happen to print the sheet music, I'd love it.

I really liked the sound you were getting. In some areas, you really laid into the bass notes and that completely dominated the sound field. So I would think a little multi band compression would be helpful.
It sounds like your mic placement was really good, the clarity was awesome. I might try experimenting with it however, just because that's what engineers do. Mark your favorite spots.
And lastly, I'd work on developing your stereo field. There was lots of material there, that would've been over the top, if you'd have worked on the stereo imaging.
Your first recording?? doesn't show, you've done this before, admit it.

Ax,

Absolute beautiful sound of your RX-A !!!

The familiar song brought back the memory that when last time I was in Taiwan I visited Dun's tomb. The tomb site was NEVER without flowers. Also good speakers were installed that her music and singing gently soothed the well-wishers. It was unforgettable.

That was an awesome recording. I've heard that micing a piano was a lot of work and hassle, but you've made it seem easy, with great results.


----

Axtremus :

A very pleasant, well-balanced sound. Thank you for sharing! I enjoyed listening.

Regards,

Great recording and playing Ax!

What Norbert said...

CJ Howord,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. If I may ask a few follow-up questions,

(1) what is the "stereo field"?

(2) what variables should I play with to affect the "stereo field"?

(3) what is "multi-band compression" and do I need extra software or equipment to get that capability?

(4) I am not too happy with the bass... it's not as clear or articulated as the mid-range, very different from the life sound. Is that what the "mluti-band compression" will improve? Is it a matter of placement or are there more important variables I should play with? The microphones have a innate roll-off curve at the bass end and rated only down to 30 Hz. Are the microphones the limitations here?

As for my prior recording experience -- I hired professionals to record me before, and I have used a digital video camcorder to record myself before (sample HERE ). The camcorder route serves certain instructional purpose, but it has its limitations (to put it gently ). But to use a pair of microphones and a pre-amp -- that's really the first time I do it myself. I have never touched a pre-amp before, not even the pre-amps of the recording engineers I hired in the past.

Thanks again.

---

Me, do you know what the "official" English translation of that song's title is? Thanks.

---

Apple,

Some one posted graphical images of the sheet music HERE . It won't be the same as what I played (not even in the same key, and I was "playing by ear" and winging it on the fly). But the the basic melody and harmony are all there. Hope it helps.

AndrewG, thanks! That's a song made popular by the Taiwan pop star Theresa Teng.

---

Spin Doctor -- thanks, the hard part will come when I push for the extreme edges of the pitch and dynamic ranges. The music I really want to record cannot be satisfied with the settings I used for that short clip. There's still much for me to learn and experiment.

---

BruceD, thanks.

---

markjpcs - thanks, but Norbert have not post here... that's CJHoward using the same avatar as Norbert.

Norbert is my idol, the avatar is in his Honor.


Axtremus,

I'm really a novice where recording is concerned. These Guys will be able to really help you out. just like there is a piano forum, there are over a dozen recording forums.

But to elaborate. A compressor is an audio processor that evens out the level of a piece of music. Most commonly on singers with poor mic technique. Sometimes they are standing too close to the mic, and sometimes to far away. The compressor will lower the level on parts that are too loud, and raise the level on parts that are too soft. all automatically, according to parameters you set. A multiband compressor will do this same process, only it'll target certain frequencies, and handle them differently, allowing you to compress the lower frequencies, leaving the mid-range alone, and raising the level of the high frequencies.

Stereo imaging, is just a way of making the playback of a piece of music sound as though you are sitting in a particular space. For instance when listening to pop music, you'll here the snare in the right speaker, the highhat's to your left, and the toms move from right to left. The same thing can be done to the piano, making it seem like the listener is sitting at the bench.

If you really want to get "professional" results, then you can expect to spend as much time learning and practicing recording as you do playing the piano now.
In my opinion, you have gotten very good results as is, you can get very good demo quality work (which is good enough to put out a holiday CD for family and friends, and darn sure good enough for a few holiday mp3s) with a little more effort. But just like any other hobby, it can be an endless rabbit hole.

What AndrewG referred to ("Dun") is the same person ("Teng"), Cantonese verses Mandarin.

That's not right! Use a different avatar newbie!

