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#334137 - 11/11/06 01:11 AM Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
According to one person who has watched Yamaha install the Dampp-Chaser into an upright, the heater bar was located at the bottom of the cavity, just above the pedals. An experienced piano tech says that's the wrong place to put the heater bar - it should be located about mid-way, just under the action.

Who is right? This is in Singapore, where the outside temperature is between 25 degC and 32 degC, and RH between 70% and 95%.

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#334138 - 11/11/06 02:15 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
It generally goes about a foot above the bottom of the piano.

It might have to be relocated, for example, if the water tank can't be placed on the bottom board at the right because of the pedal trapwork. In that case, the tank is suspended on the left (usually), closer to the action. That might be a reason for the heater bar to be lower.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
www.shusterpiano.com
www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
Dampp-Chaser Certified Installer
PianoDisc Certified Service Technician

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#334139 - 11/11/06 04:41 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cy Shuster:
It generally goes about a foot above the bottom of the piano.

It might have to be relocated, for example, if the water tank can't be placed on the bottom board at the right because of the pedal trapwork. In that case, the tank is suspended on the left (usually), closer to the action. That might be a reason for the heater bar to be lower.
[/b]
Thanks Cy. Given that I live in Singapore, would I really need the Dampp-Chaser complete with humidifier and all? The local techs say that for most uprights an 8W heater bar (left on all the time) will do.

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#334140 - 11/11/06 05:23 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
RedTop Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 54
Loc: Peterborough, NH
My Dampp - Chaser heater bar is installed about one foot above the foot pedals. This position is dictated by the constraint that it must be just above the water tank. If only the heater bar is installed, I would mount it 6 inches above the foot pedals so that the warm, dry air it creates rises inside the piano and bathes the entire soundboard as well as the wooden framework and the action. You should call Dampp - Chaser with your question - they are nice people who answer the phone.

Gary

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#334141 - 11/11/06 06:22 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by RedTop:
You should call Dampp - Chaser with your question - they are nice people who answer the phone.[/b]
Thanks Gary. When ready to buy I will call Dampp-Chaser and their dealer here in Singapore! \:\)

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#334142 - 11/11/06 09:51 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 Quote:
Originally posted by Digitus:
Given that I live in Singapore, would I really need the Dampp-Chaser complete with humidifier and all? The local techs say that for most uprights an 8W heater bar (left on all the time) will do. [/b]
Your conditions are so different, I'd follow what your local techs suggest. I hate to install a half system, though; pianos get moved during their lifetimes!

I always install the humidistat. The cycling is part of the design, to stimulate airflow, and you want a standard installation in order to protect your warranty. 8W is about 10 times too small. 50W is the standard, and for your environment, I'd add another 25W bar near the action.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
www.shusterpiano.com
www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
Dampp-Chaser Certified Installer
PianoDisc Certified Service Technician

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#334143 - 11/11/06 10:55 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Brick Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 373
Digitus,

A measly 8 watt heater bar is a joke in a place like Singapore. It will do nothing for you.

Reading several postings on Singapore here, I get the impression the tech people there are clueless when it comes to this issue.

What you need is a 50 watt rod, like Cy says, and a humidistat to control it. That will control the interior. Install it near the bottom, as someone else advised. Add a 25 watt rod under the keybed, in line with the pivot points of the keysticks. That will control what the rising heat from the 50 watt rod can't reach.

This will give you the kind of coverage you need in a place like Singapore.

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#334144 - 11/11/06 01:34 PM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Brick:
What you need is a 50 watt rod, like Cy says, and a humidistat to control it. That will control the interior. Install it near the bottom, as someone else advised. Add a 25 watt rod under the keybed, in line with the pivot points of the keysticks. That will control what the rising heat from the 50 watt rod can't reach.

This will give you the kind of coverage you need in a place like Singapore. [/b]
Thanks for your suggestion. I will certainly talk to Yamaha (who import the Dampp-Chaser into Singapore) and then double-check with a call to Dampp-Chaser directly.

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#334145 - 11/12/06 05:13 PM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Here's the one installer in Singapore that D-C knows about:

EK SION KWAN EMMANUEL & SONS 912206 (65)455-5855

This result is from this search page:
http://dampp-chaser.com/installers_n.asp

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
www.shusterpiano.com
www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
Dampp-Chaser Certified Installer
PianoDisc Certified Service Technician

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#334146 - 11/12/06 08:57 PM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cy Shuster:
Here's the one installer in Singapore that D-C knows about:

EK SION KWAN EMMANUEL & SONS 912206 (65)455-5855

This result is from this search page:
http://dampp-chaser.com/installers_n.asp

--Cy-- [/b]
Thanks Cy!

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#334147 - 11/18/06 06:46 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Digitus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cy Shuster:
It generally goes about a foot above the bottom of the piano.

It might have to be relocated, for example, if the water tank can't be placed on the bottom board at the right because of the pedal trapwork. In that case, the tank is suspended on the left (usually), closer to the action. That might be a reason for the heater bar to be lower.
[/b]
Thanks Cy. Given that I live in Singapore, would I really need the Dampp-Chaser complete with humidifier and all? The local techs say that for most uprights an 8W heater bar (left on all the time) will do. [/b]
Make that 25W, always on.

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#334148 - 11/18/06 08:20 PM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Bob Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 3834
In Orlando, most heater rods I see are missing the H-2 on/off control. The higher wattage rods (more than 25 watts) have dried out some pianos and loosened tuning pins. Rods less than 25 watts seem to be ok if on 24/7 - but they are not enough heat to reduce the humidity sufficiantly. Therefore, go with two 50 watt rods as mentioned above and control them with the H-2 on/off switch.
_________________________
www.PianoTunerOrlando.com






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#334149 - 11/18/06 08:43 PM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Digitus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 866
Loc: Singapore
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bob:
In Orlando, most heater rods I see are missing the H-2 on/off control. The higher wattage rods (more than 25 watts) have dried out some pianos and loosened tuning pins. Rods less than 25 watts seem to be ok if on 24/7 - but they are not enough heat to reduce the humidity sufficiantly. Therefore, go with two 50 watt rods as mentioned above and control them with the H-2 on/off switch. [/b]
Thanks Bob! One of the reasons I was asking these questions was concern about over-drying. I agree with you, Cy and others who recommend using the full DC system, including humidifier. The A/C is sometimes on the whole day, and while I doubt that the RH could fall enough to trigger the humidifier I still don't want to take chances.

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#334150 - 11/19/06 10:03 AM Re: Where to place heater bar in an upright?
Cy Shuster, RPT Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 3448
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 Quote:
Originally posted by Digitus:
The local techs say that for most uprights an 8W heater bar (left on all the time) will do. Make that 25W, always on. [/b]
This was the standard installation about 25 years ago, when the electronics to control the system would have cost more than the piano! That's why the power was limited to 25W, to protect the piano from over-drying. But it wasn't strong enough to get high humidity down. I've pulled many of those old silver bars out of pianos.

The current system is much more advanced, which is why they're calling it the "Piano Life Saver System". Singapore may be one of the parts of the world where Dampp-Chaser will allow a system without the humidifier.

But always, always install the humidistat.

--Cy--
_________________________
Cy Shuster, RPT
505-265-4234
www.shusterpiano.com
www.facebook.com/shusterpiano
Albuquerque, New Mexico

Registered Piano Technician
Dampp-Chaser Certified Installer
PianoDisc Certified Service Technician

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