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#599913 - 11/03/08 05:53 AM Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
The Fryderyk Chopin Society Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
The Fryderyk Chopin Society of Warsaw will hold the First International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs from 9-13 September 2009 in Warsaw.
For more information visit: www.konkurs.amator.chopin.pl

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#599914 - 11/03/08 07:51 AM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
Minaku Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 1226
Loc: Atlanta
Thank you for the information!

Why is this thread rated three stars?!? There's nothing to rate!
_________________________
Pianist and teacher with a 5'8" Baldwin R and Clavi CLP-230 at home.

New website up: http://www.studioplumpiano.com. Also on Twitter @QQitsMina

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#599915 - 11/03/08 01:00 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
After all the discussions about what it means to be an 'amateur' pianist, and whether or not people with music degrees should participate in amateur competitions, I had to go check out there rules on that front:

3. The Competition is open to persons of all nationalities who
- were born before or on 1 September 1984,
- do not earn their living from piano performance or instruction,
- are not studying piano at a music school / conservatoire or who completed their formal
piano studies not later than in 2005.


Interesting compromise on the music degree, requiring a 3 year gap in completion.

I would assume that "studying piano at a music school/conservatoire" and "completing formal piano studies" refers to being enrolled in a university or conservatory as a full time music student...not taking lessons from these places' community music programs or with professors as an amateur?
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My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.

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#599916 - 11/03/08 03:09 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
it still means that professionals (who may not be currently earning the living as pianist) will be allowed participate. if one has studied piano performance in music school or conservatory, one becomes a professional pianist technically, whether or not one is making living of it. i would doubt any amateurs without piano performance degree would be good enough to compete with those who have.

also, what about those piano teachers who have different day jobs and yet teach or play piano part time? i know a piano teacher who's IT programmer by day and teach piano nights and weekends, and has piano performance degrees from a couple of schools.

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#599917 - 11/03/08 03:28 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 6064
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
if one has studied piano performance in music school or conservatory, one becomes a professional pianist technically, whether or not one is making living of it. [/b]
Really? Well that's the disputed point, isn't it. There's a loose, everyday definition of "professional" which seems to mean "someone who's studied piano at college", or simply "a good pianist". But I've always understood the true meaning of "professional" is that one earns one's living from doing it[/b], like a professional golfer. If you're good you might be said to play like a professional (like a professional does, that is, presumably, well) but this has meant some people use it as a synonym for "accomplished" or "university-trained".
In other words, I think your definition is loose, signa, and not "technically" correct at all \:\) .
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#599918 - 11/03/08 03:37 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
you're right, but on the other hand, you have very loose definition about earning living as a pianist too, which is highly debatable.

'professional' also means that one is formally trained in a field. i remember that a graduate student in school once said to me that he's a professional engineer, meaning he's trained for it, even though he didn't hold a job for it yet.

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#599919 - 11/03/08 03:43 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 6064
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:

'professional' also means that one is formally trained in a field. i remember that a graduate student in school once said to me that he's a professional engineer, meaning he's trained for it, even though he didn't hold a job for it yet. [/b]
Sounds redundant to me. I would have thought "engineer" would have been enough. Unless there's a whole lot of engineers around who aren't trained. I think he should have said "qualified engineer". But maybe I'm a pedant \:\) .
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#599920 - 11/03/08 03:44 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18870
Loc: Victoria, BC
By definition, a profession is any vocation requiring a knowledge (through training and/or study) of some area of learning or science; therefor a "professional" is someone who has that special training. In everyday terms, however, "professional" generally means following that occupation as a means of livelihood or gain, does it not?

Once again, the grey area comes up concerning those who have had formal training and who have, at one time, earned their living from teaching or performing piano. The perameters are voiced in the present tense: "... those who do not (now) earn their living from piano performance or instruction." Similarly, once can have had formal training just as long as that formal training ended at least three years ago.

It would seem to me, as in the case of so many competitions, the playing field is far from level.

Regards,
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#599921 - 11/03/08 04:17 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
Well, I have a fairly recent Master's degree in anthropology, but I'm not a 'professional anthropologist'...I make my living as an administrative/executive assistant.

There's a big difference in being good enough to get a degree in many fields, and good enough to get a job! In my case, a job in that field is pretty much a professorship...I saw what a PhD's job looked like, and didn't want it enough to spend more years and more money in pursuit.

Everyone's definition of terms like 'amateur' is going to be slightly different. Personally I think that competitions that disallow those with degrees in music performance come closest to the spirit of the term.

I am, though, aware that a degree in music from Podunk U is very different than one from the Manhattan School or Julliard. I also found the 3 year gap above to be an interesting and possibly fruitful compromise...although 3 years is not all that long. Perhaps it's long enough for a person to decide they're not going to cut it as a pro and it's time to try amateur competitions \:D
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#599922 - 11/03/08 08:34 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:

'professional' also means that one is formally trained in a field. i remember that a graduate student in school once said to me that he's a professional engineer, meaning he's trained for it, even though he didn't hold a job for it yet. [/b]
Sounds redundant to me. I would have thought "engineer" would have been enough. Unless there's a whole lot of engineers around who aren't trained. I think he should have said "qualified engineer". But maybe I'm a pedant \:\) . [/b]
you're right again, and it's redundant. i was saying it by emphasizing the meaning of 'professional'. btw, BruceD might have explained it better than me.

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#599923 - 11/03/08 09:59 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
wr Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8410
 Quote:
Originally posted by ProdigalPianist:

I would assume that "studying piano at a music school/conservatoire" and "completing formal piano studies" refers to being enrolled in a university or conservatory as a full time music student...not taking lessons from these places' community music programs or with professors as an amateur? [/b]
That would be a sensible assumption, but who knows what they really mean. Don't forget that Jon Nakamatsu won the Cliburn when he was only taking private lessons and his real profession was teaching German; it's a little hard for me to wrap my mind around the concept that an "amateur" would win that competition.

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#599924 - 11/04/08 05:34 AM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1274
Loc:
If someone spends 10 hours a day in the office, and then teaches piano for a couple of hours a couple days a week, to me she's not a pro.

Basically because that person can't spend the whole day, or most of it, at the piano.

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#599925 - 11/06/08 05:32 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1538
 Quote:
Originally posted by The Fryderyk Chopin Society:
The Fryderyk Chopin Society of Warsaw will hold the First International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs from 9-13 September 2009 in Warsaw.
For more information visit: www.konkurs.amator.chopin.pl [/b]
Do you have the English version?

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#599926 - 11/06/08 06:02 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1225
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
top right of that page...
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#599927 - 11/06/08 09:52 PM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
chopin952 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 492
Loc: North Carolina
Sigh. What a great opportunity that would be. If we could just take time off from our "professions" to practice and polish some pieces. Work and family life would only allow me to go to such an event cold and unprepared.

The range of skill level would probably be very wide. I hope they release video recordings of the competition. It would be a good learning experience for those wanting to enter the Second International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs.
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#599928 - 11/09/08 01:42 AM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
jonchik Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/08/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Ternopil, Ukraine
Looking for a one or two round piano competition somewhere in europe...end of 2008 or beginning of 2009. Anyone know of any? I was told that there are many in italy, but haven't found too many.

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#599929 - 11/12/08 05:41 AM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
The Fryderyk Chopin Society Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
 Quote:
Originally posted by RonaldSteinway:
 Quote:
Originally posted by The Fryderyk Chopin Society:
The Fryderyk Chopin Society of Warsaw will hold the First International Fryderyk Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs from 9-13 September 2009 in Warsaw.
For more information visit: www.konkurs.amator.chopin.pl [/b]
Do you have the English version? [/b]
Yes, we do have the English version - see the right upper corner

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#599930 - 11/12/08 06:09 AM Re: Chopin Piano Competition for Amateurs
Bart Kinlein Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 715
Loc: Maryland
Being a trained engineer (but not a "Professional Engineer), I can offer a little insight into that term. "Professional Enginer" is used (or only should be used) by an engineer who has passed the professional engineer requirements. These (at least in my time - late 50's) included samples of work done and exams. It was pretty tough to complete and would have required about 3 years of work experience to qualify. If one met the requirements, one was granted the right to use the letters PE after their name. I don't know of a similar situation in music performance, although for piano technicians the term RPT is similar, I suppose.
_________________________
Steinway 1905 model A, rebuild started 2008, completed 2012
Yahama CVP-401
Will somone get my wife off the Steinway so I can play it!

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