SEARCH
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories

PianoSupplies.com (a division of Piano World) Piano & music accessories, music theme decoratons, tuning & repair tools, moving equipment, party goods,music gift items, ... more
Free shipping on Jansen Artist Benches.
(ad) irocku - Rock Piano Lessons
irocku rock piano lessons
ad (Pianoteq)
Create your own piano with Pianoteq!
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad 125) Sweetwater
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
Who's Online
198 registered (A441, alekkh, 36251, Andromaque, 4evr88, akita), 1337 Guests and 29 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Ad (Pearl River)
Pearl River Pianos
Forum Stats
64900 Members
40 Forums
132574 Topics
1894831 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)
Forums by Piano World

www.pianoworld.com
Advertise on Piano World
Page 7 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Topic Options
#1846577 - 02/17/12 05:08 AM Re: G Major has Fa-Sharp [Re: Gary D.]
Exalted Wombat Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 875
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
It is very easy to mistake names for what the names represent, and systems (ways of getting to goals) with the accomplishment of goals.


Ah, the semiotics of music pedagogy. Having just waded through a lot of material on another application of that science, I can confidently predict that it can be expressed in a few clear statements, or at extreme rambling length. May we hope for the former? :-)

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#1846772 - 02/17/12 01:08 PM Re: G Major has Fa-Sharp [Re: Gary D.]
LoPresti Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 447
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Why aren't more people composing or arranging? Why do we not hear more new music of obvious quality? Or is there more great new music out there, right now, that we have simply not gotten to hear yet, that does not get hyped enough? Has the ever decreasing attention span made it impossible for people to appreaciate anything longer than 10 minutes, or three?


Wow, Gary!

I am certain you could receive at least as many insightful answers to this inquiry as there are frustrated composers and arrangers. I shall use up more than my single vote, and cite two: [1] Lack of Audience, and [2] Lack of Performance Opportunities; and they are enter-twined in sort of a the-chicken-or-the-egg relationship.

Many years ago, when I still believed I had something meaningful to say, I wanted to compose for orchestra. Inside of me I heard big, complex sounds, that needed to come out. I shall not bore anyone with the tedious details. Had I been a professor at a conservatory, like Adler or Schnittke, or Schuman or Persichetti, or Husa, I would have both my chance of an acceptable performance, and a (possibly receptive?) audience. Lacking both, the unfinished manuscript collects dust. With VERY few exceptions, symphony orchestras perform what will fill the seats in the concert hall, OR sell a few CDs, and that is B, B, and B, with an occasional Mahler or (dare I mention?) Bartok thrown in.

Ah - I’ll compromise, and write for a smaller group - at the other extreme - a string quartet. I wrote a couple of movements, personally paid the principal chairs from the local symphony to rehearse and perform, personally paid for the recording session. Not big, complex sounds, yet it was a pretty nice piece. But like any one of the Bartok quartets, quite inaccessible to the casual listener. So here the incomplete manuscript, and its cassette tape, collects dust. When was the last time that anyone on this Forum listened to a modern string quartet (other than Kronos)?

Finally a “break”! The director of a regional band contacts me, and together we apply for, and I am awarded, a commission from the New York Council of the Arts, for a piece for band. (Big sound, maybe not quite as complex.) I write it, AND copy all the parts, ultimately making $ 0.0257 per hour, but that is beside the point. Changing meters, and shifting tonal centers, required a lot of time at rehearsals. It was premiered at a summer concert. I think that everyone, including the players, was hoping for a nice march! Throw that manuscript on the pile.

I could go on. We are at a tough juncture with skilled composers (I do not presume to include myself in this group), and their audiences. This applies to jazz as well as “serious” genre. CHICKEN: By definition, composers (other than for film) have little desire to write what has already been written. The creative urge is to break new musical ground, even if it is simply evolutionary. EGG: More than ever, the audience is reluctant to “do any work” toward understanding more complex sounds or structures. As you hint toward, most audiences want it to be short, and to not engage their ears or their emotions at a deep level. Even further, the performing musicians themselves, while technically masterful, seem reluctant to invest themselves in fully projecting “new music”. And finally, perhaps the conductor is unsure of his footing, but would never admit it!

Forgive the personal references - I am certain I rambled too.
Ed

Top
#1846812 - 02/17/12 02:09 PM Re: G Major has Fa-Sharp [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Canada
When I made my first stab at music history not long ago, I went through a book that gave an interesting overview. You get the Renaissance Man era, where every person of nobility, these also being patrons of the arts, had to be well versed in those arts - amateurs in the good sense of the word. Then nobility and church lost their power and role, and music had to go for public consumption. At that point (so said the author) things had to be made popular, and at least some composers and musicians ended up living in two worlds. There was the consumable music they had to produce in order to make a living, and what they did in private to satisfy the creativity and the abilities that they had at an expert level to do more.

It has gotten worse and more extreme. Everything everywhere is popularized, dummied down. As we, the public, get exposed to less and less, our awareness of what exists and what can be also goes down. For some it creates a restlessness and hunger, like with a steady diet of candy floss. It is not just in terms of entertainment. Try to get an education, try to study anything anywhere, and it has been pragmatized, simplified, "made interesting" in a commercial definition of "interesting".

So how can we end up hearing or playing this kind of music? How can those who want what composer, performers, or teachers have to offer get together with those offering it, and circumvent this homogenization that seems to be happening everywhere?


Edited by keystring (02/17/12 06:05 PM)
Edit Reason: grammar

Top
#1846814 - 02/17/12 02:13 PM Re: G Major has Fa-Sharp [Re: ezpiano.org]
TimR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1810
Loc: Virginia, USA
I dunno. Rossini and Wagner made a pretty good living writing for Warner Bros, but I guess you could argue much of that stuff is less than complex.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1846944 - 02/17/12 05:56 PM Re: G Major has Fa-Sharp [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Gary D. Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3471
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
It is very easy to mistake names for what the names represent, and systems (ways of getting to goals) with the accomplishment of goals.


Ah, the semiotics of music pedagogy. Having just waded through a lot of material on another application of that science, I can confidently predict that it can be expressed in a few clear statements, or at extreme rambling length. May we hope for the former? :-)

When I saw "semiotics", the first thing that flashed in my mind was "semi-idiotic". laugh

We may hope for the former, but we are doomed to be very disappointed. wink
_________________________
Piano Teacher

Top
Page 7 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7



Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
JOIN Us on Our New Piano Tour of Europe!
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
Piano Books
-------------------
panic
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
(ad) GROTRIAN
GROTRIAN Pianos
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Recent Posts
Ragtime and correct rhythm
by Exalted Wombat
05/28/12 05:36 PM
How otd is Kawai MR210?
by The Monkeys
05/28/12 05:36 PM
Kawai MP6 v. Roland FP-7F v. Casio AP-620
by Kawai James
05/28/12 05:34 PM
Creaky Sustain Pedal
by Jerry Groot RPT
05/28/12 05:33 PM
This week: Chicago Amateur Piano Competition, Keys to City
by Mark_C
05/28/12 05:31 PM
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Virtual Piano Chords



 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |
 
PianoSupplies.com


Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| Del.icio.us |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2012 Piano World all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission