I'm considering purchasing a 3 year old 5'8" Petrof. I had a technician look at it. He said it was in good shape but hadn't been tuned and would require about $700 of work to regulate, voice, and tune.

The owner is asking $11k for the piano. The technician I hired thinks Petrof is a lesser piano than a Yamaha C2 and in the category of a Yong Cheng but better. He is suggesting that I not pay more than $9k for it but I'm questioning whether his perspective is correct. I've read about newsgroups and it seems that people classify the Petrof in a higher category, comparable to Yamahas, Estonias, Vogel, etc.

He also mentioned that he looked at a Vogel that sold new for $14.5k and thought those were a great piano for the money and soon to be a brand everyone would consider. Do Vogels go for this much? I tried one and they are wonderful pianos but the store listed them for a lot more.

Please advise. Am I paying too much for the Petrof at $11k? Is the Vogel a step up and worth the extra money?

I tried a brand new Petrof grand, just out of curiousity, and I loved the tone. I wound up with a Schulze Pollmann upright, as a grand is out of my budget at this time, HOWEVER... the salesman told my husband that we could get that petrof (I forget the size... but it was greater than 5') for just a tad more than what you are being asked for on the grand. I would listen to your technician. Explain to the seller that it needs serious regulation because it was left untuned, and offer lower than what they are asking. The most they can do is say no. I am sure they dont have a line of people knocking on their door with 11k to buy a piano. IF they say no, then you can always counter Higher.

In Larry Fine's book he does put the Petrof's in the middle category, which is on a similar level as the piano's you hae mentioned. BUT that doesnt mean they are the same quality as every piano varries.

IF you question your technicians opinion, then hire a second one. But I personally would go with what he said.

Good luck, Petrof's are nice, but you can get a used C-2 or C-3 for that, not unheard of... you just have to search and be patient.

Hello Wuster,

I am shopping for a grand as well, and was doubting between Petrof and Kawai.

In Adult´s beginner forum there is a thread I began, with info on what people think about Petrof.

Personally I like better the sound of Kawai or Petrof, than Yamaha, but that´s very personal.

New Petrof sell here for 17.000 euros (PIII model(75,98", and PIV for 15.000 euros (67,72").

Hope it help and good luckˇˇ

Elle

One minor correction to an above comment - Larry Fine lists Petrof in the second grouping (out of five), while the Yamaha C series is in the third grouping. There are some construction and materials differences which probably justify this, but it's my personal experience that a 5'8" Petrof and a C2 are both good pianos, and the choice should come down to personal preference. Most folks here would disagree strongly with your tech, and perhaps even lean toward the Petrof over a C2. Also note that many believe the C3 represents a big improvement over the C2.

I doubt that the owner of the Petrof paid too much more than $11K three years ago - maybe a couple thousand.

W - I wouldn't put Petrof in the category of a Young Chang, it's more in the category of a mid-range Kawai (RX series) or Yamaha (C series), or better (some would say a step up, but your tech obviously differs). At that level, build quality shouldn't be an issue, it's more a matter of personal preferance as to sound and touch.

2MP, on what do you base your comparisons?

Have you played a number of each?

I ask because most industry pros, including Larry Fine, put the Yamaha C Series, the Kawai RX Series and the Young Chang PG Series pianos in one class (****) and the Petrofs in a higher tier (****1/2).

The Petrof is a dominantly handmade instrument while the others are mass-produced.

Have you really evaluated enough of each brand?

When I was a Petrof dealer we found the models VERY variable, much more than one would expect from either Kawai or Yamaha.

Once set up right [which *is* necessary!]
they can have a lovely sound, though tend often to be a little thin in the treble [for some people's taste]

I think the price offered to you is really quite reasonable although the resale value [and *ease* of sale!] of Japanese pianos is generally considered quite a bit better.

Follow your heart - you may be in for a nice piano for quite a nice price!

Good luck!

Norbert

How long ago was that?

10 years ago, Steve.

Hopefully things have somewhat changed - but this wasn't meant as a *swing* at Petrof - I have mentioned here many times that they can be really beautiful sounding instruments.

The piano under consideration here also could actually be manufactured more than 3 years ago but in the final analysis all a customer should be concerned about is if he really likes an instrument, be it Steinway, Boesendorfer, Petrof or whatever.

Incidentally is it the company's official position that all sizes Petrofs today are truly *handmade*??

In my times as [short-term] Petrof dealer that claim was only made for the 2 largest concert grand sizes.

norbert

Wuster - In my opinion the Petrof is a great instrument, in the same category as the Estonia or Yamaha. Having said that, they are charging too much. If you are genuinely interested in it, make a lower offer and see what they say.

Hello Wuster,

The Petrof, YC PGs and Yamaha are all very good pianos, but they all sound very different. I really wanted to like the Yamaha C or PG pianos, because there are some available used in my area. But I never fell in love with the sound of either. I liked the Petrof the first time I heard it and after looking at other pianos for 3-4 months, I came back to the Petrof.

$11K doesn't sound like a bad price to me, but you might be able to get it for a little lower.

Pick something you love. If it doesn't speak to you, walk away.

