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#250579 - 01/08/09 04:14 PM Acoustic foam
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Hi there,

I live in a small apartment. My grand sits in the living room taking up about 1/3 of the area. I would like to be able to play it with lid full open at fff volume anytime of the day and night while having not to bother my neighbour. I also want to improve the acoustics of the room so I can endure hours of practice without hurting my ears.

I am considering getting these acoustic foams called Sonex acoustical foam. Has anyone tried them? Are they just like big pieces of sponge? Is it recommended to surround the piano with a few pieces of that to achieve the desired effect?

Thanks
PNO
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#250580 - 01/08/09 04:24 PM Re: Acoustic foam
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
You have two different issues. The Sonex foam should work to improve the sound within the room. You will need to check with Sonex because they have a variety of products to address soundproofing, maybe another type of foam.
I found this site helpful for explaining soundproofing. esoundproof
Sonex offers additional drywall and Decibel Drop to address soundproofing, or other types of industrial foam, or curtains.

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#250581 - 01/08/09 05:09 PM Re: Acoustic foam
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Thanks guest! Sonex seems to be cheaper than some other alternatives but I want to make sure I am not paying for pieces of household sponge.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#250582 - 01/08/09 05:18 PM Re: Acoustic foam
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7165
Loc: torrance, CA
I've used products from this company to deaden sound and cope with poor room acoustics.

http://stores.ebay.com/Foam-Factory-Inc

One time I got a remnant big enough to cut and fit under a grand. It cost about $5 plus shipping. \:\) Another time I used a panel of eggcrate foam and spray-glued it to a wall behind a vertical. I don't know if this stuff is the ideal medium, but it's cheap and it served my purpose.

The way you describe your wishes -- lid open playing at fff without disturbing neighbors in adjoining apartments -- sounds impossible to me.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#250583 - 01/08/09 05:59 PM Re: Acoustic foam
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
pno, if budget is a concern, definitely try other methods. There are lots of discussions about rugs, wall coverings, blankets, pillows, for reducing sound, as well as improving the room's acoustics and I have used these methods, I haven't pulled the trigger to purchase the professional acoustic products yet. Here is another interesting discussion, it suggests looking for scraps and remnants Sonex or Auralex for smaller projects to save on expense. portable sound booth

To not bother the neighbor, you have to consider how sound travels through the floor and walls, windows, door, ventilation? etc. Your goal sounds very difficult, possible expensive for professional products if not impossible because of shared ventilation.

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#250584 - 01/09/09 10:40 AM Re: Acoustic foam
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Turandot & guest1013,

Thanks for the sites! I know it's not easy but I think it is still doable in my case, maybe not fff but probably f at night, fff in day time. The goal is to be able to play/practice most regular pieces freely without having to worry about volume being too loud for neighbours.

A question regard those "foam" that you have: are they just made of the same stuff as household sponge?
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#250585 - 01/09/09 11:00 AM Re: Acoustic foam
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Hi pno,

I'm inclined to believe you're asking too much. I built a room in my basement which is attached to the rest of the house only at the foundation. This room has two layers of 5/8" sheetrock on both sides (inside and outside). There is insulation within the framing. When in that room I can still hear my grand piano (which is directly above) being played mezzoforte. It's fairly quiet, but still audible. It wouldn't bother me if I was watching TV, but I wouldn't be able to fall asleep in there with someone playing the piano.

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#250586 - 01/09/09 11:46 AM Re: Acoustic foam
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7165
Loc: torrance, CA
Pno,

The cell structure of 'soundproofing foam' is different from that of a household sponge. The type of baffle design is a determining factor as well.

I think for your particular needs you should check out DJ forums. Your problem is one that DJ's deal with regularly in finding ways to practice at home. You could also learn a lot from wikipedia articles on interior sound baffle
design

The material is usually called soundPROOFing foam, but realistically, it is more for mitigating loud sound and controlling bad room acoustics.

Do you have neighbors above? below? on two sides?
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#250587 - 01/09/09 04:23 PM Re: Acoustic foam
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Steve,

I know it is hard, but I will try. \:D

Turandot,

Mine is a corner unit. I have only one neighbour that shares the same wall with my unit. It is an 8" thick solid poured concrete wall. I have never heard any noise coming through that wall from my neighbour. So I assume the wall is not a concern. No neighbour below. It is a shop and a mechanical room. Above my piano is my bedroom. So my upper neighbour is 2 levels above my piano.

The only place that I know for sure is a problem is the main door. Noise can go out through the main door to the hallway then enter other units through their doors. I live at the end of the hallway. So the no. of affected neighbours is limited. As long as I can keep the noise in the hallway under control outside my front door, my neighbour should be fine.
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#250588 - 01/09/09 07:10 PM Re: Acoustic foam
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7165
Loc: torrance, CA
Pno,

It's impractical to seal up the main door of course. \:D You need the airspace around it for opening and closing. So let's assume that you need some kind of sound barricade that can be moved around. The barricade should be taller and wider than the doorframe. If the door is hollow-core, sound will be travelling through it as well as around it. Even if it's solid core, it won't be as effective as that 8" poured concrete wall you described.

I would suggest a three-panel folding room divider kind of thing. You might find a tacky old one in a thrift shop. You could cover the surface on one side with 12X12 self-stick acoustic foam tiles or cut larger panels to fit and spray-glue them. If you're handy with woodworking, you could make your own folding screen with 1 X 2 X 8' pine boards and some hinges.

I'd use the screen one of two ways: whichever worked out best

a) as a sound-collector placed next to the open facing side of the grand

b) as a panel to completely cover the main door area when the need arises
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

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#250589 - 01/10/09 09:53 AM Re: Acoustic foam
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Hi Turandot,

Thanks for your suggestions! I have more or less the same line of thought - a movable set of self standing acoustic panels so I can try different configurations. I am searching for the most effective acoustic panel to achieve this and I am going to check out your sites. Thanks!
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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