Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
141 registered (accordeur, 36251, antony, anotherscott, 43 invisible), 1720 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#151141 - 01/26/08 10:16 PM Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
pt4kdz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Winter Springs, FL
First, I'd like to thank you for all the great information you have all posted in previous forums. It has already been a great help to me in my search for a piano. I'd also like to thank you in advance for any input you can give me as well as your patience with a newbie and a relative piano novice.
I am looking for a grand in the $10k range, though I could go a little higher for a great value. I have two options which I am strongly considering:

1. A grey market '93 Kawai NX-40 (6'1")for $10,600. I have had difficulty finding much info on this model, but was told it is comparable to the RX line. It appears to be in great condition and has a very nice sound and feel to my relatively untrained ears. It has a 4-year warranty which will be extended to 8 years if I have a dehumidifying device installed. I know there is controversy about whether these grey market pianos will have problems due to humidity issues, but am I right in believing that this may not be such an problem for me as I live in Florida? Fine seems to indicate that he doesn't think it's such a problem. If this piano really is comparable to an RX-3, it seems like it would be an amazing value at this price. And if there was an issue, would it be revealed in the 8 years covered by the warranty?

2. The second piano is a new Brodmann 187. The asking price is $12,900, but I believe I could get it closer to $10,000. I have to say that I liked the sound and feel of the Brodmann a little better than the Kawai, although the Brodman was in a smaller recital room while the Kawai was in a warehouse, so this may have effected my perception. The Brodmann had a wonderful sustain, which I've seen in previous forums has been a point of criticism by others. Also, the Brodmann's plate has been signed by two of Brodmann's pianists who apparantly had a recital at the store. I'd be interested to know what you think of that - would that increase or decrease the value of the piano? Would any of you be caught dead with a signed piano? Thank you for forgiving my complete ignorance in this area.

I would greatly appreciate any input you can give on either of these pianos. I understand that though the Brodmanns appear to be quality pianos, especially for the price, they have not yet been proven and I would be assuming some risk in buying one. I also know I may be assuming some risk in buying a grey market Kawai, especially a model that is not common in the States. But I am willing to take some risks in order to find what may be a great deal and will at least be a good piano for myself and my children to enjoy for years to come. Thanks again! -Trevor

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

 

#151142 - 01/26/08 10:29 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Deerwood Dad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 478
Loc: Minneapolis
While "unproven", I would purchase the Brodmann in a heartbeat before forking out anything approaching your price on the older Kawai. It would be no contest in my mind whatsoever. Just my opinion.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A (2006); Yamaha P140

Top
#151143 - 01/26/08 10:58 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
NX 40 is not a US market piano and does not compare to a new RX 3 except for size. No Millennium III Action in an NX 40.

The warranty is not a Kawai factory authorized warranty.
Kawai America will not supply replacement parts for grey market pianos.
The warranty of 4 - 8 years from the dealer, is only as good as the dealer's word and if he goes out of business your warranty is zilch.

Future resale and or trade in value would most likely be terrible.
The NX 40 is about 15 + years old ..
The asking price is ridiculous ...
Some other NX 40 prices I've seen on the internet are ridiculous too. Way way overpriced in my opinion.

New Kawai piano info here: www.kawaius.com

Don't be in a big hurry.

Check out some new Kawai RX and GE 30 grand pianos and other brands first, then buy the Brodmann if you like it better than all the others you've tried.

All the best,

Bear
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

Top
#151144 - 01/26/08 11:01 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
pt 4kdz,

If you want more information (even have a look at or listen to) a Kawai NX-40, follow the link below (scroll down to item nr #G22):

http://rickjonespianos.com/grands.htm

As to the quality of the Brodmann BG 187 you will find many positive critics on this forum if you do a search on it.
It is less easy to comment on the price you've been quoted for it from Europe.
The only thing I can say is that I do not understand Brodmann's pricing policy.

During the last quarter of 2007 Brodmann increased the prices in Europe for the BG 187 by about 30%; the MRSP overhere is now $23,000. To get it down to even $12,900 it would need to be discounted by 44%.
The lowest price I could find here (Ireland) was $16,920 (probably an old price from before the increase); this is still 31% above the price you've been quoted.

So if I was in for a BG 187 I could better have it shipped from the U.S.?!

schwammerl.

Top
#151145 - 01/27/08 12:27 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
pt4kdz:

Since you're new to this Forum, this being your very first post - would you have the kindness to tell us where exactly you saw the said Brodmann grands for the price you quoted above?

Being Brodmann dealers ourseelves, we are presently backordered of these pianos and can hardly buy them for anything near those prices.

Are things so bad in some areas that some dealers are starting to close their doors perhaps?

We could be interested to purchase any surplus stock should this be the case here!

Thank you very much for your help - much appreciated!

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#151146 - 01/27/08 12:31 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21922
Loc: Oakland
 Quote:
So if I was in for a BG 187 I could better have it shipped from the U.S.?!
That would probably make it grey market!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#151147 - 01/27/08 01:09 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Frank K Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 135
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
pt4kdz:

Since you're new to this Forum, this being your very first post - would you have the kindness to tell us where exactly you saw the said Brodmann grands for the price you quoted above?

Being Brodmann dealers ourseelves, we are presently backordered of these pianos and can hardly buy them for anything near those prices.

Are things so bad in some areas that some dealers are starting to close their doors perhaps?

We could be interested to purchase any surplus stock should this be the case here!

Thank you very much for your help - much appreciated!

