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#215801 - 01/29/07 04:36 AM Is this kawai a good buy?
iriscyx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 5
Loc: malaysia
I'm looking for second hand piano for my son who is a beginner, and there are two kawai upright grand pianos recommended by the music school, which is model
KU-5B, serial no K450xxx, and
BL-71, serial no K789xxx (with some plastic part),
and their price is RM200 different, close to RM8k, are these model good? I heard there are from music school in Japan, and I worry their condition are not very good because of the daily use although now they sound good.

And there is a 30 yrs yamaha U2 price at RM8700, cost higher than kawai. also has a nice sound, can somebody advice me on these pianos, which one is a good buy?

I'll appreciate all the opions. thank you

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#215802 - 01/29/07 01:08 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
ERWANDY Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 43
Loc: MALAYSIA
You can get new piano for less than RM8000! but since you question regarding second hnd piano ..here are my experience to share..


I bought my 25 yrs Yamaha U1 6 months ago for RM8K.. and i never regret it \:\) .. IMHO
they are good deal "IF"...remember this..IF you have them checked carefully ..soundboard. hammers worn out.....rusted string..uneven keys..and make sure it comes with local warranty (written in paper..black & white)

..beware of counterfeit..(as i once a victim - read my thread :

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=015134;p=0

Take ur time (at least 3 months or more) to do reasearch before commit any purchase.. find as many piano tech you can ... make discussion abound brands, used piano..age..durability..etc, or if u dont hv time,get "the piano book by Larry fine" at konikunya..this help alot.. and when you ready to buy one..bring a tech along (trusted one!) if you can..


IMHO..both brand kawai and yamaha are good choice ..In terms of tone, i much prefer Kawai over yamaha..mellow singing tone..which i found much on recondition kawai upright rather than bright tone of yamaha..but in term of key action i prefer yamaha over kawai.. which u have much better control during piano practice..and this is what needed as a piano student especially your son (and me)..better control!..(only restricted my opinion to used piano 25yr++ since new kawai have better improved action)

If you read most of thread here..these piano
are called gray market piano,but in malaysia there are no term like that since our climate is rather similar (humidity) in japan.. so far i havent heard any drying piano issue..like in northern America. but we have massive problem like rusted strings and mold (due to moisture)..

Its up to your choice and taste..but i suggest you to try find one less than 20yrs..which cost more expensive..

Do look at yamaha UX series like UX1..UX3
...which have X backpost..i tried two of them (refurbised from japan).. excellent tone..compares to usual U series.

Lastly...
Easiest choice..get a new one..(but with your price range, you probably get china/indonesia/malaysian made piano.. good thing is they comes with longer warranty up to 10 years).and their tones are good as branded..(some are even better than yamaha or kawai)..but bad thing is they are their durability are unknown.. and you hardly find one with good action keys compares to used kawai/yam).. Unless you are willng to spend little more..(RM12K++) then you may end up with a good buy.. upright young chang (korea)/samick (china)/challen(malaysia)/ are few my choices.Although i never tried one but i read many good reviews about them.

Our choice of china made piano is not much..restricted to class B or C quality..
If only we have better grade/brand like schimmel, palatino sold here..im willing to trade with one of them since i read many good reviews about them.(which available in U.S mostly)..

Good luck and all the best..

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#215803 - 01/29/07 10:40 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
iriscyx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 5
Loc: malaysia
Thank you so much for your info, it is very helpful.

yes, I know new yamaha piano from Indonesia cost about RM8k++, but I was told that there are a lot of complaints (like the quality of the wood, the tone...), I would like to buy a good quality piano that my son will grow into, and i cannot afford to buy new piano which cost RM29K (for a brand new U1) although th dealer said can reduce to RM27k, this is totally out.

That's why i feel the kawai BL (RM8K) can be considered for the mellow tone and so on but it is already 30yrs++ old, the dealer said the action parts and the heart of the piano have been changed, so it's like a 10yrs old piano. Is this called a recon piano? Is there any problem for recon piano?

There are not many music shop in JB so the choice of piano is also limited, and I was told that 2nd hand piano with top quality are always sent to S'pore because of the currency so the dealers can make more profit. This is quite sad.

And I have read your previous post, you all kept mentioning about U1, what about U2, is U2 also as good as U1 or better?
Now there is a U1 piano with silent function (RM7800) and U2(RM8700) for me to choose also, both also about 30yrs old.
I feel the sound of U2 is good but if want to compare to kawai BL which is few hundred dollars cheaper, maybe I'll prefer kawai more.

So it's really not easy to choose a right piano, I'm quite in a loss now !!

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#215804 - 01/30/07 07:01 AM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
ERWANDY Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 43
Loc: MALAYSIA
my vote.. go for kawai BL-70..but make sure to make a checklist...hammers..strings..bridges..etc
i hd seen one in penang and its a very fine instrument (despite its 30yrs old) with mellow singing tone..and the keybed and rack is shaped such like a grand piano.. besides its height is more than U1/U2 which give more deeper bass (due to longer bass strings)..i only curious about the key action..does it feel any good to you?..anyway u can ask your son to play some short recital and get his opinion..if he feel that he can do trills effortless then i say go for it..perhaps this can be your first and last piano purchase and it will last till ur next generation.

yamaha U2 is slightly taller than U1(i dont remember how many inches)..eventhough few inchs different but its a huge differents in tonal characteristic especially bass tone..if you have to choose between same age U1 & U2 ..i will prefer U2..(despite U1 have silent feature)..due to U2 hv bigger bass tone

BTW there is nothing wrong with recon piano..beside its the best thing to do to a 30yrs old piano..due to normal wear and tear..same concept as motocar..when your tyre thread wore out..they need to be replaced ..only thing is how good is the replaced tyres..wht brand...just like hammers/string in piano..good string/hammers replaced can last longer..but i assure the piano can last a decade eventhough with a china made hammers/strings.. maybe the worst thing is you need to change few broken strings, replaced few hammers in the period of time..(only if your son banging the keys every day perhaps)..I also experiencing dealers/piano teacher disouraging student to buy recond..i just dont know why..since my recond U1 ...IMHO a more value buy and better choice than new piano within its price range.. but its a very long journey..a pain adventure.. before you can find a "diamond in a rough"..so be carefull.. and good luck..u may end up buying a diamond at a price of sandstone..or vice versa :p ..and dont rush into this ok.. all the best

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#215805 - 01/30/07 09:25 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
Jay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 472
Loc: AUD
You must remember that Japanese pianos from many decades were consider low-quality pianos because of poor materials and construction. Today, they are different, better design, better construction & better materials, of course, depending to models and origins. Like you have experience the LU90 - Indonesia. For the price I think is too expensive from where it comes.

There are plenty of pianos (particularly new pianos today) you can buy for that $$$. Do shop around more before you consider that piano. A 30 years old piano is an old and must be inspected by a "qualified technician" and doesn't worth that $$$ you plan to pay for. 30 years old piano, not surprise it will need major replacements & repairs.

Frankly, piano can last for many years… many many years but humidity shorten the lifespan of a piano. How many owners actually make sure piano sits wells in a constant RH? On the other hand, not all used pianos are bad there are few... around... very few...

For used piano of good quality sent to Singapore for better profit, frankly, I don't understand why when Singapore dealer can import themselves selling at much competitive price since they only pay 5% GST. Where else, Malaysia would be paying 25% tax. And, when you sum it up, the piano will cost 30% more! Well every dealer will have their own reasons or story why they don’t have better units on the floor. IMO, the truth is good used pianos from Japan are more expensive thus it will be difficult for the dealers to sell. Eventually customers (IMO) will prefer a new piano if the price of a used piano is not much different, of course subject to brand, model and origin. Therefore, many of the used pianos you find are normally from 25 years onwards.

Happy shopping for a piano but shop smart....
Regards. ;\)

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#215806 - 01/30/07 09:50 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
iriscyx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 5
Loc: malaysia
hi, thank you so much for sharing your experience with me, I think i'll go for kawai BL, because my son likes it also after he played on it, he said the tones sound better, it's the best thing that he enjoys playing the piano that he helps to choose, right!

