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#1123393 - 01/16/07 11:16 AM Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
This is a brand new study group for, possibly the most emotional and beautiful, nocturne Chopin wrote. But it's a "biggie" as far as technical ability goes.

The following (gosh, I hope he doesn't mind) is our own LisztAddict's version of this magnificient nocturne, and I must say he plays it WONDERFULLY.

Don't be deceived by the first part, as it seems relatively easy.

Nocture 48.1 by LisztAddict

The first two pages aren't too very difficult, albeit you will need to stretch those fingers in your left hand.

If you are interested in joining this group, just log on.

Warning: For most of us, this will be a major project, so be forewarned. ;\)

If you need the sheet music, let me know.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123394 - 01/16/07 12:25 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2530
Loc: Maine
I'm in. I've started the first two pages. I see this as a major long term project for me. The second half is tres difficult.
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1123395 - 01/16/07 12:41 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
The octave part is the most difficult, but it's all technique. The last part where the main theme comes back is not as hard as the octave part, but you have to bring out the melody.

I spent only about 5 years to learn this particular piece as you hear I play. So if you don't quite get there after a year or 2, don't give up.

If you have any question for me, ask away. \:\)

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#1123396 - 01/16/07 02:41 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
AnotherSchmoe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 499
Loc: Arkansas
LisztAddict, that was BREATHTAKING!
_________________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/AnotherSchmoe

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#1123397 - 01/16/07 03:19 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Damz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Montreal, Canada
This is my favorite nocturne !!

I think I should wait until I buy a new piano before attempting this though, I feel like my 40" 1960 Mason & Risch wouldn't be worthy of having this beautiful piece played on it ;\)

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#1123398 - 01/16/07 03:32 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Mike White Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 518
Loc: 90 miles West of New Orleans
 Quote:
Warning: For most of us, this will be a major project, so be forewarned. ;\)
That's an understatement for sure!
Yes, it was beautifully played.
Mike
_________________________
My Recordings. Please feel free to comment or to ask a question.

Yamaha G3 & P-80 Digital

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#1123399 - 01/16/07 03:33 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Damz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Just finished listening to LisztAddict'S recording a second time in a row and I can't find a better word than AnotherSchmoe : BREATHTAKING !

You play it really fast, I have a Naxos recording of it which lasts one full minute longer, but yours is really.. woah.. full of energy, I really felt the torment of the composer in your playing.

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#1123400 - 01/16/07 03:54 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Nonna Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/06/06
Posts: 39
Wow!! That was great LisztAddict! Just beautiful!! You are certainly a talented pianist.
Hope everyone has fun learning this and I look forward to hearing the recordings.
_________________________
"If you are going through heck, keep going." Winston Churchill

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#1123401 - 01/16/07 04:29 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Thank you for all the comments on my recording.

Most pianists play this piece from around 5:30 to 6:30. But I think the overall time is not as important as how you take the tempo in each section. Tempo for the first 2 pages is Lento so be sure you don't rush through this part. It's very slow here so hitting the correct notes/keys is no problem. The really hard part here is phrasing. No matter how slow you play, you (and the listeners) must be able to hear where the music is going. I'll get into details when you have all the notes in your fingers. \:\)

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#1123402 - 01/16/07 05:46 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
LA...It took you 5 years!! Yikes, but good to know because then we can expect to spend at least that much time learning it. I personally think it's well worth the effort.

Here is what Huneker has to say about this piece:
The Nocturne in C minor, op. 48, has its despairing moments, but it is the broadest, most imposing andmost dramatic of teh series; its middle movement is a departure from the form. Biggest in conception, it is a miniature music-drama. Adequately to interpret it demands the grand manner. The doppio movimentio is dramatically exciting....along with the C sharp nocture, both works display the heroic quality, both are free from mawkishness, and are Chopin in the mode masculine.

Lennox Berkeley says: The nocturne in C minor, Op 48, 1 stands out as a word of major significance, surpassing in breath and grandeur all its predecessors.

Ashkenazy plays the first two pages LARGO not Lento. So slowly that I thought something was wrong with my stereo at first. Even Rubinstein plays it faster. And most of the time Ashkenazy plays Chopin too quickly. So I was suprised.

Anyhow, this will be a challenge. And we're happy to have LA here to help and, of course, Hershey.

I am using the Schirmer edition (for now) edited, revised and fingered by Joseffy. I don't think (at least I hope not) that Joseffy changed anything of significance.

