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#162940 - 02/18/07 03:45 AM Hailun, anyone?
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7188
Loc: torrance, CA
Does anyone have any firsthand experience with this company or its products? I am still trying to turn over every stone before committing to buying a low-budget piano. I remember reading somewhere last year that were coming to the L.A. area (where I live) but it seems they decided on Atlanta for their US home office. I checked their website http://www.hailunusa.com/main.shtml
and learned by sending an E-mail that they will have a dealer (not named) in the L.A. area in a couple of weeks with several models in stock. Is that dealer anyone in the forum?

Something that caught my eye in their photos of their product line was that the company name was actually on the fallboard. A Hailun piano from the Hailun Piano Company. Now that's refreshing.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#162941 - 02/18/07 05:20 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Wzkit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 1005
Loc: Singapore
Hailun is essentially the same piano as Wendl & Lung. They have received pretty good reviews in these forums, and from my own experience, I would agree that the positive reviews are well deserved.

I would describe the basic tone character of the grands and uprights I tried as "bright" and clear, with an emphasis on the fundamental. The bass is also strong and "growly", especially on the grands. While bright, there is, to me, a clear attempt to imitate a more singing "European" tone, with longer sustain, as opposed to the brightness one tends to associate with Yamahas. That said, its not quite up on par with the better German makes. For example, the treble, while sparkling and clear, lacks the richness one would hear in an Ibach, or for that matter, a Sauter.

The one big unknown here is longevity, given that these pianos have not been in out in the market long enough. But for the price, I think the risk one is taking should be fairly minimal
_________________________
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard

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#162942 - 02/18/07 07:13 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Hi turandot

I cannot really speak for Hailun but I own a Wendl & Lung grand 161: http://www.wendl-lung.com/
W&L's are manufactured in the Hailun factory (China) but W&L claims differences in hammer choice, voicing, cabinet details (e.g. you can see the casters are not alike) and Q.C.. The product line (sizes) do not overlap completely either and all W&L pass through W&L-Vienna for final check-up and regulation before being shipped to dealers in Europe mainly (although I am also aware of a dealer in the States: http://www.pianofortechicago.com/. Whether these differences really also pay off in terms of noticable quality differences I do not know because Hailun is not available in Europe (so could not do a straight comparison betwen W&L and Hailun).

I am hower always suspicious when I read comments like "they are essentially the same as" or "they are basically the same as"...A Kemble KC 173 is indeed basically a Yamaha C1; a Kawai GE-30 basically a Kawai Rx-1 or a Yamaha GC1 is basically a Yamaha C1. Price aside I can however not imagine that many (if any) would prefer a C1 over a KC 173, a GE-30 over a Rx-1 .....

Another piano hat is made by Hailun is the Steigerman Premium Line: http://www.steigerman.com/home.htm. Also here there are constructional differences with the "basic" Hailuns. If you are lucky Norbert jumps on this thread, he will certainly explain what those differences make out.

I can mostly agree with Wzkit on the discription of the sound which also applies for W&L. I hope there is indeed a bit more richness in the treble sound of a Sauter or Ibach grand for triple to quadruple the price of a W&L. I did however prefer the W&L 161 over a Yamaha or Kawai grand which cost 50 to 100% more.

schwammerl.

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#162943 - 02/18/07 07:52 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Wzkit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 1005
Loc: Singapore
Schwammerl,
I played both the Hailun and Wendl & Lung side by side in the same showroom, and to the best of my ability, I could discern no noticeable difference in performance between the two. Apart from the name on the fallboard, both pianos were basically identical in touch and tone. Neither were the price differences significant.
As for the description of the sound, that is my own subjective opinion and perception. In any case, a "thinner" treble does not in any way negate the positive impression I have of this piano. Like I said, its performance must be put in perspective against its price. If one can afford and is willing to pay extra for the German piano, then that is his personal choice. Whether one is willing to pay 3 or 4 times more for the German piano is matter of personal preference and means.
_________________________
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard

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#162944 - 02/18/07 01:45 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Wzkit

That's interesting you played W&L and Hailun side by side in the same showroom. Are there indeed dealers in the States who carry both brands?
Playing a Hailun and a Steigerman side by side in the same showroom could be even more reveiling for the North American market.

I do have any doubt that the German top brands like Sauter are still better soundwise. Only the mid-segment Japanese have something (the better chinese pianos) to be worried about.
Apart from sound there are of course other elements like built quality, action touch, resell value etc. which influence choice and price difference.

schwammerl.

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#162945 - 02/18/07 01:53 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Wzkit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 1005
Loc: Singapore
Schwarmmel,
The dealer in question was not in the States, but here in tiny Singapore. What attracted me to Hailun/Wendl & Lung was the price. Regardless of the name on the fallboard, you are quite right that for that kind of price, the Japanese had better be worried! Personally, I wouldn't mind getting one of their uprights, just as a practice instrument.
_________________________
Sauter 185 Delta with accelerated action and burl walnut fallboard

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#162946 - 02/18/07 03:56 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7188
Loc: torrance, CA
Thank you Wzkit and Schwammerl for all the information. I did inquire by E-mail through the Wendl and Lung website a while back not even realizing it was a Wailun built instrument. I never got a reply. I think the E-mail routing was direct to Wien. I may have sent to the incorrect address.

It's interesting that Schwammerl should mention Kemble / Yamaha. I've had occasion to play three Kemble uprights in my area in the past few weeks and they were all very suited to my subjective taste, a little brighter and nearer in the treble than the understated European pianos, and much less penetrating in the treble than the Yamaha, kind of midway between. I'll probably draw fire for saying these things here, but it's just a personal opinion. A salesman told me his Kemble was a rebadged Yamaha, but it was no Yamaha soundwise. I don't know if it's the sounding board, the belly, or what but I think it's more than the prep. It was a moot issue since the Kembles are past my price point anyway, but I was and am tempted to spend more for the sound that I heard.
In any case it sounds like the Wailun has some merit. and I should make a point to check the Wailun pianos out. Maybe someone on the forum will step forward to reveal himself as the new dealer in my area.

Thanks again
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#162947 - 02/18/07 04:25 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
turnadot:

Perhaps this website will help your search.

www.hailunusa.com/news.shtml


EDIT: Just noticed you already looked there. Sorry.

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#162948 - 02/18/07 07:30 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Dino_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 111
Loc: So. Cal.
Hi Turnadot,

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Steigerman “Premium” line is made in the Hailun factory located in Ningbo, China. The pianos are the same in scale and design with a few differences:

• The Steigerman "Premiums" also come with Renner hammers and are also available with Renner actions in the grands.

• The Steigerman “Premiums” only use vertical models with agraffes. I am not sure about the Hailun verticals as the factory does make some without agraffes.

• The Steigerman “Premiums” have some additional cabinet detailing added such as a violin shaped lid-prop, molding added to the grand legs,brass trim on the lyre, different shaped music racks, etc. Essentially minor differences.

• All the Premiums have copper colored plates and black muting felts. The color is similar to Schimmels and Bosie’s plate color. Esthetics only but looks really nice with the black felts.

• Steigerman also employs our own QC inspectors which go over every “Premium” piano after the factory inspectors finish with them. In addition, I am there myself every couple of months to oversee production and QC methods. This extra attention to QC has made a big difference in the quality of our products in not only our “Premium” line but in our “Classic” line of pianos from the Beijing Xinghai factory as well.

Should you like to try some of our new "Premium" pianos, we presently have dealers in the LA area. Please contact our main office in Canada for the location nearest you. 1-888-651-8119

I hope you enjoy the ride!
_________________________
Dino Flacco
Steigerman Music corp.
U.S. sales and marketing

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#162949 - 02/18/07 11:42 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
• The Steigerman "Premiums" also come with Renner hammers and are also available with Renner actions in the grands.
We found the Renner hammers particularly good for voicing the piano in the treble, giving it a rather sweet and resonant tone in this otherwise often harsh or thin sounding part of a piano.

The Stei 123 upright, a piano which actually sounds better than many 52" uprights I have ever played before, has become a great success for us.

As a result of its truly amazing tonal volume and richness of sound - and with the new Stei 125 just coming onto market - we have discontinued to offer anymore any grands under minimal size of 5'2".

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#162950 - 02/19/07 09:59 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
Turandot,

I spent a lot of time in the Hailun booth at NAMM, and I can tell you that this is a very impressive piano. I was able to meet Hailun C. as well as their management, and I think is definately a piano you will want to try out.

Good Luck!

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#162951 - 02/19/07 10:02 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
oh yeah I forgot to mention... Some features of the piano such as action, and hammers as an example can be upgraded to Renner as well.

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#162952 - 02/19/07 11:34 AM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Dino_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 111
Loc: So. Cal.
I am not questioning Terry Wilson’s integrity, but the information he is giving is not really accurate. According to Steigerman’s contract with the Hailun factory;

• Steigerman retains the exclusive right to use Renner Hammers in North America combined with the regular factory production action.

Steigerman paid the Renner Company in Germany a great deal of money to travel to Vienna, Austria to measure all three grands for action production. If Hailun were to do the same, then they too would have specifications to provide Renner for action production, only then also using Renner hammers. As of yet, I do not believe that has happened. An independent dealer could also do the same however the cost would be prohibitive. Initially we thought that it would be a nice option to have grands available with the “sizzle” of Renner action. After ordering pianos made with full Renner actions, we have come to the conclusion that the normal factory action is so good, an “upgrade” to a full Renner action is not necessary or worth the additional cost. The Renner hammers do provide a superior tone I believe and a much great malleability as well.

In addition to the exclusivity on Renner hammers combined with the normal factory action, Steigerman also has an exclusive in the North American market on:

• “Schwaiger” produced soundboards for both vertical and grand pianos.

• “Bosendorfer Frame Color” for use in North America on both vertical and grand pianos.

Everything else in the scale and design of the Hailun pianos and the Steigerman “Premium” pianos is the same or is available to both parties on a non-exclusive basis.

We have been importing our “Premium” pianos from Hailun for only about 6 months now but in a short time have sold through a great deal of our “EuroAsian” hybrids. We are now waiting for the completion of our 15th container (about 27 units per container) of “Premium” pianos and we continue to slowly add dealers across the U.S. and Canada. We did not want to ramp-up too quickly as we have been making small changes to the production up until recently. We now feel that we have the design dialed-in perfectly.

Terry Wilson was correct in saying that the Hailun pianos are “very impressive”. I know Mr. Hailun Chen very well and he is committed to producing the best pianos to come from China. He has gone to great lengths to insure that his design and production is top-quality by employing engineers and technicians such as:

• George “Frank” Emerson – Formerly of Mason & Hamlin and Baldwin is the factory’s Chief Designer.
• Zlatkovic Sibin - From Europe who brings his experience with Bosendorfer into the factory is in charge of tuning and voicing in the factory.
• Peter Veletzky – From the Wendl & Lung family in Austria is the factory’s Senior Technical advisor.
• Ema Shigeru – Brings manufacturing expertise from his 30 years at Kawai.

We at Steigerman are proud to be associated with Mr. Chen, his factory and the talented technical team he has assembled.
_________________________
Dino Flacco
Steigerman Music corp.
U.S. sales and marketing

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#162953 - 02/19/07 12:05 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
I am not questioning Terry Wilson’s integrity, but the information he is giving is not really accurate. According to Steigerman’s contract with the Hailun factory;
Hey Dino,

I am only repeating what I was told, I don't know the inner workings of your relationship with Hailun, and definately want to say if I misunderstood then my apologies.

In all fairness and in full disclosure I must say in playing, and seeing both the Steigerman and the Hailun at NAMM they are both very impressive. Anyone who would want to discount their quality based on the fact that they are made in China really needs to play and hear them before making a judgement.

The thing that impressed me about the Hailun piano besides the piano itself is the owner and management. Mr. Hailun is very proud of his piano to the point of putting his own name on it. I think that speaks volumes to the quality of the piano.

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#162954 - 02/19/07 12:19 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10362
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
 Quote:
Mr. Hailun is very proud of his piano to the point of putting his own name on it. I think that speaks volumes to the quality of the piano.
The sooner that happens for all Chinese makers the better. But I'll bet it is accompanied by a narrowing of the price gap between them and the rest.