Good luck
Dave

Hi all,

Norbert, I read your post...been piano shopping and TRYING to make up my mind between Petrof and Kawai. I like the sound of Petrof better but I was a bit worried about said inconsistency. Reading about its need being prepped (and being a newbie) I don´t know if that preparation is included as a part of the 1st tunning included or not....I take (from other threads) that prepping is a bit more ample than tunning, including voicing and..

Also as you are a pro, I would like to know if prepping is included as a general practice or not.

Thanks in advance,

Elle

a tuning and a prep are totally different. Petrofs need a good prep, and be prepared to shell out a few bucks to have it done right.

You know better than to use 10 year old manufacturing opinions. Sounded like a "swing" to me.

Hi,

Be ware of technicians referring you to a particular piano. Sometimes they get commission from the dealer.

Petrof, Vogel, Yamaha, are ok pianos. There are more in the market Bohemia, Kawai, Boston etc.
If you can get something a little bigger than 5'8" you'll also feel a big improvement in the tone of the piano.
I personally don't like the breaks on 5'8" pianos.
(in general)

Steve:

Then let me amend my post to remove any possibility of *swinging*:

Wuster:

Just buy the Petrof. Forget your tech's
[or anybody else's...] opinion and give the seller at least another $ 2000 tip for selling you the piano at that very good price!

You can't go wrong with the piano - don't even need to see it......

In fact asking the very question you did, was totally superfluous.

And don't just *do* it.

Do it RIGHT NOW!![/b]

Otherwise I could get critized here for some *swinging* again......

You see....I'm a good family man - not really the *swinger* type at all........

norbert

Hi Wuster,

Keep in mind that techs may have a preference for Yamaha because of their consistency and their "ease" of use (as far as technicians being able to work on them)--at least one or two techs I talked to mentioned this while I was searching for a piano. It doesn't mean that Petrof is a "lesser" piano, they just may need a bit more prep to bring it up to speed. In addition, the Petrofs that a lot of techs may have experience with could very well be older Petrofs that were manufactured over a dozen years ago. They may not have a lot of experience with newer Petrofs. While searching, I talked to approximately a dozen different techs. A majority did not have much experience with Petrof, and were forthright in saying so.

While piano hunting, I personally found the Petrof pianos to be beautiful. I personally preferred their tonal quality and touch to Yamaha. And, their sustain and dynamic range was impressive (I found the Yamaha's to be lacking in both). You should know, however, that I was only looking at uprights and did not try Petrof or Yamaha grands.

Of course, Yamaha has the advantage over Petrof with respect to name recognition. So, if you think you will be selling the piano in the near future, this could be important to you. Also, some people really like what is often referred to as the "brighter" sound of the Yamaha.

Ultimately, I believe it really comes down to personal preference as far as how it "feels" to you. What did you think of the Petrof? Did is "speak" to you? Did you like the action--did it seem too stiff/heavy or loose/light to you? Have you tried many other pianos? Try not to let anyone or any situation rush you--there are plenty of pianos out there, and there will be many opportunities to get a good deal on a good piano.

You've probably come across previous threads that offer the suggestion to purchase The Piano Book by Larry Fine, as well as the annual supplement, which will give you some general ideas about pricing. I found it to be particularly useful as I was searching for a piano. Also, spend some time going through the archives here. There is a ton of valuable info. Take some time to research, ask questions, and try A LOT of pianos!

Good luck to you!

W,

Your profile doesn't mention where you are shopping. If you are in the midwest, as I am, playing several instruments of several brands if they are not Steinway or Yamaha may not be possible or practical. So it's not always as easy as playing lots of different painos.

I looked into Petrof a few months ago.The closest Petrof dealer was 2 hours away. Many phone calls unearthed one used 5'8" with a PianoDisc player at another dealer. So I saw only 1 Petrof of that size, the dealer's price was $17K (which is $4K below list). I liked it very much, felt it was every bit the equal of the 3 Estonias I played, which were similar in price. I felt both pianos did rival the similar sized Schimmel I played, though the Schimmel had another something that I couldn't put my finger on. Was it a $5K something, I don't know. Big suprise, I agreed with Larry Fine!

Only a walnut finish Petrof was on the floor, I was offered the opportunity for an ebony finish that just cleared customs at the same price but I had to commit to the purchase before he would get it for me from the importer. The used piano with the player was about 2 years old and the same price. In the end I continued shopping.

I'm not sure if you are looking for the same reassurance that I was when I was shopping, but if you are in a location that you can't play a million pianos and work or family make a trip to New York impossible that's what I wanted. So with my admittedly very limitted experience the Petrof is a very nice piano, $11K may be a little steep considering what I was quoted new- but in the end I agree with TK, if that piano speaks to you and you don't like to haggle over prices, I think that you wouldn't need to lose too much sleep feeling you had been taken.

Hope that helps.
Lonnie

Steve Cohen -
I was not including the PG series in my reference to Young Chang. As for the comparison to Yamaha or Kawai, could it be that a bit too much is made of Fine's ratings of 4 vs. 4-1/2 stars, implying that a piano in the latter group is always bette than the former (i.e., liking a Yamaha better than a Petrof at the same price is somehow "wrong")? Personally, we liked the Petrof IV we listened to better than the Kawai RX-2 or Yamaha C-2, but that doesn't mean that the Petrof is the right choice for everyone looking at those alternatives.