Norbert [/b]
I can't answer for him, but the only place I know of that sells Broadmann pianos near where pt4kdz and I live - Central Florida - is "Bob and Elliot's Piano Shoppe". They have three locations: Altimonte Springs, Orlando, and Sanford. All three locations are a short distance from where pt4kdz lives: Winter Springs.
_________________________
1909 Briggs 6'2" Grand

Top
#151148 - 01/27/08 09:18 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
pt4kdz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Winter Springs, FL
Thank you so much for your fast and very helpful replies. It looks like the Kawai isn't the deal we thought it was and the Brodmann may be a much better deal than we thought. The Brodmann was at Bob and Elliott's as Frank K deducted. They had a Kawai RX2 right next to the Brodmann. The RX2 was the first piano he brought us to. I understand why Kawai's are so highly regarded, but I honestly was more impressed with the sound of the Brodmann, and at almost half the price it's quite tempting. Norbert, please don't run down here and grab it out from under me! Not until I make my decision, at least. \:\)

Anyone have any opinions on the autographs on it? I'm curious what you think about that and whether it would effect the value of the piano.

Many many thanks again!

Top
#151149 - 01/27/08 10:10 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7303
Loc: torrance, CA
The plate autographs will add nothing unless they are the autographs of top-drawer performers with very high name recognition.

On the other hand, if I were you I would definitely pin down the use history of that piano for in-store recitals, demos, etc. and ask how long the piano has been on the floor and whether it has been out on the road for promotional use and/or recitals.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#151150 - 01/27/08 02:00 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
dedee Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 6
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
- would you have the kindness to tell us where exactly you saw the said Brodmann grands for the price you quoted above?


Norbert [/b]
I was offered the 6'4" Brodmann for $12,000 - delivered - from Roger's in Hanover Mass...

Top
#151151 - 01/27/08 02:29 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Frank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 379
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
pt4kdz,

The Broadmann offered at that price falls in line with Larry Fines suggested list, even though we in the industry consider his prices often on the low side.

I know of a dealer that puts on sale/discounted the BG161 @ 16500.00 in stock and with no import duties to Canada (unlike the U.S.)and a $ on par seems a bit excessive.

Brodmann are very nice pianos and at the price you are quoted (or less) a very good deal.

Give it consideration.
_________________________
Frank Woodside
www.hzmpiano.com

Top
#151152 - 01/27/08 03:18 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
A few comments pertaining to the Kawai NX40. I've had many over the years and have 1 at present.
Personally it is a great performance piano for the $ if in newer low milage cond. I thought it was quite comparable to the earlier RX3 with same harp,duplex scaling,neotex keytops,slow fall fallboard.The action utilized the abs flanges with wood shanks. Seemed to perform and play great up to that Kawai japanese precision level. They are of gray market but their wholesale price from the japanese wholesalers is considerably less than an equivelent year RX3 due to mdl. recognition not as for the quality of the piano. In some respects it is more upgraded in it's cosmetics (ornate brass nose bolts etc.) If obtainable in new cond. I'll buy every one I can get. This is a thumbs up for the underdog.
Unfortunately due to my busy Namm scheduele I didn't really play the Broadman 187 but from everyones review, it must be nice.
Not to confuse the issue the new prototype 6'5" Hailun designed by Frank(scale designer) formerly from Baldwin and most recent M&H is killer. A colleague made mention that "this is what a Baldwin should sound like" The 7' prototype from reknown French custom scale designer ? was also exceptional for value plus performance. Needless to say the 5'10" Hailun got a thumbs up from all my piano professional dealers
whom I conversed with at or after the show.
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

Top
#151153 - 01/27/08 04:41 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
pianobroker,

As to compliment the "?" in:
 Quote:
The 7' prototype from reknown French custom scale designer ? was also exceptional for value plus performance
:

The French designer is Paulello: http://www.stephenpaulello.com/index.html

Buy the way in Europe it is no longer a prototype. I can be had as a Wendl & Lung 218 Concert Pro I Paulello for about $31,100.

schwammmerl.

Top
#151154 - 01/27/08 07:03 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
Buy the way in Europe it is no longer a prototype. I can be had as a Wendl & Lung 218 Concert Pro I Paulello for about $31,100.
This is true, Steigerman pre-sold one of these pianos to Europe as well.
[special deal for church...]

Which would also compare to this grand readily available on the market over here already:
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/grand_piano_2120.html

With some people having actually reported about this particular piano here on the Forum before.

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#151155 - 02/02/08 10:00 AM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
pt4kdz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Winter Springs, FL
Thanks all once again for your input. We actually just agreed to buy a 4-year old Boston GP-178 from a private seller. It looks to be in perfect condition, though we will of course have it checked by a technician. It has a beautiful mellow voice that will be great for classical music, though I did note a little muddiness in the low bass. I can live with that though. I think we got a steal at only $9000. I can't wait to get it in my house and start playing!

Top
#151156 - 02/02/08 02:17 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14266
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Congratulations - good buy!

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

Top
#151157 - 02/02/08 02:25 PM Re: Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
Congrats Sounds like a great deal. Your tech can juice the bass or ? if need be, No big deal
_________________________
www.pastperfectpiano.com
Largest selection in the USA
100+Steinway and M&H grands
Warehouse showroom Onsite Restoration
Preowned & Restored
Hailun dlr.818-255-3145
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z8RvhXGKzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo0zumHGgE

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
Christmas Lights at Piano World Headquarters in Maine 2014
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Need help picking a Beethoven Piano Sonata Slow movement
by oaklandraiders76
12/20/14 04:50 PM
What are some great ways to learn the blues?
by brucepiano
12/20/14 04:37 PM
Do you recommend a back cover on upright with Dampp-Chaser?
by thestar
12/20/14 03:56 PM
kawai model SA-8E upright
by EthanHawaii
12/20/14 02:28 PM
Piano Felt
by Modern Conner
12/20/14 01:37 PM
Forum Stats
77375 Members
42 Forums
160021 Topics
2349936 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission