I'm still on the lookout for a better piano than what I have now. I've been looking for Emerson's and Krakauers (because I like the plain trichord unisons down to A#26), but am open to other brands (at least one of which, though, is NOT Steinway).
Does anyone know where I should go to look for a piano? I really can't afford too much - I've heard some techs say that old non-Steinway uprights aren't worth much if anything at all, so I suppose that could be what I'm looking for.

I so far have tried ebay, craigslist, San Diego Union Tribune, but I really would like to learn quite a bit more about a piano (what it sounds like, what condition it's in, what it looks like on the INSIDE (I'm looking for a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT, not a PIECE of FURNITURE!, and not just the logo on the plate of course - I mean I want to see the entire action / strings / etc), etc) before bugging a private seller about going to look at it. I've also looked at a few local stores, but other than the Yamaha/Steinway, Bosendorfer/Pearl River, and Baldwin/Bechstein dealers I know of, one in Miramar Rd didn't have much of a selection, although he did have a $5000-overpriced 1890s Chickering 79B upright that might have been nice if I wasn't looking for something else (it was WAY too mellow, and had wound strings too high up the scale for my taste in sound, like my current one does). Another store on El Cajon Blvd in San Diego has a lot more used old uprights, but they are either in much poorer condition than what I'm looking for, or he's asking way too much for them, and most likely I still haven't seen anything like what I'm looking for.
Does anyone know of any other places to look for a piano? I haven't had any luck at local stores, and want to find out more (sound, true condition, design, etc) about ebay / craigslist / classifieds listings before I contact a private seller.

This is what my piano sounds like now (actually as of a few months ago), except the low D sounds INFINITELY better on the recording than it does now (the string broke yesterday afternoon while I was playing), and the piano is quite far out of tune (and due to very poor tone quality even when it's in tune and not thinking I'd be able to get much out of my effort for putting new hammers in, and not having the patience to be without a piano during that time, I'm kinda discouraged to tune it or do pretty much anything with it, getting to the point of even PLAYING THE DANG BEAST!)

I'd like something that is:
1. considerably better than what my piano would be like if I did put new hammers in it and regulated it
2. will last me for quite a while (until I can afford a concert grand which will probably be at least 5 to 10 years as much as I'd like it to be less)
3. not too expensive. I can probably get by for several months on what I have now, but I would like to keep it under $500 or so, but might (depending on multiple factors) be able to go as high as $800 or $1k (but it would have to be a REALLY nice piano.

At this point I'm not looking for a grand, because I can't afford one that would be good enough, it would take up enough room (yes, I'm fairly sure I could fit it in the house somewhere, but my mom wouldn't apprecate it), but unfortunately my upright action (probably due to being out of regulation) is severely hampering my playing. As for an upright, I'm not looking for anything smaller than about 55 to 57", which pretty much excludes anything made after 1930. I have trouble finding anything at local stores (like I said earlier) and online sellers don't give enough info (I can understand not posting audio clips, but having a lot of pictures and a technician's evaluation would sure help), and the ones that might be ones I might look at are out of state. While I really don't want to travel outside of San Diego county, I may consider going to Orange, Los Angeles, Riverside (not east of Moreno Valley, though), or San Bernardino (not north/east of Yucaipa / Highland, though) counties if something comes up that looks promising.

Am I going to have to resign myself to the fact that I should just keep beating the felt (word substituted instead of something else that I won't print here) out of my untuned piano until I am too old to play?

My piano doesn't look NEARLY as bad as this one yet, but at the rate I've been playing it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like that in a year or two, or less.


grr... just hit preview and realized my post is longer than I'd like it to be... oh well...
{/end rant}

Given that you have a rather narrow set of criteria (under $500, or $1000 at the most for a "really nice" piano, 55" or bigger, etc.), I think you're either going to have to be extremely patient and wait for something to pop up locally in the classifieds, or be willing to travel some to look around. Given your proximity to L.A., it would seem a very wise investment of time to make the trip.

But I do wonder if you will be able to find what you are looking for. It sounds like you have very clear ideas about the kind of action and sound you prefer in a piano. But if $500 is your target budget, I'm just not convinced you're going to be able to find something to meet your criteria, unless you just happen to luck into a local private seller desperate to get rid of their piano.

Good luck! I hope you will be able to find something that suits your needs.

88,

You've been here, on and off, for 3 years or so with the same parameters for your replacment piano. Perhaps the parameters are so specific that you are wasting time looking for a piano that meets them.

Due to the high costs of shipping, you would need to find your piano locally.

My belief is that what you want doesn't basically exist in your price range. While there might be a couple out there, it would be VERY, VERY lucky to find one close enough to you to stay in your price range.

I was watching a TV show on TLC called "Property Ladder" last night. The premise is that you get to watch a [usually] inexperienced person buy a "fixer-upper" house for cheap, fix it up and TRY to sell it for a lot more than what they paid. So last night, this girl planned on fixing up this house in 4 weeks with a budget of $50,000--if you saw the house and heard what she wanted to do, you would've laughed your *** off just like I did. For $50,000 it just wasn't possible to do the things she WANTED to do. Consequently, the house took 4 months to get finished, she ended up spending over $100,000 and had to sell the house for a loss. You remind me of the girl in the sense that both of you don't seem to have a solid understand of the value of $XXX.XX amount of money and what it will get you.

It's not rocket science. Any consumer product will have a certain value, it's up to the consumer to research and understand said value[s] to approximate their budget accordingly. You can't walk into a Ferrari dealership and say "Hey Gents... I want something that looks like a Ferrari, drives like a Ferrari, and sounds like a Ferrari, but I only have $25,000." They'd promptly show you door. Sorry for the tangent, and I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I think you need to be a bit more realistic; and I hope you can extract my point out of all that.

Those are things I'd LIKE, but I am flexible. I just need to see/play the piano BEFORE I buy.

And, yes, I would be willing to travel to L.A. or the I.E. especially if I could see several pianos at once.

As for the price versus condition / quality:
I paid $0 for the piano I have now. (this is not counting the parts I have purchased since and put into that piano.)
I'm hoping to pay up to $700 to $1000 (and hoping to buy before June 2006, or preferably April or even mid December 2005)
My current piano, when I got it, had old, tubby strings, a worn-out badly-out-of-regulation (but still played except a few notes which wouldn't repeat properly, and had a zinging damper), was out-of-tune and 1/2 step flat.
As for the condition of the next piano, I'm hoping it's something similar than:
Condition of next piano (DIVIDED BY) condition of current piano when I acquired it
EQUALS
price of next piano (DIVIDED BY) price I paid for my current piano (not counting parts I have since replaced)

Ok, so you can't divide by 0. If you could, I could get a new Bosendorfer Imperial for free, and of course that would never happen to ANYONE. :p

Hmm... ok... I was just looking at Larry Fine's Piano Book (4th edition - the red one), and saw this on page 205 about the estimated value of older pianos:

What would be comparable private party prices for a piano that has been rebuilt 5, 10, or 25 years ago by someone who knows what he's doing, and has been well maintained since then?

Based on the list above, I'm probably looking basically for something that's one of the following:
1. average brand, better condition
2. better brand , average to better condition (especially Emerson & Krakauer, but open to others. Prefer as large of a piano as possible - 57 to 60+" high, 63 to 72" wide, but flexible.)
3. average brand, reconditioned (low end) (preferably a large one)

Are there any dealers in southern California that often have a lot of older uprights in stock? I'd like to go somewhere sometime and play several, and see what piano I can find.
Also, how much (or) would they come down in price if we took off the warranty (I'd need to have the piano inspected by an independent technician anyway), didn't include the bench, and I had someone else (besides them, and I have someone in mind) deliver it, or moved it myself (with help)?

One thing about the conditon, specifically tone in the low bass...
My piano has new bass strings, but badly worn (and grooved) hammers. Longest string is 56" speaking length (don't currently have data in front of me on front/backscale length, core/wrap diameter), piano width times height including cabinet sides, lid, bottom board, and standard casters is 62" by 56" respectively. To me, it sounds pretty good in the low bass for an old upright, about as good as some 6 to 7 foot grands I have played (with better quality 7-footers sounding better), especially the low D (actually, up till about 5pm Friday, when I broke the string while playing the piano). I'd especially like the overall tone and action on the next piano to be better than the one I have now.

I was briefly looking online today, and...

this piano (which is not geographically in an area where I'm looking) is WAY OVERPRICED for its condition. For that price, I'd expect it to be at LEAST in good regulation & tune, with a decent finish on it (although you can't tell that from the pics), and even if it wasn't just rebuilt, I'd expect it to have at least 40 years of normal use life or 20 years of heavy use life left. If it was in considerably better condition, more appropriately priced for its condition, and was in Southern California, I'd want to take a look at it.

I was looking at Craigslist, and saw a couple that look promising. I emailed the sellers asking more about them, so we'll see what happens from here I guess.

Let's break down your situation so we can analyze your requirements AND your budget. You're looking for:

• 1) An upright piano that is,

• 2) 57" to 60" high that has been, (which creates a sub-requirement):

• 2a) Made before the 1940's with a,

• 3) Budget of $700-$1000

Now, I looked at the clipping you posted from Larry Fine's book. You did a good thing and already posted a short list of what type (SEE: brand and condition) of piano you can get within your budget. But, looking at the Larry Fine clipping and then at your requirements/budget, you have to ask yourself a couple more questions:

• 1) How many upright pianos that are 57" or higher (made before the 1940s) exist in today's used market?

• 2) How many of those upright pianos that are 57" or higher (made before the 1940s) that DO exist in today's market reside in your locality?

• 3) Are you willing to be patient and wait until a piano fitting your description comes along for purchase? If so, then you need to be VERY patient. If not, you need to rearrange your requirements.

I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that there are NOT very many pianos that are 57" or higher (made before the 1940s) that meet your requirements. Some may exist, but few are going to be what you're looking for. What I'm trying to tell you is that yes, you very well may find the piano you're looking for, but you'll probably have to wait YEARS to find it. Are you comfortable waiting years? If you finally find your piano after, lets say two years, would it be worth the wait?

With that said, we can see a clear problem (which is most likely the "problem" you speak of in the thread title). It's not that you can't afford the piano you want to buy, your problem is that the piano you want does not really exist for you to buy. Your situation is tantamount to a car collector saying "I want to buy a 1963 split-window Corvette, but I'm having problems finding one." Well, first of all that's a very rare car. Secondly, any car enthusiast would know that it would take a VERY long time to locate one, and this isn't even factoring the quality or price involved--waiting is the first obstacle. I'd wait for a perfect '63 split-window coupe, or even a damaged shell for that matter, but I personally wouldn't WAIT for a 70 year old piano that's likely to be just an OK piano. People don't usually wait around for something mediocre.

My question to you is why do you so strongly require such a tall upright when it limits your choices so much?

Are you aware that if you shopped with $1,000-$1500 budget in today's used upright market, you could find a very decent piano--which is to say it WILL be better than your current piano, and it WOULD most likely be better than the tall, pre-1940s piano that you currently are seeking. That's all I have to say for now, but I'm going to do some searching and look for pianos within your budget, and I want you to tell me why you won't consider them.

One more thing, In your first post you mention that ten years from now you're going to be purchasing a concert grand. I looked in your profile and it says "wanted: Bosendorfer Imperial and[/b] Fazioli 308." So you're having problems finding a 70 year old piano for $1000, but 10 years from now you're looking to buy two (you said and[/b] not or) $150,000+ 9ft pianos?

-Rich-

I'd like something that big, that old (but preferably well taken care of), for that price, but, if a somewhat smaller, newer one (for the same price) that is AT LEAST as good as my current piano now is, and has the potential for being better (especially having a bigger sound) than my current one would be even if it was completely rebuilt with a new soundboard, bridges, hammers, etc (I already restrung it), I'd consider it, even if it was smaller than my current one. Due to the laws of physics, though, I don't think a piano that's smaller than my current one COULD have the potential for being better if it was rebuilt than my current one would be if it was rebuilt.

Actually, as of right this second (1:07:25am PDT, 10-18-2005), I CANNOT afford the piano I want to buy. I am willing to wait a while, though.

Yes, I'd at least like something that's better than my current one. Keeping in mind laws of physics (as I understand, a bigger piano (with maybe a few exceptions) if properly completely rebuilt can sound better than a smaller piano), I'd prefer one that potentially could be better when rebuilt than mine would be if totally rebuilt.

Did I actually LITERALLY say I was going to purchase a concert grand in 10 years? I didn't quite mean it literally, it's just my ultimate goal to preferably own a good one sometime in the not-too-far-off future, preferably before my kids get into their teens or even pre-teens. (as of now, I am single with 0 children.) And, it would be my piano as much as theirs, and of course I'd let my friends play it, too. I can't stand it when someone has a piano of ANYTHING even REMOTELY resembling quality, and won't let anyone even so much as TOUCH it (I suppose an exception could be made for old worn-out spinets, birdcage uprights, and square grands, that are in AT BEST this condition .)

As I've said up above (repeated here incase it got lost in the sea of splitted quotations), I'm willing to take a newer, smaller (preferably not less than 52-54" though) piano, IF it's better as-is than my piano is now, AND could be better than my current piano would be if TOTALLY rebuilt (assuming I was to replace the pinblock and soundboard on my current piano, but leave in whatever comes with the "next" piano).

Heh, I assumed you meant they were your "dream" pianos, and it never hurts to shoot for the stars... no offense meant by the comments though. It's a shame you're not in Jersey, ever since I got my digital piano, my parents have been champing at the bit to give away our Wurlitzer upright. But I was searching on ebay, it looks like you just might have to save a little more money, because "decent" uprights don't even start showing up until about $2,000. This Young Chang piano is pretty nice. I myself would save up for a used Yamaha U1 but I don't think I'd ever own a grand so it would be a piano I'd keep for a LONG time. If all you're worried about right now is [big] sound and good build quality, be patient and save up a little more cash. Good luck in your search.