We discussed this thoroughly in other threads. As quality goes up in China price likely will be rising as well. This will occur for at least two reasons. The first is that quality is related to labor skill, and labor skill is highly correlated with wages. As the skill and experience level of Chinese piano labor rises, those workers will be able to leverage higher compensation. The second force is overall wage gains in China. As China develops the demand for labor is rising and this is putting strong upward pressure on all wages. Piano production is fairly labor-intensive, so expect the price advantage on Chinese pianos to narrow over time.

And then, we'll have all those Indian stencils next. \:D :p
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#162955 - 02/19/07 12:23 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10476
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
 Quote:
Mr. Hailun is very proud of his piano to the point of putting his own name on it. I think that speaks volumes to the quality of the piano.
The sooner that happens for all Chinese makers the better. But I'll bet it is accompanied by a narrowing of the price gap between them and the rest.

We discussed this thoroughly in other threads. As quality goes up in China price likely will be rising as well. This will occur for at least two reasons. The first is that quality is related to labor skill, and labor skill is highly correlated with wages. As the skill and experience level of Chinese piano labor rises, those workers will be able to leverage higher compensation. The second force is overall wage gains in China. As China develops the demand for labor is rising and this is putting strong upward pressure on all wages. Piano production is fairly labor-intensive, so expect the price advantage on Chinese pianos to narrow over time.

And then, we'll have all those Indian stencils next. \:D :p [/b]
And Dad ther is another critical factor. That is the tremendous pressure the World Bank and others are putting on China to re-value their currancy the yuan. It is inevidable and will raise the prices of all Chinese exports.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#162956 - 02/19/07 12:32 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
And then, we'll have all those Indian stencils next.
Are you referring to electric razors again? \:D

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#162957 - 02/19/07 12:37 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7188
Loc: torrance, CA
Mr. Flacco

Thank you for all of the details of the different instruments. I appreciate especially that you don't denigrate 'standard' Hailun pianos in listing the Steigerman upgrades, also that you do mention that some of the differences are cosmetic. As to Mr. Wilson's comment, he complimented Hailun based on his impressions at NAMM. If he is off in one detail of the European 'upgrades' available, I assume that things are currently so convoluted in the contracting of Chincese pianos to Western distribution channels that it would be well-nigh impossible for anyone to have a handle on all up-to-date information at any given moment.

To be perfectly honest, when I looked at the Hailun website and saw the company name on the fallboard, that made an impression on me as a consumer. I thought....a Chinese piano that is willing to put its Chinese name on a piano and not worry about having a bought and paid-for German name, now that's worth looking into (at least for me). When the replies came in to my thread, and I started hearing about the Wendl and Lung pass-through in Vienna and the Steigerman premium branding, I started thinking....here we go again. I'm not trying to be critical here of the pianos and what upgrades may do to enhance their quality. I'm just commenting on the frustration of a consumer in this marketplace. I recall an old Norbert post on Piano World where he made the point that his shop at that point was carrying only Steigerman premium as opposed to Steigerman, due to significant iprovements in quality. I remember thinking that I wouldn't appreciate that news if I had bought a non-premium Steigerman a few months before. I also thought....what's next...a Steigerman premium platinum six months later.

So let me ask you a question since you have been so forthright. Who's to blame for all the confusion. Is it the Chinese manufacturers who sell contracted pianos out the front door of the factory and then sell duplicates or near duplicates out the back door to anyone else?
Is it western-style marketing that feels a distribution chain must be branded with some German or pseudo-German sounding name....even in some cases to the extent of different names in adjacent western countries? Is there a perception in North American marketing that western consumers just won't buy a Chinese piano at this point unless it has some Renner, Abel, Dehonit, Delignit etc...goodies inside? Is it something else? I can't believe it's technological innovation.

Also, I have one specific question for you. Since you state that Steigerman premiums were fitted for Renner components in Vienna, should I take that to mean that Steigerman premium pianos are identical to Wendl and Lung, or is just a geogaphical coincidence?

