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#168572 - 02/23/07 01:01 PM Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10523
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
This is probably too good to be true, but anyone looking to buy a good entry-level grand should take note. The Remington RG150 is a popular Indonesian-made, 4'11" entry-level grand, manufactured and distributed by Samick Music. Generally it sells for about $6000.

The Piano $uper$tore is advertising them for $3495 plus $750 for delivery. This price is well below the SMC published wholesale price, even after adding in the cost of delivery! The selling price is over 50% off of Larry Fine’s suggested price of $7590!

The listing found at http://www.pianosuperstore.us/store2/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=112 indicates that it is available in both Polished Ebony and Polished Mahogany, although there is some confusion as it also says it is a “demo”.

I even tried to buy one [/b] but the $uperstore has a policy of not selling to dealers without prior approval, and Mr. Wilson has emailed me that he is not willing to sell to me and cancelled my PayPal payment to him.

Some words of caution: SMC says that the Piano $uperstore is not an authorized dealership so it is unclear as to warranty.

In my personal opinion, I do not think the $uperstore will be able to fulfill orders for the RG150. I suspect that they are advertising them at below published wholesale to make “brick and mortar” Remington dealerships seem to be overpriced.

However, if they can do what they advertise, you can get a hell of a deal!
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#168573 - 02/23/07 01:07 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
So Steve,

As you were willing to buy one and be out $4,000 until it is re-sold, why not get a friend of yours to buy one with you providing discreet financing. Presumably your only financial risk (assuming the piano arrives) is the difference between what you pay wholesale and what you pay to PS.

Finally we then get to see a PanioSoupstore product. Though I would rather see a German Ellenburger. .....

The PS proprietor loses nothing as he has sold another unit.

Kind regards

Adrian

PS is Remington a common US product name - guns and electric razors spring to mind.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#168574 - 02/23/07 01:10 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2445
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
Did you notice the E!!enburg banner ad on that page? No fallboard decal.

:rolleyes:
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#168575 - 02/23/07 01:25 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Piano*Dad Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10406
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Steve,

Doesn't the little 4'11" Pearl River sell for about 5K? In other words, there are pianos in that class for about that price. Are the Indonesian Remingtons at a slightly higher price/quality point?

Interesting hypothesis about advertising a product that you cannot deliver in order to change the buyer's psychology toward competitors. But Adrian is right. That could be tested by anyone with a wallet. And I understand the reluctance to sell to another dealer.

Don't look at me that way! \:D :p

I already have two pianos crammed into my music room.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#168576 - 02/23/07 01:39 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
Well Steve,

You told me this was wholesale at NAMM. Are you saying i need to raise my prices? \:D

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#168577 - 02/23/07 01:40 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Kingfrog777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 243
Corrected. The piano cannot be sold at a profit for that price.
_________________________
Piano, pro audio,guitar and MI sales.
Yamaha, Pearl River, Bergmann, Remington.

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#168578 - 02/23/07 01:57 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
I don't think that is below wholesale at all.
Kingfrog777,

I can save you the trouble. It's not below. Steve wants to say on one thread that our prices aren't that great, and then on this thread there too good to be true. All of this is what I have said it has been from the start. The more Steve post topics about us, the more he is proving my point. I personally appreciate the attention.

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#168579 - 02/23/07 02:03 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
Double post

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#168580 - 02/23/07 02:06 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10523
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
I have the official Remington wholesale price list in front of me. It shows a cost above the price quoted on the $uper$tore website including delivery.

However, it IS true that SMC often discounts that price to dealerships, particularly larger volume dealerships.

The point here is that the price advertised is thousands below averege selling prices and that $uper$tore is NOT an authorized dealership for new Remingtom products.

I doubt that they will sell them at that price (in either P/E or P/Mah as advertised), but some other buyers will have to prove that.

If they will, even I will admit it is a great deal, but I'm not holding my breath.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#168581 - 02/23/07 02:11 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
Steve Cohen starts this thread by stating
 Quote:
Steve Cohen Said
The Piano $uper$tore is advertising them for $3495 plus $750 for delivery. This price is well below the SMC published wholesale price, even after adding in the cost of delivery! The selling price is over 50% off of Larry Fine’s suggested price of $7590!
Then when taken to task he say's

 Quote:
I have the official Remington wholesale price list in front of me. It shows a cost above the price quoted on the $uper$tore website including delivery.
Hmmmm. This is said while he challenges my character, ethics, and any other inflamatory remark he can make in other threads. I believe the general public can see what this is about.

Thank you for this post Steve. Through this your are revealing more and more to the general public how this industry needs price transparency, and my detractors are nothing more than competitors who can stand our internet based model.

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#168582 - 02/23/07 02:28 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10523
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
There is a vast difference between claiming [/b] that you are able to sell Remington RG150's at $3499 plus delivery, and actually selling them at that price.

Do you have them in-stock as the website indicates? Are you an authorized dealership for Remington? Are they covered by the Manufacturer's warranty?
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

Top
#168583 - 02/23/07 02:33 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Steve C asked,
 Quote:
Are they covered by the Manufacturer's [/b] [e.a.] warranty?

Top
#168584 - 02/23/07 02:41 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Naught Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 272
Loc: Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano Superstore:
Double post [/b]
That's not exactly true is it? I saw both posts and they had different text. In fact there were 3 posts inside of 15 minutes, that said basically the same thing only typed out differently. You sounded like a broken record till you did some editing.

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#168585 - 02/23/07 02:52 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Love Pianos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
 Quote:
Are they covered by the Manufacturer's warranty?
Waiting...
_________________________
a piano salesman

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#168586 - 02/23/07 03:29 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Originally posted by Naught:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano Superstore:
Double post [/b]
That's not exactly true is it? I saw both posts and they had different text. In fact there were 3 posts inside of 15 minutes, that said basically the same thing only typed out differently. You sounded like a broken record till you did some editing. [/b]
True, they basically said the same thing. I am on lap top on a wireless connection that goes in and out. I basically lost connection and re-entered my thoughts again to find the orinal post went through. I apologies for the double entry.

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#168587 - 02/23/07 03:47 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1323
So...Steve Cohen is apparently a sock puppet for PSS....

\:\)

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#168588 - 02/23/07 03:54 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Love Pianos Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
Now that you mention it, it would go to explain somethings.
_________________________
a piano salesman

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#168589 - 02/23/07 03:54 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Originally posted by FogVilleLad:
Steve C asked,
 Quote:
Are they covered by the Manufacturer's [/b] [e.a.] warranty?
[/b]
Yes they are.

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#168590 - 02/23/07 04:01 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Originally posted by J. Mark:
So...Steve Cohen is apparently a sock puppet for PSS....

\:\) [/b]
No you are J. Mark don't you remember? Wait a minute, maybe this entire forum is? \:D

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#168591 - 02/23/07 04:05 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
tjbsb Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 256
Loc: Houston, TX
Come on Piano Superstore answer the question. Do you have at least one in Remington RG150 manufactured by Samick Music in stock, ready to ship and covered by the a Samick Music warranty?

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#168592 - 02/23/07 04:21 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Originally posted by tjbsb:
Come on Piano Superstore answer the question. Do you have at least one in Remington RG150 manufactured by Samick Music in stock, ready to ship and covered by the a Samick Music warranty? [/b]
I've answered the question. Yes. Now why don't you ask Steve the person who started this thread why he has misrepresented the cost of the piano.

Again, my prices are not that impressive, or they're too good to be true. Which is it? I believe the arguments here are starting to reveal alot about our critics.

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#168593 - 02/23/07 04:28 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
Well if its anything like the combo industry, some of the big companies get discounts of up to 20% lower than our dealer cost, simply due to volume ordering.

How can we compete?
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#168594 - 02/23/07 04:29 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
Another question, why would you shortchange yourself by selling a grand for such a low cost/low profit. This is completely ruining the entire business devaluing pianos in general.
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#168595 - 02/23/07 04:52 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1323
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano Superstore:
 Quote:
Originally posted by J. Mark:
So...Steve Cohen is apparently a sock puppet for PSS....

\:\) [/b]
No you are J. Mark don't you remember? Wait a minute, maybe this entire forum is? \:D [/b]
Oh, yeah. I forgot.

However, if instead of being a sock puppet I was instead an unbiased, disinterested observer...I might begin to think you were right about the motives of a lot of people here....

But then, I'm just a sock puppet, so my views cannot have any value. In fact, I'm probably not even a real person.

\:D

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#168596 - 02/23/07 05:21 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
double post

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#168597 - 02/23/07 05:22 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
This is great guy's! This thread is the best entertainment I have had all day \:D \:D .

Ding-Ding... bell rings... referee says... gentlemen - back to your corners and get ready for round 3 \:D .

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#168598 - 02/23/07 05:28 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
ftp Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Philadelphia
Terry Wilson now has over 200 posts on PW. PW's purpose is to discuss pianos "It's all about Pianos" if I read the opening banner correctly.

Yet in all those posts he has never addressed fundamental questions about his Ellenburg piano.

And people's motives are to be questioned? Give me a break.

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#168599 - 02/23/07 05:55 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8583
Loc: Georgia, USA
Great post, fatheropianist.

Yes, I enjoy reading and posting to the Piano World forum and have purchased from the store here on more than one occasion; not to mention what I have learned about pianos here.

I've also learned a little about some aspects of the piano industry here (especially competition among dealers) that kind of surprises me a little.

I guess "all is fair in love and war and the piano industry".

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#168600 - 02/23/07 06:08 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PSS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 893
 Quote:
Yet in all those posts he has never addressed fundamental questions about his Ellenburg piano.
Wrong. If you will notice I very rarely start a thread. Most of my post have been defending character assault from competitors of mine in this industry. However, in one instance I started a thread "The Truth about Ellenburg Pianos". Within this thread I addressed several questions in which people have asked.

 Quote:
And people's motives are to be questioned? Give me a break
Wrong again. I have only responded to Steve's question in which on the first page of the thread Steve misrepresented the cost of a piano for the express purpose of furthering an argument he believes he has. The problem he has with his argument is it started off on a false premise. His use of circular reasoning has been exposed, and serves as a great illustration about what several other threads here on the forum have been about. When he started the title of this thread " Below wholesale - too good to be true", and then has to admit that the price is not below wholesale, it is not me that calls his motives into question, but his own argument.

FTP, if you are fair minded at all you will have to admit that the problem is I have competitors that don't like the way we publish pricing front and center on our web site, and then have the nerve to sell pianos anywhere in the US. Shame on us for selling pianos at low prices in Steve's territory. I doubt you will see it that way since you continue to pose questions on a thread not relevant to the topic.

Good Day, and thanks for posting

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#168601 - 02/23/07 06:15 PM Re: Below Wholesale - Too Good to be True?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Terry,

I think if you re-read Steve's posts a little more carefully, the first claims that your price is below the wholesale price, and then another says that official wholesale price on his list is above your advertised price. So I don't quite see the contradiction in that. It is merely expressing the same statement in two different ways.

Perhaps it would have been easier if he had written in German, so that someone from that famous Ellenburg family of pianomakers could have translated it for you? ;\)

-Michael B.
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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