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#237839 - 04/11/06 03:30 PM Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
Just for your information...the mystery is over...I Spoke with a representitive of SMC and inquired about my recent purchase of a Kohler Campbell model HBK 161. She indicated it was the same piano as Hazelton HB 161...
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#237840 - 04/11/06 05:24 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3869
I'll bet a complete list of different brands that are actually the same would be an eye opener. The makers just glue on the name of choice on the plate and stencil the name on the key cover - and it becomes whatever brand you want. Sure, there are some changes such as hammer quality but the major parts are basically the same. It's called economy of scale.
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#237841 - 04/11/06 05:31 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
mamma2my3sons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 746
Loc: Midwest of the great USA
Thanks for letting us know. Think its disengenuous & misleading of Samick. Essentially they are substituting pianos of different specs & price points to the unaware public.

In any event, sorry T not to rain on your parade. Glad you & your wife like the piano. Truely that is the most important point.

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#237842 - 04/11/06 05:33 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10483
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob:
I'll bet a complete list of different brands that are actually the same would be an eye opener. The makers just glue on the name of choice on the plate and stencil the name on the key cover - and it becomes whatever brand you want. Sure, there are some changes such as hammer quality but the major parts are basically the same. It's called economy of scale. [/b]
This is not true with most of SMC's lines. Knabe, Sohmer, J. Pramberger, JP Pramberger, Remington and K&C (Hazelton is a K&C line) all use scale designs unique to each line.

While stencilig was once widespread, it is not as common today, with the possble exception of Chinese production where stenciling is much more common.
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#237843 - 04/11/06 05:48 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
mamma2my3sons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 746
Loc: Midwest of the great USA
Steve said:

 Quote:
K&C (Hazelton is a K&C line)
[/b] If that is accurate, things have changed. K&C was not previously a "stencil"piano--nor did it have a "line". According to Larry fine 2005-2006: Hazelton is Samicks[/b] most inexpensive piano line made to "compete with the Chinese pianos of other makers".

Thus Hazelton is roughly on par with Conover Cable, actual Samick branded, & Remington all of which are entry level w/ laminated soundboards & are(were) priced (by both MSRP & Larry Fines) considerably less than Samick's Kohler Campbell brand. I'm very disappointed in Samick!

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#237844 - 04/11/06 06:18 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
JRoss1461 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 91
Loc: Wisconsin
Mamma,what does Fine list the Hazelton 5 3 at ? Its not even close to a KCG product,and I think 8300 is full retail or over.

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#237845 - 04/11/06 06:19 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
Just call me "unaware"... This has been an excellent learning experience and I am very thankful for everyone's input. I have learned much about how to select and purchase a piano over the last week albiet after the fact.

I cannot pull my wife away from the Hazelton, she loves our new piano and practices for hours each day. I am satisfied with the new Hazelton, it meets our needs at this point, though I am a bit disapointed that I did not research more before we purchased. I always have learned the hard way...lesson learned. Now I have about 3-4 years of research before our trade up...I'm think'n $20-30,000 range...any suggestions? heehee
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#237846 - 04/11/06 06:23 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
I've searched internet prices and they are as low as $6,600 for a Hazelton HB161
http://www.pianosfrompartyanimals.com/pianos.php?Name=HB-161

Real classy internet ad eh?
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"What a blessing, growing old is mandatory, growing up is not"

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#237847 - 04/11/06 06:42 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Did they tell you when it was manufactured?

--Cy--
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#237848 - 04/11/06 06:46 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
didn't ask...she did say it was a new model and of course manufatured in Indonesia. So, I asked, "If it is the same piano as the Hazelton HB161 then it must have the same specs?", her reply was "yes".
The SMC rep's name was Jane, and can be reached @ 1-800-592-9393 ex 148
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#237849 - 04/11/06 07:57 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
Somewhat ironically, I just received my 2005-2006 annual supplement to "The Piano Book" in the mail today.

In the begining of the chapter titled "Model and Pricing Guide" Fine states: "Some marginal, local, "stencil" brands are omitted." Hazelton is not in the book. I guess this is one Kohler and Campbell that will not be in the next supplement.
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#237850 - 04/11/06 09:43 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17778
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
tootallll, this may have been a case where ignorance is bliss. On the one hand you have cleared up the mystery. On the other hand, you have just discovered that your piano is identical to one selling cheaper, and that had you known that, you might have bought from "pianos from party animals" :rolleyes: instead. You sort of have two options: One is to be thankful you found a piano you (and your wife) loves, and which you were after all happy and willing to pay the purchase price for; the second is to go back to the dealer, explain what you have learned here and from Samick, and tell him that if you are buying a Hazelton you want to pay the Hazelton price, and see if he will refund any of your money. The snag, of course, is what if the dealer says no and you've raised your blood pressure for nothing?

Personally, I think your current attitude ("oh well, we love the piano") is probably the healthiest.
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#237851 - 04/11/06 10:19 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
Sorry Monica...too late I already sent him an email. I did not ask for a rebate of the price difference but stated that I was disappointed about what I had learned and that quite frankly I was bewildered as to why a Steinway distributor would sell such an inferior product. I also said I felt somewhat taken advantage of because he was aware that my wife and I knew NOTHING about pianos. Perhaps I should ask for rebate?
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#237852 - 04/11/06 10:24 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17778
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I'm tempted to say "why not?" The best outcome is that if you make a big enough fuss and threaten to return the piano, maybe the dealer WOULD give you some money back. The difference between what the Hazelton sells for and $8300 is not insignificant.

However, there is an emotional factor at work here: You ARE happy with the piano. But what if you asked for some money back and the dealer says no? Would the resulting anger diminish your enjoyment of the piano and make you feel resentful? I would hate for that to happen.

So I guess I would recommmend that you press the issue with the dealer only if you can honestly say it won't bother you if it doesn't get anywhere.
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#237853 - 04/11/06 10:29 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
I am not going to press the issue...just chalk it up to another one of my expensive life lessons that I knew but ignored...caveat emptor!!!
_________________________
"What a blessing, growing old is mandatory, growing up is not"

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#237854 - 04/11/06 11:10 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
mamma2my3sons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 746
Loc: Midwest of the great USA
tootal, I'm so sorry. I understand your anger however try not to let it ruin things. Samick does not make an inferior piano. I'm sure yours is very nice. Its worth more than the one you saw on line since yours is from a reputable local dealer and has a beautiful mahogany finish--that is always extra-$500+ Plus you have the new slow close fallboard.
I'm sorry we opened this can of worms.

Jross, don't have Fines list for Hazelton-however its my understanding its the same piano as their Samick & CC--the 5'3" in mahogany lists for $10,190

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#237855 - 04/12/06 01:35 PM Re: Kohler and Campbell HBK 161 is Hazelton HB 161
tootallll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Tierra Verde, Florida
One last comment and it is water under the bridge, upon close inspection using Fine's buying tips, the workmanship seems to be at least favorable.

The strings on three keys had slight crowding around neighboring tuning pins. The tuninng pin holes were centered properly. The strings are coiled neatly around the tuning pin and are at even heights above the plate. The string coils are hand wound and contain no coil locks. Hammers are aligned properly. Agraffes are used on the tenor and bass strings. There are no rattling bass strings. The strings contact the bridge and bridge pin in the proper spot. The bridges are made out of solid wood...the tenor and bass string bridge looked to to be maple, while the other strings bridge looked like oak.

The sound board is 1/4" laminated wood.(I followed the woodgrain lines from the top of the soundboard down the cut edge to verify and the woodgrains do not match) There appeared to be a good crown on the sound board. Tone and pitch are beyond my evaluating ability at this time. Larry Fine does not totaly spurn a laminated soundboard as long as it sounds ok.

All in all by Fine's standards this piano if anything is at least well consructed...now if I could just learn to play it! \:D
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"What a blessing, growing old is mandatory, growing up is not"

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