Axtremus,

Stereo Field: This term is often used by audio engineers to describe the quality of the sound. A good stereo field would give you a good imagination of the recourded sound source. Factors to play with would be: mic distance from the sound source, spacing between the mics, type of mic (cardioid vs. omni-directional). For instance a mic position with both mics very close will give a narrow stereo field but on the other hand no artificial "hole in the middle" (listen to the music via two loudspeakers, close your eyes and try to figure out if you can hear something in the middle of the two speakers or if there's nothing). A wider mic position will give a much better impression of the room, but can lead certain artefacts. For instance the treble or bass coming too strong out of on speaker without leaving an impression of the room. When experimenting with mic placement you should try to find a mic position which gives a good image of the piano, but is not so close that the room is inaudible.

As for the bass you might have to deal with the limitations of your piano (no offense, I'm the proud owner of a KG-2 which is considerably shorter than your piano). I have the impression that for recording purposes pianos in the 7 foot class are the best. I think the clarity of the bass which is needed for a good sound on a recording is not something a shorter piano is really able to provide, although it might sound perfectly OK in the room.

Unfortunately I can't download your MP3 because the limit is exceeded. I'll try it again tomorrow.

Best regards,
Jens

No offense taken at all. At least I know it's not something in the recording setup and won't waste too much time chasing something that isn't there. I'll still play with it to see how far I can get to obtain a clearer bass with what I have, but certain won't obsess over it given what you wrote above.

[EDIT: Deleted link to old recording.][/b]

CJHoward, thanks for your response above. I'll have to take some time to digest what you and Jens wrote and learn/experiment more. Thanks!

I'd stay away from compression of any kind if at all possible. Get your sounds through mic/preamp selection, mic placement, room treatment and playing. Compression usually sounds like garbage on a piano.

Ax, that was very beautiful. I am envious of your skill. I could easily imagine Ken Burns using that music as the foundation for a documentary.

Nice sounding piano as well!

Nice playing and nice piano sound, Ax. Wow, i need to learn how to do that for my piano....

Hi Ax,
Sounds great! I'm impressed with both your playing and how quickly you got great results recording. Very impressive - nice music too.

The only thing I would do at this point with the recording is clean up the noise floor. I hear some crackling, not sure if it's a fireplace or is from the audio chain. Secondly there is some low level buzz, sounds like 60 Hz garbage your picking up. I know the Audio Buddy is very quiet, and with the mic's that close to the piano you must be getting a huge amount of gain from those MXL's, so it must be the iMic.

The USB standard doesn't allow a designer to put enough capacitance at the end of the 5V rail to really clean it up enough, so even though it's external USB I bet it's got the dirty power. The other possibility is your mic's are picking it up. They're not the quietest mics around, but are pretty good on the whole.

Otherwise, don't compress! What for? Compression is for the rock bands, if even then.

Read some of the following articles

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.burmajster/

What kind of room are you recording in?

Dan

Excellent sound. I hope someday to be able to make recordings from my living room. don't have the time or know-how yet, but I will save this thread for the future. Beautiful piece, too. There's a lot to be said for a simple piece that's played with excellent cantabile over a technical fireworks display. Very nice.

SteveY, thanks! I appreciate the web link you gave on the other thread, and has been reading up.

---

Kincaid, viktor kam, pete,

Thanks for your kind words. Will try a recording of something very different in character this week-end and see how far I can go with the equipment.

---

Dan M,

The "crackling noise" -- my wife was wrapping Christmas gifts in the living room.

I'll try to get a picture showing the room and the exact mic placement. I can't thank you enough for getting me started.

That's hilarious!!!

Confession time:
Some of you know that I have a studio that I use for work. It's about 3 miles from my house, and about 30 minutes from NYC, which is very convenient. However, my piano is in my living room (not the studio). So on projects where I need a great-sounding acoustic piano, I have to kick my family out of the house to record piano. Of course, I usually send them somewhere fun so they don't resent me too much. It's good incentive for me to make quick decisions while recording and especially to play well. If I don't move quickly, I may not finish by the time they return home!

In the winter, it's even more comical. I have to turn the furnace off while recording due to noise problems. However, I can only record for about 30-40 minutes before temperature/humidity start to become an issue. So I'm 40 minutes on -- 20 minutes off. Not the most efficient way to track piano!!!

I do, however, have a great home for recording. A large open space that's approximately 1800 square feet with wood floors & high ceilings. I'm on a very quiet street and there's a good deal of space between homes. So unless my neighbor's gardeners are working, I'm good to go. It's usually not a problem.

End of confession (just don't tell my clients!!!)...

Steve,
Not surprised about the air conditioning - that's a pretty common recording problem I understand. I'm lucky in that my house doesn't have central air and I live in a mild climate. Just a few direct vent gas fireplaces which are silent.

Ax - ah! I was going to guess it was a wife wrapping christmas presents ... (yea right). Anyhow, glad I could help. Do see if you can get a quieter signal chain, for me, electronic hash just squashes the music.

Dan

Ax - That was beautiful! The song, your playing and the piano!

SteveY,

Nice "confession." Thanks for sharing. Don't worry, your secret is safe with us.

I have to work out something similar with my wife.

---

Dan M, for that "quieter signal chain," I'll try, but I don't know how yet. I looked at the Lavry for an A/D, but all the Lavry's cost a fortune that I don't have. I thought about wrapping all my cables with aluminum foil. Would that help?

---

teachum, thanks!

The following two pictures show the two microphones' placements. I keep the microphones in their boxes when not using them, but have left the mic stands the way they were since I recorded that sound clip. The red circles are drown around the shock mounts and indicate exactly where the microphones were. Comments/suggestions for audio recording improvement welcome.





Description of room:

Piano is in a 10'x15' "room" with cathedral ceiling edging up from 7'6" on both sides to a 10' high plateau in the middle (above[/b] where the pianist would sit). Fully carpeted floor. _{(Slightly edited thanks to BruceD's comment below. )}

Said "room" opens up to a larger family room (probably 12'x24') with 7'6" ceiling, hardwood floor, and filled with assorted upholstered and bare-wood furniture. The piano's wing lid opens up towards that larger room (sound would project along the 24' dimension).

Comments/suggestions for audio recording improvement welcome.

Just a comment on the room: Sounds as though you have a great space for your piano. Not sure, however, that I - if I were playing - I'd want to be on "...a 10' high plateau in the middle (where the pianist would sit ..." Yikes!

Cheers!

Hi Ax,
About the noise, I'm certainly not suggesting a Lavry, but it should be not too hard to find an A/D for your computer that is quieter, and is relatively cheap. Soundblaster has a card, Audigy 2 I believe, that comes in PCMCIA. It's around 130$. Just an idea, but make sure you can return whatever you may try in case it's noisy too.

I've done the same exact position with those mics, as long as you don't pick up much hammer noise it gives good results, as you've found. Which brings up another topic, what does stereo mean for a piano?

I've been puzzling about this. Most other instruments are easy, oboe, violin, voice, you want to have a nicely localized stereo image. This means that when played back on a stereo, you can pinpoint the position of the performer in a horizontal position. This gives the listener a good impression of 'reality'. What about the piano, or worse, the organ?

The piano, unless you can step away from it around 20 feet or something, doesn't have a stereo pinpoint image. And for solo music in the house (the most natural venue for the piano), the rooms are too small for any such thing. But even then, in a good hall a piano seems to fill it in a way different from most instruments.

And of course with the organ it's even more true, with the room/hall becoming an extension of the instrument. So what constitutes a good capture of a piano?

I'm not sure, I've been listening to recordings and thinking about the ones I like and don't like, and why. Many people will say "good acoustics (meaning good reverb)", but I find that recordings in halls with lots of reverb sounds poor, and unusual. Any hall with a proper audience shouldn't have much reverb.

So lately I've been thinking that a good sound is one where there is (as yet undefined) differentiation between L & R, but most importantly, the tone and dynamcis of the piano are captured.

Sorry, long winded.

Dan

AX,

Sounds Great!!

Larry

Axtremus:

Ditto what Larry Buck just said. Thanks so much for posting about your recording equipment, etc.

I will be getting into recording within the next couple of months, hopefully, and find your thread and the others about this subject very helpful in choosing what to buy. But I think I'm going to be a little bleary eyed by the time I'm ready to go buy something. There's so many different ways to record and different approaches to equipment - AAAACK!

Jeanne W