Thanks again for being so forthright.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#162958 - 02/19/07 12:40 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Love Pianos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
I too saw the Hailun pianos at Namm and was Highly impressed. Great piano.
_________________________
a piano salesman

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#162959 - 02/19/07 12:53 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7188
Loc: torrance, CA
I just noticed that while I was writing my post, there appeared some other posts that have the potential to derail this thread into another PSS related catfight.

If this is anyone's intent, please keep your decorum. A catfight with cheapshots hurled back and forth makes everyone involved look bad, right or wrong.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#162960 - 02/19/07 02:36 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Dino_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 111
Loc: So. Cal.
Hello again Turandot,

To address some of your comments and questions:

 Quote:
If he is off in one detail of the European 'upgrades' available, I assume that things are currently so convoluted in the contracting of Chincese pianos to Western distribution channels that it would be well-nigh impossible for anyone to have a handle on all up-to-date information at any given moment.
I am sure you have up-to-date- information concerning your personal business just as I have up-to-date information concerning Steigerman’s. It is best for others to not make statements of fact about issues which they are not close to and of course if speculating, then to say so. In addition, I feel that the addition of Renner hammers are a significant upgrade however, to be fair, I believe that other high-quality hammers such as Abel might perform just as well.

 Quote:
Who's to blame for all the confusion. Is it the Chinese manufacturers who sell contracted pianos out the front door of the factory and then sell duplicates or near duplicates out the back door to anyone else?
Is it western-style marketing that feels a distribution chain must be branded with some German or pseudo-German sounding name....even in some cases to the extent of different names in adjacent western countries? Is there a perception in North American marketing that western consumers just won't buy a Chinese piano at this point unless it has some Renner, Abel, Dehonit, Delignit etc...goodies inside? Is it something else?
I can’t say that there is anyone to blame. I do know that when I worked for Young Chang for many years, it was very hard to sell pianos to consumers which said “Young Chang” on the fallboard, no matter the quality or the price. I have worked many sales and heard the comment “I wouldn’t have “Young Chang” in my living room” countless times. I have heard the same of Samick, Hsinghai, Hyundai and others to name a few. Manufacturers and distributors are just reacting to what consumers demand I believe. Initially Yamaha had a similar problem. It took them many years to develop their name into acceptance. It is an accomplishment which is very hard to duplicate, no matter how earnest the intention.

Our using European components in the construction of Steigerman "Premium" pianos are not just for the "sizzle" but we feel that the addition of some of these featurs are truly performance upgrades.

 Quote:
Since you state that Steigerman premiums were fitted for Renner components in Vienna, should I take that to mean that Steigerman premium pianos are identical to Wendl and Lung, or is just a geogaphical coincidence?
I can’t speak for all of Wendl & Lung’s features but the initial scale and design of the pianos are the same. We were allowed to use pianos in their Austrian showroom for designing the Renner action models we produce.

The only pianos you will see from the Hailun factory in North America currently will be either from Hailun distribution or from Steigerman.

After all this, I hope that you too are impressed with pianos from the Hailun factory as some of the rest of us. My feeling is that our "Premium" pianos are the best available from any country at or near their price points.
_________________________
Dino Flacco
Steigerman Music corp.
U.S. sales and marketing

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#162961 - 02/19/07 04:03 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6180
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano Superstore:

Mr. Hailun is very proud of his piano to the point of putting his own name on it.
That is wrong.

There is no person named "Mr. Hailun" running the Hailun piano factory in Ningbo. (Dino can verify.)
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#162962 - 02/19/07 04:13 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Originally posted by Axtremus:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano Superstore:

Mr. Hailun is very proud of his piano to the point of putting his own name on it.
That is wrong.

There is no person named "Mr. Hailun" running the Hailun piano factory in Ningbo. (Dino can verify.) [/b]
Really? Could someone ellaborate?

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#162963 - 02/19/07 04:30 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10476
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dino:
I can’t say that there is anyone to blame. I do know that when I worked for Young Chang for many years, it was very hard to sell pianos to consumers which said “Young Chang” on the fallboard, no matter the quality or the price. I have worked many sales and heard the comment “I wouldn’t have “Young Chang” in my living room” countless times. I have heard the same of Samick, Hsinghai, Hyundai and others to name a few. Manufacturers and distributors are just reacting to what consumers demand I believe. Initially Yamaha had a similar problem. It took them many years to develop their name into acceptance. It is an accomplishment which is very hard to duplicate, no matter how earnest the intention.[/b]
A great analysis, Dino.

I was the oldest Yamaha dealership in the USA (1961-1998). It took them over 15 years to gain acceptance. People simply didn't want guests to see "Yamaha" on their piano, not matter how well it performed.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#162964 - 02/19/07 04:33 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
Ax

The HailunUSA website names Hailun Chen as the owner.

Partial quote:
“Our Chairman, Mr. Hailun Chen, embodies a truly entrepreneurial spirit and, at the same time, embraces traditional values,” said Ms. Perry. “His vision clearly reflects this. Ningbo is traditionally viewed as the birthplace of the first piano builder in China. Mr. Chen wants Ningbo to also be known as the home of the best piano built in China.”

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#162965 - 02/19/07 04:40 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Dino_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 111
Loc: So. Cal.
The Owner of the Hailun factory is Mr. Chen Hailun. Mr. Chen’s business card reads:

“Chen Hailun”
“Chairman Director”

In all fairness to Terry; as is customary in China, one’s last name comes first on business cards. If one was not familiar with Chinese customs or had not been formally introduced to someone, going by a business card for example, would be confusing.
_________________________
Dino Flacco
Steigerman Music corp.
U.S. sales and marketing

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#162966 - 02/19/07 04:45 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Really is there no Mr Hailun?

Then Wendl & Lung must be lieing when showing pictures of Mr Chen Hailun ( click Wendl & Lung History - 1990:4th picture form right): http://www.wendl-lung.com/Website/English/fs_wendllung.htm

Or the Swiss W&L distrubutor must then be wrong also (3rd and 4th picture): http://www.scanavini.ch/galerie.htm

schwammerl.

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#162967 - 02/19/07 05:35 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Steigerman paid the Renner Company in Germany a great deal of money to travel to Vienna, Austria to measure all three grands for action production.
This seems strange to me because W&L Vienna only carries two[/b] grand pianos: the 161 & 178. Why should they have had a 151 (5'-0") available at their premisses? (unless they would plan to integrate it into their product line in the near future)

 Quote:
The only pianos you will see from the Hailun factory in North America currently will be either from Hailun distribution or from Steigerman.
If we believe Peter Veletzky (W&L) the 115 (45 in. = 115 cm) upright should be an original W&L design (by Veltzky himself) which even excisted before W&L set up the collaboration with Hailun. I must quote him in German from the forum on VioWorld-Klassik, where in 2005 he intered into a rather fierce discussion on Chinese pianos:
 Quote:
Abgesehen davon beschäftige ich mich tatsächlich mit dem Design und der Konstruktion eigener Wendl & Lung Modelle, die mit dem bereits auf dem Markt befindlichen Modell 115 ihren Anfang gefunden haben und nie unter einem anderen Namen auf den Markt kommen werden.
; http://www.vioworld-klassik.de/go.php?ur...e=Neueinsteiger
I cannot find a Hailun 115 upright neighter on the Hailun China website nor on the U.S. site.

Apparently Wendl & Lung piano are available as such in North America (U.S.): http://www.pianofortechicago.com/

schwammmerl.

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#162968 - 02/19/07 07:10 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
Dino_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/02
Posts: 111
Loc: So. Cal.
Schwammerl,

 Quote:
Then Wendl & Lung must be lieing when showing pictures of Mr Chen Hailun ( click Wendl & Lung History - 1990:4th picture form right): http://www.wendl-lung.com/Website/English/fs_wendllung.htm

Or the Swiss W&L distrubutor must then be wrong also (3rd and 4th picture): http://www.scanavini.ch/galerie.htm
I do not think anyone was lying as you suggest. That is a rather strong accusation to make. I think that they were merley mistaken as to what they printed on their websites. If you read my earlier post, you will understand why that may have been.


 Quote:
This seems strange to me because W&L Vienna only carries two grand pianos: the 161 & 178. Why should they have had a 151 (5'-0") available at their premisses? (unless they would plan to integrate it into their product line in the near future)
You are correct in that the only pianos W & L handle are the larger grands. We never ended up ordering any 151’s with Renner actions ourselves. We decided the cost was too much to add at that price point. The Renner engineers felt that with the action drawings and specifications of all three models from the factory, and physically measuring the 161 and the 178, they could also then come up with an action to accurately fit the 151 should we ever decide to order any for that model.


 Quote:
If we believe Peter Veletzky (W&L) the 115 (45 in. = 115 cm) upright should be an original W&L design (by Veltzky himself) which even excisted before W&L set up the collaboration with Hailun. I must quote him in German from the forum on VioWorld-Klassik, where in 2005 he intered into a rather fierce discussion on Chinese pianos:
Yes, it is my understanding that the 115 model was Peter’s design. I do not understand your point however. The design is not exclusive to Wendle & Lung if that was your question.

 Quote:
Apparently Wendl & Lung piano are available as such in North America (U.S.): http://www.pianofortechicago.com/
A couple of years ago, give or take, this dealer did buy some Wendl & Lung pianos I am told but W & L is no longer distributing in the U.S. My statement concerning current distribution is accurate. Additionally, I do not believe that pianos from the Hailun factory which were made in 2005 accurately reflect the quality of the products presently being manufactured there.

I hope this answers your questions.
_________________________
Dino Flacco
Steigerman Music corp.
U.S. sales and marketing

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#162969 - 02/19/07 07:41 PM Re: Hailun, anyone?
turandot Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7188
Loc: torrance, CA
First, thank you to those who have posted here. You have supplied a wealth of factual information. I just hope I can remember it longer than fifteen minutes.

I wanted to follow up on one point.

from Steve Cohen
 Quote:
I was the oldest Yamaha dealership in the USA (1961-1998). It took them over 15 years to gain acceptance. People simply didn't want guests to see "Yamaha" on their piano, not matter how well it performed.
from Dino Flacco
 Quote:
I do know that when I worked for Young Chang for many years, it was very hard to sell pianos to consumers which said “Young Chang” on the fallboard, no matter the quality or the price. I have worked many sales and heard the comment “I wouldn’t have “Young Chang” in my living room” countless times. I have heard the same of Samick, Hsinghai, Hyundai and others to name a few.
An important question is whether the consumers who didn't want Young Chang or Yamaha in their house were satisfied to have the instrument in question knowing that it was made in Japan or Korea (in these two cases), and only wanted that others not notice the origin of their piano on the fallboard.

If all these consumers wanted was to hide the Asian origin of the instrument while being happy to have said instrument, then current Asian piano manufacturers could simply offer the application of a stencil of their house-brand German name as an optional upgrade and recoup the cost of the name acquisition from the consumers who wanted to pay for it. This would be similar to a motor vehicle vanity plate. Those with specific naming needs would pay to address those needs. The company could even offer a personalized stencil for the truly egocontric.

If, on the other hand, individuals do not want to have a Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian etc. piano in their home at all, and all of the stencil branding is an attempt to get around the issue, then it's a far different matter.

If you look at the information on the web supplied by piano manufacturers, retrofitters and distributors who offer their wares by carrying on the tradition of old piano manufacturers who went out of business decades ago (and that is as kind a way of stating the practice as I can think of), you find an untold wealth of information about the origin and history of the defunct company, often with photographs and testimonials culled from ancient industry publications. The need to buttress the acquired names with all of this completely irrelevant historical material would suggest that there is much more in play here than simply giving the Western market a name (or names) that is (are) more socially acceptable. Rather, it seems like information is being supplied that attempts to enhance the image of the name-acquiring company and in some cases to reassure the buyer that the company products have been in the marketplace forever and that the consumer can buy with confidence. Even if some would argue that is not the intent, that is certainly the result.

I'm not trying to point a finger at any particular company. There's enough of this "stuff" out there to fill a thick volume of European piano family history. It would be completely unfair to single out any company. Also, it would probably be premature to applaud a company that does not engage in this practice. That company has either already made its name the old fashioned way or has just chosen a different marketing strategy for its own reasons. It may stand on higher ethical ground, but that's not for sure, and things could change quickly.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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