And since the dealer said it's a grade A piano, i feel more confident of buying it. Anyway, is RM8k a reasonable price? may i know how much is your U1, and how many yrs of warranty given (warranty on what stuff) , this BL will have 5 yrs of warranty, but i don't know whether it's a kawai warranty, i need to find out more from the dealer.

I really hope what i get is a diamond as what you said. thanks.

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#215807 - 01/30/07 09:53 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
Jay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 472
Loc: AUD
 Quote:
Originally posted by iriscyx:
this BL will have 5 yrs of warranty, but i don't know whether it's a kawai warranty, i need to find out more from the dealer.
[/b]
No, it is a dealer warranty. Kawai, Yamaha or any other piano makers will not provide warranty for a used pianos.
Regards

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#215808 - 01/31/07 09:10 AM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
ERWANDY Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 43
Loc: MALAYSIA
my U1H price is RM8K (about USD2K) built in 1976..so its 30 years old..(sorry for wrong info in previous thread), 4 years warranty by local dealer..(not yamaha dealer)..but i have all warranty item that cover (hammers..string...voicing) , written clearly on the receipt..


anyway i agree with jay..piano is made of organic material..wood, felt..brass.. easily spoil due to wear and tear..that is why YOU MUST CHECKED UP all this item in detail..how bad the strings is rusted..how worn out is the hammers..a good tech can tell you how long this piano will last..


quote by Jay:
"You must remember that Japanese pianos from many decades were consider low-quality pianos because of poor materials and construction"


Jay..i almost agree with this..except yamaha is well established since 1890's while kawai in early 1900's.. since then..they did plenty of reseach n development of piano..in terms of quality and durability.. decades after decades...
while china began their piano industries only in mid of 1950s..IMO i believed piano built decades ago are among the best as they are consider as elite instrument..an expensive item..in such they built it with a high cost material...now days piano are made in bulk in factory..where mostly built with costdown part ...as the market price for new piano is very competetive..and of course there are plenty of new quality piano down there but for a price of a new car? (RM20K++).. I had testdrive a new U1 made in indonesia and the only major different is the key action which is much better..the rest (tone..piano cabinet.strings..hammers) look almost like my recond U1..and i only pay the 1/3 price to get one... LU series also made in indo..despite its good price range..still it can't compare to 46"inch/higher piano like U1 or BL (in terms of tone)..and the trade up value is very low..China piano IMO are still below my expectation( especially in key action) although some hv very good tonal characteristic...durability unknown..(READ FORUM)..

European piano are built with its own high class..and still new one cost u a fortune..(petrof..august forster)..There are rarely to find recond/used european piano sold here in malaysia..(mmm i wonder why)..


anyhow choose that suit one's pocket $$ and one's taste...i agree with jay..>buy smart & wisely..

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#215809 - 01/31/07 10:48 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
uesofe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Malaysia
Recently I bought recon Kawai K35 (approx 40++ year old) with condition Body B+ grade, Keyboard A grade, Pin A grade (Repaired) ,Action A grade and Soundboard A grade. This 132 height piano cost me RM7500 and produce nice mellow sound.

I bought this piano from piano technician. Please be careful with recon piano, some of them using cheap parts. Bring along your friend who knows about piano grade or independent piano technician to evaluate BL61. Gor for tallest upright piano !

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#215810 - 02/01/07 09:34 PM Re: Is this kawai a good buy?
iriscyx Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 5
Loc: malaysia
hi, guys, thank you for all your advice! I really appreciate that.

I've already chosen BL-71, now it's beautifully sitting in my living room, we all love it, and my sons enjoy playing it. The dealer is a kawai dealer for more than 20yrs in JB, he said the piano is in grade A condition and the tuner also said so, so I'm quite relieved to hear that.

Just that I hope my son can practise more often so one day can play me a beautiful music, I think I'll learn from him also, though I'm already 40 yrs old, fingers are quite stiff to learn piano. wish me luck!

One thing i worry now is the rats w'll move into my piano, there are always rats in my house, the technician said once the rat goes into the piano, their urine can damage the strings, then have to use alot of money to repair it, so he helped to use newspaper to block all the holes of the piano, I think now I have to be more alert to be a rat-killer!

Anyway, thanks for all! This is a really useful forum.

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