Ready, set, go and go and go and go and go...well, you get the idea.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123403 - 01/16/07 08:06 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
joemoshi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 225
Loc: Canada
LA. This is a beautiful piece and played with a lot of emotion. It is inspiring. If the time timeline is 5 years then I am interested. Where can I find the score?
_________________________
Be happy while there is still time.

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#1123404 - 01/16/07 08:44 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Hi Joemoshi:

Here is a site that lets you download (for free) two compositions (by Chopin) a day.
Free Chopin Sheet Music

Glad you are with us. Hope we are all still together 5 years from now.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123405 - 01/16/07 10:11 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
joemoshi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 225
Loc: Canada
Thank you Kathleen. At least the beginning is Lento. Should be interesting.
_________________________
Be happy while there is still time.

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#1123406 - 01/17/07 09:50 AM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Actually, Joemoshi, as I think I mentioned previously. You can "get by" with playing it Largo, as Ashkenazy does. But it is sssssooooooo ssssslllllooooowwwwww that it's almost imposible to play at that tempo.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123407 - 01/17/07 04:32 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Sarah M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 293
Loc: California
I just listened to your recording LisztA. It's very nice, very professional!

You guys don't take it easy do you? You all went from a very difficult nocturne to the most difficult one! I would consider trying it but I've already bitten off more than I can chew with my current pieces. I might join in late but it all depends.

Anyway, gotta get back to work. \:\(

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#1123408 - 01/17/07 08:52 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2530
Loc: Maine
The first section could almost stand alone as a prelude. But then...Chopin always has to go and make it DIFFICULT! \:D
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1123409 - 01/17/07 09:43 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
joemoshi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 225
Loc: Canada
I have started. The first 8 measures were not too difficult. From here on it is going to be more and more difficult. There is still 5 years to go so I am optimistic.
_________________________
Be happy while there is still time.

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#1123410 - 01/18/07 09:20 AM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Whenever you get the chance to join us, Sarah, you will be most welcomed.

Yeah, Peyton, why does Chopin do that? But let's face it, it's the difficult part that has the allure for us. There's no one who can do "drama" as Chopin can.

Joe: You're making good progress, and I hope you keep your optimstic attitude and spread it out a little for the rest of us. Because I KNOW we are going to need it.

I'm not certan about it, but it seemed to happen right after I started playing the first page. My pinkie on the LH developed a mind of its own. It refuses to join the rest of my hand. I can pull it to line up with the other fingers. When I hold it in place and then let go, it just pops out of place and stays about 2 inches from the rest of the hand. Strange, but doesn't hurt. But I've discovered it hasn't improved my span of my reach any. What I think it has done is decrease the strength of my 4th and 5th finger. Oh well, Hanon everyday!!

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123411 - 01/19/07 12:12 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
I just listened to Ashkenazy recording of this piece.

Just for the fun of it, not that it really matters any in the interpretation of the piece, I divide the piece into 4 sections: the opening, the hymn, the octave, and the triplet final section. And here are his timing vs. mine:

Section 1: Ashkenazy played 2:24, I played 2:02
Section 2: 1:17 vs 1:22
Section 3: 0:48 vs 0:45
Section 4: 1:49 vs 1:47

With the Nocturne No 20 in C# minor, he played 3:56, I played 3:58.
(Pat self on the back) \:D

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#1123412 - 01/19/07 01:59 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
LA: You most certainly deserve a pat on the back with enough force to send you sailing to Chicago in April to hear Kissin. \:D

Don't you think he plays the first section extremely slow? Not that I don't like it, I do. It takes time to get your hands/finger around those chords. But I was surprised at his tempo here, for he normally everything else (Chopin) a tad too fast for my taste.

You did a spectacular job even if it did take you 5 years. That time was extremely well spent. And you deserve to be very proud of yourself (we're proud of you, also). \:\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123413 - 01/20/07 12:42 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
It requires greater amount of control the slower you play this section. I prefer to play a tiny bit slower but I played safe. \:D I made the recording in a piano store; it was one take.

Yes, I think Ashkenazy played it a tad too slow, but that proves he is the master of the instrument as you can hear his tones and phrasing are well defined.

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#1123414 - 01/20/07 04:12 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I am in such a quandry right now. I HAVE to finish the 55.1, just the last page to go, but WOW...it's a doozie.

But I am so tempted to start again on the 48.1. I had two pages down fairly well a few weeks ago, but then other pieces were calling for my attention. So, I am afraid I'll have to start from the beginning.

What I was thinking, and I know this is a giant pipe dream on my part. Wouldn't it be great if those of us who are learning this piece could have it a performance level by the 200th birthday of Chopin in 2010!! Just 3 years away. I think once I finish up with my other pieces, I am going to devote all my time to this nocturne. Every couple of days, I'll give some time to the others just to maintain, but the 48.1 is going to get my FULL attention.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123415 - 01/22/07 12:35 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
OT: Kissin in Chicago
http://www.cso.org/main.taf?erube_fh=csocom&csocom.submit.perfDetail=1&csocom.eventID=8166
You can call this number for more info (312)294-3000

From what I heard in the Kissin fan club, he is going to stay after the concert and sign his CD to the last person. What a nice guy huh?

Geeez, I am so tempted to fly to Chicago. \:D

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#1123416 - 01/22/07 05:24 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Wow, LA, that would be great about your flying into Chicago.

I did look up the seats are available and the price. The good ones seem to be gone, but there are still some left.

Now I have to think how I am going to get to Chicago. Drive part of the way to the train, take the train, then a taxi to the concert hall. Or drive all the way into Chicago and deal with the traffic and the cost of parking.

Thank you for the info. I'm still mulling it over, but I need to make up my mind soon before all the tickets are gone. If you decide to fly in, let me know. I can pick you up at the airport, and I have an extra bedroom, if you care to stay over. Then, we'll "do lunch."

Regards,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123417 - 01/22/07 05:48 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
I just heard that most people already got their tickets back in August 2006 for this concert. Last time Kissin played in Atlanta a few years ago, the tickets went on sale several months in advance, and they were sold out that afternoon. Can you believe that?

I really want to go but at the moment, I am not sure if I will be able to or not. Then by the time I know, there may be won't be any ticket left. \:\(

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#1123418 - 01/23/07 09:30 AM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2530
Loc: Maine
I'm off on a trip for the next week so away from the piano but I thought I would add some 2cents to the nocturne conversation.

So far my favorite passages in 48.1 are 14-16 and that high C and following passage in 21-23. I could just play 14-16 all day long and 21-24 are such a perfect culmination of the first section. \:\) I don't think he could have made this any more perfect.
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1123419 - 01/23/07 10:16 AM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I agree Peyton. This nocturne doesn't sound as if it were composed by a mortal. As I said before, it gives me goosebumps!!

Luckily, in the book: "Chopin...as seen by his Students," there is a quote from one of his students regarding how Chopin, himself, wanted this nocturne to be played.

As soon as I find the book, I'll post his exact words.

Have a good trip Peyton.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123420 - 01/23/07 02:07 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Pianolina Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 204
I took a preliminary look at this nocturne and wow, it's just gorgeous. Although I'm very tempted to start learning it, I'm not sure if I should. I have a couple of practice constraints now, and it doesn't look like I can handle any major undertakings for the time being. At the same time, I'm tempted to take it slowly and just work it out phrase by phrase whenever I can. Do you think I would get anywhere doing this, or should I just wait until I can devote more practice time to it?

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#1123421 - 01/23/07 06:06 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Sure, Pianolina...that's what I did for the first two pages. They are relatively easy to play, abeit, they do stretch your fingers, which is good. Learn as you go along. And I make certain that I play the two page every other day or so, so I don't forget them.

You can always come back to it when you have the time. My target date is April of 2010, which would be Chopin's 200th birthday). As you can tell, I KNOW this will be a lllooooonnnnnggggg project for me. And a few others have also mentioned that they thought it would take them some time to complete.

LA is available for help any time we need it.

Good luck,
Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1123422 - 01/23/07 06:48 PM Re: Study Group for Chopin's Nocturne 48.1
Pianolina Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 204
Okay Kathleen, I'm encouraged now that you said you're going to take it slowly too \:\) . I just gave the first page a read-though and I see what you mean about the stretches... And I can see that even more are coming up!! But I made a interesting discovery - I don't know when this happened, but I can reach a 10th with my left hand. I can play octaves with 2 and 5 as well, although not nested inside the 10th (not yet anyway). The range in my right hand is much more limited but I'm working on it (with a physiotherapist, not some Schumann-esque device, don't worry). You can tell I don't have dainty feminine little hands. \:D

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