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#194877 - 03/30/08 08:39 PM Essex EUP-123E
L1037 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 68
Hello,

I just got a new Essex EUP-123E in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model?

Thanks!
_________________________
As a wise man once sung, "and more, much more than this, I did it my way."

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#194878 - 03/30/08 08:47 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
If you liked it in the shop then I am sure you will enjoy it in your home. Congratulations! Enjoy!

If it is a done deal, why bother now asking about prices? You may just upset yourself unnecessarily if you hear that someone else paid less.

Retail prices vary from dealer to dealer depending on location and many other factors. Other buyers end up with remorse or regret when they come to PW trying to find out after purchasing whether or not they got the lowest price ever on a piano...Others will travel the continent looking for the cheapest price...Be glad you found something convenient and hopefully from a reputable dealer who will provide tunings in your home and respond to any inquiries as the piano settles in.

P.S. The publication Music Trades reported in May 2005 an agreement for Pearl River to build these for Steinway. The pianos were expected to reach the marketplace in 2006, so it may be that you have one of the first ones. There may be a relatively small number of new Essex owners who read PW regularly to respond to your inquiry.

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#194879 - 04/02/08 06:19 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
 Quote:
Originally posted by L1037:
Hello,

I just got a new Essex EUP-123E in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model?

Thanks! [/b]
Congratulations, L1037 (great name by the way!). The Essex EUP-123E is quickly becoming one of our best sellers given its structural integrity, power, touch, and look. Retail prices vary from dealer to dealer but, roughly, it is $7,999.

Out of curiosity, could you comment on your experience in shopping other pianos and what made you choose the Essex in the end?
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194880 - 04/02/08 06:37 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by L1037:
Hello,

I just got a new Essex EUP-123E in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model[/b][/QUOTE
__________________________________________________


Larry Fine has them listed in the 07/08 book for $5,890.00
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#194881 - 04/02/08 06:44 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Verhnjak:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by L1037:
Hello,

I just got a new Essex EUP-123E in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model[/b][/QUOTE
__________________________________________________


Larry Fine has them listed in the 07/08 book for $5,890.00 [/b]
Retail prices depend on dealer overhead, area of country where showcased, and margin philosophy. For the most part, Larry Fine's (one person's opinion) Steinway-family prices reflect the lowest price sold in larger markets and the middle price sold in small markets.

I'm basing this on discussions with other Steinway dealers and direct observation, not simply a formula which I apply to every piano under the sun.
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194882 - 04/02/08 07:45 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
I find it odd that Larry has prices listed for some pianos and dealers say the price is way too high in his book and there is plenty of room for negotiation.

And now you say the price is low in his book.

I'm confused, I thought Larry used the same formula for all wholesale prices.

I agree prices depend on demographics, but then
every dealer in the same area will have similar costs so the FORMULA would be the same.

Anyways I was just answering the question as you did. I was not aware his book posts the lowest prices.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#194883 - 04/03/08 09:45 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
Street price on a similar model Pearl River would be $3300 or less than half the price you were quoted by Madam. Nice piano but at Madam's price you could be into a brand new Yamaha U1 PM and still have money left over for a weekend vacation.
_________________________
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

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#194884 - 04/04/08 11:11 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
inanothershoes Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 3
Loc: New Jersey
I am not ssmart on these things but I recently looked at the Essex EUP-123E in Mahogany and was quoted a price of $5800 or 5900. I don't recall exactly but I was told that the Essex carries the Steinway name and that the price of the Steinway's, Bostons and Essex pianos was fixed and dealers were not allowed to sell below list.

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#194885 - 04/05/08 03:11 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
masaki Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 374
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Craigen,
 Quote:
a similar model Pearl River ..
What model of Pear River is similar to Essex EUP-123E?

Thanks,
Masaki

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#194886 - 04/07/08 06:37 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Verhnjak:
I find it odd that Larry has prices listed for some pianos and dealers say the price is way too high in his book and there is plenty of room for negotiation.

And now you say the price is low in his book.

I'm confused, I thought Larry used the same formula for all wholesale prices.[/b]

I agree prices depend on demographics, but then
every dealer in the same area will have similar costs so the FORMULA would be the same.

Anyways I was just answering the question as you did. I was not aware his book posts the lowest prices. [/b]
---I'm sorry your confused, Rod. But both you and I know that whatever retail price the wholesaler for the respective brand decides to tell Larry Fine is what he plugs in to his formula. I actually was told by an executive for a certain company that he purposely quoted retail prices high knowing that people would refer to the Piano Book, just as you do, as the Bible.
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194887 - 04/07/08 09:49 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1752
inanothershoes: In my experience, which is based on receiving sales flyers from authorized dealerships, prominent advertising in the local paper, and "personal" invitations to selection events. Steinway sales are advertised as "The piano that never goes on sale . . . is ON SALE!!!" My conclusion is that the Steinway family of pianos never goes on sale except when they go on sale, which they seem to do quite regularly. There have been other threads on this forum that refer to this phenomenon that you might want to check.

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#194888 - 04/08/08 12:20 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Verhnjak:
I find it odd that Larry has prices listed for some pianos and dealers say the price is way too high in his book and there is plenty of room for negotiation.

And now you say the price is low in his book.

I'm confused, I thought Larry used the same formula for all wholesale prices.[/b]

I agree prices depend on demographics, but then
every dealer in the same area will have similar costs so the FORMULA would be the same.

Anyways I was just answering the question as you did. I was not aware his book posts the lowest prices. [/b]
---I'm sorry your confused, Rod. But both you and I know that whatever retail price the wholesaler for the respective brand decides to tell Larry Fine is what he plugs in to his formula. I actually was told by an executive for a certain company that he purposely quoted retail prices high knowing that people would refer to the Piano Book, just as you do, as the Bible. [/b]
_________________________________________________

So what you are saying is that someone told Larry your wholesale price but they gave him a false low price?

And yes, I am very aware as I have mentioned before that some prices are high in the book/bible due to misrepresentation of reps or distributors. And some prices are low due to price increases especially for pianos coming from Europe or utilizing many parts from Europe.

I am not a disciple of Larry but I will quote his writing, not always as gospel.

May I suggest a passage from the Gospel according to Larry.
Page 113 verses 7 to 14 Titled List price. Please note, words are not in red.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#194889 - 04/08/08 12:41 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Frank Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 379
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Rod,
You are right. L.Fine quotes $ 5890.00 for List price. That price is arrived at by wholesale cost the dealer pays before freight from warehouse etc.
His formula is to take wholesale prices given to him by distributors/manufacterers and publish a list price under the same margin formula for all.
He states that in his book. He also states that some manufactuerers publish a list price that differs from his formula.
Check page 113 of the 2007-2008 supplement.
_________________________
Frank Woodside
www.hzmpiano.com

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#194890 - 04/16/08 10:57 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
L1037 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 68
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pianomadam:
 Quote:
Originally posted by L1037:
Hello,

I just got a new Essex EUP-123E in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model?

Thanks! [/b]
Congratulations, L1037 (great name by the way!). The Essex EUP-123E is quickly becoming one of our best sellers given its structural integrity, power, touch, and look. Retail prices vary from dealer to dealer but, roughly, it is $7,999.

Out of curiosity, could you comment on your experience in shopping other pianos and what made you choose the Essex in the end? [/b]
I noticed that this piano had a very nice and lively sound. In my opinon also, I thought it was the best looking one after about 30 other piano stores. Comparing this Essex to other pianos we looked, I liked the touch and tone on this one the best. I believe when looking at the Essex, I thought, this piano seems so much more alive than the others. Other pianos I looked at were Yamaha U-series (My personal least favorite), Young Chang, Kawai, and Baldwin. Lastly, the people there (Where I bought the Essex) were much more freindly and less in a rush to sell the piano.

Cheers!
_________________________
As a wise man once sung, "and more, much more than this, I did it my way."

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#194891 - 04/16/08 10:58 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
L1037 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 68
 Quote:
Originally posted by L1037:
Hello,

I just got a new Essex in Sapele Mahogany. I was wondering what people's experiences with this peticular piano and also, what is the retail price of this model?

Thanks! [/b]
_________________________
As a wise man once sung, "and more, much more than this, I did it my way."

Top
#194892 - 04/17/08 01:48 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7129
Loc: torrance, CA
L.

Bluebook lists the EUP123 in Sapeli mahogany at $5790. That's considerably less than Madam's $7999. so it may be out-of-date.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#194893 - 04/18/08 05:53 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
Turandot,

I was quoting retail, not lowest sale price. It goes without saying that Larry Fine's publication date is always behind the latest price increases that Steinway-designed pianos have (and its likely the same for most brands, but I cannot speak for them). Thus, you need to add approximately 5% to his pricing. Of course, despite price increases from the manufacturer, not all dealers decide to reflect this in their own pricing. Economic times, dealer overhead, exclusivity of brand representation, among other things, all play into pricing.
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194894 - 04/18/08 06:15 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7129
Loc: torrance, CA
Pianomadam,

Thanks for the response. I wasn't pulling the $5790 price from L. Fine's publication. I took it from Bluebook. Here is Bluebook's preface to its price lists.

 Quote:
There are no accurate current manufacture suggested retail prices. Retail prices are set by individual dealers. These are NOT manufacturers suggested list prices. Piano Dealers and Piano Factories are closing or cutting back in production because of prevailing economic conditions. There are no two piano dealers that are exactly alike and there are no two piano markets that are exactly alike. There are variations in dealer freight and delivery charges.

Many piano manufacturers now offering large discounts from wholesale prices to dealers. There are no accurate price guides or books because prices are changing so rapidly. Use this list as normal prices before discounts. Prices will differ from dealer to dealer. This is a good time to buy a piano, and prices may not be this good ever again. Use this as a starting point. By no means are these final prices. This is a work in progress and is currently being updated weekly with additional discounts and available information. Please mark this as a favorite and check back weekly for important pricing information.
To me, the interesting part of this preface is the notion that prices are really set by individual retailers. I believe that you and I agree on that. You mentioned as well that prices can go out-of-date quickly. I mentioned that the Bluebook price for that Essex may be out-of-date, so I think we agree on that as well.

One difference between us is that you feel I should add at least 5% to the Bluebook price to get a realistic selling price. Bluebook states that its prices are the baseline for applying discounts. I don't know about Essex specifically, but in many cases of pianos I have personally investigated using Bluebook as a baseline, the available discount does bring the selling price below the Bluebook figure. Incidentally, the spread between 5790 and 7999 is far more than 5%, even if I were to follow your advice and add to the Bluebook price.

I want to make clear that I am not disagreeing with you. I appreciate your answer. If you feel that the $5790 is the lowest possible selling price, I will take your word for it. I'm sure you know quite a bit more about Essex prices than I do.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#194895 - 04/18/08 06:20 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
Got it. I thought you were quoting Larry Fine. I should know better by now that you are not a Fine "sock puppet" \:\) . You had me scared there. By Bluebook do you mean an online pricing service? book in print? I'm assuming you are not referring to the Ancott directory?
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194896 - 04/18/08 06:28 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Hi Madam,

Here is the link. I'm sure you will just love having this at your disposal.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#194897 - 04/20/08 12:56 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 416
Loc: Southern United States
Thanks, Rod!
_________________________
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

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#194898 - 01/15/09 11:07 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
This thread is TERRIBLE. It is extremely misleading in price.

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#194899 - 01/15/09 11:13 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Steve Cohen Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10448
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
It is misleading in MANY ways.

I suspect that L1037 isn't an unbiased source.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#194900 - 01/15/09 11:25 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
I was told, by a rather reputable source, that one piano brand (name withheld) purposefully quoted an inflated 'cost' to LF to boost the retail price. This would allow a dealer of this particular brand (it was a OEM Chinese stencile) to show a tremendous discount as compared to the LF "average retail price".


I think we can put a lot of trust into the LF supplement, but Larry isn't the piano police. At some point, he's gonna have to take somebody's word for it. I can't imagine the manufacturers are all opening the books to him, and laying there bare naked business practices.

The one thing the supplement does well, is to allow the reader to compare relative cost of piano brands. Mason & Hamlin isn't that far off from Steinway at the retail level. Bosendorfer is almost twice as much, etc... As LF says, it "levels the playing field", provide, of course, that the raw data is accurate.
_________________________
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Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Seiler | Restored Steinway

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#194901 - 01/15/09 11:27 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
first.double.post.ever

and I know how I did it. fascinating.
_________________________
Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Seiler | Restored Steinway

BauerHouse Productions

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#194902 - 01/15/09 11:28 AM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
Why bring a thread back from march?
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

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#194903 - 01/15/09 12:20 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
it's an example of whoring around
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#194904 - 01/15/09 12:26 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 422
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
it's an example of whoring around [/b]
Wow.. classy. And total speculation.
_________________________
Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.

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#194905 - 01/15/09 12:33 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
it's a good pun all around tho. you have to admit...

(albeit unfortunate word choices and associations).

(perhaps, Diaphragmatic, you are unaware of the other pianomadam thread.)
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#194906 - 01/15/09 12:42 PM Re: Essex EUP-123E
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
A good example shows how wrong info. was provided intentionally.

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