Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#85876 - 09/21/06 08:13 PM Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
Hi, I just bought my first piano and I'd love to know a little about the brand if anyone can help. Purchased it on ebay and the seller stated it was from the 40s. I know a little bit about antiques but nothing about pianos and I just felt like it had to be older than that from the looks of the case. My guess is late 20's early 30's. Any ideas and if not specific to this piano, just any info on Webers from the 20's to 40's in general would be helpful. I feel as though I have searched the internet and reached the end. That's it. No more answers for me out there. The serial number is 80558. Thanks in advance for the help. Here's the ebay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#85877 - 09/21/06 08:33 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21520
Loc: Oakland
That serial number would date it to about 1930. It looks like it still has some original Weber design to it. A few years later, Aeolian-American was consolidating all their lesser models, including Weber, into more generic pianos, of lesser quality.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#85878 - 09/21/06 08:41 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
That serial number would date it to about 1930. It looks like it still has some original Weber design to it. A few years later, Aeolian-American was consolidating all their lesser models, including Weber, into more generic pianos, of lesser quality. [/b]
I have figured out that when the depression hit, many companies went under and that Weber might have barely hung on for a few years as a quality manufacturer...so of course, I am hoping this has a little bit of craftsmanship in it...like maybe the last good one made in the depression era? And somewhere I read that Steinway & Sons helped complete some Webers during that time period for just a few months/years. Do you know anything about that...have I got an exotic hybrid or a ugly Frankenstein?

Top
#85879 - 09/22/06 03:09 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
VGrantano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 771
Loc: New Jersey
Before we go any further you have to forget about antiques . There is no such thing with pianos.
It's only value is as a musical instrument.
It is from 1930,and at that time Aeolian had not started to roll all their lines into one. Knabe, J&C Fischer,Weber,Mason&Hamlen,Chickering, were from the same company.When Winter bought them out is when they consolidated.And started slipping.
The only thing I remember about them and Steinway is that Steinway sent their pianos to them for installation of the old player system.

Top
#85880 - 09/22/06 09:48 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by VGrantano:
Before we go any further you have to forget about antiques . There is no such thing with pianos.
It's only value is as a musical instrument.
It is from 1930,and at that time Aeolian had not started to roll all their lines into one. Knabe, J&C Fischer,Weber,Mason&Hamlen,Chickering, were from the same company.When Winter bought them out is when they consolidated.And started slipping.
The only thing I remember about them and Steinway is that Steinway sent their pianos to them for installation of the old player system. [/b]

Top
#85881 - 09/22/06 09:49 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
So maybe I got an okay piano then. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Top
#85882 - 09/23/06 07:28 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9222
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
[edit]

Enjoy the piano.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#85883 - 09/23/06 08:24 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
turrin150 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Ridgewood, NJ
Your Weber is probably more than OK.
My Weber is a rebuilt mid-20's Duo-Art reproducing grand 5'11". Everyone, including my piano teacher and my technician who play it (by hand), are very impressed. I did quite a bit of research before buying it. Weber was Aeolian Co's top brand. Weber was a very high quality piano up to the early 30's before Aeolian merged with American Piano. Webers were known for their deep rich tone. Back in the 20's, Webers were the preferred pinao at the Metropolitan Opera for voice accompaniment. There is an excellent thread about the "Golden Age" of US piano manufacturing here on Piano Forum - it mentions Weber as one of the top quality makes of that period. The "golden age" was roughly the first 30 years of the 20th century. From about 1915 to 1932, Steinway made a slightly stretched version of their M scale grand (the "XR")that was specially built to accomodate the Aeolian Duo-ARt reproducing player system. Aeolian would install their player system and sell these grands as STeinway Duo-Art grands. Weber grands were also avaialbe with the Duo-Art reproducing system. All the best - I hope you enjoy your new piano.

Top
#85884 - 09/23/06 10:28 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10478
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by turrin150:
Your Weber is probably more than OK.
My Weber is a rebuilt mid-20's Duo-Art reproducing grand 5'11". Everyone, including my piano teacher and my technician who play it (by hand), are very impressed. I did quite a bit of research before buying it. Weber was Aeolian Co's top brand. Weber was a very high quality piano up to the early 30's before Aeolian merged with American Piano. Webers were known for their deep rich tone. Back in the 20's, Webers were the preferred pinao at the Metropolitan Opera for voice accompaniment. There is an excellent thread about the "Golden Age" of US piano manufacturing here on Piano Forum - it mentions Weber as one of the top quality makes of that period. The "golden age" was roughly the first 30 years of the 20th century. From about 1915 to 1932, Steinway made a slightly stretched version of their M scale grand (the "XR")that was specially built to accomodate the Aeolian Duo-ARt reproducing player system. Aeolian would install their player system and sell these grands as STeinway Duo-Art grands. Weber grands were also avaialbe with the Duo-Art reproducing system. All the best - I hope you enjoy your new piano. [/b]
We have a Steinway XR . It is a Model M in a Model L case. Its player mechanisim was disgarded when the piano was rebuilt in 1979. It is an interesting piece.

The original Weber scale was, as you said, very well respected. However, it is a close call whether or not it would be economically wise to rebuild one today. The cost of a quality rebuilding job is so high that you can conceivably buy a high-quality used piano or even a new one for less.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

Top
#85885 - 09/23/06 11:04 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
turrin150 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Ridgewood, NJ
I agree with you on the pure economics of rebuidling. You do it out of love. When I play a Josef Hofmann Duo-Art roll for people who appreciate music and it blows everyone away - it's worth it.

Top
#85886 - 09/23/06 11:24 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
You have to consider, too, we're not talking about whether or not the piano is worthy of rebuilding. We're talking about whether or not it makes sense given that Weber is not a contemporary prestige brand. Had the identical piano been made by Steinway, it would be considered economically feasible to rebuild solely due to the public's familiarity w/Steinway as 'the best'. Of course we all know that the public's view is not accurate; but, public demand still dictates prices. Hopefully, Ginger's piano will not require a rebuild and she'll have gotten a better instrument than she would have had the public been tuned into the quality of her piano.

Top
#85887 - 09/23/06 11:31 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
Also, I don't think it's fair to say that pianos don't have value as antiques. Many of us rate our piano's value solely by it's ability to perform, but many people are very much concerned w/the antique quality of their instruments. Some instruments are sold first as antiques and their greatest value comes from their being an antique. And people like myself value my piano as both - a working instrument and an exceptional antique. So I guess value is determined by the needs of the owner, but there is certainly an 'antique' element to value that is even pointed out by rebuilders of 100 year + instruments.

Top
#85888 - 09/23/06 11:45 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21520
Loc: Oakland
The piano has already had a lot of work done on it. You can see that from the pictures. Why even worry about the economics of rebuilding? It may never need more work than has already been done. (Other than routine maintenance, of course.)
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#85889 - 09/23/06 12:08 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
I hadn't noticed the listing/pic of the piano. Well, looks like Ginger did very well!

Top
#85890 - 09/23/06 12:48 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
VGrantano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 771
Loc: New Jersey
Please do not lead people astray.THERE IS NO ANTQUE VALUE IN PIANOS. A very,very few through the years have made it. And there was always somthing special about.Played by so and so, was in the White House, was serial number such and such.
Along with any of the early '30's Aeolian pianos,
Webers are worthy of being rebuilt. Right Rich?

Top
#85891 - 09/24/06 09:11 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
Thanks you all for helpng me understand this piano a little more. Bottom line for me is that I love it so I am happy no matter what age it is. Any musical insturment this gorgeous has to have value as an antique. If not, that would be like saying a 68 corvette is just an old car...not quite unique, definatly not as good as a new one. Oh my gosh! Everyone values different things, I guess.
Back to the old Weber... it needs no work as far as I can tell. And we have determined that it is late 20's/early 30's most likely. I was mostly trying to figure out why an old Weber has Steinway parts in it? There seems to be no history of how that could have happened...some weird factoy relationship in the 20s-30s or a mad sceintist/piano tech experiment? Or was someone saying that the duo-art parts had been removed earlier and the piano rebuilt...using a mix of parts brands? Obviously I know nothing about pianos...sorry. But that's why I am here asking you guys. :3hearts:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Top
#85892 - 09/24/06 09:27 AM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
gingersnapperus Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 8
Loc: South Carolina
Thank you Turrin150 for the info on THE GOLDEN AGE OF PIANOS post by David Burton. Good info!

Top
#85893 - 09/24/06 01:28 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
Regarding the antique value of pianos, my own view is that while many musicians value their instrument solely upon it's ability as a musical instrument, many people (and musicians) ARE interested in the antique value of pianos and have bought instruments based upon antique value. A quick search on the internet shows dozens of antique stores selling pianos w/prices based upon antique value. I've also seen music stores and rebuilders put a premium on the price of pianos to account for antique value. Of course, I realise I may be mistaken, but it seems ludicrous to me to say that "there is no antique value to pianos". As always, I'd be interested in seeing tangible information that contradicts my views. Better to remain open to everything than to cling to misconceptions!

Top
#85894 - 09/24/06 03:07 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
mamma2my3sons Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 746
Loc: Midwest of the great USA
Think when it is said that there there is no antique value in pianos, the meaning is that unlike some other things, one can't expect a piano to increase in value (or have any value) just by nature of it being old.[/b] From a musical instrument prospective, many old pianos are simply beautiful firewood. ..(firewood: the term used for pianos that have little musical value without extensive costly rebuilding). However if one looks at the classified and Ebay obviously there is some market even for firewood. . .

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that your piano is beautiful firewood. Not at all. Just trying to clarify the lack of antique value thing.

Now go enjoy your piano!

Best wishes.

Top
#85895 - 09/24/06 09:36 PM Re: Vintage Weber Baby Grand History Help
turrin150 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Ridgewood, NJ
In looking at the Ebay post pictures of your beautiful Weber grand earlier today - your grand does not at all appear to be a converted Duo-Art player, which is very good from a value standpoint - converted players are harder to re-sell. To see what a Weber Duo-ARt player grand looks and sounds like - visit this website - it's a piano restoration firm in Japan that re-built a Weber as well as a Steinway Duo-Art. They have sound files of actual Duo-Art rolls played on these pianos. My piano is almost identical to the Weber pictured but the mahogany on mine is not as red.
http://www.morita-piano.com/jp/item/weber.htm

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Will this Piano Room have good Acoustics?
by flamenco88
09/17/14 10:59 PM
Proud new owner of a Yamaha P22
by amanda416
09/17/14 09:04 PM
Returning to piano, advice on slow learning process
by roninpro
09/17/14 07:57 PM
Anton Kuerti and Cyprien Katsaris
by pianoloverus
09/17/14 07:09 PM
Pianists' tessitura
by Riddler
09/17/14 06:54 PM
Who's Online
112 registered (AB99, Aljon, 3times2, accordeur, A Guy, 32 invisible), 1223 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76237 Members
42 Forums
157594 Topics
2314819 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission