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#101465 - 10/25/07 09:18 AM Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Hey all \:\)

I'm new to the forums here but am very interested in buying a piano. HOWEVER i have a relatively limited budget of around $AUD 6000... I think I would prefer to buy a new upright and I've looked around and would like the opinions of anyone on the Kawai K-series and Yamaha U-series.

What models can I expect to get with this kind of budget and how comparable are the K-series to the U-series.

Also the K-series have more models and I want to know which ones are on par to the Yamaha's U1, U3 and U5.

Many thanks \:D

So in short:
1. What can I buy with $AUD 6000 (Australian) and what models are more recommended?

2. What models are comparable with each other regarding the Yamaha U-series and Kawai K-series.

Note: I live in Western Australia and would most unlikely buy a piano from another state... Would most likely buy a piano from a local dealer/shop.
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101466 - 10/25/07 06:23 PM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
This strikes me as a such a broad topic...you could try searching the archives for the models you are interested in for starters...just click on "search" at the top of the page and type in your budget or a model you're interested in... I think if you contact your local dealers for models in your price range that would narrow it down... then you could search the PW archives for those.

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#101467 - 10/26/07 12:27 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Perhaps in Australia you are restricted to the 2 brands you mentioned.

In North America and Europe, you would have for your money a lot more interesting options...

Good luck in your choice!

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#101468 - 10/26/07 01:05 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
pevawi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
I've always seen it this way:

Yamaha U1 = Kawai K3
Yamaha U3 = Kawai K6
Yamaha U5 = Kawai K8

K5 is somewhere between U1 and U3 (more towards U3 I guess).

Retail prices in your country I don't know. You could try find some piano-stores with Google with prices on their websites. Or just call Yamaha/Kawai to ask for their retail prices that shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: You shouldn't pay retail price ofcourse but it gives you a idea.

I've seen/heard and played Yamaha U1/U3 and YUS3 (U3 versus YUS3 is not much different) and a Kawai K6. Needles to say which I liked more \:D . I'd like both their action but the sustain on the Kawai I saw is way better. But that you really should find out by yourself (play/hear them).
_________________________
Kawai K6

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#101469 - 10/26/07 05:13 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
hey guys thanks alot for the info \:D

there are other brands but for $6000 you can't really get many brands...

In $US dollars thats prob.. around $5000 or maybe less. I'm not too sure what's the exchange rate at the moment... \:\(

I'm open to other brands but maybe someone out there can suggest what brands are on a similar sound-wise level to these japanese brands for a similar price? There's a local dealer who sells european pianos but i have never played on one of them.

There's blenheim, petrof etc.

If i remember there's also a schimmel dealer out there but i don't know how much that's going to cost and whether it's the same or better quality than the yamahas and kawais.

Note: I'll only be able to afford an upright by the way... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Thanks again to all those who replied
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101470 - 10/26/07 10:01 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
pevawi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
You should look at the Petrof and the Schimmel. The Petrof is in the same price category as the Yamaha/Kawai. If you buy new I believe they are the same quality (some say Petrof need a bit extra prep work, don't know about that). The Schimmel is considered a better piano (german brand) I just don't like the tone (to clean) and touch (you can feel the dampers lift when pushing down at half the movement very well) but they are more expensive. Most dealers (three did!) over here try to convince you that a lower Schimmel is as good as a high Petrof/Yamaha/Kawai. I wasn't sure about that :rolleyes:

You can also look at Kemble (UK - Yamaha brand I believe) and I was very pleased with the sound from a Wilh. Steinberg. If you’re willing to go over budget a Seiler (didn't like the sound of the ones I've seen, but you might).

Just go out and try it out yourself. I can only give you biased opinions. They don't charge you for entering their store and play, they even play for free to demonstrate the piano's.
_________________________
Kawai K6

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#101471 - 10/27/07 09:17 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
haha thanks for the heads up pevawi =P I think i will go check out the european dealer \:\)

But right now I'm edging towards the Kawai. I just loved the touch and sound coming from it compared to the Yamaha. But i do remember trying out a bechstein upright which was smaller in terms of height with the yamaha u5 but sounded absolutely beautiful! The touch was extremely nice too.

The price tag wasn't though. $24,000, which was double the yamaha u5's ($12,000).

But will continue searching... no rush ;\)

Just one more thing... What's the best K-series model can i get with my budget?

approx $5000 US or $6000 AUD
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101472 - 10/27/07 11:46 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
One more thing, let's say the dealer tells me that the price for a particular brand new piano was $6000. Just how much lower can the price go?

What would be a reasonable drop in price to make sure that the dealer doesn't just get angry and kick me out of the shop \:\)

I just want to know how flexible prices are in terms of negotiating.
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101473 - 10/27/07 04:46 PM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
You have to visit dealers and try to establish a working relationship.

I like both Yamaha and Kawai and if limited to those two brands I would buy based on price. In other words which dealer would give me the best deal.
_________________________
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

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#101474 - 10/28/07 09:32 PM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Hrmm, went to another store where they sold used Yamahas and Kawais.

Just wondering, but how old can a piano be and still be in good quality (at least for these brands)?

Which years were 'good years' in terms of manufacture for Kawai and Yamaha? Or at least which years were the bad years? (If such a thing does exist in the first place of course)

Thanks in advance

Justin
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101475 - 10/29/07 12:32 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
pevawi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by nUtChAi:
One more thing, let's say the dealer tells me that the price for a particular brand new piano was $6000. Just how much lower can the price go?

What would be a reasonable drop in price to make sure that the dealer doesn't just get angry and kick me out of the shop \:\)

I just want to know how flexible prices are in terms of negotiating. [/b]
I don't know what the retail prices are in your country you have to find that out by yourself (or an other Australian member on this forum might know). The price-cut you can expect depends on what services you negotiate with it. I believe that 15%-20% including a first service tuning and transport is not over asking (transport without stairs).

Ask in at least three stores to make a final price on a piano you really like (make the one you like most the last one, and only argue for prices on that piano!). You get an idea on how flexible the prices are. Just be honest and tell them there are two other candidates. That will keep them sharp. And be sure to call them immediately once you made a decision to kindly thank them for their time and inform them that you bought an other one.

Your question about used piano's I've no idea. But I wouldn't compare used pianos versus new pianos but that’s just a personal thing for me.
_________________________
Kawai K6

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#101476 - 10/29/07 04:30 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Awesome advice pevawi. Thanks again! When you say the last one, do you mean asking the price on several DIFFERENT pianos within the store and the ask the one that I'm actually interested in last? Or do you mean to go to (at least) 3 different stores with the same model but go to the store with the best one last?

Thanks again pevawi! You're awesome
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101477 - 10/29/07 07:56 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
pevawi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
Select 3 piano's each one in a different store (makes 1 piano per store) that you would[/b] buy. Not necessary the same model/make but same league, I compared 2 different Petrofs (same height, liked them both) against one Kawai.

First ask for prices for the two you like less make sure they understand that you have two other candidates and it's only a matter which one is the cheapest (which is not complete honest because you might pay more for the piano you really like but if the deal doesn’t go trough you will buy one of the others) make sure you include things like transportation in the price to compare equally.

Tell them you wont be negotiating like: "this store can get me this for that" their price has to be really[/b] final...

Set a limit on what “THE” piano should cost (you can make your own calculations based on list-price versus quote from the other two piano’s). Make sure you know your limit before entering the final store. Once you are within sight-range of your piano all brain-functions will stop and you will buy \:D if you don’t have a good threshold.

Then go to the last store where the piano you like most (be prepared to walk out and buy one of the others based on the best price!). Tell them the same thing and let them make a price.

You can try to lower the price a bit by giving them your offer and tell them you will buy immediately if they match your price.

You can also use a common sales technique back to them (pretty harmless) just before you ask the price for the piano you ask what a extra item like a damp-chaser (installed!) would cost or a piano-lamp. Something you would take anyway (not a adjustable bench, they are included! Unless you wish a fancy bench). Then when they have given you a price on the piano you add the price for the item to it and the round it down (i.e. 6345 to 6200) to a nice number to your likings and give that as a final offer back with same remark: sold when matched.

This is how I did it I’m very pleased with the piano I got, very pleased with the price (I don’t think it was a “exceptional low” price but good enough and they deserve to earn some money as well) and I believe they where pleased as well because the sales was pretty painless.

The key is: be prepared to walk out and have a good alternative. If you don’t like the price well fair enough get in your car drive to the other store and make the sale there.
And of course: be polite and call the other two stores to inform them. And enjoy buying it!!!

I’ve contributed this to the all humble opinions section of this board.
_________________________
Kawai K6

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#101478 - 10/29/07 07:57 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
pevawi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
double post...
_________________________
Kawai K6

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#101479 - 10/29/07 08:35 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Omg you a real legend pevawi! Thank you so much! I will take heed of what you said and try to apply it.

This stuff is really gold \:D

Hopefully I can get a new piano by the end of the year \:\)

Once again,

THANKS ALOT TO ALL THOSE WHO REPLIED TO THIS POST SO FAR. Esp to pevawi for his endless advice \:\)

Justin
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101480 - 10/30/07 10:55 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
RichterForever Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 150
Loc: Singapore
It was down to the K8 and YUS5 for my piano hunt. Finally picked the YUS5 as I felt that it had the overall edge, albeit slight, in tone colour, touch and build quality. That's of course only MHO.
_________________________
RichterForever
Yamaha C3, Yamaha CVP 405

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#101481 - 11/01/07 03:50 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Haha congratulations on your purchase.

I won't be able to go piano shopping for 2 weeks due to the fact that i have exams...

But i'll still check on this forum for more advice on what i should do!
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

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#101482 - 11/04/07 08:30 AM Re: Kawai K series vs Yamaha U series Uprights
cps Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Sydney, Australia
$6000 won't get you a new U1, but it will get you a new T121, maybe with a bit of change. Can't comment on the Kawai prices though. Good luck with the search.

Greg
_________________________
Yamaha accredited tech (Japan & Australia)
Technician for www.loganspianos.com.au

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